Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: MWGA on June 12, 2024, 01:03:44 PM

Title: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MWGA on June 12, 2024, 01:03:44 PM: Well didn't draw my quality tag again with 21 points and even tried for a unit that gave out 10 tags this year lol.. I can't wait to hear from the people who drew with 8 points 🤣.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: jae on June 12, 2024, 01:35:35 PM: Lol, same 22 points but it’s normal here.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MWGA on June 12, 2024, 01:41:19 PM: Sorry to hear that. I put in for multiple states and this state never seems to amaze me. I hate a lottery system.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: yogru on June 12, 2024, 01:51:27 PM: 25 points checking in (or I guess 26 now). Also applied for 10 tag hunt. But it's WA, sooo...
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MWGA on June 12, 2024, 02:33:47 PM: Damn, sorry !! Its frustrating for sure.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: elkchaser54 on June 12, 2024, 02:34:50 PM: Not Selected
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: BA Mongor on June 12, 2024, 02:35:35 PM: This is the WORST state to draw a "Quality" tag! And it's not even close. 23, 26, 22, 19 points for Moose, Quality Deer, Bull Elk & Goat! NADA.
I did the same thing, and put in for a lesser tag and still nothing
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MADMAX on June 12, 2024, 02:38:02 PM: Quote from: BA Mongor on June 12, 2024, 02:35:35 PM
This is the WORST state to draw a "Quality" tag! And it's not even close. 23, 26, 22, 19 points for Moose, Quality Deer, Bull Elk & Goat! NADA.
I did the same thing, and put in for a lesser tag and still nothing

Nada here as well

:yeah:
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: emac on June 12, 2024, 02:47:03 PM: People need to stop looking at points. They don't matter. It is truly a lottery. On most hunts the difference between having 10 points and 25 point is like. 05% chance better odds with 25 points. It is said over and over again on here points don't mean *censored*!!!!

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: guardian on June 12, 2024, 02:56:59 PM: FK this state!!!!! Im done they can stick their point system up their poop hole. Massive points here to see folks draw on 2 and 3 points!! Done!!
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: BA Mongor on June 12, 2024, 03:12:02 PM: Emac, we get it and just we could always just say years, but it won't make our disappointment any less.
It's just a let down and it's fast approaching almost 3-decades of nothing.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: emac on June 12, 2024, 03:44:35 PM: I understand what you are saying and venting. But also on the other hand a lot of people think they should draw with more points when that is not the case and they don't understand how the system works. I don't even know how many points I have any more. I quit looking. I put in for everything that is possible and the last time I saw selected was 2015 I can't even draw a doe tag

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Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MWGA on June 12, 2024, 04:39:34 PM: The point of this post is, it's frustrating for many of us hunters who have invested many years trying to draw a tag. A lottery system is a joke and it needs to go to a preference point setup. Im done in this damn state once I draw anyway, so it makes It that much tougher.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: TommyGun496 on June 12, 2024, 04:46:59 PM: Same here. Over the last few years I have been putting for the less desirable quality tags and still no luck?!?! I haven’t drawn anything (cow tags included) since 2012. Oh well, there is always next year🫣
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: emac on June 12, 2024, 04:51:04 PM: I hate to say with a preference point system at this point would not work. There are so many people with so many points that low point holders might as well bowout. Especially for OIL tags. There are probably hundreds of people with max points in the OIL categories. So people with let's just say 20 points or less will never draw in their lifetime if it was a preference point system so why would they even apply. Wdfw would loose a *censored* ton of revenue, people would stop hunting and that would be it. I hate the system, like I said I haven't been drawn since 15, but I at least have hope every year. I done expect to get drawn like a lot of people do. I hope to get drawn, which clearly the wdfw hates me, but I don't dwell on it. At least you can still have a OTCT. Before you know it we will be like utah we're it is draw only or with our commission we won't be hunting. So just enjoy that you can still hunt every year and have a chance at drawing something.

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Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: BA Mongor on June 12, 2024, 04:53:23 PM: The only item I haven't ever changed is my #1 choice for Quality Deer: Desert B Modern - I dream of that hunt!
I changed this year and put in a 2nd choice: Chewuch Modern.

Oh well, and whoever did draw something...congratulations.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 05:19:12 PM: The real joke isn’t not getting drawn. The real joke, is when you do actually draw the tag of your dreams that took you eons to draw and you realize the hunting has went to crap and you just waited/wasted 15 to 30 years for nothing. You then will come to the conclusion that you could have went on a general hunt in Wyoming or Montana and had a better experience.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on June 12, 2024, 07:14:28 PM: Quote from: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 05:19:12 PM
The real joke isn’t not getting drawn. The real joke, is when you do actually draw the tag of your dreams that took you eons to draw and you realize the hunting has went to crap and you just waited/wasted 15 to 30 years for nothing. You then will come to the conclusion that you could have went on a general hunt in Wyoming or Montana and had a better experience.

Yep, but I drew my QT deer.🤣
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 07:43:36 PM: Quote from: Boss .300 winmag on June 12, 2024, 07:14:28 PM
Quote from: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 05:19:12 PM
The real joke isn’t not getting drawn. The real joke, is when you do actually draw the tag of your dreams that took you eons to draw and you realize the hunting has went to crap and you just waited/wasted 15 to 30 years for nothing. You then will come to the conclusion that you could have went on a general hunt in Wyoming or Montana and had a better experience.

Yep, but I drew my QT deer.🤣.
I hope it has a teaspoon full of quality left in it. All those units aren’t the same today as they were when you started buying points all those years ago.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: idahohuntr on June 12, 2024, 08:22:46 PM: Quote from: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 05:19:12 PM
The real joke isn’t not getting drawn. The real joke, is when you do actually draw the tag of your dreams that took you eons to draw and you realize the hunting has went to crap and you just waited/wasted 15 to 30 years for nothing. You then will come to the conclusion that you could have went on a general hunt in Wyoming or Montana and had a better experience.
To be fair - a) applying/drawing a WA tag isn't mutually exclusive to hunting other states b) hunting (with few exceptions) has gone to crap in most states/areas relative to 15-30 years ago and c) there are still hunts/tags in WA where trophy quality or awesome experiences rank very high...even if less than many years ago.

That said - I drew nothing -glad I have MT and ID tags to fall back on.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: huntnnw on June 12, 2024, 09:48:16 PM: problem is guys have all these points and putting in for super hard to draw tags then think I have all these points I will put in for easier unit to draw. You gotta apply every year for the same unit if you wanna draw a easier unit.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Alan K on June 13, 2024, 04:44:50 AM: Quote from: dvolmer on June 12, 2024, 05:19:12 PM
The real joke isn’t not getting drawn. The real joke, is when you do actually draw the tag of your dreams that took you eons to draw and you realize the hunting has went to crap and you just waited/wasted 15 to 30 years for nothing. You then will come to the conclusion that you could have went on a general hunt in Wyoming or Montana and had a better experience.

:yeah:
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2024, 06:22:05 AM: Ever since I had 13 points I thought I was gonna draw for bull elk, not a super tag by any means. One of the years when I had 20 points I was a witness and was the first loser, one away. With 28 points last year, same bull catagory muzzy, I was around 1,400+/- away from drawing a tag. This year, went east side archery quality, nothing. People get tired of me complaining, I hear and see it on here, I get it, listening to people complain gets old. But man this system sucks. I like Wyomings, or No points like Idaho. If we had a game commission that gave a crap, and a mind set for predator control, we’d have the best elk hunting in the country, we’d have 150 tags in the little Natches like before and not 8. Nothing will increase odds enough to give us a high point holders a big enough advantage. Maybe cubing points after 20-25, that would give us waaay more chances to draw a low number. Without changing the mind set of the commisioners or trying a cubed system, it will only get worse. Prob couldn’t even draw a crappy toutle tag in a few years. But hey, I’ll have 30 points next year, it’s gonna happen for sure……….🤮🤮🤮
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: outdooraddict on June 13, 2024, 06:26:42 AM: I hate the category situation, it makes it that much harder to draw, because the competition to draw is exponentially increased. when you had to choose 4 categories for deer and 4 categories for elk, it was a different game you couldn't put in for multiple antler and multiple antlerless tags. i think the categories ruined the draw system in this state. go back to 4 choices for each animal and that's your selection. less names in the hat that way and people would be drawing tags, now you can draw multiple tags for the same species. I know though, the amount of money they made by doing it this way is huge, and the amount of money they would lose is huge. IMO, there is no logical wildlife management or reason to do a category system.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2024, 06:31:45 AM: Agree, but we all know, they’ll never make that change due to the loss of revenue. Even though, it would increase odds in a big way for a lot of units.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Romulus on June 13, 2024, 07:02:28 AM: Guys, you think you dont like the system but the fact is you dont like not drawing.........doesnt matter what system you use when you have this many applicants and this few tags.........if any of you has ever drawn a decent tag you already beat the odds and you should never draw a tag again based on the numbers. I put in every year for 7 family members and most years all I see is not selected across the board but there are no easy draws put in for. My dad has 34 points for quality elk and 20 plus points in the other categories but the odds say he will never sniff a tag. If there were no points there would still be people who put in the first year and drew something and others who put in their whole life and got nothing. The only way odds could get better would be to increase the cost to apply significantly but many would bitch about that. My family and friends group has put in for the past 40-50 years and over time we have been rewarded with several great tags and many, many years of blanks for all. None of you deserve a tag, nor do I, but if you keep putting in year after year many of you will draw something, and many more may not. Its the yearly frustration of the guy with 22 points who is bitching about the kid with 7 points who drew that makes me write something. You had a better chance to draw than he did....but it was much more likely that one of those many people who had 7,8,9,10 points drew the tag than you because there were 60 of them or 160 of them. Its disappointing, but it is fair.

Good luck next year!!
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Rainier10 on June 13, 2024, 08:11:58 AM: Quote from: Romulus on June 13, 2024, 07:02:28 AM
Guys, you think you dont like the system but the fact is you dont like not drawing.........doesnt matter what system you use when you have this many applicants and this few tags.........if any of you has ever drawn a decent tag you already beat the odds and you should never draw a tag again based on the numbers. I put in every year for 7 family members and most years all I see is not selected across the board but there are no easy draws put in for. My dad has 34 points for quality elk and 20 plus points in the other categories but the odds say he will never sniff a tag. If there were no points there would still be people who put in the first year and drew something and others who put in their whole life and got nothing. The only way odds could get better would be to increase the cost to apply significantly but many would bitch about that. My family and friends group has put in for the past 40-50 years and over time we have been rewarded with several great tags and many, many years of blanks for all. None of you deserve a tag, nor do I, but if you keep putting in year after year many of you will draw something, and many more may not. Its the yearly frustration of the guy with 22 points who is bitching about the kid with 7 points who drew that makes me write something. You had a better chance to draw than he did....but it was much more likely that one of those many people who had 7,8,9,10 points drew the tag than you because there were 60 of them or 160 of them. Its disappointing, but it is fair.

Good luck next year!!
:yeah:
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: MeepDog on June 13, 2024, 08:18:44 AM: If you have 34 points and put in for a crappy tag, you're probably gonna draw it.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Mtnwalker on June 13, 2024, 08:19:58 AM: Quote from: Romulus on June 13, 2024, 07:02:28 AM
Guys, you think you dont like the system but the fact is you dont like not drawing.........doesnt matter what system you use when you have this many applicants and this few tags.........if any of you has ever drawn a decent tag you already beat the odds and you should never draw a tag again based on the numbers. I put in every year for 7 family members and most years all I see is not selected across the board but there are no easy draws put in for. My dad has 34 points for quality elk and 20 plus points in the other categories but the odds say he will never sniff a tag. If there were no points there would still be people who put in the first year and drew something and others who put in their whole life and got nothing. The only way odds could get better would be to increase the cost to apply significantly but many would bitch about that. My family and friends group has put in for the past 40-50 years and over time we have been rewarded with several great tags and many, many years of blanks for all. None of you deserve a tag, nor do I, but if you keep putting in year after year many of you will draw something, and many more may not. Its the yearly frustration of the guy with 22 points who is bitching about the kid with 7 points who drew that makes me write something. You had a better chance to draw than he did....but it was much more likely that one of those many people who had 7,8,9,10 points drew the tag than you because there were 60 of them or 160 of them. Its disappointing, but it is fair.

Good luck next year!!

:yeah: :yeah:
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on June 13, 2024, 08:29:21 AM: :yeah:

No game commission in the west is managing game anymore for hunter benefit. Lottery systems are checkers, preference systems are chess.

I do think the wdfw could streamline some of this easily enough by eliminating categories and simply raising the permit app fee to cover it.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: dilleytech on June 13, 2024, 08:33:44 AM: I have drawn a tag 3 years in a row. The most points I have had was 7 for a quality deer tag. But ya this state sucks. Try putting in for easier to draw tags and have some fun before you die.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: starkeybomb on June 13, 2024, 09:46:56 AM: Quote from: blackveltbowhunter on June 13, 2024, 08:29:21 AM
:yeah:

No game commission in the west is managing game anymore for hunter benefit. Lottery systems are checkers, preference systems are chess.

I do think the wdfw could streamline some of this easily enough by eliminating categories and simply raising the permit app fee to cover it.

This past weekend we camped at the Conconully State Park and went on a hike in the NF. What did we mostly see? Moose poop. Is there tags sold there? Nope! Same for the Blues, I find much more often the elk sign is moose. But no tag. What drives me nuts is how limited opportunity is in WA. I get there are a few species that we need to guard, sadly that includes elk in the Blues. But other things like moose and even second deer tags are much too hard to draw from what I can tell. The opportunity to draw is frustrating, not drawing is what it is to me. In 2021, 121,155 applications for a moose tag. That year they distributed 135 tags... WFWD says there are approximately 5,000 in the state and does address a population outside of the Selkirks. A moose population study and offer at least a single tag in these non-Selkirk regions is important.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: trophyhunt on June 13, 2024, 10:41:03 AM: Ahh, the “deserve” word, it gets peoples panties in a bunch. Simple question, why does WY give 75% of their tags to the highest point holders? Just because? Or do they feel the guys waiting the longest “deserve” a much better chance? It’s not a “right” it’s simple if you think about it. A guy standing in line for 3 hours at a popular ride, does he deserve to get on the ride before some guy who woke up late and just walks past everyone and gets on in 5 minutes? It’s not a bad word, deserve is what a lot of people feel who have been waiting decades, compared to some lucky guy who drew w decades less points. I don’t look down on the guys w 25+ points who feel they’ve put in their time and should draw, they should. I get the odds suck big time, but even IF I zero out someday, I’ll always feel the guys/gals waiting decades “deserve” a damn tag. Appreciate your thoughts on my example of Wyoming. Flame on
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 13, 2024, 10:52:12 AM: Deserve is that just a different term for "Entitled"?
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Snakeriver on June 13, 2024, 10:52:56 AM: All the point system is doing is giving people the illusion that they have a better chance of drawing as they get more points. We basically have a random draw system with very poor odds. If we all actually know what draw odds were we wouldnt be surprised when we dont draw. Just a completely random draw like Idaho's in my opinion would be best. The odds are clear, you make your pick. I dont believe most people realize how low our odds of drawing are.
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Mtnwalker on June 13, 2024, 11:03:49 AM: Quote from: trophyhunt on June 13, 2024, 10:41:03 AM
Ahh, the “deserve” word, it gets peoples panties in a bunch. Simple question, why does WY give 75% of their tags to the highest point holders? Just because? Or do they feel the guys waiting the longest “deserve” a much better chance? It’s not a “right” it’s simple if you think about it. A guy standing in line for 3 hours at a popular ride, does he deserve to get on the ride before some guy who woke up late and just walks past everyone and gets on in 5 minutes? It’s not a bad word, deserve is what a lot of people feel who have been waiting decades, compared to some lucky guy who drew w decades less points. I don’t look down on the guys w 25+ points who feel they’ve put in their time and should draw, they should. I get the odds suck big time, but even IF I zero out someday, I’ll always feel the guys/gals waiting decades “deserve” a damn tag. Appreciate your thoughts on my example of Wyoming. Flame on

Why does Wyoming offer the option to pay $2000 for the same exact elk tag as another guy who can only afford the $690 tag, just to boost odds? Why does Wyoming sell $50 preference points on top of that $2000 tag? Because revenue. Wyoming doesn't give two $***$ about fairness, or who "deserves" a tag. They give 75% of the tags to top point holders to force those individuals to keep investing in their points system. Drop one point below max and you're screwed
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: vandeman17 on June 13, 2024, 11:26:54 AM: Quote from: trophyhunt on June 13, 2024, 10:41:03 AM
Ahh, the “deserve” word, it gets peoples panties in a bunch. Simple question, why does WY give 75% of their tags to the highest point holders? Just because? Or do they feel the guys waiting the longest “deserve” a much better chance? It’s not a “right” it’s simple if you think about it. A guy standing in line for 3 hours at a popular ride, does he deserve to get on the ride before some guy who woke up late and just walks past everyone and gets on in 5 minutes? It’s not a bad word, deserve is what a lot of people feel who have been waiting decades, compared to some lucky guy who drew w decades less points. I don’t look down on the guys w 25+ points who feel they’ve put in their time and should draw, they should. I get the odds suck big time, but even IF I zero out someday, I’ll always feel the guys/gals waiting decades “deserve” a damn tag. Appreciate your thoughts on my example of Wyoming. Flame on

Bonus vs preference. One is a lottery, one is deserve
Title: Re: Didn't draw again 🤣
Post by: Crunchy on June 13, 2024, 12:59:02 PM: I can join the loser club. Anywhere from 8-21 points in all categories and not one tag :dunno: Can't catch a break.