Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: hdshot on January 29, 2025, 04:39:54 PM
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Hope this federal buyout doesn’t cause any harm to our national refuges. Not a road anyone wants to travel because we know what has happened in a temporary government shutdown. Access denied and gated shut. Not a prediction but very bad for the general public if refuge land is sold off and leases abolished. Not sure what the budget is but seen 4 billion dollars for the U.S. fish and wildlife this year.
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This is being discussed as a buyout but isn’t. It’s a trap and doubt more than 2% of the federal work force will fall for it. I don’t know anyone and haven’t heard anyone through co workers that has replied “resign” yet.
Now, if legislation is passed and a decent looking severance package is offered with benefits, our public lands may be in trouble.
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Yeah, it’s is not a buyout. What will happen is the government CR expires in March, the resignation is date to take effect 9/15/20205. The DoD, Border, Postal Service and maybe a couple more didn’t get the offer, and will get funded or deemed essential. Everyone else will likey not be funded for the remainder of the year. Those that take the “buyout” will quit 5 days before the new fiscal year 10/1/25. They will never see any of that money from March thru September. That at least what I see happening with the “buyout”. It should also be mentioned how poorly it was distributed and the OPM FAQ page is joke. Looks like AI or an idiot wrote it. It is simply a scare tactic. Having said all that, I did recommend to a few people I know retiring next month they should try it and see if it pans out.
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Sounds like sumpin worth following. What exactly are we discussing? News hasn't been a priority for a few months
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Why is it a trap?
Honest question.
I know very little about it.
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the fact that there is no budget for this, and trump actually doesnt have the authority to do this should say something.
if people accept it they're idiots because there is a higher liklihood than not that the 8 month severance package isnt seen.
he promised cheaper groceries then admitted he couldnt do that also once everyone fell for that one so..... :chuckle: :dunno:
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Here’s the link to read what the joke of a deal was sent by “OPM” to many people. They’re bypassing all agency heads sending emails directly to employees. https://www.opm.gov/fork
Also, I know nobody is aware, but social media communications from public land agencies basically is nixed until further notice.
I’m not meaning to turn this table political, but hunters, anglers, and all stake holders in public lands will start to feel the effects of these actions coming out of the Oval Office.
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This is being discussed as a buyout but isn’t. It’s a trap and doubt more than 2% of the federal work force will fall for it. I don’t know anyone and haven’t heard anyone through co workers that has replied “resign” yet.
Now, if legislation is passed and a decent looking severance package is offered with benefits, our public lands may be in trouble.
It’s amazing how much staff and funding is needed for public lands especially for the general public to have access for waterfowl hunting. If Federal defunding happened to national refuges, it would be catastrophic for most.
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Also, probationary employees are starting to feel worried. Often times those ground workers you see opening or closing gates, doing maintenance, and cleaning toilets are probationary employees. To potentially target them next in my opinion will be a disaster.
Everyone should keep informed and start lobbying for their federal lands.
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Submitted and was approved for my DoD CIV SVE retirement (NOV last year) for the end of May this year, 20 years active Army and 21 years CIV SVC is enough. That said “we all” received the memo about early resignation.
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Submitted and was approved for my DoD CIV SVE retirement (NOV last year) for the end of May this year, 20 years active Army and 21 years CIV SVC is enough. That said “we all” received the memo about early resignation.
Interesting my old POCs from DoD did not receive this resignation. At least no yesterday evening. But, I do remember it taking some time to get through those email walls.
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Sounds like sumpin worth following. What exactly are we discussing? News hasn't been a priority for a few months
This is DOGE taking OPM captive, bypassing all chain of command and making promises of payment from Feb-Sept for resignation. There a lot of issues with it, but the biggest ones are they done have the funds, congress would have to approve it. Some about to retire within the month might go for it. But, this is a good way to weed the dumbest out of the federal services. Elon pulled the same stunt at Twitter, and issued basically the same “Fork in the Road”. There are a lot of unknowns at this point in time, cause stuff is being hidden from all sectors of the federal services.
But, for anything federal lands I would be worried. Camping, rec areas are in danger. Seasonal employees that do ALL the boots on the ground stuff that goes unnoticed is in jeopardy. These are the folks that are most likely to walk out. Long term I’d be worried about BLM in particular as the Utah hearing approaches. That could open the flood gates for a federal land sell off. Hopefully, I am just being paranoid.
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Submitted and was approved for my DoD CIV SVE retirement (NOV last year) for the end of May this year, 20 years active Army and 21 years CIV SVC is enough. That said “we all” received the memo about early resignation.
Interesting my old POCs from DoD did not receive this resignation. At least no yesterday evening. But, I do remember it taking some time to get through those email walls.
I got my email late yesterday so I say it this morning. I know a couple people that are thinking of taking it. Mainly because they are tired of stuff and just want to get out.
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Sounds like the Oval Office just wants to get rid of dead weight, people that know they haven’t been hired because of their skills but their sexual preference, color ( or lack there of) , sounds like if you earned your position you have nothing to worry about. Am I reading it wrong?
Trump 2025!!
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Guess we will find out, lot of bark and little bite is the MO.
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Didn’t read all replies
Illegal mean illegals
Deported is minimum
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5-10% haircut is a good start. Until it's MY sacred cow, right?
