Post by: A. Cole on December 22, 2024, 07:25:30 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/licenses/roadkill-salvage
Post by: Dan-o on December 22, 2024, 07:31:37 PM
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on December 22, 2024, 07:36:13 PM
Post by: A. Cole on December 22, 2024, 07:41:53 PM
I agree that it's a waste, and I really don't understand the need for this restriction.
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
The website says that the commission set the salvage permit rules in 2016, whether this specific part or not, I don't know. It talks about Federal laws prohibiting handling whitetail, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the salvage of blacktail.
Post by: A. Cole on December 22, 2024, 07:43:09 PM
Have you looked at the map showing salage permit locations? Doesn't make sense to the rule when it shows locations in those counties.
The website specifically names those counties, so I'd assume the map is wrong? Still legal to salvage elk, just not deer.
Post by: bigtex on December 22, 2024, 09:01:37 PM
The rule is this way to avoid people inadvertently picking up federally protected whitetails. Not everybody knows the difference, lowest denominator....I agree that it's a waste, and I really don't understand the need for this restriction.
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
The website says that the commission set the salvage permit rules in 2016, whether this specific part or not, I don't know. It talks about Federal laws prohibiting handling whitetail, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the salvage of blacktail.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: Dan-o on December 22, 2024, 09:04:40 PM
The rule is this way to avoid people inadvertently picking up federally protected whitetails. Not everybody knows the difference, lowest denominator....I agree that it's a waste, and I really don't understand the need for this restriction.
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
The website says that the commission set the salvage permit rules in 2016, whether this specific part or not, I don't know. It talks about Federal laws prohibiting handling whitetail, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the salvage of blacktail.
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@bigtex
I assumed that was the reason, but what's the harm in picking up a dead Columbian Whitetail?
If a human doesn't scavenge it, scavengers will.
Post by: bigtex on December 22, 2024, 09:08:58 PM
Federal law prohibits possession of a species listed under the Endangered Species Act.The rule is this way to avoid people inadvertently picking up federally protected whitetails. Not everybody knows the difference, lowest denominator....I agree that it's a waste, and I really don't understand the need for this restriction.
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
The website says that the commission set the salvage permit rules in 2016, whether this specific part or not, I don't know. It talks about Federal laws prohibiting handling whitetail, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the salvage of blacktail.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
@bigtex
I assumed that was the reason, but what's the harm in picking up a dead Columbian Whitetail?
If a human doesn't scavenge it, scavengers will.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: Dan-o on December 22, 2024, 09:14:34 PM
Federal law prohibits possession of a species listed under the Endangered Species Act.The rule is this way to avoid people inadvertently picking up federally protected whitetails. Not everybody knows the difference, lowest denominator....I agree that it's a waste, and I really don't understand the need for this restriction.
Does the commission set these rules?
I'm sure you'd need to work with the rule makers to see about getting the rule changed.
The website says that the commission set the salvage permit rules in 2016, whether this specific part or not, I don't know. It talks about Federal laws prohibiting handling whitetail, but that doesn't really seem relevant to the salvage of blacktail.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
@bigtex
I assumed that was the reason, but what's the harm in picking up a dead Columbian Whitetail?
If a human doesn't scavenge it, scavengers will.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
:tup: :tup:
Thanks.
Post by: A. Cole on December 22, 2024, 09:50:00 PM
Now, if WDFW decided they needed people in Columbia wt areas to drive 5 miles/hr slower, that might increase the population. But this law does absolutely nothing except prevent people from filling their freezers with good meat that would otherwise rot or be eaten by coyotes.
Post by: bigtex on December 22, 2024, 10:33:25 PM
I get the stated intention of not wanting people to harm the endangered whitetail population, but the law does nothing to protect them. It's like outlawing black bear hunting because you might mistake it for a grizzly, except that the grizzly is already dead, at which point you aren't harming any population. You could also do this with a coyote/wolf. It's ridiculous. If a whitetail on the side of the road is already dead, even if someone mistook it for a blacktail, which would be a real low denominator if WDFW put a warning with the salvage permits on their website, you still wouldn't be harming the wt population.You're getting caught up in the "harming the population" aspect. Yes, the Endangered whitetail would be dead, the harm is already done. But the point is the law does not allow you to possess the deer, even if you didn't kill it. The simple possession of the deer (or its parts) are illegal. It's the same as if you saw an eagle feather on the ground, you can't possess it, doesn't matter if you killed it or not.
Now, if WDFW decided they needed people in Columbia wt areas to drive 5 miles/hr slower, that might increase the population. But this law does absolutely nothing except prevent people from filling their freezers with good meat that would otherwise rot or be eaten by coyotes.
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Post by: A. Cole on December 22, 2024, 10:47:16 PM
I get the stated intention of not wanting people to harm the endangered whitetail population, but the law does nothing to protect them. It's like outlawing black bear hunting because you might mistake it for a grizzly, except that the grizzly is already dead, at which point you aren't harming any population. You could also do this with a coyote/wolf. It's ridiculous. If a whitetail on the side of the road is already dead, even if someone mistook it for a blacktail, which would be a real low denominator if WDFW put a warning with the salvage permits on their website, you still wouldn't be harming the wt population.You're getting caught up in the "harming the population" aspect. Yes, the Endangered whitetail would be dead, the harm is already done. But the point is the law does not allow you to possess the deer, even if you didn't kill it. The simple possession of the deer (or its parts) are illegal. It's the same as if you saw an eagle feather on the ground, you can't possess it, doesn't matter if you killed it or not.
Now, if WDFW decided they needed people in Columbia wt areas to drive 5 miles/hr slower, that might increase the population. But this law does absolutely nothing except prevent people from filling their freezers with good meat that would otherwise rot or be eaten by coyotes.
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My sarcastic question here isn't directed at you, bigtex, but at WDFW and our wannabe authoritarian gov. Should WDFW make picking feathers up off the ground illegal, because someone might mistakenly pick up an eagle feather?
(Not that I think possessing eagle feathers is immoral...)
Post by: EnglishSetter on December 22, 2024, 11:17:41 PM
Someone, somewhere will exploit any loophole. Vehicle can be the method of kill or mask the method of kill.
"I found it on the side of the road like that" is harder to counter than "you have an illegal species". So it's an enforcement tool.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 23, 2024, 06:16:56 AM
I see it like this:This is what I’m thinking as well.
Someone, somewhere will exploit any loophole. Vehicle can be the method of kill or mask the method of kill.
"I found it on the side of the road like that" is harder to counter than "you have an illegal species". So it's an enforcement tool.
Post by: slavenoid on December 23, 2024, 06:41:20 AM
Post by: bigtex on December 23, 2024, 08:05:37 AM
Well to answer your question, the answer is in most instances picking up any feather is already illegal under federal law.I get the stated intention of not wanting people to harm the endangered whitetail population, but the law does nothing to protect them. It's like outlawing black bear hunting because you might mistake it for a grizzly, except that the grizzly is already dead, at which point you aren't harming any population. You could also do this with a coyote/wolf. It's ridiculous. If a whitetail on the side of the road is already dead, even if someone mistook it for a blacktail, which would be a real low denominator if WDFW put a warning with the salvage permits on their website, you still wouldn't be harming the wt population.You're getting caught up in the "harming the population" aspect. Yes, the Endangered whitetail would be dead, the harm is already done. But the point is the law does not allow you to possess the deer, even if you didn't kill it. The simple possession of the deer (or its parts) are illegal. It's the same as if you saw an eagle feather on the ground, you can't possess it, doesn't matter if you killed it or not.
Now, if WDFW decided they needed people in Columbia wt areas to drive 5 miles/hr slower, that might increase the population. But this law does absolutely nothing except prevent people from filling their freezers with good meat that would otherwise rot or be eaten by coyotes.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
My sarcastic question here isn't directed at you, bigtex, but at WDFW and our wannabe authoritarian gov. Should WDFW make picking feathers up off the ground illegal, because someone might mistakenly pick up an eagle feather?
(Not that I think possessing eagle feathers is immoral...)
Any bird listed under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which is essentially every bird other than those we consider upland game birds, it is illegal to possess their parts (aka feathers) unless you obtained them via lawful hunting activities.
So yes if you see a goose feather, hawk feather, even crow feather on the ground it is unlawful under federal law to possess it.
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Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 09:05:20 AM
I see it like this:
Someone, somewhere will exploit any loophole. Vehicle can be the method of kill or mask the method of kill.
"I found it on the side of the road like that" is harder to counter than "you have an illegal species". So it's an enforcement tool.
In order to legally salvage a deer, a person must go to the WDFW website linked above and submit an application. If WDFW put a warning there about columbian wt, no one would have an excuse for salvaging them, just like they have no excuse right now, because the WDFW warning on the website says that you may not salvage any deer at all. The only thing WDFW would need to change is wording their warning to say "No salvage of columbian wt" rather than "No salvage of any deer."
Anyone can say "I didn't know it was illegal to pick up deer off the side of the road," whether or not it is legal to salvage blacktail.
Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 09:07:52 AM
Pretty easy to see why it's the law. They don't want to encourage anyone to get sideways with the feds. With that being said it hasn't stopped me from grabbing blacktails. I would hope game wardens and judges have better things to do.
Good on you for not letting good meat be wasted, but it would be best if we could do what was moral and legal, rather than moral and illegal.
Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 09:11:11 AM
Well to answer your question, the answer is in most instances picking up any feather is already illegal under federal law.I get the stated intention of not wanting people to harm the endangered whitetail population, but the law does nothing to protect them. It's like outlawing black bear hunting because you might mistake it for a grizzly, except that the grizzly is already dead, at which point you aren't harming any population. You could also do this with a coyote/wolf. It's ridiculous. If a whitetail on the side of the road is already dead, even if someone mistook it for a blacktail, which would be a real low denominator if WDFW put a warning with the salvage permits on their website, you still wouldn't be harming the wt population.You're getting caught up in the "harming the population" aspect. Yes, the Endangered whitetail would be dead, the harm is already done. But the point is the law does not allow you to possess the deer, even if you didn't kill it. The simple possession of the deer (or its parts) are illegal. It's the same as if you saw an eagle feather on the ground, you can't possess it, doesn't matter if you killed it or not.
Now, if WDFW decided they needed people in Columbia wt areas to drive 5 miles/hr slower, that might increase the population. But this law does absolutely nothing except prevent people from filling their freezers with good meat that would otherwise rot or be eaten by coyotes.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
My sarcastic question here isn't directed at you, bigtex, but at WDFW and our wannabe authoritarian gov. Should WDFW make picking feathers up off the ground illegal, because someone might mistakenly pick up an eagle feather?
(Not that I think possessing eagle feathers is immoral...)
Any bird listed under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which is essentially every bird other than those we consider upland game birds, it is illegal to possess their parts (aka feathers) unless you obtained them via lawful hunting activities.
So yes if you see a goose feather, hawk feather, even crow feather on the ground it is unlawful under federal law to possess it.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
I guess I've been a lawbreaker from my youth, and will continue to be one until I die. God made man free; death to tyrants. I see these tiny laws as examples of the total system and if we want to change the whole system, we might should start small and work our way up.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 23, 2024, 09:52:50 AM
Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 11:07:37 AM
If you observe a dead BT deer in these areas, contact the local Division 5 office and see if you can get an LE to approve you taking the critter. They don't like to see game wasted either. It might be as easy as a few pics of the animal.That's a good idea.
Also, Ghost Hunter is totally correct, there have been a lot of permits handed out for deer in those counties, even though it is technically against their laws.
Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 12:28:19 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 23, 2024, 01:04:10 PM
Alrighty, I sent a petition in to WDFW for a rule change to allow for the salvage of BT so we will see what happens. Thanks everyone for the discussion, and to be clear, I mean no disrespect to any of you, I simply get heated sometimes during discussions.
You remind me a lot of my sons.
And I mean that as a compliment.
Post by: A. Cole on December 23, 2024, 03:31:02 PM
Alrighty, I sent a petition in to WDFW for a rule change to allow for the salvage of BT so we will see what happens. Thanks everyone for the discussion, and to be clear, I mean no disrespect to any of you, I simply get heated sometimes during discussions.
You remind me a lot of my sons.
And I mean that as a compliment.
Thanks Dan-o, that is kind.