Post by: Ellensburg on October 31, 2009, 04:11:09 PM
manastash, umptanum, quilomen, colockum, nanuem, tanuem, teanaway.
I didn't go out today. Gimme some updates!
Post by: 1shot on October 31, 2009, 04:21:53 PM
Post by: WSU on October 31, 2009, 08:53:20 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 31, 2009, 08:59:47 PM
Post by: WSU on October 31, 2009, 09:12:34 PM
Post by: ribka on November 01, 2009, 06:26:14 AM
That really po's me re the behavior of hunters. I really wish if you are caught doing this stuff take away hunting privileges forever.
Encountering lots of tresspassing again up where I live. One guy sneaking in on my land with no orange on. Went up to him and he is crouched down hiding. I ask dude what are you doing? Said he did not know was private even though signs everywhere. :bash:
Post by: C-Money on November 01, 2009, 08:07:31 AM
Post by: Ellensburg on November 01, 2009, 02:32:42 PM
I was up clockum rd. looking around a little but didn't hunt. Talked to a gamie with a 6 point bull in the back of his rig. Turns out a guy with a branch bull tag shot the bull, then saw a bigger one, so he shot the bigger one. Gamie also had 5 or 6 racks in the back of his truck from out of season deer. He was driving like a mad man up the hill to get to other calls he. I did see 3 legal dead elk, one of which was still in velvet.
Wow, what a shame. Thanks for the good report. Just 1 more bull taken away from the herd illegally sucks. And whats up with all the bucks?? People think deer season is still open or whaT?
Post by: fishermanjoe on November 01, 2009, 03:37:29 PM
Post by: bankwalker on November 01, 2009, 07:58:26 PM
Just got back from Joe Watt, lots of cows, and does, my old man has an any bull tag, but has not seen anything with antlers. Saw a guy with a 5x6 right next to the road last Monday morning.
man he should have been with my buddies, they just stopped by with some pics of some very nice bulls they seen this weekend. they were camped in joe watt canyon.
Post by: fishermanjoe on November 01, 2009, 08:03:41 PM
Quote
man he should have been with my buddies, they just stopped by with some pics of some very nice bulls they seen this weekend. they were camped in joe watt canyon.
Where at in Joe Watt. He is going to be there until Sunday. He has never shot an elk before and is getting depressed. Any information will be greatly appreciated. :)
Post by: denali on November 02, 2009, 01:08:09 AM
we hunt low on teanum creek 4 miles up river from the cattle guard/ heart K ranch
not too change the subject but the deer hunting has become a joke in the area, we started hunting the same spot in "93 and the deer no# continue to decline, not just shooter bucks...deer period.
also WDFW stopped by camp and said that after elk season they are going too fall large trees into the creek to create better habitat for fish??
Post by: colockumelk on November 02, 2009, 06:52:25 AM
I was up clockum rd. looking around a little but didn't hunt. Talked to a gamie with a 6 point bull in the back of his rig. Turns out a guy with a branch bull tag shot the bull, then saw a bigger one, so he shot the bigger one. Gamie also had 5 or 6 racks in the back of his truck from out of season deer. He was driving like a mad man up the hill to get to other calls he. I did see 3 legal dead elk, one of which was still in velvet.
Unfortunately this is an everyday occurance up in the Colockum during modern season. It is horrible up there. Ethics you ask. UP there there are no Ethics it seems. I've seen some horrible things. Like I said if PETA were to go up there with a video camera it would be some really bad PR for hunting. Not saying everyone up there is like that but there are alot of bad unethical hunters up there. It seems like it's alot worse there than any other place I've been to.
Post by: stewcamp on November 05, 2009, 08:34:08 AM
Post by: TEX-X on November 05, 2009, 08:39:50 AM
Post by: Broken Arrow on November 05, 2009, 08:42:37 AM
Post by: colockumelk on November 05, 2009, 08:44:12 AM
Saw alot of elk all week. No shooters. Only saw two spikes and they were not legal. The Colockum unit is getting wiped out. In the next few years there will be no good hunting left in the Naneum. 10 bulls were taken on top of Naneum canyon opening morning and one guy told me it was like a slaughterfest. Everybody shooting all at once together ???? Is this real hunting. My buddy and I were taken a drive mid-day up by the game reserve and saw guys actually walking the fence line on the reserve waiting for elk to come out of there. This is pathetic! Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?
:yeah:
Read this article I wrote awhile back. It pretty much sums up what needs to happen and why. http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/80 (http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/80)
If the current trend in the Colockum continues there will not be enough bulls by 2012 to breed. By 2013-14 there wont be any bulls left. And yeah I agree stewcamp it isn't hunting up there it is just slaughter.
Post by: WSU on November 05, 2009, 09:09:10 AM
Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?
Did you report the mule deer poaching? That would be a good start to doing something about it. When I was up there, I reported a possible illegal deer killing.
Post by: C-Money on November 05, 2009, 10:03:14 AM
Post by: colockumelk on November 05, 2009, 10:35:32 AM
Currently 75% of all yearling bulls are killed during the modern rifle season. A further 10% of yearling bulls die each year of natural causes, predation etc. So each year only 15% of your yearling bulls live. These 15% that survive past their first year now have to face poachers and Indians. Also bulls face a 5% natural mortality rate each year. (Again fighting, predators disease etc.)
So lets say 100 bulls are born. 100%
75 bulls are killed 75%. of original population
Plus 10% die of natural causes. 10% of original population.
You are now left with only 15 bulls/15% of the original population.
At 2 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 10% of original population.
At 3 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 5% of original population.
At 4 1/2 years old 5% die of natural causes. 0% of original population left.
This is of course pretending that poachers or Indians wont kill any of them.
While true spike will slow the bull populations decline it wont stop it. IMHO the only way to stop the decline is for permit only. Even with true spike too many of the yearling bulls are going to be taken each year. If the best case scenario is true and say 30% more live that still leaves you with a 55% first year mortality rate. In order to sustain a herd you need to have at least 50% survival rate each year. In order to grow the herd you want a good 60-70% survival rate. I just don't see "true spike" doing that for the herd.
I predict that in 2012 after the true spike has had three years to work you will see it go to permit only in the Colockum. They also need to reduce the cow population by 25%. Most of the cows don't get bred and are not contributing to the herds health.
Post by: WSU on November 05, 2009, 10:52:00 AM
Post by: colockumelk on November 05, 2009, 01:40:01 PM
The 5% is an average though. For bulls that average can be more because they live a rougher and tougher life than cows do because of the rut. Especially in the Colockum. Since the bull to cow ratio is so low, most of the cows don't get bred the first time around and thus come into estrus again in October, November, December. This is another reason the Calf to Cow ratio is so low. Because a calf bred in December wont be born until August. So the chances of surviving the winter is extremely low. Sort of a vicious cycle.
Post by: colockumelk on November 05, 2009, 01:50:13 PM
Is it really accurate that you have a 5% mortality rate every single year for bulls that make it through hunting season. Also, your numbers are over simplified. A 5% mortality rate does not mean that 5% of the original year class would be die, but 5% of the population. For example, say 15 are left. 5% die. That means that, on average, 0.75 die per year.
Good point so lets say 1 a year dies of natural causes. My original numbers don't account for poachers or Indians which are going to easily kill of an additional 2 or 3. So same thing after 4 years (5.5yrs old) the original population is all dead. Either way the Colockum herd is majorly screwed.
Post by: NWTFhunter on November 05, 2009, 04:30:20 PM
Post by: spur_ride on November 05, 2009, 04:35:29 PM
Post by: C-Money on November 05, 2009, 06:01:28 PM
Post by: stewcamp on November 05, 2009, 11:02:37 PM
Post by: fishm@n on November 06, 2009, 01:02:11 PM
Saw alot of elk all week. No shooters. Only saw two spikes and they were not legal. The Colockum unit is getting wiped out. In the next few years there will be no good hunting left in the Naneum. 10 bulls were taken on top of Naneum canyon opening morning and one guy told me it was like a slaughterfest. Everybody shooting all at once together ???? Is this real hunting. My buddy and I were taken a drive mid-day up by the game reserve and saw guys actually walking the fence line on the reserve waiting for elk to come out of there. This is pathetic! Something needs to be done and I hate saying this because we have hunted this area for 25+ years but they need to shut it down for a year or two and close off more roads at least during hunting season like the do over in the Olympics. These are just my opinions but it's ridiculous at how many people can't appreciate the meaning of hunting and scouting and elk camp! We also saw a 2 point mule deer poached. Maybe it's time for sportsman to re-think why they hunt in the first place. Anybody else draw the any buck tag in the Naneum?
We've gotten off topic, but this topic needs more discussion..
This type of crap is why I gave up rifle hunting in this state and went back to archery. I've yet to be successful here with a bow but the quality of the season and lack of hunters is MUCH better.
That said, how does the state wrangle in and eliminate the bad hunters we all see? Do we test everyone regardless of age and deny licenses to those who don't pass? What kind of test.. ethics, animal identification, can they read english? I think a lot of them are the urban knuckleheads over here on the wet side that have no business being in the field hunting. JMHO