Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 12:35:06 AM
First things first. hunted MF deer forever....first archery season, missed the early so I basically just started. Open to year end GMU availability + locations I'd hunted before left me with 1 spot. Happened to be my old stoppin grounds growin up, but I hadn't hunted it for 10 years or so. Long story short....day 5(today), same general area, but I decided to walk a loop(4 miles) of old road that runs the perimeter+and then some' of the area I've spent most of my time in just to see what might have changed in the past 10 years etc....so half way through I bump into this rub line......
...and I'm talkin' like 1/8 of a mile, of what I found anyway, he's kicked the crap out of nearly every other available small tree he could find along this old road I was on. One in particular, the first one that caught my eye, on a grassed over old spur road about 20ft in, is a big vine maple. He got in that thing and just beat the snot out of it, snappin' off 1" diameter branches and bigger. First I thought no way must be an elk cuz there's a few bulls in the area, but the rubs were just too low and I could only make out deer tracks in the frosted grass. Now I've hunted muley's and this looks like a muley worked it over. Never seen a blackie do that much damage. Was skeptical so I checked it over close makin' sure this couldn't be somethin else mixed in, angry bear, porkie, house cat, hell I dunno. Conclusion is, gotta be all deer. 1 deer. Either he's a pig or one REALLY pissed off little forked horn :P
Things I found while inspecting the rub line:
- Old rubs, enough examples to say conservatively 3 years he's been controlling this chunk of ground. I noticed there is some consistency to each one, something I'd never paid much attention to before, do some deer get in the habit or have tendencies to beat on tree's in a certain way.
- He still active along the rub line, I found tracks that had removed the morning frost and shavings laying on the ground with no frost on them.....think he hit it in the daylight?
- What he's going in and out of is a no go zone for a hunter, no way to get in there, I mean I could but I'd need my .300 win mag not a 100 grain sharpened twig to punch through the crap; some older reprod with a lot of nasty growing in it.
- Across the road is thinned timber with some open skidder lanes. So I have lots of options for cover and plenty of visibility from the opposite side of his brush hole.
- Found a trail at the big rub that looks like he might push through when he goes doe huntin', I'd only been seeing does over in the thinned area.
- Terrains all lowland flat within reason ground, timber company land.
Besides the obvious, put a hole in 'em....now what in the hell am I gonna do? :o 18 Days left, 4 of which I can hunt +2 wildcards/vacation days available. I've never targeted "A" deer before. I'm use to glassin' cuts and blasting the first legal ya see.
I don't have a camera, I know right where I'd put it if I had one, could pick one up this week, but should I even bother? My concern is I don't know how much of me in the area it would take before the buck locks down. I was very cautious about keepin away from and not touching anything along the route he's running.
If I do go the camera route, what time of day is best to install/remove one, noon?
It's going to be a really long week at work...... :drool:
Post by: PA BEN on December 14, 2009, 06:04:40 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 14, 2009, 06:11:36 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 14, 2009, 06:37:50 AM
Post by: lokidog on December 14, 2009, 09:37:42 AM
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 03:17:59 PM
OH, the problems to have..... What a dilemma! :chuckle: Sounds like a good place for a treestand or a ground blind if no trees available. As mentioned, a little scent might work wonders.
Ya its painful.... :chuckle:
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 03:23:48 PM
Tree stand. If the trees are to small a ladder type with a seat on top. Ground blind, pop up type. Back in the day when I first started bow hunting I ran into the same problem, I cut shooting lanes down wind of the scraps and sat on a stool. My buck a w/t was coming in in the middle of the day, he was on his way to a scrape about another 10ft and he was mine. Will the wind kicked up from below him, he smelled the air ran into the brush below him and pushed a doe out and went after her. :bash:
I'm predicting similar frustrations. I cant do tree stand, have no shooting practice from one. There is a road bed between where he's travelling and where I am. So no need for shooting lanes. Like the ground blind idea, I'll try setting a couple up.
Kinda surprised he's still runnin' his rub route still. Must be a couple does in the area gettin hot still.
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 03:30:42 PM
Sounds like he is really happy and feeling pretty safe to use that area so much....I would get between it and his food. Watch the wind and just hang out there...tree stand sounds good, but I have never tried one...
Ya really, especially since it looks like he made a pass on it in the early light.
As for the food source, I got no clue. If he's browsing bushes n shrubs then he as plenty in that thick crap he's in.
Post by: grousetracker on December 14, 2009, 03:45:23 PM
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 04:32:58 PM
try rubbing a tree in his rubs and put a tarsel or forehead gland scent on the tree or trees,buck and doe scents might send him into a frenzy where he cruises that area continuosly looking for the intruder. try a brush blind and watch the wind. a buddy of mine did that and we got that buck 3 days later while he was working over an alder tree.
:chuckle: thats kinda evil, I like it. you just use the whitetail stuff or does someone actually make it for blackies now?
Post by: PA BEN on December 14, 2009, 05:33:52 PM
Post by: AKBowman on December 14, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
try rubbing a tree in his rubs and put a tarsel or forehead gland scent on the tree or trees,buck and doe scents might send him into a frenzy where he cruises that area continuosly looking for the intruder. try a brush blind and watch the wind. a buddy of mine did that and we got that buck 3 days later while he was working over an alder tree.
:chuckle: thats kinda evil, I like it. you just use the whitetail stuff or does someone actually make it for blackies now?
They make it for Blackies now. I would highly recommend a tree stand. If you can get in to it silently you will have your buck in a short time. I just bought a climber myself. Climbed up Saturday afternoon and killed a little button buck...(walking back to the car with my stand on my back of course :dunno:) You can PM me if you dont have a stand and want to use it for the rest of the season. It a pretty nice climber (Gorilla makes decent stuff).
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 07:23:47 PM
They make it for Blackies now. I would highly recommend a tree stand. If you can get in to it silently you will have your buck in a short time. I just bought a climber myself. Climbed up Saturday afternoon and killed a little button buck...(walking back to the car with my stand on my back of course :dunno:) You can PM me if you dont have a stand and want to use it for the rest of the season. It a pretty nice climber (Gorilla makes decent stuff).scents....what brand do you recommend, where can i find it? I see stuff on the google but lots of different names.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 14, 2009, 07:50:47 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 14, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?id=cat540014&navAction=jump&navCount=1&cmCat=MainCatcat21424&parentType=category&parentId=cat21424
Post by: highside74 on December 14, 2009, 08:34:20 PM
They make it for Blackies now. I would highly recommend a tree stand. If you can get in to it silently you will have your buck in a short time. I just bought a climber myself. Climbed up Saturday afternoon and killed a little button buck...(walking back to the car with my stand on my back of course :dunno:) You can PM me if you dont have a stand and want to use it for the rest of the season. It a pretty nice climber (Gorilla makes decent stuff).scents....what brand do you recommend, where can i find it? I see stuff on the google but lots of different names.
Haus, Stop buy Rainier Archery in Graham he has plenty on Blacktail urine. I believe he still has some dominant buck left. Thats what I would use. To late in the season for doe pee I think.
Post by: lemondog on December 14, 2009, 09:06:34 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 14, 2009, 09:19:24 PM
If he's still rubbin, he's got does in heat. If he's got does, he's not going to want an intruder.
-Steve
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 10:45:29 PM
Hell of an offer AKbowman. This place rocks.
I gave him a pm hug ;) :chuckle:
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 11:18:42 PM
Not too late for Doe pee! This is a stud buck and some does come in in December if they did not get bred and he knows it. Tree stand and scent set up correctly will nail him. O, ya thing I hate about blacktail.....you have to sit in the rain!! I have a nice tree stand set up you can use if you like just send a PM....
dang, why are ya'll so nice? 8)
thanks! ...ya'll just want the tenderloins huh? :chuckle:
no treestand, ya'll made it clear its the way to go, but I know my shooting ability, i just started slinging arrows so to speak and I told myself if I hunt with this much shooting experience I'm only shootin close and on level ground. My max pin is 30yards, pulled the others out of the way. I can hit consistent at 40yards but I figured -10 for hunting situation, adrenaline. Can't knock a guy for knowing his limitations.
30yards max from the ground, ya cold chance in hell I know I get it. 6'7" tryin' to draw back even.....lol. gonna be a real slow draw.....
Appreciate all the other advice about scents and such, I'll give them a shot. Just got Friday off from work so 3 straight days to hunt this thing. getting a cam too just be sure, if I don't see him I'll at least know what I'm missin' out on :drool:
This weeks gonna go by so slow :(
rain all week though thank god, sat-sun ground was so damn noisy, plus it was so clam out I could hear a lil tweety bird 40yards away in the bushes.
Post by: haus on December 14, 2009, 11:22:54 PM
I'd put a doe or buck decoy out on the edge of that thick stuff with a little doe scent and a natural ground blind in an elevated position that provides a shooting lane and stick his ass!
If he's still rubbin, he's got does in heat. If he's got does, he's not going to want an intruder.
-Steve
:lol4: ...just thinkin bout packin a decoy on foot a couple of miles, be so funny to see someone walkin down a road with one :chuckle:
good idea though, i've seen it used on whitetails. wonder what a blackie would think of one.
Post by: PA BEN on December 15, 2009, 04:52:53 AM
Post by: haus on December 15, 2009, 07:17:00 PM
Shooting from a tree is ez. At 15 to 25 yds w/a fast bow you will hit where you aim, maybe 1 to 2" high. I would stand on the roof of my house and shoot my target. You do have to aim a little low from a tree, and when a deer jumps the string they will squat. I've shot over there back from trees if they jump the string. :twocents:
Is a reflex grizzly at 30" draw a fast bow? Crono was in 260's fps with the practice tips, that low or high?
Post by: PA BEN on December 16, 2009, 05:38:10 AM
Post by: lokidog on December 16, 2009, 10:06:34 AM
Post by: PA BEN on December 16, 2009, 05:19:46 PM
Post by: lokidog on December 16, 2009, 08:30:14 PM
I would say you are off, you aim low because your arrow hits high from a tree ;)
Alright, lets try this exercise in visualization. Standing 20 yards from a deer at the same level, aim at the point of the elbow on the front leg. Where will your arrow go (if you can hit that spot)? It should pass through the top portion of the heart, right (or thereabouts)? Now, go 20 feet up in a tree. If you impact at the exact same point on the side of the deer, the arrow will pass through the middle to bottom of the heart because a line drawn from the same impact point down at an angle will pass through the deer lower than a line drawn from the impact point point level through the deer. This should not be too hard to see.
Now, if you are saying that your arrow will hit at a higher spot while shooting from 20 yards in a tree as 20 yards on the ground, I will call BS. As long as the horizontal distance is the same for both arrow flights, the impact point will be the same as long as the aim point is the same (because gravity effects the arrow for the same distance). If you are using your range finder to figure your distance to a target from a treestand, then a 20 yard laser distance will actually be less than 20 yard horizontal distance and, yes, your arrow will hit high.
Post by: PA BEN on December 17, 2009, 04:49:12 AM
Treestand Bear
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPicture028.jpg&hash=95e9095ad6c2be0d9b826ed502150a52b79d6503)
Treestand Buck
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT0992.jpg&hash=0d5a5b9cef45489c8a52a06743dc4e190ef5f19a)
Ground blind Doe, you can see the blind along the tree line.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT4602-1.jpg&hash=80cbbc8299297a83c98edce305cd3161b7c4608a)
Post by: rasbo on December 17, 2009, 05:04:48 AM
You can call BS all you want. It's a fact your arrow arches. At a down angle your arrow arches up, so you hit high. I've killed tons of deer out of a tree and spent hours shooting targets from elevated positions. My fast compound at 15 to 20 yds hits about 1" to 2" high from a tree, not much to make a difference but high all the same. A slower bow will hit higher. My advice to anyone shooting a bow is practice from all hunting situations. There's a range finder on the market that takes the angle out and give the yardage you aim to. BTW, when I place my stand in a tree I take practice shots w/judo points at all yardages I'll be shooting.you are right...my son has that rangefinder and it works good
Treestand Bear
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPicture028.jpg&hash=95e9095ad6c2be0d9b826ed502150a52b79d6503)
Treestand Buck
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT0992.jpg&hash=0d5a5b9cef45489c8a52a06743dc4e190ef5f19a)
Ground blind Doe, you can see the blind along the tree line.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT4602-1.jpg&hash=80cbbc8299297a83c98edce305cd3161b7c4608a)
Post by: lokidog on December 17, 2009, 09:28:54 AM
Here is a quote for you "The reason for this is that the trajectory arc is determined by the horizontal distance the arrow travels, not the overall distance." from http://www.wildextremes.tv/index.php?topic=886.0 Gravity effects the arrow the same amount for a given horizontal distance.
So, yes, if you use your rangefinder (non angle compensating type) from your stand that is 20 feet in the air and it says 20 yards, the impact point will be higher than it would be on your 20 yard target on level ground. But if you have placed range marks from the base of your tree, so that the horizontal distance is the same, it will hit the same place on the side of the animal.
Either way, the place you want the arrow to enter on the animal will be higher when shooting from a treestand because the arrow will come out the other side lower than the entry point. This aimpoint height difference will be more for higher stands and less for farther away shots. It's about entry angle of the arrow.
Post by: PA BEN on December 17, 2009, 05:20:45 PM
Post by: haus on December 22, 2009, 10:37:57 AM
Think I bit off more than I can chew, need more time to pattern him, he's pulled back his travel line from where I first located one edge of his territory and all the rest of his little hiding hole is reprod and alder, none of which will allow for setting up a stand unless I want to see how well the tree's could hold 250lb's + stand, think I'll pass on that :chuckle: Only option is to go in after him. bear spray in quick draw strapped to my forearm :chuckle: past experiences in the area, they never exactly ran away either, and now I got no 300mag in hand eshhh. part of the excitement I guess :o
Maybe I'll get lucky on christmas and end up with a trial cam, least i can see just how big this buck really is :drool:
I did find the primary feeding area near his territory, which out of the whole area seems to be doeville. the only cut around, bout 3yrs old. Figure I'll just park my arse on the edge of it, very least I can fill my tag with something.
btw thanks for the scent suggestions, they work well, just not on big daddy for some reason. I'd seen a few other rub lines during my mid day cruising and dropped some off on adjacent tree's, couple bucks responded by beating the snot out of nearest small sapling. no time to figure out when their movin' through those spots though :( gonna give it a whirl on the edge of the cut next weekend.
Really enjoying the archery hunting though, I hope I connect with something this season, requires such different approach, taking some time to adapt, especially on ground where moving to deer is damn near impossible in most cases.
For the archery guys....how small of an area do you focus your blacktail hunting on?
Post by: PA BEN on December 23, 2009, 04:24:16 AM
Post by: haus on December 23, 2009, 09:46:19 AM
You want him to stay? Apples and Cob. The does will come and eat and so will he. If you can't kill him, doe meat is better then tag soup. :drool::chuckle: funny ya mention it.
didn't even know ya could do such a thing in this state till few weeks ago when I read it on here, still called wdfw :P. we've tossed the idea around, last sunday mid-day threw out some Del's feed we had stored in the barn, horses looked at me like >:( wtf!! as i left with their candy. been workin since so i dunno if it got noticed yet. dropped it in a plan B spot not near pig.
Post by: haus on December 28, 2009, 01:15:23 PM
many days of hunting dark to dark :dunno: maybe for my first attempt at archery blacktail hunting trying to take on a post rut seasoned buck was not the best idea :bash:
learned a whole lot though. hope to get a cam someday so I can see how big this one really is :drool:
archery hunting though......it's freakin' fun I'm hooked 8)
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 28, 2009, 01:29:53 PM
Post by: haus on December 28, 2009, 05:17:38 PM
At least you had a good time!!! :tup: :archery_smiley: Maybe next year you'll get to fling an arrow!!!
boss just said I can have thursday off :rockin: :party1: :party1: :brew: :archery_smiley: and the weathers gonna be bout right, unlike this last weekend when I couldn't wiggle a toe without makin a *** load of noise. :o
9.5hrs *nerves* if its brown its down time :chuckle: