Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 08:30:09 PM
Please post your pictures of wolf kills and where kill was found: Carcass, Tracks, Pictures, TrailCamera, Anything to share with WDFW as proof there are more wolves in Wa, than they are claiming.
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 08:56:50 PM
Could be your Nice trophy Deer but he didnt make it.
Wa Wolves did it.
Mulehunter
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 09:00:07 PM
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 09:03:47 PM
Mulehunter
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 09:09:35 PM
Twisp?
Blackpine lake
Mulehunter :)
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 09:23:59 PM
Mulehunter :o
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 10:00:11 PM
WAKE UP PEOPLE! Soon u wont be able to see many Deer like before!
Mulehunter :'(
Post by: bearpaw on July 29, 2009, 10:26:00 PM
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 10:32:06 PM
mulehunter those are some really interesting photos of kills, do you have any more?
Yes I found a Dead Cattle other day. How Sad
Mulehunter :'(
Post by: runniNgunnin on July 29, 2009, 10:32:35 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: wolfbait on July 29, 2009, 11:23:19 PM
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 11:24:50 PM
mulehunters on it! where is the rest of your guy's pictures come on slack dogs!!!
:chuckle:
RunniNgunnin, I am not joking around. I am just trying to help and Education people what s going on in some area and to show people what I found. Its really EASY when u cut a wolves Track on Road and u could just park and step out and Hike up for miles. Great experience. I personal NEVER see one myself. Only what I found is what left in wood were only pictures I would take picture of.
U could Easily find any Tracks if you have snowmobile and u will find Many Carcass per week in Winter.
I believe they are moving back north nearby Wintrop. Because Deer wouldnt want to live near them. What I heard goosip people in Wintrop said those 12 Men with the Gamefish been hanging out Nearly Lake Patterson. Look like they are hanging out little West of it. I may be wrong. :chuckle:
Mulehunter
Post by: mulehunter on July 29, 2009, 11:26:55 PM
South of Twisp bout 4 miles
South ??? Must be two pack? Oh no...
Mulehunter
Post by: runniNgunnin on July 29, 2009, 11:38:21 PM
Post by: mulehunter on July 30, 2009, 12:23:18 AM
im not pokin fun, im serious about you being on top of the wolf kill/slotter pics! but i was jokin about everyone else bein slack dogs, they ALL have better pics then i do... :bash:
RunniNgunnin, No worry!
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: mulehunter on July 30, 2009, 12:38:55 AM
South of Twisp bout 4 miles
He thought he post his picture but didnt work so He sent me pm, Asked me to post his picture for him. So here his two pictures.
Mulehunter
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 08:04:05 AM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/contacts.htm
Post by: jackelope on July 30, 2009, 08:09:52 AM
too bad, because that is the only way we will get anywhere closer to delisting. we can post pictures on here all day long, and as interesting as it is for us to see, it means nothing towards progressing to delisting. as much as some think they will never get delisted here in WA...it's real safe to say that if nobody reports this stuff, we will absolutely NEVER get delisted.
those pics have pretty much all been posted on here before..does anyone have any new ones?
Post by: wolfbait on July 30, 2009, 08:40:54 AM
Kain...pretty safe to assume none of those pics were reported, nor was the dead cattle that he found.
too bad, because that is the only way we will get anywhere closer to delisting. we can post pictures on here all day long, and as interesting as it is for us to see, it means nothing towards progressing to delisting. as much as some think they will never get delisted here in WA...it's real safe to say that if nobody reports this stuff, we will absolutely NEVER get delisted.
those pics have pretty much all been posted on here before..does anyone have any new ones?
What are you trying to say jackelope? We will never be delisted in Wa.? Are you saying that no matter how many wolves there are delisting won't happen in Wa.? People that live where these wolves are know that there are more wolves than wdwl are claiming. So you want everyone to tell them what they already know. Good Idea, but tell us also, so there are two records of it. That way we can take our info. to them, and see what they have to say :o
As far as the cow he found, you know as well as I do, unless you find the wolves killing the cow, or within a day, wdwl are not even going to set their coffee cup down and leave the shade. How much room do we have on here for pics. before we spring a leak. ;)
Post by: jackelope on July 30, 2009, 08:52:08 AM
Quote
pretty safe to assume none of those pics were reported, nor was the dead cattle that he found.
too bad, because that is the only way we will get anywhere closer to delisting.
people have to report. don't put words in my mouth.
you have to quit worrying about what they say in response to the reports and JUST DO IT. as far as the cow kill...it does no friggin good to not report it. if you report it, there is at least some chance in hell it will have an effect, even if it is slight. i can't believe i have made this statement umpteen times and here i am saying it again. it's a really simple concept.
WE CAN POST PICTURES ON THE INTERNET OF OLD "WOLF" TRACKS IN THE SNOW TILL THE SKY TURNS GREEN...IT DOES NO GOOD FOR OUR CAUSE. who's to say that those wolf tracks aren't labrador retriever tracks? there's much better odds of getting a reaction by telling the people who control the delisting process about the tracks and the kills than there is by posting pics on the internet for us to look at.
Post by: boneaddict on July 30, 2009, 09:09:14 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 30, 2009, 09:19:14 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 30, 2009, 09:37:37 AM
wolfbait...read what i typed.Quotepretty safe to assume none of those pics were reported, nor was the dead cattle that he found.
too bad, because that is the only way we will get anywhere closer to delisting.
people have to report. don't put words in my mouth.
you have to quit worrying about what they say in response to the reports and JUST DO IT. as far as the cow kill...it does no friggin good to not report it. if you report it, there is at least some chance in hell it will have an effect, even if it is slight. i can't believe i have made this statement umpteen times and here i am saying it again. it's a really simple concept.
WE CAN POST PICTURES ON THE INTERNET OF OLD "WOLF" TRACKS IN THE SNOW TILL THE SKY TURNS GREEN...IT DOES NO GOOD FOR OUR CAUSE. who's to say that those wolf tracks aren't labrador retriever tracks? there's much better odds of getting a reaction by telling the people who control the delisting process about the tracks and the kills than there is by posting pics on the internet for us to look at.
Well, I tell ya, I would never try to put words in your mouth, I need my fingers. :chuckle: I wish they would just be honest with the public, that would sure bode well with the people. With an issue such as the wolves, honesty would have gone along ways. I don't know how many times I have said that! Say I went to the doc. about my badly chewed up fingers, and he said, Oh they are fine, I just need to put you under while I clean all the tooth chips out of them, and then when I wake up I am fingerless. And very dam mad. same thing) In Mantana there were two differant wolf kill charts, one that the cattlemens assn. did and one the feds did, these chart were livestock kills, Guess which one was way short on livestock kills. Same kills investigated by both parties. They were asked about the differance also, wasn't a whole lot they could say cept him n haw. Was quite embearassing for the fed side. Well, I thought that was the whole idea, to have proof, pics is great proof. I am quite sure that the wdwl will get to see all these pics. personally at some point and time. We would like to get more from other people around Wa. that have pictures and info.of their wolves. Our goal is to help wdwl as much as we can. We are saving them all this reseach. I would think they would be very happy. :)
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 09:52:52 AM
Quote
2. To report possible wolf-caused livestock depredation:
Call USDA Wildlife Services or the appropriate USFWS or WDFW office (phone numbers listed below). While waiting for the agencies to respond, the caller should follow these instructions to protect the scene:
Avoid walking in and around the area.
Do not touch anything and keep all people and animals from the area to protect evidence.
Place a tarp over the carcass.
If possible, use cans or other objects to cover tracks and scats that can confirm the depredating species.
Post by: jackelope on July 30, 2009, 09:58:10 AM
wolfbait:
Quote
Our goal is to help wdwl as much as we can. We are saving them all this reseach. I would think they would be very happy.
like Kain said, the unfortunate part of this is that there is no way to prove the pictures you aquire are even from Washington...
i'm gonna assume the difference in the # of kills between the cattlemen and the feds was that the cattlemen decided that they were wolf kills and the feds could not confirm nor deny they were wolf kills.
unfortunately thats the way it is...further reason to report as many incidents as possible. the more there are, the more potential confirmations.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on July 30, 2009, 10:18:48 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 02:33:43 PM
There is a process for this. I am pretty sure part of the process has already occured in the eastern part (roughly region 1) of washington. This part of Washington was included with ID/MT delisting by the feds.
When we get more wolves I do think the feds will delist other areas. Then the state has to delist. Then unless I am mistaken, the wildlife commission will decide and authorize any seasons. So it is possible that management may occur someday.
No matter what has been said, I can't see how it will hurt to post photos in a thread. If I get some photos, I would like to post them, and to be honest I would like to see all the photos everyone else has to offer. I think it's all interesting.
Now that I said that, I also agree, it is very important for everyone to report, even if the WDFW doesn't keep track of all reports, and if that happens someday we can argue to the commission that WDFW has been not included all reports.
But to be honest, by talking about this and showing photos we raise awareness in our own ranks and that will lead to more reports getting filed. If we can all agree to set aside our small differences, and agree that we all want wolves managed, I think we can work together toward that goal.
You guys are a great bunch of guys, lets laugh this off and try to work together for the commom good. :twocents:
:hello:
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 02:49:34 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 30, 2009, 02:55:15 PM
:tup:
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 06:04:54 PM
I also posted these on Kains thread about cougar sounds.....but thought they should be on a wold thread too.
FWS - Wolves
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/11wolfhowls.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/12wolveshowlfar.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/10wolfplay.mp3
FWS - All Sounds
http://www.fws.gov/video/sound.htm
Some Other Wolf Sounds
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howl.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2001.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2002.wav
http://amazingsounds.iespana.es/aseanimal.htm
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Animals.htm
Post by: mulehunter on July 30, 2009, 06:07:41 PM
Like I said. people need to learn something sometime :rolleyes:.
Lets see for Example....
Should we all manage it with Gamedept Or report to WDFW? Yes We CAN do that with WDFW No problem... U think u are being smarter than me and think u are right about all this. Wait min... think harder before u say. Look after your frineds who Loves to hunt at their Honey HOLE and your future children hunting. I care about all people who loving hunt where they grow up. I am very sorry about Okangon County and Covillee area. Its VERY SAD but Deer, Moose, and Elk population will change big time in few years Just like Idaho only have 13 percent Elk left. BUT..... IDAHO Never make anything Better. I promise it will happen to Our state of WA!
How they manage Cougar Everyday. For example.
How about Cougar? Complaint Calls and Gamedept went to Rancher Look over the kill of Sheep. He local houndmen to come and track and Treed. Dart Cougar and put Collared move to where? ANY idea where? They talk thur Dept find out where they suggest him to release, OH Yes :chuckle: at the MOST population Deer or ELK area. They released them. So they can MANAGE Elk or Deer Population.
Same with Bears They catch and threw them OUT in Mountain. They could do same thing to Wolves.
Okay Can u picture Wolves Released By GameDept Next future? :yike: I was wondering if they plann to release some wolves in to Snoq Hancock Forest above your home. :chuckle:
AGAIN,
If we ALL Complaint by many loss Livestocks. Do you think we want them capture and SENT IT BACK TO CANADIAN! :dunno: Anyway I aint think so.. SO If they Dart and Capture those pack and split up some wolves and MOVE to new place Let me think Blwette Pass? Or Wentachee National Forest? Tenannaway? Cocklum? Ellensburg? South Yakima? Corral pass? Any Idea? And RELEASED Pack of wolves in to your favorite Forest area. I dont believe FEDS will Kill Wolves unless the Population need to be OVER 500 or more also they can splilt some pack and move some other GMUS! Later in 10 years the Population will grow to 1,000 Equally to Cougar Population. I dont think they ever will public Harvest Quote hunting till they are balance same as Cougar population in Wa.
Cougar population might be 800 Or More in Wa alone. My guess..
SO PETA wolfer and ENVIRONEMTIST might JUMP In Olympia, Wa and fight agasint WDFW to balance it Was it u? :( Maybe u want it to be VERY PUBLIC thur WDFW Thats how PETA get stronger! GO figure!
its not Always MY CHOICE! Its YOUR people's CHOICE and ur Future hunting.
I am just here to post what I know and found and share with all of good people and need to see it everyday Instead reports getting lost in DEPT for not public good enough They might want to HIDE all Reports and getting big bonus out of your Tags money that u will not filled that wolves taken all.
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 06:26:11 PM
WOLF SOUNDS
I also posted these on Kains thread about cougar sounds.....but thought they should be on a wold thread too.
FWS - Wolves
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/11wolfhowls.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/12wolveshowlfar.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/10wolfplay.mp3
FWS - All Sounds
http://www.fws.gov/video/sound.htm
Some Other Wolf Sounds
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howl.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2001.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2002.wav
http://amazingsounds.iespana.es/aseanimal.htm
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Animals.htm
:chuckle: A little anxious to get started with wolf season? :chuckle: I think you might have to wait a while in this state. Besides I already called dibs on the first wolf tag. Gonna do a nice rug. Do you think they would get you for animal harassment if you used a caller to try and get pictures?
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 06:49:38 PM
I am sure many others thought the same. If you don't have a fancy caller use a Tape recorder or Ipod and a loud speaker.... ;)
Almost forgot to mention, I don't think it's illegal, but a phone call to Olympia by anyone would let us all know.
Post by: rasbo on July 30, 2009, 06:53:42 PM
no sir I was calling coyotes
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 06:56:47 PM
video would be even better..... ;)
PS - don't try to get around the law, just call and find out, then post here, everyone will want to know. ;)
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 07:02:18 PM
Post by: rasbo on July 30, 2009, 07:20:45 PM
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 07:22:24 PM
Also other sounds for calling other animals.
Now go get some wolf pictures and video. Who will be the first to post wolf pictures or video?
http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm (http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm)
PS - Send tips via paypal, no just kidding.... :chuckle:
Post by: Kain on July 30, 2009, 07:27:36 PM
Another place to find animal sounds
http://www.mscustomcalls.com/MP3.html
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi406.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp150%2FNaithankain%2FCoyote1-3-09.jpg&hash=83ab949cdcadcb4f06efce7dda77d783fc8b5b37)
Post by: mulehunter on July 30, 2009, 07:28:46 PM
mulehunter, I think jackelope wants to see wolves managed, he just wants everyone to report sightings so we can hopefully get management someday. We can all work together on this if we try.... :twocents:
Yes thats what whole the point I was trying to say. The point is how do Idaho get fill up full of wolves in ALMOST most of Units. I know for sure they report and report every week. What do they manage it any better after 1,800 wolves in Idaho. :dunno:
If we keep reported, Reported, Reported sightings Like he wanted way he think we should do and FISHGAME will start to CHUCKING Thanks for your Reports, We already know it. Have a good day, and he end up went to Starbuck pick up a Coffee and think those people a FREAK! :bash:
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 07:33:20 PM
Hey if MT season opens and I go, you better come with so you can take out frustrations on Mr. Teeth himself... :chuckle:
:mgun: :cue:
Post by: mulehunter on July 30, 2009, 07:53:19 PM
Mulehunter :)
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 07:57:19 PM
Post by: runniNgunnin on July 30, 2009, 08:04:34 PM
WOLF SOUNDS
I also posted these on Kains thread about cougar sounds.....but thought they should be on a wold thread too.
FWS - Wolves
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/11wolfhowls.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/12wolveshowlfar.mp3
http://www.fws.gov/video/sounds/10wolfplay.mp3
FWS - All Sounds
http://www.fws.gov/video/sound.htm
Some Other Wolf Sounds
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howl.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2001.wav
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Sound%20Effect%20-%20Wolf%20Howls%2002.wav
http://amazingsounds.iespana.es/aseanimal.htm
http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Animals/Animals.htm
:chuckle: A little anxious to get started with wolf season? :chuckle: I think you might have to wait a while in this state. Besides I already called dibs on the first wolf tag. Gonna do a nice rug. Do you think they would get you for animal harassment if you used a caller to try and get pictures?
i wonder if Randy Anderson, and Primos and already working on some wolf calls to be put out in the next few years, lol i think i might buy a few.... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
Post by: runniNgunnin on July 30, 2009, 08:26:35 PM
YOU GUYS CAN CATCH ME ON THE NEXT EPISODE ON THE OUTDOOR CHANNEL SITTING ON A PORCH WITH WILL PRIMOS.... PSHHHHH!
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 08:32:43 PM
Bait has been legal for cougar and works for them at times. I am pretty sure bait is legal for coyotes, but again check first.
If someone calls olympia and asks these questions, post the answer on here.....
Post by: runniNgunnin on July 30, 2009, 08:36:15 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 31, 2009, 11:38:05 AM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/meetings.htm (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/meetings.htm)
WDFW WA Wolf Plan Overview
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/wolfplan_overview.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/wolfplan_overview.pdf)
Next Meeting
Aug 6-8 In Colville
Contact me if you want to go and need a place to stay.
Hunters need to have input in this plan.......
Post by: bearpaw on July 31, 2009, 11:53:58 AM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/members.htm (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf/members.htm)
Hunters need to have input in this plan during the public input period.......
Final decisions do take into account public input.....
If no one speaks against wolves then everyone must want them.....
Go to the meeting and speak.....
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 06, 2009, 10:52:43 AM
I forgot to mention, this wolf working group has about 15 active members. I know one the members, I am told the group is stacked with pro-wolfers.
Not surprising there
Hunters need to have input in this plan during the public input period.......
Final decisions do take into account public input.....
If no one speaks against wolves then everyone must want them.....
Go to the meeting and speak.....
Definately right there!
Make it if you can. I'm on the left coast here and can't make it, although I wish I could
here's what Idaho director said recently of thier situation....
print version email
Wednesday, August 5, 2009
Fish & Game prepares for fall wolf hunt
Commissioner: Some Idaho hunters are ready, whether it’s legal or not
By JASON KAUFFMAN
Express Staff Writer
Idaho Fish and Game Commissioner Randy Budge speaks about the challenges of managing wolves in the state to a gathering of Western attorneys general in Sun Valley on Monday. Photo by Willy Cook
At least one high-ranking wildlife official in Idaho believes a wolf hunt will happen in the state later this fall regardless of whether the species remains under the state's control.
Speaking in Sun Valley on Monday, Idaho Fish and Game Commissioner Randy Budge said many of the state's hunters are so upset by Idaho's growing wolf population they might take matters into their own hands if conservationists successfully derail the federal government's latest delisting of wolves in the northern Rockies. Budge made his prediction while speaking about the challenges of managing natural resource issues at the annual Conference of Western Attorneys General, at Sun Valley Resort from Aug. 2-5.
Whatever happens, Budge predicted, a wolf hunt will take place in Idaho's backcountry this fall.
"It will either be a state-authorized one or it will be an illegal one," he said.
Whether strong remarks like that play into conservationists' hands remains to be seen. In early June, conservation groups filed suit against the federal government in an effort to reverse a decision that removed Endangered Species Act (ESA) protections for gray wolves in the northern Rocky Mountains.
According to the 13 groups that filed the lawsuit, U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar failed to fully consider both scientific and legal inadequacies underlying the delisting rule—released in the waning days of the Bush administration—before adopting it on April 2. The groups claim the rule will allow more than two-thirds of the region's wolves to be killed before the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service would even consider stepping back in and restoring protections.
The federal government's April delisting did not include the state of Wyoming, whose wolf management plan the Fish and Wildlife Service has deemed inadequate. Wyoming officials have also filed suit against the federal government challenging their absence from the delisting.
Both lawsuits are still pending.
Click here to come visit us
Budge's comments were prefaced by his discussion of the federal government's role in the ongoing wolf delisting drama. He said the time has long since passed when the delisting should have been completed.
He said the original point wolves were to be delisted from the ESA was when the northern Rockies population reached 30 breeding pairs and 300 wolves spread across the states of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Current estimates state that about 1,650 wolves are in the region, more than five times the delisting numbers Budge said the federal government originally agreed on.
But conservationists have consistently claimed those numbers were set too low and do not constitute a biologically viable population of wolves in the tri-state region.
Not following through on the wolf delisting would further erode an already shaky trust between the northern Rockies states and the federal government, Budge claimed.
"We have a saturation of wolves in these three states and yet we have no (state) management," he said.
Except for several spots in the state—including the Sawtooth Valley, where the hunt would run from September through March—Idaho's wolf hunt will generally run from October through December. In areas inside the Frank Church-River of No Return Wilderness and the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness, the wolf hunt is set to run from Sept. 15 through Dec. 31.
In Idaho Falls on Monday, Aug. 17, the Idaho Fish and Game Commission will set the quota for the wolf hunt state officials hope will occur this fall. Tags to hunt wolves would go on sale after the quotas are set, a news release from the Idaho Department of Fish and Game states. A resident wolf tag would cost $11.75, and a nonresident tag would be $186.
Jason Kauffman: jkauffman@mtexpress.com
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2009, 04:13:31 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 06, 2009, 04:25:54 PM
Quote
Whatever happens, Budge predicted, a wolf hunt will take place in Idaho's backcountry this fall.
I have a serious man crush on him. :bow:
Can you imagine if someone in the WDFW said that.. :chuckle:
I think Im going to change my name to I LUV IDFG
Post by: woodswalker on August 06, 2009, 04:54:45 PM
Oh yeah I love seeing the photos. I didnt mean you shouldnt post them or show all of us your hardwork. I just want them to be reported so that there is proof that has been verified or at least investigated. The first thing the pro-wolf people say is that there has only been one case of deprivation by wolves. We all know that is bull but if no one reported it...it didnt happen. Keep on posting the photos with the locations. I want to come up there one day and see if I can get some on film. That would be rad. We all want "proactive" management. The best way to get it is to have as much proof as possible.
photos with GPS coords would be good....and time/date stamping. (yeah i know it can be spoofed, bring the days front page of the paper...it cannot be BEFORE that...)
AND MAP them.
Post by: mulehunter on August 06, 2009, 06:38:34 PM
Mulehunter :dunno:
Post by: wolfbait on August 06, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 07, 2009, 12:05:17 AM
Post by: mulehunter on August 08, 2009, 10:12:43 AM
Mulehunter :)
Post by: mulehunter on August 08, 2009, 10:28:46 AM
Mulehunter :(
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 08, 2009, 10:18:32 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 09, 2009, 04:04:55 AM
Also all the wolf killed elk photos, a good percentage have the a$$ eaten out just like that cow.
As a hound hunter and cougar expert, I have studied dozens of cougar kills, I can take one look and tell you that probably was not a cougar kill. I can also tell you that i have never seen coyotes only eat on something in that manner.
Based on other photos of wolf kills, it appears to be a wolf kill. Were wolf tracks found around the carcass?
Post by: bearpaw on August 09, 2009, 04:07:18 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 09, 2009, 07:38:15 AM
That's really interesting that F&W Fitkins said this cow kill was not wolf caused. First thing I noticed is that the a$$ is eaten out. The horse that was recently killed in idaho when my neighbor was visiting her dad, same thing, they ate the a$$ out. Idaho F&G confirmed it as wolves first time they looked.
Also all the wolf killed elk photos, a good percentage have the a$$ eaten out just like that cow.
As a hound hunter and cougar expert, I have studied dozens of cougar kills, I can take one look and tell you that probably was not a cougar kill. I can also tell you that i have never seen coyotes only eat on something in that manner.
Based on other photos of wolf kills, it appears to be a wolf kill. Were wolf tracks found around the carcass?
Yep, there were a lot of wolf tracks around the cow and as you can see, the ground was all torn up for about 50 ft around the cow. As you know, cougars don't spend that much time killing game--it's a done deal for them in a short time. Coyotes would never be able to pull a full grown cow down and no bear tracks were found at the scene. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it was wolves. I believe that F&W Fitkin embraces the environmentalists and their agendas. So yes, we do need a biologist that is not biased.
Post by: mulehunter on August 09, 2009, 08:19:18 AM
I think a big problem in this state is that they do not have an experienced wolf biologist. This state needs a biologist that has on the ground experience in Idaho or Montana, so we can save making any mistakes that have already been made in other states.
:yeah: Wdfw need to FIRED Scott Fitkin, and someone can do it better than Him. :bash: I was thinking about asking WDFW if there is avaible job for me!
Mulehunter :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on August 11, 2009, 01:33:42 AM
I have real serious concerns that our wolf plan is going to be the product of people with no real-life wolf experience. This may be a point that we need to drive hom with legislators and county commissioners.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 11, 2009, 08:01:31 AM
How do we know the cow did not die calving? That could also explain the ass being eaten out...did she prolapse and become wolfbait on her own? I've killed lots of coyotes over dead cows and they always seem to eat the ass on eyes out first. Not sure why wolves would not do the same thing. :twocents:That's really interesting that F&W Fitkins said this cow kill was not wolf caused. First thing I noticed is that the a$$ is eaten out. The horse that was recently killed in idaho when my neighbor was visiting her dad, same thing, they ate the a$$ out. Idaho F&G confirmed it as wolves first time they looked.
Also all the wolf killed elk photos, a good percentage have the a$$ eaten out just like that cow.
As a hound hunter and cougar expert, I have studied dozens of cougar kills, I can take one look and tell you that probably was not a cougar kill. I can also tell you that i have never seen coyotes only eat on something in that manner.
Based on other photos of wolf kills, it appears to be a wolf kill. Were wolf tracks found around the carcass?
Yep, there were a lot of wolf tracks around the cow and as you can see, the ground was all torn up for about 50 ft around the cow. As you know, cougars don't spend that much time killing game--it's a done deal for them in a short time. Coyotes would never be able to pull a full grown cow down and no bear tracks were found at the scene. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it was wolves. I believe that F&W Fitkin embraces the environmentalists and their agendas. So yes, we do need a biologist that is not biased.
BTW- ass wounds are not generally fatal- what killed this cow? Was the throat or nose destroyed?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 11, 2009, 08:02:23 AM
The commission was also asking WDFW questions about the peer review of the wolf plan, seems they have some doubt that the peer review was done by qualified scietists, they requested a list of the supposed experts.i agree.
I have real serious concerns that our wolf plan is going to be the product of people with no real-life wolf experience. This may be a point that we need to drive hom with legislators and county commissioners.
Post by: boneaddict on August 11, 2009, 08:11:23 AM
Post by: runamuk on August 11, 2009, 08:18:24 AM
How do we know the cow did not die calving? That could also explain the ass being eaten out...did she prolapse and become wolfbait on her own? I've killed lots of coyotes over dead cows and they always seem to eat the ass on eyes out first. Not sure why wolves would not do the same thing. :twocents:That's really interesting that F&W Fitkins said this cow kill was not wolf caused. First thing I noticed is that the a$$ is eaten out. The horse that was recently killed in idaho when my neighbor was visiting her dad, same thing, they ate the a$$ out. Idaho F&G confirmed it as wolves first time they looked.
Also all the wolf killed elk photos, a good percentage have the a$$ eaten out just like that cow.
As a hound hunter and cougar expert, I have studied dozens of cougar kills, I can take one look and tell you that probably was not a cougar kill. I can also tell you that i have never seen coyotes only eat on something in that manner.
Based on other photos of wolf kills, it appears to be a wolf kill. Were wolf tracks found around the carcass?
Yep, there were a lot of wolf tracks around the cow and as you can see, the ground was all torn up for about 50 ft around the cow. As you know, cougars don't spend that much time killing game--it's a done deal for them in a short time. Coyotes would never be able to pull a full grown cow down and no bear tracks were found at the scene. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it was wolves. I believe that F&W Fitkin embraces the environmentalists and their agendas. So yes, we do need a biologist that is not biased.
BTW- ass wounds are not generally fatal- what killed this cow? Was the throat or nose destroyed?
This is also typical of marauding dogs......it is a canine behavior to grab from behind...I've seen many horses attacked by dogs having their anuses ripped out and tails ripped off. Anyone with basic canine knowledge would know this it isn't rocket science and if we have a biologist who doesn't know the difference between canine and feline kills then we have serious problems :bash: :bash:
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 11, 2009, 08:45:11 AM
Dogs could have killed this cow also, who knows? Wolves are just becoming a convienient scapegoat.
Tracks don't mean a thing....coyotes eat on carcasses all the time- that doesn't mean they killed it.
Post by: runamuk on August 11, 2009, 08:54:17 AM
I agree that a canine and cat kill should be somewhat different, but- what evidence is there that this was wolf kill? Tracks don't make necessarily indicate a wolf kill to me because they could have been scavenging a carcass. How do we know she didn't die calving?
Dogs could have killed this cow also, who knows? Wolves are just becoming a convienient scapegoat.
Tracks don't mean a thing....coyotes eat on carcasses all the time- that doesn't mean they killed it.
I actually agree with you ;)
I was pointing out that this style of kill is typical of canines....and we should have a biologist that knows this and even better would be a biologist that can identify the type of canines based on evidence at the scene.... I would guess it wasn't jackals seeing as we don't have many of those here ;)
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 11, 2009, 08:59:14 AM
Post by: tlbradford on August 11, 2009, 09:24:37 AM
Post by: tlbradford on August 11, 2009, 09:30:58 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 11, 2009, 09:39:38 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 11, 2009, 09:46:20 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 11, 2009, 09:56:17 AM
I agree that a canine and cat kill should be somewhat different, but- what evidence is there that this was wolf kill? Tracks don't make necessarily indicate a wolf kill to me because they could have been scavenging a carcass. How do we know she didn't die calving?
Dogs could have killed this cow also, who knows? Wolves are just becoming a convienient scapegoat.
Tracks don't mean a thing....coyotes eat on carcasses all the time- that doesn't mean they killed it.
The cow had already had the calf a few days before. The problem with not dealing with a few stock killing wolves when it happens is they will turn other wolves into stock killers. In Montana a pack of 23 wolves were shot for killing livestock. The scapegoat excuse will not fly here for very long, this wasn't the first cow that wolves in the Methow have killed and the one up Hornet draw won't be the last. SF may be able to bs the fan, but not the players. This is an exzample of why wolves are so hard on ranchers, the pro-wolf people will blame everything else before the truth that a wolf killed the ranchers stock. 90% of wolf killed stock are not compensated for, if the stock is not investigated very soon then it will more than likely not be confirmed, and from the looks of things in SF's case, will never be confirmed.
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 11, 2009, 10:01:02 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 11, 2009, 11:19:32 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 11, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
……conservation groups say that a coal - bed methane gas drilling plan in Campbell and Johnson counties “threatens to encroach upon the prized Fortification Creek elk herd.”
Their concern for the elk is touching. Where is that concern for the elk that inhabit the northwest parts of the state? Are they not prized? Why weren’t they raising alarms and saying that wolves “threaten to encroach” on the elk herds in and around Yellowstone National Park back when wolves were first brought here? Where is their concern now that those elk numbers are a fraction of what they used to be?
Tom Remington
Post by: bearpaw on August 11, 2009, 07:29:22 PM
Judging from other photos of wolf attacks, and the comments about the kill as it was originally found, there is high probabilty this was a wolf attack. Granted there is not 100% proof, but even 50% probability means 1 in 2, and I just talked to a rancher in the Okanogan the other night who told me there is another dead cow and the state is investigating trying to figure it out now....hhhhmmmmm
The attached photo is a confirmed wolf attack in MT, I see similarities..... ;)
Post by: mulehunter on August 11, 2009, 09:32:05 PM
Mulehunter >:(
Post by: wolfbait on August 12, 2009, 07:30:42 AM
Would appear the wolves are starting their valley floor raids. I wonder if the chicken ranchers will have to move their flock?
Post by: mulehunter on August 12, 2009, 07:51:41 AM
Now what? Are they gonna removel those pack? I aint think so. Judge just told wolves ur just got dropped charge on many murder cases. Here ur free to go and enjoy more kills. U have free jail tickets from Feds remember that.
No wonder why Feds give judge a bonus to wavied all cases on wolves by biologlist.
How long will this keep doing? 15 years later from TODAY
More and more packs are moving down to ur honeyhole. Because biologlist will never support all ranchers.
Mulehunter :yike:
Post by: boneaddict on August 12, 2009, 07:58:45 AM
Post by: mulehunter on August 12, 2009, 08:19:52 AM
I could always find tracks up there today
I know a guy from Police over there his wife went for walk with dogs on libby rd. She saw her with few pups 1 month ago. Maybe more than 4 over the hill.
No wonder pups start to learn how to kill livestock better than Deer.
Ranchers are gonna be angry soon.
Mulehunter :bash:
Post by: boneaddict on August 12, 2009, 08:29:57 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 12, 2009, 08:35:40 AM
Post by: Kain on August 12, 2009, 09:57:48 AM
call olympia and ask we all need to know :twocents:
video would be even better..... ;)
PS - don't try to get around the law, just call and find out, then post here, everyone will want to know. ;)
No go on calling wolves. It is weird because I normally get a response from an actual person not a generic email. I also asked them to point me to the law that prohibits calling but they didnt.
Quote
Dear Mr. Kain,
We will be happy to send you copies of photos of the wolves in Washington that were from remote cameras or from the brief capture and radio-collaring of the male wolf, but it would be illegal to call and locate them for purposes of photo opportunities. The wolf is an endangered species in Washington under both state and federal law. The federal listing includes the western 2/3 of Washington, and they are state listed throughout Washington. This activity (calling wolves in for purposes of photographing them) would be considered harassment and would not be conducive to protecting the wolves from disturbance; repeat calling can also push wolves out of their use areas. We appreciate your interest in this state endangered species, and request that you not attempt to call wolves for photo opportunities in Washington.
If you have any further questions, comments, or concerns please feel free to contact the Wildlife Program at (360) 902-2515.
Sincerely,
Wildlife Program Customer Service
(360) 902-2515
TTY: (800) 833-6388
Fax: (360) 902-2162
http://wdfw.wa.gov
Post by: boneaddict on August 12, 2009, 10:09:13 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 12, 2009, 10:54:02 AM
Maybe they should use repeated calling to push the wolves out of areas where they are killing livestock. Next thing, we will be limited on how we hunt coyotes or will we be hunting coyotes?
Post by: MtnMuley on August 12, 2009, 11:23:29 AM
Post by: wolfbait on August 12, 2009, 01:05:45 PM
By Joyce Campbell
“I saw it twice and I really think it’s a wolf,” said Michelle Mondot, who learned the hard way that protecting her chickens from predators starts with prevention, not with scaring them off.
She went out to do chicken chores on the morning of Sunday, Aug. 2, and found eight dead birds and six more missing. She saw the back half of a large dark grey canine with a fluffy tail disappearing into the brushy hillside behind her Libby Creek home.
“He or she left, and I saw it again Sunday night because I was keeping an eye on everything,” said Mondot. She went out in the dark with a flashlight and stick around 9:30 p.m. and yelled, screamed and beat the stick on the ground and the animal took off after about 10 seconds. So long, she said, that she realized the animal was not afraid.
She got a .30-30 rifle and shot into the hill past her house and has not seen the predator again. “I think I’ve scared it off, at least for now,” she said.
State wildlife biologist Scott Fitkin is skeptical that the predator was a wolf.
“The fact that the animal appeared unafraid, I’m more skeptical that it was a wolf,” said Fitkin. “The fact that she went out and yelled and banged things, it’s not characteristic of wolves, who seem skittish. We’ve not ruled out it being a wolf,” he said. “We have no evidence except her eyewitness, but we are looking for more information.”
He sent two wildlife field technicians to set up a remote sensor camera at the site, but no photos of a wolf or any other canid have been captured. Radio telemetry was used for several days and showed that the radio-collared adults in the Lookout Pack were not present. A compost pile at the site contained the remains of butchered chickens, an attractant for carnivores.
Fitkin said being surrounded by public land and wildlife is a little different than having a chicken coop in town. Chances are greater for attracting predators looking for a meal.
“We’ve got the top predator of the West here and we need to know how to secure our livestock,” said Mondot. She said she felt responsible that her setup was only minimally secure. She had become lax over the years, chasing off one golden eagle and a weasel or raccoon, but felt unprepared for wolves.
She was instructed by the wildlife field biologist to bury attractants – any meat and scraps that are not vegetation. She wants to make sure her chickens are wolf-secure, but doesn’t know exactly what that means. She has covered plastic netting with chicken wire on her portable coops.
Fitkin said that wolves and cougars are easier to keep out, but bear-proofing is the most difficult predator prevention, because of their agile, dexterous and extremely strong front paws.
“We can co-exist, but we need to modify our behavior,” said Mondot. She said people need to not be attracting, feeding or being nice to the wolves. “I want them to be afraid. This is not part of their hunting territory. They can have all the rest.”
For more information on preventing wildlife conflicts with livestock and pets, visit the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife website on living with wildlife at www.wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living. The state’s draft gray wolf conservation and management plan has a section on preventing conflicts and is available at www.wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/gray_wolf.
A film and panel discussion on predators will be presented Sept. 16 at the Twisp River Pub. The Lords of Nature: Life in a Land of Great Predators is a new film on wolves and other top predators and will be presented in the Methow Valley by Conservation Northwest.
Photo by Joyce Campbell
These chickens survived a nighttime raid by a large canid that Michelle Mondot thinks was a wolf. She feels responsible for making her poultry wolf-secure, but isn’t sure what that means.
Post by: mulehunter on August 12, 2009, 08:29:48 PM
Kain...pretty safe to assume none of those pics were reported, nor was the dead cattle that he found.
too bad, because that is the only way we will get anywhere closer to delisting. we can post pictures on here all day long, and as interesting as it is for us to see, it means nothing towards progressing to delisting. as much as some think they will never get delisted here in WA...it's real safe to say that if nobody reports this stuff, we will absolutely NEVER get delisted.
those pics have pretty much all been posted on here before..does anyone have any new ones?
Hey Can u explain to me why u all people suggest me to keep report WDFW and keep reporting or any Kill by Wolves. Any pictures, Anything I found will not do any BETTER, Even There is Cattle were killed also again recently Chicken got killed.
Read Two Local NEWS about it.
Go figure! We will NEVER GET DELISTED! NEVER will. Now you see why Biologlist were TRAINNED by FEDS to LIE to people and They wouldnt even TRY hire houndmen to on tracks see what ANIMALS has done to Chicken or Cattles? :P I found a POORLY JOB By WDFW! >:(
Thats why I already knew it three years ago before you all think it gonna work BUT NOT going any better!! Its going make EVERY RANCHER ANGRY. SO AM I!
I am RANCHER! I raise Sheep, Goats, Pigs, and Chicken. I feel so bad for Larry and Michelle loss livestock and there will be MORE coming this fall!
By the way If michelle mondot said she WITNESSED TWICE and Scott Fitkin said Not enough EVIDENCE! By the way Michelle should have shot them to protect their livestock and any Rancher SHOULD! I cant afford loose my livestocks.
Why not Scott Fitkin Contact houndman to bring dogs and Lets try turn loose with hounds with Gamedept see whats catch on hot tracks? Why not they do it? maybe it would be Cougar or Bears NEVER KNOW?? They arent trying HARDER enough! :bash: :bash: :bash:
WHOA... Wait min!!! Do they have Collar radio tracking on Wolves.. I see he said on news. It said
He sent two wildlife field technicians to set up a remote sensor camera at the site, but no photos of a wolf or any other canid have been captured. Radio telemetry was used for several days and showed that the radio-collared adults in the Lookout Pack were not present.
I see why those Two wildlife Field agent working for HIM on tracking those Collar wolf and try to push them away from livestock kill during investagtor week so thing make it look CLEAN on Scott Fitkin story. >:(
Let me CLEAR I remember few pups this spring and it would be large number of Wolves in Libby Creek, Plus 9 Wolves in Wintrop East of Lake Patterson with some new pups unknow number. Its going to be UGLY later.
Here picture for u! Caught on TrailCamera by Mulehunter family. Red Tag on Ear. Hanging out in Libby Creek around March 09 . Thats where She bring Pups down to Kill Chicken. I believe so.
If you anyone want to know where they hang out. I can tell u WHERE exactly with GoogleEARTH map and I can PIN so you can Enjoy your time scouting up there.
Mulehunter :(
Post by: mulehunter on August 12, 2009, 09:25:31 PM
Here this Picture I found up on hill in Libby Creek area.
Mulehunter :'(
Post by: mulehunter on August 12, 2009, 10:37:17 PM
After reading this it would appear that these wolves are not that skitish, also it is rather peculiar that some lady said she saw some puppies and they believed her, yet some other lady said she saw a wolf that had killed her chickens and they don't think its a wolf on her say so. Seems like Fitkin is underestimating the number of wolves in the Methow once again.
GO FIGURE!
Mulehunter :bash: :bash:
Sighting confirms trio of wolf cubs
By Joyce Campbell
A visitor to the valley was the first to sight three gray wolf pups and wildlife biologists have confirmed that the Lookout Pack is raising at least a trio with the help of a “babysitter.”
“There’s one,” said Barbara Mattingly, an earth science teacher from Indiana who was visiting family members in the area. She saw some motion out of the corner of her eye and came eye-to-eye with a half-grown wolf pup about 50 feet away.
Mattingly was gazing into the eyes of the offspring of Washington’s first confirmed wolf pack in more than 70 years. The wolf pup was calmly looking back.
“They were very calm and we were very calm, and they were very well camouflaged,” said Mattingly. The pups moved from left to right within 30 seconds and quickly disappeared into the camouflage of the forest before either of the pair of humans could get any good photos. “It looked at me, stared at me right in the eye. Each one stopped and stared at us and walked away into the woods. It was the coolest thing ever.”
Mattingly had hoped to see the print of a wolf track when she and a Forest Service wildlife field biologist went out on July 30 to set up a remote sensor camera to try and capture images of the pups. A howling survey a day earlier confirmed the presence of an undetermined number of pups, and cameras have only picked up photos of single pups.
“We had guessed there were three from the howling response,” said state wildlife biologist Scott Fitkin. The Department of Fish and Wildlife, the Forest Service and the citizens’ organization Conservation Northwest have been collaboratively monitoring the Lookout Pack since spring of 2008.
A third adult wolf is confirmed to be traveling with the pack. A wolf howl was heard with the higher pitched howls of pups during a time when the radio-collared adults were out of the rendezvous area, presumably hunting, according to Fitkin. Pups are typically left at a rendezvous site with a babysitter, which could be a wolf from a previous year’s litter of pups or any other member of the pack.
The alpha male and female were trapped and radio-collared with the help of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in July 2008. Radio-telemetry from ground and air, remote sensor cameras, ground tracking and scat analysis have been used to follow and collect information about the wolf pack, including their six pups from last year.
By winter’s end, only three wolves remained in the pack, confirmed by visual sightings, radio surveys, photos and ground tracking. Wolf pups typically suffer 40 to 50 percent mortality from natural causes, according to wolf specialist Bill Gaines with the Forest Service. He said he was disappointed by the apparent survival of only one of the pack’s six pups.
This year, Gaines led a team of researchers collecting data from the denning site after the wolves moved on to a nearby rendezvous site in the Lookout Mountain area southwest of Twisp.
“It was like looking for a needle in a haystack, but we got lucky and walked right into it,” said Gaines. He said the well-concealed den had three different ways in and out of an underground chamber. The crew collected puppy scat for DNA analysis to determine a minimum number of pups and what they had been eating.
The year-round territory of the pack covers 350 square miles, said Gaines. It might be different this year due to the lack of snow in the Sawtooths.
“These wolves could easily travel 30 to 40 miles in a day,” said Gaines. He said as people get out and hike he expects to get more reports of hearing and seeing the pack.
“They are still around the low elevations of their range,” said Fitkin. He said there are indications that the pack is starting to move to the higher elevation of their summer range, following the migrating mule deer herds.
To report wolf sightings call the toll free Wolf Reporting Hotline for Washington (888) 584-9038.
Photo courtesy of WSDFW, USFS and Conservation Northwest
This wolf pup was photographed by a remote camera near the Lookout Pack’s rendezvous site southwest of Lookout Mountain on Aug. 9.
Date: 08-12-2009 | Volume: 107 | Issue: 13
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 13, 2009, 04:13:40 AM
View Post
Here is some more news on the Phantom Hill Pack - Sun Valley's poster pack. Apparently they have went on a killing spree and killed 12 sheep in one night, even with the hippies trailing the sheep around trying to keep them safe. Now it looks like they may be on the exterminiation list. That will be guarenteed to get the Suzanne Stones and the Rahph Maughans all riled up.
Off to see if Ralphie has a blog post about this. It will be fun to watch him whine.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005127344
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 05:44:02 AM
Alittle something from our neighbors to the east.......
View Post
Here is some more news on the Phantom Hill Pack - Sun Valley's poster pack. Apparently they have went on a killing spree and killed 12 sheep in one night, even with the hippies trailing the sheep around trying to keep them safe. Now it looks like they may be on the exterminiation list. That will be guarenteed to get the Suzanne Stones and the Rahph Maughans all riled up.
Off to see if Ralphie has a blog post about this. It will be fun to watch him whine.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005127344
I had a good laugh about that....I can see a buch of granola munchers following the sheep around thinking they are going to save that wolf pack. :chuckle:
Idaho will probably call in the guy that exterminated the Salmon wolf pack that was eating sheep. That guy gets about $1500 for each wolf, plus flight time. Uses a military style rifle and 12 gauge shotgun from a helicopter to dispatch wolves. ;)
I testified at the commission meeting about this guy and what he makes. I told the commission if they were going to use professional hunters for exterminating excess wolves instead of approving hunting in the future that I wanted to be on the list of professional hunters. I told them I would be more than happy to work professionally shooting wolves, or they could approve hunting and give me a tag and I would hunt wolves for free. :chuckle:
I also asked the commission who was going to pay for wolf management? How much is it going to cost taxpayers? (much of the meeting had been spent addressing the budget crisis in the WDFW) I also explained that hunting and tag sales could make the wolves less of a liabilty to the state. I asked the Commission if they were going to ask Senator Morton for money from the legislature to shoot wolves? :chuckle:
It was worth my time going to the Commission meeting just to ask these questions when testifying... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on August 13, 2009, 05:53:57 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 06:07:21 AM
Quote
By the way If michelle mondot said she WITNESSED TWICE and Scott Fitkin said Not enough EVIDENCE! By the way Michelle should have shot them to protect their livestock and any Rancher SHOULD! I cant afford loose my livestocks.
Enough of this happens and I think we can pressure County Commissioners and Legislators to request a replacement of a WDFW biologist.
Remember, the WDFW is going to have to get extra money from the legislature for the wolf program. Legislators can make effective requests that get results because they have to pass any legislation requesting WDFW funding. Many of the county commissioners are against these wolves right now. If we write to them and show them how this biologist Fitkins will always say and do things to protect wolves they might ask the legislators to get a biologist that is not biased, a biologist with actual wolf experience in Idaho or Montana and who is not opposed to hunting as a tool for managemement. (Hunting could eventually save this state hundreds of thousands of wolf management dollars when wolf numbers explode like we all know they will.)
This is why we all need to keep posting these stories on this public forum and we need to report every incident to the authorities. Then when the authorities keep dismissing evidence as not being wolves eventually someone will have to answer for this.
Write letters to the county commissioners and legislators complaining that the state is being inadequate in their wolf management. :bash: Eventually when DFW needs money they may have to answer to the legislature for this failure to cooperate to public damage complaints. ;)
It all boils down to "money" being the possible solution for getting wolf management to include hunting of wolves.... ;)
Right now it is important that we get the commission to include "hunting" in the wolf plan as the "eventual" management tool. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 06:19:11 AM
WRITE TO YOUR COUNTY COMMISSIONER AND LEGISLATORS
It don't have to be long, just send short notes explaining why you think the WDFW is not responding to livestock damage problems. :twocents:
Also send short notes explaining that you are concerned about sportsmen not coming to these counties to hunt anymore. Sportsmens dollars are important to county commissioners, county commissioners work closely with legislators and can request the legislators to do something about this situation....legislators can do something about this when the WDFW needs money..... ;)
The squeeky wheel always gets the grease. ;)
I will post commissioner and legislator contact info: USE IT ;)
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 13, 2009, 06:44:45 AM
I agree with much of what you're saying. The state needs dedicated wolf biologists- the state needs money for wolf surveys and tracking to gather evidence for delisting, the state could also use some help from people like us. Where are all of you when they need volunteers? That's not a challenge- i know lots of us are busy, but many of us could help out here and there. Give it a shot.QuoteBy the way If michelle mondot said she WITNESSED TWICE and Scott Fitkin said Not enough EVIDENCE! By the way Michelle should have shot them to protect their livestock and any Rancher SHOULD! I cant afford loose my livestocks.
Enough of this happens and I think we can pressure County Commissioners and Legislators to request a replacement of a WDFW biologist.
If we write to them and show them how this biologist Fitkins will always say and do things to protect wolves they might ask the legislators to get a biologist that is not biased, a biologist with actual wolf experience in Idaho or Montana and who is not opposed to hunting as a tool for managemement.
This is why we all need to keep posting these stories on this public forum and we need to report every incident to the authorities. Then when the authorities keep dismissing evidence as not being wolves eventually someone will have to answer for this.
Write letters to the county commissioners and legislators complaining that the state is being inadequate in their wolf management. :bash: Eventually when DFW needs money they may have to answer to the legislature for this failure to cooperate to public damage complaints. ;)
It all boils down to "money" being the possible solution for getting wolf management to include hunting of wolves.... ;)
Right now it is important that we get the commission to include "hunting" in the wolf plan as the "eventual" management tool. :twocents:
Have you ever met Scott Fitkin? I have- he's a reasonable person and a sharp biologist. Put yourself in his shoes and try to imagine the idiots he deals with every day because of this... I don't blame him for being skeptical on wolf reports and depredation. Just because an animal is dead in wolf country does not mean wolves killed it (though it's always a possibility) there has to be some evidence that can make it seem legit. It sounds like the chicken killing incident may or may not have been a wolf...who knows if it was a coyote, or a neighbors dog? I don't blame Scott Fitkin for asking the questions...that's his job.
Why don't some of you ask to volunteer for a day? I bet a day in the field with a bio would be helpful. Who knows- if nothing else you have an audience for your stance on wolves. Maybe there would be some useful dialogue. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 06:58:46 AM
"We are concerned about this incident and while we can not confirm wolves were responsible for killing the livestock, we will closely monitor the wolves in this area to try and prevent possible future predations."
I guess it is up to him to show people why we should employ him!
Right now everything I read indicates he is doing the community, the ranchers, and the wolf no favors by trying to cover their tracks. :twocents:
It certainly raises some questions...... :dunno:
Is Fitkins in favor of eventual wolf management by hunting?
Why does the wolf plan not include hunting as the eventual management tool?
Who makes recommendations for the plan, maybe the biologist?
Post by: mulehunter on August 13, 2009, 08:20:22 AM
ONCE wolve made a kill on next livestock will be SHOT so soon Scott Fitkin will better confirmed wolves did this.
I am postive those rancher won't get cited for shoot wolves right afte livestock are killed.
State law allowed us we must protect our animals and our children and our rancher. We pay tax on property. Don't even think u can control us and allow wolves eat some of ours.
I heard they all ranchers are totally angry today. Whoa..... And most rancher totally disagree with scott fitkin. So am I. After 3 newspapers
Game are ON.
Oh by the way how do we know it was coyote or dogs or anything. We will shoot right there and here ur evidence.
Good luck.
Mulehunter
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 13, 2009, 08:22:04 AM
:dunno: what I learn that I believe this what happen to michelle and larry, maybe Gary and few Rancehr will start to share a good chat in town.I agree that we should have the right to do that.
ONCE wolve made a kill on next livestock will be SHOT so soon Scott Fitkin will better confirmed wolves did this.
I am postive those rancher won't get cited for shoot wolves right afte livestock are killed.
State law allowed us we must protect our animals and our children and our rancher. We pay tax on property. Don't even think u can control us and allow wolves eat some of ours.
I heard they all ranchers are totally angry today. Whoa..... And most rancher totally disagree with scott fitkin. So am I. After 3 newspapers
Game are ON.
Oh by the way how do we know it was coyote or dogs or anything. We will shoot right there and here ur evidence.
Good luck.
Mulehunter
Post by: boneaddict on August 13, 2009, 08:27:00 AM
Quote
Put yourself in his shoes and try to imagine the idiots he deals with every day because of this... I don't blame him for being skeptical on wolf reports and depredation. Just because an animal is dead in wolf country does not mean wolves killed it (though it's always a possibility) there has to be some evidence that can make it seem legit. It sounds like the chicken killing incident may or may not have been a wolf...who knows if it was a coyote, or a neighbors dog? I don't blame Scott Fitkin for asking the questions...that's his job.
Why don't some of you ask to volunteer for a day? I bet a day in the field with a bio would be helpful. Who knows- if nothing else you have an audience for your stance on wolves. Maybe there would be some useful dialogue.
I'd have to agree with you. Should be tracks or something to support claim. With all the hype, everyone is seeing wolves today. Lots of chickens have died from Coyotes or the neighbors dog. It very well could have been one though. They are certainly in the area and aren't going to turn down a free snack. She's kind of an idiot for "baiting" them though.
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 08:29:40 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 13, 2009, 08:31:15 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 13, 2009, 08:38:12 AM
I'm not sure what the law reads. I know you better not shoot a red tailed hawk in your chicken pen, and I would think a wolf trumps that in regards to jail time.as much as i agree with people protecting their property, you have a good point...
Post by: bearpaw on August 13, 2009, 08:46:32 AM
We need language in the wolf plan allowing ranchers and pet owners to protect their livestock and pets. Write the commissioners and legislators about this being needed in the wolf plan.
Send polite intelligently written email, keep it short and to the point, it only takes a minute to copy to all important persons. The elected people and wildlife commissioners need your letters of support to push through important considerations in the wolf plan and in the legislature.
Here is a contact list:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,31831.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,31831.0.html)
Post by: mulehunter on August 13, 2009, 09:25:39 AM
My understand that no one cannot shoot wolves under law. I already know it for years. Funny thing what michelle did probablly think about it all week and think over and over again after Scott Fitkin left from investagtor he said maybe coyote or dogs who knows. Well she end up stuck and lost 11 chickens. she think ( I should have shot this bit$h) well maybe it could be a coyote. Oh well. She lost her oppourity.
That's why we are here on site to ask ur people for help. U guys don't have to.... but would be helpful. I can't do everything. I thank u most of people for understand how our rancher feel and our hard work raise rancher. Put up fence, spend everyday, bills, everything what make dream of most rancher. I will never be happy if I were not a rancher. I totally love to raise animals and teach my children how fun farm are. We love to collect eggs, feed pigs and watch our sheep being happy in our pasture know we care about them.
We spend most of our time in our property because I choose to have what I want.
Feel like Feds and biloglist are working on destroying every rancher family and large property by Fed's strong LAW word.
Mulehunter :bash:
Post by: mulehunter on August 13, 2009, 10:18:39 AM
I'm not sure what the law reads. I know you better not shoot a red tailed hawk in your chicken pen, and I would think a wolf trumps that in regards to jail time.
Bone,
I have seen 2 around my pasture but I have dogs around chicken pen. Never had problem Here, remember I post few Eagle and owls and etc while ago on other thread anyway were trying to catch my chicken but never did.
Those bird is beauitful.
If red tailed hawk snagged 1 of my chicken. Well its okay only 6 dollar for chicken. If 11 were killed one day like michelle, well I don't think coyote kill 11 but maybe 6 or 3 and wolves is almost like more than 8 or 10 they took more than coyote. I will be pissed. And lost 8 to 11eggs a day. And start all over after 6 month from baby chicken and I don't want to drive store waste my gas for all foods.
My children will learn to understand and I explain to my children how Feds Fk up system over wolves in american and most rancher already suffer from whole their loss livestock.
What happen to two great pygrenne got killed last spring on other thread and I know it all.
No report because owner doesn't want get in any involved.
Well IF my 2 dogs got killed and got in to my sheeps in my field and kill all well I promise I will contact my lawyer and local News to come here first and explain why scott fitkin won't admit it on 2 kills this spring and have them take picture first thing in morning with a dead wolve next to all livestocks before gamedept or biologlist walk in. No discuss period.
Everyone need to know that wolves are OUR major problem here up okanagon county.
I don't know what s up with 2nd pack in Pend Oreille county. I am sure those pack already found ur permit tag moose for dinner. And plently moose to kill for wolves. Good luck.
We really Need replace Scott Fitkin to new biologlist agent.
He just afraid to admit it and won't be soft on rancher..
Why not u WAcoyotehunter take over his job. And fired him Smile. I think u can do better than him? I don't understand why he tell his side on local news. Cant he just being honest.
Maybe....
Why not he said on local news...
( I wish I culd know what caused livestock I would be happy to manage wolves if I found evidence. And I feel so bad for those family with their loss livestock) but well I read his statement
He just a COLD heart tell people Noo.. Its not wolves its not wolve.. And what else. he can't prove it. But owner name michelle proved she saw TWICE and she know what wolves look like, BUT and what happen to Barbie she proved she saw and Biologlist scott fitkin ONLY believe Barbie but not michelle.
WTF.
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: wolfbait on August 13, 2009, 10:44:51 AM
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 17, 2009, 09:41:55 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 19, 2009, 12:54:44 PM
Quote
Because the feds, environmentalist are not giving them a plan that helps protects their livestock.
wolfbait you hit the nail on the head, if the environmentalists were smart and if they were interested in recovering wildlife populations, they would make a plan work instead of challenging every plan, they have proven their word can not be trusted. In the long run I beleive this will prove to be a mistake.
Post by: boneaddict on August 19, 2009, 12:57:43 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 19, 2009, 01:03:47 PM
If the japanese would do that they would leave them alone.....
Post by: wolfbait on August 27, 2009, 05:47:40 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 27, 2009, 05:57:22 PM
Post by: mulehunter on August 27, 2009, 09:14:59 PM
Friend of mine said he saw a dead wolf in the ditch between Twin lakes cut-off and River bend this morning. He said at first he thought it was a huge coyote then he saw the head, One less wolf to worry about! I won't be going to the services :chuckle: :chuckle:
Wolfbait,
:chuckle: Well, We need to support Scott Fitkin! Oh Geez.... Nah.... I forget He LIED to Local News TWICE! maybe its KARMA!! :dunno:
Next time He better tell the TRUTH!!!!
By the way....
When is the Services and where, Am I invited? :'(
Are they going to fill up story on newspaper? I cant wait to hear what He say. I wonder if this was a FEMALE with Collar? :drool:
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: bearpaw on August 28, 2009, 09:47:01 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 28, 2009, 10:10:41 AM
Post by: mulehunter on September 02, 2009, 07:46:19 PM
That is one photo I will be sad I didn't take. I hope it was a tree hugger that smacked her.
I hope its Female!
Mulehunter :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2009, 03:08:58 AM
Post by: woodswalker on September 14, 2009, 09:46:53 AM
I'm not sure what the law reads. I know you better not shoot a red tailed hawk in your chicken pen, and I would think a wolf trumps that in regards to jail time.as much as i agree with people protecting their property, you have a good point...
SSS :bash: >:( :bash: