Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 02:20:49 PM
I wonder why a Bird dog's owner got Citied for walking thur field with out Leashed and Gamewarden asked him what ya doing here. He said trying to spend time with dogs. He said do you carry Hunting License? He said why should I? So Officer asked him for drive License and told him to follow him to his Truck and file report and let him go after two half months later. He talked to his Sgt Cheif few days after and felt that they are unlawful hunting Bird with out a License.
Even He doesnt carry ShotGUN OR NO GUNS with him also Officer searched him that doesnt carry any Gun!! He got CITIED Unlawful hunting bird with out License after TWO HALF MONTHS He got letter with Ticket! There was no dead bird to prove he was hunting.
So Do any kind dog Breeds require a hunting license to be in forest/field with out a leash ???
Mulehunter
Post by: bobcat on March 28, 2010, 02:30:36 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 03:39:05 PM
Mulehunter
Post by: bobcat on March 28, 2010, 03:48:11 PM
Post by: bucklucky on March 28, 2010, 03:53:44 PM
I called WDFW to ask about excercising my dogs and what they told me , and this came from a gamewarden, is this:
" While not illegal, if someone saw me in the woods with my hounds, they would more than likely call the game departmen. From there I would come out and herass you and you will not like me, you will be written a ticket for hunting out of season "
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 04:01:06 PM
It all about "intent".
I called WDFW to ask about excercising my dogs and what they told me , and this came from a gamewarden, is this:
" While not illegal, if someone saw me in the woods with my hounds, they would more than likely call the game departmen. From there I would come out and herass you and you will not like me, you will be written a ticket for hunting out of season "
So bucklucky~ if that is true what they say... If it's not illegal how can they ticket you? How is this fair?
Mulehunter
Post by: bobcat on March 28, 2010, 04:17:02 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 04:28:32 PM
If you don't shoot anything they can't say you were hunting. Why do you ask? Are you not allowed to exercise your hounds out in the woods? I suppose if that is true that maybe the difference is that won't hound dogs trail any animal they're trained to? Once they start on a track is there any way to stop them? With a bird dog if they happen to find a bird it will just fly away and be gone.
True... Bird flew off to Tree! Well... what you gave your dog reward? ( Cheer dog and say GOOD JOB GOOD JOB GO Get Bird ) ;)
Mulehunter :chuckle:
Post by: Houndhunter on March 28, 2010, 05:00:16 PM
How do they know what your intent is? Are they mind readers? If you don't have a gun I'd think that would be a good indication of your lack of intent to be hunting. How is a guy supposed to exercise his dogs?
there interpetation is this, if they think your upto something game wardens can and sometimes will write you up and say "prove it in court". i have a story about me and my hound that fits with this discussion, ive told it before on another thread. i'll type it up here in a bit
Post by: bucklucky on March 28, 2010, 05:10:28 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 28, 2010, 05:34:39 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on March 28, 2010, 05:50:42 PM
for the people that dont know me in person, i only have one hound at my place as that is what im allowed(although im working on getting another one ;)). this dog is more than a a hunting dog, shes a pet as well and goes pretty much where ever i can take her whether im hunting or not. bare with me on the story, im not much of a writer :chuckle:
while visting some family and friends in ea wa, i had my pup with me and went out for a lil investigative trip up a good sized creek. while walking up the creek a gamie saw me with my dog and came down to check me out. the first thing he says to me is you got a permit for hunting lion, i only have one dog and its about 1 hour before dusk, and i said im not hunting lion im out looking for some coons. he immediatly started talking very offensivley and told me there are no coons here and that i knew that and was trying to run lion, mind you its very late not the time to turn loose on a cat. so i said im on a creek, how else can i be looking for coons? im from olympia how im i supposed to know that and it doesnt even matter if you say theres no coons here seeing as when your hunting raccoons the regs say its open statewide. there were some old cat tracks we crossed, which the gamie pointed out, but they were frozin solid and atleast a week old with snow in them and he figured i was trying to run that track. even though i went the oppisite way of the track, which i pointed out to him if i was trying to follow that track i would be following it in the direction it was going, he said i was running lion. so off we go back to the rig and he takes my drivers lic and ask for my hunting lic and i dont have it on me becuase i wasnt hunting. well he tells me i am hunting, and i said no i dont even have a knife on me. he was much nicer at this point not accusing me of stuff. i told him search all my things and my truck you'll find no weapon. he told me i dont need a weapon, if im walking my hound out in the woods looking for coons than im hunting. he ended up giving me a ticket for hunting raccoons with no small game. techically if your trying to harvest, harass, or pursue an animal than your hunting. so you guys with cameras taking pics or calling in animals for fun if you run into a gamie watch out, by law you need a hunting license to take pics of animals. i was pretty pissed and i think if i would have taken this to court and i could have gotten it off, but it would have cost me more to fight the ticket than to actually pay it. he knew this and i beleive he was trying to scare me and intimidate me to not come back there.
what gets me is how ignorant they are when it comes to running hounds, and why they got to be a jerk to me when im very respectful to them. ive been pestered by them before but this was the first time i had ever gotten a ticket. one time i had one tell me that if i wasnt within 200yrds of water then he woulda wrote me up for not targeting coons, well what if i was targeting fox or rabbits which are still legal to hunt with hounds in this state? ive never met a half way decent gamie when i have dogs with me, there always a complete *censored* and dont give me any respect, mainly due to my young age probably. i used to road my dog for exercise but after getting that ticket i quite doing that. it dont matter what you tell them, they'll right you up if you have hounds if they think in the slightest that your trying to run something your not supposed too. im kinda suprised they wrote a some without a hound, but it doesnt really suprise me. im sure eventually guys with bird dogs will get treated the same way by gamies.
moral of the story is i think you just need to be careful if you have a dog used for hunting, because they will write you up
Post by: ribka on March 28, 2010, 05:52:11 PM
Was walking the dog today shed hunting and kicked up quite a few huns, chukars and grouse. I guess I should have not said "good dog" when he pointed them. Will probably be fined. Most Game Wardens are good understanding guys but have met a few in WA that left me shaking my head. :dunno:
Post by: Curly on March 28, 2010, 06:02:26 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 06:04:51 PM
Finally They got hook off from him and let him go. I was surprised they are really not doing Properly to him way he tell TRUTH but caused worst after he say he is looking for Tracks with out use dogs for the permittee so he will know where Cats to go after in the next morning.
Mulehunter
Post by: Houndhunter on March 28, 2010, 06:12:09 PM
The game wardens sure seem to dislike you hound guys. That sucks. You guys ever try telling them that you're just out for a walk with your dog and you're not running anything..... :dunno:
did you read my story?? it dont matter when you run across the right gamie :bash:
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 06:15:48 PM
The game wardens sure seem to dislike you hound guys. That sucks. You guys ever try telling them that you're just out for a walk with your dog and you're not running anything..... :dunno:
Trust me I got stopped by Gamewarden EVEN I am Excrising strike in Hancock Forest over Snoq area last year before I head out to Lolo Unit Idaho bear hunting. I am trying to dragging a scent with Bear stuff on it and put rag with scent hanging up Tree off the road for dog to learn how to strike off box and they stopped forced me to step out my truck twice in this area and search whole my truck even my Camera and told me put your dogs back in BOX and get out your not allowed use hounds here. But they kept said U CANNOT BRING HOUNDS IN THIS AREA! Well I asked him Where Can I training my dogs and excrise running on road before I head out to Idaho. He said you have to go over Idaho and not here.
Mulehunter
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2010, 08:12:44 PM
RCW 77.15.240
Unlawful use of dogs — Public nuisance — Penalty.
(c) During the closed season for a species of game animal or game bird, negligently fails to prevent the dog from pursuing such animal or destroying the nest of a game bird.
(2) Unlawful use of dogs is a misdemeanor. A dog that is the basis for a violation of this section may be declared a public nuisance.
[1998 c 190 § 30.]
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: Houndhunter on March 28, 2010, 08:27:17 PM
The game wardens sure seem to dislike you hound guys. That sucks. You guys ever try telling them that you're just out for a walk with your dog and you're not running anything..... :dunno:
Trust me I got stopped by Gamewarden EVEN I am Excrising strike in Hancock Forest over Snoq area last year before I head out to Lolo Unit Idaho bear hunting. I am trying to dragging a scent with Bear stuff on it and put rag with scent hanging up Tree off the road for dog to learn how to strike off box and they stopped forced me to step out my truck twice in this area and search whole my truck even my Camera and told me put your dogs back in BOX and get out your not allowed use hounds here. But they kept said U CANNOT BRING HOUNDS IN THIS AREA! Well I asked him Where Can I training my dogs and excrise running on road before I head out to Idaho. He said you have to go over Idaho and not here.
Mulehunter
pretty f'd up huh, i dont road my dog anymore. hard to keep your dogs in shape when you live in wa :bash:
Post by: Curly on March 29, 2010, 08:41:55 AM
The game wardens sure seem to dislike you hound guys. That sucks. You guys ever try telling them that you're just out for a walk with your dog and you're not running anything..... :dunno:
did you read my story?? it dont matter when you run across the right gamie :bash:
Yeah, I read your story. That is F'd up. I feel for you guys. The WDFW sucks. They go by the assumption that people are guilty and you have to try to prove you're innocent....
I was just wondering what the gamie would have done if you lied to him........instead of telling him the truth about looking for racoons (even though there apparently isn't any to be found), what if you would have said you were just going for a walk with your dog?
Post by: whacker1 on March 29, 2010, 10:30:47 AM
Sad that they treat hound hunters and others as second class citizens. I wonder if the game wardens that interpret the law as they do have ever had to defend their own innocent actions in court on their own dime. Many of them sure like to write tickets and let the folks defend in court. Very frustrating. Maybe if the Game Wardens would play an active role with hound hunters more Tom's would be killed instead of the season ending early, because too many females were taken in a particular unit.
I just don't understand why they target the cat hunting so hard. Is there not enough fishing to patrol during the winter? Do they just not have enough to do during this time of the year?
Post by: bobcat on March 29, 2010, 01:15:11 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 29, 2010, 01:31:47 PM
We were told we can excercise our hounds, however, if they leave the road on a track they are considered hunting. Also the hounds must be under your immediate control.
There are some potential Forest Service problems, I think they could harrass you for not having a dog leashed if they want to. :twocents:
There is language in the regulations that address this issue of what is considered hunting with dogs.
Post by: bearpaw on March 29, 2010, 01:48:40 PM
Transporting a dog(s) in a motorized vehicle or walking a dog on a leash is not pursuit.
Post by: bobcat on March 29, 2010, 02:40:45 PM
Post by: whacker1 on March 29, 2010, 02:43:03 PM
Quote
It's kind of hard to give a hunting dog proper exercise while on a leash! Unless you're into running along with the dog at 15 mph for 10 miles!
You just need to do it like Clark Griswold does it and tie the leash to the bumper of the family truckster. :chuckle:
Post by: steen on March 29, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on March 29, 2010, 04:23:08 PM
I'm not even sure why they'd be concerned with enforcing the no hound hunting law. After all, they claim they were not for it... it was the voters of Washington state that passed it. They should only be going after hound hunters who are blatantly violating the law.
that bill passed almost 15 years ago, how many gamies you think that were employed than still are now? i was talking to a guy on saturday about how sometimes you run into a gamie and it just seems like he knows nothing about hunting, he told about an article he read for people interested in becoming a game warden. it stated in the article that they are trying to employ more non hunters as game wardens, not a good idea. they arent regular cops, they should at least have some knowledge of hunting in general. i havnt seen the article but if i find i will be sure to post it up. im not trying to sound like i hate gamies, but they treat you like *censored* when you have hounds with you everytime! im all about having someone get busted if they commit a crime, especially with wildlife, ive just had some bad run ins with gamies when i was doing nothing wrong
Post by: stumprat on March 29, 2010, 05:05:48 PM
A few years back. I was cited for hunting out of season for roading my dogs for exercise. I offered the warden to search my truck for firearms as I had none with me.
At that point. He told me I didn't need a firearm. He went on to explain to me that the definition of hunting was "Any means to harass, pursue, or kill".
I was informed that as a houndsman. Anytime your dogs are not under you physical control ie.,(leash) you meet the definition of hunting.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'm not even sure why they'd be concerned with enforcing the no hound hunting law. After all, they claim they were not for it... it was the voters of Washington state that passed it. They should only be going after hound hunters who are blatantly violating the law".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer this question. It's not what the Dept. did TO us. It is more thier lack of doing anything at all as we went through it. Believe me the silence on thier part was deafening.
If you want to know what it is like to feel criminalized, and betrayed by WDFW. Just put a dog box in your truck.
And yes it is true. The voters decided the fate of hound hunting back then. But last year the department outlawed Coyote hunting with dogs. On thier own accord.
This action should concern coon hunters and beaglers greatly. Now that the department has made this move. It is my opinion that the antis will really push the dept. to curtail more dog hunting oppotunities.
OK enough of my rants. Best of luck to future houndsmen
Post by: mulehunter on March 29, 2010, 05:46:11 PM
Reason I am here to share about this GENERAL POINT why Bird Dogs get to chase "PURSUIT" Bird ANYWHERE I PROMISE YOU people.... Maybe 500 residence chased off Geese, Grouse, ducks Per weekend TRUST ME.... but they dont get citied or harassed by Gammie.... :bash:
By the way Its snowing sooo HARD up here. I will write more when my Dish get cleared from Snow.
SNOWING almost one inches here!
Mulehunter :yike:
Post by: mulehunter on March 30, 2010, 04:35:54 AM
Trust me I am ready to quit. But I definely want to find Biggest Cat to Kill over Idaho before I QUIT!
Working on it this coming Winter!
By the way we got 5" snow overnight and contiune snowing this morning...
:yike: Heading to work
Mulehunter :chuckle:
Post by: bonneylakebowman on March 30, 2010, 11:00:45 AM
Post by: bonneylakebowman on March 30, 2010, 11:01:21 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 30, 2010, 11:05:08 AM
Post by: mulehunter on March 30, 2010, 12:11:10 PM
I've never seen hunting dogs defined by breed in the Washington game laws.
True.. The only reason I am asking some Debate about Bird dogs get whole HOOK OFF from Gammie when they chase all Geese, ducks, Grouse all year around, but GAMMIE FOUCS on SNAGGING all Hounds to their HAND!! So all Gammie stand right next to someone Several Times over NOTHING BUT Harassing and find a way a reason to Citied!
Many times I wanna spend time playing with my hounds threw something over river and have them swimming and spend time with my dogs like everybody. But I got stopped several times. I stop going anywhere bring my best frined dogs Trust me! I disagreed with Officer way they THINK DIFFERENT and threat someone like a SH$T!
Mulehunter >:(
Post by: bucklucky on March 30, 2010, 12:44:52 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 30, 2010, 01:28:55 PM
I was watching a guy the other day right behind my house running his bird dog in the brush without a leash. To me he was just excercising his bird dog, but to a warden would it be hunting? Now if that was a hound it would definately be hunting
Bird dogs are hunting FOR REAL! If it was over UTAH State, WHOLE People will CLAPPING Welcome and NICELY to all HOUNDMEN and meet eachother and people ZIPPER MOUTH!! They just going out camping backhorse, all Bs... But over here soon if I unload horse and open dog box door and go for horse ride and excrise with hounds before I head out to Idaho. People CALL GAMMIE RIGHT AWAY! :bash:
Mulehunter
Post by: bearpaw on March 31, 2010, 09:23:38 AM
Post by: mulehunter on March 31, 2010, 07:13:11 PM
mulehunter, have your wife call the regional headquarters where you want to run your dogs, ask for the head of enforcement, then have her explain that you just want to excercise you dogs. Ask if they will let all their wardens know that you plan to excercise your dogs in that area. See what they say. :twocents:
I will. Thanks.
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: mulehunter on April 03, 2010, 05:08:31 PM
Why is it legal for you bird guys to use live bait and us houndsman are left out in the cold again... :(
Explain to me please why Bird dogs People can do whatever they want to.
Mulehunter ;)
Post by: mulehunter on April 03, 2010, 05:29:20 PM
I had some delivered but need more. Biginner is in the Tri-Cities so if anyone goes I would help with gas if they would bring some back for me. I trap them here but its been slow this year so far.
Quote from: bonneylakebowman on Yesterday at 08:58:55 PM
Where is he located at?
I am interested too! I would mind going to pick up some birds.
Re: how many people use pigeons to train their dogs?
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 06:06:02 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
usually he charges $5 each, but quantity will make it cheaper
Re: how many people use pigeons to train their dogs?
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 11:54:40 AM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who's your father in law and will he sell me some pigeons?
Re: how many people use pigeons to train their dogs?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 06:17:56 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do, and i believe most people do.
They are cheaper to buy the Quail or Chucker.
how many people use pigeons to train their dogs?
« on: March 10, 2010, 04:10:42 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my father-in-law had several people buy a couple hundred pigeons from him to train their dogs for hunting, i was just wondering if anyone else does that? and if anyone wants to buy some pigeons, P.M. me,
Please help me to understand why Gamedept HATES ALL HOUNDMEN but not bird hunter ??? Should all houndmen be FAIR to Train our hounds use live Coon, Bobcat, etc just like ABOVE??
Mulehunter :)
Post by: Curly on April 03, 2010, 05:30:01 PM
What kind of live bait are you thinking about. :dunno: How do you train your dogs to go after cougar or bobcat or whatever? Or is it just instinct and comes natural?
Can't you use house cats from the pound or something as bait....???? :chuckle: :chuckle:
BTW - I enjoyed your pics in the POM contest of your dog crossing the log. :)
Post by: Curly on April 03, 2010, 05:41:55 PM
They likely don't get too many complaints about people shooting or training dogs with those nasty pigeons. Birds just aren't as cute in the minds of most non-hunters or anti-hunters, therefore they don't care as much. :twocents:
Post by: mulehunter on April 03, 2010, 05:57:38 PM
I think a lot of the reason why hound guys get shafted is because of the bunny huggers. They think bobcats, racoons, cougars, and even coyotes......are cute little cuddlie things that shouldn't be hunted. WDFW probably gets lots of bunny huggers whining about the poor little bobcat or cougars being chased.
They likely don't get too many complaints about people shooting or training dogs with those nasty pigeons. Birds just aren't as cute in the minds of most non-hunters or anti-hunters, therefore they don't care as much. :twocents:
Interesting... Dang, What I have done over years over Idaho on my permittee and on 3 of us on P.S.C.R Permit for three years, I have always LOVED to hunt and completely LOVE IT and will not stop doing what I love. I personal SHOULD have MOVED to Idaho or live in Utah. Honest... I am thinking.... to move but... where work... :bash:
Mulehunter
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 06, 2010, 12:31:35 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html)
Why is it legal for you bird guys to use live bait and us houndsman are left out in the cold again... :(
Explain to me please why Bird dogs People can do whatever they want to.
Mulehunter ;)
because I raise or buy the live game from a licensed dealer or trap pests legally. If you would like to run your hounds on live game, you are welcome to use privately owned ranches with privately owned game for pursuit / hunting....
I cannot go use WILDLIFE for training my dogs. I will get a ticket just as quickly as you if I send my dog out and it turns up a bunch of featherless ducklings.
Post by: Machias on April 06, 2010, 12:53:29 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html)
Why is it legal for you bird guys to use live bait and us houndsman are left out in the cold again... :(
Explain to me please why Bird dogs People can do whatever they want to.
Mulehunter ;)
because I raise or buy the live game from a licensed dealer or trap pests legally. If you would like to run your hounds on live game, you are welcome to use privately owned ranches with privately owned game for pursuit / hunting....
I cannot go use WILDLIFE for training my dogs. I will get a ticket just as quickly as you if I send my dog out and it turns up a bunch of featherless ducklings.
Not ture, I can attest to this first hand. I cannot go and trap a pest, i.e. a coon and run it for training, even if I ensure it is released unharmed. I can't catch it and use a roll cage, nothing.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 06, 2010, 01:02:12 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46240.0.html)
Why is it legal for you bird guys to use live bait and us houndsman are left out in the cold again... :(
Explain to me please why Bird dogs People can do whatever they want to.
Mulehunter ;)
because I raise or buy the live game from a licensed dealer or trap pests legally. If you would like to run your hounds on live game, you are welcome to use privately owned ranches with privately owned game for pursuit / hunting....
I cannot go use WILDLIFE for training my dogs. I will get a ticket just as quickly as you if I send my dog out and it turns up a bunch of featherless ducklings.
Not ture, I can attest to this first hand. I cannot go and trap a pest, i.e. a coon and run it for training, even if I ensure it is released unharmed. I can't catch it and use a roll cage, nothing.
Sorry, I don't train with racoons and I don't know if they are considered pests when living wild. You can go to a legal game ranch can't you? Privately owned and has privately raised "pests" to train your dogs with can't you?
It is exactly what I pay for when I'm training my bird dogs.
Post by: Machias on April 06, 2010, 01:24:19 PM
Post by: Machias on April 06, 2010, 01:28:48 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 06, 2010, 03:13:45 PM
Hmm that's a good question, I wonder if I could buy a legal coon for training purposes, I'll have to check into that. The privately owned and raised cats are out as well, unfortunately. :chuckle:
I suppose if your house kitty wants to play "big cat" for a day you could take it to a friends' private land and use it for testing the hounds? just a thought? hehehe...
Post by: mulehunter on April 06, 2010, 05:17:01 PM
Mulehunter
Post by: TONTO on April 10, 2010, 07:55:59 PM
I like to take my lab out grouse hunting in Sept, but I believe since last year and this year again I have been drawn for multiple season deer tags then I am ileagle since I have a valid archery tag in my possesion, and acompanied by a dog even though I am packing a scatter gun. I supose if I had a slug or buck shot they could probably get me for hunting bear or cat, never seen a lab put a bear up before, but it could be done. Interpretation, and intent :rolleyes:
Post by: bobcat on April 10, 2010, 09:54:38 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 14, 2010, 10:13:25 AM
You need a permit to own a coon, it's a wild animal. Back when I was running my hounds our club, Cowlitz County, had a pet coon we used for the water races and field trials.
I like to take my lab out grouse hunting in Sept, but I believe since last year and this year again I have been drawn for multiple season deer tags then I am ileagle since I have a valid archery tag in my possesion, and acompanied by a dog even though I am packing a scatter gun. I supose if I had a slug or buck shot they could probably get me for hunting bear or cat, never seen a lab put a bear up before, but it could be done. Interpretation, and intent :rolleyes:
Tough to get ticketed for archery deer hunting when you are carrying a shot gun and hunting with a dog isn't it? I think that would be called hunting out of season and illegal use of dogs for tracking/hunting...probably a much more significant penalty....