Post by: buglebuster on August 07, 2025, 07:50:33 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250807/b79979bb0187a4b6baf1226f2d610658.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250807/cd1bea17b893eceb992361f50b48235c.jpg)
Post by: Bob33 on August 07, 2025, 07:54:00 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on August 07, 2025, 08:46:01 AM
Seems like another rule slipped in there and pushed by the anti's to try and make hunters appear like we are out targeting sows with cubs attached to their teet.
Post by: Bearhunter308 on August 07, 2025, 10:42:06 AM
I hunt a lot of woods, overgrown trails and logging roads. Basically areas where it’s not easy to watch a bear for a long time. Furthermore, as I am watching videos and looking at my own trail camera footage, trying to be able to distinguish between boars and sows better, I’m feeling increasingly frustrated. There seems to be exceptions to head size/shape, not all bears fall into the body shape category. I’m thinking the most sure-fire way of ensuring it’s not a female with cubs is to be able to watch it for an extended period of time to confirm no cubs are around. As mentioned, not easy to do where I like to hunt :(
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on August 07, 2025, 11:25:58 AM
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
Post by: buglebuster on August 07, 2025, 11:52:30 AM
if she’s in my pack/cooler/truck she’s not accompanied by cubs anymore… yes I understand it says shoot too.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250807/3a7f96822fc9e7b163f6384a087fcd15.jpg)
Post by: Stein on August 07, 2025, 12:29:15 PM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
I get your reasoning, but the goal is not to stop shooting sows, their goal is to stop shooting everything so this is simply a step towards the next step.
Post by: vandeman17 on August 07, 2025, 12:47:38 PM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
I get your reasoning, but the goal is not to stop shooting sows, their goal is to stop shooting everything so this is simply a step towards the next step.
:yeah:
Post by: ghosthunter on August 07, 2025, 02:02:41 PM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
I get your reasoning, but the goal is not to stop shooting sows, their goal is to stop shooting everything so this is simply a step towards the next step.
:yeah:
Listen I can tell you right now if someone accidentally shoots a lactating sow. No one is calling a game agent. They will simply leave it lay. There is no rule to bring the hide out so who’s going to know.
I am not saying that’s good. But that’s what will happen just like it happens with 3 point restrictions.
At least before they put the word illegal in, if someone accidentally shot a sow that had cubs they would report. No penalty, now it’s a different story.
I believe they had made it worse.
Post by: Stein on August 07, 2025, 02:44:16 PM
Post by: Bearhunter308 on August 07, 2025, 02:47:12 PM
It would be easier to avoid females with cubs if we had that luxury. Just makes it increasingly difficult for the Washington bear hunter to be successful, while staying within the law.
Out of curiosity, does this change how any of you are going to hunt? Since I do want to stay within the law, I’ll be pretty hesitant to pull the trigger on a bear that I can only see for a short period of time. I’m thinking finding wider open spaces, glassing, and calling hillsides may be what I need to adapt to more. Terrain that I can watch a bear for a much longer period of time before shooting.
Are any of you guys feeling this way, or planning on switching up your method of bear hunting?
Post by: Stein on August 07, 2025, 02:49:52 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on August 07, 2025, 04:40:48 PM
Post by: GeoSwan on August 07, 2025, 04:48:15 PM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
This is like saying you support banning "assault" rifles so that the gun lobby doesn't have to work to ban them anymore. That's not how it works, and the anti hunting crowd isn't going to stop until you're posting cute videos of bear cubs in a flower patch to Facebook. One uninformed, politically charged mismanagement rule at a time and you'll be pretending beef brisket is bear meat. This is serious. They're coming for your past time activities like it's their business, and they wont stop until they win. Don't give them an inch. It's up to us to actively resist their obnoxious attempts to tell us what to do.
Post by: dreadi on August 07, 2025, 04:57:24 PM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.I've read this multiple times, took a break, came back to read it again and I still understand how this helps anyone that hunts bears.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
Black Hammer Arms
www.blackhammerarms.com
The Guy On HuntWA Selling Suppressors
@blackhammerarms
Post by: furbearer365 on August 07, 2025, 05:19:37 PM
Post by: MADMAX on August 07, 2025, 05:22:24 PM
Anyone else see the irony of people arguing that gender doesn't matter in the human world, but using gender as their only argument in the wildlife world. We should just argue that male bears can have cubs also, so why specify that we can't shoot sows. If both genders can carry babies, then the bear population will explode
Next thing you know will be looking for purple hair and piercings
Post by: dreadi on August 07, 2025, 05:55:01 PM
Black Hammer Arms
www.blackhammerarms.com
The Guy On HuntWA Selling Suppressors
@blackhammerarms
Post by: High Climber on August 07, 2025, 07:03:28 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on August 07, 2025, 07:11:57 PM
Pretty sure I’ve killed a 50lb bear before in the spring. By itself in a wide open clear cut… I knew it was small but bears can have more ground shrinkage than most critters!
I bet that was tasty.👍
Post by: MADMAX on August 07, 2025, 09:59:25 PM
You make the call
I’m shootin
Post by: EnglishSetter on August 08, 2025, 12:32:38 AM
This is a rule in ID and MT .... its been talked about and was brought to the table to curb the restrictions on bear hunting. We got the restrictions (loss of spring hunting) and this rule. None the less I support it as it takes away a big talking point for anti-bear hunting.
Considering the most common claim by the "anti-hunting" crowd is orphaning cubs this kills that claim. The argument is now mute as it would be illegal to do so. Going a step further this rule would likely help re-instate spring bear hunting (I understand probably less than a 5% chance of that ever happening) as again the talking point has been taken away that Hunter now have to legally only hunt Boars in the spring leaving the Sows alone to raise their cubs.
From previous discussions the biggest thing they are going to use to check this I presume will be if the sow is lactating. IF the sow is not lactating I would have no worries. If the sow is lactating but no longer has cub(s) for whatever reason. I would probably stay right where I am and get a gamey to verify before taking out of the field.
There's no shortage of "reasons" to reduce hunting opportunity.
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 08, 2025, 09:19:54 AM
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 08, 2025, 11:18:09 AM
Post by: Bearhunter308 on August 08, 2025, 12:23:23 PM
It is much harder with this law in WA than it is in Idaho or Montana. When you can hunt over bait it is much easier to be selective. Back when baiting was legal the majority of bears that were killed were mature boars as the smaller bears and females were largely passed on (I understand that there are exceptions to this). In eastern WA the shot opportunity is usually pretty quick where most of us hunt as they are busting out of a thicket or timber and aren't dallying around to give you a chance to judge accurately.....That’s my feeling too. I wasn’t targeting sows with cubs before, but when a shot opportunity presents itself, there’s not always much time to watch the bear.
Post by: HighGrouseHunt on August 08, 2025, 01:41:37 PM
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on August 08, 2025, 01:56:00 PM
I know it’s legal in Idaho, but is it legal to bear hunt over bait in Montana?
No you cannot hunt bears over bait in Montana but you can hunt with Dogs in both ID and MT.
Its a blow there is no doubt. I know there is a lot of grieve about the new rule. Trust me I'm not excited about it and maybe my message earlier was a little miss read.
What I have seen is a consensus is that no one seams to go out trying to kill a sow with cubs. And if you truly arent then this rule shouldnt effect you. The numbers back it up too... I think in 2022 out off all the bears killed only like 16 where lactating and less than 3 were confirmed with cubs in the spring bear hunt. So yes you almost didnt even need this rule.
My new question would be if the rule didnt get changed. And you happened to shoot a sow with cubs... what would you have done?
I guess the answer is that's nature and there is no reason something else couldnt have killed the sow and left the cubs orphaned but thats what has me real curious. If we were all not already trying to our best abilities not shoot a sow with cubs why does this rule really effect us? Or does it effect us soooo much more than the possible positive that can come out of us hunters standing up for conservation and being vocal that we do support this because it was never our goal before and we dont support "orphan" cubs as much as the anti-bear crowd. And again we can strip a huge huge argument away from them and preserve bear hunting.
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on August 08, 2025, 02:01:21 PM
Was told there are good hucks by the Wenatchee Guard Station and I have the late cow tag for Couse so checking in with landowner over in Cloverland too.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 08, 2025, 02:07:52 PM
The difference is under the new law 16 hunters who shot a lactating sow by mistake could have been charged and fined for no real fault of their own.
The rule has been reframe from shooting sows with cubs for years. And there is little evidence that most hunters violated that. Now you have the possibility of a fine if you make a mistake.
Do you really think a hunter is going to turn himself in? Nope those sows will lay and rot. With the old rule maybe the cubs had a chance, not with the new rule.
It’s not about conservation any longer with the present commission. It’s about tightening the screws on bear hunters.
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on August 08, 2025, 02:34:33 PM
avidnwoutdoorsman
The difference is under the new law 16 hunters who shot a lactating sow by mistake could have been charged and fined for no real fault of their own.
The rule has been reframe from shooting sows with cubs for years. And there is little evidence that most hunters violated that. Now you have the possibility of a fine if you make a mistake.
Do you really think a hunter is going to turn himself in? Nope those sows will lay and rot. With the old rule maybe the cubs had a chance, not with the new rule.
It’s not about conservation any longer with the present commission. It’s about tightening the screws on bear hunters.
Agree with everything you say here. I do. I'm not advocating for this rule completely. Its real hard with out dogs or bait to kill confidently a sow without cubs in most of our state without be able to watch them for a really really long time. I've never had the luxury of hunting with dogs or bait.... hence why I am going to find huckleberry patches this weekend. I'm ok to change how I hunt for this rule but it impacts others opportunity and I dont like that.
I recant much after I reflect. We have plenty of bears and how the rule was and how the majority of our ethics where things were ok. I dont like to restrict others ways of hunting. Many of us including myself intentionally hunt bears in close quarters where they are going to be sub 50yds and you have as much time as it takes to shoulder you rifle to make the shot... judge if you should take the shot. That way of hunting is likely gone or with significant risk.
Heck I know we could loose a couple more bears and this rule really puts me in a fun spot. I have sow on my property jrebel probably knows her because we are near country neighbors that I swear is the most fertile girl ever and the best thing for our valley(s) is that she goes away. And now that will present a big big challenge. Jrebel if you know the girl I'm talking about she drops triplets every other year and twins on the off years. She is a bear making machine and this year she had twins... likely the best year for her to have none this fall but now gotta be real sure about it. Its ok, the bruin knocking her up is a tank called Hank... Hank the Tank. Has a belly like he carrying a keg between his legs.
Post by: Alan K on August 08, 2025, 02:43:38 PM
The difference is under the new law 16 hunters who shot a lactating sow by mistake could have been charged and fined for no real fault of their own.
The reality here though is that if they weren't 100% sure, it was only their fault that the trigger was pulled. We don't apply that thinking to a hunter who shoots a 2 point mule deer that was feeding in a brush patch because the hunter believed he saw a third point. Or should we say that's of no real fault of their own? At the end of the day in any of these situations, the hunter must be sure before pulling the trigger, and the result of that action is solely his or her "fault".
Do you really think a hunter is going to turn himself in? Nope those sows will lay and rot. With the old rule maybe the cubs had a chance, not with the new rule.
I think any ethical hunter would at least salvage the animal, whether they call themselves in or not who knows, but hard to imagine someone letting something go to waste. At least in the circle of guys I know. Pre or post rule, I don't see how the situation changes for the cub(s)?
It’s not about conservation any longer with the present commission. It’s about tightening the screws on bear hunters.
100% true here. We should at least be intellectually honest from our side though.
The reality is that bear populations are put of control in this state, and even if some number of sows are taken with cubs it will not have any meaningful impact on populations whatsoever. Should we be hunting does or cows by the same logic? Bottom line is it's a dumb rule, and won't move the needle much. I don't see anyone being prosecuted anyways. Lactating does not mean the sow was accompanied by cubs, a boar could have killed those cubs days prior.
Post by: hunter399 on August 08, 2025, 04:24:39 PM
It's a no .....no .....now.
I really don't think anyone plans on shooting a sow with cubs.
Post by: dilleytech on August 08, 2025, 07:27:07 PM
Post by: hunter399 on August 09, 2025, 04:30:05 AM
Another pointless law. No one’s out there with the intention of shooting a sow WITH cubs. The last thing I want to shoot is a sow with cubs. But I can say with certainty I’m not letting a bear lay to rot and this notion hunters are just watching bears frolic in a field for an hour before shooting them is fantasy land. If they actually cared about sows with cubs they would allow bear baiting but they don’t care they are just trying to make the anti hunters happy.Totally agree
Ding .....ding for the win.
Post by: boneaddict on August 09, 2025, 08:25:04 AM
To add, there are too many crazies out there afraid of their own shadow, and willing to shoot any patch of color they see. I bet there is a real statistic out there, but I'd say anecdotally that more folks are accidentally fatally shot during bear season than any other. Turkey might own non fatal. Ranchers can also attest to how many of their cattle get busted this time of year as well.
Post by: dilleytech on August 09, 2025, 11:03:44 AM
I've had this engrained in me since I was able to understand words, so really its not that big of a deal. I suppose if more folks would have adhered to that teaching, then this wouldnt have to be a rule. This was one of the advantages of hunting over bait and with hounds, it was easier to observe your prey and make better judgements. Thankfully, every bear I have killed has had a swizzle stick. I believe this has been a thing in Alaska, at least for grizzlies for at least a couple decades.
To add, there are too many crazies out there afraid of their own shadow, and willing to shoot any patch of color they see. I bet there is a real statistic out there, but I'd say anecdotally that more folks are accidentally fatally shot during bear season than any other. Turkey might own non fatal. Ranchers can also attest to how many of their cattle get busted this time of year as well.
I would guess rifle deer is by far the highest. So many more hunters. And all the crippled blind hunters rifle hunt. Duck hunting might be worse.
Post by: EnglishSetter on August 09, 2025, 11:45:44 AM
I've had this engrained in me since I was able to understand words, so really its not that big of a deal. I suppose if more folks would have adhered to that teaching, then this wouldnt have to be a rule. This was one of the advantages of hunting over bait and with hounds, it was easier to observe your prey and make better judgements. Thankfully, every bear I have killed has had a swizzle stick. I believe this has been a thing in Alaska, at least for grizzlies for at least a couple decades.
To add, there are too many crazies out there afraid of their own shadow, and willing to shoot any patch of color they see. I bet there is a real statistic out there, but I'd say anecdotally that more folks are accidentally fatally shot during bear season than any other. Turkey might own non fatal. Ranchers can also attest to how many of their cattle get busted this time of year as well.
FWIW, upland bird hunting has by far the most amount of accidental shootings of humans. Typically not lethal, but can nevertheless be life changing
Post by: boneaddict on August 09, 2025, 11:56:50 AM
Post by: EnglishSetter on August 09, 2025, 12:56:36 PM
Ole Dick Cheney proved that I guess. :chuckle: :hunter: :DOH:
Being an avid upland bird hunter, I did "study" that incident. I place as much or more blame on the guy who got shot (and I'm no fan of Cheney). He had gone back to the outfitter's truck, drove around when she noticed Dick and friend had located some birds. He approached from behind a rise, birds flushed as he cleared the rise.
A safe bird hunter keeps track of other hunters (in our party or not). We make ourselves seen. A little wave is yuge. When a guy checks out and goes back to the truck, he's now not tracked. Then when he decides to rejoin without making himself known and approaches from out of view, he's at least party to his danger.
I seriously doubt this new bear rule will have any safety effect.
Post by: MuleyTracksWA on August 15, 2025, 07:13:14 AM
After watching her for three to three and a half hours, the bear stayed about 250 yards from the timber edge in that berry patch. Then, two little cubs came popping out of the timber, running toward the sow and joined her.
The big question is: how long do you have to watch a bear before you know? One hour? One day? Three days? Five days? A whole season? The real issue at hand, however, is the interpretation of the term "accompanied" within Washington’s legal framework, particularly as it pertains to hunting regulations. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) defines "accompanied" in such a way that it can vary significantly based on context. Generally, it suggests being in a position to assist immediately, maintaining close visual and auditory communication. This can be a crucial factor in decision-making during hunts, where unpredictability is a given.
My take is the only way to be sure is you can't shoot any sow.
Post by: birddogdad on August 15, 2025, 07:34:41 AM
Another pointless law. No one’s out there with the intention of shooting a sow WITH cubs. The last thing I want to shoot is a sow with cubs. But I can say with certainty I’m not letting a bear lay to rot and this notion hunters are just watching bears frolic in a field for an hour before shooting them is fantasy land. If they actually cared about sows with cubs they would allow bear baiting but they don’t care they are just trying to make the anti hunters happy.
exactly, ethical hunters already are there. this is a money grab potential, law made by same "ANTi"crew who want you to fill out several permission slips and PAY to gain permission to even purchase a gun.. made by non hunters for hunters...