Post by: wackmaster on February 01, 2008, 06:29:51 PM
Post by: steeleywhopper on February 01, 2008, 06:45:42 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on February 01, 2008, 06:48:16 PM
The intention of putting people that are willing to go the extra mile in learning, passing up and helping others is good, especially in areas that are populated with people and critters.
But I don't like the fact that people that have already done the work and passed the tests are being kicked out for things that did not eliminate them in the beginning. I also think they should be grandfathered in, and then take the new tests/classes when it is time to renew. If you screw up in between time, then your out.
I also see this as the begining of something bad, like making the hound/depredation hunters and trappers required to do AHE or background checks.
Post by: Cougeyes on February 01, 2008, 06:57:04 PM
Post by: Slider on February 01, 2008, 08:28:11 PM
Post by: rackattack on February 01, 2008, 08:38:44 PM
Post by: wackmaster on February 01, 2008, 08:47:35 PM
Post by: tmike on February 01, 2008, 09:39:18 PM
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What does everyone seriously think.Should there even be a AHE ,or should they open seasons and pemits to the avid hunter.So if you eliminate AHE how are you going to define an Avid hunter? Run background checks? Just playing devils advocate here. Sounds to me like they are trying to change the way it has been for hopefully the better.
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Also 6 guy's night time hunting in tampico shot a 5*6 bull elk and one of them were a master hunter.The are all getting convicted.How can you make sure the other 5 who weren't AHE wouldn't fall under the definition of avid hunter. I think it's pretty complex. The idea is to improve land owner relations so the Average hunter isn't continually locked out of good areas like they are now. AHE, no AHE, landowners are tired of being crapped on! Instead of hearing about what is wrong now or what somebody did, let's here some ideas to make it better.The first thing I think should happen is to manage our wildlife for biological reasons not political ones. What do you think?
Post by: ICEMAN on February 01, 2008, 10:44:45 PM
I know, I am an ass. I also do not relish the idea of another layer for wildlife to screw up either... but hell, they already will not knowingly issue tags to deadbeat dads....why stop with them.....
Post by: wackmaster on February 01, 2008, 11:08:08 PM
Post by: tmike on February 02, 2008, 07:00:58 AM
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I pick up trash,turn people in breaking the law,I shoot my guns and go to 3-d shoots alot,I do my best to help conserve nature and the wild.Does that make me any less of a person or hunter.Hell No! I do the same thing. Does it make me less of a person or hunter because I went through the program?
Post by: ICEMAN on February 02, 2008, 07:04:06 AM
.....I pick up trash,turn people in breaking the law,I shoot my guns and go to 3-d shoots alot,I do my best to help conserve nauture and the wild.Does that make me any less of a person or hunter.I do not need a card to show people that I am a ethical hunter.Nor should I have to to get equal hunting rights.
I totally agree. Nothing splits up hunters more, than one group getting an advantage over another group. In my opinion, (unless you have violated major laws in the past) I think that all hunter groups should have equal access to our beloved wildlife resources. Personally, I think that the AHE program makes alot of snottynosed hunters out of normal guys.
Post by: klickriverchromer on February 02, 2008, 07:27:50 AM
Post by: Ray on February 02, 2008, 07:31:25 AM
Post by: Head-shot on February 02, 2008, 07:32:53 AM
who needs master hunters to thin herds, thought the indians were good enough at ruining animal numbers.
Ha ha ha, lmao, stoke that fire man :camp:
Post by: wackmaster on February 02, 2008, 11:45:09 AM
Post by: kirkl on February 02, 2008, 03:48:53 PM
Post by: robodad on February 02, 2008, 04:45:27 PM
Post by: Crunchy on February 02, 2008, 07:08:59 PM
Post by: tmike on February 02, 2008, 08:06:20 PM
Post by: Crunchy on February 02, 2008, 09:06:01 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 02, 2008, 09:14:28 PM
Post by: tmike on February 02, 2008, 09:44:08 PM
Post by: Crunchy on February 02, 2008, 09:48:06 PM
Post by: tmike on February 02, 2008, 09:57:06 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 02, 2008, 10:12:38 PM
(What ever happened to that blind hunt that wildlife had....? Come to think of it, nevermind, I do not want to know. )
Post by: high country on February 03, 2008, 06:51:13 AM
OK first and foremost the only people the ahe discriminates against is those who have been caught being dirtbags in the past, and those who have not completed a hunters education.....so to me it is rediculous to say the program is un fair.
youth and disabled hunts are surely a possibilty in some areas, but most areas open to damage hunts are on private land. I am currently in a season that is a damage hunt and MOST of the hunt area is well within 300yds of peoples homes. we are only allowed to use limited range wepons. I would NEVER allow a youth to be shooting his gun that close to my house.....period. I want only people who have gone the extra mile and even then I would be nervous.
there seems to be a bunch of people that think the damage hunts are about hunters getting elk. the fact is the hunt is about elk being kept away from private land. elk are hard on crops and fences. I suppose we could raise the cost of a license and tags to $700 and kill the program off, we could then just pay the farmers for their damage......how does that sound?
coments like mikes about the 40 years to be a master is pretty rediculous, heck old england thought the the world was flat till young columbus proved them wrong, bad expierience equals bad habits....time in the woods might teach you alot, but who's to say it is leagal or applicable to hunting in someones backyard.
the idea of a limited draw.....imagine if you just burned your points on a depred hunt and found that it was cancelled for any number of reasons....how pissed would you be? you would demand your points back....right? that happens to ahe every year.
one thing I would like to see is the 3911 boundrys changed. it seems pretty stupid to have the state park included in the hunt area and then site guys for hunting there. I bet those guys get off in court or the area gets modified.
I would be in favor of increased fines for ahe violations of any blatency. I can understand a guy shooting a critter a couple minutes early/late.....clocks vary, but to shoot an elk on private land w/o permission should be a huge fine/loss of equipment.
Post by: Ironhead on February 03, 2008, 07:44:45 AM
Surely you jest. Old timers who had an eternity to hunt deer thru October, shoot any bull elk, had a "doe day" every year, cold claim gunny sacks of razor clams, fish for salmon and ling and just about any other species nearly unregulated. No points to earn, minimal tag fees... I am not in the mood to give special priviliges to guys that already had it.
Pretty harsh on the seniors Iceman, You feel your more deserving than a 75 year old man or woman that has a hard time getting around in the hills. Some still have the passion but don't have health on their side, I think they are more entitled than alot of others. I hope your not making the rules when I get old. :o
Post by: tmike on February 03, 2008, 09:46:31 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 03, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
Pretty harsh on the seniors Iceman, You feel your more deserving than a 75 year old man or woman that has a hard time getting around in the hills. Some still have the passion but don't have health on their side, I think they are more entitled than alot of others. I hope your not making the rules when I get old. :o
To be honest with you, I have seen a few too many elderly folks in the hills who should not even be there. I have seen poor shots taken from guys who could not see very well, trucks in ditches from guys who couldn't negotiate the roads due to poor depth perception and slow reflexes, game not pursued after the shot taken, and game wasted and left behind by guys whos knees or hearts were so bad they gave up. ***Even young healthy guys who behave like this as well.
Earlier I did not really finish my point, I will try here...My point was; that many of the older generation had great opportunity in the past, and I do not feel that they should continue to reap the benefit of a shrinking state resource, when at the same time we are trying to encourage the youth to begin hunting.
You use the word "entitled" in your reply. No one is entitled to wild game.
Back to the topic, If landowners are really all that concerned about the deer and elk wrecking their places, and if we are going to allow them to be killed "immediatley" maybe wildlife should just do the deed, and donate the meat to charity, keep the hunters out of it all together. Then the hunter groups will stop griping about each other and can focus all of our grief on DOW. :dunno:
Post by: dbllunger on February 03, 2008, 10:51:58 AM
Post by: M_ray on February 03, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
And what better opportunity For youth, disabled and Seniors than the second AHE tag ... that's the best idea I have heard yet.
I think the boundary's need to be changed if they are going to call it a damage hunt how much damage are elk doing on their traditional wintering grounds near the Ginko forrest for instance?
Post by: M_ray on February 03, 2008, 12:00:19 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 03, 2008, 12:58:15 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 03, 2008, 02:01:54 PM
M_ray, good point, not all senior hunters have hunted, didn't consider this in the equation.
Ghost Hunter. From what I have seen and read, AHE is a great way to help hunters gather or refine skills and knowldege about the outdoors, wildlife and hunting. Nothing wrong with that. But, apparently some of the foks who have passed the requirements, have taken advantage of their designation and wandered outside of the "boundaries" of what is considered ethical or legal. Probably only a fraction of bad apples in the crate...
I am guaranteed to lose this arguement, sort of like suggesting we change the pay out on social security for seniors. Real Popular Discussion. (Let the ass whooping begin!)
Post by: M_ray on February 03, 2008, 02:33:57 PM
Post by: mossback91 on February 03, 2008, 03:07:50 PM
Iceman, no A$$ whooping here and it's more of a debate than an argument. But I will agree with you that I would like to see the youth and disabled get first priority. The youths are our stewards of the future and we need them to fall in love with the resource as we have and have great first experiences to back that up. And lets face it you and I have a great advantage over a disabled person ... so you see we can come to an agreement of sorts! ;)Yeah soemtimes youth get discouraged when they cant get a deer not saying thats what its all about but it helps create the love for it. I know and hunt with a disabled hunter and he is at a major disadvantage but still wont get the disabled hunter permit. I sort of was a disabled hunter this year not terrible but it changes the whole game plan alot.
Post by: dbllunger on February 03, 2008, 03:37:04 PM
Post by: Slenk on February 03, 2008, 03:56:37 PM
Just what we need a bunch of gray tops hunting from their trucks.
I take ofence of your remark I am one of those gray top you are refering to and I DAMN SURE DO NOT HUNT FROM MY TRUCK or anyone elses truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I probably have been hunting longer than you have been alive!!!!!!!!!
POD at your remark!
Slenk
Post by: Slider on February 03, 2008, 03:59:01 PM
Post by: high country on February 03, 2008, 06:05:59 PM
Just trying to brainstorm some ideas here high country Sheesh! :) Mostly what I've heard in all these AHE threads are whats wrong not how can we fix it. At least you had some ideas. How about the program is so well run that when an alfalfa hunt is available disabled or kids get priority, when it's an urban hunt, hunters that have seriously proven primitive weapon proficiency get priority. On all the other damage type hunts the hunters need to be cycled through. In other words if I shoot a cow, you and everyone else would at least get a call offering the chance, if you can't make it you go to the end of the line. Now I'll go get my bullet proof undies on and wait for the flack! :guns:
the "take a number" approach could work.......BUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both. most land owners with elk problems want the elk gone, but don't want to be pestered at 5am every saturday....it's a tough answer no matter how you look at it.
Post by: tmike on February 03, 2008, 07:23:42 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on February 03, 2008, 07:44:35 PM
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BUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both
They already have that in some locations.
Post by: high country on February 03, 2008, 08:13:24 PM
QuoteBUT then there has to be a babysitter to watch the animals and call the hunters. with the ahe program the dept just relies on the hunters to do both
They already have that in some locations.
true, but the huntmasters are volunteers. if we revamped to require youth on fence side "A" and general hunters on fence side "B" there would need to be a representative of the dept to make the calls and decisions. you cannot depend on voulenteers to be there every day of the season.
Post by: brutus1 on February 03, 2008, 08:28:04 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on February 03, 2008, 08:41:45 PM
Shawn
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 09, 2008, 08:33:17 AM
Is this optional or required? Certainly would be a road trip for me.
Post by: tmike on February 09, 2008, 09:05:34 AM
Post by: bearhunter59 on February 09, 2008, 11:06:44 AM