Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 03, 2009, 10:24:16 PM
Any suggestions on where to start on building my own AR???
I know a little about these rifles. . .I've started reading all I can on them, but it's pretty much like overload. There are so many different companies making parts for them that I get that glaze-eyed look going on after spending any more than a 1/2 hour doing research.
I'm thinking the 15 platform vs. the 10 platform at this point in time because of the extra weight and price of a 10 vs. a 15. Plus there are so many new chamberings that are compatible with the 5.56 mag that are suitable for big game that it doesn't seem like I will be giving up any versatility by going with a 15 vs. a 10. . .in fact it seems like I will have more versatility with a 15 over a 10.
Be gentle. . .lets start off with lowers. . .I'm in Kitsap county. . .who can I get/order a lower from? and from what companies? I'm leaning toward DPMS at the moment. . .but I really like the POF stuff, but I think the DPMS is equal quality for less $$$. The POF just has a slightly different gas operating system. . .which may mean that it's less universal than a more traditional gas operating system. This is where I don't know enough to make an informed decision.
I know I want a Magpul PRS buttstock and MIAD grip. . .and I want a fairly versatile rifle. . .I don't want to over-specialize at the moment. . .something that's good for deer, mountain lion, and black bear at the moment. . .then wanting to move to elk later after I get more familiar with the state and the style of hunting here on the West Coast.
Thanks!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 03, 2009, 10:28:12 PM
Post by: Caseyd on November 03, 2009, 10:32:58 PM
Just looked at the november flyer for Cabelas. They have ARs on sale. Like $150 off select models. Bushmasters and S&W
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 03, 2009, 10:42:42 PM
With the 15 platform you can run (I'm sure I will get at least one chambering in here that shouldn't be so feel free to correct me, but for the most part this should be correct) .17 Rem, .204 Ruger, .223/5.56, 6.5mm Creedmore, 6.8mm Rem SPC, .30AR, .300 Whisper, and I've heard the .300 WSSM (Olympic Arms) and .358 WSSM (I'm not familiar with this round yet). . .so I would be thinking of starting with something around the realms of the 6.8mm Rem SPC, .30AR (equivalent of a .30-.30), or .300 WSSM.
The AR-10 platform runs the .308 based stuff: .308 Winchester, .243, .260, 7mm-08, .338 Federal . . .there are a lot more chamberings available for the 15 platform making it overall more versatile as long as the .300 WSSM and .358 WSSM are up to the task of an elk. . .Alaskan game.
Man you guys are on the ball posting!!!
Post by: actionshooter on November 03, 2009, 10:46:46 PM
If not your are of to a good start with the parts you are looking at. Start with a good trigger also, it will be cheaper in the long run.
Post by: actionshooter on November 03, 2009, 10:48:43 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 03, 2009, 10:52:08 PM
Post by: Ray on November 03, 2009, 10:53:12 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 03, 2009, 10:54:33 PM
Post by: Ray on November 03, 2009, 10:57:02 PM
The AR to me is just something neat to have. I was in the army and used them a lot but I am not fascinated with them. Of course much better than an AK..
Go with a fully built rifle. Bushmaster or Rock River.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 03, 2009, 10:59:54 PM
I liked the pic's of the recovered rounds too. . .especially the weights!!!
I'm thinking a Timney trigger. . .
. . .I'm so new to rifle hunting! coming from the mid-west all I could use growing up was a shotgun with slugs for deer and a .22 rimfire for rabbits, squirrels, etc.
So I have a lot to learn!
Post by: callonetta on November 04, 2009, 01:07:47 AM
My go to rifles are a Steyr 300wsm and a Ruger 25-06AI but I always wanted an AR platform so I built a RRA lower with a 7.62X39 upper by J&T.
Will I shoot a bear/elk with it?? NO, but I sure can do yotes and blacktails with the right ammo (I reload my own)
If you like trying new things, go for it.
Post by: demontang on November 04, 2009, 08:10:52 AM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 04, 2009, 08:14:45 AM
Post by: demontang on November 04, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
17 Remington
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.22 PPC
.222 Remington
.223 Remington
.223 WSSM
6mm PPC
.243 WSSM
.257 WSSM
6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
.300 Whisper
.30 Carbine
7.62x39
.338 Spectre
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.499 LW
.50 AE
.50 Beowulf
.22 LR
9x19
40 S&W
10mm Auto
45 ACP
9x23 Win
7.62x25 Tokarev
Wildcats or rounds for which factory ammo is not available:
Numerous .17's
.20 Vartag
.20 Vartag Turbo
.20 Tactical
5.45x39
.22 Lindahl Chucker
.240 Madame
6mm-222
6x45
6mm TCU
6mm WOA
6mm AR
.25/222 Copperhead
.257 TCU
.265 1*
7mm TCU
7mm Whisper
.30 HRT
.30 PPC
.30 PPC LONG
8mm HRT
.357 Auto
.38 Casull
.40 Super
.40 Extreme
.440 Cor-Bon
.475 Tremor
.500 Phantom
.502 Thunder Sabre
Post by: huntnphool on November 04, 2009, 12:21:49 PM
Post by: Straight Shooter on November 04, 2009, 03:49:11 PM
The timmey is a great trigger I just put one in my AR an love it. U can get lowers for under a hundered if you look around then get a parts kit, stock, and upper u want.+1 A huge improvement over the stock mil-spec trigger... and easy to install. Also, installed JP Enterprises Anti-Walk trigger/hammer pins. :tup:
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 04, 2009, 05:29:25 PM
I can get a lower for <$200 from DPMS. . .and since I don't want the buttstock, pistol grip, trigger, and trigger guard the completes come from I won't have to take a bunch of stuff off. . .I'll just put the new stuff in as I can afford it. . .I may get the lower this month!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 04, 2009, 05:38:16 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 04, 2009, 06:01:47 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 04, 2009, 07:12:19 PM
J&S sports in Olympia has stripped lowers on sale for $90 various brands and you can get the lower complete with butt stock and lower parts installed for $200. Any of the lowers machined by Mega are good quality comparible with the big name brands (better than some). I have assembled several of the Mega lowers and have been very happy.
Your best bet would be, get the complete lower and change out the trigger. You will have a really hard time buying a parts kit without a trigger.
Olympic would probably make a fluted 6.8 barrel for you. J&S does custom barrels also, I don't really know anything about them though, they just started doing that.
Take a look at www.ar15.com you will find an incredible amount of info there.
I'm no expert, but I have built about 20 ARs for myself and friends and have owned a bunch in all varities.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 09:41:24 AM
Post by: Mookie on November 05, 2009, 11:20:16 AM
I have been doing a lot of looking and studying about this, and the best place I have found for information is www.68forums.com
My reason for building a 6.8 AR pistol? ultra light weight deer gun. That or a 6.5 Grendel carbine.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 11:25:12 AM
Thanks for the link to the 6.8 forum!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 05, 2009, 11:30:20 AM
Post by: NataSS on November 05, 2009, 01:14:49 PM
If you are going to build an AR the firs thing you need to do is set your budget. You can end up with a rifle that you have sunk a small fortune into.
IF you are planning on on using this for hunting, regardless of of cal., accuracy is going to be of upmost concern.
I have built a number of AR's. Next week I am placing my order for the optics and little bells and whistles for my LMT build.
I have heard DPMS, Rock River, Oly and Bushmaster mentioned. I am not going to knock any of those but I will say they are "mid range" offerings as far as quality at best. Sorry if I have offended anyone but thats my opinion. And you have already mentioned POF, if you can afford that, you can afford anything the below manf. produce.
Your upper reciever is where you want to spend the bulk of your $. Take a look at:
www.noveskerifleworks.com
www.laruetactical.com (the stealth products)
www.bravocompanyusa.com
www.lewismachine.net
The Noveske rifles use the same material that is used in the M249 SAW barrels and thier barrels are a polygonal rifling like H&K uses. The "7.5 diplomat barrel in 6.8spc is shooting just over 1moa and the 5.56 is at 1moa. Keep in mind barrel legth when choosing your cal. the 6.8 does better on a "16 pipe and the 5.56 is best at about "20.
Larue's stealth products are amazing pieces of gear. the Larue OSR in .308 is getting SUB-MOA. With point accuracy out to 900yrds. You can get the same upper minus all the real hot rod stuff "somewhat" reasonably.
Bravo Co. is more of a combat tool but the longer barrels produce some serious accuracy.
LMT's monolithic rail platfrom is another piece of amazing gear. One very nice thing is, that it along with the Noveske VIS systems allow you to do fast barrel changes. 2 bolts hold it in place. You can have multiple barrels and swap what you want out for the desired job.
With all of these co.'s the important things are included in the cost of the rifle and not "options". Chrome lined barrel, staked gas keys, shot peened bolts, etc etc etc. Are included in the price where with other manf., they want you to cough up extra cash to make thier rifle "comparable". The rock river, oly, bushey etc are good "entry" rifles for the new enthusiast. they however, wont compete with the quality of these above mentioned places.
Now Oly is making some serious wild cat stuff. A good friend of mine is using one of thier 25wssm's and its a real shooter. However, something like that requires ALOT of specialty gear just to operate the rifle. And ammo is not near readily available as other cal.'s. now if you havea full reloading set up, that isnt so much of a worry.
I took my LMT out for its first zero on monday with Magpul MBUS (irons). The very first 3 rounds out of it could have been covered with a dime with poop ammo. I have yet to ever have a RR,oly or dpms do that.
Once you have decided on a good upper, you can save alot of money on lowers. A lower, is a lower, is a lower. Some are produced to better tollerances and some are prettier than others but they are essentially the same. I usually run a MEGA Machine lower. I have found that for the price the quality is very good. I have never had mag sticking issues or or alignment problems when installing trigger groups.
If you want to see a work of art of a lower, look at the Larue stealth billet lowers. Only downside to those is that the only way to get one is to buy a complete upper.
After making those 2 choices, the sky is pretty much the limit as far as options. Like the old saying goes "The M4 SOPMOD, its like barbie for men".
Post by: thinkingman on November 05, 2009, 02:00:24 PM
The RRA two-stage trigger is considered the one to have-other than Giselle.
The guys that know what are more likely to drop names like White Oak armory.
For precision hunting, buy a decent lower and spend the $ on the upper.
All the accuracy is going to come from the barrel and the trigger....as long as you're feeding it decent ammo.
Don't get wrappped up in the staked-this and the shotpeened-that.
I would focus on the 6.8 and get the best barrel I could.
Or what I reaallly want is a 6x45....
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 02:56:58 PM
Good to know that I don't need to get spendy on the lower, but that I should on the upper. . .something I wouldn't have known.
Thanks!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 02:59:23 PM
I could swing that no problem. . .
. . .the thing with this is that I'm prepared to spend a bit on this rifle, just not all at once. . .so a couple hundred here and there and I can build the rifle as I can afford it. . .still I should have one ready to go by next deer season, I hope!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 03:09:44 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 05, 2009, 06:09:06 PM
:twocents:
If you are going to build an AR the firs thing you need to do is set your budget. You can end up with a rifle that you have sunk a small fortune into.
IF you are planning on on using this for hunting, regardless of of cal., accuracy is going to be of upmost concern.
I have built a number of AR's. Next week I am placing my order for the optics and little bells and whistles for my LMT build.
I have heard DPMS, Rock River, Oly and Bushmaster mentioned. I am not going to knock any of those but I will say they are "mid range" offerings as far as quality at best. Sorry if I have offended anyone but thats my opinion. And you have already mentioned POF, if you can afford that, you can afford anything the below manf. produce.
Your upper reciever is where you want to spend the bulk of your $. Take a look at:
www.noveskerifleworks.com
www.laruetactical.com (the stealth products)
www.bravocompanyusa.com
www.lewismachine.net
The Noveske rifles use the same material that is used in the M249 SAW barrels and thier barrels are a polygonal rifling like H&K uses. The "7.5 diplomat barrel in 6.8spc is shooting just over 1moa and the 5.56 is at 1moa. Keep in mind barrel legth when choosing your cal. the 6.8 does better on a "16 pipe and the 5.56 is best at about "20.
Larue's stealth products are amazing pieces of gear. the Larue OSR in .308 is getting SUB-MOA. With point accuracy out to 900yrds. You can get the same upper minus all the real hot rod stuff "somewhat" reasonably.
Bravo Co. is more of a combat tool but the longer barrels produce some serious accuracy.
LMT's monolithic rail platfrom is another piece of amazing gear. One very nice thing is, that it along with the Noveske VIS systems allow you to do fast barrel changes. 2 bolts hold it in place. You can have multiple barrels and swap what you want out for the desired job.
With all of these co.'s the important things are included in the cost of the rifle and not "options". Chrome lined barrel, staked gas keys, shot peened bolts, etc etc etc. Are included in the price where with other manf., they want you to cough up extra cash to make thier rifle "comparable". The rock river, oly, bushey etc are good "entry" rifles for the new enthusiast. they however, wont compete with the quality of these above mentioned places.
Now Oly is making some serious wild cat stuff. A good friend of mine is using one of thier 25wssm's and its a real shooter. However, something like that requires ALOT of specialty gear just to operate the rifle. And ammo is not near readily available as other cal.'s. now if you havea full reloading set up, that isnt so much of a worry.
I took my LMT out for its first zero on monday with Magpul MBUS (irons). The very first 3 rounds out of it could have been covered with a dime with poop ammo. I have yet to ever have a RR,oly or dpms do that.
Once you have decided on a good upper, you can save alot of money on lowers. A lower, is a lower, is a lower. Some are produced to better tollerances and some are prettier than others but they are essentially the same. I usually run a MEGA Machine lower. I have found that for the price the quality is very good. I have never had mag sticking issues or or alignment problems when installing trigger groups.
If you want to see a work of art of a lower, look at the Larue stealth billet lowers. Only downside to those is that the only way to get one is to buy a complete upper.
After making those 2 choices, the sky is pretty much the limit as far as options. Like the old saying goes "The M4 SOPMOD, its like barbie for men".
I agree with this post, I even have a couple of the brands mentioned here living in my lock-up. But IMO, these are way over-kill for most guys, unless you are using them in your line of work, or in my case, a hobby that got out of hand. The added cost of these is unnecessary. Rock River builds a hell of a rifle for the money, as do many others.
Post by: NataSS on November 05, 2009, 06:22:17 PM
you'll see alot more Rock River parts at Camp Perry than the names listed above.
The RRA two-stage trigger is considered the one to have-other than Giselle.
And you wont see those Camp Perry rifles out in the field hunting. The above named rifles are made to be in the field.
I will agree that the RRA 2 stage is the best trigger for the average joe. A timminey or a giselle should be reserved only for the most serious of match rifles.
Post by: Mookie on November 05, 2009, 08:00:01 PM
I looked at the 6.5 Grendel also, but since it's based on the .308 would require the extra weight and cost of an AR-10 platform instead of an AR15 platform which is why I settled on the 6.8mm chambering.http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel.htm
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 10:01:58 PM
I have briefly handled a friends two AR's that were fully decked out with optics, lights, rails, you know. . .basically civilian version of a spec-ops rifle (he's military and they are his personal AR's) and they were quite a bit heavier with all the add-ons. . .the heavy barrel Oly was a LOT lighter than my .22-250 heavy barrel. That's pretty much sold me on the AR as a deer and brush gun. . .it seemed like it would handle really well.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 05, 2009, 10:14:09 PM
I looked at the 6.5 Grendel also, but since it's based on the .308 would require the extra weight and cost of an AR-10 platform instead of an AR15 platform which is why I settled on the 6.8mm chambering.
Thanks for the link to the 6.8 forum!
Hey, my bad. . .I think I got the 6.5 Grendel confused with the 6.5-284 and thought the Grendel required an AR10 platform.
It's seems to be a pretty capable round and very intriguing. . .I'll have to see about availability of both the 6.8 and 6.5 locally. . .I'll end up going with whichever one I can get locally as they seem pretty comparable to each other in what little comparing of the two that I have done.
Thanks again!
Post by: Mookie on November 06, 2009, 12:06:25 AM
One of these days I plan on making one, but, then I will sit down to do and watch reruns of Seinfeld instead
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 06, 2009, 08:08:32 AM
Post by: Fishhunt223 on November 07, 2009, 08:01:15 PM
As far as calibers go, the ones you mentioned are good choices but if I were to build a big game upper, I would wait to see what the .300 ossm that olympic arms is going to start producing is like. It sounds awesome from the information that I have seen.
Post by: demontang on November 08, 2009, 08:09:35 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 09, 2009, 09:57:27 AM
. . .I'll have to do some more reading and ballistics checking though. I have a friend with a b/a .300WSSM and he hasn't had any complaints, it's his elk gun. He's gonna be getting something bigger but only because he wants to go after so brown bear in AK and is thinking a .338 or larger.
Post by: Fishhunt223 on November 13, 2009, 06:29:34 PM
I'm not entirely sure about the WSSM's. . .it's really cool that you can use them in an AR magazine and it's good to hear that you didn't experience any problems, but I've been doing a lot of reading in preparing for this build and it seems because of the short fat cases (especially if a rebated rim is involved) that there is a pretty big chance of a jam or misfeed. . .not something that I want to have to worry about. . .
. . .I'll have to do some more reading and ballistics checking though. I have a friend with a b/a .300WSSM and he hasn't had any complaints, it's his elk gun. He's gonna be getting something bigger but only because he wants to go after so brown bear in AK and is thinking a .338 or larger.
Can you give me some more info on the feed problems? I havent heard anything about that.
I know this new round can achieve velocities of over 3000fps with a 150 gr bullet and just under 3000fps with a 180 gr bullet. Olympic arms also guarantees 1moa accuracy, which could be better if these barrels are the same quality as thier others.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 13, 2009, 10:44:23 PM
. . .I can't say how common they are. . .I will just repeat what has been reported and it makes sense based on the the fat case/rebated rim construction of the rims.
No time now. . .but I'll try to post tomorrow after my bear/coyote/crow hunting session.
Post by: demontang on November 16, 2009, 03:28:46 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 16, 2009, 05:25:56 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 16, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
I know POF. . .and Stag has one now. I have heard that Colt has a piston version coming out in '10, but I'm not sure what other companies offer a piston action vs. a direct impingement action.
Thanks!
Post by: Craig on November 16, 2009, 06:24:48 PM
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Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 16, 2009, 06:47:21 PM
i.e. you can put either upper on any lower. . .the only other thing to change would be the gas block and line differences???
I agree the billets are a LOT more expensive. . .but I know that I would always want one.
Is that a 9mm conversion or a .22LR? I see that skinny mag sticking out the bottom.
Post by: scoyoc5 on November 16, 2009, 06:50:26 PM
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Post by: Craig on November 16, 2009, 07:03:49 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 16, 2009, 07:13:07 PM
Post by: FALFire on November 18, 2009, 04:59:38 PM
The downside to the WSSM line is available ammo, if you reload not so much. Bullet selection is of course greatest in the 243 and 25 calibers. The 30 caliber not so much as the longer the bullet the more powder capacity you take away. The 30 WSSM was originally setup to use 125-130 grain bullets so you do the math.
Nothing wrong with the 6.8, it will certainly do the job on deer, bear and elk. I use either of my two 6.8's most exclusivley for coyote hunting these days and I can still select from the 300 Fireball, 6x45 or 308's that I have. As stated earlier, the barrel and the trigger are the most important pieces of the puzzle, the rest of the stuff just has to make the weapon function.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 18, 2009, 05:20:18 PM
I got the info on the feeding problems with some of the WSSM's from the Rockchucks and 6mmBR websites. . .it could be for bolt guns only, but I don't know that, the article doesn't specify and it's something that I wanted to double check on before I spent money on a chambering that would give me nothing but headaches. . .I would have thought (maybe incorrectly) that if a bolt gun has a problem feeding, then a semi would also have a feeding problem.
I have heard that some of the WSSM's eat the throat of a barrel out also, but that's for BR shooters who go measure barrel performance and shoot thousands of rounds a year out of one gun.
For what I want the WSSM's may just be overkill. . .you say you use the 6.8 for bear, deer, and elk and exclusively on 'yotes so that's exactly what I want.
Post by: FALFire on November 18, 2009, 07:47:32 PM
Pay special attention to barrel manufacture, I would recommend http://ar15performance.com/ You will get a very high quality barrel and the latest upgrades to chamber specs from Harrison. You will need to purchase 6.8 mags, I use C Products mags and so far they seem to work well.
One more comment just to stir the pot and help you not be able to make up your mind. :bash: :bash:
If you have not had a chance to fondle a Remington R25 then you really owe it to yourself to take a peek. I would steer you towards the 20" barreled 243 Win. model. They have a lightweight fluted barrel and you really would be amazed just how light and well balanced these things are. Most all of the complaints of too much weight come from the famous AR10 heavy barreled models, well Remington has addressed that issue and had DPMS build it using a very lightweight barrel. From all of the reports I have read, they are very accurate and you will never have an issue with finding ammo anyplace you ever happen to be. I have two DPMS 308's, one is a 16" AP4 carbine and it is amazingly accurate. I killed two coyotes one day at over 400 yards using Hornady 110 grain bullets, both were one shot one kill using the carbine and by the way, it's no heavier than the 6.8's I have. Trust me, they are certainly worth the time to look at.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-25.asp
I have never had a difficult time finding 243Win brass, it's everywhere and the 6mm bullet selection is far superior to the 6.8 277" bullets.
Good luck
Gary
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 18, 2009, 08:54:36 PM
That's a bunch of great info. . .reloading is one of the next things that I want to get into.
I grew up in Southern Illinois so all we were allowed to hunt with were shotguns. . .now that I'm on the West Coast and away from Cali I could get back into hunting. . .and now that I'm somewhere you can use centerfire rifles reloading seems very interesting. . .it just wasn't worth the time and effort back then.
Thanks again!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 20, 2009, 09:57:48 PM
I have some time to sort that issue out. . .first I have to decide on the lower. . .I think the Stealth billet lower is sounding pretty good. . .billet is better than forged, and as a machinist it would always bother me knowing that my lower could be better. . .I can always get other uppers and barrels, but who knows what's going on with the gun laws and I should get the best lower I can while I can. . .so definitely a billet, and I think the LaRue lower is the way to go. . .right now I'm leaning toward a Noveske barrel and matching the upper to the barrel is probably the way to go so that will probably be a Noveske as well. . .
Definitely a MagPul PRS stock and a MagPul MIAD pistol grip, Troy front & rear BUIS, still up in the air on the rail system, but I'm leaning toward a 6x Trijicon ACOG scope for the optics. . .will be able to get anti-reflective scope covers and night optic add-on's for predator and hog-hunting (we can dream can't we. . .) fairly easily.
Not sure what that leaves at the moment either than sling, magazine, and ultimately figuring out the whole gas impengement vs. gas piston operation. I still need to figure out who offers what and what is interchangeable thoug. . .honestly this rifle is probably gonna see more use than any othe firearm in the safe once I get it going, I can probably see the other stuff collecting dust once it's built, has optics, and sighted in. . .either the 6.8 or 6.5 seem to be great all around chamberings for the game available in WA and neither underpowered or overkill for anything. . .the more time you spend behind the trigger of a single gun the better you are at shooting it. . .this could be a great all-around rifle for everythign in the lower 48!!!
Chime in. . .6.8 vs. 6.5. . .and let me know what you think about any of my other decisions!!!
Thanks!!!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 20, 2009, 10:12:59 PM
. . .I think this one woudl come down to ammunition availability. . .i"m not set-up for reloading at the moment (althoug I plan to be shortly) so. . .which round is more commercially available???
Thanks!
Post by: actionshooter on November 21, 2009, 07:09:37 AM
OK. . .I just finished reading the article about the 6.5 vs. the 6.8 and they are basically equivalent with the 6.5 have a slight advantage downrange (according to the article. . .which I would tend to believe based on the pictures of the bullet itself. . .it would appear that the 6.5 Grendel would have a better BC than the 6.8, at the sacrifice of powder capacity). . .
. . .I think this one woudl come down to ammunition availability. . .i"m not set-up for reloading at the moment (althoug I plan to be shortly) so. . .which round is more commercially available???
Thanks!
The 6.8, I have never seen the Grendel ammo for sale
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 21, 2009, 09:58:08 AM
Helped me make some more decisions as well. . .
. . .gonna go with a LaRue Stealth billet upper and lower (have to buy the upper first which is not the way I wanted to go, but the only way to get a billet lower is to buy the upper first or at the same time as the lower) then I'll get send the upper to AR15 Performance to have one of their 16" or 18" 6.8 barrels with a YHM 9" diamond rail system installed on it(according to their website they no longer sell just barrels due to headspacing problems so I'm assuming they will install a barrel on an upper) it was between veske and them, but then I saw that the Noveske barrel uses the SPC I chamber instead of the SPC II chamber so that settled that. Going with a MagPul PRS buttstock, MagPul MIAD pistol grip, MagPul larger trigger guard, Troy folding BUIS front & rear and a 6x Trijicon ACOG for optics.
Have to decide on a trigger, but that's about it unless I'm missing something. . .should be a pretty sweet rifle.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 21, 2009, 10:00:30 AM
Had to correct that really quick. .
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 21, 2009, 11:12:06 AM
Yippee. . .time to buy the first part, LaRue Stealth billet upper. . .maybe for Christmas I'll get the Stealth billet lower. . .have to find an FFL that I can ship to first though. I'm not exactly sure how that works???
Post by: atomicjoe23 on November 21, 2009, 09:31:41 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 14, 2009, 08:19:33 PM
. . .unfortunately the only way that LaRue will sell a billet lower to anyone who doesn't own a "complete" upper. . .meaning you have to spend close to $2K with them first. . .is to pay them double the regular retail of the lower. . .so they want $500 for a lower. . .sorry no dice in my book. That's insulting to expect a potential customer to pay double the advertised price for a part just because they think that some people will. . .those people that will pay double are also the people that will pay more than MSRP for a car. . .I don't car to joint that crowd. I let them know I would be taking my business and money elsewhere.
I will be getting a Mega Machine billet upper and lower set for less than what the LaRue parts would have cost me and they are also made here in WA, I am much happier with that than I would have been with LaRue.
Post by: CastleRocker on December 14, 2009, 09:26:51 PM
One word of advice; get the best trigger you can almost afford. I'm still looking for a trigger that makes me happy. I'm looking at the one Jerry Miculek designed....but wow, they want a lot of $$$ for them!
Be careful of the "overload" you mentioned. If left unchecked, it will become an addiction. I started down the AR road about a year ago, now I have two lowers with four uppers. They go from 204 Ruger to 25 WSSM. I don't think it's my fault. I keep telling my wife that they keep breeding in the safe!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 14, 2009, 10:35:36 PM
. . .the local retailer is gonna be getting back to me on when he will be getting the new-style Mega billet uppers, right now he has the old style and if they are what I think they are I might want one of them anyway. . .especially if there is a price break when the "new" design shows up (basically Mega added their logo to the upper, I believe). . .
Post by: Craig on December 14, 2009, 10:48:56 PM
http://www.rainierarms.com
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 14, 2009, 11:19:05 PM
. . .I'll have to check him out. . .I had contacted Carrico'z Armory initially because they are in Lacey which is decently close to me. . .Olympia is about a 3 hr. drive away. . .kinda far. . .
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 14, 2009, 11:23:11 PM
Thanks again!
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 14, 2009, 11:25:32 PM
What about the option for with and without a side charging handle?
I still have to learn a few things about this platform.
Post by: Jburke on December 15, 2009, 02:08:16 AM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 15, 2009, 06:22:53 AM
I was gonna start collecting the main parts and then grab the book in a week or two once I am a little closer to ready to actual assembly time.
Post by: actionshooter on December 15, 2009, 01:16:24 PM
. . .I'll have to check him out. . .I had contacted Carrico'z Armory initially because they are in Lacey which is decently close to me. . .Olympia is about a 3 hr. drive away. . .kinda far. . .
:dunno: Lacey and Olympia are pretty much the same town. Clinton over at Carrico'z is a great guy.
These goods have a lot of stuff also http://www.jsgunparts.com/store/
Post by: atomicjoe23 on December 15, 2009, 01:40:12 PM
Post by: Fishhunt223 on January 02, 2010, 08:50:51 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on January 17, 2010, 10:41:08 PM
. . .take pic's and post tomorrow. . .
. . .VERY nice. . .fit very well, there is NO slop at all in the fit of these two pieces. I'll be ordering my lower parts kit next week and then the barrel/bolt assembly from AR15 Performance in 6.8 Rem. SPC hopefully at the beginning of Feb. Then the rear stock. . .
. . .I still have to decide on what front rail system I'm going to use and what trigger I'm gonna upgrade to as well though.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 09, 2010, 11:24:56 PM
Now I have to save some more cash to grab a MagPul PRS stock, a railed foream and low profile gas block, muzzle device, lower parts, and a scope and I'll be set!!!
Post by: Shootmoore on February 09, 2010, 11:56:29 PM
I just ordered my barrel/bolt/carrier assembly from AR15 Performance; it's a 16" PacNor stainless steel barrel with 12x3 button rifling and ARP's 6.8x43 chamber (have been shooting under 1" in 16" Recon barrels. . .so my PacNor should be able to beat that), a matching headspaced ARP 9810 SuperBolt and carrier assembly, abnd I also got the 6.8 etched ejection port door.
Now I have to save some more cash to grab a MagPul PRS stock, a railed foream and low profile gas block, muzzle device, lower parts, and a scope and I'll be set!!!
Very nice! I am in the process of rebuilding an old CAR-15. You are much farther ahead of the game than I am. Just when I think I have found the item I want, I find something else that I might like better. :bash:
Shootmoore
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 10, 2010, 09:50:07 AM
I've decided on the lower parts group, and I know ultimately what trigger I will be upgrading to, I also know what muzzle device and stock that I want. . .but I'm still struggling to decide on the railed forearm and gas block (although I have narrowed it down to either YHM or PRI) and the scope.
Post by: Shootmoore on February 10, 2010, 10:05:54 AM
Oh tell me about it. . .I'm the exact same way.
I've decided on the lower parts group, and I know ultimately what trigger I will be upgrading to, I also know what muzzle device and stock that I want. . .but I'm still struggling to decide on the railed forearm and gas block (although I have narrowed it down to either YHM or PRI) and the scope.
Nice, I think my problem is I keep waffling on the intended use for the weapon. While I would like to use it for yote hunting, most of my use of the AR platform has been for tactical use. I am trying to find a happy medium in the development of this rifle. One that I can slap a scope on and use with some success as a yote gun in the fall and winter, yet still keep it viable as a tactical weapon both for work and self defense purposes and or to use in 3 gun comp. If I was a rich man I would just build two, but the almighty dollar is the deciding factor in the end.
Shootmoore
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 10, 2010, 10:51:54 AM
Caliber selection or in all the goodies that would go on a tactical gun.
I have hear of 3-gun before and know that it is some type of competition, but I don't know much about it or the requirements for it.
I will be using my AR primarily for hunting, but it will still be up to the task of home defense. . .the 6.8 is perfect for me. . .accurate enough and low enough kick to use as a 'yote & bob gun, but a big enough caliber and with the 16" barrel and being selective with component selection still maneuverable and light enough to lug all day long hunting deer, elk, bear, and cougar.
I wouldn't be surprised if the AR (as long as we can stupid legislation away) will become the hunting gun of choice in the future.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 12, 2010, 10:09:03 PM
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 12, 2010, 10:25:14 PM
. . .I'm gonna get a Yankee Hill Machine Diamond railed forearm and a low profile gas block from YHM to match. . .I don't know what length forearm I'm gonna get yet. . .I have to wait and see where the gas block is drilled on the barrel (the barrel I'm getting was already drilled. . .someone ordered it from AR15 Performance and never paid for it. . .there loss, my gain!!!) but I want my forearm to cover the gas block. . .since this isn't a combat rifle I don't really need BUIS's (I don't I might reconsider that since I am gonna use this rifle for bear and cougar, but I can also mount the front sight on the picatinny rail vs. the gas block. . .I just don't like being able to see the gas block protrude from the forearm. . .the rifle looks much better without a visible gas block).
I would really like to get a PRI carbon fiber forearm with a full length top rail and then the mini rails at the 3, 6, and 9o'clock positions, but I'm not going to pay over $300 for my first forearm when I still have to buy a buttstock, compensator, scope and mount, and some misc. parts and tools to assemble this thing. . .ultimately this will cost me more than if I had bought a turn-key rifle, but I'm not complaining. . .I'm getting a billet upper/lower assembly that has absolutely no slop (never have a need for an Accu-Wedge) and a custom made Pac-Nor stainless steel barrel in the process. . .and it's not like it's gonna cost me a lot more. . .right now I'm still in only a ground with only a buttstock and lower parts to finish up. . .so I think I'll be under $1500 for the whole thing to be complete. . .not bad considering how much some these AR's can run. . .and I can't hunt everything in WA with this one gun. . .should end up being very light with a 16" barrel and if I end up getting a carbon fiber forearm that will help as well.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on February 16, 2010, 12:51:33 PM
Just ordered a magazine to go with my AR build. . .only ordered one at the moment, but I got it from PRI . . .a 25 round mag from PRI for $25!!! Not too shabby. . .the 25 round 6.8 mags are on sale right now from PRI if there are any other 6.8 AR shooters on here. . .that's about half what they normally cost!
I was just on the YHM website and their 25 round 6.8 mag's are regularly priced at $21 so I guess I didn't get that great of a deal on my PRI mag. . .oh well, live and learn. . .just orderred my DPMS lower parts kit today. . .now just need a compensator, forearm, buttstock, gas block, and scope. . .found a scope that's reduced in price yesterday and hopefully it will still be there when I have the money for it in about 2 weeks.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on March 05, 2010, 12:21:05 PM
. . .my 16" AR15 Performance barrel and I.T.S 9310 Super Alloy bolt/carrier assembly showed up today so I'm gonna take some pictures right now and post them up.
Waiting for AR15 Performance to get some more 6.8 etched ejection port doors back from the laser etcher and then I will be getting one of the etched ejection port doors and an 8-port MCD (muzzle control device) from them.
I'm also getting a 12" DMR railed handguard and titanium low profile gas block from MGSS (Mike's Gun Sales & Service. . .aka Jet Supressors). . .just read the MGSS DMR-10 review in the latest "Special Weapons for Military & Police" and that's exactly what I've been looking for in a handguard! A round handguard with rails in some areas and not others and a nice looking texture for the gripping area.
That leaves me with needing to get a buttstock and a scope (getting a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14).
I definitely don't think I'm gonna have to worry about weight with this rifle. . .the barrel doesn't weigh much at all. . .I don't know how much weight the DMR handguard is gonna add, but using the Ti gas block will help shed a little weight (I know it won't be a ton) so I'm gonna stick with the PRS stock. . .right now with the barrel installed it doesn't have enough heft to it. . .it feels like I"m holding a plastic toy so I think a little weight won't be a bad thing.
So here's where I'm at on what I'm using for this build (an * before the part means I already have it. . .a - means I still have to order it):
*Mega Machine matched billet hexagonal upper (M4 style w/forward assist)/lower w/Mega Machine charging handle
*DPMS lower parts kit
-AR15 Performance laser etched ejection port door (has a cool 6.8 skull logo on it)
*AR15 Performance 16.5" stainless steel barrel (Pac-Nor barrel) w/AR15 Performance 6.8x43 chamber and 12x3 button rifling
*AR15 Perfromance 9310 I.T.S. Superbolt w/AR15 Performance Extreme Duty bolt carrier assembly
-AR15 Performance 8-port tuneable muzzle control device
-MGSS DMR 12" railed handguard
-MGSS titanium low-profile gas block
-Yankee Hill Machine black gas tube
*PRI 25 round 6.8 magazine
-MagPul PRS II buttstock
-Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 scope
-either Troy or PRI flip-up BUIS (forearm mounted front sight) just in case I need to make a close-in shot on a predator coming in fast. . .
Pictures in just a bit. . .
Post by: atomicjoe23 on March 05, 2010, 04:34:29 PM
Sorry for the not so great pic's. . .I don't really have a good backdrop to put the parts against. . .I'll try to do better later when I have more time.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi416.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp247%2Fatomicjoe23%2FMega%2520Arms%252068%2520AR15%2FAR15004.jpg&hash=b1deddb3ece1c79f81f9280234cd7e4fed4a1d41)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi416.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp247%2Fatomicjoe23%2FMega%2520Arms%252068%2520AR15%2FAR15003.jpg&hash=87e815d24049e42c7bb88213dd1deddfee04abaf)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi416.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp247%2Fatomicjoe23%2FMega%2520Arms%252068%2520AR15%2FAR15001.jpg&hash=e01508a3b7fba6fc5c6842513ccfe31f18b0df00)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi416.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp247%2Fatomicjoe23%2FMega%2520Arms%252068%2520AR15%2FAR15002.jpg&hash=702d77cdf37a061177d22bab306a43c008f2deed)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi416.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp247%2Fatomicjoe23%2FMega%2520Arms%252068%2520AR15%2FAR15005.jpg&hash=90b5768d411da51ddbe43dfe5c32454e86a4f92f)
Post by: byrdman on March 05, 2010, 09:01:46 PM
ETA, I see PRI has 5, 10 and 15's available but boy they are sure proud of 'em.
Post by: atomicjoe23 on March 05, 2010, 09:07:47 PM
. . .Armalite also offers 6.8 mags, but at the same price as the PRI mag's.
I got my PRI mag for 1/2 price. . .they were running a sale, but I'll be getting some YHM mags next.
From a weight point of view, I'm sure you are right. . .and who needs 25 rounds available when you're out hunting!. . .Some 10 round mag's will probably be the ticket. . .just got the 25 round mag because it was the same price as the all the other mag's and figured it was a better bang for the buck. . .not to mention you never know when another stupid ban on high capacity magazines will come about.
Post by: byrdman on March 05, 2010, 10:06:56 PM
Another advantage that I've found is that with less rounds in a mag while plinking, I tend to shoot-up(waste) a lot less ammo.