Aren't these agencies already funded?
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Agencies are not fully funded because a budget has yet to be passed. The government is operating of a continuing resolution which is using last year numbers. Oh someone said something about seasonal that got axed before the fiscal year started in Sept. No season most likely for the next 2 years with fire being exempt. Yes that email was a joke. I ran it up my chain because I thought it was not legit. It also ties in returning back to the office. I am eligible for early retirement in June which the email states if you do what they are calling a differed resignation they will pay you full benefits and pay till the end of the fiscal year. It says if you eligible in that time you can take your retirement. To me to much legal traps in this whole thing. They are hoping to reduce the federal work force by 5-10% with this move. Funny that someone mentioned Elon doing this with Twitter. He was at OPM head quarters the day before or the day of when this email was sent. @Naches Sportsman didn't know about the social media but was told no more all call meeting unless it is operational or project related.
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Reorganization and cutting dead wei g ht is going to be worrisome. Painful for some and a nuisance for others. I belive we are past the point of turning everything around with out some shared pain. Embrace the suck.
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Reorganization and cutting dead wei g ht is going to be worrisome. Painful for some and a nuisance for others. I belive we are past the point of turning everything around with out some shared pain. Embrace the suck.
:yeah:
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Submitted and was approved for my DoD CIV SVE retirement (NOV last year) for the end of May this year, 20 years active Army and 21 years CIV SVC is enough. That said “we all” received the memo about early resignation.
Interesting my old POCs from DoD did not receive this resignation. At least no yesterday evening. But, I do remember it taking some time to get through those email walls.
I got my email late yesterday so I say it this morning. I know a couple people that are thinking of taking it. Mainly because they are tired of stuff and just want to get out.
Just so you know, DoD is exempt from the offer. There is an FAQ page on OPM and lists the exempted agency. See you are local to PO so guessing you might be DOD.
I am DoD but the FAQ I got this morning doesn't say DoD is excluded. National security. I haven't seen anything showing who is considered national security yet. It doesn't really matter to me as I am not taking it. DoD is exempt from the current hiring freeze though.
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I don't want to tie up the OP post because we are getting off track from the original subject. All I have to say is if I make it 3 years 11 months I will never work for the government again.
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Here is a copy of the official email.
Official guidance so far has been that this action is aimed at remote/teleworkers who choose not to return to the office. Rather than force them out and deal with unions and administrative resistance a severance package has been offered. By voluntarily choosing to resign employees who may not have been retirement eligible were given an alternative and a transition period.
During the first week of his administration, President Trump issued a number of directives concerning the federal workforce. Among those directives, the President required that employees return to in-person work, restored accountability for employees who have policy-making authority, restored accountability for senior career executives, and reformed the federal hiring process to focus on merit. As a result of the above orders, the reform of the federal workforce will be significant.
The reformed federal workforce will be built around four pillars:
1) Return to Office: The substantial majority of federal employees who have been working remotely since Covid will be required to return to their physical offices five days a week. Going forward, we also expect our physical offices to undergo meaningful consolidation and divestitures, potentially resulting in physical office relocations for a number of federal workers.
2) Performance culture: The federal workforce should be comprised of the best America has to offer. We will insist on excellence at every level — our performance standards will be updated to reward and promote those that exceed expectations and address in a fair and open way those who do not meet the high standards which the taxpayers of this country have a right to demand.
3) More streamlined and flexible workforce: While a few agencies and even branches of the military are likely to see increases in the size of their workforce, the majority of federal agencies are likely to be downsized through restructurings, realignments, and reductions in force. These actions are likely to include the use of furloughs and the reclassification to at-will status for a substantial number of federal employees.
4) Enhanced standards of conduct: The federal workforce should be comprised of employees who are reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and who strive for excellence in their daily work. Employees will be subject to enhanced standards of suitability and conduct as we move forward. Employees who engage in unlawful behavior or other misconduct will be prioritized for appropriate investigation and discipline, including termination.
Each of the pillars outlined above will be pursued in accordance with applicable law, consistent with your agency's policies, and to the extent permitted under relevant collective-bargaining agreements.
If you choose to remain in your current position, we thank you for your renewed focus on serving the American people to the best of your abilities and look forward to working together as part of an improved federal workforce. At this time, we cannot give you full assurance regarding the certainty of your position or agency but should your position be eliminated you will be treated with dignity and will be afforded the protections in place for such positions.
If you choose not to continue in your current role in the federal workforce, we thank you for your service to your country and you will be provided with a dignified, fair departure from the federal government utilizing a deferred resignation program. This program begins effective January 28 and is available to all federal employees until February 6. If you resign under this program, you will retain all pay and benefits regardless of your daily workload and will be exempted from all applicable in-person work requirements until September 30, 2025 (or earlier if you choose to accelerate your resignation for any reason). The details of this separation plan can be found below.
Whichever path you choose, we thank you for your service to The United States of America.
*********************************************************************
Upon review of the below deferred resignation letter, if you wish to resign:
1) Select “Reply” to this email. You must reply from your government account. A reply from an account other than your government account will not be accepted.
2) Type the word “Resign” into the body of this reply email. Hit “Send”.
THE LAST DAY TO ACCEPT THE DEFERRED RESIGNATION PROGRAM IS FEBRUARY 6, 2025.
Deferred resignation is available to all full-time federal employees except for military personnel of the armed forces, employees of the U.S. Postal Service, those in positions related to immigration enforcement and national security, and those in any other positions specifically excluded by your employing agency.
DEFERRED RESIGNATION LETTER
January 28, 2025
Please accept this letter as my formal resignation from employment with my employing agency, effective September 30, 2025. I understand that I have the right to accelerate, but not extend, my resignation date if I wish to take advantage of the deferred resignation program. I also understand that if I am (or become) eligible for early or normal retirement before my resignation date, that I retain the right to elect early or normal retirement (once eligible) at any point prior to my resignation date.
Given my impending resignation, I understand I will be exempt from any “Return to Office” requirements pursuant to recent directives and that I will maintain my current compensation and retain all existing benefits (including but not limited to retirement accruals) until my final resignation date.
I am certain of my decision to resign and my choice to resign is fully voluntary. I understand my employing agency will likely make adjustments in response to my resignation including moving, eliminating, consolidating, reassigning my position and tasks, reducing my official duties, and/or placing me on paid administrative leave until my resignation date.
I am committed to ensuring a smooth transition during my remaining time at my employing agency. Accordingly, I will assist my employing agency with completing reasonable and customary tasks and processes to facilitate my departure.
I understand that my acceptance of this offer will be sent to the Office of Personnel Management (“OPM”) which will then share it with my agency employer. I hereby consent to OPM receiving, reviewing, and forwarding my acceptance.
*********************************************************************
Upon submission of your resignation, you will receive a confirmation email acknowledging receipt of your email. Any replies to this email shall be for the exclusive use of accepting the deferred resignation letter. Any other replies to this email will not be reviewed, forwarded, or retained other than as required by applicable federal records laws.
Once your resignation is validly sent and received, the human resources department of your employing agency will contact you to complete additional documentation, if any.
OPM is authorized to send this email under Executive Order 9830 and 5 U.S.C. §§ 301, 1103, 1104, 2951, 3301, 6504, 8347, and 8461. OPM intends to use your response to assist in federal workforce reorganization efforts in conjunction with employing agencies. See 88 Fed. Reg. 56058; 80 Fed. Reg. 72455 (listing routine uses). Response to this email is voluntary. Although you must respond to take advantage of the deferred resignation offer, there is no penalty for nonresponse.
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The Federal government has been bloated for decades. Buy outs are nothing new, my wife was hope-ing one would show up when she able to retire. She watched numerous co-workers receive them over the many years she was employed. Six months short, oh well!!
Government = To many Chiefs not enough Indian's!! If it requires one to break a sweat, I won't do it mentality!!
The last couple of years she worked, almost broke her down. Had to deal with people who didn't know how to mail a letter, bend over for all the weird Alphabet group, chauvinistic co-workers(aka; wuss'es) and various eco-freak groups. She is so much happier now!!
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Saw an earlier post on page one that tried to make Trump look bad, that email looks pretty dang reasonable to me.
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If they wanted to do targeted cuts, that would be one thing, but the way Elon is going about this is really dumb. I mean, what if half of the FAAs air traffic controllers hit "resign"? They also don't have the legal authority to do these buyouts so it's not even clear the people who accept the offer will keep getting paid. I guess that's par for the course though - the promised compensation didn't happen when they did this at Twitter.
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Targeted cuts would take a while, this was quick and dirty. They may also run into contract problems with cuts where a resignation won't run into issues.
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During my days working for the department of defense, they did targeted buyouts pretty much the same thing the way I’m reading it ,
will give you money if you quit
Nothing new most of those guys end up coming back as contractors with the lure of 25K at the time they did it at my facility made a lot of people that had 10 years to go to retirement take the money and run.
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Shouldn't a "buyout" involve a person being offered a specific amount of money to go away? This is just some kind of weirdness.....click here and you don't have to show up but will get paid through September 2025. They are also trying to terminate working from home......sounds like a hybrid, maybe they are trolling the worker bees.
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Shouldn't a "buyout" involve a person being offered a specific amount of money to go away? This is just some kind of weirdness.....click here and you don't have to show up but will get paid through September 2025. They are also trying to terminate working from home......sounds like a hybrid, maybe they are trolling the worker bees.
9 months pay to stay home ?
Agree that’s a weird way to do it
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When I got the email I was like wtf kind of wrinky dink email is this. Ran it up the chain to see if was legit. An official email came out from the agency saying that it was an legit email. I still would not touch this whole thing with a 10' pole because it just sounds all kinds of hanky even though I am eligible for early retirement in June.
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Buyouts can vary, they may or may not have a lump sum, extension of benefits and pay (severance), stock or options, or whatever your employer wants to dangle out there to get the targeted number of employees to bite. Obviously, options and stock are off the table for gov employees.
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Reminds me of the 80s when they said we’re gonna establish a new retirement system called FERS all you guys on CSRS should take it cause it’s a really good deal
No thank you. I’ll stick with CSRS
that worked.
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Buyouts can vary, they may or may not have a lump sum, extension of benefits and pay (severance), stock or options, or whatever your employer wants to dangle out there to get the targeted number of employees to bite. Obviously, options and stock are off the table for gov employees.
Yep. I got a year's lump sum. Would've preferred pay as it greatly increased my tax liability that year (mid year).
Over 6 mos of pay to find a new job or transition to retirement. Full bennies during the transition. I've read the expectation is 5-10% take the deal.
You may be on the chopping block anyway as things mature.
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I wish my outfit would offer me a buyout. I’m pretty sure my level of management is on the chopping block and since my company got purchased a year and a half ago it hasn’t been the same it used to be.
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Reminds me of the 80s when they said we’re gonna establish a new retirement system called FERS all you guys on CSRS should take it cause it’s a really good deal
No thank you. I’ll stick with CSRS
that worked.
There aren't that many on CSRS anymore.
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This deal is pretty much what Elon did at Twitter. So if history is any indication of what is going to happen I would brush up on a 5min or less what you do at your job. How tangible the explanation is will likely determine the outcome.
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I am not worried about my job. It will be there that I am pretty confident with.
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This deal is pretty much what Elon did at Twitter. So if history is any indication of what is going to happen I would brush up on a 5min or less what you do at your job. How tangible the explanation is will likely determine the outcome.
That’s an easy answer if your boss asks you this. “Well Bob, since you don’t know what I do here how about you lay me off and figure that out?”
I have one of those worthless corporate SOB’s of a boss for the last few months that I would love to say that too. I believe there was a few of these workers at twitter who said the same thing to Elon as well. And a bunch of works at twitter that weren’t doing their jobs that Elon is glad to see gone.
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Back to the OP..
Was speaking to someone "in the know" a few months ago. They said without a doubt the Refuge System is the public land system that is most likely to see mass closures due to reduced staffing and budgets. At least with the USFS, NPS and BLM you have large staffs (yes I know they've been reduced too) to handle some of the load.
With refuges you have in many areas maybe 5 employees working at a refuge or group of refuges. The way budgets have been for the past 5 or so years for every 2 or 3 people you lose you may only be able to replace one of them. They are at all time low for uniformed federal game wardens, there are almost as many WDFW Officers in WA as there are USFWS Officers in the entire country.
At the end of the day the refuge system is set up for one purpose, to provide habitat and protection for wildlife. All other activities are secondary....
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This deal is pretty much what Elon did at Twitter. So if history is any indication of what is going to happen I would brush up on a 5min or less what you do at your job. How tangible the explanation is will likely determine the outcome.
That’s an easy answer if your boss asks you this. “Well Bob, since you don’t know what I do here how about you lay me off and figure that out?”
I have one of those worthless corporate SOB’s of a boss for the last few months that I would love to say that too. I believe there was a few of these workers at twitter who said the same thing to Elon as well. And a bunch of works at twitter that weren’t doing their jobs that Elon is glad to see gone.
I'm not sure how this is all gonna shake out but everyone is replaceable. Twitter had a hard time with the mass layoffs for about 6 months. No doubt Elon lost some good employees that got cut with the cuts. I have no doubt this will also happen in this situation.
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It seems like a more effective way would have been to identify functions that are not necessary rather than ATB or leaving it up to the individual employees to determine who goes. Like any other time, when the organization get shaky, the best performers are the first to pull the cord as they have the most options.
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Well now that it’s officially closed, had one employee opt in for resignation and know about 7 others that took it. I expect a few of those to not be processed as they were considered “public safety” positions.
Now we lost about all of those summer time recreational positions with over 3400 people being let go. A lot of those let go used to be temporary seasonal positions but were converted to temporary to perm postions when the forest circus did away with seasonal jobs…. Lots of those people being paid less than a fast food employee were canned. Let that sit with you.
Interesting times and here for the roller coaster.
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I’m good with what Trump is doing, we need some big changes in our spending, some good people will be affected, hopefully the cream rises to the top. But doge has to start somewhere, hopefully when they have time, they can fine tune things, but for now the tourniquet needs to be applied.
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It always hurts to rip the bandaid off but I think we'll be better for it in the long run, we were on an unsustainable trajectory. Hard to effectively cull a bloated behemoth like the federal government without having some unfavorable terminations along the way, you're talking millions of employees to sift through. Easy for me to say when it doesn't directly affect my employment though
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I saw an interview last night where they found a guy who took the buyout and said the reason was because he didn’t want to return to the office full time. For workers like this I feel the country is better off letting them go but I’m sure not all of the workers leaving are people who don’t want to work.
I am getting concerned about the private sector layoffs and price increases that are coming as a result of the tariffs. Trump and Musk might be over playing the hand they were dealt by moving too quickly and the democrats will pounce once the economic data starts to point to anything negative.
We have already received price increase notifications from manufacturers siting the tariffs for the reason and we are going to be passing those onto the consumer. This will drive inflation backup as we cannot build anything in this country without steel and aluminum or the components from China.
:twocents:
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Public sector layoffs will noticeably impact the economy at the level they are shooting for. They are tossing around the number of 10%, that's the equivalent of the entire city of Spokane nearly all at once. In addition to the direct employees, there are an unknown number of companies that are going to pull back and reduce staff. I'm not arguing right or wrong, just looking at the impact to the economy.
On the other hand, I'm not worried at all about the tariffs, it's a short term tactic to get better trade deals that has worked wonderfully. Worst case they can be removed as quick as they were put on. There are also powerful lobbyists for all the impacted industries to balance it all out. Easy net win for the country.
I do feel bad for many federal employees, there are many of that are doing their job to the best of their ability in places we really want them and deserve better even if it's in the best interest of the country to eliminate that position.
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Well with the amount of government saving we will have after the fraud has been exposed, I think paying for early outs is the last thing to worry about. Lotsa kicking and screaming and false sensational hype from the safe and secure government workers. I too bought into the lie of security. Nobody to blame but the government politicians on this one. Lives will be affected...it’s sad. Seems many are so wounded up about layoffs...not totally compassionate because I went through it with the jab. Where was the same outcry with the jab layoffs. Just curious?
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Public sector layoffs will noticeably impact the economy at the level they are shooting for. They are tossing around the number of 10%, that's the equivalent of the entire city of Spokane nearly all at once. In addition to the direct employees, there are an unknown number of companies that are going to pull back and reduce staff. I'm not arguing right or wrong, just looking at the impact to the economy.
On the other hand, I'm not worried at all about the tariffs, it's a short term tactic to get better trade deals that has worked wonderfully. Worst case they can be removed as quick as they were put on. There are also powerful lobbyists for all the impacted industries to balance it all out. Easy net win for the country.
I do feel bad for many federal employees, there are many of that are doing their job to the best of their ability in places we really want them and deserve better even if it's in the best interest of the country to eliminate that position.
That is the target from the resignation. Now, the next target is the firing of the probationary. Don't get me wrong in the last 4 years they went on a major hiring rampage with money that wasn't budgeted. Awaiting the next target after going back to work on Tueaday.
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This is what is happening now. The following is a post from a local fish biologist in the area I fish in Alaska. I seriously doubt her position was wasted money.
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"Until today, I was a fish biologist with the Chugach National Forest. I had been in my position for 11 months and 1 week; 3 weeks shy of the end of my probationary period. My reviews were stellar and just last week, my supervisor told me I was doing a fantastic job and he already certified that he wanted to keep me on past my probationary period. Today, in a form letter that had “batch” in the name and “Jill” instead of “Jillian”, I was informed I did not demonstrate my continued employment would be in the public interest and I was being terminated effective immediately. Me, along with 330,000 probationary federal employees nationwide.
As a fish bio, I worked on prioritizing road/stream crossings (culverts) for replacement; bad culverts block salmon passage to upstream habitat. I was developing our program direction for aquatic invasive species monitoring and response.
I was also a leader of the response team to eradicate an aquatic invasive plant from a lake in the Kenai River watershed. This plant is highly detrimental to salmon and salmon habitat. The Kenai River is a world class (and world renowned) fishery.
Much of what I worked on in the last year will be shelved; there will be no one to do the work.
On a very personal level, I’m a single mom who mostly lives paycheck to paycheck. I took a pay cut to take this job and made the move for what I thought was increased stability and getting to conserve salmon habitat in a national forest that was super special to me.
THIS is the reality of what’s happening. THIS is the heartbreak and devastation."
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
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lol
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From what I’ve seen for USFWS, 400-500 probationary employees out of around 8000-9000 total are being let go. We will see what it does on impacts to the work on the ground that the wildlife refuges do to burn, clean up, and open gates. USFWS does a lot of consultation and survey work for other fed and state agencies as well so this may have an impact on the hunting and fishing stakeholder community.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
Fat chance, most areas have lost a significant portion of their workforce that had the boots on the ground. To think this will get turned around anytime soon beyond laughable. The terminations will continue through next week, for an agency that was already lean. Oh well what’s a few more people to add to Washington homeless population.
Ramp up the cut then we can look at bringing back some employees.
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It’s only been 3 weeks in
I lived through the Clinton years government RIFs
Got that Tshirt , seen it in real time.
After 38 years seen lots of no loads that needed a reality check
Probationary and temp employees go first because of the rules
Then a reset
Temps, contract employees, realignment follows
If a let go employee is a performer they usually find there way back
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025/2/7/fact-check-did-clinton-set-the-precedent-for-mass-federal-worker-buyouts
Look on USAjobs -still jobs available
Time will tell
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Well with the amount of government saving we will have after the fraud has been exposed, I think paying for early outs is the last thing to worry about. Lotsa kicking and screaming and false sensational hype from the safe and secure government workers. I too bought into the lie of security. Nobody to blame but the government politicians on this one. Lives will be affected...it’s sad. Seems many are so wounded up about layoffs...not totally compassionate because I went through it with the jab. Where was the same outcry with the jab layoffs. Just curious?
Lolololololololol.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
Fat chance, most areas have lost a significant portion of their workforce that had the boots on the ground. To think this will get turned around anytime soon beyond laughable. The terminations will continue through next week, for an agency that was already lean. Oh well what’s a few more people to add to Washington homeless population.
Ramp up the cut then we can look at bringing back some employees.
That's not realistic. That's like having a doctor tell the surgeon to just start pulling out organs and well see how it goes during the post-surgery recovery.
Targeted cuts might have been productive AFTER auditing and understanding the impact. Broad base decimation doesn't actually protect the financial and resource interests of our country. That's why you don't just have some random person come in and fire your IT staff to save money... System dependency and vitality.
Musk did the same process at Twitter. Market cap went from 44b to 9b. It doesn't make operational sense or business sense
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I was employed several years ago by a fairly large, international company with offices literally around the world.. With profits down two years in a row, a decision was made to cut costs by closing some offices and letting people go. They offered what they called an early retirement offer to nearly every employee. 6 months pay and 6 months health insurance coverage. Problem was that every good employee who knew they could easily find employment (mostly with competitors) were the ones who took the offer. (Myself included) That was not enough so.they laid off another large group starting with the newest employees and worked their way up to reach their goal This left them with a management group who should have been selectively let go for poor preformance. Additionally the younger ones who made the cut were concerned about future cut backs and most of the better ones started immediately looking elsewhere..Company never really recovered, sold off some divisions and is now a shadow of its old self. Their record has made it difficult to recruit top people. Hope we're not seeing that same type thing in our government.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
Fat chance, most areas have lost a significant portion of their workforce that had the boots on the ground. To think this will get turned around anytime soon beyond laughable. The terminations will continue through next week, for an agency that was already lean. Oh well what’s a few more people to add to Washington homeless population.
Ramp up the cut then we can look at bringing back some employees.
That's not realistic. That's like having a doctor tell the surgeon to just start pulling out organs and well see how it goes during the post-surgery recovery.
Targeted cuts might have been productive AFTER auditing and understanding the impact. Broad base decimation doesn't actually protect the financial and resource interests of our country. That's why you don't just have some random person come in and fire your IT staff to save money... System dependency and vitality.
Musk did the same process at Twitter. Market cap went from 44b to 9b. It doesn't make operational sense or business sense
False equivalency. The only reason Twitter capped at $41BB (not 44) was because Musk was buying it (unless you have another explanation for gaining 28% in it's last month). No longer, being publicly traded, the current value is difficult to determine accurately, but if the same metrics (like P:E) were used to value "Wall Street", many would be cut if half. Lots of speculation. Twitter didn't make a profit most years, it's price:sales was "risky", had high debt load and high loan payments. Perhaps Musk paid way too much from a business perspective, but he wanted it and that's what it took. The market priced in his acquisition. Add in more competing platforms now, but Musk has ambitions to make "X" more than a platform.
Twitter made it's $ via advertising (the ol' "if it's free, you're the product" game). A lot of advertisers backed out due to the dropped accounts hullaballo It really didn't have to do with Musk trimming staff.
X seems to be functioning just fine. If it's not, what staff positions are needed? You should be able to attempt an answer ion that if you feel his staff cuts are responsible for it's devaluation.
IMHO it's fallacy to correlate public/private companies with .gov. .Gov/Bureaucrats exists to grow their empires. The bigger the budget/payroll, the more power your .gov org wields. I had a friend (D) who was a Legislative Analyst for a state legislator. She had a coworker with same title. There wasn't enough work for one, but the legislator didn't want to reduce his budget. So......they each worked 2 days per week for 5 day $$$. That was $120k each 12 years ago.
This idea that .gov jobs last forever is counter to any non-public sector.
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Anyone else out here to kill geese this morning?
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Hopefully the National forest is still open for fun this summer and fall. Also hopefully it doesn’t all burn to the ground.
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I was employed several years ago by a fairly large, international company with offices literally around the world.. With profits down two years in a row, a decision was made to cut costs by closing some offices and letting people go. They offered what they called an early retirement offer to nearly every employee. 6 months pay and 6 months health insurance coverage. Problem was that every good employee who knew they could easily find employment (mostly with competitors) were the ones who took the offer. (Myself included) That was not enough so.they laid off another large group starting with the newest employees and worked their way up to reach their goal This left them with a management group who should have been selectively let go for poor preformance. Additionally the younger ones who made the cut were concerned about future cut backs and most of the better ones started immediately looking elsewhere..Company never really recovered, sold off some divisions and is now a shadow of its old self. Their record has made it difficult to recruit top people. Hope we're not seeing that same type thing in our government.
I think you will see a lot of the good government works go to private contractors and make a ton of money selling the same services they were performing back to the government. Likewise the government won’t be properly staffed to see how the private sector is fleecing the government. You thought $40k hammers were bad just wait until this generation of federal workers buy $400k “hammers” and they show up with a squeaky rubber head and a plastic handle.
Baldopepper I am currently in a situation with my employer that you were in several years ago. Big private equity money came in and bought the company I worked for and started making a bunch of changes to increase value so they can resell their investment in a couple years. Now 2 years in the company value is tanking and the people are leaving. They can no longer attract decent talent and every KPI is going in the wrong direction. 2 weeks ago they increased prices dramatically after last year saying don’t lose on price. Now they are going to be the highest priced business in the field in our area. And I was told that I am required to maintain the margins I was getting before the 50% price hike. (They inflated the cost of labor and materials to the branches to cover corporate expenses)
Well last night I just ironed out the details of the offer letter I should be receiving next week to go to a competitor. Hoping for the best from a fresh start.
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Hopefully the National forest is still open for fun this summer and fall. Also hopefully it doesn’t all burn to the ground.
I’m hoping there is no attempts to sell our government land or lease it to a corporation that prevents us from using it. We all know there is some in government who feel we should sell it and they are typically Republicans.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
Fat chance, most areas have lost a significant portion of their workforce that had the boots on the ground. To think this will get turned around anytime soon beyond laughable. The terminations will continue through next week, for an agency that was already lean. Oh well what’s a few more people to add to Washington homeless population.
Ramp up the cut then we can look at bringing back some employees.
That's not realistic. That's like having a doctor tell the surgeon to just start pulling out organs and well see how it goes during the post-surgery recovery.
Targeted cuts might have been productive AFTER auditing and understanding the impact. Broad base decimation doesn't actually protect the financial and resource interests of our country. That's why you don't just have some random person come in and fire your IT staff to save money... System dependency and vitality.
Musk did the same process at Twitter. Market cap went from 44b to 9b. It doesn't make operational sense or business sense
No doubt it seems bass ackwards. I would have much rather seen the red tape reduced. Its easy to feel frustrated with the majority of the FS districts production. There are a handful of districts that have been headed in a good direction, I sure hope they can maintain it.
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I saw earlier today that the US Forest Service seams to be the hardest hit with today’s terminations. Honestly we were finally starting to see some actual management of our forests since Clinton stopped logging and I think these across the board actions will set forest management back even further.
Give it some time
I believe Trump will be directing his team to start doing some realignments, restructuring and new hiring
Fat chance, most areas have lost a significant portion of their workforce that had the boots on the ground. To think this will get turned around anytime soon beyond laughable. The terminations will continue through next week, for an agency that was already lean. Oh well what’s a few more people to add to Washington homeless population.
Ramp up the cut then we can look at bringing back some employees.
That's not realistic. That's like having a doctor tell the surgeon to just start pulling out organs and well see how it goes during the post-surgery recovery.
Targeted cuts might have been productive AFTER auditing and understanding the impact. Broad base decimation doesn't actually protect the financial and resource interests of our country. That's why you don't just have some random person come in and fire your IT staff to save money... System dependency and vitality.
Musk did the same process at Twitter. Market cap went from 44b to 9b. It doesn't make operational sense or business sense
No doubt it seems bass ackwards. I would have much rather seen the red tape reduced. Its easy to feel frustrated with the majority of the FS districts production. There are a handful of districts that have been headed in a good direction, I sure hope they can maintain it.
Red tape is gov't jobs.
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Some real TDS around here. No wonder WA is CA Lite.
~3% of the employees took the "early retirement".
There's 2.5MM civil Fed employees.
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In the mid 90s, Boeing offered the one and only Silver Parachute (only management get the Golden Parachute) to reduce head count. I do not remember the complete specifics, but basically anyone withing five years of retirement to take the option to retire and get a multitude of retirement benefits.
242 people on the "blacK" program I was working at the time. Everyone left started panicking. How are we going to replace all those senior people :dunno:
Well after everything settled down, 16 were replaced. :yike:
16 of the 242 were critical enough to be replaced, and most of those were through upgrades not new hires. No deliveries were impacted by schedule or quality.
I am not saying this is the answer, because each situation is different. I am saying that hardly ever is the damage done by consolidation situations, anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.
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Some real TDS around here. No wonder WA is CA Lite.
~3% of the employees took the "early retirement".
There's 2.5MM civil Fed employees.
This topic has shifted from the original posters intent. So this wasn’t actually inference to resigned. This was for terminated employees. I will not respond to this thread, cause it has gone off the tracks. But, you are correct not many resigned as they shouldn’t have.
Expect more haircuts without the soft landing.
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In the mid 90s, Boeing offered the one and only Silver Parachute (only management get the Golden Parachute) to reduce head count. I do not remember the complete specifics, but basically anyone withing five years of retirement to take the option to retire and get a multitude of retirement benefits.
242 people on the "blacK" program I was working at the time. Everyone left started panicking. How are we going to replace all those senior people :dunno:
Well after everything settled down, 16 were replaced. :yike:
16 of the 242 were critical enough to be replaced, and most of those were through upgrades not new hires. No deliveries were impacted by schedule or quality.
I am not saying this is the answer, because each situation is different. I am saying that hardly ever is the damage done by consolidation situations, anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be.
I met the criteria for a "package" from the power company. The target was 5% head count reduction. From silver handcuffs to silver parachute.
Dunno why so many think this is some weird arrangement. Similar enough happens in the private sector world routinely.
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From the Bureau of Labor and Statistics - This is why downsizing of a few tens of thousands does not even seem serious.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2024/employment-in-government-rose-by-709000-in-2023.htm
Employment in government rose by 709,000 in 2023
July 11, 2024
Employment growth in government accelerated in 2023 (+709,000), exceeding growth in 2022 (+299,000) and 2021 (+392,000). Government employment recovered to its prepandemic level in September 2023, surpassing its February 2020 level by 209,000 in December 2023.
Local government led the job gains, adding 351,000 jobs over the year, with gains in local government, excluding education (+189,000) and local government education (+162,000).
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That data has all forms of government - federal, state and local. They are shooting for a 200-300,00 reduction directly and probably double that overall if you account for private company involvement.
The thing I notice is that the cuts are very focused, so it isn't like every department will trim their bottom 10%. They haven't touched anything defense/security related and that's 70% of federal employees. So, if you cut 10% overall from only 30% of the pot you get a really big number.
Which leads me to the question of what will happen when we realize we actually needed some of those people? Will friendly corporations be ready and willing to quickly fix it through contracts? Is this going to just be a big outsourcing project?
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That data has all forms of government - federal, state and local. They are shooting for a 200-300,00 reduction directly and probably double that overall if you account for private company involvement.
The thing I notice is that the cuts are very focused, so it isn't like every department will trim their bottom 10%. They haven't touched anything defense/security related and that's 70% of federal employees. So, if you cut 10% overall from only 30% of the pot you get a really big number.
Which leads me to the question of what will happen when we realize we actually needed some of those people? Will friendly corporations be ready and willing to quickly fix it through contracts? Is this going to just be a big outsourcing project?
Fair points. My expectations, until proven otherwise, are that savings from deregulation and elimination of none essential outlays will provide the ability to ensure that necessary functions are funded and retained. I appreciate in the end it won't be perfect. And I very much appreciate that if you are someone with your head in the blender that it sucks and is extremely stressful. Sausage making is ugly business.
If in the end it does not largely go down as I'm hoping, I'll be right there with you demanding fixes. I think I'm paying attention...but to date all I have seen is a lot of hand wringing and worrying about things to worry about.
Sadly this is a result of generations of government run amok resulting in a non sustainable $16T debt.
I wish the best for all involved and believe that is where we will eventually end up.
It will be interesting to see specifically what has been cut. I'm hopeful this site will provide the details to allow people to better understand just what is being cut.
https://www.doge.gov/
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This
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METLHEAD - Two big ones this morning. Pair did it like in the picture books. Skip Wednesday; hunt Saturday. Last late season for who knows how long. I'm okay with that -
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Hooah! Somebody using their time right.
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I was employed several years ago by a fairly large, international company with offices literally around the world.. With profits down two years in a row, a decision was made to cut costs by closing some offices and letting people go. They offered what they called an early retirement offer to nearly every employee. 6 months pay and 6 months health insurance coverage. Problem was that every good employee who knew they could easily find employment (mostly with competitors) were the ones who took the offer. (Myself included) That was not enough so.they laid off another large group starting with the newest employees and worked their way up to reach their goal This left them with a management group who should have been selectively let go for poor preformance. Additionally the younger ones who made the cut were concerned about future cut backs and most of the better ones started immediately looking elsewhere..Company never really recovered, sold off some divisions and is now a shadow of its old self. Their record has made it difficult to recruit top people. Hope we're not seeing that same type thing in our government.
I think you will see a lot of the good government works go to private contractors and make a ton of money selling the same services they were performing back to the government. Likewise the government won’t be properly staffed to see how the private sector is fleecing the government. You thought $40k hammers were bad just wait until this generation of federal workers buy $400k “hammers” and they show up with a squeaky rubber head and a plastic handle.
Baldopepper I am currently in a situation with my employer that you were in several years ago. Big private equity money came in and bought the company I worked for and started making a bunch of changes to increase value so they can resell their investment in a couple years. Now 2 years in the company value is tanking and the people are leaving. They can no longer attract decent talent and every KPI is going in the wrong direction. 2 weeks ago they increased prices dramatically after last year saying don’t lose on price. Now they are going to be the highest priced business in the field in our area. And I was told that I am required to maintain the margins I was getting before the 50% price hike. (They inflated the cost of labor and materials to the branches to cover corporate expenses)
Well last night I just ironed out the details of the offer letter I should be receiving next week to go to a competitor. Hoping for the best from a fresh start.
You really think they were buying hammers?
More like "creative" accounting.
But in reality there never were hammers for $40k, $4k or even $400.
https://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/12/the-myth-of-the-600-hammer/5271/
And like any .gov agency, if you don't spend your budget, your budget gets cut next goround. And if you want something and don't have budget, you find it some other budget. I've disassembled tools into components/sub assemblies, because they had parts budget left, but not tool budget.
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Some real TDS around here. No wonder WA is CA Lite.
~3% of the employees took the "early retirement".
There's 2.5MM civil Fed employees.
And the salaries of those 2.5 million federal employees comprise of roughly 1% of federal spending...
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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Some real TDS around here. No wonder WA is CA Lite.
~3% of the employees took the "early retirement".
There's 2.5MM civil Fed employees.
And the salaries of those 2.5 million federal employees comprise of roughly 1% of federal spending...
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Would be prudent to show the math.
AI says payroll is 6% of GDP and 1/3 of fed tax receipts. My quick napkin math says these may well be similar numbers.
But:
This is descretionary spending.
There's an old saying in building race cars; Shave off the ounces and the pounds will take care of themselves.
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That's my thought, defense and intelligence are something like 70-80% of discretionary spending and like always nobody is talking about that.
My guess is the reason they are going after the employees is that they want to prevent those employees from spending the money, not just the savings in their salaries. The president doesn't have control over the spending directly, but if he fires the guy who cuts the check the outcome is similar. This is what some of the early lawsuits are considering.
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That's my thought, defense and intelligence are something like 70-80% of discretionary spending and like always nobody is talking about that.
My guess is the reason they are going after the employees is that they want to prevent those employees from spending the money, not just the savings in their salaries. The president doesn't have control over the spending directly, but if he fires the guy who cuts the check the outcome is similar. This is what some of the early lawsuits are considering.
:yeah: