Post by: brokentrail on December 22, 2024, 10:23:43 AM
Post by: furbearer365 on December 22, 2024, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 22, 2024, 10:34:25 AM
Post by: jrebel on December 22, 2024, 10:41:13 AM
That said....I think it is becoming more accepted and possible for the guys that spend time practicing It also takes money, to invest in capable equipment (primarily optics). Most factory rifles are very capable of 500 yard shots now days.....not to mention ammo has come a long ways in the last decade. But the cost of ammo has increased and I go back to my statement about practicing!! We shoot hundreds, if not thousands of rounds annually so we are very comfortable at extended (not long) range shots.
We practice to 800 yards and beyond.....mostly so the 500 - 600 yard shots are easy. 99% of hunters should not be shooting beyond 600 yards (my opinion). At 600 and beyond, the wind is critical (again my opinion) and most people don't practice enough to be able to consistently read the wind.
We have never wounded an animal when shooting at Mid ranges (exception being a bear that was hit where I was aiming and the bullet failed...the bear lived). My son has killed a bear at 500 yard and an elk at 520 yards....both 10 ringed. He has taken multiple animals in the mid 300 yard range. We won't take a mid range shot (400-600 yards) if we don't have ample time to set up and get stable. I would argue, we have made more questionable shots on close shots when it was, "shoulder and shoot" scenario.
At the end of the day....to each their own. I hope folks shooting beyond 300 yards are practicing a lot, though the reality is they are not. I see and hear it every year....world war 3 breaks out and folks are slinging led trying to walk a bullet in to a (now) running animals at ranges well beyond their comfort range. :bash: :bash: The vast majority of hunters pull their rifle out of the safe / closet a couple days before the season, confirm 100 yard zero with a 25 yard target and go hunting. These are the guys that have no business shooting past 200 yards (again....my opinion).
Post by: fowl smacker on December 22, 2024, 10:44:21 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 22, 2024, 10:47:34 AM
Post by: Westside88 on December 22, 2024, 10:54:51 AM
Post by: dreadi on December 22, 2024, 11:19:45 AM
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Post by: str8meat on December 22, 2024, 11:30:37 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on December 22, 2024, 11:41:08 AM
Post by: huntandjeep on December 22, 2024, 12:51:59 PM
Hell I work with a few guys that own 1 rifle. They will use 160gr for deer , then swap over to 200gr for elk. And never go re-check zero
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 22, 2024, 12:59:07 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 22, 2024, 12:59:29 PM
Post by: Fidelk on December 22, 2024, 01:05:30 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 22, 2024, 01:33:12 PM
Do you have to dial to shoot 300 yards. :dunno:
No, I don’t dial till I hit 350+ with my rifles. That said, if I have time to dial a 300 yard shot, I will. Most modern rifle don’t drop off a hair hold till your past 300. If I have time, I always dial as I like holding crosshairs on the exact spot I want to hit.
Post by: Griiz on December 22, 2024, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 22, 2024, 02:09:52 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 22, 2024, 02:36:40 PM
But can
Post by: pbg on December 22, 2024, 02:39:10 PM
I'm amazed at people that can hit targets at 600- 700 yards and beyond, but thanks to the equipment that is available today, scopes and rifles advancements makes it possible for just about anyone to become proficient in long range shooting but is it ethical to shoot an animal at extreme long ranges and still call it hunting ? That being said Im just asking a question not judging anyone .
Post by: brokentrail on December 22, 2024, 02:41:06 PM
Post by: High Climber on December 22, 2024, 03:15:15 PM
Here is BandC’s take on it I tend to agree. It’s not a set distance but at some point it becomes “shooting” and is no longer “hunting”
Post by: jrebel on December 22, 2024, 03:29:57 PM
I think we as hunters are treading thin water when we question others hunting methods. If it is within the law....it is hunting and we should all be acceptant of that method. Doesn't mean you have to hunt that way, but I wouldn't say it is isn't hunting. Calling it "shooting" is just one more method we as hunters can continue to divide each other.
Post by: bobdog86 on December 22, 2024, 03:44:28 PM
Post by: Fidelk on December 22, 2024, 06:36:38 PM
At what point is it no longer hunting and it becomes just shooting , are we loosing the art of stocking our game?
I'm amazed at people that can hit targets at 600- 700 yards and beyond, but thanks to the equipment that is available today, scopes and rifles advancements makes it possible for just about anyone to become proficient in long range shooting but is it ethical to shoot an animal at extreme long ranges and still call it hunting ? That being said Im just asking a question not judging anyone .
I think it is ethical if you can deliver a bullet to a big game animal's vitals at a velocity that will allow that bullet to expand according to specs and result in a clean (and quick) kill. You also do the "hunting" part before you put rifle and scope on the animal that you intend to shoot.
Post by: crabcreekhunter on December 22, 2024, 06:56:27 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on December 22, 2024, 06:57:23 PM
At what point is it no longer hunting and it becomes just shooting , are we loosing the art of stocking our game?Same could be said about sitting in a ground blind or tree stand :dunno:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 22, 2024, 07:02:15 PM
https://www.boone-crockett.org/bc-position-statement-long-range-shooting
Here is BandC’s take on it I tend to agree. It’s not a set distance but at some point it becomes “shooting” and is no longer “hunting”
Having grown up taking game to feed our family I always looked down on the Boone and Crocket as being an elitest group focused on killing and scoring trophies vs hunting in manner true to America’s heritage.
They may be the last ones to be an authority on fairness and ethical “Hunting” imo.
Post by: jamesfromseattle on December 22, 2024, 08:00:33 PM
I wish it were easier to find a place to practice longer shots on the westside. Because its a long drive to get somewhere I can practice holdover shots, I don't do it often enough to get good at it. I have a hard cap at 250 because that's comfortably within mpbr for my rifle.
Time off is precious right now, and I'd rather save it for hunting and scouting, which I enjoy more than shooting. Some day I'll work more on shooting--I have certainly had to pass on animals in the 300-500 range that would have been easy for some folks. Maybe when the kids are out of the house.
Post by: baldopepper on December 22, 2024, 08:06:42 PM
Post by: Skunkedoutdoors on December 22, 2024, 08:08:52 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 22, 2024, 08:42:17 PM
Post by: baldopepper on December 22, 2024, 08:49:25 PM
Post by: brokentrail on December 22, 2024, 09:09:14 PM
I have never been able to figure out where the line is? :dunno: Who gets to define "too far"??
I think about as being an individual(s) decision, as long as you can humanely kill the animal you are shooting. Like I said, too far for me is over 300 yards, at least currently. Not sure at my age that will ever change but it has been a discussion topic with my sons. They have lots of years to go, well at least hopefully, who knows in this state, and if they are going to change, may as well get started now and start practicing/shooting at those longer ranges.
Post by: TimberMuleys on December 22, 2024, 09:44:45 PM
Before I had my Ackley, my range was about 250 because I shot an old .270 savage with a cheap 3-9x scope and was not super efficient past that range.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: huntnnw on December 22, 2024, 09:47:05 PM
Post by: high_hunter on December 22, 2024, 11:34:56 PM
Post by: BigGoonTuna on December 23, 2024, 06:22:37 AM
I don’t really have an issue with people taking long shots as long as they’re capable, but the problem is people that think they’re better than they are taking those shots. I think most of us have witnessed some idiot slinging lead across a canyon or clear cut trying to “walk it in” on a buck at some point.
Personally I’m a little bummed that rifle hunting has become sort of “unlimited class” by a lot of measures, I think in the end it will end up hurting us as a whole. As others have said, after a certain point it just becomes shooting rather than hunting, but the tricky part is figuring out what that point is. Laser rangefinders being so cheap these days and some of the newer chamberings with ultra-high BC has taken a lot of the learning curve away. With all the social media influencers touting long range shooting, it seems that the challenge often has turned from who can get the closest to an animal, to who can take one from furthest away.
Post by: zwickeyman on December 23, 2024, 06:38:27 AM
Being on the west side I don’t get a lot of opportunity to practice longer range shooting, and it hasn’t particularly been a handicap in the areas I hunt, as I primarily “still hunt” the big timber.
I don’t really have an issue with people taking long shots as long as they’re capable, but the problem is people that think they’re better than they are taking those shots. I think most of us have witnessed some idiot slinging lead across a canyon or clear cut trying to “walk it in” on a buck at some point.
Personally I’m a little bummed that rifle hunting has become sort of “unlimited class” by a lot of measures, I think in the end it will end up hurting us as a whole. As others have said, after a certain point it just becomes shooting rather than hunting, but the tricky part is figuring out what that point is. Laser rangefinders being so cheap these days and some of the newer chamberings with ultra-high BC has taken a lot of the learning curve away. With all the social media influencers touting long range shooting, it seems that the challenge often has turned from who can get the closest to an animal, to who can take one from furthest away.
:yeah:
Im more proud of a 40 yard shot on a Mature Muley than a 500 yard shot
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 23, 2024, 06:50:58 AM
Muzzy out to 200 plus
Compound bow out to 100
We as a hunting community probably should limit our judgement of others use of and ability to reach out just a little further with their weapon of choice...cause eventually the State will key into it and add further restrictions attempting to even the playing field.
Understand it's just a talking point...but it comes up allot.
And I'd bet just as many animals get missed or wounded sub 300.. people fling lead regardless of distance..
As for me
I draw the line when Coriolis comes into play...the math hurts my head.. :chuckle:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 23, 2024, 08:24:39 AM
As a reloading hobbyist I fuss over preparing the best load possible - weighing powder to the single kernal, annealing brass everytime, sizing brass and seating bullets to a consistency of less than .001. I practice at 1000 yards fine tuning the ammo and practicing form and spotting shots. I expect to be able to cover 5 shots on target with my hand at 1000 yards.
This last fall we camped in a wall tent for 18 days hunting elk in idaho. We had smoke and snow to contend with and a lot of other hunters. We burned a ton of miles hiking and a ton more traveling between areas in a SXS. On the 14th day 3 miles in on a hike we located a 5x7 bull a couple miles down the canyon and made our couple hour stalk to get within range. The shot itself went as expected dropping the bull where it stood. It took my son and I three days to get it back to camp. The last day we logged 23 miles shuttling meat starting at 7am and getting back to camp at 1am.
It was an epic hunt. The shot itself was a tiny part of the adventure. Whether it was 100 yards or 500 yards or more wouldn’t have mattered.
Post by: baldopepper on December 23, 2024, 08:44:30 AM
Same arguments can be made for any modern day weapon system.Coriolis effect-lol, had to goggle it to see what you meant. Gave me a good laugh. Thanks.
Muzzy out to 200 plus
Compound bow out to 100
We as a hunting community probably should limit our judgement of others use of and ability to reach out just a little further with their weapon of choice...cause eventually the State will key into it and add further restrictions attempting to even the playing field.
Understand it's just a talking point...but it comes up allot.
And I'd bet just as many animals get missed or wounded sub 300.. people fling lead regardless of distance..
As for me
I draw the line when Coriolis comes into play...the math hurts my head.. :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on December 23, 2024, 08:48:27 AM
As Jim Shockey says, the sense of accomplishment is in direct proportion to the degree of difficulty.Good point. The hunt is so much more than the actual shot. I have shot my share of game over the years. Probably more than most. I have 9 mouths to feed in my household, and value any meat in the freezer as a precious commodity. Shots have been at a couple feet to, well, way out there…
As a reloading hobbyist I fuss over preparing the best load possible - weighing powder to the single kernal, annealing brass everytime, sizing brass and seating bullets to a consistency of less than .001. I practice at 1000 yards fine tuning the ammo and practicing form and spotting shots. I expect to be able to cover 5 shots on target with my hand at 1000 yards.
This last fall we camped in a wall tent for 18 days hunting elk in idaho. We had smoke and snow to contend with and a lot of other hunters. We burned a ton of miles hiking and a ton more traveling between areas in a SXS. On the 14th day 3 miles in on a hike we located a 5x7 bull a couple miles down the canyon and made our couple hour stalk to get within range. The shot itself went as expected dropping the bull where it stood. It took my son and I three days to get it back to camp. The last day we logged 23 miles shuttling meat starting at 7am and getting back to camp at 1am.
It was an epic hunt. The shot itself was a tiny part of the adventure. Whether it was 100 yards or 500 yards or more wouldn’t have mattered.
Practice a lot, know what I can and can’t do. If the opportunity shows at 50 yards or 1000 yard, I know there will be another stack of steaks in the deep freeze. That’s the most memorable part of the hunt, the meals that come afterward👍
Post by: HereDuckyDucky on December 23, 2024, 09:13:18 AM
RW
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 23, 2024, 09:30:31 AM
On the flip side, pick any guy out of the group I hunt with and stick a vital size target at 7-800. I would be 10x more confident in any one of them making a first round hit than I would soccer ball dude at 100. In fact I'd almost be shocked if they missed. But nobody calls soccer ball dude unethical when he puts one in the hind end of a walking buck at 250 because hey, that's huntin! Stuff happens, right? Only 3 more shots and he was DRT!
Shoot what you're comfortable with, practice as much as you can and quit worrying about what others are doing. And don't be soccer ball dude :chuckle:
Post by: pickardjw on December 23, 2024, 09:43:54 AM
Preparing to be capable if necessary? Absolutely.
Offhand - 100 yards
Sitting/kneeling unsupported - 150 yards
Sitting/kneeling supported - 300 yards
Prone - 500 yards
Yardages determined by timed shooting a modified Kraft drill. Also shoot out to 1000 to practice wind reading among other aspects. MV’s determined via Xero chrono, ballistics with the Sig BDX, Maven RS1.2’s on the rifles for dialing, buy factory ammo in bulk same lot #. Works well for me.
Off-season goal is to push my prone proficiency to 650 yards. Could have filled my WA tag if I was proficient at that distance this year. Will also work on the other shooting positions, offhand is so much tougher than most people think it is.
Post by: RileyH on December 23, 2024, 10:14:19 AM
Long distance hunting is not my cup of tea, it seems unfair to take the animals natural defenses entirely out of the equation with a 600+ yard shot like you see on YT regularly these days.
Post by: EnglishSetter on December 23, 2024, 11:22:35 AM
Being on the west side I don’t get a lot of opportunity to practice longer range shooting, and it hasn’t particularly been a handicap in the areas I hunt, as I primarily “still hunt” the big timber.
I don’t really have an issue with people taking long shots as long as they’re capable, but the problem is people that think they’re better than they are taking those shots. I think most of us have witnessed some idiot slinging lead across a canyon or clear cut trying to “walk it in” on a buck at some point.
Personally I’m a little bummed that rifle hunting has become sort of “unlimited class” by a lot of measures, I think in the end it will end up hurting us as a whole. As others have said, after a certain point it just becomes shooting rather than hunting, but the tricky part is figuring out what that point is. Laser rangefinders being so cheap these days and some of the newer chamberings with ultra-high BC has taken a lot of the learning curve away. With all the social media influencers touting long range shooting, it seems that the challenge often has turned from who can get the closest to an animal, to who can take one from furthest away.
Well said without drawing some arbitrary line in the sand.
Post by: jrebel on December 23, 2024, 11:42:40 AM
Post by: Cougeyes on December 23, 2024, 11:51:38 AM
Post by: Cougeyes on December 23, 2024, 11:57:32 AM
Are we seeing increased harvest rates? The only way I see it becoming detrimental to our hunting opportunities is if we see a substantial increase in harvest rates. I haven't looked in a while, but it appears the harvest states / rates have remained stable for many years.....actually dropping along side of the number of actual license buyers.
I don't think there's a way to get at whether longer-range shooting is increasing harvest rates unless in the harvest reporting there's a box that you provide the range at which you kill an animal.
Post by: jrebel on December 23, 2024, 12:13:35 PM
Are we seeing increased harvest rates? The only way I see it becoming detrimental to our hunting opportunities is if we see a substantial increase in harvest rates. I haven't looked in a while, but it appears the harvest states / rates have remained stable for many years.....actually dropping along side of the number of actual license buyers.
I don't think there's a way to get at whether longer-range shooting is increasing harvest rates unless in the harvest reporting there's a box that you provide the range at which you kill an animal.
Sure you can....look at 20-30 years worth of harvest stats and see if it has been increasing. My guess is...harvest stats have remained stable thus illustrating that the long range hunting hasn't changed anything. The guys shooting deer at long range were likely the same guys shooting deer at close range. The old saying....90% of deer are killed by 10% of the hunters. The other 10% of the deer are killed by the other 90% of hunters.
Post by: EnglishSetter on December 23, 2024, 12:28:45 PM
Are we seeing increased harvest rates? The only way I see it becoming detrimental to our hunting opportunities is if we see a substantial increase in harvest rates. I haven't looked in a while, but it appears the harvest states / rates have remained stable for many years.....actually dropping along side of the number of actual license buyers.
I don't think there's a way to get at whether longer-range shooting is increasing harvest rates unless in the harvest reporting there's a box that you provide the range at which you kill an animal.
Sure you can....look at 20-30 years worth of harvest stats and see if it has been increasing. My guess is...harvest stats have remained stable thus illustrating that the long range hunting hasn't changed anything. The guys shooting deer at long range were likely the same guys shooting deer at close range. The old saying....90% of deer are killed by 10% of the hunters. The other 10% of the deer are killed by the other 90% of hunters.
This assumes the regs are biology/game management driven. Too often they're emotion driven. "OMG he can kill Bambi's dad at 1000 yards. We need a law".
