Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 12:21:33 AM
Attached is a picture of the general overlay of the units. We need to make our voices heard regarding this situation. After hearing from the local biologist as well as other reports (NWCN Mt. Baker goat report) we know for a fact that there are 400-500 goats in the Mt. Baker units. These subunits should all be able to support at least one tag. I personally have seen at least 80 goats in Unit 4-1 alone this year and have seen many in 4-2 as well. I don't have any personal experience with unit 4-11 so I will not speak in regards to that unit. Hunters need to be given tags in these units before they transplant goats out of the Mt. Baker area and bring them elsewhere.
Two years ago, SCI paid for aerial surveys of the Mt. Baker units and established sufficient goat numbers for all of the Mt. Baker units. That is the reason hunters were given 5 tags this year instead of 2 like the last two years. But units 4-1 and 4-2 in particular have been left closed until further research has been established. We need to let WDFW know that we are frustrated! Now SCI has refused to fund further goat research for WDFW because WDFW ignores research and manages in the ways that they want to manage. No further research is necessary to know that these units have a sustainable herd that can tolerate at least one tag per year. In the early 90's the Ruth Creek unit alone was given 10-15 tags every year. It is such a hard unit to hunt that in many years, only 2-4 goats were taken out of the unit. Let WDFW know that we want more tags, in all these units and we don't want our money spent on transplanting goats out of the Mt. Baker area.
Lastly, this year WDFW drew 2 Mt. Baker West tags and 3 Mt. Baker East tags. After the hunters were drawn, they were then split up into 3 subunits. From what I know, there have been know serious complaints made to WDFW regarding this second drawing, but it is a bunch of BS. Imagine if you applied for Mt. Baker East just because you wanted to hunt the Avalanche Gorge area, and then after you got drawn, WDFW tells you you must hunt the Dillard Creek area. Not only are the 2 sub units accessible from completely different road systems (that happen to be a 2 hour drive apart) but some hunters (myself included) have spent little or no time inthat particular subunit. Hunters should be able to apply for the unit they want to draw, not be split up into different subunits after they are drawn for a tag. Additionally, if WDFW split the Mt. Baker goat units up into 5 (or 7) different units that we could apply for, it would spread applicants out between more choices and give us better draw odds on the various goat hunts. We also need to let WDFW know that next year, we want to have the choice to apply for any subunit of our choosing.
Please email WDFW, the Commission, and anyone else in regards to these management problems.
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 12:29:00 AM
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Mr. Vander Giessen:
Thank you for your letter to the Fish and Wildlife Commission regarding mountain goat regulation changes. The Commission has asked that I respond to your questions directly.
Our intention for the rule changes is to make mountain goat regulations more dynamic and flexible in order to adjust hunting seasons in a timely manner if populations are over-harvested. That being said, our intent is not to change permit levels or hunt boundaries once these are published in the annual hunting pamphlet. We want flexibility between seasons rather than within an existing season.
In regard to the hunt unit boundary, currently we are drafting the new hunt area boundaries for Mt. Baker and anticipate these to be out and available to the public this month. If you have specific questions about Mt. Baker, please do not hesitate in contacting our District Biologist, Mike Davison, at (360) 466-4345, ext 280.
Thank you again for taking the time to ask the Department to further clarify the new rule changes.
Sincerely,
Donny Martorello
Carnivore, Furbearer, and Special Species Section Manager
I received that email on May 8, 12 days before the application deadline for special hunts. The mountain goat hunters did not receive their unit boundaries until the last week of July. :bash:
Post by: Bearhunter on September 10, 2009, 05:58:13 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 10, 2009, 10:56:04 AM
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Now SCI has refused to fund further goat research for WDFW because WDFW ignores research and manages in the ways that they want to manage.
:stup:
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 11:32:27 AM
QuoteNow SCI has refused to fund further goat research for WDFW because WDFW ignores research and manages in the ways that they want to manage.
:stup:
No denying that. Luckily, from what I've heard, SCI is trying to fight this. Hopefully we can get to a point where if the aerial surveys are funded, the amount of goats found dictates the number of tags.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 10, 2009, 11:37:41 AM
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 12:13:53 PM
Why don't they want use to hunt goats......just doesn't make alot of sense to me. It seems like they are going out of there way to limit opportunity and make it as difficult as it can be.
It's all politics. WDFW is listening to the people of the state and limiting hunting opportunities based on popular opinions. In reality, that is not the job of WDFW, particularly it is not the job of the WDFW biologists. The job of the WDFW biologists is to do sound research and establish the population levels and potential sustainable harvest. Then the Fish and Game Commission and other government agencies are supposed to use that "unbiased" data to set appropriate tag levels for the given population demands. If the Commission decided that since the voters of our state didn't want a high mountain goat harvest even though the populations could support it, it would be a completely different situation.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 10, 2009, 12:29:04 PM
Just because hikers dont want to see dead goats is not an excuse for closing season or severely limiting hunting them.. time for them to grow up.
>:(
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on September 10, 2009, 12:29:52 PM
What we need is a central place that all goat scouters/hikers can report goat numbers/locations if there isn't going to be ongoing funding for fly-overs.
Fighting the political aspect is one thing, but you need solid data on the herds to make a point.
-Steve
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 01:33:15 PM
A friend of mine is in 4-6 right now.. (dunno how he's currently got cell service). He's in an area that we've seen goats before, and he's seen some this morning.
What we need is a central place that all goat scouters/hikers can report goat numbers/locations if there isn't going to be ongoing funding for fly-overs.
Fighting the political aspect is one thing, but you need solid data on the herds to make a point.
-Steve
You're right and I actually am trying to work on something along those lines. I will definitely keep everyone updated on that as things progress.
Also, some of you might be interested in the following link. It is a research paper written by a WDFW employee in 2003 regarding the Mount Baker mountain goat herd. Interesting that it wasn't until 2006 that we had our first mountain goat season up there. >:(
http://wdfw.wa.gov/science/articles/mtn_goats/mtn_goat_prog_rpt.pdf
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on September 10, 2009, 01:47:04 PM
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Interesting that it wasn't until 2006 that we had our first mountain goat season up there.
Huh? Those units were hunted long before 2006.
-Steve
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 02:51:30 PM
QuoteInteresting that it wasn't until 2006 that we had our first mountain goat season up there.
Huh? Those units were hunted long before 2006.
-Steve
They were closed from the early or mid 90's until 2006. WDFW claimed that the goat population had disappeared due to overhunting.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 10, 2009, 02:57:14 PM
Post by: shanevg on September 10, 2009, 02:58:26 PM
maybe we can shut down WDFW for a couple decades for being inept. :dunno:
I could handle that!
Post by: Bighorse on September 10, 2009, 04:15:36 PM
We've been doing this for years and our population keeps growing. It's apples and oranges as far as access and habitat is concerned but still solid managment history on which to draw conclusions and argue with those folks at WDFG.
Good luck....hunting goats is very cool. The perfect combination of being an athlete and a sportsman.
Post by: sagerat on September 10, 2009, 08:48:48 PM
Post by: hayes202 on September 12, 2009, 06:42:25 PM
Post by: actionshooter on September 17, 2009, 05:40:32 PM
Post by: BillyG on October 05, 2009, 03:53:01 PM