Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: bobcat on February 11, 2010, 09:59:56 PM
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Did anybody notice in the new 2010 proposal that they have Little Naches (346) now being open during the early archery season, for spike and antlerless elk? I never thought they'd do that. The early rifle bull elk permit might not be so good anymore...
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Yeah, noticed it the other day. The bumping and nile are going to become spike only units, so i am sure everyone is going to migrate to the little naches to hunt. I know I am.
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Thats a good way to lessen the quality of hunt for the guys who finally draw a branched bull tag and now will have to compete with spike and cow hunters calling in the bulls for kicks. Its the same way they ruin the archery draw units in eastern Oregon. nwhunter
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NWHunter I agree 100%. That is gonna screw up the archery and muzzle loader bull tags in there.
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:bdid:
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i wouldnt mind the hunts just not at the same time as branch bull. why not let them in early like aug24th to sept. 7th.
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Where are you guys reading this ? Anyone have a link ? Thanks. Mike
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I see they have the Blue Mountain bull elk permits going from Sept 1-19. So at least the hunters with a bull permit get 6 days to hunt before the general archery season opens up. All the Colockum/Yakima units have their permit season Sept 7-19, which is the same as the general season. I'm not sure I'd classify those permits in the Quality category as the WDFW has. :dunno:
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Where are you guys reading this ? Anyone have a link ? Thanks. Mike
http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2010/wsr_10-04-125.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2010/wsr_10-04-125.pdf)
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Thanks. Mike
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This is not good. I have lots of work to do now.
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Crud, that was one of the only reasons I hunted there.
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That really sucks. I dont know if i even want to put in for the peaches tag. My buddies and i went in there last year cause they had the bull permit. Had a good time not lots of people in there. Know it will be a :bash: :bash: :bash:zoooooooo
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! WTF, they will have just ruined one of the best hunts in WA! :bash: :bash: :bash:
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This is going to push more elk in the wilderness area (crow lake/ fife peak) and across the hwy to the Nile and Bumping units.
It will make for a better hunt in those units but they are now spike only :bash:
I know it i will be hunting LN this season.....
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it looks like 352 & 356 are crossed out and 346 is added for next year meaning no early archery in bumping and nile, and only peaches is open in early season... can that be right?
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it looks like 352 & 356 are crossed out and 346 is added for next year meaning no early archery in bumping and nile, and only peaches is open in early season... can that be right?
No, if you look they made 352 and 356 spike only units. Knowing that will displace a bunch of hunters they are opening 346 for cow and spike... At least that is my theory
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That sucks. Way to screw up a quality hunt. Go WDFW!!!
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On top of all of this they are still calling Peaches a Quality tag under their new draw system. Quality my arse! Sounds like they need to give out cow tags fro 352 and 356
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This does suck, I've hunted the Bumping unit for 8 years. I won't be moving over to 346, can you imagine the crowds ? I started archery hunting because muzzleloader went spike bull only and now it has caught up to me in the archery world. Spike bull archery is a hard living ! I'm surprised they did not offer cow tags for those areas as someone already stated. We'll see how it shakes out, I already sent my email to the state. I love my area, going to have to hike somewhere else this summer to scout. Mike
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it looks like 352 & 356 are crossed out and 346 is added for next year meaning no early archery in bumping and nile, and only peaches is open in early season... can that be right?
No, if you look they made 352 and 356 spike only units. Knowing that will displace a bunch of hunters they are opening 346 for cow and spike... At least that is my theory
Yep you're right, I didn't look up to spike only when I saw the cross-outs.
I finally figure out a spot and they take it away from me - dang :(
What west side draws are worth putting in for - looks like my east side days are numbered :'(
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Unbelievable, why???
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I wonder what the reasoning was behind their decision to change 352 and 356 to spike only units for the early season. There seems to be plenty of elk around there and they are still giving out cow permits for muzzleloader and modern seasons.
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Quality hunt down the *censored*ter> In a few years they will change it again and blame it on something???? Who knows. Once my daughter is done with sports and if this state doesnt pull there head out. I will hunt back in Montana with my family... :bash: :bash:
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I don't know what the reasoning is either hughjorgan, seems like plenty of elk & I don't see to many getting killed in there for archery early. The Bumping unit is tough hunting for me & spike only would be killer. No reason to archery hunt when you can rifle hunt for the same bull :dunno: ? Hope they change it but not holding my breath. Mike
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Doesn't suprise me one bit, our WDFW couldn't manage thier way out of a wat paper bag, just close it and give 'em all to the tribes and be done with it, they seem to have lost touch with the fact that there were no elk here before the sportsmans' dollars brought them, this sucks...
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I totally agree with johnsc6!!!
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I can't believe that they totally screwed up the Peaches hunt for people that draw. It's unreal - one of the few places where you could draw and, if you wanted to, get away from some people. This totally sucks.
Guess I'll look into putting in for somewhere else now. Thanks WDFW!!!!!!!
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No, you're right, it will make the Goose Prairie bull permit more desireable as there will be less people hunting the Bumping and Nile units.
Like all changes, there are going to be some postive consequences, and some negative.
I guess one good thing about letting archery hunters kill cows in Little Naches, is that at least the indians won't be the only ones killing elk in there.
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I have heard several complaints from bowhunters that hunt 340 and 336 about the elk herds moving into 346 as soon as the season starts, so maybe they were finally heard. I've been in 346 listening to the rutting activity and talked to hunters from the other side of the Manastash ridge. The hunters usually say they came over to at least see some elk during their hunt.
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Do we have any voice on the 2010-2011 proposal?
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This is from the first page of the proposal:
Hearing location(s):
Natural Resources Building, Room 172
1111 Washington Street SE
Olympia, Washington 98501
(360) 902-2515
Date: March 12-13, 2010 Time: 8:00 am
Submit written comments to:
Name: Wildlife Program Commission Meeting Public Comments
Address: 600 Capitol Way North, Olympia WA 98501-1091
e-mail Wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
fax (360) 902-2162
By: Wednesday, February 24, 2010
Date of intended adoption: April 9-10, 2010
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Thanks. I don't know if this will make a difference.
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This will definetly make the goose Prarie bull tag a better hunt.... had that tag last year and saw almost as many hunters as you do in the Nile in late season... and we were 7.5 miles into the wilderness... :bash:
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The link Bobcat posted said it was only Proposals so how many changes do they really make official? time to write em letters.
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I would like to hear Norsepeak's opinion on this one. How about Norse?
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The link Bobcat posted said it was only Proposals so how many changes do they really make official? time to write em letters.
rarely does the commision change the proposals...that being said, yes, there will be less people on the south side of the highway...still spike hunting only with any weapon, never mind a bow can be tough. I am discourged by the fact that the WDFW intensionally lowered the cow population across the whole yakima herd and seems to be backtracking now, if you look at the new hunting proposals i would put my money on cow hunts for archery being a draw in the previously over the counter units so they can soak a measly extra five bucks out of each of us
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I think it is horrible how your hunt is being (messed with) to a point I guess. I wish I had comforting words for you that would make your outlook on this a little more positive, but I don't. My oppinion on the situation is tough luck! We are all having to go through this and deal with it because we as hunters are always bickering back and forth worried about the other guy getting a better deal rather it be you are a muzzle loader, archery or modern firearm hunter. (Fortunately there are some good ol' meat hunters left out there that are just happy to shoot anything and really feel that way) Unfortunately a majority of us are caught up in this trophy quest that has been instilled in us by advertisements, magazines and videos. I was perfectly content with my early archery season from the 8th to the 21st. Sometimes the hunt would be easier due to rut activity, sometimes not. It is not a given any year and I know that. That is why it took me 7 years hunting to take my first elk. A cow, and I was happy as all get out! However, I never worried about how many bulls the rifle hunters were taking nor did I worry about the muzzle loaders. But in the end, someone was worried that I might be getting too many quality bulls (as an archery hunter) when I would only get drawn every 4-5 years for an any elk tag in 340. So every 4-5 years, I need for the rut to actually be going on during the early archery season, (which is really only going to happen every 6-7 years) and I need the bulls that are bugling to do so during the day not just at night (Probably happens every 10-11 years, personally never witnessed it during early archery season) well, I think you are getting my point on that one, so once every blue moon when all these different so called stars align, I might have a good chance at getting a quality bull. Some people do see it that way and had their panties in a wad worrying about my seasons and success enough that they had to throw a b!tch fit. Therefore we all get to feel your pain with changes in our seasons. I am losing quantity of days in my hunt as an archer for my favorite gmu but gaining quality in others. Those others are gmus that were quality to other weapons hunters and are being sacrificed by them to get quantity and quality in my favorite gmu. To sum it all up, maybe if we would quit worrying about somebody else getting a better deal than ourselves, then we can b!tch about more reasonable stuff that really needs to be changed. Then we can go from one season to the next already knowing what dates we can hunt and have a good idea of what to expect from that hunt (crowding and such) Let's all be positive and think about how thankful we are to have public land all across the state to hunt. Without the land there is no hunting. Who in their right minds is going to let hunters crowd up on their private land knowing that they are liable for what happens to the hunters. I am personnaly thankful that I have a place to hunt with a tag that I can buy over the counter.
