Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 09:59:48 AM
I thought I would take my change, roll it, and use the cash to add to my firearms collection - a kind of "going away present" from me, to me. I am guessing I have 400 to 500 in change built up, and I could add a couple hundred to it if need be.
I currently have the following calibers:
.17 HMR
.22 LR
22.250 Remington
.270 Winchester
30-30 Winchester
30.06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum
I'd like to add a new caliber to the collection rather than get something I already have. I already have the needed calibers to shoot just about anything on the planet with the exception of very large dangerous game like Buffalo - and for that I'd like to get a nice 40+ caliber open sight double someday like a 460 Rigby. But that is out of the budget for now.
I have thought about a the .223, .308 or a .375 H&H. I feel I have the .223 covered with the 22.250, and I'm not sure the .308 does much for me. Given the I already have a 270, 30.06, and 300 WM, the 6mm and 7mm's don't seem to add much versatility to my collection. I like the 300 SUAM, looks like a nice cartridge but very similar to my 300 WM.
I was kinda thinking a .17 Remington would be fun, or maybe a .22 Hornet. Something enjoyable to shoot at the range that does not try to remove my shoulder. The ballistics on the .17 Remington are amazing!
What ideas are out there?
Post by: Woodchuck on July 13, 2009, 10:05:52 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on July 13, 2009, 10:10:22 AM
Post by: HUNT on July 13, 2009, 10:14:32 AM
Great shooter--- Easy to reload, great ballistics....
One of the favorite guns I own.
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 10:25:39 AM
I agree that the short action rounds are attractive...
And don't worry, being that I am departing my job the end of September, I plan on spending all of October and half of November in the field on hunting trips! They could not have cut me loose at a better time.
Post by: whacker1 on July 13, 2009, 10:30:16 AM
Post by: addicted on July 13, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
its 30.06 necked up.
it's like a 35 whelen on steroids. you'll be the only one at the range with it.
shouldnt be too hard to reload. 30.06 brass and bullets that no one else will be buying.
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2009, 10:34:01 AM
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 10:37:24 AM
Picked up my first bow last year (shot a Texas Doll Sheep with it in texas-missed a ferral pig...). Got my first front stuffer this year and I'm playing with that (50 cal white). Also picked up a black powder re-creation handgun that is fun to play with.
I can thank "Moose Eyes" for my ventures into the black arts...
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 10:39:13 AM
how about a shotgun...get into the clays game.
Got a 410, 20, two 16's, two 12's and a 10. I shoot about twice a month at Kenmore. I still suck, but have a lot of fun making noise.
a 28 would be a nice addition though...
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 10:40:07 AM
how about a 9.3x62.
its 30.06 necked up.
Do you have to neck the brass yourself, or can you buy it?
Post by: whacker1 on July 13, 2009, 10:41:58 AM
44 mag
357 mag
45
45-70
etc
Post by: addicted on July 13, 2009, 10:49:47 AM
the ammo manufacturers make the cartridges weak these days because there are so many old old war rifles in this caliber and they dont want a high powered roudn to be put through it. the bullet has a .323 diameter so you will have a heavier range of bullets and if you reload it can surpass a 30.06.
you can neck up the 30.06 brass yourself or you can buy it for 9.3x62. it's a wicked caliber.
Post by: Straight Shooter on July 13, 2009, 11:20:19 AM
Post by: Mookie on July 13, 2009, 11:32:10 AM
Post by: KNOPHISH on July 13, 2009, 11:32:39 AM
Post by: Slider on July 13, 2009, 11:33:10 AM
Post by: Huntbear on July 13, 2009, 11:34:16 AM
Post by: WA Redneck on July 13, 2009, 12:08:44 PM
Post by: addicted on July 13, 2009, 12:13:49 PM
how about one in .338 Federal??
oooo yeah. that'd be a good'n.
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 12:22:36 PM
No one has brought it up, but I like the 25.06's ballistics. Nice and flat.
I kinda like lever actions. The 45-70 listed in the classified section is nice looking. I saw one of those on the range a while back. Very classy looking gun with a big punch. A lever in 357 would be cool, I assume is uses a handgun cartridge?
What are the benefits of an 8mm Mauser, 257 Roberts, or the 6.5 calibers?
I'm liking the idea of the .17 Remington or the .204 Ruger quite a lot.
So many options...
Post by: Straight Shooter on July 13, 2009, 12:30:41 PM
Post by: addicted on July 13, 2009, 12:39:00 PM
I thought about a 454 Casul handgun that I could use for hunting, that would be nice.
What are the benefits
you have a 30-30, 30.06, 300wm and a 338mag. all which thought to be the only caliber one would ever need in their individual times. you have all the base lines covered. at this point it's more moving toward either a specialty caliber, a cool unique caliber, a new favorite, or bigger and better.
an 8x57is/js(8mm mauser) may benifit in the fact that ammo is still available and it it can be loaded for medium and very large game with a very heavy bullet.
as stated before a 17fireball or a 204 would be flat as it gets and save the pelt.
the benifits of a 6.5mm (257) is that it would be on the lower end of the scale for big game making it still sutable for small game while still legal and perfectly worthy of big game
really the best advice is to buy 2 of everthing.
Post by: rasbo on July 13, 2009, 12:39:33 PM
Post by: Mookie on July 13, 2009, 01:06:04 PM
A Ruger 77/22H, CZ 527 in 22H, or a Savage 40 in 22H would also be a great varmint or small game rifle, plus would hold it's value over a long period of time.
Post by: HUNT on July 13, 2009, 01:17:24 PM
My .204 is a remington 700 varmint stainless with the bull barrel.....
Good luck
Post by: Rob on July 13, 2009, 01:28:42 PM
I assume the 22H is a .22 Hornet? (centerfire?)
Don't know why, but I am not drawn to assult rifles. Nothing against them at all - I have shot a few and they are a lot of fun, lots of modifications and customizations you can play with, etc. For me they just don't have the same romantic draw that a nice bolt action sitting on top of a beautiful wood stock does.
And pardon my total ignorance, but what is a 10/22? I have heard of them, but never seen one. I assume it is a centerfire 22 caliber rifle?
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2009, 01:33:17 PM
tons o' fun.
Post by: Clipboard guy on July 13, 2009, 03:28:00 PM
Is the .17 Remington and the .17 fireball the same cartridge?
And pardon my total ignorance, but what is a 10/22? I have heard of them, but never seen one. I assume it is a centerfire 22 caliber rifle?
No the .17 Fireball has a shorter & fatter casing than the .17 Remington.
The Ruger 10/22 rifle is the Model #. Shoots regular .22 Long rifle. IMO one of the funner (and cheaper) guns to shoot.
Post by: Gutpile on July 13, 2009, 03:30:51 PM
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Rifle&subtype=Autoloading&famlst=39&variation=10/22%C2%AE%20Rimfire
Post by: Gutpile on July 13, 2009, 03:33:59 PM
.22 LR
>A .204 Ruger belongs here<
22.250 Remington
>A 25-06, 257 Roberts, or a 260 Rem belongs here<
.270 Winchester
>A 7mm Rem Mag belongs here<
30-30 Winchester
30.06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum
>A 45-70 belongs here<
There's to many to list !!! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 13, 2009, 03:47:07 PM
Quote
Wow, I had never heard of a .204 Ruger.
What? You been hiding under a rock or something?
Ever thought about a wildcat? How about a .300STW?
.444Marlin! in the stainless guide gun.
-Steve
Post by: huntnphool on July 13, 2009, 03:48:21 PM
Post by: Gutpile on July 13, 2009, 03:51:45 PM
.257 Roberts :tup:, you might take a look at the 25-06 as well, and a 7mm to fill in the gaps. :twocents:
Good call phool.
Post by: Curly on July 13, 2009, 03:53:01 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2009, 03:54:47 PM
.257 Roberts :tup:, you might take a look at the 25-06 as well, and a 7mm to fill in the gaps. :twocents:
or a .257 weatherby magnum :IBCOOL:
Post by: denali on July 13, 2009, 09:28:09 PM
308 cal. several configurations, kinda cool think.
Post by: littlebuf on July 13, 2009, 09:45:33 PM
Post by: Jamieb on July 13, 2009, 10:11:12 PM
Do you reload? That would really influence what new rifle/cartridge I'd pick.
A few hundred in disposable money can go a long ways towards upgrading hunting gear.
How you doing in the optics area, scopes, bino's, spotter?
Hunting clothes/boots, pack?
If your looking for a fun cheap to shoot rifle for the range its hard to beat a .223. Ammo and reloading components available everywhere, easy to load for, little recoil, and pretty much every rifle manufacturer makes the .223 in models rangeing from short light to long bbl heavy varminters.
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2009, 10:32:59 AM
I think after all the advice I'm going to look at a 204 Ruger. I do reload and they are very cheap to load for (assuming I can find small rifle primers). It looks to beat the 223 ballistically, and comparable to the 22.250, only a little flatter. It will make for a fun addition to the collection. I hear the 17 Remington, while nice, gunks up the barrel pretty bad. The 17 fireball is suppose to be better with regards to barrel fouling but I like the ballistics on the 204 better.
Now I just need to pick a gun... I'd like a wood stock, heavy barrel and smooth trigger. Remington and Savage both make a nice thumbhole that meets those requirements. I looked at a cooper last night at Adventure Sports that was an amazing gun, but it is a single shot and I really want a magazine. Was rather pretty spendy too.
I don't know much about twist rates, any recommendations for a proper twist rate for a long range 204 Ruger?
Thanks for all the recommendations, I would not have even considered the 204 Ruger before this thread.
Post by: Straight Shooter on July 14, 2009, 10:43:47 AM
I'm pretty well set on gear and optics. Guns last for generations so that's why I'd like to put the spare change there. A shotgun would be nice, but I have all gauges but 28 right now. The only temptation would be a customizable over/under trap gun - that's out of budget but knowing me I'll probably blow my budget so I'll be watching for one of those too.
I think after all the advice I'm going to look at a 204 Ruger. I do reload and they are very cheap to load for (assuming I can find small rifle primers). It looks to beat the 223 ballistically, and comparable to the 22.250, only a little flatter. It will make for a fun addition to the collection. I hear the 17 Remington, while nice, gunks up the barrel pretty bad. The 17 fireball is suppose to be better with regards to barrel fouling but I like the ballistics on the 204 better.
Now I just need to pick a gun... I'd like a wood stock, heavy barrel and smooth trigger. Remington and Savage both make a nice thumbhole that meets those requirements. I looked at a cooper last night at Adventure Sports that was an amazing gun, but it is a single shot and I really want a magazine. Was rather pretty spendy too.
I don't know much about twist rates, any recommendations for a proper twist rate for a long range 204 Ruger?
Thanks for all the recommendations, I would not have even considered the 204 Ruger before this thread.
I've also been looking into the .204 Ruger. The only real concern I have is wind drift due to the lighter bullets. I really like the Remington VTR.
Post by: Curly on July 14, 2009, 10:51:47 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 14, 2009, 11:23:19 AM
Another great choice that the other guys mentioned is the 25:06 or 257 WBY, and a 280 or 7mm mag. Or any gun you can find a good deal on.... :chuckle:
Definitely another subject of great opinion.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 14, 2009, 12:16:26 PM
Quote
I looked at a cooper last night
Hah! There went the budget! :chuckle:
I'll second the .375H&H. You've got enough varmint type calibers there. If it was my safe that I was filling, I'd be looking bigger bore than your list indicates.
-Steve
Post by: addicted on July 14, 2009, 12:32:46 PM
Post by: andrew_12gauge on July 14, 2009, 12:34:37 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 14, 2009, 12:37:28 PM
Quote
a cool one to pass through the family(handgun) would be a Dan Wesson SuperMag.
Passed/passing through my family.
Ok, not a .445, (I'd love to have one of them...)
A c c u r a t e
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
I thought about a 375 H&H. And if I saw one I could not live without I might change my mind. Believe me it is on the short list. But honestly I want a break action double 416 Rigby or 460 Weatherby for my dangerous game rifle.
My Dad has a nice Sako 375 H&H.
You have all shown me the clear hole in my collection is a 25 caliber something or another. I'll definitely need to plug it.
I'm very drawn to the 204 Ruger though.
So I guess the short list would be:
204 Ruger (first choice)
25 caliber rifle (257/25-06, etc)
Over under trap 12 gauge
375 H&H.
Pretty mixed bag of options...
Post by: andrew_12gauge on July 14, 2009, 01:29:29 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2009, 01:32:14 PM
:)
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2009, 01:55:48 PM
i can make you a sweet deal on a krieghoff k80 if you want an over/under.
Why do I get the feeling that similar to getting a great deal on a 65 foot yacht...
Post by: HUNT on July 14, 2009, 02:02:21 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 14, 2009, 02:09:47 PM
i can make you a sweet deal on a krieghoff k80 if you want an over/under.
Why do I get the feeling that similar to getting a great deal on a 65 foot yacht...
:chuckle:
Post by: Rob on July 14, 2009, 03:00:59 PM
You will definately shoot a 204 ruger more than any of the other choices you narrowed it down to. If you need help on starting loads to reload for the 204 let me know... I can help you out....
Well, I'll start rolling my coins now, and the journey to find one will begin. If I find one I'll reach out for some load data.
Why do I think finding the rifle will be 10x easier than finding small rifle primers! I started loading in March and it has taken me 4 months to stock up on all the equipment and supplies needed to load for my existing library...
Keeps me out of trouble though!
Post by: Da stump on July 14, 2009, 03:36:43 PM
Post by: Remmark on July 14, 2009, 10:09:52 PM
What about a different type of rifle like a Browning BAR, Remington Pump (35 Whelan)?
Have fun choosing.
Post by: cascademountainhunter on July 14, 2009, 10:15:13 PM
Post by: lamar_hunter on July 14, 2009, 10:18:28 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 14, 2009, 11:32:32 PM
Now, to look over Gutpile's suggestions...
Quote
.17 HMR
.22 LR
>A .204 Ruger belongs here<
22.250 Remington
>A 25-06, 257 Roberts, or a 260 Rem belongs here<
.270 Winchester
>A 7mm Rem Mag belongs here<
30-30 Winchester
30.06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum
>A 45-70 belongs here<
Everything I've heard is that the .204 Ruger is tempermental. Kinda like the 30 Herret. Either perfect or... It's not. You've already got the 22-250. What you're missing is a .223 in a heavy barreled Savage single shot bolt action.
Or if you really want a tack driver, You need a 6mm BR.
Regarding the 7mm mag.. There nothing it will do that the 30-06 won't do. So, the .25 cal comes back in play. I would pick 25-06. Capable of sending varmint bullets in the 4,000fps range. Or, still capable of hunting Deer with heavier bullets. Buy it in a Savage or a Marlin XL7, and have a smith ream it for 25-06 Ackley Improved for even more velocity.
45-70.. ? Not. I still gotta stay with my first selection. .444 Marlin.
-Steve
Post by: Rob on July 16, 2009, 09:15:23 AM
I am thinking of blowing my budget and getting a cooper. Originally I kinda wanted something other than a single shot, but that is getting a more appealing to me. Keeping the budget under 1500, what other folks look at?
I want a nice wood stock, excellent trigger and a heavy barrel. Green field beyond that.
The CZ's are nice, as is the Rem Mod 700. And I like the Savage rifles with the accutrigger too.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 16, 2009, 10:51:10 AM
If I was looking for a heavy barreled varmint rifle, I'd go with the Savage. -Best bang for the buck and there are countless barrels available for them if you want to change caliber/cartridge some day. -And, anyone with vise/gun vise, Savage spanner wrench and head space guage can change the barrel.
-Steve
Post by: adam.WI on July 16, 2009, 11:04:24 AM
Post by: Rob on July 16, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Had not considered a TC... I'll look at them.
The coopers are suppose to shoot 1/2 inch groups from a controled bench with match grad ammo and they provide a target.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 16, 2009, 12:13:56 PM
-Steve
Post by: jackelope on July 16, 2009, 01:05:18 PM
i have the 300 win mag barrel and 22-250 barrel, all stainless.
Post by: norsepeak on July 16, 2009, 03:52:00 PM
Post by: smdave on July 17, 2009, 12:02:02 AM
a cool one to pass through the family(handgun) would be a Dan Wesson SuperMag. get a stainless one. maybe the .445 supermag.
You keep treating my daughter right and these can be yours one day.
375 Supermag, the one and only 460 Supermag, 445 Supermag, and 357 Supermag
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myhostedpics.com%2Fimages%2F445SMDave%2Fall4.jpg&hash=162ddff1c187b9305dbc30586db3a4b1aae4e5bc)
Dave
Post by: Mookie on July 17, 2009, 03:08:03 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 17, 2009, 03:20:52 PM
Got any more daughters?
I've got a couple of boys... :chuckle:
-S
Post by: addicted on July 18, 2009, 02:12:13 AM
SMDAVE,
Got any more daughters?
I've got a couple of boys... :chuckle:
-S
I snagged the last daughter and the other son in law prolly wouldn't know how to load em.
Post by: Rob on July 22, 2009, 09:34:01 AM
CAN'T WAIT!!
Now I just need to find a #16 Hornady shell plate, and a box of small rifle primers... Talk about mission impossible...
Post by: bearpaw on July 22, 2009, 09:52:04 AM
Post by: huntnphool on July 22, 2009, 09:57:59 AM
OK, I ordered a Cooper Montana Varminter in 204 Ruger
What a tack driver thats going to be, Cooper makes some outstanding weapons, congrats!!!!!
Post by: coop2424 on July 22, 2009, 09:59:02 AM
Those primers are going to be toughest of all. I have been looking for the same thing and everyone is out.... :dunno:
I know that I was in White Elephant on Division in Spokane on Thursday of last week and they had them. I also heard they got a huge shipment in of them.
Post by: Rob on July 22, 2009, 10:04:50 AM
Here is the photo of the three round group from the gun I ordered... I think even I may be able to shoot this gun with reasonable accuracy!
Post by: HUNT on July 22, 2009, 10:05:09 AM
Post by: addicted on July 25, 2009, 09:33:54 AM
I'm tempted to drive to Spokane to pick some up! It's only 11 hours round trip... Good motorcycle time...
Here is the photo of the three round group from the gun I ordered... I think even I may be able to shoot this gun with reasonable accuracy!
Cant they get it to shoot any better? the hole is all raggedy :chuckle:
that whole budget idea of yours was over rated anyways lol
Post by: Rob on July 27, 2009, 08:15:12 AM
Regarding the budget; I'm just glad I have an understanding wife!
I'll be topping it with a Nikon Monarch 6-24 50 mm. The gun is supposed to arrive today, I'll be bugging out of work early to go get it.
Hunt: Send you a pm and I really appreciate both the offer to send me the load info, as well as the primer offer. I managed to find some at Sportco, and I found a shell plate at Cabelas (mental note: just because they don't have any available to order on-line does NOT mean the Lacy store is out of stock).
Post by: HUNT on July 27, 2009, 08:25:22 AM
You might want to pick up a smaller powder funnel also. The neck is quite a bit smaller than anything else. It makes it much nicer to have a funnel that fits. :twocents:
Post by: Rob on July 27, 2009, 09:03:07 AM
I bet metering is a bit more difficult. I have trouble with some of the longer extruded powders when loading for my 22.250 already.
Post by: Rob on July 27, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on July 27, 2009, 06:10:00 PM
Post by: Slider on July 28, 2009, 08:21:31 AM
Post by: Rob on July 31, 2009, 10:01:00 AM
I had to move the scope on the rings after I got it back from the shop, and did not have a bore sighter so I started off way off paper (thank goodness for dry dirt banks...). It also took me a few shots to realize that the scope adjustment was 1 click = 1/8th of an inch rather than the standard 1 click = 1/4 of an inch so that slowed me down too. Those two issues caused me to take a full 10 rounds to get her sighted in.
I then shot 10 sets (mostly 3 shot sets- all at 100 yards).
I took a total of 47 shots:
=>20 Factory Remington Acutip 40 grains (10 were used to sight in)
=>20 Factory Hornady 32 grain V-Max
=>7 hand loads (32 grain Hornady V-Max with Varget, 4@28 grains, and 3@ 29 grains)
Wow. This rifle is great. My average group size across all ten sets was .73 inches. My largest group was a six shot set using Factory loads from Hornady: 1.25 inches. (see first target photo). I had one four shot set with my hand loads that had a 3/4 inch group size (see second target photo), and I was very impressed with the 40 grain Remington Acutips: groups ranging from .625 inches all the way down to a ragged 4 shot group of 1/4 inch!! My best group ever with any rifle! (see last photo). not all that pleased with the Hornady loads. All of the other loads were sub MOA, but 4 of the 5 sets using the Hornady factory loads were over 1 inch.
I was a little rushed as I only had 1.5 hours to shoot and the manual said I needed to clean the barrel after every shot for the first 20 rounds. I will be taking her out this weekend so I can be more relaxed and will be getting my hand loads over the chrony so I can see how they are performing there. I expect that my groups will grow a bit as I prefer to do 5 shot sets rather than 3 shot sets.
Post by: HUNT on July 31, 2009, 10:17:09 AM
I know me and I'm sure I'll never see same hole groupings, but its nice to see that the rifle can do it.
Told ya it was a great round..... Sounds like you have a great rifle.
Post by: addicted on August 02, 2009, 09:23:35 AM
Post by: Rob on August 04, 2009, 10:48:02 AM
It shoots like a dream. I have put about 210 rounds through her so far, and have data for 195 of those shots.
At 100 yards, my groups are .25 to 1.25 inches. At 200 yards, I am getting .625 to 3 inches, and at 300 yards I am seeing 2.5 to 4.25 inches. 22 of my 42 sets are at or below one inch!
For the record, I'm not bragging on my skills here. This is ALL the gun. All I need to do is move to any of my 30 cal or higher rifles for a humility lesson and to see my groups double or triple in size!
Here is the data table from the 204.
Thanks again!
Post by: HUNT on August 04, 2009, 11:33:37 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 04, 2009, 11:48:19 AM