Post by: Palmer on February 24, 2008, 10:04:47 PM
What has been bothering us is all the shooting we heard nearby across from the Geophysical Observatory along Indian Creek Rd. We heard 3 to 5 shots on both Saturday and Sunday. We found that there was a large structure built off the ground about 100 yards south of the Geophysical entrance. They have 10 feeders with timers and have cleared the brush out of the way around the feeders to get a clear shot.
I think they are taking baiting way too far. Furthermore, they either have a large hunting party or are sharing their structure with many of their friends. They may even be outfitters.
The downside is that Eastern Washington has approximately 50,000 whitetail and it seems that the population of mature bucks around Indian Creek Rd area has significantly declined. Whereas, in Idaho where baiting is illegal, we saw several mature bucks and the population North of the Pend Oreille is an estimated 200,000 whitetail.
Post by: Ray on February 24, 2008, 10:08:15 PM
Post by: Palmer on February 24, 2008, 10:18:35 PM
I'll add that baiting didn't bother me before until I saw it taken to such an extreme.
Post by: Ray on February 24, 2008, 10:22:12 PM
I'm not a trophy hunter so I don't care about horns as much as some people. But I certainly like to see healthy animals. In the end for me... there's enough deer that I have an opportunity where I go. It just takes a while to get in and out of there and sometimes I don't get one.
Post by: robodad on February 24, 2008, 10:28:30 PM
I think the baiting thing has gone too far when the outdoor channel has shows dedicated to screwing with the natural life cycle of the animals we hunt, I don't really think I could gain any sort of satisfaction by hunting baited or chemically engineered game animals. In fact I think I would be more ashamed then anything, and I could not reasonably show the thing off to my buddy's and feel good about it.
I am quite certain that baiting deer and supplemental feeding has played a huge role in the CWD epidemic we see in the midwest and I'm sure it is just a matter of time before it is here !!
Post by: Red Dawg on February 25, 2008, 05:29:09 AM
Post by: PolarBear on February 25, 2008, 05:40:35 AM
I think the supplementing feed during severe weather conditions is ok but to use bait for scouting or hunting purposes is not. Where is the skill in shooting man patterned game? If I want that kind of action I can sit on my back porch and shoot one of my cows. After all, this aint Texas. Corn flingers and mineral attractants should be banned and probably will within the next few years in this state, imo. I agree that all these "hunting" shows have fueled the desire to take game the easy or lazy mans way. I can understand baiting for the disabled or for old folks but the able bodied should do it the right way.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 25, 2008, 05:58:26 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 25, 2008, 06:20:24 AM
Post by: Ironhead on February 25, 2008, 07:02:48 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on February 25, 2008, 07:36:07 AM
Its legal to bait deer but not bear, This state is all mixed up.
That is kind of backwards when ya think about it.
Habitat enhancement for deer-YES!, Feed stations in wild areas NO!
It's a proven fact that when wildlife is congregated and feeding out of a feeder it spreads desease.
Post by: dbllunger on February 25, 2008, 07:57:11 AM
Post by: Outfitter on February 25, 2008, 08:57:51 AM
Post by: Ironhead on February 25, 2008, 10:47:01 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on February 25, 2008, 11:22:10 AM
Not sure why it is legal,especially since it isn't for bear??
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 11:26:13 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on February 25, 2008, 12:29:10 PM
Shawn
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 12:37:47 PM
I also agree that PETA Is a PITA
Pain in the Ass
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 25, 2008, 12:38:06 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 25, 2008, 12:46:37 PM
Basically if you don't agree with it don't do it,and don't bitch and complain about the people who do !! Its legal !!
:tup:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on February 25, 2008, 01:05:01 PM
If I am paying a guide for a deer or elk hunt and he is using bait as his main method of patterning game I would be seriously disappointed.
Post by: boneaddict on February 25, 2008, 01:09:43 PM
ok, I haven't baited, but ditto the sentiment. I really don't think its in good taste, but making anything like that illegal, opens a big can of worms for the anti dudes.
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 05:07:38 PM
Game animals should be left alone and if they starve to death then that is fine, if they multiply like rabbits then open more seasons to harvest more of them, but they need to be left to survive on their own and we need to stay out of their life until hunting season and hunt them under fair chase conditions.
If you bait deer and then charge your clients trophy fees well shame on you, that segment of the deer population has essentially been stolen from the rest of us who hunt fair chase. and your hunters should never have to pay more for a bigger deer.
If you have a high fence around your feeders and the only animals that can eat from them are those inside the high fence that you own personally then I could see your point but if they are a population of deer that I should have every right to hunt and you keep them on your own land by baiting them then you are basically a thief.
You don't need to bait deer for hunting, what you need to do is your homework and find better hunting areas.
Quote
I have also been told by so called (hunters)that Trail cameras should be banned because you are cheating patterning an animal to kill it.
I think trail camers should fall within the rule of no electronic devices and they should not be used during hunting seasons.
Post by: huntnphool on February 25, 2008, 05:08:57 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 25, 2008, 05:13:48 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 05:40:19 PM
Post by: PolarBear on February 25, 2008, 05:42:40 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 05:43:48 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 25, 2008, 05:49:43 PM
LOL, brings back memories of those UW Theta Xi frat boys, you go Huskies :chuckle: :iamwithstupid:
Post by: huntnphool on February 25, 2008, 05:56:37 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on February 25, 2008, 06:02:07 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 06:08:07 PM
Next they'll go after archers because they see it as hard on the animal.
There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to hunting priveleges.
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 06:14:55 PM
Quote
I think some of the folks who are so animated about the situation would be better of focusing on the real enemy.
I'm not sure who the enemy really is anymore !!
Post by: PolarBear on February 25, 2008, 06:23:40 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 06:24:42 PM
Once you get into a discussion where you have to completely defend or guard or otherwise legitimize your sports activity you are already losing.
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 25, 2008, 06:27:37 PM
Post by: Ironhead on February 25, 2008, 06:28:37 PM
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 06:41:44 PM
Quote
I'd say that unless there is some compelling reason to believe that hunting over bait for an animal is having devastating effects on the species' numbers then it should be off limits for banning
CWD comes to mind.
They are eradicating the deer population by any means to eliminate the possibility of this spreading, I'd say it is quite compelling don't you !!
Quote
Maybe we should prohibit all hunting on farms where there is food that the deer might eat, . this is getting out of control,
Deer are oppertunistic and will feed wherever there is food, and the point I am trying to make is that we should not Intentionally place feed specifically in areas it will attract game animals for the purpose of hunting them.
Post by: singleshot12 on February 25, 2008, 06:43:35 PM
We can live without bait piles and canned hunts if it makes us look bad.
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 06:52:18 PM
As far as hunter image goes. I think the image of hunters is not where they kill their animals for the most part... It's how they act where people can see them. I suppose if someone is hunting over a bait pile next to the road your comment would certainly ring true but I would find that to be the exception rather than the rule.
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 07:09:14 PM
Timothy R. Van Deelen Ph.D.
Wisconsin DNR Research
Summary
Reliable science provides support for a ban of baiting and feeding of white-tailed deer to reduce disease
risks for Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). Peer-reviewed research papers published in reputable
scientific journals indicate the following:
• CWD is transmitted laterally (live diseased deer infect other deer)
• Deer can get CWD by ingesting something contaminated with the disease prion
• CWD prions may be shed in feces and saliva
• Disease course and symptoms indicate high potential for transmission where deer are
concentrated
• Evidence from captive situations indicates that deer can get CWD from highly contaminated
environments.
• Baiting and Feeding causes unnatural concentration of deer
• Reduction of contact through a ban on baiting and feeding is likely very important to
eradicating or containing a CWD outbreak.
• Baiting and feeding continues to put Wisconsin’s deer herd at risk to other serious diseases
In addition, experts in CWD, wildlife disease and deer nutrition support bans on baiting and feeding as
part of a comprehensive strategy to prevent and/or manage CWD.
Under a baiting and feeding ban, disease outbreaks are more likely to be smaller in scale and more apt to
be contained or eliminated. With the long CWD incubation period and other factors that make discovery
of a new outbreak difficult, an outbreak that is already widespread when detected because of baiting and
feeding may not be able to be contained or eliminated.
Post by: Ironhead on February 25, 2008, 07:12:34 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 07:17:15 PM
I'm not saying that the disease cannot spread. That's the distinction and I have not changed my tune either.
I suppose Ironhead you provide a couple of examples worth bannng in someone's book. Stand hunting, hunting near any food source (everywhere in a forest is a food source).
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 07:22:35 PM
Society (Professional society for wildlife biologists, managers, and researchers; publisher of three
premier peer-reviewed scientific journals on wildlife ecology and management)...
“Concentration of deer and elk in captivity or in the wild by artificial feeding may increase the likelihood
of transmission between individuals.” (DeMarais et al. 2002, p. 6).
In a comprehensive review of the ecological and human social effects of artificial feeding and
baiting of wildlife prepared by the Canadian Cooperative Wildlife Health Centre, Department of
Veterinary Pathology, University of Saskatchewan...
“Significant ecological effects of providing food to wildlife have been documented through observation
and experimentation at the individual, population, and community levels. The increased potential for
disease transmission and outbreak is perhaps of greatest and immediate concern; recent outbreaks of
bovine tuberculosis and chronic wasting disease in Canada and the United States giving credence to this
point. Nevertheless, even if disease is prevented, other significant ecological concerns exist” (Dunkley
and Cattet 2003, p. 22)
Post by: singleshot12 on February 25, 2008, 07:23:40 PM
I think our image is damaged severely just by the thought of a hunter sitting in a stand, waiting for a hungary animal to come to a pile of corn so that a hunter (and I use this term loosely) can HUNT and kill them. This image is seen on tv day in and day out. It can't help our cause.You said it!, and that's got to have bred at least a million corn-fed anti-hunters.
Maybe if we stuck together to improve our own hunting laws the antis wouldn't have to do it for us :dunno:
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 07:24:49 PM
singleshot - just buying that hunting license already makes you into the enemy. Catering to their wants is not the solution as far as I can tell. They want to you to cater to their wishes. At that point you are under their influence.
In my opinion you'll regret any banning on baiting when you realize that you are making deals with the enemy.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 25, 2008, 07:28:01 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 07:41:03 PM
Post by: Curly on February 25, 2008, 07:44:34 PM
I would say no to any ban on baiting. I'm still pissed about the bear baiting ban, the ban on trapping, and the no hunting with hounds thing. I don't want to lose any more rights. I never have hunted over bait, and likely never will, but I don't feel like there are enough good reasons to prohibit others from doing it if that is what they want to do.
As long as there aren't too many deer being taken (to cause a problem with the population) then I don't see a problem with feeding them. And I seriously doubt that there are too many deer taken due to baiting them.
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 07:46:48 PM
baiting may not be the actual cause of the disease but is a big part of it being spread to other deer.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/Whealth/issues/Cwd/doc/cwdscsu.pdf (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/Whealth/issues/Cwd/doc/cwdscsu.pdf)
I'll post this whole research paper if you cannot open the link, I was just trying to conserve space. :chuckle:
Quote
I think you guys need to get out of the house and kill something
I agree with you !!
Post by: robb92 on February 25, 2008, 08:09:31 PM
Post by: Ironhead on February 25, 2008, 08:24:53 PM
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 08:27:29 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 25, 2008, 08:31:28 PM
What's worse? The wolves or the baiters?
Well one things for sure...when the wolves become well established in this state (and they will) the deer won't be spending a whole lotta time hanging out at bait stations anymore. :o
Post by: jackelope on February 25, 2008, 08:31:50 PM
those easterners would think all us western hunters that hike 5 miles in to hunt before daylight breaks have all gone bonkers.
different strokes for different folks.
united we stand, divided we fall.
i also don't think we are feeding the elk to keep them alive. i think we feed the elk to keep them out of the orchards and to keep the farmers happy on a side note.
Post by: bobcat on February 25, 2008, 08:34:24 PM
i also don't think we are feeding the elk to keep them alive. i think we feed the elk to keep them out of the orchards and to keep the farmers happy on a side note.
Feeding them to keep them out of the orchards is the same thing as feeding them to keep them alive.
Post by: jackelope on February 25, 2008, 08:39:01 PM
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 09:40:54 PM
It is going to be sad to have to tell my grandkids that we cannot hunt in Wisconsin anymore because my generation didn't do enough to protect the animals that were there.
It is pretty sad to see Wisconsin eradicate their entire population of deer in certain areas just because they might have a disease, and to think that just a few hundred miles away the same thing may happen in the near future if things don't change.
Weather it is legal or not is not the point and taking away rights is no argument either. I don't want to see anyones right to do anything taken away but I also don't want to see me in 25 more years apologizing to my grand kids for not doing enough.
Post by: boneaddict on February 25, 2008, 09:46:04 PM
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 10:51:37 PM
Ethical fair chase hunters don't need electronic advantages to be successful.
For the record, I am not criticizing any one personally, I am simply speaking up about something I feel strongly about and I appreciate your points of view, I may not like the methods some folks chose to use to kill off our game animals but I would feel worse if I had kept quiet about it.
Post by: Ray on February 25, 2008, 10:54:26 PM
I believe there can be some lessons learned from other places but the diversity of Washington state is not the same as Wisconsin so things that they are having problems with may not correlate to the same things here.
I also don't believe in the ban it now syndrome because it is much like a knee jerk reaction. I feel that the biologists will make a political move if they believe it is necessary to stop baiting and that it affects the population enough to justify it. I cerainly would hope that if it ever took place that it would be an interim solution instead of a permanent one though.
You still have not made the connection which I challenged though. And I don't think there is a study which exists in Washington state for you to do that but I would gladly read it if it was to magic itself out of thin air some day. Which is not impossible..
As far as electronic devices are concerned your tired old boring speeches about ethics are just that.
Post by: robodad on February 25, 2008, 11:48:53 PM
Quote
I think there is legitimate reason to be concerned but the sky isn't falling just yet
Tell that to the newest Wisconsin hunter education graduate who lives in a DEZ (Disease Eradication Zone) and cannot go out his back door any longer to hunt because the state had to kill them all because their biologists didn't make their political move soon enough.
Quote
I believe there can be some lessons learned from other places but the diversity of Washington state is not the same as Wisconsin so things that they are having problems with may not correlate to the same things here
What if they do ??
The point is that we know it exists and are there more studies being done, well sure there are. but we can't just look the other way until it affects us here, There may not be a study about CWD in Washington but Washington has already banned any sort of bones from entering the state so there must be some concern over it.
Wisconsin has deer and Washington has deer, that should be enough of a connection for you to see that there is a real possibility of this disease coming here and we should be trying harder to prevent that instead of "I'll fix it when it is broken"
I'm not going to spend a bunch of time researching more and more information that you are not going to understand so I'll just say that I simply disagree with baiting and I appreciate you views.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 26, 2008, 05:45:52 AM
Post by: Ray on February 26, 2008, 05:48:10 AM
In addition to that I don't believe I have suggested to look the other way and I also have nothing to do with telling some kid in Wisconsin what is going on.
You have continually attempted to make some conspiracy based around baiting and that it is a significant contributor to the spread of Chronic Waste Diseasee. If you actually take a look at what I have written here again and again you would be able to conclude that I do believe that it can be spread at bait or feeding stations but also that I don't believe it is the straw which broke the camels back when we discuss the impact on the population here. If there was information which directly proved that say 60% of animals that contract Chronic Waste Disease did so from someone's salt lick or feeding station then it would be a lot more compelling than a bunch of scare tactics and voodoo speculation. Tactics which make your argument to ban something which is likely to be having little effect on the population if you ask me.
Post by: singleshot12 on February 26, 2008, 06:08:04 AM
In my opinion you'll regret any banning on baiting when you realize that you are making deals with the enemy.
[/quote]I completely understand and agree with the points you are making and maybe banning baiting isn't the answer. I 'm all for baiting bear because that is the only way to keep the population in check,same with cougar hunting with hounds,-logic is it should have remained legal.
But my point is there is no need to hunt deer with bait,to me it takes away from the traditional way of deer hunting and takes very little skill to kill a deer over a baitstation and shouldn't be IMO associated with deer hunting, I guess keep it legal,but remove it from the fair-chase way of hunting.
As far as desease goes,anybody that's raised livestock knows that if you want healthy animals without antibiotics you have to be very careful when feeding.
One more thought, I've hunted ducks my whole life, and we always figured since baiting ducks was illegal it was because it's considered unsportsman-like,unfair,and unethical, IMO same goes for deer and elk.
Post by: Palmer on February 26, 2008, 06:13:19 AM
To me it wasn't so much an ethical issue but rather complaining about a favorite spot having less trophy class bucks due to someone elses success. I can't afford ten feeders with timers. More to them I guess.
The best thing for me to do is find a new area where no one is using feeders and probably harvesting 3+ trophy sized bucks a day.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 26, 2008, 06:44:38 AM
Post by: robodad on February 26, 2008, 09:27:54 AM
I agree that there is more that needs to be done on the subject but there is evidence that baiting spreads CWD no mater how small the percentage is don't you think it would be wise to discontinue a practice that has been proven to cause substantial harm to any deer population, It is like making your family eat somewhere you know will harm them but don't quit until they are sick :DOH:
Deer don't get sick directly from the feed, so I am not saying you are poisoning them, the fact is that when one deer gets sick the disease will spread through contact with other deer and by baiting them you invite a bunch of deer to congregate in an area with a sick deer and more will likely become ill.
Quote
That statement about banning trailcams is definitely far fetched. He is reaching for straws.
Have the use of trail cams actually helped you kill bigger and better animals ??
Quote
I also have nothing to do with telling some kid in Wisconsin what is going on.
No but you may be telling this to your grand son here in Washington in the near future !!
I can see this argument is going no where, I was just trying to bring a different perspective to the table and obviously some of you are completely unwilling to understand that though legal some of the stuff we do now could be determental in the future if we let it go.
:beatdeadhorse:
On a lighter note, You may see my kids on Americas Funniest Home Videos, or hear about them in the emergency room, My wife just bought them a new trampoline :violent1: and I have to go set it up now !!
Post by: Houndhunter on February 26, 2008, 06:11:21 PM
i have a hard time believing that whitetails there first year could produce that, over here. i have seen some dinky 3points with eye guards that they "say" our first years but they was from texas and other states that have some decent whitetail genes
Post by: Ray on February 26, 2008, 06:17:12 PM
Post by: Palmer on February 26, 2008, 09:01:52 PM
"saw three 4 points of maybe 1 1/2 years old"
i have a hard time believing that whitetails there first year could produce that, over here. i have seen some dinky 3points with eye guards that they "say" our first years but they was from texas and other states that have some decent whitetail genes
In the fall a deer in its first year would be 1/2 year old - a 2 point most likely if whitetail. A whitetail deer that will be a 4 point will be a 4 point in its second year or 1 1/2 years old and the same is true for a 5 pt or a 6 pt. A 4 point will still be a 4 point in its 6th year. However, every year their rack should be bigger with more forks in thier eyeguard until they are around 6 1/2 - 7 1/2 years old. If still alive at 10 1/2 they look old, some grey hair, and arthritic. Now a doe with antlers is worth thousands of dollars so take it straight to the taxidermy or don't mess up the cape.
Also, the whitetail in Idaho and Northeastern Washington are far bigger than Texas. If you go to Canada, they are even bigger. In fact many of the northern states have bigger whitetail than Texas. Try Ohio and Illinois. I haven't looked at Boone and Crocket but that only lists the size of their rack.
Post by: robodad on February 26, 2008, 10:04:56 PM
I am not sure what more evidence you need, maybe you think I am a biologist or something and have some deer at my house that I test every now and then to get evidence and that is not the case, Just like most folks in here I rely on google to gather information and have no reason to call dozens of biologists and researchers liers, since I have not done the testing myself.
Tell you what, why don't you post some evidence (not your opinion) that proves that CWD cannot be spread by baiting. then you may have a valid point.
Post by: Ray on February 26, 2008, 10:15:44 PM
As I have said before - I have never said that CWD was not capable of being spread by baiting. I can tell that you have not been actually digesting what I have continually pointed out. Here was my first response in this direction which was about 4 pages back. There were at least three more similar ones where I challenged you to provide evidence that baiting is the main contributor for CWD here in Washington
Quote
I'd say that unless there is some compelling reason to believe that hunting over bait for an animal is having devastating effects on the species' numbers then it should be off limits for banning.That is the evidence I need. Hope you got it because I have been saying that for about 4 pages and you still did not provide it yet.
The reason why it is not worth even responding to your challenge about me proving something that I don't believe in (that CWD cannot be spread by baiting) is 1) Well I don't believe it and have continually told you so. and 2) In america we usually work on the premise that someone should provide compelling evidence or examples why a practice should be banned. Not some self appointed expert talking about something without evidence.
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 26, 2008, 10:31:27 PM
I can see this argument is going no where, I was just trying to bring a different perspective to the table and obviously some of you are completely unwilling to understand that though legal some of the stuff we do now could be determental in the future if we let it go.
Yeah, we can "what if" the hell out of everything that comes to hunting and wether this person thinks it ethical or if this person doesnt. regardless what it comes down to is that someone in Washington state obviously doesnt think this is a problem. I am sure that here are alot of respected and highly trained professionals, biologist, and organizations out there that i am sure have probably looked at this, and have found out that this is not an issue. So lets not make it one. And *censored* like this isnt anything that we need to be worrieing about. its just like what Huntwa said" the sky isnt falling". This is a stupid yes or no question and im really supprised to see that there is as close to a disagreement on this as there is......
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH :bash:.......Why cant we argue about something that affects us now....something that is stopping us from doing what we all love to do. lets not pull stupid *censored* like this out of our asses.
ROBODAD, i totally hear and understand were you are comming from and understand that you worry for the next generation boom that is comming through. yeah i worry about things for there ggeneration also.....but Animal disease and Problems like what you are talking about are not any......
IF YOU WANT TO CONSENTRATE YOUR WORRIES ON SOMETHING FOR YOUR KIDS.......you may want to think about worrying about how we use to be able to walk out our back doors or drive 10 to 15 minutes max to go hunting. But now we have to travel half way across state hike half a day to get into a trustable area....and then still cross our fingers that we will see deer.....Sir everyday our mountains get smaller and smaller......you want to worry about a WHAT IF factor about our animals health. just remember that if you dont worry about the decrease in public hunting areas that there soon might not be anywhere for your kids to hunt....And really this is only one of a bunch of things that we should worry about......HUNTWA stated a couple as well. like the Wolf problem....trust me those arent just coyotes that are there for weekend target practice....
WORRY ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE THAT WILL EFFECT YOUR KIDS LATER BUT EFFECTS YOU NOW!!!
I hear your words and don't agree with you. That's it. I'm not convinced by scare tactics and information which is speculatory and suggestive. I am usually a facts person and if that is too much for some people then they'll have to realize some day that they can argue their points until their death but it may never change my mind. To me you have not proved anything by referencing general research known to most people who can google it. And hardly any of that is evidence which I specifically would consider to sway my opinion.
Agreed!..........I would try worrying about more important things....your Facts and findings dont even put a shred of worry that we may have this problem.....
Tell you what, why don't you post some evidence (not your opinion) that proves that CWD cannot be spread by baiting. then you may have a valid point.
Maybe some one should prove to us that this is something that we need to be wooried about right now!
BECAUSE IT ISNT!
Post by: Cougeyes on February 26, 2008, 10:31:39 PM
Post by: robodad on February 26, 2008, 10:41:30 PM
I am talking about a disease that is spread by deer gathering together in large numbers and sharing spit and nasal fluids on a bait pile that was put there by humans for the purpose of killing (hunting)them.
I have pointed out also that I don't know if there are any confermed cases of CWD here in Washington but it is on the Washington door step, it will just take one careless hunter to introduce contaminated tissue from a CWD zone and the population of deer and elk in Wa is in jeopardy.
It is quite obvious I don't know what you are talking about and clearly am no expert on anything. I'm sorry if what you need as evidence was not clearly written in what I posted, so I am going to let this subject die and move on to something else.
We disagree and that is cool with me !! :chuckle:
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 26, 2008, 11:07:29 PM
*TAKEN FROM YOUR POST*
• CWD is transmitted laterally (live diseased deer infect other deer)
Doesnt look like thats going to be a problem we are 5 states as the bird flys and it is against the law to transport such animals across state lines as far as i know
• Reduction of contact through a ban on baiting and feeding is likely very important to eradicating or containing a CWD outbreak.
Thats because they have the problem and didnt do anything about it untill it was to late. again its in wisconsin
• Baiting and feeding continues to put Wisconsin’s deer herd at risk to other serious diseases...Again not our deer, not idahos, not montannas
If this is something that starts spreading from state to state like the wolves or pigs then we will address it before it gets here. lets let the proffesionals worry about there jobs and not try to give any info hunting happy peta or Animal rights tree hugging left handers the info they need to start up one more thing to try taking away from us....like what you have clearly stated that you think should be banded and takin away from us.....like feeding and using game camers....Which both i believe should be legal and BOTH HAVE USED AND WILL CONTINUE TO USE.
Do you not think that enough stuff has already been taken away from us? How much more do we need taken away from us here to relize that we have problems that we need to worry about now!
LETS WORRY ABOUT OUR WASHINGTON NOW!
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 26, 2008, 11:20:21 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/cwd/factsheet.htm
heres some answers taken off the WDFW website for those that dont read off other sites........ ;)
What is chronic wasting disease?
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a disease of the central nervous system found in deer and elk. It is one form of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE). TSEs are infectious diseases of humans and animals that are caused by a deterioration of brain tissue. These diseases are progressive and always fatal.
Has CWD been found in Washington wildlife?
No. To date, there have been no confirmed cases of CWD in Washington deer or elk. like i said none here
Is the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife monitoring wildlife for CWD?
Yes. Correct
What is being done to minimize the risk of CWD?
Washington is considered a low-risk state for CWD because it is not adjacent to areas where the disease is endemic, and because the state took action a decade ago to curtail game farming, including banning the importation of live deer, elk and other cervid species that are native to Washington. That rule [Washington Administrative Code (WAC) 232-12-064], enacted in 1993, was an important step in reducing the risk of introducing CWD or other diseases into wild animal populations in this state
I was correct
Theres alot more info on the WDFW site so if theres anymore questions i think it is safe to say that Washington may have a different idea as to how we handle this CWD.....im thinking they got a good grasp!
1 Vote for yes to keep baiting deer legal 8)
Post by: robodad on February 26, 2008, 11:27:29 PM
CWD has been found in free-ranging cervids in Colorado, Illinois, Wyoming, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Saskatchewan, and Alberta. It has been found in captive herds in Colorado, Wyoming, Nebraska, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Kansas, Montana, Wisconsin, Minnesota and South Korea. The core endemic area is contiguous portions of Wyoming, Colorado, and Nebraska. The prevalence of CWD in this area is approximately <1% - 15% in mule deer and <1% in elk, although this varies greatly by location.
All I am trying to point out here is that it is not just a Wisconsin problem like you think, it is in other populations and you are right maybe it will never get here but I would error on the side of caution if it was up to me, and if it does make it here we can deal with it before it becomes a huge problem.
Quote
Thats because they have the problem and didnt do anything about it untill it was to late. again its in wisconsin
They must have thought like you do.
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 26, 2008, 11:45:33 PM
They must have thought like you do.That is an ignorant comment......
We can see that its not just a wisconsin problem...i read that also. Thanks ;).....
like i said and posted, Washington is watching and has already addressed this problem so that it doesnt become an ISSUE and is continuelly looking for cases so that they can study it further...........if you want to help then keep an eye out for the proposed signs while your out hunting and repot it if you see it.
Thank you though for worrying..... :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
robodad you have not said anything new for a while now.
Im over this as well you should be....
so I am going to let this subject die and move on to something else.
We disagree and that is cool with me !! :chuckle:
OK let it die then............
Post by: robodad on February 26, 2008, 11:57:05 PM
Post by: Palmer on February 27, 2008, 05:33:39 AM
Post by: Red Dawg on February 27, 2008, 06:11:42 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 27, 2008, 06:18:55 AM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on February 27, 2008, 06:59:55 AM
I would say to robodad and anyone else on here that what i said was not ment to be disrespectful. i just felt that a strong discussion needed to be discussed strongly. and that was my opinion.....so im sorry redawg if it or my past reply to post like the whast points to count bothered you. seriously i ment no disrespect.....
I would imagine that anti hunting zealots would be happy to see it here, just like the wolf.Yeah you are probably right iceman....unfortunatly so.
Post by: robodad on February 27, 2008, 08:43:30 AM
I hope more conversation turns out this way because it likely coaxed some of you folks to read about something you would have otherwise never paid attention to.
This a great board and the moderation is excellent (unlike other places I have been to) so I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to post my thoughts without the fear of being called names. You folks are great, keep up the good work !! :chuckle:
PS
Quote
Wow that post was hard to read !!
I meant hard to read because of the colors. It is like reading a page with black background and white text, makes my eyes wig out !!
Post by: jdb on February 27, 2008, 09:18:40 AM
I am going to go out on a limb and say that it could happen. CWD that is. Anything can be spread. Is it a big issue right now, probably not. But it could be. Nobody knows. Look at what happened to the deer up on Clemens and that area with the lice thing. I guess that killed a lot of deer according to John McGowan. So dont say this could never happen. I think that you are geeting a little disrespectful of other peoples opinions "Coasthunter".dont believe everything john mcgowen tells you JB
Post by: Red Dawg on February 27, 2008, 04:44:03 PM
Post by: Palmer on February 27, 2008, 08:24:17 PM
I've been to a wildlife preserve where there are maybe 2 out of 10 deer that are mature older bucks. There may have been 50 deer in a 20 or 30 acre area. Now if the same were true in the area I was hunting and within a week, the hunters with the 10 feeders have taken all the trophy bucks, then it will take a few years for that number to recover. Take away the feeders and they would have to put their skills and some patience to the test. They might also have tag soup but that's hunting.
It is legal though and that's fine but I think it would be better hunting if at least restricted.
Post by: jackelope on March 08, 2008, 08:41:29 PM
Quote
It is illegal in washington to shoot any big game off bait.
can you show me that in the regs?
fwiw i don't hunt over bait...never have and probably never will...but i think there are animals it is legal in washington to hunt over bait, as was previiously mentioned in this very thread.
Post by: bobcat on March 08, 2008, 08:45:05 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on March 08, 2008, 08:47:05 PM
It is illegal in washington to shoot any big game off bait. I feel anyone caught doing so should be punished to the full extent of the law and loose the privilege to hunt for life. It is not necessary to bait, all you have to do is hunt for them. If you have to do it the illegal way you should not be hunting. Remember that hunting is a privilege not a right. Us the ones' who do it the way it should be done need to ban together and get rid of the s.o.b.s that screw it up for and are children. Baiting takes away from what hunting is really albout and anyone who thinks they need to bait animals must just don't know how hunt! Supplement feeding is different than baiting. If we didn't supplement feed in some areas in the winter there would be no animals to hunt. It is our duty to make sure they remain healthy.
:chuckle:
Post by: archery288 on March 08, 2008, 09:11:47 PM
jackelope, you beat me to it. I was going to ask the same thing. Yep, there is no such law. I'm not sure where some people get the idea that baiting deer/elk is illegal. Maybe they assume that since baiting bear is illegal, it's the same for other big game. :dunno:
thats a good point bobcat, maybe people just assume it is illegal because of the bear situation?? I dunno?? As of right now it is legal and some people will continue to do it! Anyways, that is a hilarious post! must be jealous of someone he knows that hunts over bait or something and kills big animals??!! Just my thought on that post haha?? don't hunt over it myself, and never will!
Post by: Snowman on March 08, 2008, 09:32:30 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on March 08, 2008, 09:37:31 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 08, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Quote
Nothing personal though. Welcome to the site.
x2
Post by: billythekidrock on March 09, 2008, 07:20:39 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on March 12, 2008, 11:08:42 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 12, 2008, 12:32:14 PM
Post by: Intruder on March 12, 2008, 12:43:36 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on March 12, 2008, 01:54:51 PM
What about someone hunting on there own terms? hunting public property were there is a huge chance that someone else could shoot your deer that you have pretty much been grooming for a season or two? I hunt open public property and am very successful. But i am going to try my hand at supplimenting deer in my area this year and see if it helps with antler growth......and im not talking about using a feeder or throwing out corn. I am talking about high protein content Deer blocks. So if this at all works it will benefit any one in my area that shoots a deer that has been eating off the block......
And no i will not tell you were i am putting them.....lol
But come deer season i also plan on using a food attractant.
This also is my opinion and i will do this as long as i feel that this isnt working or that i am doing wrong otherwise. This year will be the first year that i use a food attractant, but i also plan on changing alot of things i do.
AGAIN MY . 02 CENTS
Post by: huntnphool on March 12, 2008, 02:41:13 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on March 12, 2008, 03:38:15 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on March 12, 2008, 08:04:24 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on October 06, 2009, 08:56:11 PM
The baiting causing desease is a huge stretch. These "studies" are hardly studies at all. Until you see the techniques that they use, you should not put much weight into such far fetched claims.
Deer yard up every winter. That is what they do naturally, but you could use the same arguments/studies to make the claim that this is bad and should be stopped.
What about food plots? It caused deer to feed together (even though they already do). It is all just silly.
STOP dividing us. Leave the laws alone and let's attack PETA not each other.
:twocents:
Post by: Kent Hunter on October 08, 2009, 03:00:41 AM
That being said, when we would find an area way back in, (we always did drop camps with Claude Miller) that had a bunch of those short bushes that had leaves that looked like Aspen tree leaves, we would sit and watch those areas alot. I think you guys know what vegetation I'm talking about. The leaves turned yellow that time of year and the deer just loved them. We shot alot of deer in those areas. I know that isn't a food plot or baiting but it was JUST like a food plot. They loved eating that stuff more than anything else. Over the years I've found wild apple trees while I was out hunting and have stayed and watched those tress and the apples on the ground for hours. Shot more than a deer or two while doing that also. Should I have left and just kept still hunting because it was like having a bait site around those apple trees?
The bottom line is that it is not illeagle to bait deer in this state. It's not my cup of tea but if it's someone elses than by all means go for it.
Post by: deaddog on October 08, 2009, 11:56:25 AM
Robo-dad,you said it ALL....I think alot of anti-hunting peaple would go neutral if they new we ALL hunted "fair chase", like I said before just cause it's legal doesn't make it right. Baiting falls right into the category of canned hunts,high-fence etc. and only leads to the demise of ALL hunting sooner or later.If you think that , you dont know the enemy at all. You guys might want to realy bone up on what these kind of issues are realy about. Between pita,the other anti-hunting groups and guys that spew this kind of mindless crap about, if I dont do it none should, we will lose our hunting one step at a time, crap, I cant even take my dog to shoot yotes anymore. Mark my words, keep it up and eventually, all we will have left is high fence hunts over bait and you will pay out your ass for that privilege.
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on October 08, 2009, 01:19:59 PM
Habitat distruction? Look at all the the whitetail habitat and tell me that that is hurting them. There in EVERY yard back east and in pretty much in every town.
Predators = zero cwd. No freaking way. That is so silly. So predators now stop bugs from biting deer?
Divide and conquer is the ONLY way they are going to beat us and looking at this thread doesn't give me high hopes.
Come on guys, you are really willing to take away someone elses rights just because it is not how you view "hunting"?
:bash:
the anti folks are bad news no doubt,,, but imo the REAL enemy is habitat destruction. with the money put up by us<hunters> all game management would fail. ordinary people understand this.. as far as baiting goes. why does it need to be legal?..crossbows?..no way...i think we should police our own ranks.. the old divide and conquer tactic doesnt have the muscle like some folks believe it does...wolves.. not too bad.. look at regions with healthy predator populations and you will find zero cwd
Post by: xXx Archery on October 18, 2009, 11:38:07 PM
Post by: SHANE(WA) on October 20, 2009, 12:54:43 AM
a few on here need to listen carefully, the end is the best, keyword CHOICES!! :bash: some will never get it!
Post by: xXx Archery on October 20, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
Post by: upriver on October 20, 2009, 08:37:01 AM
Post by: bearpaw on October 20, 2009, 09:01:08 AM
Robo-dad,you said it ALL....I think alot of anti-hunting peaple would go neutral if they new we ALL hunted "fair chase", like I said before just cause it's legal doesn't make it right. Baiting falls right into the category of canned hunts,high-fence etc. and only leads to the demise of ALL hunting sooner or later.If you think that , you dont know the enemy at all. You guys might want to realy bone up on what these kind of issues are realy about. Between pita,the other anti-hunting groups and guys that spew this kind of mindless crap about, if I dont do it none should, we will lose our hunting one step at a time, crap, I cant even take my dog to shoot yotes anymore. Mark my words, keep it up and eventually, all we will have left is high fence hunts over bait and you will pay out your ass for that privilege.
Post by: SHANE(WA) on October 20, 2009, 03:44:05 PM
Post by: PolarBear on October 20, 2009, 04:21:06 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 22, 2009, 09:11:31 AM
If you go to the polls and baiting is on the ballot, will you vote against it since you do not beleive in it. My guess is that you will.
Now, I can tell you there a tons of gun hunters who hate bowhunters and think bowhunting is the ruination of elk and deer hunting in this state. If they go to the polls and bow hunting is on the ballot, will they vote against it? Again my guess is that yes they will.
My point is simple, we are all voting each others activities and rights away. We must support each other or you will all continue to lose.....period.... :twocents:
Post by: NWBREW on October 22, 2009, 09:53:23 AM
Post by: KimberRich on October 22, 2009, 09:55:37 AM
Post by: NWBREW on October 22, 2009, 09:57:09 AM
Post by: bearpaw on October 22, 2009, 02:22:25 PM
First let me say, I am an everything hunter, love bow hunting and any other type of hunting, I support everyone that is a legal hunter or recreator, or whatever.
But honestly, I will stake my reputation on the fact that there is a significant portion of rifle hunters who believe bowhunters cause undue damage to the herds. I hear it all the time with clients about how bowhunting is ruining hunting.
I don't beleive that at all, but when bow hunting is on the ballot someday, these guys will be voting against it.
This is one of the big reasons I am trying to get people to understand that we must all support each other. Hunters commenting on this site alone confirm in my mind the fact that they would readily go to the polls and vote against all kinds of activities they don't personally beleive in, the problem being they simply cannot understand that they may be next on the ballot.
Post by: bearpaw on October 22, 2009, 02:26:36 PM
Post by: Ray on October 22, 2009, 02:29:30 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 22, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
If you haven't watched this, you need to watch it:
Shane was right, listen to the end very closely, this is what is happening across America.
Post by: NWBREW on October 22, 2009, 03:53:49 PM
I want to add this, I am a hound dogger and a trapper, it has already happened to me twice, who's next......
Thanks for your input bearpaw and Ray. I geuss I have to claim ignorance on my part. That is truely a shame. Like I said before, I have hunted with a bow and rifle and enjoyed both and would not want to lose either one. I have not done muzzy but hope to some day. I geuss if I would have thought about it more I would have seen it. I have seen it on this vary site going both ways.
It has happened to alot of us. I used to bait bear back in the 80's and not till you mentioned hound doggin did I remember houndhunters vs baiters and vis versa. Fighting amognst each other and who came out on top....Nobody. It wasn't houndhunters that lost...it wasn't baithunters that lost....it was all Hunters that lost. So I geuss there is no difference. If one loses...we all lose.
Post by: bearpaw on October 22, 2009, 04:17:22 PM
I want to add this, I am a hound dogger and a trapper, it has already happened to me twice, who's next......
Thanks for your input bearpaw and Ray. I geuss I have to claim ignorance on my part. That is truely a shame. Like I said before, I have hunted with a bow and rifle and enjoyed both and would not want to lose either one. I have not done muzzy but hope to some day. I geuss if I would have thought about it more I would have seen it. I have seen it on this vary site going both ways.
It has happened to alot of us. I used to bait bear back in the 80's and not till you mentioned hound doggin did I remember houndhunters vs baiters and vis versa. Fighting amognst each other and who came out on top....Nobody. It wasn't houndhunters that lost...it wasn't baithunters that lost....it was all Hunters that lost. So I geuss there is no difference. If one loses...we all lose.
NWBREW you are exactly right, we (all hunters) lost, and the antis won, if I was them I would still be laughing at the bickering between hunters. I thought Nuge really spelled it out well.
One thing I think should be said, the members on this forum are all passionate about hunting and wanting to do what is right and that is good, but sometimes we let our passion for doing what's right get in the way of preserving the various hunting sports because we get caught up in these little arguments when really we should be supportive of each other activities.
Post by: SHANE(WA) on October 22, 2009, 05:12:40 PM
I am real interested to hear from the people who voted illegal, then tell us how you prefer to hunt and techniques, cause they will be people out there that are against one form or another always,we keep this crap up every form of hunting will be banned and then no hunting period, think people. The hunters that voted on the "NO" to bear baiting and hound hunting should be ashamed of themselves, you are not hunters
Post by: PolarBear on October 22, 2009, 06:30:27 PM
polar not trying to start a huge argument here but rather make a point....No I will not and have not voted against it just like I didn't for for banning hunting with hounds even though it is something I don't see as sporting. Like I said, Just because it is something I will not partake in doesn't give me the right to tell someone else that they shouldn't especially when it comes to hunting. If it is legal, go for it, I don't care just don't expect a pat on the back from me (as if that had any meaning anyway).
If you go to the polls and baiting is on the ballot, will you vote against it since you do not believe in it. My guess is that you will.
Now, I can tell you there a tons of gun hunters who hate bowhunters and think bowhunting is the ruination of elk and deer hunting in this state. If they go to the polls and bow hunting is on the ballot, will they vote against it? Again my guess is that yes they will.
My point is simple, we are all voting each others activities and rights away. We must support each other or you will all continue to lose.....period.... :twocents:
I guess that anyone who disagrees with Shane(WA) should be ashamed? Shane, once again, some of us don't have to rely on baiting to consistently harvest quality animals and are not in the least "ashamed" to disagree with the practice.
Post by: SHANE(WA) on October 23, 2009, 07:50:41 AM
Post by: PolarBear on October 23, 2009, 07:27:07 PM
Post by: ribka on October 23, 2009, 08:25:28 PM
One afternoon sitting on my stand and I see a guy ina neighboring property drive out with his ATV pulling a big trailer full of corn. He drives into his woods and dumps it. Must have been 200 lbs of corn. And he leaves. About 15 minutes later about 8 does and fawns come running up to the pile and start feeding.
I call the game warden later because baiting was never legal in WI. He tells me me that the practice of feeding was legalized and can only set out a few lbs of corn/fed a day. I tell him about the guy dumping over 200 lbs and he said that so many people violate the new feeding statute there is nothing he can do about it. After a few days called a friend who is a game biologist. He advised that 1000's of "hunters" in WI were buying several 100 lb bags of corn a week and dumping on their land in prep for hunting season. Was told that it changed the deer behavior and they would tend to stay on land where the corn plies were located and tended to be more nocturnal for some reason. The game biologist also stated that he was concerned that all of the deer were feeding in small concentrated areas and there was a big concern by him and other biologists that the corn piles would hasten the spread of CWD and other diseases.
Needless to say I stopped returning home to hunt after that. Baiting really ruined the experience of hunting for me.
May be ok for some guys but "Texas style of hunting" not for me :twocents: