Post by: bigtex on November 17, 2024, 06:17:27 PM
by MATTHEW BROWN Associated Press
Sun, November 17th 2024 at 5:42 PM
U.S. officials would allow increased logging on federal lands across the Pacific Northwest in the name of fighting wildfires and boosting rural economies under proposed changes to a sweeping forest management plan that's been in place for three decades.
The U.S. Forest Service proposal, released Friday, would overhaul the Northwest Forest Plan that governs about 38,000 square miles (99,000 square kilometers) in Oregon, Washington and California.
The plan was adopted in 1994 under President Bill Clinton amid pressure to curb destructive logging practices that resulted in widespread clearcuts and destroyed habitat used by spotted owls. Timber harvests dropped dramatically in subsequent years, spurring political backlash.
But federal officials now say worsening wildfires due to climate change mean forests must be more actively managed to increase their resiliency. Increased logging also would provide a more predictable supply of trees for timber companies, officials said, helping rural economies that have suffered after lumber mills shut down and forestry jobs disappeared.
The proposal could increase annual timber harvests by at least 33% and potentially more than 200%, according to a draft environmental study. The number of timber-related jobs would increase accordingly.
Harvest volumes from the 17 national forests covered by the Northwest Forest Plan averaged about 445 million board feet annually over the past decade, according to government figures.
Cutting more trees would help reduce wildfire risk and make communities safer, the study concluded. That would be accomplished in part by allowing cuts in some areas with stands of trees up to 120 years old — up from the current age threshold of 80 years.
The change could help foster conditions conducive to growing larger, old growth trees that are more resistant to fire, by removing younger trees, officials said.
A separate pending proposal from President Joe Biden's administration aims to increase protections nationwide for old growth trees, which play a significant role in storing climate change-inducing carbon dioxide.
"Much has changed in society and science since the Northwest Forest Plan was created," Jacque Buchanan, regional forester for the Forest Service's Pacific Northwest Region, said in a statement. He said the proposal would help the agency adapt to shifting conditions, as global warming increases the frequency of droughts and other extreme weather events.
The proposed plan also calls for closer cooperation between the Forest Service and Native American tribes to tap into tribal knowledge about forest management. Tribes were excluded when the 1994 plan was crafted.
Environmentalists greeted the proposal with skepticism. The group Oregon Wild said it was "deeply troubling" that the Forest Service would release the proposal just ahead of a change in presidential administrations.
"It appears that the Forest Service wants to abandon the fundamental purpose of the Northwest Forest Plan–protecting fish and wildlife and the mature and old-growth forests they need to survive," John Persell, an attorney for the group, said in a statement.
During former President Donald Trump's first term, administration officials sought to open millions of acres of West Coast forest to new logging by stripping habitat protections for the imperiled spotted owl. The move was opposed by government biologists and reversed under Biden.
A draft environmental study examined several potential alternatives, including leaving the existing plan's components in place or changing them to either reduce or increase logging.
A timber industry representative who co-chaired an advisory committee on the Northwest Forest Plan said the proposed plan resulted from discussions involving committee members, the Forest Service and others.
"We want to see a modern approach to federal forest stewardship that protects us from catastrophic wildfires, reduces toxic smoke, meaningfully engages tribes, and delivers for our rural communities and workers," said Travis Joseph, president of the American Forest Resource Council.
The publishing of the proposal begins a 120-day public comment period. The Forest Service's environmental review is expected to be completed by next fall and a final decision is due in early 2026
https://komonews.com/news/local/more-logging-is-proposed-to-help-curb-wildfires-in-the-us-pacific-northwest#
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Post by: WoolyRunner on November 17, 2024, 06:43:41 PM
Post by: MADMAX on November 17, 2024, 06:49:45 PM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 17, 2024, 07:01:53 PM
Post by: lewy on November 17, 2024, 07:11:34 PM
Post by: DeerThug on November 17, 2024, 07:16:15 PM
There is a reason the forest service is under the Department of Agriculture. The forests and lands were meant to be used, harvested replanted no different that Ag crops. Not just to be let go to burn away.
Post by: hunter399 on November 17, 2024, 07:23:34 PM
I'd like to see a checker board style of logging units.
Or ski run style units.
This is the best way for fire suppression, habitat/hunting.
Kinda a good mix of old growth/new growth.
As the logging goes.... get'er done 👍
You look at old logging units ,crazy shapes,just kinda zig zag in there unit boundaries. Makes more sense for fire purpose,to be a bit more organized,Technology/GPS these days, shouldn't be a problem.
Post by: actionshooter on November 17, 2024, 07:42:13 PM
Post by: Alan K on November 17, 2024, 08:19:29 PM
Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:
I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
Post by: Buckhunter24 on November 17, 2024, 08:34:00 PM
Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
It would sure be great if they put sale layout contracts out to bid like some other agencies do . Plenty of contractors would be happy to do the work..
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 17, 2024, 08:51:06 PM
Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
I’d be really happy if the Red-Tape around NEPA could be cut. It’s the hold up for the most part on almost every project. Having to do 6-10 entries on a timber sale project or wait years for clearance to burn an area is some crap.
Should say too that the roads packages that the “engineers” want is something else. Spend way longer time thinking about replacement culverts and working on roads before even putting a timber sale up for bid sometimes.
Post by: Humptulips on November 17, 2024, 09:26:35 PM
NEPA? You might be interested in this ruling out of the D.C. Circuit Court of AppealsDoubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
I’d be really happy if the Red-Tape around NEPA could be cut. It’s the hold up for the most part on almost every project. Having to do 6-10 entries on a timber sale project or wait years for clearance to burn an area is some crap.
Should say too that the roads packages that the “engineers” want is something else. Spend way longer time thinking about replacement culverts and working on roads before even putting a timber sale up for bid sometimes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesbroughel/2024/11/13/environmental-policy-act-ruling-casts-doubt-on-white-house-authority/
Post by: addicted1 on November 17, 2024, 11:17:20 PM
Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
I’d be really happy if the Red-Tape around NEPA could be cut. It’s the hold up for the most part on almost every project. Having to do 6-10 entries on a timber sale project or wait years for clearance to burn an area is some crap.
Should say too that the roads packages that the “engineers” want is something else. Spend way longer time thinking about replacement culverts and working on roads before even putting a timber sale up for bid sometimes.
How do you log without a road? And, if you want that road to last more than a month what would you do?
Post by: Katmai Guy on November 18, 2024, 12:18:44 AM
You don't, you build a one time use road like the state does when they selectively log their blocks of timber around Republic. After the logging operation is finished they leave the road they made to degrade over the years until they plan to log that parcel again(30+yrs) They aren't meant for public use and shouldn't need to comply with rules/regs that guarantees they can be used for 50+ yrs.Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
I’d be really happy if the Red-Tape around NEPA could be cut. It’s the hold up for the most part on almost every project. Having to do 6-10 entries on a timber sale project or wait years for clearance to burn an area is some crap.
Should say too that the roads packages that the “engineers” want is something else. Spend way longer time thinking about replacement culverts and working on roads before even putting a timber sale up for bid sometimes.
How do you log without a road? And, if you want that road to last more than a month what would you do?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 18, 2024, 05:48:57 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 18, 2024, 07:10:12 AM
Few years back the guys were falling faster than roads could be built. They used balloons and helicopters to move logs.Doubt this one will get done before the department of government efficiency decide to sell off the federal land 😂
Don't need to sell the land, just cut 90% of the non-value added employees and sustainably log. It could be managed in the black just like virtually every other timberland owner! :tup:I know a guy who works for DNR managing timber and he said they have been working with USFS regarding Washingtons logging practices.... Seems that it's been so long for USFS, they didn't have anyone who knew how to manage the logging.
The DNR also has been behind on the timber they've promised to sell on behalf of the trusts... Their excuse has always been "lack of staffing", yet their staff now have time to work on USFS timber sales under good neighbor authority? :DOH:
It is true that most if not all of the USFS employees that were around when the FS actually harvested timber have moved on or retired.
Regardless of the government failings, any additional timber harvest is a good thing for the region! We are blessed with one of the nation's greatest renewable resources, it should be utilized!
I’d be really happy if the Red-Tape around NEPA could be cut. It’s the hold up for the most part on almost every project. Having to do 6-10 entries on a timber sale project or wait years for clearance to burn an area is some crap.
Should say too that the roads packages that the “engineers” want is something else. Spend way longer time thinking about replacement culverts and working on roads before even putting a timber sale up for bid sometimes.
How do you log without a road? And, if you want that road to last more than a month what would you do?
Post by: addicted1 on November 18, 2024, 07:38:27 AM
Post by: Buckjunkie on November 18, 2024, 08:16:21 AM
Post by: pd on November 18, 2024, 08:58:52 AM
I have a just one comment:
About Bloody Time
Post by: GASoline71 on November 18, 2024, 11:36:58 AM
Gary
Post by: Special T on November 18, 2024, 12:28:25 PM
Post by: ducks4days on November 18, 2024, 02:39:48 PM
Post by: baldopepper on November 18, 2024, 02:49:05 PM
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on November 18, 2024, 03:07:19 PM
Are prices on timber finally up? Last I heard there was such a glut of timber that most logging companies couldnt justify logging. They don't cut just to cut, they've got to make a profit and I hear that's not happening right now
the lumber marked is currently on a run, especially in wide's
Post by: actionshooter on November 18, 2024, 07:53:38 PM
Are prices on timber finally up? Last I heard there was such a glut of timber that most logging companies couldnt justify logging. They don't cut just to cut, they've got to make a profit and I hear that's not happening right now
the lumber marked is currently on a run, especially in wide's
Almost everything ias on a run right now... at least for the last couple of weeks :)
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 18, 2024, 09:47:17 PM
Are they planning on staffing local lumber yards to handle the timber increase, or is the excess still planned to be sold to counties in asia?
That’s what I was thinking, I really don’t think the mills left could handle a large in flux of logs.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on November 19, 2024, 05:56:15 PM
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on November 20, 2024, 08:15:14 AM
Are they planning on staffing local lumber yards to handle the timber increase, or is the excess still planned to be sold to counties in asia?
That’s what I was thinking, I really don’t think the mills left could handle a large in flux of logs.
the timber industry would evolve to absorb what is being cut, timber companies would prefer to hold their own timber resources in most cases if they can procure logs from outside sources. we have lost 7-8 mills this year in WA ID OR and some of those closures were due to lack of log availability to run the mill at optimal levels. BC has lost around 22 mills in the last two years. if we see a resealable increase in demand over normal markets we will see very short supply and high prices.