Post by: jackelope on March 16, 2010, 08:25:05 AM
2010 hunting rules, wildlife-damage issues
OLYMPIA - Hunters got a preview of changes proposed in special-hunt permit drawings and new hunting regulations for the fall 2010 season at a public meeting held here March 12-13 by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission.
State wildlife managers also briefed the commission and others in attendance on new proposals for addressing public concerns about property damage and other conflicts related to Washington's wildlife.
The commission, which sets policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), allotted time for public comments on all three issues as a prelude to voting on those proposals at public meetings scheduled over the next two months.
On a separate issue, the commission directed WDFW to analyze options for increasing recreational crabbing opportunities in Puget Sound. With a stated goal of adopting a new crab-allocation policy by October, commissioners established a timeline for assessing the effects of various fishing options, meeting with advisory boards and providing opportunities for public review of their plans.
Special-hunt permit drawings
In recent years, some hunters have expressed dissatisfaction with the selection process used to issue special-hunt permits, which give successful applicants hunting options beyond those authorized by a general hunting license.
Many of those frustrations stem from the fact that all special-hunt permits are randomly drawn from the same pool of applications, said Dave Ware, WDFW game manager. As a result, applicants often face a choice between applying for popular deer and elk hunts or settling for less-popular hunts with better odds of being drawn, he said.
Under a new plan Ware outlined for the commission, WDFW would create separate applications for seven different categories of popular deer and elk permits, ranging from buck or bull hunts to senior permits. Hunters could apply in as many categories as they choose.
"This plan is designed to give hunters more options for getting the special permits they really want," said Ware, noting that the proposal was developed with broad public input and support from the WDFW's Game Management Advisory Committee.
Under the new plan, "points" accrued by hunters toward special permits in previous years would be applied to each of the new permit categories created under the new plan, Ware said. All funds raised by the sale of additional permit applications would be used to expand hunter access to private lands.
The commission is scheduled to take action on WDFW's proposal at a meeting set April 9-10 in Leavenworth. The proposed rule changes are contained in WAC 232-28-291 on the department's website at http://bit.ly/d3a41n (http://bit.ly/d3a41n) .
Changes in hunting regulations
WDFW is also proposing some new hunting rules for the upcoming season, based on changes in state game populations observed since the current three-year hunting plan was adopted last year. Proposed changes for the fall season include new conservation measures and hunting opportunities for species such as deer, elk, black bear, cougar and small game. Key actions include:
Deer: Significant reductions are proposed in the harvest of antlerless white-tailed deer in the Selkirk region, hard-hit by two harsh winters, and on the northern end of the Olympic Peninsula, where the herd continues to have low reproduction rates.
Elk: General hunting opportunities for antlerless elk would be reduced on the Yakima herd, although new hunting opportunities would be allowed in Game Management Unit 346.
Black bear: Fall hunting seasons would be delayed in parts of northeast Washington, south central Washington and the Okanogan region to reduce harvest and conserve female bears. Spring hunting opportunities would be expanded in northeastern Washington and in private timberlands west of Centralia to allow the harvest of more males.
Hunting equipment: Archers and muzzleloaders would no longer be required to possess a concealed weapons license to carry a handgun for personal protection in the field.
Specific proposals are posted on the commission's website at http://bit.ly/d3a41n (http://bit.ly/d3a41n) under "March 5 revisions." The commission is scheduled to take action on WDFW's proposals for the 2010 hunting season at its April 9-10 meeting in Leavenworth.
In a related issue, the commission denied a petition to amend existing white-tailed buck deer seasons in northeastern Washington by adopting special antler restrictions for hunts in Game Management Units 117 and 121. The commission did, however, commit to a public review process and consideration of the proposal for the 2011-12 hunting seasons.
Controlling property damage
Another proposal presented to the commission would give landowners more flexibility to prevent and address property damage caused by wildlife.
A new approach proposed by WDFW would encourage landowners to forge agreements with the department that set out a clear course of action for dealing with damages caused by wildlife on their property. Those rules would establish specific requirements for both lethal and non-lethal actions, and identify new sources of technical assistance for property owners.
Under the department's proposal, claims for crop damage would be paid only after an assessment by a professional crop insurance adjustor.
The commission is expected to take action on WDFW's proposal during a conference call scheduled May 7. The proposed "Wildlife Interaction Rules" are posted on the commission's website at http://bit.ly/db1aCT (http://bit.ly/db1aCT) .
Also at the meeting March 12-13 in Olympia, the commission:
Extended the current allocation policy for the non-tribal Columbia River summer chinook fishery by one year.
Received a briefing on 2010 salmon forecasts, conservation needs and fishing opportunities.
Approved the purchase of a 369-acre conservation easement and two properties to benefit wildlife in Okanogan County.
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 08:49:27 AM
Quote
"This plan is designed to give hunters more options for getting the special permits they really want," said Ware, noting that the proposal was developed with broad public input and support from the WDFW's Game Management Advisory Committee.
There was NO public input! We only found out about the plan on or about February 4th when they posted it on their website. >:( :bash:
Not only that, but the statement above by Dave Ware is a lie. There is no way it was designed "for getting the special permits they really want." It's obvious the only intent was to increase revenue. Which I don't have a problem with... I would rather they just kept it the way it was and increase the price of an application from $5 to $15.
Post by: Bob33 on March 16, 2010, 09:01:56 AM
Post by: Special T on March 16, 2010, 09:07:13 AM
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 09:07:31 AM
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 09:19:28 AM
Write the commission. They can still stop this in April.
I hope many people will write the commission and let them know what they think. I hope the commission will shut this thing down. I would love to see the look on Dave Ware's face if the commission votes NO......
This new draw system will do nothing to help the guys with max points trying to draw the most covetted permits.......it will actually probably reduce their chances of drawing. It will allow them to put in for the easier to draw permits, like antlerless permits, but is it really worth reduced odds of drawing the permit they want in order to be able to apply for antlerless?......I doubt it.
WDFW saying there has been lots of public input is a complete joke...... :ass:
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 09:34:41 AM
nd the biggest problem of all, is the fact that they lie and say the public was able to provide input, and that the public supports the changes.
How can they know that when the public has only known of the changes for 6 weeks ???
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 09:59:40 AM
Dave Ware, Game Division Manager, Wildlife Program david.ware@dfw.wa.gov 360-902-2509
(Dave is the person who presented a report on the proposed changes to the special permits at the meeting last Saturday.)
Jerry Nelson, Ph.D., Deer and Elk Section Manager, Wildlife Program jerry.nelson@dfw.wa.gov 360-902-2519
(Jerry gave the report on Deer and Elk General Seasons and Special Permits)
Fish and Wildlife Commission Office:
Phone (360) 902-2267
Email: commission@dfw.wa.gov
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 10:04:22 AM
Quote
Chair:
Miranda Wecker, Naselle
(Western Washington position, Pacific County)
Occupation: Director of the Marine Program, UW Olympic Natural Resources Center
Current Term: 01/01/2007 - 12/31/2012
Vice Chair:
Gary Douvia, Kettle Falls
(At-Large position, Ferry County)
Occupation: Financial consultant
Current Term: 01/15/2007 - 12/31/2012
Commission Members:
Dr. Kenneth Chew, Seattle
(Western Washington position, King County)
Occupation: Retired, Professor of fisheries
Current Term: 01/01/2005 - 12/31/2010
David Jennings, Olympia
(At-Large position, Thurston County)
Occupation: Environmental public health
Current Term: 06/18/2009 - 12/31/2014
Conrad Mahnken, Ph.D., Bainbridge Island
(At-Large position, Kitsap County)
Occupation: Retired, fisheries biologist
Current Term: 11/04/2005 - 12/31/2010
George Orr, Spokane
(Eastern Washington position, Spokane County)
Occupation: Retired firefighter, former state legislator
Current Term: 08/08/2007 - 12/31/2010
Chuck Perry, Moses Lake
(Eastern Washington position, Grant County)
Occupation: Consultant, rangeland/grazing sustainability
Current Term: 01/01/2007 - 12/31/2012
Rolland Schmitten, Leavenworth
(Eastern Washington position, Chelan County)
Occupation: Marine Resources Consultant
Current Term: 06/18/2009 - 12/31/2014
Bradley Smith, Ph.D., Bellingham
(Western Washington position, Whatcom County)
Occupation: Dean, Huxley College of the Environment, Western Washington University
Current Term: 06/18/2009 - 12/31/2014
http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/members.html)
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 10:17:44 AM
Here is a list of the Commission members. You need to remember when you write your letters that these people don't necessarily know much, or even anything, about hunting. Just look at the occupations listed for each member:
:yeah:
I liked the guys from Spokane, Moses Lake, and Kettle Falls.........they seemed to like hunting and they had some good questions for Jerry Nelson at the meeting last weekend.
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 10:22:10 AM
Here is a list of the Commission members. You need to remember when you write your letters that these people don't necessarily know much, or even anything, about hunting. Just look at the occupations listed for each member:
:yeah:
I liked the guys from Spokane, Moses Lake, and Kettle Falls.........they seemed to like hunting and they had some good questions for Jerry Nelson at the meeting last weekend.
Right. The others seemed clueless or at least apathetic as they did not ask any questions...
Post by: Houndhunter on March 16, 2010, 10:53:27 AM
ya im sure :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 11:00:05 AM
"All funds raised by the sale of additional permit applications would be used to expand hunter access to private lands."
ya im sure :chuckle:
Yeah, another lie by the WDFW.
Post by: Bob33 on March 16, 2010, 11:01:06 AM
Be polite, be direct, and be brief. Ask the commission not to implement this until more extensive public input and debate has been allowed.
Post by: jackelope on March 16, 2010, 11:06:48 AM
If anyone is particularly good at writing this sort of letter and wants to form one up for everyone to "copy and paste" that might help. I hope that doesn't come across wrong, I have just found that others are a lot better at putting this stuff onto paper. I tend to be kind of a block when it comes to great writing skills. Not being lazy, just want the best odds of getting our point across...
:dunno:
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 11:08:38 AM
"All funds raised by the sale of additional permit applications would be used to expand hunter access to private lands."
ya im sure :chuckle:
Yeah, even if the plan is to use the funds for access, I don't trust them. What happens when they get some landowners to agree to allow access for payment of X amount of money? Then other landowners will want X amount of compensation for allowing access. Then people that already allow access for free will want a handout; and the snowball begins to roll down the hill. Then when the funds run out, and the landowners can't be paid, they will just close it down to public access and give access to the highest bidder. Funding access is a bad idea......... :bdid:
Post by: Houndhunter on March 16, 2010, 11:52:47 AM
Yeah, even if the plan is to use the funds for access, I don't trust them. What happens when they get some landowners to agree to allow access for payment of X amount of money? Then other landowners will want X amount of compensation for allowing access. Then people that already allow access for free will want a handout; and the snowball begins to roll down the hill. Then when the funds run out, and the landowners can't be paid, they will just close it down to public access and give access to the highest bidder. Funding access is a bad idea......... :bdid:
good point, i hated to see rayonier timber company last year start shutting gates and you now have to pay just to walk on their land and hunt. im not sure on exat numbers but i know you had to get a pretty big lease which wasnt cheap and pay a % for any matinence for the roads on your leased land
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 05:12:34 PM
Gotta give him credit for taking the time to reply to my letter.
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 05:16:08 PM
Quote
The bottom line is that thousands of folks have weighed in on the issue over the past couple of years. This is not new.
Also, the news release says that hunters will have more “options” not a greater chance of being drawn. Finally, the bottom line is that some folks like you with few points feel that spreading the points across all categories reduces their chance of drawing. There are a variety of reasons that folks have accumulated points, not just because they were holding out for bucks and bulls. Some just apply for ghost hunts every year. In the past, they could have decided to apply for antlerless permits. No one really knows what permits folks who have regularly applied for popular buck and bull hunts will apply for with the new categories. Had we chosen other ways to distribute points, I am certain we would have been criticized for them as well.
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 06:54:55 PM
:ass: :bs:
If they had decided to let the applicant choose what category they wanted their points to be placed I doubt anyone would complain.
Post by: provider on March 16, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
Read page two "Green Sheet", 4th paragraph, on how this new funding will help hunting access.
That's sure nice of you biggame guys to fund landowners for waterfowl and pheasant hunting. And besides money... all it cost you was much worse draw odds for your biggame permits.
That should make you feel better about this proposal and finally willing to support it... right?
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 09:02:17 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 16, 2010, 09:27:02 PM
Quote
If they had decided to let the applicant choose what category they wanted their points to be placed I doubt anyone would complain.
Maybe I am reading it wrong and according to many posts on here I might be. But the way I read it was that..... lets just use me for example I have 14 points for Elk they are going to put 14 points in each category that I apply for and only loose the points for the ones I get drawn for. sounds pretty good to me.
I do agree with I cannot trust what they will do with the money..
Post by: Curly on March 16, 2010, 09:52:42 PM
So, yeah, for you it is sweet........you'll easily be able to draw in every eligible category except quality. (now you'll have a bunch more guys in the pool for the quality permit whereas before there were guys that just applied for cow tags and didn't bother trying for those impossible to draw permits). What I'm saying is that it would be better to have you tell them what category you wanted your points to go.
I guess they counted on having a bunch of guys with a lot of points not complaining because they are practically going to be given permits for the easier to draw permits.
Post by: bobcat on March 16, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Yes it is a good deal for you and all who have many points like you do. That is why it's unfair.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 17, 2010, 07:39:04 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 17, 2010, 07:50:51 AM
I had given up completely on bull elk permits and went to only applying for cow elk. Now with the changes that strategy won't work anymore; I expect there will be too much competition for the antlerless permits, now that people have no reason to not apply for them.
It's really not that big of a deal to me, as I will be just fine with the general season hunts this year. My biggest complaint is the lack of public notice, of exactly how this new draw system was going to be done. They posted it on their website on February 4th, and now if all goes as expected, the proposal will be adopted at the commissioner's next meeting in April. That's only 2 months from the time of public notification to it being a done deal.
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2010, 07:56:06 AM
Quote
lets just use me for example I have 14 points for Elk they are going to put 14 points in each category that I apply for and only loose the points for the ones I get drawn for. sounds pretty good to me.If you have 14 points, that is probably because you have been applying for a "quality" bull permit? If you have been applying for an antlerless permit, you most likely would have drawn by now.
Guess what? Your odds of drawing that quality permit will get worse. You will not only be competing with the other hunters that been applying for that permit, but now many of the hunters that have been applying for antlerless tags will be jumping into your pool as well.
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2010, 08:01:43 AM
Quote
Also, the news release says that hunters will have more “options” not a greater chance of being drawn.Say what?
"First, it would reduce the number of applicants in each drawing, thereby potentially improving hunters' odds of being selected for hunts they prefer"
Dave Ware said that here: http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html)
Post by: billythekidrock on March 17, 2010, 08:05:15 AM
I can understand your frustration. But I have felt that frustration for 14 years.. So you can say I have felt the system never worked..
So how do you feel about the guys that have 20+ points in every category?
Post by: billythekidrock on March 17, 2010, 08:09:19 AM
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
Post by: bobcat on March 17, 2010, 08:10:20 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2010, 08:22:52 AM
Probably only the Master Hunters...Master Hunters seem to get blasted on this site so you probably don't hear much from them complaining.
Post by: bobcat on March 17, 2010, 08:24:58 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on March 17, 2010, 08:27:36 AM
Probably only the Master Hunters...Master Hunters seem to get blasted on this site so you probably don't hear much from them complaining.
I agree, but I don't even hear the MH guys talking about it.
Post by: bobcat on March 17, 2010, 08:29:57 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 17, 2010, 08:35:48 AM
On a side note.
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
why would anyone be upset about that??
Post by: CP on March 17, 2010, 08:38:35 AM
On a side note.
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
It doesn’t bother me, but I’m not an antler collector. What does suck is it looks like you will lose points if drawn for a HC hunt. I’m not seeing a lot of incentive to participate in those.
Post by: colockumelk on March 17, 2010, 08:46:41 AM
"Had we chosen other ways to distribute points, I am certain we would have been criticized for them as well."
:ass: :bs:
If they had decided to let the applicant choose what category they wanted their points to be placed I doubt anyone would complain.
:yeah:
What makes me mad about this is that it was nice for kids because drawing a cow tag only took maybe 2-3 years. So every two to three years if you have a kid you can plan on them smoking a cow. Or at least seeing legal cows to shoot. What about now? How long is it gonna take now for your kids to get drawn for a cow? Now that a bunch of guys with 8-10 points are in the mix. It's gonna be just as tough now to draw a cow tag as it will to draw a bull tag. Maybe even harder. In some GMU's they give out more branch tags than cow tags. How do we expect to keep hunter numbers up or keep our kids interested if they don't have opportunities? That's where our hunting numbers went. Without opportunity people either give up or they go elsewhere.
Post by: Crunchy on March 17, 2010, 08:47:14 AM
On a side note.
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
Doesnt bother me either. I dont think there are any decent MH buck permits, and as far as bulls, I dont eat horns, and happy with a nice fat cow.
Post by: tlake on March 17, 2010, 08:57:31 AM
(First, it would reduce the number of applicants in each drawing, thereby potentially improving hunters' odds of being selected for hunts they prefer"
Dave Ware said that here: http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/2010_changes_faq.html))
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2010, 09:01:10 AM
If they really wanted to ensure fairness, they would allow you to choose what category your points should be dropped into.
I'm likely done applying for any permits except the "quality" buck and bull permits now. I don't want to fund any of their programs when they are just a bunch of liars and idiots.
If they really cared about hunters, they would get rid of the wolves, have more liberal cougar hunting, allow dogs to be used for coyotes, stand up for hunters and strongly oppose the stupid initiatives like banning hunting with hounds, trapping ban, and bear baiting.........the list goes on. Bottom line, there's too damn many predators in this state eating our deer and elk............and WDFW should be doing something about that.
If they could improve the quality of the deer and elk herds, then they could have more permits available.....thus allowing us to draw permits more often. But they would rather just add a whole bunch of categories in the draw system to gain more money instead of actually helping the deer and elk herds.
Post by: CP on March 17, 2010, 09:04:03 AM
Post by: luvtohnt on March 17, 2010, 09:33:07 AM
What makes me mad about this is that it was nice for kids because drawing a cow tag only took maybe 2-3 years. So every two to three years if you have a kid you can plan on them smoking a cow. Or at least seeing legal cows to shoot. What about now? How long is it gonna take now for your kids to get drawn for a cow? Now that a bunch of guys with 8-10 points are in the mix. It's gonna be just as tough now to draw a cow tag as it will to draw a bull tag. Maybe even harder. In some GMU's they give out more branch tags than cow tags. How do we expect to keep hunter numbers up or keep our kids interested if they don't have opportunities? That's where our hunting numbers went. Without opportunity people either give up or they go elsewhere.
There is still a youth category so the odds for a child to draw probably won't change!!
Brandon
Post by: Bob33 on March 17, 2010, 09:49:42 AM
I have no interest in "quality" buck and bull permits. I wonder if I can sell my points to someone who does.Contact Dave Ware. He's looking into ways to raise revenues.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 17, 2010, 11:09:58 AM
I have no interest in "quality" buck and bull permits. I wonder if I can sell my points to someone who does.Contact Dave Ware. He's looking into ways to raise revenues.
LOL
Ain't that the truth!
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2010, 11:13:24 AM
I have no interest in "quality" buck and bull permits. I wonder if I can sell my points to someone who does.
I hear you. I don't have interest in them either.......except that I want in the pool just to mess with the guys with 14 points so that I can hear them whine if I draw with 1 point to their 15..... ;) :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: billythekidrock on March 17, 2010, 11:17:40 AM
I have no interest in "quality" buck and bull permits. I wonder if I can sell my points to someone who does.
I hear you. I don't have interest in them either.......except that I want in the pool just to mess with the guys with 14 points so that I can hear them whine if I draw with 1 point to their 15..... ;) :chuckle: :chuckle:
You know those guys will be interested in "quality" when their 14 "antlerless" points are gone and they still have 14 in the other categories.
Post by: Dansk on March 17, 2010, 11:45:28 AM
On a side note.
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
Where does it say that?
...I read the info in all the links... can't find any specifics on the MH permits... :dunno:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on March 17, 2010, 11:47:56 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 17, 2010, 11:48:45 AM
On a side note.
Seems like no one is upset that they are taking away the bull and buck permits from the Master Hunters.
Where does it say that?
...I read the info in all the links... can't find any specifics on the MH permits... :dunno:
It should all be in here:
Post by: luvtohnt on March 17, 2010, 11:51:24 AM
Brandon
Post by: CP on March 17, 2010, 01:32:38 PM
Rattlesnake Hills Any elk tag EA, EF, EM/2nd tag Master Hunter Aug. 1 - Feb. 28 Antlerless or spike bull Designated Areas in GMU 372 20HC
Post by: rosscrazyelk on March 17, 2010, 04:55:51 PM
I do not have the answers nor am I brilliant enough to come up with a solution. There will never be a system that works for everyone , There will always be complainers.
If anyone can come up with the genius plan to fix it let me know and I will give it my full support .