Harvest rate also doesn't have a way to account for lost game or misses.
Post by: dvolmer on December 23, 2024, 12:46:59 PM
Post by: Mulie87 on December 23, 2024, 12:58:10 PM
The technology, scopes and ballistics apps that we have today make it much easier than it was 15-20yrs ago. It’s not hard to do with the right equipment and practice.
Post by: Dan-o on December 23, 2024, 01:12:48 PM
But I learned from hard experience this year that shooting at any distance is a perishable skill.
I used to routinely drop elk at 400+ yards with no worry of a miss.
I did it year after year after year. I was very proficient to 500 yards, which I routinely practiced.
And then I kind of lost interest/disciple and quit practicing.
Fast forward to this year where i missed a nice buck twice before anchoring the Washington Muley I got.
I still regret taking those shots everyday since that hunt.
I'm glad I missed rather than wounding.
It was a serious wake up call for me.
I prided myself on only clean ethical harvests and this really bothers me. Regardless of the range, taking a shot you're not comfortable AND proficient in is just wrong.
Post by: baldopepper on December 23, 2024, 01:32:20 PM
Post by: OutHouse on December 23, 2024, 02:21:36 PM
Im sort of old school I guess. If conditions are right I can reach out to 400 yards if Im on my bi-pod and the wind is decent. Not to interested in taking shots past that. Most of my shots are 50-350 yards. Did shoot a rag horn bull once at 500 yards. Lots of hype, hunting shows, and expensive set ups that companies want to sell you to reach way out there. I have seen a couple of guys that do that decently. Im not to interested in it for myself. Sort of changes the sport for me but I guess others can determine what the sport is for them. I do think that you see a lot of edited rodeo's on some of those long range hunting shows. Im a big believer in bullet energy. I like to have at least 1200-1500 of ft/lbs at impact minimum. Takes a lot of energy to shoot an elk and kill it quickly. It amazes me that most of the long range shows I have seen that show big bulls dropping in their tracks at 600-1000 yards are all high spine shots. That is a tough shot for long range or any kind of shooting. I bet there is a bunch of never seen footage of shots in the butt or guts. That wouldn't help sell their $3000 scopes and $3000 rifles I would imagine that they are pushing on ya. When I see a buck or a bull at 400 plus yards, Im not thinking of how I can make the shot, but thinking, how can I close the distance. Thats hunting for me.
To each his own, but I feel the same way dvolmer does. The funny thing is that if I could shoot that far, I would get a lot more animals! However, I just like to play it safe given my skill level. Plus, I mostly hunt archery, which is, ahem, a far more difficult hunting method than modern rifle and requires indubitably more woodsman skills etc.. :chuckle: Kidding around fellas not trying to stir any reactions :hello:
Post by: EnglishSetter on December 23, 2024, 03:00:08 PM
What if you could shoot remotely from your living room at say a buck in Tejas, plugging in all the dope and hitting a key on your cell phone?
Post by: ducks4days on December 23, 2024, 03:27:23 PM
Kind of extension of the discussion, but....
What if you could shoot remotely from your living room at say a buck in Tejas, plugging in all the dope and hitting a key on your cell phone?
Thats already a thing. Anybody can spend tge money and do it. Most wont. A few will, enough to drive a demand for it.
Post by: Dan-o on December 23, 2024, 03:39:11 PM
Kind of extension of the discussion, but....
What if you could shoot remotely from your living room at say a buck in Tejas, plugging in all the dope and hitting a key on your cell phone?
Thats already a thing. Anybody can spend tge money and do it. Most wont. A few will, enough to drive a demand for it.
I read about this!!!!!
Imagine a hedge fund trader on Wall Street taking shooting a 200" Whitetail in Texas over his lunch break. All they have to do is write the check and hit the enter button.
Crazy.
Post by: wadu1 on December 23, 2024, 04:07:07 PM
Post by: Dirty Mike on December 23, 2024, 06:01:44 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 23, 2024, 06:06:25 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on December 23, 2024, 06:39:49 PM
Post by: baldopepper on December 23, 2024, 07:00:13 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 23, 2024, 07:49:23 PM
Kind of funny, one of my long range shooter friends ran into a buck while hiking to a spotting spot. Admitted the deer was only about 50-60 yards away and trotting thru a small opening. He admitted it kind of confused him a bit and when he finally got a shot off it was a clean miss. Decided he needed to spend a little time practicing his close range snap shots. Gave us a good laugh when a guy who hits the gong every shot at 1000 yards would miss a deer at 50 yards. Different skill set involved.Yep, gotta practice every possible scenario👍
Post by: pickardjw on December 23, 2024, 09:05:34 PM
This assumes the regs are biology/game management driven. Too often they're emotion driven. "OMG he can kill Bambi's dad at 1000 yards. We need a law".
Bambi’s dad was a stud though.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 24, 2024, 06:49:18 AM
Kind of funny, one of my long range shooter friends ran into a buck while hiking to a spotting spot. Admitted the deer was only about 50-60 yards away and trotting thru a small opening. He admitted it kind of confused him a bit and when he finally got a shot off it was a clean miss. Decided he needed to spend a little time practicing his close range snap shots. Gave us a good laugh when a guy who hits the gong every shot at 1000 yards would miss a deer at 50 yards. Different skill set involved.
Did you teach him how to stop a deer when they are moving?
Post by: baldopepper on December 24, 2024, 07:43:09 AM
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2024, 07:52:40 AM
Over the years the only way I've found to for sure get a spooked deer to stop is a well placed bullet. Trotting at 50 yards I've seldom had a problem getting em to stop, but learned to shoot quickly hunting the thick oak brush in Utah. Kinda like jump shooting ducks.
The deer around my woods , whistling, clapping,or grunting,meh meh, all that . Most mature bucks will run faster . 😂
They don't stop.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 24, 2024, 08:11:56 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 24, 2024, 08:28:28 AM
Over the years the only way I've found to for sure get a spooked deer to stop is a well placed bullet. Trotting at 50 yards I've seldom had a problem getting em to stop, but learned to shoot quickly hunting the thick oak brush in Utah. Kinda like jump shooting ducks.
One could make the argument that taking snap shots on moving animals in thick cover is much more likely to result in poor shot placement than taking your time, setting up properly and dialing on a stationary un-spooked critter at 600 yards. If you're confident in your skillset to do so then more power to you, but that's a pretty good illustration of how ethics isn't a black and white issue and how it all boils down to the individual and what they're comfortable with. IMO 90% of the hate against "long range" hunting is simply one generation being uncomfortable with something they're not used to because they didn't grow up with it being the norm.
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2024, 08:53:27 AM
Post by: baldopepper on December 24, 2024, 08:58:38 AM
Personally not a long range shooter hater. If that's how you enjoy hunting, that's fine with me. You are correct it's personal thing. I started going hunting in the fifties. Very few hunters had scopes and if they did they were not variable, usually 4 power and fogged up constantly. The equipment we used simply didn't allow long range shooting. You either got good at fairly short range,open sight shooting or you didn't get your deer or elk. Heck, if the gear to shoot long range had been reasonably available we'd have used it, so I don't resent the hunters who use it now that it is available. Personally just am comfortable and enjoy hunting the way I grew up doing it. Now days, for me, the hunting experience means way more than the actually shooting part anyway.Over the years the only way I've found to for sure get a spooked deer to stop is a well placed bullet. Trotting at 50 yards I've seldom had a problem getting em to stop, but learned to shoot quickly hunting the thick oak brush in Utah. Kinda like jump shooting ducks.
One could make the argument that taking snap shots on moving animals in thick cover is much more likely to result in poor shot placement than taking your time, setting up properly and dialing on a stationary un-spooked critter at 600 yards. If you're confident in your skillset to do so then more power to you, but that's a pretty good illustration of how ethics isn't a black and white issue and how it all boils down to the individual and what they're comfortable with. IMO 90% of the hate against "long range" hunting is simply one generation being uncomfortable with something they're not used to because they didn't grow up with it being the norm.
Post by: boneaddict on December 24, 2024, 09:09:33 AM
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2024, 09:20:21 AM
I remember those days.Personally not a long range shooter hater. If that's how you enjoy hunting, that's fine with me. You are correct it's personal thing. I started going hunting in the fifties. Very few hunters had scopes and if they did they were not variable, usually 4 power and fogged up constantly. The equipment we used simply didn't allow long range shooting. You either got good at fairly short range,open sight shooting or you didn't get your deer or elk. Heck, if the gear to shoot long range had been reasonably available we'd have used it, so I don't resent the hunters who use it now that it is available. Personally just am comfortable and enjoy hunting the way I grew up doing it. Now days, for me, the hunting experience means way more than the actually shooting part anyway.Over the years the only way I've found to for sure get a spooked deer to stop is a well placed bullet. Trotting at 50 yards I've seldom had a problem getting em to stop, but learned to shoot quickly hunting the thick oak brush in Utah. Kinda like jump shooting ducks.
One could make the argument that taking snap shots on moving animals in thick cover is much more likely to result in poor shot placement than taking your time, setting up properly and dialing on a stationary un-spooked critter at 600 yards. If you're confident in your skillset to do so then more power to you, but that's a pretty good illustration of how ethics isn't a black and white issue and how it all boils down to the individual and what they're comfortable with. IMO 90% of the hate against "long range" hunting is simply one generation being uncomfortable with something they're not used to because they didn't grow up with it being the norm.
I'm not an old timer,but I grew up hunting with a few.
One guy I remember when I was a kid,walk around with his 30-30.
Hammer cocked all the way back ,ready to rock all the time.
Quick shots at closer ranges was how tags got filled.
Safe on rifles slowed you down.
Post by: bearhunter99 on December 24, 2024, 09:55:36 AM
With a bow I limit it to 60 yards. A 60 yard shot with my bow feels like nothing after practicing to 100 yards but even though I can put all my arrows in a 4" circle at 100 I would never shoot at an animal that far - just to many variables.
As many on here have said there are too any people that shoot father than they should and for some 100 yards is too far with a rifle.... Too much influence on social media and hunting programs give people a false sense of what can be accomplished. Couple that with some dealers telling guys that if you buy "this" expensive rifle you can kill anything out to 1000 yards....
Post by: baldopepper on December 24, 2024, 10:30:01 AM
Post by: Geno on December 24, 2024, 12:07:48 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 24, 2024, 12:34:53 PM
I had done some long range shooting on milk jugs at 1000 yards and hit them, but a deer is a whole different story when moving.
The herd of deer moved out of the bowl I was glassing because a couple other guys had pushed them out, they followed them into the timber and got a really nice buck with lots of trash on him.
But the one I saw was a huge typical 4x4.
Post by: Stein on December 24, 2024, 12:58:25 PM
Post by: Wingin it on December 24, 2024, 01:54:25 PM
One of these days when I pull an antelope tag I think the longer ranges may come into play. I think we owe it to the animals to get as close as we reasonably can to minimize the chances of wounding and possibly not recovering them. Just my two cents.
Post by: brokentrail on December 24, 2024, 02:31:27 PM
Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?
Yep. I enjoy my time out there even if I'm not carrying a weapon. I spend a lot of time scouting and enjoy it just as much as the actual hunting, but the result of hunting success sure tastes better!
Post by: JBBeck on December 24, 2024, 03:36:17 PM
Post by: kodiak06 on December 24, 2024, 08:10:08 PM
I usually bow hunt and just use my gun to fill elk damage tags
Post by: Crunchy on December 24, 2024, 08:32:23 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on December 25, 2024, 04:20:40 AM
Post by: Okanagan on December 25, 2024, 09:05:39 AM
Plans and expectations had best not be rigid when it comes to wild animals. My grandson dialed in a long range rig and was confident to 600 yards-- and then two years in a row in mostly wide open alpine, killed a bear at 15 yards with that rifle. :)
Post by: callturner on December 25, 2024, 12:45:27 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 25, 2024, 01:35:47 PM
Post by: Doublelunger on December 25, 2024, 02:14:04 PM
Post by: b23 on December 25, 2024, 04:38:15 PM
Revaluated again that there was no way I'd get to him. I had to walk away.
The younger me almost let my enthusiasm get the better of me on a decent size bull. It wasn't a super long distance shot, just under 650yds, but well within my comfort zone. He had no clue I was watching him there was nobody remotely near where we were and I had plenty of time to set up. In my head I was practically notching the tag but, most likely because I did have so much time to set up for this, I started thinking about the reality of retrieving it and started really evaluating how I could reasonably do this by myself. The more I thought about it the more it became evident to me this would be a really bad idea and I let him walk.
I almost prefer shooting long to up close because animals typically react different once they're shot but my first thought is always how well can I retrieve this animal in a reasonable time frame
Post by: boneaddict on December 25, 2024, 04:46:06 PM
Revaluated again that there was no way I'd get to him. I had to walk away.
The younger me almost let my enthusiasm get the better of me on a decent size bull. It wasn't a super long distance shot, just under 650yds, but well within my comfort zone. He had no clue I was watching him there was nobody remotely near where we were and I had plenty of time to set up. In my head I was practically notching the tag but, most likely because I did have so much time to set up for this, I started thinking about the reality of retrieving it and started really evaluating how I could reasonably do this by myself. The more I thought about it the more it became evident to me this would be a really bad idea and I let him walk.
I almost prefer shooting long to up close because animals typically react different once they're shot but my first thought is always how well can I retrieve this animal in a reasonable time frame
Idabooner used to say “if you shoot an animal there you better just take your salt shaker and fork because you are going to have to eat him there.”
Post by: baldopepper on December 25, 2024, 04:50:45 PM
.
Post by: dvolmer on December 25, 2024, 05:31:23 PM
Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?. I would vote for that in a heartbeat! ATV’s should be used to retrieve game at best. Hate them things. Nothing worse than having guys ride all over the place chasing deer and noisy. Just an extension of road-hunting. No need to bait in my opinion and never have. 4 power scope would be a small inconvenience but I used one on my 30-06 for about 10 years back in the 80’s-90’s. Shot just as many deer back then as I do now.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 25, 2024, 06:02:38 PM
Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?. I would vote for that in a heartbeat! ATV’s should be used to retrieve game at best. Hate them things. Nothing worse than having guys ride all over the place chasing deer and noisy. Just an extension of road-hunting. No need to bait in my opinion and never have. 4 power scope would be a small inconvenience but I used one on my 30-06 for about 10 years back in the 80’s-90’s. Shot just as many deer back then as I do now.
:yeah:
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 25, 2024, 06:15:11 PM
300 yards is long ways, about a hundred yards farther than I am currently comfortable shooting and well out of distance my targets should be aware I am within a hundred miles.
At the same time I don't pretend to understand the limits of others or wish to impose any restrictions on them. :dunno:
Post by: baldopepper on December 25, 2024, 06:23:01 PM
Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?. I would vote for that in a heartbeat! ATV’s should be used to retrieve game at best. Hate them things. Nothing worse than having guys ride all over the place chasing deer and noisy. Just an extension of road-hunting. No need to bait in my opinion and never have. 4 power scope would be a small inconvenience but I used one on my 30-06 for about 10 years back in the 80’s-90’s. Shot just as many deer back then as I do now.
:yeah:
Kinda like "the old days" which so many wish they'd seen, but seems like maybe they really wouldn't have liked them.
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 25, 2024, 06:26:56 PM
Can we get rid of inline muzzys and compound bows to..
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2024, 07:19:13 PM
Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?I miss those days. Before rangefinders became available 300 yards was a long shot because it could be 200 or 400 yards. With 30-06 ballistics that difference could result in a missed or wounded animal. At 300 yards a 3x-9x or even fixed 4x scope was sufficient.
Doubling the distance one can shoot quadruples the shooting area. A circle with a radius of 600 yards has four times the area of a circle with a 300 yard radius.
Post by: mountainman on December 25, 2024, 07:45:44 PM
Good point!Hypothetically, if they made it illegal to use any magnifying apparatus above 4 power, restricted possession of firearms in an atv, and no baiting during hunting seasons would you still go hunting?I miss those days. Before rangefinders became available 300 yards was a long shot because it could be 200 or 400 yards. With 30-06 ballistics that difference could result in a missed or wounded animal. At 300 yards a 3x-9x or even fixed 4x scope was sufficient.
Doubling the distance one can shoot quadruples the shooting area. A circle with a radius of 600 yards has four times the area of a circle with a 300 yard radius.
Post by: baldopepper on December 25, 2024, 07:51:40 PM
Post by: dvolmer on December 25, 2024, 09:40:10 PM
In 25 years these will be the old days for many of the younger hunters. They'll talk about the days when you used those adjustable scopes, how you used to use spotting scopes to see animals because you actually had to see em to shoot em, you actually drove around on those bumpy old quads and sxs, they'll talk about how there were public places you could hunt and buy out of state licenses for a couple grand or less. They'll hate the use of heat seeking bullets that can be laser guided from miles away, They'll complain that too many hunters sit in their office and kill game they want entered in the record book just using their communicator, they'll bore their kids with tales of their good ole days and how hard hunting was back in 2024. If you'd have told me when I was twenty how hunting would change to what it is now, I probably would have scoffed just like most reading this now are.I doubt there will be much left of hunting for the common guy in 25 years. What I have seen in decline in Washington State in the last 25 years cant be duplicated and still survive. Wyoming max preference points will be at 44 points (good luck getting in on that!). The way they are preaching on this CWD, all the deer, elk, moose, and antelope will have died and be gone and half of the hunters would have died of CWD when it jumps to humans or so they say if you truly believe what the biologists are saying on how it is spread.