Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 04:55:52 PM

Title: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 04:55:52 PM: Hello! I'm having a custom rifle built by my gunsmith in the next month or so but I can't decide what caliber I want the rifle chambered in. This rifle is going to be used for Elk primarily built on a model 700 action with a Dougles barrel and a Bell and Carlson stock. The action is standard long 30/06 from a model 700. My smith is pointing me to a 8mm-06 the ballistics look (OK) but I'm thinking maybe 358 Norma Mag or something diffrent. I own 300 mag and 7mm mags so I guess I'm looking for something a little diffrent I'm new to the whole wildcat concept I'm 27yrs old but my father would be reloading for whatever I decide to have put together. I'm asking what you guys would reccommend for a wildcat that will fit in my action. Anyone have any experiences using the 8mm-06 on Elk? I know it used to be more popular years ago in all the older German Mauser rifles guys brought back from WW2. Thanks!
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on July 30, 2009, 05:20:28 PM: I cant think of anything built off a 06 case thats going to be better for elk then you 330 mag or 7 mag. I'd be looking for another action, 7mm,338, or 375 but thats just me. If set on using that action and a chambering based off the 06 case then I like the .280AI but you already have the 7mag so probably a 338-06
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 05:27:21 PM: I'm going to stick with this action It's a lefty 700 action I got for free. Ive got plenty of Elk boomers ranging from 30-06 to 300 Rum so I'm not in "need" of a Elk rifle just want to build one that's diffrent. Isn't the 8mm-06 the ballistic twin of the 338-06?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on July 30, 2009, 05:37:45 PM: Yep, but theres more .338 bullets out there then 8mm.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 05:56:01 PM: Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 30, 2009, 06:00:42 PM: 35 Whelen's a hellava grizz and bull gun..
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Tony 270WSM on July 30, 2009, 06:01:05 PM: Sounds like a nice custom you'll have. Honestly, I'd probably just do a plain 'ole 30-06. Should you sell it one day, more marketable than the wildcats. Plus the '06 fits between the 300 and 7mm mags you already have. Could use light or light magnum loads depending on the situation you want to use it in. The older I get, the better a 30-06 sounds to me.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 06:16:16 PM: I hear ya on the 35 Whelen! It would make a nice rifle but I'm looking for something a little flatter shooting I guess the 8mm-06 shoots a little flatter than the old 30-06 because you have more powder capacity using the shorter 8mm bullets is this correct? The only ballistics for the 8mm-06 I can find are for the old German and Turkish rifles with old powders and 20-22 inch barrels. I'm putting either a Dougles or Krieger 24inch barrel on it and a strong new action so I can load up to higher pressures so the ballistics would be a little better I guess.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Straight Shooter on July 30, 2009, 06:55:07 PM: You already have a flat shooter (that would be more than adequate for anything in North America) in the .300 Win Mag. If you are dead-set on a "flat" shooting .32-.35 caliber, I'd personally scrap the custom build and look for a .338 Win Mag or .325 WSM. If not, I think the .35 Whelen is an excellent choice. :twocents:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 07:31:49 PM: Well I'm not going to scrap the custom rifle idea, I can go buy a 338 or whatever other caliber I want anytime I feel like it, to be honest I own many rifles but this left handed action was given to me for free so I'm going to utilize it. I would think the 8mm-06 would be a better choice then the 35 Whelen because it seems like it has a little more range. I'm also going to run the 338-06 idea past my smith and see what he has to say about it. Any other suggestions out there?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: G.R.K on July 30, 2009, 07:55:34 PM: 6.5mm-06 or 375 Whelen.here's some info. http://www.reloadbench.com/cartw.html
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Huntbear on July 30, 2009, 07:59:23 PM: The .338-06 or the .35 Whelen seem to be the most obvious. I think it really boils down to you and what you want.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: norsepeak on July 30, 2009, 08:02:25 PM: you could go with one of a number of Allen Mags. He's got some awsome wildcats that are ballistically almost untouchable. I have the 270 A.M. shootin 169.5 grn pills with 840 b.c. at 3400 fps. Can reach out and touch somethings with it. It's a lot of fun to shoot. He makes A.M.s from 257 on up including 338 and bigger.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Straight Shooter on July 30, 2009, 08:13:44 PM: 6.5-284

A 1000-yard cartridge...

http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bobcat on July 30, 2009, 08:17:18 PM: I'm with Tony, I'd just go with a 30-06. But if you want something different then the 338-06 would be a great choice. I like the 35 Whelen also but sounds like you want a smaller caliber. You could also go with a 270 Winchester. At least that would be something you don't already have.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 08:35:42 PM: I'm not against the 35 whelen but to me it seems like a brush cartridge and I already own a 444 Marlin and a 303 Jungle Carbine I use for my brush guns. Was looking for something that shoots a little flatter I guess, that 6.5-06 looks very nice but I wonder how it would work for a Elk rifle. The 375 Whelen also looks impressive but I don't think I will ever need anything over 200gr bullet for what I'm hunting. Maybe a 30-06 Ack Imp?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jerbear on July 30, 2009, 08:56:32 PM: I have several rifles, but the one I pull out of the rack all the time is my 8mm/06. Mine is a sporterized Mauser that I shot as an 8mm for years. The 06 case gave me more get up and go, and I haven't regretted it. The 220 grn Sierra plants them where they stand. I have no trouble finding bullets. I just got some 180 grn Noslers that I want to try out. It is a great caliber.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Mookie on July 30, 2009, 08:57:39 PM: 6.5x47 Lapua. It is now beating out the .308 in international competitions.

http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=908

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm67%2Fshelbyfan%2FGuns%2FBallistics%2FCF%2520Rifle%2F65x47.jpg&hash=89e4d831a8965e883ef573d70c00c5110940d239)
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 09:05:55 PM: I think I'm leaning towards the 8mm-06 I don't have a 8mm rifle and from what some people are saying it plants elk pretty good. A 338-06 sounds like a good cartridge too with a better bullet selection but honestly they both seem about equal to eachother. Whatever I decide on building I will post some pictures so you all can take a look.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 09:06:28 PM: Sounds like you have lots of good guns, why not take a walk on the wild side.....

6mm / 06

http://www.udarrell.com/243-06-ballistics-85grbthp.htm (http://www.udarrell.com/243-06-ballistics-85grbthp.htm)

don't know anything about it, just heard it was a wildcat.....
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 30, 2009, 09:25:53 PM: Yeah that 6mm-06 looks very impressive would make for a great long range Deer/Antelope cartridge! maybe it's worth asking my smith what he thinks about it.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 09:31:27 PM: I don't know if it's real accurate, but he probably will have heard....

better ask about necking down 25/06 brass
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: WA Redneck on July 31, 2009, 11:06:27 AM: Here's another vote for the 6.5-06. I also like the 25-06 idea. Both will plant elk fine if you do your part.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2009, 11:10:42 AM: What's the advantage of a 6.5/06 over the 270 Win?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: jackelope on July 31, 2009, 03:19:05 PM: it sounds like it's gonna be tough to talk you out of your 8mm/06
:dunno:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: rasbo on July 31, 2009, 03:44:41 PM: dont know crap about reloading..when you say 243-06 does that mean you are necking down a 06 shell to 243???So then you would have ta have a barrel made ?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Huntboy on July 31, 2009, 04:20:04 PM: Will the action work for a 30-378, and aren't the ballistic of it better?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 31, 2009, 04:37:34 PM: Man my head is spinning with all these wildcats you guys are throwing at me! :IBCOOL: I'm not fixated on the 8mm-06 caliber the ballistics look pretty good to me for a Elk thumper, but on the other hand one of those 6mm flat shooting cals would be a nice for Deer, Varmints, Antelope and other moderate size game. I don't own a fast 25cal rifle I the closest thing to it I got is a 270WSW. a 25-06 would be nice but I could also just buy one off the shelf if I wanted one. I think the 30-378 needs a magnum bolt face but I could be mistaken.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on July 31, 2009, 05:58:49 PM: None of the three, 8MM/06,338/06, or the Whelen fit into the "flat" shooting catagory. Any differance is moot. They are all 300 yard grizz and bull guns. The 338 offers the best boolit selection by far, 8mm and 35 are about the same, thanks to the 325. Swift has a 200 grain Scirocco in the works for the 8mm, that'd be a goodun for your 8/06. Get er done, ans post picks when your done. Later
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: catwithboost on July 31, 2009, 06:10:17 PM: Quote from: bearpaw on July 30, 2009, 09:06:28 PM
Sounds like you have lots of good guns, why not take a walk on the wild side.....

6mm / 06

http://www.udarrell.com/243-06-ballistics-85grbthp.htm (http://www.udarrell.com/243-06-ballistics-85grbthp.htm)

don't know anything about it, just heard it was a wildcat.....
That is what I am doing.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: magnanimous_j on July 31, 2009, 07:00:50 PM: Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind with the 8MM.06 and are looking for someone to validate your choice.

Go for it, if that's what you want.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Huntbear on July 31, 2009, 07:14:02 PM: I have a .257 Ackley Improved that I built on a long action. I can seat the 120 gr. Partitions out to the bottom of the neck, and still fit in the magazine. I am getting 25-06 ballistics from that short case. Between 2900-3000 fps with handloads. I know guys that use em for blackbear and elk, take nothing but head shots.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 31, 2009, 09:52:20 PM: I'm not looking for anyone to validate my choice on the 8mm-06 the ballistics validate themselves it can push a 125gr sp bullet over 3400 fps a 150gr around 3200fps and 220gr around 2600 fps. these velocities are not close to maximum pressures either. I have not made up my mind on any cartridge yet just asking for the opinions of members here that have more experience in building rifles than I do. Whatever I decide I'm sure it will be fun to shoot and I'm looking foreword to the entire experience.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: yorketransport on July 31, 2009, 10:18:01 PM: When I built my first custom I was stuck on either the 8mm-06, or 338-06. Since they're ballistic twins, I went with the 338-06 because of the better bullet selection. They're both great rounds.

That said, if I were building a dedicated elk rifle on you particular action I'd go 375 Ruger. If you want to do a wildcat you could go 338/375 Ruger (I've also heard it called the 338 CampFire). The Ruger is a great round and all you would need to do is open up the bolt face on your action. Once I got my 375 Ruger, the 338-06 started getting left behind.

Good luck with the build, whatever it ends up being. And post lots of updates.

Andrew
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bobcat on July 31, 2009, 10:26:38 PM: 375 Ruger... now that's a great idea! I wish I'd of thought of that. :tup:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on July 31, 2009, 11:34:37 PM: That 338/375 Ruger will fit in my 30-06 action? Looks like a sweet round!
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on August 01, 2009, 12:43:19 AM: Quote from: Elk-aholic on July 31, 2009, 09:52:20 PM
I'm not looking for anyone to validate my choice on the 8mm-06 the ballistics validate themselves it can push a 125gr sp bullet over 3400 fps a 150gr around 3200fps and 220gr around 2600 fps. these velocities are not close to maximum pressures either. I have not made up my mind on any cartridge yet just asking for the opinions of members here that have more experience in building rifles than I do. Whatever I decide I'm sure it will be fun to shoot and I'm looking foreword to the entire experience.
You better double check those numbers, their off by a couple hundred FPS or more.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 01, 2009, 09:13:10 AM: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/323Cal(8.20mm)/8mm%2006%20Page%20292%20and%20293.pdf

I've listed data from one website and I have loads from around 3 or 4 manuals right in front of me the numbers look good to me. Not off by a couple hundred fps or more and those numbers don't even reach 60,000psi which you can easily achieve with this cartridge.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on August 01, 2009, 09:56:50 AM: Just browsed through a few Manuals I have here .Honady 7'th edition's fastest loads listed are 32FPS for a 125gr pill, 2900FPS for a 150gr. pill, 2400FPS for a 220gr. bullet.
Nosler 5'th only shows two loads for the 8mm-06. A 180gr at 2774 and a 200 at 2600. Thats the fastest loads in that manual.
Speer no. 13, 150 at 2900 FPS, 170 at 2700 FPS, 200 at 2600 FPS. Barnes No3 and Hodgdon 2006 dont list loads for the 8mm-06.
That's all the books I have on my reloading bench. I've never owned a 8mm-06 and dont have any experience with the cartridge so I'm just posting info from the loading manuals I have. Talk to your smith, get his opinion on the cartridge, better yet talk to someone that shoots a 8mm-06.
I guess the only reason I responded to this post is IMOH you'll never build anything off a 06 case that will keep up with your 300 mag.
Have a good weekend, I'm off to Humptulips for a couple of days.
Jamie
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 01, 2009, 10:11:59 AM: Have a good weekend man, bear season starts today I'm getting excited.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bobcat on August 01, 2009, 12:54:25 PM: Quote from: Jamieb on August 01, 2009, 09:56:50 AM
I guess the only reason I responded to this post is IMOH you'll never build anything off a 06 case that will keep up with your 300 mag.

Jamie

That's true, unless that 375 Ruger, or 338/375 Ruger can be chambered in that '06 action.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 03, 2009, 05:38:33 PM: Ive decided to scrap the 30-06 action and instead use a 7mm mag action from a Remington 700 SPS. Thinking of having some sort of 300 magnum made don't know yet but this action gives me more options I think.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: ecnclan on August 03, 2009, 05:51:26 PM: Quote
None of the three, 8MM/06,338/06, or the Whelen fit into the "flat" shooting catagory. Any differance is moot. They are all 300 yard grizz and bull guns. The 338 offers the best boolit selection by far, 8mm and 35 are about the same, thanks to the 325. Swift has a 200 grain Scirocco in the works for the 8mm, that'd be a goodun for your 8/06. Get er done, ans post picks when your done.

:yeah:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on August 03, 2009, 06:05:09 PM: Elk-aholic.
Now your on the right track. :)
25" #3 BBL chambered in 30-338 shooting 180gr. NBT or 200 gr Accubonds, top it with a leupold 3.5x10 or 4.5x14 with M-1's
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 03, 2009, 06:40:27 PM: Yeah! :IBCOOL: That 30-338 looks like it would be a perfect elk cartridge! I think that's going to be my new baby! I'm going tomorrow to buy the SPS and drop it off at the smith Wednesday.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on August 03, 2009, 06:50:50 PM: Is the mag well on the SPS and the BDL the same length?
The 700 BDL rifles in 7mag. based cartridges have a long mag well. This and the fact that the bolt face is so large, there's just a ton of possible chamberings to choose from. The 7mag case is the same as the .257 WBY, 264 win mag, 7 mag, 30-338/ 30 newton, 375 taylor, and 416 taylor. with little work opening the bolt face slightly and installing sako extractor and now you can choose from the 8mm rem mag case and its offspring. Even the big RUM's will fit in that action without a problem.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 03, 2009, 07:13:13 PM: I would think the bottom metal on all the magnum 700 actions would be the same dimensions but I'm not positive on that. :dunno:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on August 03, 2009, 07:15:04 PM: I know they are on the BDL and the sendero but I havent played with the SPS.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: jjhunter on August 03, 2009, 07:20:42 PM: I may be too late.....but, you might want to look at the 7 stw with 180 bergers. I think it would be the best long-range deer elk medicine out there. It is my next build! Pretty scary in a ballistics program! :twocents:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: KillBilly on August 03, 2009, 07:21:03 PM: Get a Whizz Bang
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: KillBilly on August 03, 2009, 07:22:52 PM: Quote from: jjhunter on August 03, 2009, 07:20:42 PM
I may be too late.....but, you might want to look at the 7 stw with 180 bergers. I think it would be the best long-range deer elk medicine out there. It is my next build! Pretty scary in a ballistics program! :twocents:

The 300 RUM will outshoot my STW with any practical load.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: jjhunter on August 03, 2009, 07:48:53 PM: Quote from: KillBilly on August 03, 2009, 07:22:52 PM
Quote from: jjhunter on August 03, 2009, 07:20:42 PM
I may be too late.....but, you might want to look at the 7 stw with 180 bergers. I think it would be the best long-range deer elk medicine out there. It is my next build! Pretty scary in a ballistics program! :twocents:

The 300 RUM will outshoot my STW with any practical load.

It's your Koolaid.......drink up :chuckle:
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on August 03, 2009, 08:10:02 PM: It's not too late to look at the 7 STW, I have until wendsday to decide on what caliber I'm using.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on April 14, 2010, 12:39:24 PM: Got my rifle back today after 9 months of waiting. 300 REM Ultra Mag was the choice I went with...
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: bobcat on April 14, 2010, 01:17:18 PM: 300 RUM, good choice. What is the size of that objective lens on that scope? Looks bigger than anything I've ever seen. :o
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: jackelope on April 14, 2010, 01:24:29 PM: southpaw!
is that a Vais brake?
really nice looking rig...
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on April 14, 2010, 02:34:53 PM: The Leupold Scope has a 56mm Obj lens and its super bright. The Muzzle Brake was handmade by my gunsmith he did a real nice job he put a very nice thread on it you can't even see it. The barrel is a Prem Douglas Air-Gaged 1:11 twist
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Hillbilly270 on April 14, 2010, 03:00:55 PM: sweet set up.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Jamieb on April 14, 2010, 03:18:15 PM: Nice rifle, even with that hubble on top :)
Any idea what it weighs?
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: MtnMuley on April 14, 2010, 03:23:54 PM: Very nice set-up! I too, went with a rail mount, and am very impressed. :)
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: whacker1 on April 14, 2010, 03:54:46 PM: looks pretty good, but it looks like your bolt handle is on the wrong side of the gun. :chuckle:

Seriously though, go out and enjoy yourself at $2 per round like the rest of us do. Nothing like using up 2lbs of powder per 100 rounds or less.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: shaneman153D on April 14, 2010, 06:23:07 PM: Quote from: norsepeak on July 30, 2009, 08:02:25 PM
you could go with one of a number of Allen Mags. He's got some awsome wildcats that are ballistically almost untouchable. I have the 270 A.M. shootin 169.5 grn pills with 840 b.c. at 3400 fps. Can reach out and touch somethings with it. It's a lot of fun to shoot. He makes A.M.s from 257 on up including 338 and bigger.

Is that a typo? What brand of bullets? :o
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 14, 2010, 06:38:30 PM: looks great.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: high country on April 14, 2010, 06:49:58 PM: Quote from: shaneman153D on April 14, 2010, 06:23:07 PM
Quote from: norsepeak on July 30, 2009, 08:02:25 PM
you could go with one of a number of Allen Mags. He's got some awsome wildcats that are ballistically almost untouchable. I have the 270 A.M. shootin 169.5 grn pills with 840 b.c. at 3400 fps. Can reach out and touch somethings with it. It's a lot of fun to shoot. He makes A.M.s from 257 on up including 338 and bigger.

Is that a typo? What brand of bullets? :o

I am betting on lost river
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: Elk-aholic on April 14, 2010, 09:25:38 PM: Quote from: MtnMuley on April 14, 2010, 03:23:54 PM
Very nice set-up! I too, went with a rail mount, and am very impressed. :)

Yeah the guy who built the rifle for me was very adamant about using a Tactical base and ring setup on the rifle because of the recoil. It's a EGW picatinny base with HRT tactical rings. I don't have a scale to weight the rifle but I was surprised at how light it was when I first picked it up. I'm guessing around 10-11 lbs.
Title: Re: Custom Rifle Question.
Post by: fremont on April 18, 2010, 08:28:40 AM: Nice setup.....but I'd prefer not to be sitting at the bench next to you with that muzzle break! :bdid: