Post by: huntnphool on October 13, 2009, 09:02:48 PM
How many of you hear some guy take 4-5-6+++ shots?
Post by: 7mmfan on October 13, 2009, 09:09:03 PM
Post by: luvtohnt on October 13, 2009, 09:10:32 PM
Brzndon
p.s. typing with the wii takes forever.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on October 13, 2009, 09:15:54 PM
.....BOOOOM,BOOOMM..........................BOOOOM,.................BOOOMMM.......BOOOOOOOMMMM
Nine friggin times this guy caps off, I'm like WTH is he shooting at, a yeti????
I run into the guys at the bottom of the hill late in the day, he killed a smallish spike. Only hit it two times.
Post by: buckreaper on October 13, 2009, 09:17:37 PM
Post by: runningboard on October 13, 2009, 09:25:35 PM
Quote
I agree with 7mmfan. After about three shots I always figure the deer is running for it's life and the person "doesn't know when to say when".once my brother asked if he could use my rifle, I had one of those cartridge holders on the stock, holds nine. he says "can I have some more?" I reply "If you miss that much, you should just stay home!"
Post by: littlebuf on October 13, 2009, 10:16:36 PM
Post by: bankwalker on October 13, 2009, 10:31:15 PM
those people who were shooting first went 100yds down the road and started shooting again at a spike, 4-5 shots and they got thier spike. and drug it right up to where we were parked. from what my mom said, they didnt seem to happy to be outdone by a little girl :chuckle:
Post by: h2ofowlr on October 13, 2009, 10:41:38 PM
Post by: dewandgin on October 13, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on October 13, 2009, 11:32:43 PM
Post by: HuntingFanatic on October 13, 2009, 11:55:55 PM
When I was 13 my dad emptied his rifle at an antelope at around 300 yds.....while he was reloading I dropped him in his tracks! (of coarse he was missing his front right leg by then! :chuckle:)
Post by: webbspinner on October 14, 2009, 12:12:33 AM
Post by: DeerHarvester on October 14, 2009, 12:34:15 AM
Post by: mtndew on October 14, 2009, 12:45:49 AM
Post by: webbspinner on October 14, 2009, 01:21:53 AM
Post by: Fish4Fun on October 14, 2009, 06:23:27 AM
Post by: ing on October 14, 2009, 06:37:38 AM
Post by: Gobble on October 14, 2009, 07:01:13 AM
It happens :dunno:
Post by: GoldTip on October 14, 2009, 07:08:41 AM
Post by: Fish4Fun on October 14, 2009, 07:38:54 AM
ALL of my guns are tack drivers, and are shot to make sure they are. I went as far as setting up a Weatherby Vangard in .223 Remington complete with a Leopold Vari X-II just like our hunting rifes as a practice gun. The balistics of the .223 are pretty close to most hunting rounds out to about 200 yards. just no big kick like the .300 Weatherby has, and cheap to shoot all Summer long. This is going to be my girlfriends first year to hunt with me. She is ready because of the .223 and the practice we have put in. I have no doubt when her .257 Roberts barks on opening morning we will have meat on the ground.
Post by: Rick on October 14, 2009, 07:42:18 AM
Sounds like you are all expert marksmen (yeah right). I guess I'll be the first to say that I missed a buck 9 times. Yeah I said it and I'll say it again, 9 times. No excusses, no explanations and I'm not affraid to admit it. So who else is gonna pony up?
No ponying up from me,I don't even carry 9 rounds into the woods. I have 3 in the magazine (actually holds 5) and I carry 3 more in my pocket.
I did shoot three times at a 130ish" blacktail (I was 14). I had a borrowed 30-06 that hadn't been shot in lord knows how long. I was aiming behind the shoulder and missed the first two times. I aimed behind the shoulder one last time and actually hit the deer in the neck. :chuckle:
Other than that,I don't remember having to shoot a deer more than once to drop it. I have shot a couple in the neck because they weren't quite dead when I walked up to them. I guess that counts as shooting them twice. :dunno:
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on October 14, 2009, 07:47:43 AM
Post by: let.it.fly on October 14, 2009, 07:54:25 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on October 14, 2009, 07:56:57 AM
On a side not Ive been out at Kenmore this week and its a pretty sad deal how awful your average shooter is....if I had a dollar for ever time I have herd "thats good enough to hit a deer" Id be a rich man. :(
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on October 14, 2009, 07:59:10 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on October 14, 2009, 08:01:20 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 14, 2009, 08:02:03 AM
Post by: Heavily Armed Hiker on October 14, 2009, 08:11:49 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 14, 2009, 08:13:56 AM
Just because you can shoot well at the range doesn't mean you will be a good shot when it counts in the field. When I was in the Marine Corps I considered myself to be an excellant shot. With peep sights I could hit a man sized target at 500 yards 9-10 out of 10 times. I looked down upon the police officers we all saw on tv in those shoot outs who missed time after time with their pistols at close distances, alway saying I could have done better. I knew in my heart that if I was ever in a gun fight I'd be calmly taking well aimed shots because that's what I did in training.
Then in 2003 I deployed to Kuwait and then Iraq for the invasion. When I got in my first gunfight I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Nothing happened because before I knew it I had emptied my 30 round magazine as fast as I could shoot three round bursts and hadn't yet realized I had even fired a single round. After a few encounters I calmed down enough to take carefull shots using the controlled pair method like I had been taught in training. The reason people shoot as fast as they can when they're nervous is because this is a natural reaction. When people are scared or nervous with a huge adrenaline rush with your heart beat in the 170bpm range, without training we fire just as fast as we can. Normally without aiming.
The point is is that it has been found that when your adrenaline goes through the roof and your heart is beating at 170 bpm you lose all of your fine motor skills which is what you use for accurate shooting. There is nothing you can do about it. When you are that excited you WILL lose all of your fine motor skills. The only thing you can do about it is to learn how to control your excitement and adrenaline so that you do not hit 170bpm so you maintain your fine motor skills.
So next time on tv when you see a cop or soldier firing rapid fire at a guy 20yds away and he misses every time don't be like me and say "I could do better" because you wouldn't be able to do better. Unless you've been in multiple gun fights.
Post by: SilkWWU on October 14, 2009, 08:17:54 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 14, 2009, 08:20:20 AM
We camped next to this group of guys a couple of years ago that climb the hill near camp and wait for elk to walk through the opposite hill side. Once the elk started walking through, they would unload. They were taking 600+ yard shots, across a road, at a spike. Just kept lobbing bullets until they finally connected. A foot high and a foot to the left was their motto. And we wonder how hunters get a bad name >:(
Was this in the Colockum. The rifle season during the Colockum is a disgrace to the good name of hunting. That is the land of multiple shots. I've seen and heard guys shooting spikes that were easily 600-800 yds away SURROUNDED BY COWS!!!! We should all thank god that PETA or the like do not go up there with their video cameras because the reputation of Washington hunters would be seriously damaged.
The people of WA would get to see guys lined up on the roads slinging lead as fast as they can at a string of elk like a shooting gallery. Or guys driving their ATV's all over closed roads with dead spikes on the back of their ATV's with limbs and heads dragging on the ground. NOt saysing everyone up there does this but there is ALOT of that stuff going on.
Post by: fisheral87 on October 14, 2009, 08:25:33 AM
Quote
My Dad used to work at the True Value Hardware store in Concrete. Every year, this one old guy would come in to buy his hunting license and tags. He would then buy one round of 30-06. According to him, that's all he ever needs.
Well when you can walk out on your back porch with a stiff Irish coffee, sit down in your chair and get a good rest on the railing I'd only need one round too. Unless it was my third coffee. :)
Post by: Gobble on October 14, 2009, 08:34:02 AM
I missed 5 legal bucks opening weekend 5 yrs ago. I had only missed once prior to that. Found out that my scope came loose (20 yr old locktite powdered over time) and one of the deer I shot at was about a 170 5 pt :bash:
It happens :dunno:
Let me just clear something up so no one thinks I just pulled the gun out of the case opening day.
I ALWAYS shoot my rifle weeks before the season to make sure it dialed in from the previous year. . I did that year as well and instead of a 3 shot group that was the size of a quarter or less at 150 yrds this time it was 3 shots in a 3in group. I thought that was wierd but concluded that I must have been off that day. Un beknownest to me my 20 yr old locktite "Powdered" after I switched to High Energy rounds and nocked my scope loose (was not loose enough to rattle but loose enough to mess my pattern up) Just didn't want to give the wrong impression. I have NEVER missed an animal while benchresting up to that point, so I knew something was wrong.
Post by: boneaddict on October 14, 2009, 08:47:22 AM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,811.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,811.0.html)
Post by: halflife65 on October 14, 2009, 08:52:43 AM
The point is is that it has been found that when your adrenaline goes through the roof and your heart is beating at 170 bpm you lose all of your fine motor skills which is what you use for accurate shooting. There is nothing you can do about it. When you are that excited you WILL lose all of your fine motor skills. The only thing you can do about it is to learn how to control your excitement and adrenaline so that you do not hit 170bpm so you maintain your fine motor skills.
First of all, I want to say "thanks" to Colockum for his service to our country and that I don't presume to relate my experience to being in a gunfight with anybody anywhere - and hopefully I never am.
That being said, he's absolutely correct about nervousness and lack of fine motor skills. I wish I could remember where I read this, but I found something that described the body's natural reaction to stress – there is nothing you can do about it when you become that stressed. Experience and training are about the only thing that can overcome it.
When I was 12 or so, I was hunting for blacktails with my dad. A little forky stepped out in front of us at about 100 yards and he told me to shoot. I had beeen shooting really well at the range, but it wasn’t the best situation for a young kid to shoot his first deer and he might not have had me do that if he had to do it over again (parents learn, too.) I had to shoot offhand and the rifle was a bit heavy for me. I distinctly remember watching the deer going in and out of the scope and when I finally pulled the trigger I saw a geyser of dirt and snow erupt in front of us at about 30 yards. I was in so much shock I just stood there and didn’t even put another shell in the gun. Maybe some other people’s reaction to that situation would have just been to unload the gun at the deer. My dad looked at me and told me to shoot again and I didn’t move. He turned around and just shot the deer.
After that experience he told me that if I can hold it together for 20 seconds I had the rest of my life to be excited. It seemed like “no *censored*?” advice at the time, but it definitely gave me something of a mantra to concentrate on when I was younger and I’ve never had a meltdown again. It happened once and that’s it. I’ve since shot more deer than I can remember, some bears and some elk and, while I’ve missed, it wasn’t because I was overcome by excitement. I’ve heard of bow hunters that have their process memorized before they shoot (grip, pull the bow back, select the right pin, make sure that it is level, concentrate on back muscles to squeeze the trigger, etc.) to help them concentrate on something other than being too excited. Maybe people that are overly excited need to slow things down for themselves and remember what they did in pracice to make a good shot. And not take stupid 600 yard shots.
Post by: colockumelk on October 14, 2009, 09:37:05 AM
In fact our body goes through many of the same things when confronted with a huge buck or bull as it does when in a combat situation. Here is what I would recommend doing to prepare for that moment. Obviously we need to make sure our scope is on. So go to the range and zero your weapon using a bench rest. Once it's dialed in never shoot from a steady shooting position again. Shoot like you would in the field. If you use shooting stick then use them. Obviously you can't simulate a 350 inch bull but you can do a 50 yd sprint with full gear on, do 20 pushups and then site in and give yourself 3 seconds to shoot.
Be patient at first you wont hit crap. But after you do things like this you'll be deadly. Also for you "snipers" out there that plan or would even consider shooting out to 500 yds. Practise at that distance. Do you even know how much drop you have at that distance???
Here's a quick table for those of you that insist on shooting out to that distance. If you don't believe me then google the Army Sniping Manual "FM 23-10"
If you zero your weapon at 300 meters here is the amount of drop you should expect from your 30 caliber weapon. So if your going to shoot that far then practise that far. Also pleas read the following field manual so you know how to adjust for wind temperature, elevation etc. Otherwise you will miss or worse wound an animal.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/23-10/ch3.htm#fig3_24 (http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/23-10/ch3.htm#fig3_24)
400meters 14" of drop (1ft 2")
500meters 34" of drop (2ft 10")
600meters 59" of drop (4ft 11")
700meters 93" of drop (7ft 8")
800meters 135" of drop (11ft 3")
900meters 187" of drop (15ft 7")
1000meters 257" of drop (21ft 5")
Post by: wastickslinger on October 14, 2009, 10:09:33 AM
......Coyote that is. :chuckle:
Post by: Gobble on October 14, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
I used to tape the ballistics chart on my gun so I knew EXACTLY how much drop my gun had at any given distance and with how much wind it shifted. Not that I would take a 500 yrd shot but you never know when the Buck/Bull of a lifetime may pop out and you have one opportunity to put it down. Now I just keep a laminated copy in my pack. I have shot coyotes out past 400+ and brought them down with one shot so I'm coinfident in my weapon and my ability but this is not for everyone.
Post by: rudedawg1085 on October 14, 2009, 10:55:40 AM
Post by: youngchristof on October 14, 2009, 11:01:38 AM
Post by: colockumelk on October 14, 2009, 11:04:25 AM
I dang near emptied a 20 round mini 14 clip one time. Sucker started out at a trot at about 300 yards, when I quit shooting he was at about 50mph at 600 yards. 4X scope, not meant for shooting that far but it was fun. I was watching snow fly all around him as he darted and weaved. It had to have been about 15-18 rounds. I cant believe I didnt hit em.
......Coyote that is. :chuckle:
That is hands down the best training and practise for deer and elk hunting marskmenship. Give you the adrenaline rush of the hunt and also gives you realistic hunting situations. Plus if you can hit a coyote at 400yds an elk is no problem.
Post by: Caseyd on October 14, 2009, 11:16:40 AM
One is plenty.. hell I only put three in my rifle anyway.
On a side not Ive been out at Kenmore this week and its a pretty sad deal how awful your average shooter is....if I had a dollar for ever time I have herd "thats good enough to hit a deer" Id be a rich man. :(
You there on Monday? I came through about 4.
I was one of those "it's good enough to hit a dear" but I put a 4 shot group right on target
Post by: Alchase on October 14, 2009, 11:55:05 AM
So next time on tv when you see a cop or soldier firing rapid fire at a guy 20yds away and he misses every time don't be like me and say "I could do better" because you wouldn't be able to do better. Unless you've been in multiple gun fights.
Suppression fire, lol
In a lot of the shootout videos shown on TV you can actually see the fight or flight reflex in work. Many times do you see someone shooting while running away, then moving around erratically while trying to reacquire the site picture.
You can also see someone who has had CQC training when they are firing in a controlled manner never loosing the site picture and advancing tactically.
As colockumelk stated, the first time in actual combat is an eye opener and you better have had the right training and muscle memory to act instinctively.
First time combat confusion "Yo Mac, what the heck is that noise?" "Get your a$$ down you idiot those are bullets!"
I kid you not, lol
Post by: KimberRich on October 14, 2009, 12:21:41 PM
It was on eof the nicest WT I've ever seen in the woods. 80 yards broadside walking... Missed. It takes of down in the timber and stops at about 160 yards quartering away.. Miss. :bash:
Post by: mossback91 on October 14, 2009, 12:23:33 PM
I've missed on a few single shots and missed a damn nice buck with 2 shots. Can't explain it.. I had actually forgotten about it until I read this thread and that was a good thing!!!
It was on eof the nicest WT I've ever seen in the woods. 80 yards broadside walking... Missed. It takes of down in the timber and stops at about 160 yards quartering away.. Miss. :bash:
happen to me last year!! :chuckle: trophy buck at 70 yards double miss!!!!! >:(
Post by: colockumelk on October 14, 2009, 02:41:23 PM
So next time on tv when you see a cop or soldier firing rapid fire at a guy 20yds away and he misses every time don't be like me and say "I could do better" because you wouldn't be able to do better. Unless you've been in multiple gun fights.
First time combat confusion "Yo Mac, what the heck is that noise?" "Get your a$$ down you idiot those are bullets!"
I kid you not, lol
LOL that is so true. On the road to Baghdad we got into a fire fight and I honestly don't remember firing that first magazine. All I know is it would not fired. I even started right into SPORTS before I realized it wasn't firing because my magazine was dry.
Even after a bunch of firefights sometimes I'd have to calm myself down and remember to fire in controlled pairs. There are so many things that happen to the body. Some guys lose control of their bowels (a healthy dump before a patrol prevents this) many can't hear the loud explosions (known as auditory exclusion) and some see things for a minute in slow motion. Some forget things and black out. ie not recalling shooting my entire magazine. Although I may have experienced auditory exclusion and not heard my rounds go off. :dunno: This is why on the range you gun is super loud but when you fire at a deer or elk you don't hear your shot. It's because of auditory exclusion.
Either way, when you get buck fever and miss an easy shot it's because you get a monster adrenaline rush (fight or flight) and lose your fine motor skills. It's not because you are a horrible shot. Like I said good combat marskman are not necesarrily awsome shots at the range. And awsome shots on the range are not necesarrily good combat marksman.
When the moment of truth comes in the field combat/hunting being able to shoot a 1.5" group at the range means nothing. Being able to control your emotions and heart rate does.
Post by: elkaholic123 on October 14, 2009, 04:39:20 PM
going to keep shooting until it dropped or ran out of sight!It went less than 30 yards!
Jerry
Post by: PolarBear on October 14, 2009, 04:53:54 PM
Post by: alanger on October 14, 2009, 05:20:30 PM
finally it caught a stray bullet
Post by: KimberRich on October 15, 2009, 09:30:38 AM
I've missed on a few single shots and missed a damn nice buck with 2 shots. Can't explain it.. I had actually forgotten about it until I read this thread and that was a good thing!!!
It was on eof the nicest WT I've ever seen in the woods. 80 yards broadside walking... Missed. It takes of down in the timber and stops at about 160 yards quartering away.. Miss. :bash:
happen to me last year!! :chuckle: trophy buck at 70 yards double miss!!!!! >:(
Glad to hear I share my misery with others! I'll have nightmares of that buck for the rest of my life. Wide heavy horned 10 point. 140-150 class deer.
Post by: turkey buster on October 15, 2009, 11:22:43 AM