Post by: Kain on January 14, 2010, 11:19:10 PM
Legislation Introduced to Attack Gun Shows in Washington
Thursday, January 14, 2010
Please Stand-Up and Make Your Voices Heard!
State Representatives Brendan Williams (D-22) and Maralyn Chase (D-32) have introduced House Bill 2477, a bill that seeks to abolish the private transfer of firearms, even between family and friends, at gun shows.
Simply put, HB2477 would hold law-abiding gun owners liable for the acts of criminals. Under this bill, if a firearm is privately transferred at a gun show to a person who is ineligible, the seller can be held liable for injury or death caused by the criminal use of that firearm.
Please contact both of your State Representatives and your State Senator TODAY at 800-562-6000 and politely urge them to oppose HB2477. More contact information for your legislators can be found here.
Post by: andrew_12gauge on January 14, 2010, 11:23:23 PM
Post by: Shootmoore on January 14, 2010, 11:28:23 PM
How about they make it so if a criminal is released on a reduced bond (clemens) with a felony record and commits a violent act that the judge is held responsible.
How about if everytime someone is killed or injured in a government mandated "gun free zone" by a firearm that the legislators who mandated the "Gun Free Zone" are held liable.
I think that is going into this round of letters.
Shootmoore
Post by: ADAMS on January 15, 2010, 12:05:18 AM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on January 15, 2010, 01:05:12 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 15, 2010, 04:27:22 AM
This legislation is being introduced by my own State Representative from my district; Brendan Williams. :bash:
The proposed law reads:
1 AN ACT Relating to liability for the criminal use of firearms sold
2 at gun shows or events; and adding a new section to chapter 9.41 RCW.
3 BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:
4 NEW SECTION. Sec. 1. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW
5 to read as follows:
6 (1) A person who sells, delivers, or otherwise transfers, at a gun
7 show or event, a firearm to any person whom a criminal background check
8 in accordance with RCW 9.41.090 and 18 U.S.C. Sec. 921 et seq. would
9 have revealed was ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm,
10 is strictly liable for damages for the injury or death of another
11 person that results from the criminal use of that firearm by any
12 person.
13 (2) For the purposes of this section, "gun show or event" means a
14 place or event, a gun trade show, gun collectors' show, flea market, or
15 auction, other than a permanent retail store, at which three or more
16 individuals assemble to display, sell, lease, or transfer new or used
17 firearms or firearm components to the public and that is not exempt
18 from collecting sales tax under RCW 82.08.0251. "Gun show or event"
19 includes the entire premises provided for the gun show or event,
p. 1 HB 2477
1 including parking areas near the gun show or event that the sponsor
2 knows or should reasonably know will be used for parking for the gun
3 show or event.
--- END ---
HB 2477
Find your own legislator here and write to them, it is very easy;
DO IT NOW!
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/Default.aspx
Post by: croix on January 15, 2010, 07:20:21 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 15, 2010, 07:39:25 AM
I hate having to try to keep up on this crap, but I want my kids to have the same opportunity that I have had. Screw the damned politicians!
Post by: croix on January 15, 2010, 08:18:38 AM
Post by: Holg3107 on January 15, 2010, 08:36:19 AM
Post by: Savage3006 on January 15, 2010, 10:07:56 AM
Post by: andrew_12gauge on January 15, 2010, 10:42:27 AM
I could be wrong here but i thought they passed a bill a few years ago that required all firearms sold at sanctioned gun shows to be registered to the new owner? Doesn't that require a background check? I could be wrong, either way this is just another unenforcable piece of legislation that will be extremely difficult to moniter. Unless the gun you are selling is registered to you LOL, this seems to be a bit of a stretch.
even if the gun is registered to you how will they know if you sold it at a gun show or just put an ad out in the classifieds and sold it that way, im guessing that pope could come on here and tell you that any lawyer worth his salt could get you outta this one if they tried to enforce it
Post by: Crunchy on January 15, 2010, 11:09:41 AM
Post by: Shootmoore on January 15, 2010, 11:18:07 AM
Although I dont necessarily agree with some of the liablity aspects of this new legislation, the principle of trying to keep people from selling guns to felons isnt a bad one. I think they are trying to prevent just anyone buying a gun at a gun show that couldnt buy one at a gun shop.
I agree to a point Crunchy. The problem here is the responsibility is once again placed on someone other than the person commiting the crime. It is already illegal for the felon to purchase and own the firearm whether he makes the purchase at the gun show or not.
This falls under the same ideology of the lawsuits against gun manufacturers. Instead of focusing on the person who uses the firearm illegaly they are targeting a 3rd party for the misuse of an object. Enforcement and or tools to assist in the enforcement of the already violated laws would be a better way to go in my opinion
Shootmoore
Post by: Crunchy on January 15, 2010, 11:24:17 AM
Post by: Shootmoore on January 15, 2010, 11:33:01 AM
I see your point, but why not enforce same rules at a gun show as they do anywhere else you can buy a gun?
Because you can't. It is illegal for LE as your well aware to use the NCIC and provide that information to non-LE. It has the same issues that the Legal Alien Weapons Permit that there is a lawsuit over now. They passed a law without the ability to do the background checks. This effectively put a ban on any legal alien from owning or possessing a firearm.
Without the legal ability to do a background check at a gun show, it effectively bans the private sale at a gunshow which is an effective tool of banning gun shows as they are no longer viable without the ability to sell. Without the proper laws in place to overcome the ability at a gun show to perform a background check it becomes a ban of gunshow sales under another name.
Shootmoore
Post by: croix on January 15, 2010, 11:33:17 AM
I see your point, but why not enforce same rules at a gun show as they do anywhere else you can buy a gun?
I get what you are saying here, but I think the biggest difference is that a gun show includes private sales and individuals who don't have access or resources necessary to conduct a background investigation. Private sales would be subject to a standard that they cannot possibly achieve. :twocents:
Post by: Mike450r on January 15, 2010, 11:38:40 AM
I do think that there should be a way to help prevent people that are unable to own or possess a firearm from buying at gunshow or private sale. Perhaps changing it so potential gun buyers are able to on their own submit the same information used by FFL dealers for approval. If approved they could print a certificate of approval that is good for say 6 months or so and then be required to present approval with ID at the time of purchase. They could do this at home, maybe gunshows could have a station with several computers that could be used for this as well. I know this could be subject to fraud but the people that would do this are more likely to buy stolen or just steal a gun than pay market value.
If this were a requirement I would then agree that if a gun is sold at a gun show or privately to somebody without ID and proof of approval that the seller be subject to punishment/liability.
Post by: croix on January 20, 2010, 11:04:29 AM
> As a gun collector, sports shooter, Vietnam era Army veteran and
> member of the NRA I share your opposition and will vote accordingly.
>
> Sincerely,
> Fred Finn
> State Representative
> 35th Legislative District
> 430 John L. O'Brien Building
> Olympia, WA 98504
> Finn.fred@leg.wa.gov
Post by: Deep Forks on January 21, 2010, 12:09:40 AM
This such a bunch of :crap: Our forfathers would like to leave their resting place to fight for our RIGHTS >:( Many of my friends and I have written our legislators and will continue to do so :)
Post by: SilkWWU on January 21, 2010, 12:34:09 AM
NOW, this law doesn't appear to be anything similar to what I just suggested, the law in question seems to say, it's a crap shoot who you sell your guns too, no one would sell them!
Post by: ICEMAN on January 21, 2010, 05:43:26 AM
..., but something needs to be done with the gun show loophole. Dealers are able to go to these shows and sell firearms without any prerequisites. I understand that there are other ways up getting firearms, but I don't know why we can't implement a similar background check function at gun shows? Maybe if the state implemented some sort of background checking system that was call in capable or something like that?
Uhh...not sure what you are talking about. Any gun show I have attended and purchased at, all Dealer gun sales were run thru NICS just like at Wally World.
Are you suggesting that you have observed a purchase or purchased a gun from a dealer where no background NICS check was performed?
Post by: Skillet on January 21, 2010, 06:16:34 AM
Post by: Bofire on January 21, 2010, 07:46:06 AM
Whats next selling a car to a guy who drives drunk!!!! and its my fault when he kills someone?????
flippin morons!
Carl
Post by: SilkWWU on January 21, 2010, 07:11:33 PM
..., but something needs to be done with the gun show loophole. Dealers are able to go to these shows and sell firearms without any prerequisites. I understand that there are other ways up getting firearms, but I don't know why we can't implement a similar background check function at gun shows? Maybe if the state implemented some sort of background checking system that was call in capable or something like that?
Uhh...not sure what you are talking about. Any gun show I have attended and purchased at, all Dealer gun sales were run thru NICS just like at Wally World.
Are you suggesting that you have observed a purchase or purchased a gun from a dealer where no background NICS check was performed?
I was under the impression that it was not required to perform a background check when purchasing a firearm at a gun show.
Post by: woodswalker on January 21, 2010, 07:21:00 PM
its NOt required to do a NICS check for a PRIVATE sale...for a dealer sale YES...but not an individual selling a gun. If I put several of my guns on a table and sold them...private sale...I'm NOT an FFL....so NO NICS...but I only would sell at WAC mostly so I know that folks with club badges are vetted already...., but something needs to be done with the gun show loophole. Dealers are able to go to these shows and sell firearms without any prerequisites. I understand that there are other ways up getting firearms, but I don't know why we can't implement a similar background check function at gun shows? Maybe if the state implemented some sort of background checking system that was call in capable or something like that?
Uhh...not sure what you are talking about. Any gun show I have attended and purchased at, all Dealer gun sales were run thru NICS just like at Wally World.
Are you suggesting that you have observed a purchase or purchased a gun from a dealer where no background NICS check was performed?
I was under the impression that it was not required to perform a background check when purchasing a firearm at a gun show.