Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 06, 2010, 04:01:19 PM
Elaborate in your post, and if there isn't an option for you then post what you think.
Ill start:
I think they are fine as long as they are relatively quiet, and stay on the road/designated paths. I hate it when I see them behind closed gates, or out in the open meadows illegally. For sake of the environment, animals being spooked, and the other hunters.
Post by: rb2506 on July 06, 2010, 04:07:16 PM
Post by: gasman on July 06, 2010, 04:07:41 PM
And, it is Legal to ride them off road and behind gates in some areas.
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 06, 2010, 04:15:33 PM
Post by: jameslong on July 06, 2010, 04:25:10 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on July 06, 2010, 04:48:58 PM
I don't mind because I won't be hunting areas where vehicles are allowed.
You should mind because part of the problem is a percentage of the "riders" don't care about locked gates, private property, wilderness areas etc.
Post by: jameslong on July 06, 2010, 04:53:03 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on July 06, 2010, 05:00:05 PM
Post by: kramman on July 06, 2010, 05:10:53 PM
Post by: jstone on July 06, 2010, 06:10:52 PM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 06, 2010, 06:11:12 PM
Post by: alanger on July 07, 2010, 07:28:50 AM
Post by: h20hunter on July 07, 2010, 08:05:14 AM
Post by: Gutpile on July 07, 2010, 06:54:17 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on July 07, 2010, 08:45:25 PM
The ones I have seen when I am hunting are louder than a normal truck. Many of the areas I hunt are steeper than snot and I have not seen anyone wheeling them off the gravel.
They sit on a $5000 noisy cold gravel cruiser, I sit in a nice warm $2000 hunting rig with all the comforts of home. :P
(They look cool with all that camo and gunrack, spare fuel tank, knuckle saver, spotlight, winch and axe holders.....) Maybe I should get one.... :dunno:
Post by: Special T on July 09, 2010, 09:09:04 AM
Post by: haus on July 09, 2010, 09:18:24 AM
The question is, What do you think about atv, motorcycle, rhino use in Wa during deer or elk seasons. I know that it is a growing issue, and that the number of riders in our elk area was astounding last season.Is this specifically referring to hunters using offroad vehicles during hunting season or is it including offroad vehicle users in general? I don't have a problem with either so long as they are abiding by the law.
Elaborate in your post, and if there isn't an option for you then post what you think.
Ill start:
I think they are fine as long as they are relatively quiet, and stay on the road/designated paths. I hate it when I see them behind closed gates, or out in the open meadows illegally. For sake of the environment, animals being spooked, and the other hunters.
If your against atv/motorcycle enthusiasts riding in a legal manner in legal area's during your precious hunting season then I recommend you learn to be more tolerant, it's OUR land, suck it up! :tup:
If you oppose them, then tell me what makes you any different than an anti-hunting hiker not wanting to see us out hunting bears during their August nature walks? not a damn thing, its the same exercise of selfishness and intolerance.
When there's an early snowfall we get a few snowmobilers in the 560 unit during MF elk. Does it annoy me? Yeah a little, but I'm not going to oppose their enjoyment. Heck I wouldn't mind hoping on one myself, those things are a blast to ride :)
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 09, 2010, 09:49:38 AM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 09, 2010, 11:34:57 AM
I am referring mostly in general, but more so during hunting season.
I am indeed referring to a legal matter, if they are riding them off road "llegally" that is not cool. Like I originally stated. If they are riding them legally in an area where its okay, then thats cool too. ;) Its just when people ride them where and when they aren't supposed to that I get heated.
Before you start throwing words like selfish or intolerant out there I would appreciate it if you read a little more closely. I clearly stated the word ILLEGALLY
And yes motor vehicles are a blast to ride and I don't have anything against them when used appropriately. I have a YZ 250 F motocross bike. Have been riding since I was about 5. Never used it while hunting because it is wayyyyyy too loud for that kind of stuff. I just keep it to the tracks, and ORV parks.
And jeep,
Thats great! Thats what I think they should really be used for, and I admire you for following the rules. Don't you get a disability use permit so you can go off the trails? That I think is totally cool too as long as you again are following the rules and don't abuse the matter. :tup:
Post by: gasman on July 09, 2010, 12:13:25 PM
And jeep,
Thats great! Thats what I think they should really be used for, and I admire you for following the rules. Don't you get a disability use permit so you can go off the trails? That I think is totally cool too as long as you again are following the rules and don't abuse the matter. :tup:
Having a disability permit does not give a person the legal right to go off road.
If it is legal for one to ride off road, then itis legal for all to ride off road (unless specific stated).
Post by: norsepeak on July 09, 2010, 12:28:03 PM
Post by: gasman on July 09, 2010, 12:34:02 PM
For the folks who don't like them, keep in mind that they are LEGAL to be offroad an ALL federal land which is Forest Service land. Just the opposite on state land: they are only legal on green dot roads. That being said, I ride ATV's and dirtbikes a lot and really enjoy them, but the only time I use one during hunting season is for retrieval of game. When I'm out scouting I see LOTS of elk, deer, goats and even a few bears from the seat of my quad. The argument that they scare animals is crazy, they are not louder than any diesel truck out there....I've heard some loud Ford diesels coming up roads for more than a mile away before. Granted there are those who abuse the privelage, but that happens with anything....If you want to make sure your hunting experience is not going to be disturbed by motorized users, then go hunt in the wilderness, I do.
Untill you get that old guy riding his moped off the trail in to the wilderness are where his tree stand and salt lick are.
You know where i am talking about ;)
It was funny when the guy crashed right in front of Doug and did not see him :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 09, 2010, 01:43:04 PM
Post by: halflife65 on July 09, 2010, 02:01:43 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on July 09, 2010, 02:03:11 PM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 09, 2010, 03:05:14 PM
And jeep,
Thats great! Thats what I think they should really be used for, and I admire you for following the rules. Don't you get a disability use permit so you can go off the trails? That I think is totally cool too as long as you again are following the rules and don't abuse the matter. :tup:
Having a disability permit does not give a person the legal right to go off road.
If it is legal for one to ride off road, then itis legal for all to ride off road (unless specific stated).
Oh I guess the specific deal is where I lost it, I was reading this article.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/outreach/access/accessibility/roadaccess.htm (http://wdfw.wa.gov/outreach/access/accessibility/roadaccess.htm)
And for everyone else. This topic is really a discussion about people abusing their motor vehicles. For example people riding off of posted roads in areas that are a green dot system.
I have no problem with atvs,dirt bikes, rhinos. Just if they are abused is when I get upset over the matter :chuckle: I have already stated that I own a dirt bike and ride all the time, is following the rules really that hard? :dunno:
Here is a little excerpt I keep finding when researching the issue.
Except for roads open by green dot designation, all roads and trails are closed to all wheeled motor vehicles including ATVs. Violators will be subject to prosecution pursuant to W.A.C. 232.12.187. Closing sensitive areas helps protect fish from sediment running off of roads, migratory routes of big game, wildlife habitat, and timber and road resources while allowing for safe and fun recreation opportunities. The green dot roads are meant to remain at a net amount of miles, so when one section is removed from the management agreement, another may be added of equal length. Roads designated as green dot can change as harvest or sites are identified which may need protection or rehabilitation. We appreciate help from users in maintaining and educating about our green dot system!
The reason I am upset about it is this. Last elk hunting season (I hunt in a green dot controlled area by the way), I would hike off the open roads, often using closed blocked off old logging roads as a trail. I swear that on every blocked unmarked old skid road there was at least one set of atv tracks, or motorcycle tracks.
Post by: haus on July 09, 2010, 03:14:19 PM
Haus,I quoted because of the questions I had, everything after that is aimed at specifically who I say its aimed at, it wasn't aimed at you. You said in your first post that you were okay with their legal use. I got that. Sorry if it came across as if my words after the first paragraph were aimed at you.
I am referring mostly in general, but more so during hunting season.
I am indeed referring to a legal matter, if they are riding them off road "llegally" that is not cool. Like I originally stated. If they are riding them legally in an area where its okay, then thats cool too. ;) Its just when people ride them where and when they aren't supposed to that I get heated.
Before you start throwing words like selfish or intolerant out there I would appreciate it if you read a little more closely. I clearly stated the word ILLEGALLY
Not sure if your polls going to clearly represent what your looking for though, maybe I'm just not sure what your trying to get out of this, because legal vs. illegal use isn't separated in the poll or defined. Seems that its sorta mixed in with the 4 choices. :dunno:
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 09, 2010, 03:17:48 PM
I quoted because of the questions I had, everything after that is aimed at specifically who I say its aimed at, it wasn't aimed at you. You said in your first post that you were okay with their legal use. I got that. Sorry if it came across as if my words after the first paragraph were aimed at you.
Not sure if your polls going to clearly represent what your looking for though, maybe I'm just not sure what your trying to get out of this, because legal vs. illegal use isn't separated in the poll or defined. Seems that its sorta mixed in with the 4 choices. :dunno:
Thanks for the clarification on that!
Ya i think your right. This appears to have taken several different directions. It is interesting to see what everyone thinks however. I just wish everyone would follow the rules, I guess thats about it.
Post by: haus on July 09, 2010, 03:50:17 PM
I've also rode with disabled hunters in gated access area's as the designated meat packer/game dispatcher. I got no problem with it. Though I've only been with people who are para or quadraplegic. A few years back, in a disabled hunter access area south of eburg(dont recall name of it) I was riding along with my buddy and his dad thats parapalegic, we came up on this truck and both hunters were standing outside of it bs'ing. We pulled up and started the usual conversation hunters have, I ventured to ask one of the guys about his injuries, he said he had a bum knee. :dunno: not sure how I feel bout that ya know, but this is a subject where its difficult to draw the line.
Post by: haus on July 09, 2010, 03:51:23 PM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 09, 2010, 04:26:58 PM
I've seen disabled hunters use atv's in a manner that allows them to hunt in area's and for some game species that would otherwise never be accessible to them, I think this is very cool to see :) A little loss of peace and quite is worth giving up once in awhile for someone who has it much more difficult in life than I.
I agree, if someone is disabled, they should have all the right in the world to use a vehicle to hunt places that people non disabled cant. A vehicle to them is like their legs.
Post by: gasman on July 09, 2010, 04:35:42 PM
I've seen disabled hunters use atv's in a manner that allows them to hunt in area's and for some game species that would otherwise never be accessible to them, I think this is very cool to see :) A little loss of peace and quite is worth giving up once in awhile for someone who has it much more difficult in life than I.
I agree, if someone is disabled, they should have all the right in the world to use a vehicle to hunt places that people non disabled cant. A vehicle to them is like their legs.
You are correct but there are many on this site that disagree with you. This is not a new discussion and some can get ugly. :(
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 09, 2010, 04:37:43 PM
I've seen disabled hunters use atv's in a manner that allows them to hunt in area's and for some game species that would otherwise never be accessible to them, I think this is very cool to see :) A little loss of peace and quite is worth giving up once in awhile for someone who has it much more difficult in life than I.
I agree, if someone is disabled, they should have all the right in the world to use a vehicle to hunt places that people non disabled cant. A vehicle to them is like their legs.
You are correct but there are many on this site that disagree with you. This is not a new discussion and some can get ugly. :(
Ya I think I am just about done with this thread, I should have known better. :'( haha some things are better left alone. Especially over the internet where things can be confusing or misleading.
Post by: gasman on July 09, 2010, 04:41:25 PM
I've seen disabled hunters use atv's in a manner that allows them to hunt in area's and for some game species that would otherwise never be accessible to them, I think this is very cool to see :) A little loss of peace and quite is worth giving up once in awhile for someone who has it much more difficult in life than I.
I agree, if someone is disabled, they should have all the right in the world to use a vehicle to hunt places that people non disabled cant. A vehicle to them is like their legs.
You are correct but there are many on this site that disagree with you. This is not a new discussion and some can get ugly. :(
Ya I think I am just about done with this thread, I should have known better. :'( haha some things are better left alone. Especially over the internet where things can be confusing or misleading.
Don't be discouraged, it creates good discusions and points of view :cue:
Post by: alecvg on July 09, 2010, 09:38:40 PM
Post by: ML_Hunter on July 10, 2010, 07:53:55 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 10, 2010, 08:00:30 PM
I use one because I have had 3 knee surgery's on my right knee and cannot walk more than a 1/2 mile. I do, however, us it responsibly and only on roads/trails designated for use. I know I cannot get miles in anymore, but it helps me get around.
I sympathize. Back before my ticker started betraying me, I used to do VERY well just mapping out the areas ATVs couldn't access, and hunting those 3-4 days after the opener (WY, not WA).
I've had a friend use one to pack my elk from the closest accessible point to my truck. I only had to pack 1/2 mile downhill, and appreciated it.
I do think, though, that as we become mobility limited, we need to appreciate what we had when we had all our health and mobility, and not fight to degrade everything to a highly accessible state. There are places I will never see again, but that doesn't mean i should be able to ride an ATV in there either.
Post by: high country on July 13, 2010, 01:18:02 PM
Post by: GoldTip on July 13, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 18, 2010, 11:13:05 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on July 23, 2010, 08:15:50 PM
I've seen disabled hunters use atv's in a manner that allows them to hunt in area's and for some game species that would otherwise never be accessible to them, I think this is very cool to see :) A little loss of peace and quite is worth giving up once in awhile for someone who has it much more difficult in life than I.
I agree, if someone is disabled, they should have all the right in the world to use a vehicle to hunt places that people non disabled cant. A vehicle to them is like their legs.
You are correct but there are many on this site that disagree with you. This is not a new discussion and some can get ugly. :(
The sierra club, wilderness society, and DOW really like it when we pick on each other to further their agenda. We are all user groups that all of them want to REGULATE as much as possible. DON'T even own one, yet hunt with a disabled partner. Shall we fall into their trap?
Post by: colockumelk on August 08, 2010, 06:54:36 AM
IMHO the state should put out notice that if in a GMU there is noticable illegal ORV use during the big game season unless you have a disabled permit ORV use will be ILLEGAL for hunters in that GMU during big game seasons! Except in places like the Manastash and Taneum where its got trails all over it specifically for ORV use. Abuse the simple and easy to follow laws as a user group and you lose your user group prrivelages.
And here's the problem. Most ATV guys I've talked to (that's right MOST) think that they have the right to ride anywhere and closed roads infringe upon that right. I Remember.her last year catching a ton of flack for wanting to fund gates in the Colockum for roads already closed.
I have an easy and fair solution to that problem. If you are caught behind a closed road you will not be fined. Instead you will be sent the bill for a construction crew to put in a gate on the road that you were on. If there's already a gate you will no longer have an ATV. A big part of the problem is currently there is no deterrance from breaking the law. You have to GIVE people a reason not to break the law. Currently there is none.
Post by: haus on August 09, 2010, 12:33:46 PM
Post by: colockumelk on August 10, 2010, 04:32:07 AM
If this still doesn't work then I say severely restrict the privelages. I believe in the military style of thinking. If the platoon can't police their own up and follow simple instructions, then that means the Platoon Sergeant has to come in and MAKE them follow simple instructions. And for those of us that have been in the military we know that that is a BAD DAY. :yike:
So people please don't make the State or Law Enforcement step in. Police your own an then they wont have to. All it takes is to stop the person and say something. Its not hard. I do it every year. I have yet to have a problem. They know they're wrong so they comply. If they give you crap just say "sorry" as they drive away snap a picture or get down their permit number or a vehicle description and call the authorities.
Post by: Alan K on August 23, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
Post by: gasman on August 23, 2010, 06:26:40 PM
Legal or not I hate 'em. . .
Don't be Hater, It's a waste of your time.
Be a Lover, It pays off.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: edmondshunter on August 30, 2010, 06:55:39 PM
I don't want to bad apple them but I gotta. Just like any other D bag moves hunters make, it'll be the end to public access hunting in many areas. Accountability is impossible to uphold all the time and people take advantage of that fact. We can add this one to the list of reasons hunting might become a lost family pastime in our near future.
Sad but true. :bdid:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 31, 2010, 07:52:32 AM
-Steve
Post by: runamuk on August 31, 2010, 07:57:19 AM
Legal or not I hate 'em. . .
Don't be Hater, It's a waste of your time.
Be a Lover, It pays off.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
nice and I totally agree ;)
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on August 31, 2010, 09:14:43 AM
The Tusayan Ranger District of the Kaibab National Forest has issued a draft plan for managing off-highway vehicle (OHV) use. OHV use will be restricted to those roads and trails designated in the plan, depending on which management alternative is selected following public review and comment. Tusayan Ranger District offers four plan alternatives for managing OHV use. Alternative 1 is the status quo and is used as a baseline to compare the changes to be made in OHV use by the other alternatives. Alternatives 2 and 3 allow motorized big game retrieval up to a mile off of a designated road or trail. Alternative 4 allows no such exemption for hunters using OHVs for game retrieval. Comments on the plan are being accepted until August 30th and can be emailed to comments-southwestern-kaibab-tusayan@fs.fed.us. The plan can be found online by going to http://fs.usda.gov/goto/kaibab/projects (http://fs.usda.gov/goto/kaibab/projects) and look for the Tusayan Travel Management Project. If you have questions about the plan or need additional information, you may call 928-635-5649.
Post by: BlackRidge on September 09, 2010, 02:45:48 PM
That being said, I'd love to have one, but it almost defeats the purpose of the hunt IMO :twocents:
Post by: woodswalker on September 09, 2010, 03:09:27 PM
Post by: sako223 on September 09, 2010, 03:51:30 PM
I use mine all I can and run into problems and attitudes often.
I especially hate the closures and see it as very selfish by some.
Being that I cannot walk a single step, these increasing closures continue to take ground away that I and others will never get to see or use.
However as equal access I do see plenty of able bodies, horse hunters, and cheaters in Disabled access areas. Definitely a one way street.
Post by: Gutpile on September 10, 2010, 08:04:03 PM
Post by: Special T on September 13, 2010, 07:04:44 AM
Post by: alanger on September 13, 2010, 07:19:33 AM
Post by: Tman on September 14, 2010, 03:22:43 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 14, 2010, 09:31:58 AM
Post by: chester on November 14, 2010, 09:36:22 AM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on November 14, 2010, 10:17:13 PM
Post by: jstone on November 15, 2010, 01:06:39 PM
Post by: ML_Hunter on December 04, 2010, 07:44:39 PM
Post by: Bunny Thumper on December 04, 2010, 08:07:25 PM
Post by: GlennGTR on December 04, 2010, 08:09:42 PM
Post by: Malardman on December 06, 2010, 05:32:37 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 07, 2010, 05:46:54 AM
ATVS are truly for the lardly and lethargic at heart, so why not just stay home and play Cabelas big game hunter instead and leave the woods to the hunters.
:yike: Nice poke in the eye Glenn... :chuckle:
I had an unfortunate run in with a guy this season. A legally open NF road, the road is horribly closed in by brush, only about a mile and a half long. I parked at "way too early" at the start of the road and walked in by moonlight to where I wanted to start hunting at first light. Then, as good light approached here he came, a guy riding a quad. This is late in the modern season, my kids sort of blew their hunt earlier and now they are at home with mom and this is near the end of my time limited hunt, not gone well yet and I was a bit pissy. The fellow rides up and I stand in the middle of the road to talk at him and let him know that he is ruining the sport for everyone. I said that normal guys can't even walk in a road quietly without "you" guys running ahead of em'..... I turned and kept walking. He sat on his bike in the dark, shut off the engine and let his lights point ahead of him down the road as I walked off. I felt like I was about to take a 7mm round to the back...and got mad at myself for the confrontation.
I tried to hunt quietly as the light was now legal. I was distracted for sure, now worrying about the guy. Ten minutes later, I could hear an engine coming, this is still about only 15 minutes into shooting light. The noise was a motorcycle, and followed closely by his buddy on the quad. I get the feeling that the quad runner called his buddy to back him up and continue to drive in the 1/2 mile left of road? :dunno:
They passed me as I glassed a ruined hunt.
Post by: C-Money on December 08, 2010, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: SCRUBS on December 12, 2010, 08:23:37 AM
No shame in riding a quad when rules are followed.
^^^^^What he said^^^^^^
No i don`t own one, nor have i ever owned one.