Post by: LDennis24 on December 01, 2024, 11:30:13 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 01, 2024, 12:26:28 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 01, 2024, 12:39:50 PM
Never had their product, so can't speak to that.
Folks need to think twice before acting.....A simple push to the ground can kill folks. Then repeated blows to the head..... Is it really worth going to prison for manslaughter / murder if that older guy ended up with a head bleed and dies? Walk away....it's not worth holding another inmates turned out pocket for the next 10-30 years.
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 12:51:18 PM
a little bit over reaction for sure
Post by: highside74 on December 01, 2024, 12:55:24 PM
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2024, 01:18:20 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 01, 2024, 01:21:25 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 01, 2024, 01:30:47 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on December 01, 2024, 01:33:12 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 01, 2024, 02:39:47 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 01, 2024, 03:09:09 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on December 01, 2024, 03:50:29 PM
Even if an old man is being obnoxious it still doesn’t give you the right to make it physical especially when you are the employee of a business. Employees can’t even chase shop lifters these days so it would be hard to justify knocking an 86 year old man to the ground for being rude and using foul language.
:yeah:
Is the old guy wearing a MAGA hat? Maybe that was a trigger? :dunno:
Post by: Bullkllr on December 01, 2024, 04:10:31 PM
Post by: storyteller on December 01, 2024, 04:12:06 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 01, 2024, 04:25:18 PM
I go to CJ's in Wapato, we get bulk sausage, very good, I buy a bunch when we pick up our beef.
Does the casing taste like plastic? It appears that is the question of the hour otherwise this may be another MAGA hate crime :chuckle:
Post by: LDennis24 on December 01, 2024, 04:52:38 PM
Does it chew well with dentures?
Post by: raydog on December 01, 2024, 04:53:59 PM
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2024, 06:40:29 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 06:45:18 PM
Without knowing what is said, you don’t get a free pass because you’re old. Something similar happened in my town, and I know the antagonizing old man and he deserved everything he got. I’m not saying this guy does. But I would not jump to the older guys side just because he is old.
Naaaah
You just don’t beat the crap out of an 86 year old
Bad juju
Post by: jrebel on December 01, 2024, 06:48:43 PM
Be like saying an antagonizing woman deserved the same treatment. Walk away.....diffuse the situation. If he doesn't leave, have him trespassed.
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 06:50:23 PM
The guy in the kilt is lucky he didn’t take a couple center mass
“I was in fear for my life”
Post by: Dan-o on December 01, 2024, 06:56:18 PM
Without knowing what is said, you don’t get a free pass because you’re old. Something similar happened in my town, and I know the antagonizing old man and he deserved everything he got. I’m not saying this guy does. But I would not jump to the older guys side just because he is old.
Naaaah
You just don’t beat the crap out of an 86 year old
Bad juju
:yeah:
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 01, 2024, 07:00:24 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 07:07:20 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1qTPomjt50&pp=ygUfQmVsZmFpciBtYW4gc2hpdmVkIGkuIFJpYWQgcmFnZQ%3D%3D
Not OK
Post by: HntnFsh on December 01, 2024, 07:09:44 PM
Its going to be pretty hard for him around town trying to explain what a bad ass he is for putting a whoopin on an 86 year old man! He may actually find somebody else that wants to test him to see how tough he really is!
What a friggin moron!
Post by: passman65 on December 01, 2024, 07:15:52 PM
Here’s the local incident referred to above
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1qTPomjt50&pp=ygUfQmVsZmFpciBtYW4gc2hpdmVkIGkuIFJpYWQgcmFnZQ%3D%3D
Not OK
:yeah:
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2024, 07:25:12 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 01, 2024, 07:41:12 PM
Can’t wait to get old so I can say and do whatever I want with no consequences.
It's really just a maturity issue.....you don't get to beat on the vulnerable populations. Just like you don't get to smack a down syndrome kid who steals a candy bar from the store. If you don't understand that....your likely a lot like the skirt wearing guy who clearly made a bad decision. Having the old man trespassed would have been consequences enough. Hell....probably could have just gave the guy a pound of burger and changed the situation 180 degrees with the kind gesture. It's called, being the bigger man.
Post by: passman65 on December 01, 2024, 07:42:50 PM
It's really just a maturity issue.....you don't get to beat on the vulnerable populations. Just like you don't get to smack a down syndrome kid who steals a candy bar from the store. If you don't understand that....your likely a lot like the skirt wearing guy who clearly made a bad decision. Having the old man trespassed would have been consequences enough. Hell....probably could have just gave the guy a pound of burger and changed the situation 180 degrees with the kind gesture. It's called, being the bigger man.
:yeah:
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 07:48:17 PM
Can’t wait to get old so I can say and do whatever I want with no consequences.
Come on man
Really ?
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2024, 08:08:45 PM
Can’t wait to get old so I can say and do whatever I want with no consequences.
It's really just a maturity issue.....you don't get to beat on the vulnerable populations. Just like you don't get to smack a down syndrome kid who steals a candy bar from the store. If you don't understand that....your likely a lot like the skirt wearing guy who clearly made a bad decision. Having the old man trespassed would have been consequences enough. Hell....probably could have just gave the guy a pound of burger and changed the situation 180 degrees with the kind gesture. It's called, being the bigger man.
I don’t even know how to respond to this. You stretch it from beating on an old guy that provoked someone to a Down syndrome kid stealing a candy bar. I am not saying what the store worker did was right but I am saying you can’t get a get away free card just because you’re old. Why would he give him burger if he is being an A hole?
Post by: jrebel on December 01, 2024, 08:20:07 PM
Can’t wait to get old so I can say and do whatever I want with no consequences.
It's really just a maturity issue.....you don't get to beat on the vulnerable populations. Just like you don't get to smack a down syndrome kid who steals a candy bar from the store. If you don't understand that....your likely a lot like the skirt wearing guy who clearly made a bad decision. Having the old man trespassed would have been consequences enough. Hell....probably could have just gave the guy a pound of burger and changed the situation 180 degrees with the kind gesture. It's called, being the bigger man.
I don’t even know how to respond to this. You stretch it from beating on an old guy that provoked someone to a Down syndrome kid stealing a candy bar. I am not saying what the store worker did was right but I am saying you can’t get a get away free card just because you’re old. Why would he give him burger if he is being an A hole?
Vulnerable adults.....Elderly (not all), special needs, etc. (see post below it you still don't get it). That is the connection / correlation. You don't get to just beat on people because they don't like your store / meat. The given of meat (i.e. pound of burger) would be one of many ways to diffuse the situation.....taking the high road.....being the bigger man.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vulnerable+adulsts&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS1069US1069&oq=vulnerable+adulsts+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQABgNGIAEMgkIAhAAGA0YgAQyCQgDEAAYDRiABDIJCAQQABgNGIAEMgkIBRAAGA0YgAQyCQgGEAAYDRiABDIJCAcQABgNGIAEMgkICBAAGA0YgAQyCQgJEAAYDRiABNIBCTEzOTk5ajFqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Post by: Skillet on December 01, 2024, 08:21:55 PM
:twocents:
Post by: freshgrease on December 01, 2024, 08:26:11 PM
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
Post by: passman65 on December 01, 2024, 08:26:45 PM
I have no doubt the old guy was being a class A prick, but in no circumstance should a grown man let himself get triggered emotionally to the point he initiates contact on an actual non-threat. Lashing out like that is for people who can't regulate themselves, or have such a weak sense of self their pride is too easily wounded.
:twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: Fidelk on December 01, 2024, 08:27:40 PM
Assault/injure an elderly person and sentencing enhancements can be applied. Maybe those wouldn't be applied if he buried the cleaver too deep in kilt boys skull.
Post by: Skillet on December 01, 2024, 08:34:21 PM
You can definitely tell who is 55+ in these replies :chuckle:
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
Hey man, don't make me 55 yet! I got a few more years... :chuckle:
I'm not talking about anything that happened after that initial shove, to be clear. I'm saying that a man has a responsibility to keep his mitts off a more vulnerable person (elderly, women, kids, mentally disabled, etc.), no matter how antagonistic their words are - unless that person initiates physical violence. If they do, then by all means defend yourself. Sometimes people need to learn a hard lesson.
Post by: Dan-o on December 01, 2024, 08:34:36 PM
You can definitely tell who is 55+ in these replies :chuckle:
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
I'm 62. Neither I nor any of my three grown sons would shove or punch an 86 year old man.
We also wouldn't hit a woman.
It's not about our age.
We were all raised not to hit helpless people, even if they are being a jerk.
Post by: Shoofly09 on December 01, 2024, 08:38:29 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 01, 2024, 08:39:27 PM
My fist fighting days are over
You don’t whoop up on old folks
It’ll get you shot or jailed these days
Honestly
If someone did that you your mom or dad
How would you respond ?
That’s how feuds start
Post by: jrebel on December 01, 2024, 08:41:51 PM
Maybe I was raised correctly and learned to respect my elders. If I punched everybody that said nasty things to me, I wouldn't be in the career I'm in. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: passman65 on December 01, 2024, 08:43:37 PM
You can definitely tell who is 55+ in these replies :chuckle:
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
Funny, I read some of these replies and just think "Kids these days" :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on December 01, 2024, 08:44:35 PM
Without knowing what is said, you don’t get a free pass because you’re old. Something similar happened in my town, and I know the antagonizing old man and he deserved everything he got. I’m not saying this guy does. But I would not jump to the older guys side just because he is old.
Disagree.
Dude in the skirt needs to control himself. It would take a lot of words to get me to beat up an old man. If the old guy was using a weapon or harming someone else, that’s a different story, but words… nope. Man up and walk away.
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2024, 08:54:52 PM
Y toWithout knowing what is said, you don’t get a free pass because you’re old. Something similar happened in my town, and I know the antagonizing old man and he deserved everything he got. I’m not saying this guy does. But I would not jump to the older guys side just because he is old.
Disagree.
Dude in the skirt needs to control himself. It would take a lot of words to get me to beat up an old man. If the old guy was using a weapon or harming someone else, that’s a different story, but words… nope. Man up and walk away.
Not sure what you are disagreeing with? All I said was he shouldn’t get a pass because he is old. I hold my elders in highest regard but I give respect like I get it, I don’t care if you’re 8 or 80. Guy in the skirt definitely over stepped. No reason to take it that far.
Post by: Fidelk on December 01, 2024, 08:56:49 PM
Post by: freshgrease on December 01, 2024, 09:15:10 PM
You can definitely tell who is 55+ in these replies :chuckle:
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
I'm 62. Neither I nor any of my three grown sons would shove or punch an 86 year old man.
We also wouldn't hit a woman.
It's not about our age.
We were all raised not to hit helpless people, even if they are being a jerk.
Sometimes I just like poking fun at you old farts :hello:
I just hope when I hit 86 I'm healthy enough to be able to read the room on when to avoid getting my grey hair tossed around by a guy in a kilt. It's a lame way to die
Post by: LDennis24 on December 01, 2024, 10:33:10 PM
Y toWithout knowing what is said, you don’t get a free pass because you’re old. Something similar happened in my town, and I know the antagonizing old man and he deserved everything he got. I’m not saying this guy does. But I would not jump to the older guys side just because he is old.
Disagree.
Dude in the skirt needs to control himself. It would take a lot of words to get me to beat up an old man. If the old guy was using a weapon or harming someone else, that’s a different story, but words… nope. Man up and walk away.
Not sure what you are disagreeing with? All I said was he shouldn’t get a pass because he is old. I hold my elders in highest regard but I give respect like I get it, I don’t care if you’re 8 or 80. Guy in the skirt definitely over stepped. No reason to take it that far.
So if an 8 yr old makes fun of you you think it's OK to assault them? Because if you watch the video what the kilt wearing Jackie did was assault. I'll bet there is a lawsuit over it also. We will see where it goes. I'll keep this updated.
Post by: LDennis24 on December 01, 2024, 10:35:46 PM
https://www.yoursourceone.com/columbia_basin/police-report-reveals-more-about-attack-on-elderly-customer-at-moses-lake-business/article_4167013e-ae91-11ef-87ac-6bf9b1267ef1.html
Post by: addicted1 on December 01, 2024, 10:37:42 PM
Post by: Cylvertip on December 01, 2024, 11:33:08 PM
You can definitely tell who is 55+ in these replies :chuckle:
He had 86 years on this planet to learn how to not FAFO with unstable ppl. Not everyone plays nicely and being old doesn't get you a pass.
Who thinks taking a crotch shot is going to do anything put get your face punched lol.
I tend to agree. I would lime to see the entire video unedited to make my final conclusion.
Post by: MADMAX on December 02, 2024, 05:36:16 AM
still not ok to beat on the old boy
Post by: Bullkllr on December 02, 2024, 06:10:37 AM
Post by: 300rum on December 02, 2024, 06:24:28 AM
Post by: Sandberm on December 02, 2024, 06:56:02 AM
Shrug your shoulders, be amused that the old guy still has some spark and pander him a bit knowing you are the bigger man and that he will soon be meeting his maker anyways.
I have a feeling skirt guy is the bosses nephew or something along those lines. Has a divorce under his belt and lives in his moms basement playing video games and smoking weed when he's not working.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 02, 2024, 07:50:25 AM
Yeah, a maga was hassling a trans.I go to CJ's in Wapato, we get bulk sausage, very good, I buy a bunch when we pick up our beef.
Does the casing taste like plastic? It appears that is the question of the hour otherwise this may be another MAGA hate crime :chuckle:
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 07:59:54 AM
I have a feeling skirt guy is the bosses nephew or something along those lines. Has a divorce under his belt and lives in his moms basement playing video games and smoking weed when he's not working.
You are really really good......I missed all of that.
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 08:20:45 AM
Post by: Sandberm on December 02, 2024, 08:21:33 AM
He looks like the type of guy that goes to Renaissance Faires and asks highschool girls if they want to see his vape pen collection.
I have a feeling skirt guy is the bosses nephew or something along those lines. Has a divorce under his belt and lives in his moms basement playing video games and smoking weed when he's not working.
You are really really good......I missed all of that.
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 08:33:17 AM
He looks like the type of guy that goes to Renaissance Faires and asks highschool girls if they want to see his vape pen collection.
I have a feeling skirt guy is the bosses nephew or something along those lines. Has a divorce under his belt and lives in his moms basement playing video games and smoking weed when he's not working.
You are really really good......I missed all of that.
Yes......now I see that.
Post by: LDennis24 on December 02, 2024, 08:57:45 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 02, 2024, 09:07:46 AM
So for all of you who think old guy was wrong, what reason did the skirt boy have for coming around the counter to get in old guys face and initiate the confrontation? Why didn't he stay behind the counter?Come to my place of work, stand there and insult me personally, because you don't like the hat I'm wearing, yes I will come around the counter and you will leave. :twocents:
Post by: dylan34_36 on December 02, 2024, 09:09:30 AM
So for all of you who think old guy was wrong, what reason did the skirt boy have for coming around the counter to get in old guys face and initiate the confrontation? Why didn't he stay behind the counter?
Regardless of age and insulting comments of peoples outfits, I might do a quick google on washington's stand your ground laws. What I saw is a bully get put in his place. I also think comparing this super grown man to a child or intellectually disabled person is insulting to those who are young or intellectually disabled. Theres a reason there are protections for juveniles and disabled persons. I do believe the elder man was asked to leave and didn't. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure thats trespassing. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 02, 2024, 09:31:25 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on December 02, 2024, 09:37:27 AM
If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts it, was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. You can't tell from the video. There was no chance for any force behind it, and SG's only reaction to it was to immediately punch OG in the head several times while he lolled on the floor.
Remind me again; who's the bully?
Post by: Sandberm on December 02, 2024, 10:05:18 AM
Post by: dylan34_36 on December 02, 2024, 10:07:56 AM
I'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.I mean someone refusing to leave a business is trespassing. According to the stand your ground policy you have no duty to retreat and are legally allowed to use "reasonable force" if you feel threatened especially in place of business or in your home. When you square up and make a fist, I would interpret that as a threat of violence. Here is where you can de-escalate or use your reasonable force. I would consider the push reasonable force. Since the "punch to the groin" isn't seen on the camera but is admitted to by the one on the ground, reasonable force is in question when the skirt man does his ground and pound. He is being charged with 4th degree assault according to the article that was posted which does seem warranted considering how this situation ended. Although the older man could just as easily be charged with trespassing.
If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.
Remind me again; who's the bully?
