Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 12:05:22 PM
These are on top of the deer and elk tag to start with
Quality Buck = 6.50
Buck Hunts = 6.50
2nd Deer = 6.50
Antlerless = 6.50
TOTAL = 26.00 + fees
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 12:08:26 PM
For elk I will put in for the Quality, Bull, and Antlerless. So that's another $19.50.
For a total of $45.50, just for deer and elk permit applications.
Last year it would have cost about $10 to apply for deer and elk hunts. This year $35 more. :bash:
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2010, 12:10:08 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 12:11:30 PM
Post by: winston2789 on April 23, 2010, 12:12:24 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 12:15:35 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 12:19:05 PM
Also, did you notice how they had to stick at least one hunt into every category? There is one disabled moose hunt, so the disabled can spend an extra $6.50 to apply. There is a Sheep Ewe category with one hunt, a Sheep Youth with one, a Sheep Senior with one.
Post by: CoryTDF on April 23, 2010, 12:57:15 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 01:04:01 PM
I'm going to use the Freedom Of Information act to hound WDFW to give me details of how much revenue they actually received and how it is spent. I encourge others to do the same.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 23, 2010, 01:06:32 PM
Quote
I'm going to use the Freedom Of Information act to hound WDFW to give me details of how much revenue they actually received and how it is spent. I encourge others to do the same.
There is no chance that the additional revenue goes into seperate accounts for "land acquisitions"
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 01:10:07 PM
Quote
Department managers are hopeful that these improvements will result in greater customer satisfaction and increase applications for special hunting permits. The additional revenue is intended for use in increasing hunter access to private property
I think the money will be used to just keep as many employees on as they possibly can.
Post by: CoryTDF on April 23, 2010, 01:10:20 PM
The purpose was initially to "improve draw odds". That changed to "increase revenue". The revenue was to be used to acquire additional land.
I'm going to use the Freedom Of Information act to hound WDFW to give me details of how much revenue they actually received and how it is spent. I encourge others to do the same.
That is a great idea. However, i'm sure you wont like what you find. I wonder how many dinners my $91 is going to buy Mr. Gregoire.
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 01:14:34 PM
Quote
This plan was developed with broad public input and the strong support of the Department’s Game Management Advisory Council.
:bs:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 23, 2010, 01:16:19 PM
If we didnt raise the Revenue we were going to have to discontinue our current leases and then there would basically be no access yes program... The additional funds will actually go to the state general fund and allow WDFW to keep what they have not get there budget cut..
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 01:17:28 PM
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2010, 01:18:19 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 01:42:16 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 01:45:08 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 01:51:32 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 01:56:07 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 01:57:27 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 23, 2010, 02:06:29 PM
It used to be in the early 90's that alot of the Yakima area units had late deer tags, maybe 25 permits with less than 100 applicants for them. The year that the state initiated the bonus point system and started giving us 4 choices(previously it was one) the number of applicants shot up. I expect the same this year as many guys will see this as something "new" and want to start getting those points so they don't miss out. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 02:09:28 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2010, 02:10:49 PM
Post by: winston2789 on April 23, 2010, 02:15:26 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 23, 2010, 02:19:14 PM
(1) WDFW will generate more revenue from the sale of permit applications, and tout the new program as a resounding success.
(2) WDFW will find one or two hunters that drew "quality" tags under the new program and interview them. They will state how wonderful the new program is.
(3) 2011 will bring even more categories to apply in: left handed shooters, right handed shooters, calibers below 270, calibers above 270, December hunts, non-December hunts....
(4) Hunter numbers will decline in 2011 over 2010. WDFW will blame it on George Bush or climate change.
Post by: boneaddict on April 23, 2010, 02:23:25 PM
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 23, 2010, 02:30:02 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on April 23, 2010, 02:31:35 PM
Ridgerunner is spot on IMO.
Post by: billythekidrock on April 23, 2010, 08:20:15 PM
Just think guys, they haven't messed with Duck Hunting yet. That could be a whole new permit issue. Permits for Mallards, Pintails, Buffleheads, Goldeneye. Drake permits and Hen permits, the possibility is endless on how to generate more hunter dollars for state funded things like basket weaving. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Ya know..that is not a bad idea. Why should big game hunters have to carry the burden of paying for access?
Post by: Antlerking on April 23, 2010, 08:25:28 PM
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2010, 08:26:56 PM
(I think much of the access they are trying to get is for bird hunters, though)
Post by: billythekidrock on April 23, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
So when can we apply for the shed hunting permits for 2011, I havnt seen em yet but there will b some money to b made.
Post by: Huntinsparky on April 23, 2010, 08:32:00 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on April 23, 2010, 08:36:14 PM
I feel that this is a good thing you have more options on what you can apply for. If you don't feel like spending more money on permits then don't. No one is forcing you to apply for all the categories only put in for the one you want. If you put in for all of them then you obviously want every chance you get and the new system helps in a great way. Besides that if you want a doe permit you don't lose your point towards a buck tag. That's my :twocents:
Actually you only get the ability to give F&W more money for the same options you have always had. It is a money grab plain and simple.
Post by: Antlerking on April 23, 2010, 08:36:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 08:36:32 PM
(WDFW, are you listening?)
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2010, 08:41:11 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on April 23, 2010, 08:45:00 PM
can u just imagine that all the people that only meat hunt and that only put in for doe/cow tags, can now put in for and will put in for the buck/bull tags cause they dont loose there points. In my oponion the draw odds for any quality hunt has now gone out the window now and for ever.
You are absolutely right. But the funny part is that many "trophy" hunters and "meat" hunters have stated that they wouldn't apply for the other permits. You can be that once they draw in their desired category that the points in the other categories will start to look really good. Those trophy hunters will be applying for meat hunts and vice versa in the next few years.
Post by: Huntinsparky on April 23, 2010, 08:48:49 PM
Post by: Curly on April 23, 2010, 08:57:41 PM
I feel like not buying permit applications, but then do I really want to get behind everyone in the point system??? It sucks...... :bash:
Post by: bobcat on April 23, 2010, 09:00:27 PM
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, since you're new here, but the biggest problem with the new special permit system, is that they are putting people's current points for each species into every category. So for someone who has been applying since the beginning of the point system in 1996, they could have 14 points for every species. This person with 14 points can now apply, for example, for a cow elk permit, which before would have been a sure draw every three years, and this person with 14 points is now just about guaranteed to draw that cow permit before any of the people who had been regularly applying for it, because these people will only have 2 or 3 points at the most. How is this fair? A person with 14 points did not earn those points by applying for relatively easy to draw cow permits. The only fair way to allocate a person's points would have been for every person to choose ONE category in which they would go. So I'm assuming since you like the system you must have a high number of points for all species?
Post by: Huntinsparky on April 23, 2010, 09:27:28 PM
Post by: winston2789 on April 24, 2010, 08:07:21 AM
Post by: royalbull on April 24, 2010, 08:17:41 AM
Post by: npaull on April 24, 2010, 08:33:48 AM
Yeah but the opposite is true too! Guys like me, who really only care about the doe/cow/meat tags, now are competing with all the trophy guys, who have nothing to lose for putting in for those easier tags! That's what chaps my ass. The antlerless moose tag, ewe sheep tag, and margaret cow elk tag are now going to be virtually as hard to draw as the best trophy tags...
Post by: Curly on April 24, 2010, 08:38:11 AM
Yeah but the opposite is true too! Guys like me, who really only care about the doe/cow/meat tags, now are competing with all the trophy guys, who have nothing to lose for putting in for those easier tags! That's what chaps my ass. The antlerless moose tag, ewe sheep tag, and margaret cow elk tag are now going to be virtually as hard to draw as the best trophy tags...
Yeah. And all those trophy guys are likely to have 14 points and will easily be able to draw the margaret or toutle cow elk permits. The guys with little to no points will be screwed at least for a few years.
Post by: kramman on April 24, 2010, 10:02:10 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 24, 2010, 10:07:14 AM
Post by: kramman on April 24, 2010, 10:11:55 AM
Post by: Huntinsparky on April 24, 2010, 04:19:19 PM
Post by: Curly on April 24, 2010, 04:55:18 PM
I think that you guys just like to complain about anything and everything that doesn't go the way you want it.
Not true. The guys with lots of points have pretty much just been handed special permits in any of the easier to draw categories. They should have to pay for those points like everybody else. What is fair is fair and I don't complain about things that are fair but this b.s. is anything but fair........
Post by: npaull on April 24, 2010, 05:50:49 PM
Huntinsparky, I agree that there is plenty of reactionary, knee-jerk blaming of WDFW on here, but I'm not someone who does that. And I do understand that the WDFW's job is more than just pleasing every individual hunter. And I even hazard to assume every now and then that just perhaps, an agency that receives field reports from PhD biologists from across the state has a better big-picture understanding of the big game herds around here than so many local "experts."
But I really have a hard time understanding how they did not see this problem - making easier tags now nearly as hard as hard tags (at least potentially). Especially because the solution was so simple - just make people have to choose where their points go. That way, everyone could still keep "chasing" the tag of their dreams. I'd be surprised if the antlerless moose permit doesn't approach the applicant #s of 49 degrees and Selkirk this year. Especially because you can draw it, shoot a moose, keep your points, and apply for an antlered unit next year! You'd be almost crazy not to apply, especially if you have tons of points saved up from years of chasing Selkirk. Same thing goes with Margaret cow tag, etc.
The thing is, absolutely nothing has been done to make the hard tags easier to draw. And it's a HUGE blow to easier tags.
Post by: SkookumHntr on April 24, 2010, 06:00:04 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on April 24, 2010, 06:09:00 PM
Not true. The guys with lots of points have pretty much just been handed special permits in any of the easier to draw categories. They should have to pay for those points like everybody else.
We have paid for them, we have lots of points because we haven't been drawn.I understand what you meant b/c i now have 12 antlerless points when i've never put in for them however... going into the draw i will have 13 points built up, that's 12 years of unsuccessful drawing i believe i have "paid" enough. Those that have put in for antlerless in the past have most likely drawn their share of tags. Now i get your point, being....I will put in for a second deer tag, but not not an antlerless tag so not everyone puts in for antlerless or "meat" hunts. I feel that the "trophy" hunters may have worse draw odds now b/c the "meat" hunters can put in for "trophy" hunts without losing "meat" points, but on the flip side, some people such as myself really do not have a desire to harvest a doe, but i'm sure more "meat" hunters now given the opportunity to harvest a buck/bull w/o losing "meat" points are going to apply cause meat is meat, but when you spend most of your time putting in for "trophy" hunts, i just dont care to put in for antlerless hunts.
Post by: npaull on April 24, 2010, 06:13:32 PM
Post by: BIGMIKE on April 24, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Sadly it applies to hunting too.
Let's all move to Alaska.
Post by: hornhunter on April 25, 2010, 01:35:12 PM
lets say I have 6 points. I put in for a Quality deer hunt and a Buck deer hunt. I draw both. My understanding of the explanation on page 80 of the regulations is, you may participate in both hunts, NOT choose one hunt over the other hunt. In this case I would now loose points in both pools but possibly only participate in one hunt. This seems like a flaw in the system. You should be able to choose one hunt or the other. Now for fear of loosing points in both catagories do you apply only for Quality deer hunts and save your points for Buck deer hunts? In which case the NEW system REALLY sucks because now you only get 2 choices. Hmmmmmm..... How could this issue be fixed?
Post by: bobcat on April 25, 2010, 01:39:28 PM
If not that, then the drawing should be done so that once a person draws a permit in one category, they automatically become ineligible to draw another permit for the same species. But for this idea, they will say the computers cannot be programmed to do something like that, is my guess.
Post by: Bob33 on April 25, 2010, 01:54:03 PM
Question:A few points: (a) you can participate in both hunts but you can only harvest in one; (b) you can apply for quality hunts and accumulate points in other categories by applying for a ghost hunt, or you can roll the dice by applying in more than one, and hope to get selected in only one category. If you do get selected in more than one category and want to turn one permit back in, you can roll the dice that WDFW will accept your explanation that you "made a mistake", and restore your points.
lets say I have 6 points. I put in for a Quality deer hunt and a Buck deer hunt. I draw both. My understanding of the explanation on page 80 of the regulations is, you may participate in both hunts, NOT choose one hunt over the other hunt. In this case I would now loose points in both pools but possibly only participate in one hunt. This seems like a flaw in the system. You should be able to choose one hunt or the other. Now for fear of loosing points in both catagories do you apply only for Quality deer hunts and save your points for Buck deer hunts? In which case the NEW system REALLY sucks because now you only get 2 choices. Hmmmmmm..... How could this issue be fixed?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 25, 2010, 02:17:12 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 25, 2010, 02:20:29 PM
Post by: hornhunter on April 25, 2010, 08:28:49 PM
Your understanding is correct. HOWEVER, if you are applying in multiple categories with the intent of drawing only one permit (a quality permit, or an antlerless permit, but not both) then you have a problem.
BINGO!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 25, 2010, 10:31:41 PM
Post by: Raul Duke on April 26, 2010, 07:17:09 AM
Have they gone away from that system? When I put in for bear it was only a Raffle.
Do they now tell you where your going to hunt?
Just asking since Im not sure if I want to buy 'Raffel tickets"
Post by: Woodchuck on April 26, 2010, 10:42:59 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 26, 2010, 10:52:22 AM
not meaning to thread jack but figured i would add this here rather than start another one. just got off the phone with olympia asking a couple questions. one of the things i asked for clarification on was about the "second deer" it says that you can use your general tag during the special season, my thought was SWEET if i pull it i picked up a freebie late buck tag. weeeeeeelllllllll for any of you that saw that to, it is a" TYPO" and IS NOT the case, they are preparing a news release to e-mail out and we all know how well that works, you can only double up if the second deer season overlaps the general
I'm not seeing the "typo." ???
This is what it says in the regulations:
Quote
Category/Special Hunt Application Required: Second Deer
Who May Apply: Anyone may apply.
Hunt Choices Allowed: Up to 4 hunt choices may be selected for this category. Use the 4-digit "Hunt Choice" number below to submit your application. Notes: You must purchase a second deer tag to participate in this hunt and the second tag can only be used in the permit hunt. The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag. Your first and second deer tags can each be used to take a deer during this hunt. The first deer tag can be used during the special hunt or the general deer season. You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag.
What is it in that quote that is wrong?
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 26, 2010, 10:55:15 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 26, 2010, 11:00:17 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 26, 2010, 11:06:51 AM
Post by: Curly on April 26, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 26, 2010, 11:10:57 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 26, 2010, 11:18:35 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 26, 2010, 11:29:03 AM
Is it this sentence that is the problem?
Quote
The first deer tag can be used during the special hunt or the general deer season.
Post by: Woodchuck on April 26, 2010, 11:30:59 AM