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This kind of sucks. As for cow permits. If you look they have cut way back on the cow permits issued to the muzzle loaders and the rifle hunters in that PMU. So maybe the cow numbers are way down.
Hopefully the WDFW isn't going off of their yearly survey done by air. I mean the WDFW can't be dumb enough to base those numbers off of the elk that they see down low during one of the mildest winters on record could they :DOH:
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Going to be hard to decide what to do for the season as I have hunted Bumping for 6 years. I did see 3 spikes early archery but that is hard hunting to kill a spike only with a bow when you have to. 346 will be packed !! Might be good the first day or two but the elk will smarten up fast over there. I only have 2 points and not much of a hope to draw. Will just wait and see. I'm leaning towards less crowds. Mike
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I did not see any thing in the proposal, but i wonder if they are going to issue cow permits for the Nile and Bumping units to raise more money and that would reduce the number of hunters in Litele Nachese.(Archey season of course)
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This is more proof that the WDFW either doesn't know what they're doing or only cares about revenue. I think we all know which one that is. THey aren't even trying to hide it anymore. Look at how our new permit system is. They did that to raise more money. Go WDFW!!!!!! Go liberal state legislator that is also screwing of the WDFW.
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Stupidest thing I have ever seen in this state. There are no more "premier" hunts in Washington unless you draw the "1" tag during the best part of the rut in selected units. Good luck with that! I will burn my points and never buy a elk permit in this state again! Wait 5-7 years to deal with the circus. The Little Naches will be a circus! I thought last year was bad with guys driving up and bugling off landings right after passing a parked rig. It will be like rifle season in there. :mgun:
The only way this state is going to learn is all the hunters need to have a tea party and refuse to buy licenses and tags for a year.
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well, it's gonna make the big bull hunting in Bumping a lot better due to the lack of hunters in the spike only area, but like has been said already it will make the lt. naches unit a very tough hunt for big bull guys, espiecially becuase the forest service has shoved all of the motorized users into that area too. but the only bright spot is that there are some nice areas where you can still get away from roads....Over all I think it's going to basically ruin one of the best bull units in the state. Typical of our game dept...go for the quick dollars and not manage for the long run :bash:
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well, it's gonna make the big bull hunting in Bumping a lot better due to the lack of hunters in the spike only area, but like has been said already it will make the lt. naches unit a very tough hunt for big bull guys, espiecially becuase the forest service has shoved all of the motorized users into that area too. but the only bright spot is that there are some nice areas where you can still get away from roads....Over all I think it's going to basically ruin one of the best bull units in the state. Typical of our game dept...go for the quick dollars and not manage for the long run :bash:
:yeah: yep.
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this topic got me fire up so I wrote the following letter to the game dept. Probably won't do any good, but just had to say it.
To whom it may concern,
I am extemely concerned about a few issues including the proposed changes to the current hunting rules regarding archery elk hunting. What is the reasoning behind making units 352-356 spike only for archery. The average success rate for archery is very low, so it can't be from over harvest. If you think that the overall herd population is low in that area, your crazy. I spend 200+ days a year in the mountains around chinook pass including those units and there are a lot of elk up there. Way more than you think there are because your serveys are very inaccurate. This year in particular a lot of elk never even moved down out of the higher elevations due to lack of snow.
Next, making 346 open for spikes and cow during early archery is an absolutely horrible idea. What is the reason for this? That unit is one of the best big bull areas in entire state and you are going to ruin this hunt by putting the general season hunters in there with the bull hunters. If anything, you should be increasing the number of big bull tags. There are tons of big bulls up there. During archery season, I usually call in 5-8 different big bulls per day!
Next, why on earth are you taking away another goat tag from the bumping unit? The goats are doing excellent on Chinook pass, there are definetly way more goats than you guys think there are up there. I can take you up from my house and within 5 minutes show you 30 goats. You don't even fly that area in your surveys. Mr. Rice's study said there is a population of approximatly 3800 goats in this state(which is very inaccurate) and your harvest goals are to havest 1%. Well, I'm no mathmatician, but 1% of 3800 is 38 tags, not 15! I know one of your goals is to reduce the number of nannys taken, well your 2008 havest data says that 5 nannys were taken....so how do you ruduce that? Easy. You make the goat tags OUTFITTER tags. That way you have trained proffessionals determining sex, and you would actually be helping to stimulate the economy.
Next, the handling of the sheep issue in the Yakima River canyon was horrible. Why didn't you let the guys with max sheep points harvest those animals? I know some personally who would have used all of their points and paid upwards of $10,000 to harvest a ram. That would have be huge for the sportsman of this state, instead of all the money that WE have raised to help the sheep through our tags sales and through WFNAWS being wasted, you could have actually made money to help the sheep and reduced the number of hunters with max points. The quote in the Yakima Herald saying that the game department felt that the terrain was to rugged for hunters made me laugh. I'd take anyone from the department out hiking any day, and we'll see who the terrain is to rugged for.
Next, the wolves. Take a lesseon from Idaho. I've hunted Idaho a lot of times, but I won't anymore. The wolves have absolutely ruined the hunting in that state. Keep in mind who pays your salaries and funds the game department. Hunters! Yep that's right the hunters are the ones who pay for everything, and we don't want wolves! The wolves will ruin the hunting in this state within 3 years which in turn will greatly decrease the amount of revenue that the game department generates from hunting. If that happens you will all be looking for jobs, just ask the folks in Idaho, they are polishing up their resumes right now.
I apologize if some of my comments seem harsh, but I'm one of many hunters in this state who are very frustrated. I've been hunting in Washington for 25+ years and I'm very worried about the direction of the management of the hunting in this state. Thank you for you time.
Signed,
A frustrated hunter.
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I also wrote this letter to the director and the region three director. Please read mine and send it as well. Maybe if they get enough letters they will change their mind.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,45331.msg547965/topicseen.html#new (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,45331.msg547965/topicseen.html#new)
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Well put guy's! Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears!
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Don't fool yourselves their minds are made up, it doesn't matter what you write, they will do what they want to do.
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good post norse :) except for the outfitter thing :bdid:
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Don't fool yourselves their minds are made up, it doesn't matter what you write, they will do what they want to do.
True, but better then sitting back and do nothing
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It is better than doing nothing. I gave them my opinion, though I doubt it will change their minds. The comment period is for PR purposes.
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Don't fool yourselves their minds are made up, it doesn't matter what you write, they will do what they want to do.
That is not true. You can't succeed if you don't try. Last year the WDFW changed a number of their proposals due to members like us voicing our concerns and opinions. It only takes a few moments to cut and paste the letter. And it is well worth the effort. Or you can sit back and do nothing. Just don't complain when the WDFW changes things that you don't agree with. It's kind of like when people complain about our President that didn't vote. You only have yourself to blame.
Not trying to pick on you hughjorgan. Just saying when people say things like that then nothing positive comes of it.
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I sent in my e-mail and thoughts referencing other letters. It cant hurt. If this means that much to most of us the least we can do is shoot a e-mail or letter off. >:(
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Please take time and send in your opinions to the WDFW - It might not help, but IT CAN'T HURT.
I have been hunting these areas for more than 18 years and I believe there are MORE elk now than anytime in the past. I get into elk just about every day of my hunt and so do the 6+ guys I hunt with. We also have been waiting YEARS for the Peaches draw, which could now get totally screwed up :bash: :bash:
IMHO this is all about money. I wish they would just leave the areas alone, leave the draw system alone, and if they "need" more money, charge me more - but don't mess up the one thing I spend all year looking forward too!
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There is hope, last year they talked about opening GMU 101 for late whitetail, it never happend because of the out cry by sportsman.
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There is hope, last year they talked about opening GMU 101 for late whitetail, it never happend because of the out cry by sportsman.
Thanks teacherman. I couldn't remember which unit the WDFW changed their proposals on because of the out cry of sportsman. Thanks. So to all you negative nancy's. There's an example of change.
To be honest with the WDFW. I don't think they put much thought into this. I think they saw a decrease in cow numbers in Goose Prairie. THey cut cow tags and the archery antlerless hunts because most cows are harvested by the archers. This solved problem #1. Then to fix problem #2 they glanced on the map and opened the closest GMU closed to archers. Bam solved problem #2. Probably took about .2 seconds of thought. If we send enough letters like the one I wrote then they WILL change it.
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Not sure if you guys caught the thread a while back, but somebody said that they were proposing to change goose prairie to spike only, so I think the WDFW has been thinking about doing this for a while. I don't think they took all of two seconds to make this decision. This has probably been in the works for quite a few months. Write your letters, like people said, it won't hurt. But IMO these proposals are pretty much set in stone.
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There is hope, last year they talked about opening GMU 101 for late whitetail, it never happend because of the out cry by sportsman.
That is a fact! I saw the original proposal and was pist as hell as I'am now about 346. It did get removed and I hunted 101 this year. Saw no hunters and no deer due to the winter kill from the last two years. They did change there mind though! Get the calls and letters going.
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I am kind of split on this decision. On one side it will definately reduce the pressure on the herd in those units. I used to hunt the wilderness area and rarely saw anyone. Now there are plenty of hunters in there. The Nile unit is a war zone from Sept- Dec it crazy how many guys are in there. As for the little Naches thats a big rough area and it is full of motor cycles during the early season. You really need to get off the beaten path. I quit hunting the bumping/nile units in early season because it was just too crowded.
Personally I hope that this will thin the bowhunters out. I may get some flack over that comment but it's true. I think that anyone should be alowed to hunt anyway they want but there are a ton of guys out there that have no business hunting with a bow. Only because they don't take the time to be proficeint with their equipment. So on the other side of this I hope that it discourages those that fit this mold to try something else. It may be off topic but kind of ties in.
I would like to see Washington be more like other states. lessen the amount of units in the state and then allow quotas for each unit for over the counter tags. When the amount of tags for that unit is reached no more tags issued. That may piss a lot of people off but it would allow for the management of each herd by limitting or increasing opportunities. Spread the hunters out. Quite frankly I don't see how any spike can survive the bumping/nile and Behtel barage of the 4 months of war zone. As it stands now I bet 40% of all elk hunters in this state hunt 10% of the elk population areas.
This state does need to do something. It does not manage it's resources very well at all. No matter what they do they will piss someone off. Now they are talking about combining WDFW with other government agencies due to the budget shortfalls, so we will have more influence from non user groups as to how, when and where we hunt. It's going to get worse before it gets better. Just my .02.
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How many of you guys have drawn the Peaches tag and if so how many times?
If WDFW wants to manage the herds properly with their health in mind and budget secondary they should go for mandatory draws for all elk units. Over the counter would turn into one of those Walmart xmas sale trampling scenes with all the people in this state.
I keep hoping they will split the Peaches bull tag into two tags, one draw for Taneum and one for LN. I know where plenty of bulls hang out in Taneum but I always have to compete for the coveted tag.
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Some good points Matt
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How many of you guys have drawn the Peaches tag and if so how many times?
If WDFW wants to manage the herds properly with their health in mind and budget secondary they should go for mandatory draws for all elk units. Over the counter would turn into one of those Walmart xmas sale trampling scenes with all the people in this state.
I keep hoping they will split the Peaches bull tag into two tags, one draw for Taneum and one for LN. I know where plenty of bulls hang out in Taneum but I always have to compete for the coveted tag.
I've never drawn Peaches tag (and do put in for it), but like the idea that we have a quality bull hunt available and it's a great hunt to put in for. I've hunted the Taneum side - and walked in a long ways, but would rather hunt LN if I draw. The Taneum side has all the people...although I suppose that it doesn't matter now.
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Norsepeak,
FANTASTIC letter! It was backed up with solid facts and good math. I hope they take you up on your offer to take them out. 346 is the best tag in the state. I've drawn it twice and never harvested a bull......I got to picky and passed up too many smaller bulls. But, GREAT hunts! I am finally starting to really believe that the people who represent WDFW either have no clue or their hands are tied to where they are forced to bite their tongue.