"Washington courts have consistently upheld our right to remain in a lawful location with “no duty to retreat.” Flight, however reasonable as an alternative to violence, is not required. While the wisdom of such a policy may be open to debate, the policy is one of long standing and reflects the notion that one lawfully where he is entitled to be should not be made to yield and flee by a show of unlawful force against him. See State v. Williams, 81 Wn.App. 738 (1996)."
I'd say clearly it wasn't handled well by either party. Shouldn't be squaring up if you don't got a good base and you shouldn't be punching folks on the ground if you wanna stay free.
Post by: jrebel on December 02, 2024, 10:10:14 AM
Dealing with a father suffering mental decline has really opened my eyes to how many people walking around on a daily basis are probably dealing with similar issues. He was always one of the friendliest most outgoing people I knew, never rude or confrontational. Over the course of the last year he has become irritable, difficult, and outright confrontational at times. His old self would be appalled by who he has become. He still functions fine and it's not like I can force him to stay home because he might piss off the cashier at Home Depot or something, but I should hope the people he encounters throughout his day can have the compassion and common decency to deal with him being an ass without getting physical. Bottom line, skirt boy is a coward plain and simple. His wife's shop now gets to pay the price for his insecurity
Very well said. I see this daily at work and it is very sad, but reality. Physiologically, our bodies change as we age. For the members condoning or justifying skirt boys actions.....I really hope you have second thoughts if ever put in that situation. I regularly see simple ground level falls cause head bleads, fractured hips / arms, etc. in our elderly population. A forceful push to a concrete floor and then closed fist blows to the temple area......that old man is lucky to be alive and not more seriously injured than he was.
No one wins in these situations folks.....older man gets hurt (luck not to be killed) and younger man ends up in jail or with a record. Be smart folks.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 02, 2024, 10:20:38 AM
I had one cashier who was excellent, but every year she would piss one customer off about something. I would always tell her.
“Everyday people come through the door with problems you can’t solve, don’t let them make their problem your problem”
I have a step son who wears a kilt to work some. If you are going to make yourself stand out you got to have the confidence to live with your choices. Hats or dress shouldn’t be an issue in this day and age.
I have trespassed lots of folks and never would I lay hands on them. That’s what LE is for.
And I expect a different answer from folks who are owners and folks who are employees. But that doesn’t make it right.
In my opinion which means nothing, any claim of self defense ended when OG hit the ground. KG should have stepped back and called LE. If OG came after him at that point things have changed.
But OG might have a case once he hit ground because KG advanced on him, any thing OG did while on the floor could easily be painted defensive.
I am 73, folks call me a nice guy , that doesn’t mean someone can’t push my button. I have let my displeasure be know when I think an employee somewhere or manager is mistreating me or others.
:twocents:
Post by: Bullkllr on December 02, 2024, 10:23:26 AM
I'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.I mean someone refusing to leave a business is trespassing. According to the stand your ground policy you have no duty to retreat and are legally allowed to use "reasonable force" if you feel threatened especially in place of business or in your home. When you square up and make a fist, I would interpret that as a threat of violence. Here is where you can de-escalate or use your reasonable force. I would consider the push reasonable force. Since the "punch to the groin" isn't seen on the camera but is admitted to by the one on the ground, reasonable force is in question when the skirt man does his ground and pound. He is being charged with 4th degree assault according to the article that was posted which does seem warranted considering how this situation ended. Although the older man could just as easily be charged with trespassing.
If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.
Remind me again; who's the bully?
"Washington courts have consistently upheld our right to remain in a lawful location with “no duty to retreat.” Flight, however reasonable as an alternative to violence, is not required. While the wisdom of such a policy may be open to debate, the policy is one of long standing and reflects the notion that one lawfully where he is entitled to be should not be made to yield and flee by a show of unlawful force against him. See State v. Williams, 81 Wn.App. 738 (1996)."
I'd say clearly it wasn't handled well by either party. Shouldn't be squaring up if you don't got a good base and you shouldn't be punching folks on the ground if you wanna stay free.
Agree with pretty much everything you mention, except the part regarding the old man's posturing being a legit threat. There's a 5-letter word for what the skirt-wearer looks like in being "threatened" by that old man enough to do what he did. I'd mention it, but I don't think it would get by the censors. :twocents:
Post by: dylan34_36 on December 02, 2024, 10:33:00 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I probably wouldn't consider his posturing being a legit threat either. 100% not after he went to the ground.I'm thinking the legal threshold for physical violence is higher than someone being in a business and then being asked to leave. It doesn't matter what he said to the guy in the eyes of the law.I mean someone refusing to leave a business is trespassing. According to the stand your ground policy you have no duty to retreat and are legally allowed to use "reasonable force" if you feel threatened especially in place of business or in your home. When you square up and make a fist, I would interpret that as a threat of violence. Here is where you can de-escalate or use your reasonable force. I would consider the push reasonable force. Since the "punch to the groin" isn't seen on the camera but is admitted to by the one on the ground, reasonable force is in question when the skirt man does his ground and pound. He is being charged with 4th degree assault according to the article that was posted which does seem warranted considering how this situation ended. Although the older man could just as easily be charged with trespassing.
If you really watch the video closely, there isn't much to argue that the old guy was ever a physical threat. Skirt guy turfed him, then took several steps forward as OG was helplessly rolling onto his side and reaching for his head. Then skirt guy stood over him, saying who knows what. "The punch" as he puts, it was OG basically taking his arm off his own head and flailing it in SG's direction- and he says it landed near his groin. There was no chance for any force behind it. Then he punched OG in the head several times.
Remind me again; who's the bully?
"Washington courts have consistently upheld our right to remain in a lawful location with “no duty to retreat.” Flight, however reasonable as an alternative to violence, is not required. While the wisdom of such a policy may be open to debate, the policy is one of long standing and reflects the notion that one lawfully where he is entitled to be should not be made to yield and flee by a show of unlawful force against him. See State v. Williams, 81 Wn.App. 738 (1996)."
I'd say clearly it wasn't handled well by either party. Shouldn't be squaring up if you don't got a good base and you shouldn't be punching folks on the ground if you wanna stay free.
Agree with pretty much everything you mention, except the part regarding the old man's posturing being a legit threat. There's a 5-letter word for what the skirt-wearer looks like in being "threatened" by that old man enough to do what he did. I'd mention it, but I don't think it would get by the censors. :twocents:
Post by: Sandberm on December 02, 2024, 10:41:36 AM
Dealing with a father suffering mental decline has really opened my eyes to how many people walking around on a daily basis are probably dealing with similar issues. He was always one of the friendliest most outgoing people I knew, never rude or confrontational. Over the course of the last year he has become irritable, difficult, and outright confrontational at times. His old self would be appalled by who he has become. He still functions fine and it's not like I can force him to stay home because he might piss off the cashier at Home Depot or something, but I should hope the people he encounters throughout his day can have the compassion and common decency to deal with him being an ass without getting physical. Bottom line, skirt boy is a coward plain and simple. His wife's shop now gets to pay the price for his insecurityYour post brings back memories.
I typed out a long post about my fathers demise,... read it out loud to myself,... had a good cry and deleted it.
Thanks for the free therapy session Mtnwalker. Its good to relive some things, even if they were difficult. I feel a bit more human now.
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 02, 2024, 11:12:11 AM
After watching the video, I am wondering just how the old guy got into the person in the skirt personal space when the person in the skirt was the one who closed the distance and then confronted the old guy?
I'm sure several folks will have an opinion. But like I have said opinions are like "O"rings some of us just have larger ones.
Thanks to the people who have suggested we pay attention to our seniors who might be going thru dealing with dragons.
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 11:27:56 AM
So for all of you who think old guy was wrong, what reason did the skirt boy have for coming around the counter to get in old guys face and initiate the confrontation? Why didn't he stay behind the counter?
I think kilt guy can go anywhere in the shop that he wants to go to. He wasn't obligated to stay behind the counter. He probably wishes that he had and called the police to remove old guy.
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 11:33:11 AM
What I saw is a bully get put in his place. I also think comparing this super grown man to a child or intellectually disabled person is insulting to those who are young or intellectually disabled. Theres a reason there are protections for juveniles and disabled persons. I do believe the elder man was asked to leave and didn't. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure thats trespassing. Just my 2 cents.
The elderly also have protections in place, same as children and the disabled. An assault on an elderly person can result in enhanced sentencing following a conviction.
Post by: b0bbyg on December 02, 2024, 12:50:11 PM
I swear this message board could escalate a fart in a whirlwind into a nuclear bomb. :chuckle:
Don't disagree, I am sure we would have many self professed climatology experts that would weigh in.
Had an issue with a butcher once, we talked about it, I now don't spend money there.
Also have dealt with family in mental decline late in life, hard to explain the challenges to those who have not. You learn a lot going through it first hand.
Post by: dylan34_36 on December 02, 2024, 01:25:57 PM
What I saw is a bully get put in his place. I also think comparing this super grown man to a child or intellectually disabled person is insulting to those who are young or intellectually disabled. Theres a reason there are protections for juveniles and disabled persons. I do believe the elder man was asked to leave and didn't. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure thats trespassing. Just my 2 cents.
The elderly also have protections in place, same as children and the disabled. An assault on an elderly person can result in enhanced sentencing following a conviction.
Shoot fair enough. If the older man belongs in a vulnerable adult category I'll eat my words as far the insult goes.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on December 02, 2024, 02:37:57 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on December 02, 2024, 04:25:00 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on December 02, 2024, 04:25:29 PM
Post by: HikerHunter on December 02, 2024, 04:34:52 PM
Dealing with a father suffering mental decline has really opened my eyes to how many people walking around on a daily basis are probably dealing with similar issues. He was always one of the friendliest most outgoing people I knew, never rude or confrontational. Over the course of the last year he has become irritable, difficult, and outright confrontational at times. His old self would be appalled by who he has become. He still functions fine and it's not like I can force him to stay home because he might piss off the cashier at Home Depot or something, but I should hope the people he encounters throughout his day can have the compassion and common decency to deal with him being an ass without getting physical. Bottom line, skirt boy is a coward plain and simple. His wife's shop now gets to pay the price for his insecurity
I had a neighbor that something similar happened to. Nice guy, friendly, outgoing and great with kids. Had a medical condition that completely changed him. Irritable, odd behavior, got banned from his local Safeway for life...Took a couple years, but lucky for him, doctors figured out what was going on and he is back to normal now.
My take is kilt guy should have never let old guys words get to him. Stay behind the counter and let LE figure it out.
Post by: b0bbyg on December 02, 2024, 05:41:55 PM
What if they are both unbalanced mentally.
:dunno:
Post by: Fidelk on December 02, 2024, 05:56:02 PM
OK just throwing this out as I have no real knowledge of either individual.
What if they are both unbalanced mentally.
:dunno:
bobby gets it.......does anyone feel compelled to get bogged down in this drama.....just gimme my hot links and I'm outta here......
Post by: westside bull on December 02, 2024, 06:11:19 PM
Post by: tgray on December 02, 2024, 06:25:15 PM
Post by: Sandberm on December 03, 2024, 09:39:26 AM
https://www.yoursourceone.com/columbia_basin/cjs-custom-meats-reportedly-fires-employee-seen-assaulting-elderly-customer-in-july/article_606043bc-b11a-11ef-85ce-1725cb3f0ed0.html (https://www.yoursourceone.com/columbia_basin/cjs-custom-meats-reportedly-fires-employee-seen-assaulting-elderly-customer-in-july/article_606043bc-b11a-11ef-85ce-1725cb3f0ed0.html)
Post by: LDennis24 on December 03, 2024, 09:47:14 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 03, 2024, 10:19:03 AM
Maybe that would help them understand the world around them.
I’m likely to be that old dude in older age, but the military taught me how to keep my mouth shut when its necessary.🤣
Post by: Woodchuck on December 03, 2024, 10:30:42 AM
DO THEIR KELP CASINGS SUCK OR NOT!? :chuckle: :dunno:Put kelp casing on my pepperoni sticks and we will fight. LOL
Post by: Gentrys on December 03, 2024, 12:35:25 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 03, 2024, 07:20:59 PM
I swear this message board could escalate a fart in a whirlwind into a nuclear bomb. :chuckle:
Yep but this board is pretty harmless when compared to a man in a skirt who had his sausage insulted. :chuckle:
We need a pitchfork and torch emoji