Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 02:15:31 PM

Title: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 02:15:31 PM: Well after 2 weeks of reading and talking to people I decided on the round I want for my Savage heavy barrel. It is a 6mm-270. Good barrel life and good long range round. Here is what some guys are getting for speed.
55gr-4500+fps
100gr-3500fps
So should be a fun rifle. Sorry for the bad pic used my phone. This is a 6mm-270 I did next to a 243 with same round loaded.
(https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo30/81/eb/7ae7ce0ebe9a__1246191129000.jpeg)
Title: Re: New round
Post by: WDFW-SUX on June 28, 2009, 02:39:00 PM: Thats a dandy cartridge.. :tup:
Title: Re: New round
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2009, 02:44:10 PM: Is this any different than a standard 6mm-06? Either way it should be a lot of fun. What are the details on you Savage project (stock, barrel maker, etc)?
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 02:44:51 PM: The nice thing is going with something like this I can always go bigger. But I wanted something for long range shooting. Some day I would like to try hunting antelope and would like the option of setting back 700yrds and dropping one, Guys say this round is good for 1000yrd shooting so I will feel it will be a good round. Figure the dies are being made for it so it must be half way good. I was going to go with a 6mm-284 but want something that would give for barrel life.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 02:48:54 PM: Yes it is like a 6mm-06 just more barrel life. I am using a savage model 12 heavy barrel fluted. As far as stock and all that not sure yet. Start with barrel and action first then will work from there.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 03:09:26 PM: I am a dumb ass I was going to use my Savage Model 16FHSS 204ruger as a donor action. Not thinking I can't I need a long action receiver. So after I get the barrel back I will have to find a action.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2009, 03:16:36 PM: If those velocities are for real, i doubt barrel life will be very good. The 6mm-284 and 240 Weatherby only hit 3200fps at the top end with a 100gr bullet, and both these rounds are known for being pretty hard on barrels. I would be a little worried about any load data that will get you that kind of speed. The fastest I've ever had a 110gr bullet moving from a 300WSM is 3560 from a 28" barrel. And that load was pushing the envelope a fair bit.

Are you just having you current barrel rechambered, or are you going to put a new barrel on? You can get a new prefit barrel for around $300 bucks and just screw it on yourself if you want ot go that route. Also, the model 12 is a short action. Unless you are going to use it as a single shot, the '06 case won't fit in the mag. You could use one of the 284 Win based rounds. They would fit, but your overall length would be limited in the short action magazine.

I'm not trying to step on your project, just offering another opinion. I actually have a Savage model 16 sitting on my work bench now that I'm going to screw a new barrel onto. I just have to decide what caliber.

Andrew
Title: Re: New round
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2009, 03:17:53 PM: You had you epiphany while I was typing. Where is the barrel at?
Title: Re: New round
Post by: cascademountainhunter on June 28, 2009, 03:18:57 PM: sounds like its a good one hope ya have good luck with it.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 03:23:34 PM: I have the barrel sitting here. So ya the new savage 16FHSS 204ruger I have I will sell and use for my build of a long action.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 03:27:19 PM: Here is a better pic of what the round will look like. The one on the right is a 270 round and the one on the left is a 6mm-270. Here is theversion with minimum taper and the shoulder blown forward to 40 degrees, and a 270 round for comparison. It holds about 15% more powder.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg120%2Fwillsnipe%2FIMG_0347_edited.jpg&hash=6d99cddff0d9f027955c22670593fe3281b3c2e9)
Title: Re: New round
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2009, 03:37:09 PM: If this had happened two days ago I would have gladly bought your 204 from you. :bash: I was looking for a stainless long action, but decided that I could make do with the short action.

Throw you rifle up in the classifieds and try for a trade. Maybe you'll be able to go straight across for a long action.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 03:40:32 PM: Ya I will put it up. I dont even have to have a Savage action because I will just have the barrel threads cut.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 28, 2009, 05:33:42 PM: Hate to break it to you... but barrel life will be worse than the 6/284... more capacity=less life. I don't think there's any way you'd get 4500 out of a 55 grainer without leaning on the measure a little heavy. And, a 100 grainer at 3500 is really stretching it too... a .25-06 is lucky to get 3400 out of a 100 grainer... and that's the same case with a bigger bore. I know a guy that shoots a 6-06 a lot... he gets a tad better than 6mm Rem velocities... a tad.

My fireformed 25-06AI cases held about 7% more than my standard cases... that means an increase in velocity somewhere around 2%. The 6/284 case and the '06 case are almost identical in capacity... so if you can get 2% more velocity than the 6/284... then you should see about 3200-3250 with a 100 grainer and about 4150 or so with a 55. The law of diminishing returns is a real bitch...
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 05:40:09 PM: then you should see about 3200-3250 with a 100 grainer and about 4150 or so with a 55. The law of diminishing returns is a real bitch...
Even with those # I would be happy. But the #'s I posted I have found a few sites saying the same thing I posted. But like I said even your #'s I will be happy with.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 28, 2009, 08:21:49 PM: If you'd be happy with those #'s... then make it a 6mm Rem.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 28, 2009, 08:32:41 PM: I have not checked on that round. But my only concern would be the power at like 700 yrds or so. would the 6mm have the energy left to drop a Antelope or deer at 700yrds. I am not a big bullet guy as I do not believe I need a 338 to take down a deer at those distance just good shooting.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: G.R.K on June 28, 2009, 09:35:09 PM: 240 WBY :dunno:
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 28, 2009, 09:49:10 PM: Dude... 100-200 fps isn't going to mean dick-all at 700 yards. There's a whole lot of shooting that needs to happen between now and then... and .243 vs. 6/06 ain't going to be the deciding factor on a pronghorn. Besides... even a big 'lope is about 110lbs... and they ain't very hard to shoot through.

I've seen a lot of big game critters get pole-axed with .243 cal bullets... from 50 feet to the far side of 500 yards... put a 90-100 grain bullet in the boiler room... and it doesn't matter much what round it came from. I shot two muley does with 55 grainers out of the 6mm... both went down like they were struck by the hammer of Thor.

Just for giggles, I ran the numbers... a 90 grain NBT (my favorite "all purpose" bullet in 6mm)... started at 3400 it has 650 ft/lbs at 700 yards... at 3700 it has 775 ft/lbs... that 125 ft/lbs means nothing. If the bullet is through the lungs... dead lope... if it ain't... long tracking job... and that goes for rounds a whole lot bigger than 6's too!

If you substitute the 95 Berger VLD... at 3300 you'd have about 1000ft/lbs... at 3600 you'd have about 1175. And, the difference in wind is about 3" at 700 yards... you see what I'm getting at here? All of this is just ballistic gack... and you'd save yourself a whole lot of time and dough... by sticking with the .243 and just shooting it.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: jackelope on June 28, 2009, 10:19:24 PM: hundreds of dollars spent for pennies worth of results achieved.

:dunno:

Josh's take on things makes good sense to me.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: G.R.K on June 28, 2009, 11:34:21 PM: Velocity is all that matters. ;)
Title: Re: New round
Post by: Bofire on June 29, 2009, 01:41:38 PM: :)Now you guys, Catwithboost is on a mission to build a great gun. I did that too. Most wildcats are an exercise in futility but so what? its fun!! Dont down his trip.
Once a 6mm bullet is in the air the case it came from dont matter. I say go for it Cat!! have fun
Carl
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 29, 2009, 04:07:40 PM: Yeah... we all ignore good advice... build the gun... or three. I've been there... done that... and know what happens. The numbers don't lie... but eveyone thinks their rifle will be an exception to the rule... it ain't. Have fun... then come back to reality.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 29, 2009, 05:15:52 PM: Quote from: Bofire on June 29, 2009, 01:41:38 PM
:)Now you guys, Catwithboost is on a mission to build a great gun. I did that too. Most wildcats are an exercise in futility but so what? its fun!! Dont down his trip.
Once a 6mm bullet is in the air the case it came from dont matter. I say go for it Cat!! have fun
Carl
Thank you Carl. Yes it is my money and really aint costing me dick to build it. I have the stock, Barrel and barrel work is free So I will have to buy a action and a trigger. So figure $400.00 for a new rifle. So you guys talking down on what I am doing can you buy a new rifle and put a aftermarket $200 trigger on it and be into it ALL for $400.00? NO! So that is why I am doing it.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: Red Dawg on June 29, 2009, 07:45:31 PM: I would build the rifle in a second. Something a little bit different than the rest and who cares if it gives you an advantage or not. I havent met a gun I didnt enjoy now matter how fast or slow it shoots. Make sure to keep us posted on how it shoots cat. good luck
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 29, 2009, 08:45:12 PM: Quote from: Red Dawg on June 29, 2009, 07:45:31 PM
I would build the rifle in a second. Something a little bit different than the rest and who cares if it gives you an advantage or not. I havent met a gun I didnt enjoy now matter how fast or slow it shoots. Make sure to keep us posted on how it shoots cat. good luck
Will do. And let the flaming start on this one. I am going to work my 7mm mag over after this season to a 7mm/378 weatherby mag. Why you say? Because I want to. :)
Title: Re: New round
Post by: bow-n-head on June 29, 2009, 09:05:10 PM: Josh I don't know where u r getting your reloading data, but my .243 doesn't even come close to 3400fps with a 90 gr. bullet. 3100 on the hot side. :dunno: yes I have chronied the loads :chuckle:
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 29, 2009, 09:23:22 PM: Where do I get my numbers? From about 20 years worth of work with various 6mm caliber cartridges... like I said at the begining of this post... I've built two 6/284s... I drank the kool-aid... twice! Add that to a couple .243s, 6mm Rems, a 6/250,and a buddy's 6/06... and I have a fair idea of what 6mm combos are capable of. I've also built a bunch of other wildcats... and have always come up short of what the gurus were saying was possible. My current 6mm will run 90s at 3300 pretty easily (in a 24" factory pipe)....

It's pretty common to get extra velocity out of a wildcat, because everyone shoots them so hot... if you do the same thing to a standard cartridge you're "asking for trouble"... why is that? Just because a case is "ackleyed" or necked up/down doesn't mean that all of a sudden 75,000 psi is acceptable... it just means that there's no established standard... so use whatever's clever. Run them both at equal pressure... and the results will be a lot closer than factory loads vs. your hot loads that you got off some internet site. 'boost posted numbers running a 6/06 with 100's in the 3500 area... that's pushing it real hard... might as well work numbers pushing the other round equally as hard. And, the numbers were more for comparison sake... use the 300fps difference (use 3100 and 3400... the difference is still about 100-150 ft/lbs)... and you can see that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to schitt that's covered with fur.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: bow-n-head on June 30, 2009, 06:05:20 PM: Josh, what powder would you recomend in a .243 win. with a 95 gr. berger bullet. It looks like you have a lot of experience in 6mm. I don't like hot loads at all.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on June 30, 2009, 06:21:32 PM: Well three of my 243 savages have like H380 42gr for the 95gr bullets.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on June 30, 2009, 09:58:03 PM: Quote from: bow-n-head on June 30, 2009, 06:05:20 PM
Josh, what powder would you recomend in a .243 win. with a 95 gr. berger bullet. It looks like you have a lot of experience in 6mm. I don't like hot loads at all.

Something pretty slow... RE-22 works well in my 6mm... Ramshot Magnum produces great velocities too. Most guys get caught up in the 4350 type powders... too fast for optimum performance with the heavier pills. The 95 Berger will handle a little more powder too... it's long, but the bearing surface is very short... and you can run them a little faster than other bullets of equal weight.

How do you decide what's a "hot" load?
Title: Re: New round
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 03, 2009, 04:53:36 PM: Sounds interesting cat. I'll be picking up that 240 you, killbilly and I talked about at cabelas, should be about the same thing, which ain't bad... Later
Title: Re: New round
Post by: catwithboost on July 03, 2009, 08:54:25 PM: 257 Wby Mag We need to get together so you can show me a coyote :chuckle: Also i think I am going to go with a long action round and go with a 6mm/284 :dunno: sounds cool :chuckle:
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on July 03, 2009, 09:46:44 PM: The only coyote he's going to show you is the one on his wall...

6/284 is a good round... don't think a long action will gain you anything though. If you're going with a long action... why not just go 6/06... that way you could neck down 25-06 brass and fire away?
Title: Re: New round
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 04, 2009, 06:28:18 AM: Good one, killa....
Title: Re: New round
Post by: Slider on July 04, 2009, 08:39:53 AM: If you want to shoot a Lope at 700yds? Use a 264 Win Mag!!! :)
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on July 04, 2009, 09:32:23 AM: Quote from: 257 Wby Mag on July 04, 2009, 06:28:18 AM
Good one, killa....

Hey... I want to come yote hunting with you.

Jud's coyote hunting technique:
1. Sit on the back porch...
2. Crack a cold one...
3. Wait for coyote to show up on bait pile...
4. Shoot coyote (or in Jud's case... shoot at coyote)...
5. Repeat as necessary...

Don't get any better than that for some coyote hunting... beats the hell out of freezing your ass off on the side of some canyon blowing on a call like a goon.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 04, 2009, 09:36:05 AM: Or go to the eastside, with spotlight, drive around all night, and slick em up outta fields..... With the heat cranked. grin...

Looking forward to the trip.
Title: Re: New round
Post by: JoshT on July 04, 2009, 10:40:32 AM: Hey... I only crank the heat up in January... 'till then I man up and deal with the cold.