Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:41:50 AM
Post by: Curly on July 25, 2009, 08:49:09 AM
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
Post by: tlbradford on July 25, 2009, 09:18:20 AM
Post by: addicted on July 25, 2009, 09:30:32 AM
I voted for WSSM. There is a lot on the list that are under rated, but overrated......I don't know....they all have their place (except for the WSSM :))
:yeah:
it's gotta be the 30.06. I mean come on. if its such a great cartridge then why did the 100 pound wild boar i shot drop to the ground, twitch then squeel for a second before dying. It should have at least died quietly or walked over to the truck first so that i didnt have to drag that sucker. It has WAY too many bullet options and it is always hard to find ammo for. I dont even know why I keep using it.
Post by: huntnphool on July 25, 2009, 09:46:49 AM
Post by: addicted on July 25, 2009, 09:50:59 AM
I voted WSSM. Gotta tell ya Gutpile I think you are drunk on the .243 though. Its the smallest caliber allowed in a lot of states and when you are trying to introduce young hunters or women to the sport you want a caliber that is not going to scare them when shooting, the .243 is perfect for small/young hunters and can be found at any sporting goods store. :twocents: ;)
as well as fast and flat.
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 09:53:19 AM
Post by: Curly on July 25, 2009, 09:58:22 AM
The WSSM are pretty effecient but not a new concept. The .284 has been around forever.
Yeah, I have a .284 Win.......but it is really a WSM, not a WSSM. I like the WSM's but I just can't stand the WSSM's. I never can understand why they make a 25WSSM but not a WSM?
Post by: huntnphool on July 25, 2009, 09:59:38 AM
Quote
my son just looked at your avatar pic and said.."whoaaaaaa, what's wrong with her
LMAO, good luck with that.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
OK I can't fit all of them in here but these are popular cartridges that some people will think are over rated. So, let the games begin. What will be the most over rated cartridge?? You have 5 choices. My top vote is the lowly 243. Flame on boys.
Gotta disagree with the .243...one of the greatest, most versatile deer/antelope/ varmint rounds out there. Easy to load for, inherently accurate, and awesome selection of bullets.
The only WSM that has any ballistic advantage over its "standard" counterpart is the 270 WSM which spanks the old 270 winsh*tter by about 250 fps.
TL - the 22-250? The king of varmint cartidges? How about the 220 swift? And, since when is a 22-250 a long action cartidge? Braced for shock.... :chuckle:
My vote - 30-378 weatherby - expensive to shoot, crappy factory rifle selection....I have seen more $6-7 dollar shots wasted at the range with this bad boy than any other cartridge. You really need a custom rig with a 30" pipe and some big bullets (220+) to see the true capabilities of this round :twocents:
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2009, 12:00:43 PM
The WSSM are pretty effecient but not a new concept. The .284 has been around forever.
Yeah, I have a .284 Win.......but it is really a WSM, not a WSSM. I like the WSM's but I just can't stand the WSSM's. I never can understand why they make a 25WSSM but not a WSM?
There is already one, it is the .257 Ackley Improved. I get 25-06 ballistics out of mine, with a lot less powder.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 12:15:46 PM
Quote
Yeah, I have a .284 Win.......but it is really a WSM, not a WSSM. I like the WSM's but I just can't stand the WSSM's. I never can understand why they make a 25WSSM but not a WSM?
:yeah:
I was waiting for a 25 WSM to come out, when it came out it was a WSSM, total waste compared to what's already on the market. I went and bought another 257 WBY.
Post by: PolarBear on July 25, 2009, 12:23:32 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 12:40:24 PM
The only thing I don't really understand is why a manufacturer brings out something new that really has no advantage over what's already on the market. :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on July 25, 2009, 12:44:45 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 01:15:41 PM
Post by: tlbradford on July 25, 2009, 01:16:00 PM
TL - the 22-250? The king of varmint cartidges? How about the 220 swift? And, since when is a 22-250 a long action cartidge? Braced for shock.... :chuckle:
Ya caught me. I had .25-06 on the brain when I was typing.
Post by: ICEMAN on July 25, 2009, 01:42:43 PM
Sorry guys, just sick of the fascination about the round. Big whoopee doo.
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2009, 01:45:12 PM
Most any of those guns are perfectly fine....for many different reasons they all have their place.
The only thing I don't really understand is why a manufacturer brings out something new that really has no advantage over what's already on the market. :dunno:
So gun
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 01:46:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 02:30:57 PM
30-06.
Sorry guys, just sick of the fascination about the round. Big whoopee doo.
I don't think the 30-06 is better than many of the other cartridges, but a guy could get by just fine with a 30-06 for big game in North America, and nothing else. Plus with ammo available anywhere and sometimes for as low as $12/box, you just can't beat it. Having said that, I do the majority of my hunting with a 270 Win.
Post by: Bofire on July 25, 2009, 02:57:42 PM
interesting poll
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2009, 03:09:20 PM
Have I taken long shots? You bet, and like all of us, I brag about them. However, before all these magnums, and super mags, and short mags came along, our fathers and grandfathers got along just fine with a 25-35, .300 Savage, .303 british, .45-70 and yes even the 06. It is a wonder any game bigger than a jackrabbit was ever killed. I mean, how can you kill an elk if the bullet is not travelling at warp speed? :rolleyes:
But like I said before, it would be boring if we all drove GT 500 Mustangs, or Mini vans.
Post by: huntnphool on July 25, 2009, 03:23:28 PM
Quote
it would be boring if we all drove GT 500 Mustangs, or Mini vans.
Oh God, please don't let BO's plan work. :chuckle:
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2009, 03:47:57 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 25, 2009, 04:18:36 PM
Quote
I can see us all out going hunting in a super small mini cooper
:chuckle:
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2009, 04:29:59 PM
My dad, and 3 other adults, their gear, 2 elk boned out and stuffed in all the compartments, and 3 deer strapped to the outside in a 63 Volkswagon Bug. That car stunk like deer and elk for a month, from what I was told :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 04:38:04 PM
In my opinion a knowledgeable hunter knows that some weapons are better than others for certain situations and a "real hunter" can effectively hunt with whatever they have in their hands, whether it's a camera, bow, 30/30, shotgun, or 30/378. :twocents:
Post by: huntingfool7 on July 25, 2009, 05:15:23 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 05:30:23 PM
I must admit I have seen two different elk shot at over 700 with 30:06. But those guys are a class of shooters who do not like to shoot game unless it's at least 500+.
Another guy who shoots 300 mag plans to kill his elk again this year at 500-1000. He says he will pass every close shot until we get the long shot. Shooting is what he does for a living and the close shots are not sporting to him. But he shoots better at 1000 than most guys at 300.
It's a matter of preference and ability. :twocents:
Post by: huntingfool7 on July 25, 2009, 05:40:24 PM
I did not mean to say it wasn't possible to kill well at extended ranges with a 7mm just that the round has a dreamy lack of reality to a lot of guys.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 06:00:11 PM
Post by: ivarhusa on July 25, 2009, 06:20:44 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on July 25, 2009, 06:38:57 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 06:59:13 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 07:25:36 PM
Post by: madmack76 on July 25, 2009, 07:32:04 PM
Post by: jdb on July 25, 2009, 07:36:23 PM
I was wondering if I read it wrong or if some of the others are reading it wrong. Was surpprised to see so many don't like the 7mm. That is a great all around gun that is one of the most popular calibers sold today.I didnt vote for the 7mm but would if I had to do over. several people made good arguements for it as most overrated. Now that said I think its a damned fine cartridge and a man who owns one is as well armed as could be, but it really offers very little practicle advantage over the 270 or 280.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 07:38:38 PM
i have a 300wsm that kicks less than my 308 and 270
:bs: :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
30-06.
Sorry guys, just sick of the fascination about the round. Big whoopee doo.
30-06 is the greates cartridge of all time. Not the greastest round but greatest cartridge.
With out the 30-06 we wouldn't have such rounds as the 25-06, .270, 338-06, 35 whelan .375 hawk .411 hawk. And the list goes on and on and on. Those are just a few of my favorites.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 07:46:55 PM
I am a bit impressed that so many recognize the over hype of the 7mm rem mag. I hear it talked up ALOT, it aint much folks.
interesting poll
Not a lot of non ultra mags of short mags that are standard that can shoot a 160gr bullet over 3000fps. Or a 175 just under 3000fps. A .300 win mag shoots a 180 at just under 3000fps for comparison.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 07:49:20 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
You're kiding right?
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 07:50:15 PM
Quote
but it really offers very little practicle advantage over the 270 or 280.
I will agree it does not offer a great advantage over a 280, maybe another 50-100 yards of range, but I think the 7mm has a significant advantage over the 270 because of the larger bullets and longer range combined. :twocents:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 07:53:48 PM
Post by: jdb on July 25, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
you re right the heavier bullet gives it some advantage especially on bigger game such as elk or mooseQuotebut it really offers very little practical advantage over the 270 or 280.
I will agree it does not offer a great advantage over a 280, maybe another 50-100 yards of range, but I think the 7mm has a significant advantage over the 270 because of the larger bullets and longer range combined. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 07:54:54 PM
WTBY did the same sort of thing with their cases and so did Winchester with the Short Mags, etc., except they all shoot faster than the 06 calibers.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 07:57:17 PM
Quote
you re right the heavier bullet gives it some advantage especially on bigger game such as elk or moose
bear is where I see the most difference, a 270 is smaller than I recommend for bear.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 08:00:56 PM
Quote
I don't know why I am defending the 7mag, i'm not a fan. But when you compare it to a lot of cartridges it out preforms ballisticly most cartridges.
I can tell you from watching many hundreds of animals being taken with nearly every concievable caliber, the 7mag does the most with the least bullet. I highly recommend it on anything in the lower 48.
Another thing about the 7mag and 300 win mag, they are both very accurate calibers, most guns put out good groups.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:03:30 PM
I am a bit impressed that so many recognize the over hype of the 7mm rem mag. I hear it talked up ALOT, it aint much folks.
interesting poll
Not a lot of non ultra mags of short mags that are standard that can shoot a 160gr bullet over 3000fps. Or a 175 just under 3000fps. A .300 win mag shoots a 180 at just under 3000fps for comparison.
I don't know where you got your data, but you are missing a good 150 fps on the 300 WM and a 180. On a different note, the 7mm is a beauty when mated with a 160+ grain hunting or target bullet at 3050 or so. These bullets have extremely high B.C.'s, and, when mated with the 7mm Mag, make a deadly combination - especially when you take into account that it's recoil is relatively mild when compared to the big 7's and big 30's which nearly all need brakes to be shot comfortably with comparable B.C. bullets at similar speeds. :twocents:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:07:30 PM
I am a bit impressed that so many recognize the over hype of the 7mm rem mag. I hear it talked up ALOT, it aint much folks.
interesting poll
Not a lot of non ultra mags of short mags that are standard that can shoot a 160gr bullet over 3000fps. Or a 175 just under 3000fps. A .300 win mag shoots a 180 at just under 3000fps for comparison.
I don't know where you got your data, but you are missing a good 150 fps on the 300 WM and a 180. On a different note, the 7mm is a beauty when mated with a 160+ grain hunting or target bullet at 3050 or so. These bullets have extremely high B.C.'s, and, when mated with the 7mm Mag, make a deadly combination - especially when you take into account that it's recoil is relatively mild when compared to the big 7's and big 30's which nearly all need brakes to be shot comfortably with comparable B.C. bullets at similar speeds. :twocents:
I don't know where you're getting your information but factory .300 ammunition won't get 3000fps.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:09:04 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:10:09 PM
I don't shoot factory, and sure as hell wouldn't spend to time to chrono it unless you are buying large quantities from the same lot?
Most people due.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:11:12 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
You're kiding right?
No, not kidding. If you consider how far most people shoot their game, probably very rarely over 300 yards, the 7 Mag. does not kill any better or show any significant difference in trajectory. It's not until you get to around 400 yards where you really see any practical difference over the 30-06.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:14:20 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
You're kiding right?
No, not kidding. If you consider how far most people shoot their game, probably very rarely over 300 yards, the 7 Mag. does not kill any better or show any significant difference in trajectory. It's not until you get to around 400 yards where you really see any practical difference over the 30-06.
So the 7mm does or doesn't have anything on the 30-06 makeup your mind.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:15:48 PM
And, I would make a bet that the premium ammo will do it - in fact, i would be willing to waste $40 just to see.
Do a search on factory .300 velocities. Most will tell you 2980 or less. Shot it through a chony with a 24 inch barrel and you will get a hair over 2900.
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:20:53 PM
Post by: Bofire on July 25, 2009, 08:21:53 PM
If I need a gun bigger than a 270/06/280 Iwant a 300WM or bigger. With the 175 the 7mm mag is about an 06. but with more recoil, short barrel life and muzzle blast. Yes I have shot the barrel out of a 7mm mag.
I am not saying a 7 mag wont kill game, I am saying it is over hyped, people think it shoots like a lazer, it dont.
Carl
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:26:40 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
You're kiding right?
No, not kidding. If you consider how far most people shoot their game, probably very rarely over 300 yards, the 7 Mag. does not kill any better or show any significant difference in trajectory. It's not until you get to around 400 yards where you really see any practical difference over the 30-06.
So the 7mm does or doesn't have anything on the 30-06 makeup your mind.
A couple hundred feet per second is what it has over the 30-06. Which makes it as good as the 30-06, but not significantly better. And not better at all unless you're shooting over 300 yards. Just my opinion. If you like it, use it. If not, don't.
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:29:07 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 08:30:36 PM
too frickin funny..................
actually bofire you are right, but loaded correctly I think you can beat the .280 by 100 to 200 fps with the 7mag. Don't get me wrong, I like the 280, I think it's the best utilization of the 06 case, there are several in my family and the barrels will last longer than the 7 mag.
I also agree with the remark that the 300 mags are the best way to go. I have the 300WM, 300 wby, 300 RUM, and 30/378. They all are deadly killers. The last two are amazingly flat shooting, but at significant loss of barrel life. I am not going to spend many days prairie dog shooting with them..... :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:32:15 PM
Where did you come up with this stuff? A .280 is not within 50 fps of a 7mag. .280 150gr bullet gets 2900 at best more like 2850. 7mag with a 150 gets almost 3100. With a 175 its closer to a .300 than an 06. A 180 06 is a little more than 2800fps. 7mag with a 175 will go way well over 2900. Anytime you do a lot of shooting with a cartridge that goes over 3000fps you will shoot the barrel out. A couple of the worst are the .264 or the 25-06.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:32:46 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 08:34:27 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:34:36 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
You're kiding right?
No, not kidding. If you consider how far most people shoot their game, probably very rarely over 300 yards, the 7 Mag. does not kill any better or show any significant difference in trajectory. It's not until you get to around 400 yards where you really see any practical difference over the 30-06.
So the 7mm does or doesn't have anything on the 30-06 makeup your mind.
A couple hundred feet per second is what it has over the 30-06. Which makes it as good as the 30-06, but not significantly better. And not better at all unless you're shooting over 300 yards. Just my opinion. If you like it, use it. If not, don't.
That is a very interesting argument. Tell me what's better a hammer or a screw driver. I can't wait for this answer.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:37:48 PM
And, I would make a bet that the premium ammo will do it - in fact, i would be willing to waste $40 just to see.
Do a search on factory .300 velocities. Most will tell you 2980 or less. Shot it through a chony with a 24 inch barrel and you will get a hair over 2900.
I rely on what my chrono tells me after 10 years and 3, 300 win mags.....I can't see new factory ammo to be that far behind? Here is the first premium ammo I looked up (Okay, not the first, but it helps my side of the argument :chuckle::
300 WIN MAG 180 GR Spire Point HEAVY MAG 8500
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3840 2872/3296 2655/2817 2448/2396 2251/2025 2063/1701
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.40 0.00 -6.3 -18.4 -37.4
That being said, you are right in the fact that custom ammo can be faster than factory.....I have not chrono'ed every brand of factory ammo (or any factory ammo for that matter), so I can't argue with you. But, I will argue with the mentality of someone buying a .300 win mag and going with a 24" pipe and strictly shooting factory ammo? Like putting a governor on a sports car - you buy magnum rifles for maximum capability - high performance is what you want, if not, you'd shoot a naught 6. :chuckle: Too much golfing and drinking today, so if this doesn't make any sense - please disregard :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:39:18 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:40:14 PM
And, I would make a bet that the premium ammo will do it - in fact, i would be willing to waste $40 just to see.
Do a search on factory .300 velocities. Most will tell you 2980 or less. Shot it through a chony with a 24 inch barrel and you will get a hair over 2900.
I rely on what my chrono tells me after 10 years and 3, 300 win mags.....I can't see new factory ammo to be that far behind? Here is the first premium ammo I looked up (Okay, not the first, but it helps my side of the argument :chuckle::
300 WIN MAG 180 GR Spire Point HEAVY MAG 8500
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3840 2872/3296 2655/2817 2448/2396 2251/2025 2063/1701
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.40 0.00 -6.3 -18.4 -37.4
That being said, you are right in the fact that custom ammo can be faster than factory.....I have not chrono'ed every brand of factory ammo (or any factory ammo for that matter), so I can't argue with you. But, I will argue with the mentality of someone buying a .300 win mag and going with a 24" pipe and strictly shooting factory ammo? Like putting a governor on a sports car - you buy magnum rifles for maximum capability - high performance is what you want, if not, you'd shoot a naught 6. :chuckle: Too much golfing and drinking today, so if this doesn't make any sense - please disregard :chuckle:
How many did you find first that said less than 3000 be honest.
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:41:00 PM
Quote
A couple of the worst are the .264 or the 25-06.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I Love any and all 6.5's
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:41:53 PM
QuoteA couple of the worst are the .264 or the 25-06.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I Any and 6.5's
I must be missing something here what are you trying to say?
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:42:31 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:43:48 PM
too excited go back. :chuckle:
I'm still missing it. :dunno:
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:45:41 PM
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:46:46 PM
And, I would make a bet that the premium ammo will do it - in fact, i would be willing to waste $40 just to see.
Do a search on factory .300 velocities. Most will tell you 2980 or less. Shot it through a chony with a 24 inch barrel and you will get a hair over 2900.
I rely on what my chrono tells me after 10 years and 3, 300 win mags.....I can't see new factory ammo to be that far behind? Here is the first premium ammo I looked up (Okay, not the first, but it helps my side of the argument :chuckle::
300 WIN MAG 180 GR Spire Point HEAVY MAG 8500
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3840 2872/3296 2655/2817 2448/2396 2251/2025 2063/1701
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.40 0.00 -6.3 -18.4 -37.4
That being said, you are right in the fact that custom ammo can be faster than factory.....I have not chrono'ed every brand of factory ammo (or any factory ammo for that matter), so I can't argue with you. But, I will argue with the mentality of someone buying a .300 win mag and going with a 24" pipe and strictly shooting factory ammo? Like putting a governor on a sports car - you buy magnum rifles for maximum capability - high performance is what you want, if not, you'd shoot a naught 6. :chuckle: Too much golfing and drinking today, so if this doesn't make any sense - please disregard :chuckle:
How many did you find first that said less than 3000 be honest.
Most were 2960.......but this was the FIRST load that I found. :chuckle: I went directly to the hornady website. I also have my Reloading Manuals and my Nightforce program open...... :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:48:53 PM
And, I would make a bet that the premium ammo will do it - in fact, i would be willing to waste $40 just to see.
Do a search on factory .300 velocities. Most will tell you 2980 or less. Shot it through a chony with a 24 inch barrel and you will get a hair over 2900.
I rely on what my chrono tells me after 10 years and 3, 300 win mags.....I can't see new factory ammo to be that far behind? Here is the first premium ammo I looked up (Okay, not the first, but it helps my side of the argument :chuckle::
300 WIN MAG 180 GR Spire Point HEAVY MAG 8500
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3100/3840 2872/3296 2655/2817 2448/2396 2251/2025 2063/1701
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 1.40 0.00 -6.3 -18.4 -37.4
That being said, you are right in the fact that custom ammo can be faster than factory.....I have not chrono'ed every brand of factory ammo (or any factory ammo for that matter), so I can't argue with you. But, I will argue with the mentality of someone buying a .300 win mag and going with a 24" pipe and strictly shooting factory ammo? Like putting a governor on a sports car - you buy magnum rifles for maximum capability - high performance is what you want, if not, you'd shoot a naught 6. :chuckle: Too much golfing and drinking today, so if this doesn't make any sense - please disregard :chuckle:
How many did you find first that said less than 3000 be honest.
I agree with you on shooting strictly factory ammo. Its a waste of what the gun can truely do. 4 or 5 years ago I bought a .270wsm right before hunting season and couldn't find any dies for it. It was the first time I had ever shot factory ammo through one of my own guns. I tried a few different brands but never found anything that I really liked. I did kill a deer that year with it. Its the only deer or elk that I have ever killed with factory ammo.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:50:22 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
You know what would be great? a 264 WSM.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:51:09 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
Now i'm with you. You like a 7mag necked down to .264. Or do you tell everyone it's a 338 necked down to .264. :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 08:52:10 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
You know what would be great? a 264 WSM.
I've never thought about that but you're right.
Post by: Buckmark on July 25, 2009, 08:52:54 PM
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 08:53:25 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
Gotta agree Gut. The 6.5's are awesome. There is a Wildcat based off of the 264 win mag - I believe it is called the 24 incinerator? I just remember it would reportly spit out a 70 grain BT at around 4400. Can you say "bad 'yote medicine"?
BS - I got a Kimber Montana in 270 WSM for back pack hunts - sweet caliber!
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 08:54:35 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
You know what would be great? a 264 WSM.
I've never thought about that but you're right.
They have one. It's called a 6.5 Rem Mag but it's really pretty weak. A 6.5 swede or a 260 would do just about the same. I have one of each.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 08:55:36 PM
Do I really need to explain? You said the worst are the .264's. I love them.
You know what would be great? a 264 WSM.
I've never thought about that but you're right.
Yes but of course it wouldn't really be any different than the 7mm WSM that is already available. :)
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 08:55:55 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 09:05:55 PM
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 09:07:24 PM
Anyone notice that the 25-06 has no votes.
Yep, I noticed. I'd actually like one some day. I've heard nothing but good about them. They're still the ugly stepchild IMO.
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 09:08:38 PM
Anyone notice that the 25-06 has no votes.
'Cause then they'd have to argue with JoshT!
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 09:09:35 PM
Quote
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: on a side note, my son just looked at your avatar pic and said.."whoaaaaaa, what's wrong with her, Spokane Valley"? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Hey!! That's not cool. The avatar is a pic of my mistress.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 09:10:26 PM
Anyone notice that the 25-06 has no votes.
'Cause then they'd have to argue with JoshT!
This is a debate not an argument. :chuckle: Right?
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 09:11:00 PM
Anyone notice that the 25-06 has no votes.
'Cause then they'd have to argue with JoshT!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I remember that. That was an awesome thread. It's pretty much the only cartridge that'll kill a coyote outright. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Bigshooter on July 25, 2009, 09:11:42 PM
Anyone notice that the 25-06 has no votes.
'Cause then they'd have to argue with JoshT!
This is a debate not an argument. :chuckle: Right?
Wait aren't those the same thing. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 09:25:27 PM
Obviosly everyone respects it.
Boy, this is about the fastest 7 pages of threads I have seen on this forum in my short time here.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 09:27:09 PM
My uncle shoots a 264 mag....he has killed about a dozen bull elk with it.....truly an awesome gun but also tougher on barrels than the 7 mag.
That's the only rifle I had for about 15 years, from about the age of 15. Finally decided I didn't care for the recoil and sold it and bought a 270.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 09:28:27 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 25, 2009, 09:30:55 PM
Much as I hate to do it... the .25-06 is a little overrated. It's kind of a tweener... like that cute girl in school who's pretty sexy, but not really "hot"... and not quite nerdy enough to avoid... you know the type. I married one of those... and I'm pretty happy about it... same for the .25-06... there are better deer rounds (like the 7mm for you haters!)... and better varmint rounds like the .223 and .243 (that's just for you Gutpile) or my favorite the 6mm.
My vote for most overrated goes to the entire family of .22 Centerfires (and the .204 Ruger is in there too)... too much like ()_+()_((*)(*)* for me... lots of bang... but not much substance. I guess the .223 has it's place in the colony varmint world... but that's about all it's good for. The .22-250 and the Swift suck hind tit to the .243/6mm for coyote and large varmint hunting... and all the rest of them fall somewhere inbetween.
I guess at the end of the day ALL rifle cartridges are "overrated"... when it comes to killing furry critters... what "caliber" does the killing is far less critical than the "caliber" of the shooter...
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2009, 09:32:21 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 09:35:34 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 25, 2009, 09:37:14 PM
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 09:38:47 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 25, 2009, 09:46:42 PM
Josh - I liked you until you picked on the .204 :chuckle:
Only from experience brother... I drank the coolaid... and it was a pretty cool little cartridge... but that little *censored* is LOUD, and doesn't pack much clout. I shot a couple coyotes... both ran like the dickens... and it didn't dissassemble chucks anywhere near the way the 6mm does with a 55. A .223 can shoot a 40 grainer pert'near as fast... without all the noise about it... it gives up a little BC... but were not talking about .600's here... the difference between .250 and .200 don't mean much in the real world of 400 yard tiny critter busters
Post by: Gutpile on July 25, 2009, 09:50:57 PM
Josh - I liked you until you picked on the .204 :chuckle:
Never shot one, don't know any one who ownes one. I'm really glad that the honeymoon is over on the .204 so every time I read a gun rag or visit a predator website the only thing talked about is the .204. I was really getting sick and tired of that damn cartridge.
Post by: bearpaw on July 25, 2009, 10:12:45 PM
Post by: jjhunter on July 25, 2009, 10:23:43 PM
Josh - I liked you until you picked on the .204 :chuckle:
Only from experience brother... I drank the coolaid... and it was a pretty cool little cartridge... but that little *censored* is LOUD, and doesn't pack much clout. I shot a couple coyotes... both ran like the dickens... and it didn't dissassemble chucks anywhere near the way the 6mm does with a 55. A .223 can shoot a 40 grainer pert'near as fast... without all the noise about it... it gives up a little BC... but were not talking about .600's here... the difference between .250 and .200 don't mean much in the real world of 400 yard tiny critter busters
Shoot my Cooper .204 for a day with the 40's and then shoot any .223 in the world that you want.....I guarantee you will take the Cooper - Hands down!
That being said, I will definitely be packing my 243 spitting 55 grain streaks of lightening for 'yotes this year. The Cooper will be at home looking pretty - just like my wife :chuckle:
Post by: JoshT on July 25, 2009, 10:45:08 PM
You start shooting the 55s out of a .243 (which is almost as good as my 6mm Rem) at coyotes... and you'll never look back. That combo is the Ayatolah of Rock & Rollah... 1" high at 100 yards is about 3" low at 300... and about 10" at 400... wind doesn't bother them near as much as you think... and coyotes are mighty impressed when that little pill arrives. Rockchuck vs. 55 grainer at 4k = big wet puzzle...
Post by: Slider on July 26, 2009, 10:51:34 AM
Very interesting results so far. I'm surprised to see so many votes for the 7mm. when ballistically it is one of the best all around calibers out there.
(+1 ) I would have to say the 7mm RM is one of the top 10 cartriges in the world!!! The only people that ever knock it are the 300 mag shooters. I guess they always wonder if they purchased the right caliber!!!...................... :chuckle:
Post by: jdb on July 26, 2009, 11:10:52 AM
Post by: ivarhusa on July 26, 2009, 11:33:47 AM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.:yeah: My take exactly.
Post by: Slider on July 26, 2009, 12:13:56 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 26, 2009, 12:49:09 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 26, 2009, 01:12:22 PM
Yeah I don't think it's that people "don't like" the 7 Mag, or any of the others with high numbers of votes. The question being the "most overrated," I agree, a lot of people think the 7 Mag. is really something special, when in reality it really doesn't have much, if anything, over the 30-06.
It offers a tremendous amount over the '06 in versitility... 120's at 3500 are an absolute lazer beam, and hit mighty hard for deer and pronghorn. High BC bullets like the 160 Accubond or the 162 AMax can be slung well in excess of 3000 and are stallions at long range. It can match the .257 Roy in "flat shooting" trajectory... match the big .30's in long range capability... and does so in a package that most folks can tollerate in the recoil department. It has lost a little luster lately... mostly due to downloaded factory fodder to make room for Remingtons release of the 7STW and later the 7RUM. I've worked with a bunch of 7mags over the years... I just bought one from Jud, an old Ruger tang safety gun that shot 140 Sierras at 3300+... that's faster than I've ever seen an '06 shoot a 125... and that bullet has a BC that's close to .500. It has become popular to bash on the 7mag... but it's probably the best lower 48 cartridge in existence today... even though it's haut couture to turn your nose up at it these days.
Truth be told... I think the .30-06 is one of the most overrated rounds out there... it does almost nothing that can't be done with a .308... lacks the horsepower of the .300 winny for launching high BC bullets... and kicks far more than neccessary for what it delivers downrange. It's the jack of all trades... but master of none.
Post by: ICEMAN on July 26, 2009, 01:16:24 PM
If I shot game regularly at 500 yards I would have a 300 Ultra Mag, not a lowly 7mm Rem. Mag. ;)
Thank you very much. You just settled an arguement with my buddy and I....
Post by: bearpaw on July 26, 2009, 01:19:18 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 26, 2009, 01:20:42 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 26, 2009, 02:39:07 PM
josht....I totally agree and would add that the 06 actually perfoms much better when necked down to other popular calibers. Notice the lack of votes on the 25:06.
The more I play with it... the more I've decided the '06 case sucks... with any bullet in it. Lowly 17* shoulder... too much taper... and not enough capacity to drive heavy for caliber bullets fast enough to justify using them.
Drop down to a .308 case and a short action... or move up to a 7mag case and keep the same lenght action with the additional performance, seems like a pretty good trade to me. I'm not a fan of the .270, the .280, the '06, the .338/06, or the Whelen... the .25-06 tickles my fancy... but that's only because there's not a .25 cal on the .308 case... and the Roberts is a little long for a short action.
Post by: ivarhusa on July 26, 2009, 04:08:24 PM
Post by: Dakota Dogman on July 26, 2009, 06:45:24 PM
But anyway..., I ask myself in my hunting range (I don't shoot game animals after about 350 yards unless everything is absolutely stinking perfect)... what would I do with a .30 anything, that I wouldn't do with my 7 Rem? Answer for me is nothing. That's why I don't own a .3
If the 7x57 / 7 Rem. can't handle it I want not just a touch more, but quite a bit more... .35x
At 300 yards on 90% of game animals the difference between 7x57 and .300 Rem Super Ultra maga killer with perfect everything is pretty much academic to me.
So the big 3 whitetails I've killed, on the wide open wind swept Dakota praire were
#3) 85 yards, 4x4 - 7x57 - 1 shot;
#2) 35 yards, 4x4 - .257 Roberts, 30 yards 1 shot;
#1) 110 yards, 5x5 - 7x57, 1 shot; 84 lbs of finished meat that pig weighed over 200 lbs. (amazing how close the 2 & 3 are together...)
Short of bears, I'm not sure that I (just me) want anything more than the 7mm.
God Bless,
Post by: Bigshooter on July 26, 2009, 07:06:20 PM
josht....I totally agree and would add that the 06 actually perfoms much better when necked down to other popular calibers. Notice the lack of votes on the 25:06.
The more I play with it... the more I've decided the '06 case sucks... with any bullet in it. Lowly 17* shoulder... too much taper... and not enough capacity to drive heavy for caliber bullets fast enough to justify using them.
Drop down to a .308 case and a short action... or move up to a 7mag case and keep the same lenght action with the additional performance, seems like a pretty good trade to me. I'm not a fan of the .270, the .280, the '06, the .338/06, or the Whelen... the .25-06 tickles my fancy... but that's only because there's not a .25 cal on the .308 case... and the Roberts is a little long for a short action.
I'm a big fan of the 338-06 and the whelen. Both will shoot 200's and 210's right at 2800fps and both will shoot 250's and about 2600fps. I seen data where you could add 100fps to what I listed but I always run in to pressure problems past there. I would not be afraid to hunt anything in north america with a good 250gr bullet, under 300 yards. If you want speed there not your you.
Post by: JoshT on July 26, 2009, 07:42:25 PM
And, for what it's worth... the only .338/06 I've seen break 2750 with a 200 was an AI version. Most book loads are around 2650-2700.
Post by: bobcat on July 26, 2009, 07:45:56 PM
Post by: bow-n-head on July 26, 2009, 08:15:57 PM
Post by: bow-n-head on July 26, 2009, 08:26:32 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on July 26, 2009, 08:31:11 PM
Understood... but if you're using a standard action... you could add another 150-200 fps to those numbers by stepping up to the 7mag case. Use of the 7mm case costs nothing, and the gains are significant.
And, for what it's worth... the only .338/06 I've seen break 2750 with a 200 was an AI version. Most book loads are around 2650-2700.
With my 338-06 I get just about 2800 with 210grain with a 25inch barrel. I have seen a lot of data where there getting almost 2900fps with a 24inch barrel. My 338-06 I had built on a M70 acation. If I would of used a 700 action I wouldn't be afraid to increase my pressures and see if I could get 2900fps.
Stepping up to the 7mm case is the 338 mag and i'm a puss when it comes to recoil.
Post by: Curly on July 26, 2009, 08:52:38 PM
Post by: BC CHASER on July 26, 2009, 09:04:02 PM
Post by: Rgrady35 on July 26, 2009, 09:20:48 PM
Post by: catwithboost on July 26, 2009, 09:27:54 PM
I like my 7mag.:yeah:
Post by: madmack76 on July 26, 2009, 10:14:18 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 26, 2009, 10:44:59 PM
very true your more than welcome to come over and test it out your self i supply the ammo my dughter will shoot my 300wsm but wont touch the 308 or 270 dont know what it is but it kicks way less
Not possible... unless it has a brake, or weighs about 15lbs.
Post by: superdown on July 27, 2009, 11:08:18 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 27, 2009, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 27, 2009, 11:01:36 PM
Quote
The Short Mags are undoubtedly the most overrated cartridges of all.bobcat, nice observation....I used a loaner 300 short mag on an overseas hunt one year so I wouldn't have to take guns with me. That particular gun was a sweet shooting Model 70 Win. and did a great job. But, actually the ballistics are close to identical with a .300 WinMag and for that reason I never figured out what the big deal was. The 300 winMag is inherently accurate anyway and catridges are much cheaper and easier to find in strange places.
Of all the short mags, the 270 WSM made some advancement over existing .270 rounds. It beat Jack O'Connors 270 by about 150 fps but only beats the 270 WBY by 25 to 50 fps.
More than anything, they overhyped the use of a short action and it was a good sales manuver by the rifle company's that really helped their sales! :twocents:
In the last 5 years there have been several rifles jam on quick reloads that were badly needed. In every instance I can think of, it involved WSM calibers. Some brands of guns are worse than others. But those short fat cartidges can cause problems. They shoot well, but they can be a problem at times. :twocents:
Many of the calibers we already have are equal to, or outperform them anyway. :twocents:
Post by: actionshooter on July 27, 2009, 11:37:45 PM
The Short Mags are undoubtedly the most overrated cartridges of all.
I have to defend my beloved 7WSM. The idea behind the short mags is magnum performance in a short action rifle. A lot of people don't care about a short action rifle, but I wouldn't have a sub 6# in a long action magnum caliber.
I think they are great if you have them for the intended purpose.
Post by: bearpaw on July 28, 2009, 12:06:06 AM
The WSSM calibers are even more over rated, they were in my opinion a dissapointment. I think it was earlier in this thread a couple of us mentioned that the 25 WSSM should have been a WSM. That might have been a screamer, but there must be a valid reason they opted for the WSSM case for the .25. :twocents:
Post by: andrew_12gauge on July 28, 2009, 12:12:27 AM
Post by: actionshooter on July 28, 2009, 09:13:36 AM
You are right the WSM guns can be built a little lighter and they do shoot well....but no one can argue, the manufactures really sensationalized them in their very successful effort to increase rifle sales. You made a great choice in that caliber, but I think people are saying it's not as big of improvement in their eyes as what the manufacturers made the WSM's out to be.
The WSSM calibers are even more over rated, they were in my opinion a dissapointment. I think it was earlier in this thread a couple of us mentioned that the 25 WSSM should have been a WSM. That might have been a screamer, but there must be a valid reason they opted for the WSSM case for the .25. :twocents:
yep I agree
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 12:44:25 PM
i think a lot of us own certain calibers more for the cool factor than for the capability factor. the 30-06 will kill a deer or elk just as dead as a 300RUM will with a well placed shot.
granted if you're a long range shooter, you probably don't want to be shooting an aught 6, but you could...
just sayin.......
Post by: MountainWalk on July 28, 2009, 12:49:31 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 01:53:28 PM
i don't get how someone could say the 30-06 is over-rated. that round has killed more game in this country than any other.
i think a lot of us own certain calibers more for the cool factor than for the capability factor. the 30-06 will kill a deer or elk just as dead as a 300RUM will with a well placed shot.
granted if you're a long range shooter, you probably don't want to be shooting an aught 6, but you could...
just sayin.......
Doesn't matter how much stuff it has killed... it matters what level of performance it's able to produce. The .308 can nearly match it... on a short action, with 20% less powder... and the .300 Winny whoops its a$$ on the same length action... same goes for the .280 (7/08 and 7mm Rem). The naught'6 was a great round back in the day... but it got superceeded on both ends... like I said earlier... jack of all trades... master of none.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 02:21:50 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 28, 2009, 02:32:59 PM
Quote
i don't get how someone could say the 30-06 is over-rated. that round has killed more game in this country than any other.
I would be willing to bet that the .22 actually has ;)
Post by: Ray on July 28, 2009, 02:34:48 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 03:18:54 PM
so the 300wm is better because it makes stuff more dead...ok i get it
It's not about that either... the .223 will make stuff just as dead too. So why does the .30-06 get a pass just because you should load it with Geritol?
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 03:28:00 PM
in what way is it over-rated?
i would hardly call it a jack of all trades and a master of none.
what does your RUM have over the aught-6 at ranges that most people shoot/hunt? like say 300 yards max?...i totally completely understand your love for your RUM...believe me, i do...and to add to the discussion, as i think you know, i just dumped a 30-06 in favor of moving up in the world to the 300wm...i personally think all the different calibers for hunting ammo are kinda pointless for use as most hunters would use them. i think a lot of guys get sucked into the cool factor with a lot of stuff.
i don't think the 30-06/270/7mag/300mag/etc will kill a big game critter any better than the next as long as the shooter does his part. who needs ultra mags, short mags, super short mags, etc...whats the point?
just like weatherby's...ballistics are awesome, but you can get the same with a lot of other cannons too...without paying for the name...got one of them too...$70 a box...ouch.
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 03:40:53 PM
.243 = Varmints/Deer/Pronghorn
.260 = Deer/Pronghorn/Elk?/Bear?
7mm/08 = Deer/Pronghorn/Elk/Bear/ most non-dangerous African Game
.308 = Deer/Pronghorn/Elk/Bear/all non-dangerous African Game
.358 = Deer/Bear (even Griz)/Elk/all non-dangerous African Game
If you're limiting my hunting to <300 yards... I'll take a .308 all day long... or maybe a 7mm/08. The old rot'6 don't kill any better than any of those cartridges... a critter would never know the difference... all it does is make more fuss about it. If you're stepping up to a rig for hunting 300-800 yards... then you leap past the .30-06 and go to one of the big .30s or big 7s... at least that's my experience on the matter.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 03:42:30 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 28, 2009, 03:47:47 PM
I only give the .308 200 yards on bear whereas 30:06 probably 250-300 max on bear.
.30 mags are good for 400 if you are a shooter, some guys really have no business shooting much past 200-300 cause they haven't done it before. :twocents:
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 03:49:17 PM
I long for the day that my boys are old enough to start hunting... I'll get the old Win. 88 out (.308 for now... but a .358 barrel may be on the horizon... or maybe a 7mm/08), mount up a 4x Weaver... and proceed with slaying all manner of critters... all while injoying the simple life. No more 11 pound Sendero... no more turrets... no more rangefinders... just huntin'. One of these days I'll get there... untill then, I'll pay my dues to stuff junkies annonymous.
By the way bearpaw... the difference in .308 vs. 30-06 is about 150ft/lbs at all ranges... not really enough to make any difference at all on a bear.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2009, 03:50:46 PM
Reckon that's the point of this game...
I long for the day that my boys are old enough to start hunting... I'll get the old Win. 88 out (.308 for now... but a .358 barrel may be on the horizon... or maybe a 7mm/08), mount up a 4x Weaver... and proceed with slaying all manner of critters... all while injoying the simple life. No more 11 pound Sendero... no more turrets... no more rangefinders... just huntin'. One of these days I'll get there... untill then, I'll pay my dues to stuff junkies annonymous.
By the way bearpaw... the difference in .308 vs. 30-06 is about 150ft/lbs at all ranges... not really enough to make any difference at all on a bear.
when you get there, i'll be shooting my muzzleloader.
:chuckle:
Post by: Curly on July 28, 2009, 03:58:56 PM
I think it was earlier in this thread a couple of us mentioned that the 25 WSSM should have been a WSM. That might have been a screamer, but there must be a valid reason they opted for the WSSM case for the .25. :twocents:
I sure can't think of a good reason............... :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on July 28, 2009, 04:06:47 PM
.308 - 180 grain top load - 2600 fps muzzle - 2283 fps 200yds
30/06 - 180 grain top load - 2800 fps muzzle - 2312 fps 300yds
300 WM- 180 grain top load - 3000 fps muzzle - 2333 fps 400yds
You gain 100 yards with each step up from 308 to 30/06 to 300 win mag.
Post by: bearpaw on July 28, 2009, 04:17:43 PM
.308 - 180 grain top load - 2600 fps muzzle - 2283 fps 200yds
30/06 - 180 grain top load - 2800 fps muzzle - 2312 fps 300yds
300 WM- 180 grain top load - 3000 fps muzzle - 2333 fps 400yds
300 UM- 180 grain top load - 3150 fps muzzle - 2308 fps 500yds
(had to calculate, may be 10-20 fps off)
30/378 - 180 grain top load - 3248 fps muzzle - 2272 fps 600yds
(had to calculate, may be 10-20 fps off)
You gain about 100 yards with each step up from 308 to 30/06 to 300 win mag. to 300 UM to 30/378.
Check it out 30/378 does at 600 yards what 308 does at 200 yards.
Post by: bearpaw on July 28, 2009, 04:20:36 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 04:23:08 PM
That's pretty aneamic for a .300 win load... and pretty light for a .308...
Personally I've seen about 2700, 2850, and 3100 out of the combo for 180s... though I think the best bullet weights are 165s in the .308 & '06... and 180s in the .300.
I can shoot a 208 that fast (3150) out of my Sendero... it'll do at half a mile what a .308 with a 180 will do at 200 yards. And, I've yet to see a 30/378 that will out run a .300RUM when the chrony comes out...
Post by: tlbradford on July 28, 2009, 04:42:23 PM
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 04:46:39 PM
Post by: BC CHASER on July 28, 2009, 04:50:33 PM
Watch this.
Post by: tlbradford on July 28, 2009, 04:54:58 PM
I carry a 9mm... so some would argue that I'm undergunned for a carry pistol...
:chuckle: I just lost all repect for your point of view now. :chuckle: C'mon you know you want a .45. :P
Post by: JoshT on July 28, 2009, 04:57:01 PM
We all know it's about shot placement anyway... isn't it?
Post by: tlbradford on July 28, 2009, 07:32:56 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 29, 2009, 12:35:54 AM
I'll take my 18+1 of 9mm in a pistol that has never had a hick-up
:yeah: 92F for everyday here.
Post by: Bofire on July 29, 2009, 01:57:41 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 29, 2009, 02:27:05 PM
So far Retumbo is the best powder we can find for the 30/378. Does anyone know anything better, I haven't researched new powders lately. Manufacturers are keeping quiet what powder they use to get the higher velocities.
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: JoshT on July 29, 2009, 06:40:57 PM
I dont like double stacks, I'll take my unfinicky shoot every thing all day long 1911 45.
I think the .45 is a little 'overrated' too... So, that makes me a total heretic... calling the .30-06 and .45ACP overrated... I expect someone to pull my citizenship anytime now.
Post by: Intruder on July 30, 2009, 02:21:41 PM