Gringo
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I may get some flack over that comment but it's true. I think that anyone should be alowed to hunt anyway they want but there are a ton of guys out there that have no business hunting with a bow. Only because they don't take the time to be proficeint with their equipment. So on the other side of this I hope that it discourages those that fit this mold to try something else. It may be off topic but kind of ties in.
:yeah:
All these Primos shows showing how easy it is to call them in and everyone tags there bull/buck has generated a ton of new bowhunters. At work we had four-five guys that bow hunted. We have 30+ now. Most have no business doing it. They aren't even successful with a gun and now they watch these shows and think they are going to get a ten yard shot. Most don't shoot until a week before the season if at all!
I've drawn the rifle Little Naches and harvested a 336 bull after seeing many others while scouting. I also brought my father-in-law in there 2 years prior and harvested a nice 6X6. Both on opening morning.
I sent my e-mail to the department yesterday and they must be getting hammered because my response was that because of the overwhelming about of e-mails, it would be 5 days before I would recieve a response. Keep them going!
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I've had peaches tag twice and bumping tag once....ate both peaches tags and shot a nice 6pt in bumping unit...hate to see peaches go general tag, but it would make the big bull tag in bumping a lot more fun...
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Making the Bumping and Nile a spike only archery tag would make the Goose Prairie tag premier. Just my thoought. There is always late season for the cows.
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BARC3 you received a response too. WTF WDFW I have yet to get a response. Rick gets a phone call and I get jack. Okay it is official Operation Bombard them with the same letter is now a go.
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I think the new "pay to camp" sites they are constructing in the Little Naches area may have something to do with it too. This state is all about the money. I bet they will make plenty with most the archers now going to 346 instead of 356 & 352 to hunt. :twocents:
KID
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I think the new "pay to camp" sites they are constructing in the Little Naches area may have something to do with it too. This state is all about the money. I bet they will make plenty with most the archers now going to 346 instead of 356 & 352 to hunt. :twocents:
Very unlikely, since the state doesn't own any land in GMU 346. All the public land there is National Forest. How would the state get money from people camping on National Forest?
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Bobcat, You don't think that they are in bed together, :rolleyes: if you know what I mean. Ever here of caveats. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
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Hello,
I also recieved a reply from my letter that I sent. he writes the following:
Dear Mr. Blair,
I’ve attached a summary of the some of the information we used to develop our 2010 season recommendations. I hope it helps provide a better understanding of the data and the trends we’re trying to deal with.
I’m sure conditions will change if the recommendations are adopted, but those early archery permits in the Yakima will still be great to draw. I’ve hunted early seasons in all of those units myself, either with my own bow or muzzleloader or bugling for friends who were lucky enough to draw. Having cow and spike hunters in the woods does impact the hunt, but generally just closer to the roads. Anyway that’s my experience in several parts of Washington and in Idaho and Montana.
The Fish and Wildlife Commission will be taking public input on all of the season recommendations in Olympia.
Thanks for you message.
Anyways, Thought I would share the response.
Kind Regards,
Brianb231
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Bobcat, You don't think that they are in bed together
No, I don't.
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I could be wrong here, but I don't see a lot of cow hunters going in deep into the Little Naches to hunt cows, so I think that a guy with a bull tag could still have a good hunt.
Apparently you have never been in 356 during the early season. There are not many opportunities for archery hunters to get away from the crowds and when you can't draw a branch antlered permit you end up going where the elk are. For me that has been deep in the wilderness. This decision by the WDFW blows and mostly because they are still giving out 40 cow tags between modern firearm and muzzie and ZERO to archery for 356. Dumbfounded and depressed.
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Hey Dreaminbig,
That was the WDFW statement, not mine. I have been Hunting 356 for 20 years. I know what it is like.
I am just passin in what they tried to placate me with.
Regards,
Brian
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Bobcat, Better wake up then. :chuckle: I know firsthand how government/public agencies "work" together for user monies.
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Hey Dreaminbig,
That was the WDFW statement, not mine. I have been Hunting 356 for 20 years. I know what it is like.
I am just passin in what they tried to placate me with.
Regards,
Brian
Hey Brian, I was quoting you. I agree that the permit will be a good draw but good luck. In the meantime losing opportunities to harvest meat in the wilderness while modern and muzzie still get cow permits is a tough pill to swallow. I have hunted 356 for the past 8 years (all without drawing a bull permit) and there are plenty of animals in there to support anterless harvest for bowhunters.
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Hey Dreaminbig,
That was the WDFW statement, not mine. I have been Hunting 356 for 20 years. I know what it is like.
I am just passin in what they tried to placate me with.
Regards,
Brian
Hey Brian, I was quoting you. I agree that the permit will be a good draw but good luck. In the meantime losing opportunities to harvest meat in the wilderness while modern and muzzie still get cow permits is a tough pill to swallow. I have hunted 356 for the past 8 years (all without drawing a bull permit) and there are plenty of animals in there to support anterless harvest for bowhunters.
Yes, I agree... I dint understand that Cow permit still being available for Rifle and ML. It is a headscratcher!!! :bash:
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This is probably stupid to say, but the cows breed during archery season and then get killed in ML & Modern seasons. ???
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This is probably stupid to say, but the cows breed during archery season and then get killed in ML & Modern seasons. ???
Some, but not all.
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Having hunted Bumping for the past two years and going in on horseback, I was amazed at how many people were in there 8 miles or more deep. For the first three days of 09, I ran into people who weren't in our group. Some folks noted they've hunted it for many years and the number of hunters seemed to be growing. Also met a couple of guys who headed out after two days because of all the people up there.....
While it's not the Lewis River unit during Modern, it was still plenty busy. Guess I better start working on alternative plans.
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Having hunted Bumping for the past two years and going in on horseback, I was amazed at how many people were in there 8 miles or more deep. For the first three days of 09, I ran into people who weren't in our group. Some folks noted they've hunted it for many years and the number of hunters seemed to be growing. Also met a couple of guys who headed out after two days because of all the people up there.....
While it's not the Lewis River unit during Modern, it was still plenty busy. Guess I better start working on alternative plans.
I am not 100% but i would bet you will find more people in the wildernesss up above Rimrock. I have been to the trail heads in both Bumping and Rimrock unit, and seen way more poeple camped, parked, etc around Rimrock (Conrad Meadows, Tieton Meadows) then Bumping.
I have many people tell m ethat Conred Meadows was a great place to hunt (and propbly is) but when i got there, there waer so many Camps, hourse trailers, walk in hunt, it was a big surprise for me so i just whent to a different area.
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Having hunted Bumping for the past two years and going in on horseback, I was amazed at how many people were in there 8 miles or more deep. For the first three days of 09, I ran into people who weren't in our group. Some folks noted they've hunted it for many years and the number of hunters seemed to be growing. Also met a couple of guys who headed out after two days because of all the people up there.....
While it's not the Lewis River unit during Modern, it was still plenty busy. Guess I better start working on alternative plans.
SAme thing we found this year in Bumping, 7.5/8 miles in and seen almost as many hunters as on the road in the Nile.
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I've read the response of WDFW for the changes in regulation this year regarding the 346. Bottom line: there are too many hunters in 352 and 356 to support the big shift to the 346. That area should have remained a bull tag only area. They said cow #s have decreased yet have still issued the same or more cow tags for general rifle and muzz. If they hoped to accomplish keeping cow #'s up, why not have the same regulations accross the board? I have hunted the 356 for 20 years. There is no doubt these regs are due to a low count of cows on feeding stations in a mild winter year (according to personal friend, biologist who worked with state for yakima herd). The problem is they dont take time to survey an accurate # of elk for any area of the state and DO NOT take into account that elk migration is based on food availability in harsh or mild winters. We should all copy and paste the letters in here and send them off along with a steady bombardment of emails to WDFW. It will only get worse if we don't. What a mess. I guess its time to hunt in some other state and stop paying salaries of IDIOTS in WDFW. >:(
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:chuckle:
Nice first post.
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Is that anotherone of your aliases, that really sounds like you talking. :chuckle:
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I was in denial about their proposals until I saw the regs. I am sickened. At least I can apply for a cow permit again and not have to worry about losing all my points. At least that's a plus.
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Yeha just think all those that were only applying for bulls are applying for those cow tags too. :chuckle:
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This past year was the first in a while where nearly every cow I saw in the 356 had a calf. WDFW doesn't have a clue when it comes to actual #'s of cows in the 356. I think the population has increased in that area. Its not easy hunting and you have to get back in there a ways to see them but they are there in large numbers. I bet if any archers actually decide to hunt the early season in 356 or 352, they will witness indians taking plenty of cows from the area.
Just think, Labor Day weekend rolls around and every off road motor bike, 4-wheelin, vehicle in the state along with every archer who hunted 352 and 356 will be condensed into a cluster F of early season nightmarish hell. Thanks to WDFW, one of the most protected areas will now become a battle zone dissaster. Quality Hunt my arse! Who wants a bull permit there now after everyone chases elk around for 2 weeks? On the possitive side, this will eventually disperse a massive number hunters to other parts of the state, and they will be forced to learn other areas. What other choice do we have? It's a shame there is such mismanagement for hunter who annually see fee increases for such little ROI. In 2008 there was a 23% reduction of hunters who purchased licenses in the state of washington across the board (archery, muzz, modern). This number I know will only increase because its simply becoming more and more apparent that liberals can't manage anything. Its more worth it to buy an out of state tag in another state and stop paying salaries of WDWF.
Hunters think this is bad, just wait until the fishing regulations come out for washington. Tribes have one hand on the pen that writes the regs and in their other wrapped around the neck of WDFW. It is apparent that they will be hunting in the now less crowded 356 and 352 for elk. Why not? A bigger area with no sportsmen and lots of elk. One of these days we should cripple them both by not purchasing licenses at all and start excersizing our rights, maybe just drift back in time and play cowboys and Indians for real again. Write letters, send frequent emails and make phone calls if possible. It will only get worse. Where is the reasoning? Oh ya, I forgot, liberals don't use reasoning in Olympia. They are only concerned with increasing revenue, as they clearly stated on the website (you will see it when you apply for your permits).
I feel bad for individuals who have to explain this to hunters when they buy their licenses and permits. I advise all hunters to check the regs online and read through carefully before you buy your license. You may just regret it later when trying to plan a hunt. This will be my last season in this state after 20 plus years of hunting here, just not worth the time and would rather support a quality management program in another state. >:( :bash: :bash: :bash:
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Are we in this for the meat or the horns??
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meat first, horns second
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well if they wanted to save some elk numbers in the nile and bumping they could of just closed the late season..........Whoevers idea it was to open the best quality hunt this state has to offer needs to go back to school and learn the numbers again. Now theres gonna be another unit in trouble....Sad Sad :'( And oh yeah i drew the archery bull tag last year up there Thank Lord i got to experience before this anyhow all i have to say is could of shot cows everyday and i was there for 12 days. Didnt score on the bull tag but it wasnt for the lack of bulls thats for sure. See you all up there..
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One of my hunting partners got drawn for this hunt, and I got drawn for another area. Been putting in for quite a few years now and it seems it was almost a waste of 6 points. From the sounds of it he will have plenty of company, and hope it works out well for him. Personally I will be avoiding the area.
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ya had 2 buddies that had that tag last year. had a great time. This year will be another story. I am sure if you get away from the roads you will be fine but there will be a butt load of people.
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im debaiting on rimrock or lil naches... figuring lil naches is going to be packed since we cant hunt for cows in the bumping or nile. but got a couple weeks to decide on where i want to go
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I'm brand new to this site and I thank you all as this is full of good information. Long ago I used to hunt LN during modern rifle with my father. I have been putting in for Peaches Ridge bull tags and I have been a loser for 9 years. I now have 10 points !!!! I'm planning on heading up to LN for the early hunt, can't leave until the morning of the 6th, probably won't be a bare spot of ground to throw down a sleeping bag.
I know most of Little Naches very well, but have never been out to Cougar Valley, Crow Lake, etc. Is that a good place to get away from the crowds, if it is possible????
What can I expect out there??? My plan is to have a base camp in the zoo/circus/whatever, and backpack in for a couple days at a time. Base camp is for the older hunters in my group who can't do the backpack.
Help!!!
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Well Guys,
I new this year was going to be a bit different beings how they changed the Spike and Cow to 346. BUT TODAY IS WEDNESDAY THE 1st! I was over in the Naches setting up Elk camp. I thought I was really early in doing this. WRONG.. Sad to say that Little NAches area had elk hunters rolling in all day today. Not Jeepers or motorcycle weekend campers.....Hunters. The area we have been scouting all summer. Had a tent set up in the area just to give the illusion that they were going to be hunting there. Unless you guys that are heading up the little Naches area to hunt are going to go deep far away from the roads, you may want to consider a backup plan. I am not even playing with you. Just my observation of today.
Good luck Guys!