Post by: Airnip on July 11, 2009, 08:00:38 AM
Be sure of target and background before putting finger in trigger guard.
Post by: bearpaw on July 11, 2009, 08:14:32 AM
They say he was ordered to attend hunter education. Doesn't the law state that he will lose his hunting privelages until reinstated by the commission???
Post by: billythekidrock on July 11, 2009, 08:55:51 AM
Post by: buckhorn2 on July 11, 2009, 09:15:29 AM
Post by: rainshadow1 on July 11, 2009, 09:34:27 AM
That being said, I thought the sentence was very, very soft. Should have been quite a bit more time, and WAY more community service. Guest star at hunter education classes to teach what? That you can get off easy for being an idiot and killing someone?!?!
The kid made the biggest mistake of his and someone else' life... that should have far more serious reprocussions.
Post by: bearpaw on July 11, 2009, 09:43:52 AM
If the kid had any intent I would also agree with more juvenile time. However, I think we need to remember he did not have intent and the longer you keep him incarcerated with youth criminals the greater risk of turning him into a criminal.
Myself I would agree to giving him less jail time and far more community service. He will be thinking about how he messed up while working for the community. If you want to punish him more, do it in a manner that benefits the community and with less risk of turning him into another real criminal. :twocents:
Post by: TeacherMan on July 11, 2009, 10:07:36 AM
Post by: Kain on July 11, 2009, 10:14:32 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on July 11, 2009, 02:06:37 PM
House arrest and WAAAY more community service. He did kill someone but I dont think he is a threat to the public so jail is not the right place for him. Just a sad deal all around.
I agree 100%.
Post by: clindsayrun on July 11, 2009, 03:26:32 PM
Let’s not make any excuses. This was negligence and stupidity, brought on by excitement and overzealousness. These kids should have been better supervised by their father or another adult. It's one thing to allow a 14 year old to go walk a ditch or a fence line and jump shoot some ducks or pheasants alone. And entirely another to send him into the woods with a high-powered rifle in an area frequented by people.
This kid got off so light it makes a mockery of our judicial system. He's not even on probation until he's 18. Maybe he's a good kid, but he KILLED someone for Gods sake!
Though I feel sorry for both families this NEVER should have happened in the first place.
Post by: batch on July 11, 2009, 05:48:12 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on July 12, 2009, 07:09:33 AM
Honest accident... I don't think so. This doesn't even come close to meeting the criteria as an accident. He deliberately aimed at her and pulled the trigger.
Let’s not make any excuses. This was negligence and stupidity, brought on by excitement and overzealousness. These kids should have been better supervised by their father or another adult. It's one thing to allow a 14 year old to go walk a ditch or a fence line and jump shoot some ducks or pheasants alone. And entirely another to send him into the woods with a high-powered rifle in an area frequented by people.
This kid got off so light it makes a mockery of our judicial system. He's not even on probation until he's 18. Maybe he's a good kid, but he KILLED someone for Gods sake!
Though I feel sorry for both families this NEVER should have happened in the first place.
I totally agree with you clindsayrun.
Post by: Ray on July 12, 2009, 07:17:36 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 12, 2009, 08:56:12 AM
Post by: Ray on July 12, 2009, 09:06:03 AM
12 months in a kids home. 30 days in county children's facility. First offense of any kind.
Post by: Hornseeker on July 12, 2009, 10:27:42 AM
His guardians should ALSO be teaching hunters ed With Him....
Post by: sisu on July 12, 2009, 11:39:29 AM
I tell you this believing that the lad who shot the lady should be doing more time with the hunter ed program; assistant instructor in my opinion, going to local schools and talking about gun safety, assisting the fish and wildlife department folks with garbage clean up etc.
But if this is what the judicial system deems an appropriate sentence then that is it.
Post by: bearpaw on July 12, 2009, 12:11:02 PM
Post by: Huntbear on July 12, 2009, 12:16:06 PM
Post by: Airnip on July 12, 2009, 12:25:26 PM
Did find a Superior Court decision about Dale Ammon shot 102 feet away across a meadow six to eight inch tall grass 6:30 on the sunny morning of October 16,1949 by Chester O. Green. Who was denied appeal of his conviction on manslaughter.
Here's a link to that: http://www.mrsc.org/mc/supreme/archive/038wn2d/038wn2d0240.htm
Since shooter Tyler J. Kales is a minor there is no public record of the court proceedings. Without the court records it is very difficult to determine if the punishment is severe enough. Hiker Pamela Almli was bent over to retrieve something from her pack when she was shot.
Post by: Airnip on July 12, 2009, 01:35:16 PM
Here is the prosecutor's document:
http://media.katu.com/documents/081120_probable_cause_affidavit.pdf
Here is one of several newspaper articles:
http://www.kptv.com/news/18026866/detail.html#-
Post by: Mike_D on July 13, 2009, 09:20:22 AM
that was an incredibly light sentence. Even though this was an accident, the punishment should have included at least 100 hours of community service, mandatory hunter education training and instructing, and restitution to the victims family. This would put at least some of the burden on the kids parents as well. I've been a firm believer in adults being partly responsible for the mischief of the children.
anywho... my .02
Post by: hogsniper on July 13, 2009, 09:59:12 AM
Post by: PWN Kurt on July 13, 2009, 06:01:34 PM
They should possibly have him do a PSA to use in hunter safety class.
Kurt
Post by: Nash on July 17, 2009, 12:15:38 AM
Post by: Bama76 on July 17, 2009, 03:30:03 PM
Post by: follow maggie on July 18, 2009, 07:49:02 AM
Post by: tonymoe on July 18, 2009, 08:58:33 AM
I agree that it was a light sentance and feel that he should have got a little more on the community service side but do any of you think that a day will go by the rest of his life that he wont think about what he did and feel terrible about it. Im sure it would be hard as hell just to live with youself knowing you shot a killed a person, I cant even imagine. He will have that punishment until he dies.
+1
I understand that you guys want him to learn his lesson by teaching others what he did, but, honestly, I don't think he has the credentials to be teaching. what the should do is have a penalty panel of some sort and make a video about it. Or have the wrong do'ers attend the hunters ed classes and talk about the story they were involved in. You know, like the victims panel you watch when you get a DUI.
:twocents:
Post by: rainshadow1 on July 18, 2009, 09:27:00 AM
+1
I understand that you guys want him to learn his lesson by teaching others what he did, but, honestly, I don't think he has the credentials to be teaching. what the should do is have a penalty panel of some sort and make a video about it. Or have the wrong do'ers attend the hunters ed classes and talk about the story they were involved in. You know, like the victims panel you watch when you get a DUI.
:twocents:
Great idea, have a video made of the incident, make him tell the story...
Post by: Bob33 on July 21, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
This kid made a mistake that was totally avoidable. End of story on that. He will pay for the rest of his life. I agree the sentence was probably too light.
I'm a hunter education instructor, and believe me: we try out best to instill a sense of safety into each student. Hundreds of these students come out with a great dreaded fear or ever pointing a muzzle at something they don't want to shoot. We hammer them about being sure of their target, and what's beyond.
LIke any human endeavor, there is a chance of one lone student making a mistake, no matter how well they are coached and instructed.
Also, in my opinion the youth are much more safety conscious than some of the adults who think they already "know it all". I'd rather hunt with many of the youth in our classes than some of the adults.
Judgment and maturity with adulthood? Isn't that the same group of people that voted for "hope and change"?
As for this kid teaching in a hunter ed class: no thanks.
Post by: bearpaw on July 22, 2009, 10:07:55 AM
I also agree with tonymoe that the boy should be involved in making a video that can be shown to hunter ed students, that's possibly the one way for some good to come from this sad event.
Post by: bearmanric on July 22, 2009, 12:31:44 PM
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Post by: tonymoe on July 22, 2009, 02:11:22 PM
Let's not forget this fact: in 25 years, only 1 non-hunter has been fatally shot by a hunter in Washington.
thats not a fact. try atleast 2 non-hunters being shot and killed
teacher in camas shot a grass picker just last year (maybe year before)
Post by: rudedawg1085 on July 26, 2009, 08:43:23 PM
#1 lady was within 100 yards when trigger was pulled (not to far where you can see what it is your shooting)
#2 she was wearing a bright blue coat (hard to confuse that with black bear)
#3 did you know after he shot he never went to check what he shot???... wouldent you check to see the "bear" you shot?????
the kid knew it was a lady.....i believe he dident try to shoot her, but over her to scare her. But he knew what he was shooting at when he pulled the triger.
Post by: 50CalJim on July 26, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 26, 2009, 11:53:49 PM
Post by: rudedawg1085 on July 27, 2009, 08:33:34 AM
example
two people on a motorcycle, the driver is SPEEDING going 100mph, you crash and your passanger dies because you were going to fast, would be man slaughter for breaking the law but dident intentionaly kill your passanger
If you were going the SPEEN LIMIT and crashed and your passanger dies its not manslaughter, its just a simply accident cause no law was broke
The kid was he charged for man slaughter in the 2ND cause it wasent an TRUE accident, it wasent a case of mistake identiy, reports say he shot over her head to try and scare her...casue he wasent Intentionaly trying to shoot her its rulled as man slaughter in the 2ND.....
Trsst me I wen to school for this
So sorry 50caljim if i know the facts.....and the bottle hasent been opened yet either, not for another 5 days when I kill my bear
Post by: KillBilly on July 27, 2009, 09:11:04 AM
Tyler J. Kales, then 14, was hunting with his older brother in August when he shot 54-year-old Pamela Almli of Oso, who was trekking on the popular Sauk mountain hiking trail north of Seattle.
Kales, who has since turned 15, apologized to the victim's family at Friday's sentencing and said he hoped they could forgive him.
Kales, of Concrete, was convicted last month of second-degree manslaughter with a firearm".
Rudedawg, if you went to school, did you learn to read? He was found guilty of shooting a hiker he mistook for a bear. Please produce the court documents that state he shot over her head to scare her. I don't believe they exist.
Post by: Bob33 on July 27, 2009, 09:11:45 AM
You are correct. Thanks for the correction.
Post by: rudedawg1085 on July 27, 2009, 03:43:49 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on July 27, 2009, 04:09:55 PM
30 days for an INTENTIONAL shooting!!!! not enough time at all. For starters it wasent a case of mistaken identity. Im sorry but who ever thinks that needs to read the facts. If it was a true mistake the kid would of never of been convicted of man slaughter in the first place, if it was a true mistake he would have been sentanced to nothing and it would of just been rulled an accident...... the facts are simply this
#1 lady was within 100 yards when trigger was pulled (not to far where you can see what it is your shooting)
#2 she was wearing a bright blue coat (hard to confuse that with black bear)
#3 did you know after he shot he never went to check what he shot???... wouldent you check to see the "bear" you shot?????
the kid knew it was a lady.....i believe he dident try to shoot her, but over her to scare her. But he knew what he was shooting at when he pulled the triger.
Wow, you have a weird belief system. If he simply tried to scare her then I would hope he would have been sentenced to more time.
Accident/mistake/tragedy...however you want to phrase it, he killed a human being and deserves more time then he got.
Oh yea, if you saw the news then you would know it wasn't a "bright blue coat". It was blue, but it wasn't bright.
Post by: rudedawg1085 on July 28, 2009, 08:41:30 AM
Post by: KillBilly on July 28, 2009, 10:18:13 AM
hahaha Its odvious KILLBILLY wasent listening....thats my WHOLE POINT, HE WAS FOUND GUILTY BECASUE IT WASENT AN ACCIDENT..you dont setance innocent people to jail, expecially with out a little thing called "beyond a reasonable dought. ..., people still believe it was a case of mistaken identity....which wasent, which is why i started off saying back in this subject "30days is not enough time".....
Dawg, you can't read and you can't spell. I ask you to produce the documents that stated he was attempting to scare her by shooting over her.
We all understand the Law and the law sometimes doesn't serve the public by imposing a sentence that equals the impact of the crime. I don't agree with ruining his life but I believe he deserves a stiffer lesson on life.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 10:27:52 AM
Quote
Trsst me I wen to school for this
went to school for what?
Post by: KillBilly on July 28, 2009, 10:29:25 AM
:yeah:QuoteTrsst me I wen to school for this
went to school for what?
Post by: Ray on July 28, 2009, 10:44:52 AM
Post by: Buckmark on July 28, 2009, 10:57:43 AM
Not for how to use spell checker thats for sure.. :peep::yeah:QuoteTrsst me I wen to school for this
went to school for what?
Post by: MuleySniper on July 28, 2009, 11:03:04 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 28, 2009, 11:31:17 AM
QuoteTrsst me I wen to school for this
went to school for what?
Rudedawg, you don't know what you are talking about. If there were facts to corroborate the story you are telling that he purposefully shot to scare her then he would have been charged with a different crime. Please produce the evidence you have that his action had intent to scare her.
The fact is most of you think this sentence is light, but it is on par with what juveniles get for manslaughter cases. I've done about 10 juvenile manslaughter cases and most get 3 months of home monitoring or a light sentence. Whether that is right or wrong can be debated.
Also, use the spell check. If you want people to take you seriously and talk with you intelligently you can't type like this: "Trsst me I wen to school for this"
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 28, 2009, 11:36:39 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on July 28, 2009, 03:14:44 PM
BILLYTHEKIDROCK......wait i dont really understand, do you agree or disagree??. You say I have a werid belief system but yet you agree with me he should of got more time???
I don't agree with your stating that you believe the kid purposefully tried to scare the women.
Post by: ICEMAN on July 28, 2009, 07:48:44 PM
Post by: chrisb on July 31, 2009, 12:34:50 PM
1. I don't think the kid had any malicious intent, but he got off light.
2. If you aren't old enough to buy a rifle you shouldn't be allowed in the woods without someone who is (parent/gaurdian preferably); If i remember correctly his brother was only 16 right?
3. Why aren't the parents being held responsible?
4. I'm gonna get blasted for this one for sure: If walking/hiking/ biking/ recreating in the woods is your thing then you should know what's happening in those woods. Did she know it was hunting season? Probably not. I'm not saying this is at all in any way her fault, but a higher public awareness of sportsmen in the woods and she may have thought about hiking somewhere else or at least wearing brighter colors. This is our job as ambassadors of our sports to make the public aware of what we are doing out there and when. I work in an office building and there's not a person i woork with that doesn't know now that bear season opens tomorrow and hunters will be out. Not to say that any of them would be out there anyway since there are no video games in the woods but they are aware.
Post by: LongTatLaw on July 31, 2009, 08:03:10 PM
The kid I hurt is still alive today...
so, maybe a lil soft for shooting someone although a sentence of years of confinement would have been unreasonable IMO...
say 8-12 months...long enough to get his *censored* pushed in... :yike: proper punishment for killing somene while they are on a peaceful nature hike IMO
Post by: ICEMAN on July 31, 2009, 08:27:35 PM
... a sentence of years of confinement would have been unreasonable IMO...say 8-12 months...long enough to get his *censored* pushed in...
Crude reply not posted in respect for Longtat..... ;)
Post by: Huntboy on July 31, 2009, 08:42:34 PM
I wouldn't want to open that can of worms.
Post by: LongTatLaw on July 31, 2009, 09:51:31 PM
apparently no training day fans :dunno: