Post by: boneaddict on January 14, 2008, 12:32:06 PM
This is easy for me since I rarely hunt there, but here is an Idea for you. For the Entiat unit, a two point only season for 2008. (All user groups)
We all know that there is a growing concern that there are a bunch of two points in the Entiat. I am still a firm believer in the three point or better rule, just because I have seen a lot of good come from it. If we continue to hunt for quantity versus quality, we need to do something to try to improve both. Two genetic groups are being seen a lot in the Entiat or Chelan, big 2s and those with weak backs. We will continue to enhance this bad trend if we do not do something. There is so much pressure on the big bucks for all the other things I have discussed, we are trimming out a majority of the big ones, or the prime genetics. Sure, there are some big ones still, but let them have a year off. Get rid of the twos, or a bunch of them. Let the big ones breed for a year. It is obvious that the Entiat gets a majority of the trophy hunting pressure with permits and raffle tags etc.
Post by: Ironhead on January 14, 2008, 12:38:36 PM
Post by: Idabooner on January 14, 2008, 01:21:51 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 14, 2008, 02:29:32 PM
All Mule deer hunting is by permit only and is broken down as follows.
Region 1
Chelan, Okanogan, Douglas, Grant County
1st Season (archery) September 1-15 2000 Tags 4pt min
2nd Season (Rifle) October 1-7th 4000 tags 4pt min
3rd Season (Rifle) October 15-20th 2000 tags 4pt min
4th Season (Rifle) November 1-15th 200 Tags 4pt min
5th Season (Archery) November 25-December 10th 4pt or antler-less 1000 tags
Region 2
Kittitas, Yakima, Benton,Franklin Countys
1st Season (archery) September 1-15 1000Tags 4pt min
2nd Season (Rifle) October 1-7th 2000 tags 4pt min
3rd Season (Rifle) October 15-20th 1000 tags 4pt min
4th Season (Rifle) November 1-15th 40 Tags 4pt min
5th Season (Archery) November 25-December 10th 4pt or antlerless 400 tags
Region 3
Adams,Walla Walla, Whitman,Columbia, Garfield, Asotin County
1st Season (archery) September 1-15 2000Tags 4pt min
2nd Season (Rifle) October 1-7th 2000 tags 4pt min
3rd Season (Rifle) October 15-20th 1000 tags 4pt min
4th Season (Rifle) November 1-15th 150 Tags 4pt min
5th Season (Archery) November 25-December 10th 4pt or antlerless 400 tags
Region 4
Ferry, Pend oreille, Lincoln, Spokane
1st Season (archery) September 1-15 2000Tags 4pt min
2nd Season (Rifle) October 1-7th 2000 tags 4pt min
3rd Season (Rifle) October 15-20th 1000 tags 4pt min
4th Season (Rifle) November 1-15th 150 Tags 4pt min
5th Season (Archery) November 25-December 10th 4pt or antlerless 400 tags
In addition to the Regions there are areas that have addition restrictions for the 4th and 5th seasons They would be Methow valley(Chewuck, Perrygin, Gardner, Alta. , Entiat(Chiwawa, Entiat, Swakane), Desert.
Only 25% of the 4th and fifth season could be allocated for any of these areas to prevent over harvest.
I dont care what happens to the whitetails maybe any buck or some thing maybe 3pt or better.
There would be management deer permits for Disabled, youth and senior hunters could shoot 2pts in problem areas. and some special permits for modern.
Also there would be shoot on site orders for all whitetails West of the okanogan river and the Columbia River regardless of the time of year.
A deer application would cost 20 dollars 75% of that cost would be set aside by state statute to fund acquisition of mule deer wintering grounds and habitat restoration. You would have three choices on the app and unsuccessful applicants would earn a point for each year they did not draw. the points would square.
What do you think?
Post by: Slider on January 14, 2008, 03:06:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2008, 03:10:38 PM
Where would the muzzleloader seasons fit in? Or would there be none? I guess I'd have to sell my muzzleloaders? :dunno:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 14, 2008, 03:12:08 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on January 14, 2008, 03:19:43 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2008, 04:07:41 PM
Post by: Ironhead on January 14, 2008, 04:19:38 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 14, 2008, 04:54:35 PM
Some very minor adjustment's to the current seasons will bring big results. Chelan county deer herds are close to capacity so there is nothing wrong with the amount of deer. The Entiat unit is no longer a gimme on a late hunt for a quality buck. Easy fix here is to reduce the amount of late tags for both rifle and archery by 2/3's.
Our late archery general hunt for the Swakane is a joke. I don't have an answer there but permit only for that hunt would be nice.
I second what Duck said about the roads. Way too much pressure on the animals in that unit.
I think all of Chelan County would benefit from letting youth and senior hunters shoot any buck for a couple years.
-Lowedog
Post by: boneaddict on January 14, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Post by: LOVHUNTIN on January 14, 2008, 05:14:26 PM
Post by: rougheye on January 14, 2008, 05:19:10 PM
Post by: Ironhead on January 14, 2008, 05:33:22 PM
You aren't going to wipe out a generation by kiling the two points. I hate to tell you, before three point or better many got shot and we still have deer, not to mention there are spikes and samll threes still out there.
If I remember correctly we were not only killing 2 pts. back then, seems like it was any buck. So, while the young bucks were more often killed than the big migrators, we were spreading out the herd managment to more than one age group.
To me Quality (don't give me the "there are plenty of places to get a way you just have to use boot leather" line ) means more than only trophy critters, I like the solitude of hunting. I like going out knowing there are not going to be 20 guys on the ridge I want to hunt. This will NEVER happen in the Entiat unless the hunter days are cut way down."Permits will never happen in Washington state" That is what they said in Montana,Colorado,Oregon,and to NR's in Wyoming. Who has better hunting? I understand it won't be easy but something needs to be done. Threre are to many hunters and not enough land in Eastern Washington to have quality hunts unless, you hit the high country and even that is getting over crowded. JMO
Post by: Bigshooter on January 14, 2008, 06:05:11 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 14, 2008, 06:59:38 PM
Post by: jstamp on January 14, 2008, 07:18:19 PM
Post by: rougheye on January 14, 2008, 07:22:01 PM
Post by: Shannon on January 14, 2008, 07:32:26 PM
Shannon
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 14, 2008, 07:33:08 PM
If they opened all of the GMU's units that are open to late rife tags to archery to special permits I and many others would leave the entiat all together and hunt other units that are now closed. I think that would be a good first step in lifting the burden on the Entiat herd.
Archers are not the only problem there are to many modern late tags and the high hunt is taking its toll as well. In my opinion all user groups should be permanently cut back :dunno:
Post by: rougheye on January 14, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 14, 2008, 08:07:31 PM
Post by: lemondog on January 14, 2008, 08:37:58 PM
Post by: HuntinFool on January 14, 2008, 09:48:32 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on January 14, 2008, 10:18:25 PM
That being said, I've been pleasantly surprised a couple times to hear their argument for a seemingly bad decision, which makes a lot of sense after you hear the reasoning. E.g. why our draws are so much later than other states...a bunch of us jumped to the conclusion that they just didn't have their sheet together. But we later learned that they publish the hunts late because they'd rather have the winter kill data to make unit-specific decisions on tag numbers (I'll leave the Outdoor Central problems out of this for now). That makes sense. I guess I'm a glass half full guy until I hear the reasoning behind their decisions...of course, I reserve comment on the thought process...but I've been proven wrong before.
Post by: andrew_12gauge on January 14, 2008, 10:43:32 PM
Let the crucifixion begin.
Post by: boneaddict on January 14, 2008, 10:55:25 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 02:28:48 AM
Nice try Bone, that makes entirely too much sense :bash:
Go back to your normal job, you are obviously not F&W material :chuckle:
Love ya brother ;)
Post by: ICEMAN on January 15, 2008, 06:53:54 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 15, 2008, 08:03:52 AM
Lots of good thoughts here. The department has limited late tags in a number of units to maximize trophy potential (desert, pearrygin, etc.), but for whatever reason let the entiat go the last couple years. Would love to get their input on the thinking there...increased late tags, public access during winter? It certainly doesn't make sense from my perspective.
Here is why they have expanded the late tags note the 2nd most requested response. the Entiat is the only herd in the state that could have sustained the hunting seasons that the masses wanted. Now that the deer are gone it will be interesting to see how they adjust.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/surveys/2006-08hunting_season_survey.pdf
Post by: Ridgerunner on January 15, 2008, 08:35:57 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 08:41:20 AM
:o Iceman, your slipping :o
Post by: boneaddict on January 15, 2008, 09:12:47 AM
Post by: HighCountry10 on January 15, 2008, 10:35:23 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 15, 2008, 10:39:55 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 11:01:15 AM
Post by: Lowedog on January 15, 2008, 11:25:58 AM
I honesly think the current general seasons for rifle are good and the amount of late permits need to be decreased in the Entiat for both archery and rifle. A lot of our thoughts at the moment are being based on what we know of the 2007 seasons late tags. This was not a good season to draw a tag. Snows came late and the migratory deer just weren't there. A friend had the Swakane late tag and hunted hard for the first 12 days and went many days without even seeing a doe. He ended up shooting a small 4 point and heading to Idaho for whitetails.
Late archery on the other hand needs fixed. Especially with the multi tags now. Way too many people hunting in the Swakane. I like the idea of opening all the units up by permit only for late archery.
As far as 2 points go, like I said before, let the kids shoot em. Give out a bunch of youth any buck tags for general season in all the units. I know my nephew wants to shoot anything with antlers and a big 2 point would be just the ticket!
I don't believe the deer numbers are down just maybe the number of mature bucks in some areas.
-Lowedog
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 11:38:48 AM
Although I wasnt real clear, that was what I meant about permits for 2 points throughout the east side, I think kids would have a ball as long as adults didn't do the shooting, like Ive seen happen several times >:(
Post by: Geno on January 15, 2008, 11:44:02 AM
Quote
As far as 2 points go, like I said before, let the kids shoot em. Give out a bunch of youth any buck tags for general season in all the units.
Good idea, let the kids help out. Issue two point youth permits and reduce the number of special permits for a couple of years . Also late archery should be a permit hunt in Mule deer units.
Post by: Colville on January 15, 2008, 03:04:33 PM
I think this is what the WDFW would say as well. Overall pop numbers aren't low. While I'm sure they count mature vs immature bucks they haven't managed the whole system with an eye toward the max mature bucks. Nor should they when the response they get to license holders is highly in preference to being able to hunt every year.
Before we start making solutions, ones that carry a massive change to the norm and require a huge sacrifice in weapon/location/open seasons... there has to be stated a specific problem and a measurement so you know if you've solved it. Is the specific problem that there's not enough mature bucks for late tag holders? What's enough? Is it that there's not enough bucks period? It sounds from reading the info at the WDFW and posts here that the complaint is that there's not enough 170 and up class bucks (approximation) for the late tag permit drawers to kill. And I think Bone is dead on about how many of those critters bit the dust a couple of seasons back.
One could go the other way though, end all late seasons and go to all general and none later than the 15th of Oct. Everyone will be able to hunt and you'll start seeing some massive bucks again on the winter ground. We aren't that efficient at killing the migrators till migration. We can have both open seasons and big bucks... we just can't have a 90% success rate shooting gallery on the winter ground. Some of those big deer would still get taken in the general but there'd be a ton of them left over too.
I understand wanting to draw that late hunt and know you'll get a huge deer. I'd like that. I just haven't seen a reason to steal general seasons from thousands in order to provide opportunity for a couple hundred. There's no way to provide even a fraction of the hunting opportunity if people want that opportunity to be on all but guaranteed success rate, winter ground hunts. The quality would return just as fast by ending the general season sooner and ending all late hunts as it would by going to permit only. Yeah, everyone would have to struggle to find those big deer, it wouldn't be easy but they would be there. But it's not enough that they be there, they have to be easy to kill too. Bottom line, there are people here with an interest in those late hunts who don't care about the opinions of other general season hunters and no one hunter or style has the moral high ground here. If your solution is self serving and pitting one hunter against another please try to explain why you think it's reasonable to take someone else's hunt and style in order to provide for your's. Believe it or not, there are general season hunters who don't put in for late permits who are passionate about hunting.
Post by: Bigshooter on January 15, 2008, 03:17:47 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 15, 2008, 03:19:19 PM
I think most everyone will be happy with some minor tweaking of the current seasons. Contrary to what we are reading here there are still some hogs walking around right now. A year or two of lower pressure on the late seasons will make some major improvements on the age of bucks.
Believe it or not, there are general season hunters who don't put in for late permits who are passionate about hunting.
There are also a lot of hunters who put in for late hunts for nothing more than an easy meat hunt.
-Lowedog
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 15, 2008, 03:30:23 PM
Thats my 2cents.
Post by: jdb on January 15, 2008, 07:19:07 PM
Post by: wab on January 15, 2008, 08:17:12 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 15, 2008, 08:41:39 PM
What is wildlife's plan to help these deer if a big kill starts...any one know how to find out? I would be more than willing to kick in some cash for the cause if there is a plan in place....
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 15, 2008, 08:50:20 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 15, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 08:56:53 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 15, 2008, 09:01:10 PM
If they have a big outbreak when the numbers are low it could be disastrous. :dunno:
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 15, 2008, 09:02:46 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 09:09:14 PM
Post by: skookum on January 15, 2008, 09:22:01 PM
Boneaddict’s Entiat Deer Management plan.
This is easy for me since I rarely hunt there, but here is an Idea for you. For the Entiat unit, a two point only season for 2008. (All user groups)
We all know that there is a growing concern that there are a bunch of two points in the Entiat. I am still a firm believer in the three point or better rule, just because I have seen a lot of good come from it. If we continue to hunt for quantity versus quality, we need to do something to try to improve both. Two genetic groups are being seen a lot in the Entiat or Chelan, big 2s and those with weak backs. We will continue to enhance this bad trend if we do not do something. There is so much pressure on the big bucks for all the other things I have discussed, we are trimming out a majority of the big ones, or the prime genetics. Sure, there are some big ones still, but let them have a year off. Get rid of the twos, or a bunch of them. Let the big ones breed for a year. It is obvious that the Entiat gets a majority of the trophy hunting pressure with permits and raffle tags etc.
I hunted the entiat before the made it permit only. And my little brother drew the late archery tag this Year. We seen 400 plus deer in one day. Out of all those deer about 50 were decent buck only one over 26" the rest were 19"-23". When we went there
before it was a permit draw we saw some absolute monsters. There is still a lot of deer there I didn't see the quality this time though. I'm sure they are still there this was the later hunt the rut was pretty much done. i think they should keep it 3 point min
and does because they cannot hurt the doe population over there.
Post by: Colville on January 15, 2008, 09:27:41 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 15, 2008, 09:52:33 PM
And i definitly hear what your saying about when you were there and saw the big bucks, and then went back and they werent there. they werent somewhere else, in general they just arent there anymore.
when they do their game post harvest counts all those small young deer that are 2 and 3 points that are 2 or 2 1/2 years old. they consider those mature bucks. they are counted in that section. So their numbers like said before seem amazing to them. they look perfect. But there isnt the top tier bucks in there, there is a huge sharp decline in mature 4 to 6 year old bucks. You can talk to any land owner in the entiat this winter, and ask them what kind of deer numbers are around. they will tell you the dissapointing news.
I know the sportsmens assoc. replanted some bitterbrush in the oklahoma gulch area a couple years ago. But like you said its really hard to grow. especially to get it big enough for the deer, so they dont eat it done and kill it.
I would love to be able to buy a bunch of plants, and plant them on all of our land around our orchards.
Post by: Ridinshotgun on January 15, 2008, 10:13:39 PM
Post by: mossback91 on January 15, 2008, 10:21:36 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2008, 10:22:27 PM
I think if season went to permit only we would get to hunt about every 5 to 7 years not good!
That would all depend on how many permits were available each year. It definitely wouldn't have to be a 5 year wait between hunts. If they reduced the number of mule deer hunters by 50% from what we have now with the over-the-counter tags, then I would think that on average you would be able to hunt every other year. Of course, the more popular units (such as Entiat) would most likely be a longer wait. So I guess if you're thinking a 5 to 7 year wait for the Entiat you could be right. But those who just want to hunt mule deer anywhere could apply for other less popular units.
Post by: Ironhead on January 16, 2008, 08:50:12 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 16, 2008, 09:01:27 AM
WDFW has already cut back E. WA. to a nine day season. Regular rifle season is always open to early. If we are going to have a nine day season lets make it the last nine days of OCT! That might give us a chance to get some weather and a big migrator buck. Most Okanogan GMU only give 15 late permits. That number should be 50! WDFW would rather let poachers, prediators and cars get most of the deer. That season runs all year long. I guess we could cut the season and permits even more. Then when we have bad winters even more deer will die. Even the 4X4 bucks we did not get to hunt. I think if season went to permit only we would get to hunt about every 5 to 7 years not good!
I rest my case.
Post by: boneaddict on January 16, 2008, 09:19:01 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 16, 2008, 09:20:10 AM
Post by: Lowedog on January 16, 2008, 09:55:50 AM
-Lowedog
Post by: boneaddict on January 16, 2008, 10:19:55 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 16, 2008, 05:08:38 PM
Post by: rougheye on January 16, 2008, 05:16:41 PM
Post by: wab on January 16, 2008, 05:49:53 PM
Post by: dbllunger on January 16, 2008, 06:23:36 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 16, 2008, 06:43:26 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 16, 2008, 06:59:29 PM
did i mention 310 late archery deer tags for the entiat and 572.5 people huntin the swakane unit ( crazy)
Too bad the harvest report doesn't say how many hunted the late archery only. 684 hunters reported hunting the Swakane archery for 2006. Taken into consideration the people who forgot to report it's probably over 700 and most of them in the late season. I wonder how many hunters per square mile that is?
If they would go to permit only for late archery with a low amount of tags per unit I would burn my 10 bonus points in a heartbeat for one of those tags.
The WSB would scream bloody murder if they did that though. It's amazing how much pull that organization has with the WDFW. To have a unit open for an unlimited general hunt that time of year is rediculous! I don't care if it is archery.
-Lowedog
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 16, 2008, 07:18:21 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 16, 2008, 08:07:29 PM
Post by: bornforhorns on January 16, 2008, 09:54:01 PM
Our problem is not really a "problem", the fact is there is a science to this and it doesn't start with " Well, I'm seeing this, or I'm seeing that". Even theories in science need to be based on a lot of facts...I can't say anything for a matter of fact on this situation other than what the harvest report and spring counts tell us. Any changes should start and end there, with that being said, I am not a fan of those who want 100% success on big bucks and a cut in the late permits and along with a few other minor adjustments would be a great start.
Post by: Ridgerunner on January 17, 2008, 08:27:05 AM
Keep a short 9 day general season. Then offer 200-300 permits in each Chelan and Okanogan counties gmu for any buck Oct. 24-31. The offer a limited number of November tags (20) limited to 4 point or better. If you draw a tag you need to wait 2 years to apply again.
Everyone has the ability to hunt during the general season, a good number of people could potentially have a good hunt in late October depending on the weather that year and for those who elect the November tags, a true trophy type hunt. This would eliminate bubba joe putting in for the November hunts because he can shoot a deer from the truck.
Post by: boneaddict on January 17, 2008, 09:03:04 AM
Post by: bornforhorns on January 17, 2008, 04:36:24 PM
Post by: HighCountry10 on January 17, 2008, 05:08:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 17, 2008, 05:25:04 PM
Post by: HuntingFanatic on January 18, 2008, 04:12:42 PM
First
I think that we should make the general rifle season longer. Not later....but longer. Keep it 3pt or better.The poor deer are being pushed back and forth directly into the sights of other hunters. I think if we were to disperse the concentration of orange some of the local deer would be able to make it through the season.
Second.
Give better seasons for the other species of deer. More option = less people that feel they have to shoot a mule deer. I think we all agree that there are plenty of whitetails around to absorb some of the lead.
Third
Have a 2 point or less draw tag. For how long? dunno How many? no clue. But I do agree that there are too many mature 2 points breeding. I think that youth hunters would have a blast with this tag. But i think there are too many jerkwads that would drag their child out into the field just so "pops" could get his deer. So I say keep the tag open to anyone.
Fourth
Cut down on the number of late tags and Have a rotating late tag draw. Every 2 to 3 years have no late tags in certain units. So that every year there would be a handful of units that are closed for late tags. I would be game for that. I mean really! The way its going now Im never going to get drawn for a late tag anyways. Having a handfull of the breeders we want surviving may not sound like a lot now, but, 6 to 10 years from now would be very noticeable.
Nothing is going to happen overnight. I know the thread was directed for the Entiat area.....but I think that the other areas are suffering as well.
Post by: tmbrline on January 20, 2008, 10:15:46 AM
Post by: HuntingFanatic on January 20, 2008, 10:27:37 AM
All west side hunters apply for limited mule deer tags.
lol yeah right!
Post by: lemondog on January 20, 2008, 12:42:37 PM
Yes, it will cost more (everything does), and you better get used to it. If you really want better hunting we need to take extreme measures - not band aids. If that riles you up (like it does my Dad) take a look around at States that are doing well. This state has too many people to be successful under the current hunting system. We can move the State towards change but we all have to be able to agree on what change is necessary.
I was involved as a representative for the Washington State Bow Hunters at the Commission meetings when we went to separate user groups (Archery, Modern, and Muzzle Loader). There was a lot of in-fighting which left the Game Commission frustrated and the different user groups disappointed. We need leadership and a large backing with everyone agreeing on a common plan. Then we can start campaigning and be ready when the game commission hearings come up for the next season setting.
Post by: tmbrline on January 20, 2008, 01:04:31 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 20, 2008, 01:05:06 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 20, 2008, 01:27:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 20, 2008, 02:21:12 PM
Post by: wallerinelk on January 20, 2008, 06:17:40 PM
Post by: lemondog on January 20, 2008, 07:52:17 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 20, 2008, 08:08:33 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 20, 2008, 09:01:17 PM
How about this for an idea, when you buy a deer tag you have to choose what species you want to hunt? How much pressure do you guys think that would reduce on the mule deer? Do many people hunt mule deer with the thought that they can hold out and if not sucessfull they can fill there tag on one of the later blacktail or whitetail hunts?
Just kind of wondering out loud here I guess...
-Lowedog
Post by: bobcat on January 20, 2008, 09:08:54 PM
Post by: Ironhead on January 21, 2008, 09:17:25 AM
Example- Unit 247 Entiat and Unit 246 Slide Ridge (combine common units)
Wilderness only
Early Archery Aug.25-Sept.5 25 permits Either sex
Early Muzz Sept.6-16 15 permits Either sex
Early Rifle Sept.17-27 10permits Either sex
Modern Firearm
General seas. 1 Oct.1-9 250 permits Buck only
General seas. 2 Oct.15-22 100 permits Buck only
General seas. 3 Oct.23-30 150 permits Doe only
General seas. 4 Nov.5-11 15 permits Buck only
Late Archery Nov.15-22 15 permits Buck only
Private lands only Oct.15-25 100 permits Either sex
Thats 680 tags total - 30 Nov. tags- 100 private land tags- 150 doe only tags
If not drawn for Mule Deer you could still hunt Whitetail and Blacktail over the counter, this would spread the hunters out.
It's sounds complicated, but I beleive it's the best way to have quality Deer hunting in Washington.
Post by: lemondog on January 21, 2008, 07:46:45 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on January 21, 2008, 08:06:21 PM
Post by: lemondog on January 21, 2008, 10:16:19 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 22, 2008, 08:34:20 AM
Like I said in an earlier post, Chelan County deer numbers are close to capacity as it is. The amount of mature bucks may be down at the moment in the Entiat unit but that's an easy fix by reducing late permits.
I for one enjoy being able to hunt every year without having to spend a fortune to do so. I may have to work hard to get away from the crowds but I would rather do that than maybe get to hunt every other or every 3rd year. I have no interest in hunting blacktail or whitetail either that I would have to travel across the state to do so.
-Lowedog
Post by: Colville on January 22, 2008, 10:06:16 AM
Most of the "solutions" are focused on insuring a quality hunt for a very limited number of people at the cost of hundreds to thousands who will not be able to hunt at all in that unit. With a lot of anger at crowding, doing this in the Entiat won't help crowding in the neighboring units.
There are tons of potential solutions, it all depends on how you define the problem which so far is pretty generic "not enough mature bucks". How about cut the late tags from 65 to 35. make the general season end on the 10th of Oct or the Sunday that is closest on a 9 day season. Limit the hunting opportunity for anyone who puts in for Entiat late any buck. Late permit seekers can't hunt the Entiat general at all. A lot of guys would not put in for that tag if it meant they couldn't also go on the 9 day hunt in the general. We could make the Entiat hunt choice selection available only if you chose only 1 hunt. Anyone who wants and is willing to hunt any of 4 units won't be able to select Entiat. These measures would dramatically cut the pool of applicants for that tag, the reduced permits and early ending general season should improve mature buck count without taking away the general season. But these type of solutions ask that the guys preferring "quality" also make some kind of sacrifice to provide for it. I see no reason people who prefer quantity/opportunity should be forced to subsidize quality for such a small number of hunters. That's what it really comes down to in the end. Who pays/who benefits. I'm all for late hunts on quality deer but I'm not willing to suggest general season hunters primarily pay the tab for it.
Seems the solution should force both side's hands. Want to hunt general, not going to hunt late mature bucks. Want to hunt that big buck in the snow, don't plan on hunting the general. Obviously, this is an overstatement and no one would go for it. But that's where we are, hunters aren't homogeneous.
Post by: Bigshooter on January 22, 2008, 12:49:28 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on January 22, 2008, 02:57:31 PM
I agree with a lot of people, cut back on the number of tags in those trophy areas, and decrease the activity on the winter ranges, I bet some people wouldn't be against cuttin way back on the permits for a few years until the numbers rebound then still only give out a limited number. Way too many tags now. I dont know if this would ever be possible but possibly close the entiat and other trophy areas during the general season just like the Desert does. Although there are no migrants in the desert so I am guessing that is why the season there is the way it is. Where the entitat deer during the general season are mostly resident deer unless a fluke snowstorm pushes the migrants down. But, the migrants are those bucks hanging out up high so another option could possilby be to not allow the high hunt to happen in those areas as well.
Post by: wab on January 22, 2008, 06:16:57 PM
Post by: lemondog on January 22, 2008, 06:59:23 PM
Post by: spin05 on January 22, 2008, 09:09:16 PM
Post by: Lowedog on January 22, 2008, 09:36:06 PM
In 20 years half the people over here will be living in your back yard.Picking berrys,pulling xmass boughs x-country skiing, hunting deer and everything else.
I thought that half those people were already here! :chuckle: I see them picking berries and x-country skiing but not many of them are deer hunting.
I would rather we do something so we preserve quality and opportunity even if it is every 3rd or 4th year. I would not have liked someone telling me this when I was 25 but I can see things much clearer now. And , I do have to travel accross the state to hunt Mule Deer and that is just part of the deal.
The situation is not as grim as it's made out to be. I am not 25 I am 40 and I was born and raised on mule deer hunting right here in the Wenatchee valley. Guess what, the mule deer hunting is better now than it was when I was 25. When I was a kid and the seasons lasted 5 weekends and I would have been happy to shoot any buck I seldom saw a buck. Now with a 9 day season I pass on some very nice bucks every year and see countless spikes, 2 and 3 points.
And traveling to hunt is not part of the deal for me. You have the choice to stay on the west side and hunt blacktail. On a permit only for mule deer system if you don't draw a tag you can stay close to home and hunt blacktail. I wouldn't have that luxery.
I've been taking my 13yr old nephew hunting the last 2 years and he has killed deer both years. So now let's go to a permit season and tell my nephew he can't hunt for the next year or 2 because he didn't draw a tag?
Just so you know Lemondog, I have nothing against you and I am just providing another point of view.
Did I mention the last two WINTERS!!!!!!! Guess how this winter is going for the deer? {Entiat and Methow} LIKE SHI_! Guess what?, there will be more complaning about lack of mature bucks next year. :(
Is this based on something you have seen? I don't know about the Methow but the south facing slopes on the Chelan County winter range have been bare most of the winter. I haven't been out much looking around this winter but I don't see that dire of conditions here where I'm at.
Collville, very good post! You have made some great points on this matter!
-Lowedog
Post by: lemondog on January 22, 2008, 10:24:12 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on January 22, 2008, 10:35:16 PM
Michael