Post by: Antlerking on July 14, 2010, 03:53:55 PM
Post by: ing on July 14, 2010, 04:07:48 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 14, 2010, 04:17:28 PM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on July 14, 2010, 04:28:32 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 14, 2010, 05:08:09 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 14, 2010, 05:08:35 PM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on July 14, 2010, 05:40:06 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on July 14, 2010, 05:46:49 PM
Post by: Lowedog on July 14, 2010, 06:05:05 PM
If they do have some extra harvest this year lets hope they don't have a free for all like they did before.
Post by: Ray on July 14, 2010, 06:31:37 PM
Archery 2003 General
247 ENTIAT 166 Total
Archery 2003 No reports of anything in 2003 for archery Special
Modern 2003 General
247 ENTIAT 138 Total
Modern 2003 Special
1041 Entiat A 48 Total
Archery 2004 General
247 ENTIAT 1 Total
Archery 2004 Special
1137 Entiat B 29 Total
1138 Entiat C 16 Total
Modern 2004 General
247 ENTIAT 264 Total
Modern 2004 Special
1041 Entiat A 43 Total
Archery 2005
247 - ENTIAT
PMU: P26 3 Total
Modern 2005 General
247 - ENTIAT 164 Total
2005 Special Permits (it's hard to tell what hunt belongs to what user group)
1040 Entiat A 37 Total (100% success)
1135 Entiat B 81 Total
1136 Entiat C 41 Total
Archery 2006
247 - ENTIAT 22 Total
Modern 2006
247 - ENTIAT 97 Total
2006 Special Permits
1042 Entiat A 45 Total
1151 Entiat B 54 Total
1152 Entiat C 45 Total
Archery 2007
247 - ENTIAT 29 Total
Modern 2007 General
247 - ENTIAT 174 Total
2007 Special Permits (it's hard to tell what hunt belongs to what user group)
1041 ENTIAT A 54 Total
1149 ENTIAT B 53 Total
1150 ENTIAT C 32 Total
1169 ENTIAT E 4 Total
1206 ENTIAT F 14 Total
2008 General
247 - ENTIAT
Archery 26
Modern Firearms 116 Total
Special Permit 2008
1039 Entiat A GMU 247 38 Total
1147 Entiat B GMU 247 40 Total
1168 Entiat E GMU 247 5 Total
1206 Entiat F GMU 247 9 Total
1245 Entiat G GMU 247 23 Total
2009 General
247 - ENTIAT
Archery 31 Total
Modern Firearms 162 Total
2009 Special Permits
247 - ENTIAT 72 Total for all weapon groups
Post by: WABONEHNTR on July 14, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
Post by: Ray on July 14, 2010, 07:52:53 PM
Post by: 50CalJim on July 14, 2010, 08:25:46 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 14, 2010, 08:39:51 PM
Post by: gasman on July 14, 2010, 08:42:14 PM
:mor:
Never mind, you would not get it :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: KillerMiller on July 14, 2010, 08:42:30 PM
Post by: flyguide on July 14, 2010, 08:55:53 PM
Post by: 400out on July 15, 2010, 09:47:11 AM
Post by: Bows4huntn on July 15, 2010, 03:30:27 PM
Post by: hirshey on July 17, 2010, 08:57:07 PM
Or maybe it will... you all should make sure not to hunt there this year. :chuckle: That's probably more like it.
Post by: joebear on July 27, 2010, 10:54:30 PM
Post by: THunt on July 28, 2010, 07:59:42 AM
Post by: Elkpiss on July 28, 2010, 10:47:31 AM
You know my dad used to go up there every year I would go with him and the year I started hunting was the last year he took me up there :bash: I just wonder how different it would be if I would have kept going! :dunno: he would tell me stories of when you couldn't drive to the hole ( what he called it ) you would fill the trunk of the car will as many rock as it took to get traction and go as far as you could :chuckle: and look at old stormy mt you had to do it on horse back, I would kill to be able to go back in time and hunt that area before it was known to all! Also on the topic of mass kills I heard that after the Tri-pod fire that the deer came threw there and was a absolute war zone! I wasn't there thats just what I heard!I agree Fly guide.. I agree, i liked to get pumped up thats why i even use this site.. I dont like to read the gripping.. It is what it is, i know and everyone else knows nothing is going to chage dramadically if everyone did something to manage game today.. Game management runs in cycles, it could be good area for a few year then $hit the next.. Everything runs in Cycles for the most part... Im with you fly guide, i dont like reading the gripping, i just like the good $hit.. I was studing maps last night too...
Post by: grundy53 on July 28, 2010, 11:58:46 AM
Post by: jstone on July 28, 2010, 12:05:36 PM
Post by: grundy53 on July 28, 2010, 12:11:36 PM
where you up high when you saw these deer??
From the 5340 on the low end to the 8500 on the high end. Seen deer on dang near every road in between and including these roads. Even the main 5300 line.
Post by: Redmist on July 29, 2010, 11:40:58 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on July 30, 2010, 12:09:56 PM
Post by: Lowedog on July 30, 2010, 07:28:01 PM
Sad as it is, there is a lot of truth to what you've just said Redmist.:yeah:
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 30, 2010, 07:41:31 PM
Post by: CJ-5 on July 30, 2010, 08:03:49 PM
Post by: Redmist on July 30, 2010, 11:53:59 PM
Post by: Viszla on July 31, 2010, 03:24:13 PM
Post by: seaduckhunter on July 31, 2010, 04:43:57 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 31, 2010, 05:15:45 PM
These conditions were not great for a lot of rare species, trout/salmon/steelhead, and other critters, but were ideal for mule deer. Smart or dumb, WDFW has little influence over the big things that affect mule deer herds; neither does ODFW, IDFG, MTFWP, CODOW, WYGF, NMFG, AZFG or any of the other state wildlife agencies which regulate mule deer hunting. They aren't holding herds way below the potential of the habitat, the habitat for migratory, mountain-foothill mule deer herds throughout the entire range of the species has declined precipitously. (In my opinion, the primary causes rangewide for migratory mule deer population changes have been changes in forest practices by the USFS and land management by BLM, and habitat destruction and degradation on the winter ranges).
Harvest management changes now favor higher buck survival, but hunter preferences have shifted from success to antler points, so the older age classes receive far greater pressure while 1-2 year old bucks have higher survival. There are far less mule deer now than in the 1950s and 1960s, when mule deer numbers probably reaches their highest populations EVER. Mule deer are far more abundant and widespread than they ever were 100 and 200 years ago, but are far less abundant than 50 years ago.
Post by: Lowedog on July 31, 2010, 11:10:49 PM
One only needs to look at the non typical category of the record books for WA and realize that the good old days for mule deer was 50+ yrs ago.
Post by: gasman on August 01, 2010, 09:10:17 AM
There are so many differnt factors that have changed the amout of wild game in this state (most all states), that you can not blame one thing, there are to many veriables that play a part in the factor of loss game.
Post by: mulehunter on August 01, 2010, 09:39:01 AM
You know, one thing everyone keeps missing is the amout of people that are hunting all areas in the state. There are way more hunters today then there were 50 years ago. The population growth and expantion in to more rural areas keeps getting deeper in to the woods. Where 50 yeays go a person would have a huning cabin in the woods, now we have community's.
There are so many differnt factors that have changed the amout of wild game in this state (most all states), that you can not blame one thing, there are to many veriables that play a part in the factor of loss game.
:yeah: WOW Population people in American growing twice! I found out its almost 500 Million people in American. Cant complaint to EACHOTHER! People need to ZIPPER PANT! :bash:
Mulehunter :chuckle:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 01, 2010, 10:08:54 AM
It WAS a great time for hunting, but I would bet there were as many hunters then as now. back then hunters were a much larger % of the population, and many places of employment became uninhabited friday of opening weekends. Don't see much of that now in THIS state
About the time environmentalism became almost a religion is when the downfall started. Anyone remember a 3,2, or 1 log load on a logging truck?. VERY rare to see now.
Colockum was fun elk hunting when the gameys (and there were MANY more then) drove around in chained up Dodge Darts! at that time I would guess 90% of pickups built were 2WD.
Redmist, I remember the big herd reduction was in 88 as Antlerking stated. I know there were many bad fires in 94, but no fiasco as in 88 for the Washington department of fish and (I miss it) GAME!
Post by: Redmist on August 02, 2010, 10:50:06 PM
Post by: Lowedog on August 03, 2010, 07:22:06 AM
There are/were some publications also that have printed some very specific locations that have had a great impact on certain areas over hte year.
Not to say that I feel it has hurt the game herds as a whole but I do think it has hurt the numbers in certain areas and contributed a lot to hunter success. Info at your fingertips and something to keep the fire burning all year long is a powerful tool. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on August 03, 2010, 07:32:11 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 03, 2010, 01:02:03 PM
Redmist, you bring up a good point about the internet and sites like this. As much as I enjoy visiting these sites I think that they have had about the biggest impact on hunting/hunter success. We have discussions about advancements in equipment making things too easy but I think those things pale to the web where someone can gain info that would have taken them maybe years to learn in a few minutes.I completely agree. Always hurts to have some d-bag post, in precise detail - or a highly identifiable photo - your favorite hunting spot. Three guys can keep a secret - just as long as two of them are dead.
There are/were some publications also that have printed some very specific locations that have had a great impact on certain areas over hte year.
Not to say that I feel it has hurt the game herds as a whole but I do think it has hurt the numbers in certain areas and contributed a lot to hunter success. Info at your fingertips and something to keep the fire burning all year long is a powerful tool. :twocents:
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 04, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
[/quote]
I completely agree. Always hurts to have some d-bag post, in precise detail - or a highly identifiable photo - your favorite hunting spot. Three guys can keep a secret - just as long as two of them are dead.
[/quote]
Ain't that the truth, I have lost some pretty nice hunting spots over the years to people who heard from a friend or what not where to go and overpopulated the area with their friends and their friend's friends etc etc.
Post by: Ridgerunner on August 04, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on August 06, 2010, 08:04:02 AM
Loose lips, sink ships. :(
Post by: turbo on August 06, 2010, 03:26:45 PM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Post by: Yak-NDN on August 06, 2010, 03:45:36 PM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
I disagree!!!
Post by: ICEMAN on August 06, 2010, 07:42:36 PM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Really? When there is 4 feet of snow on any hill, there area also pockets and exposures where there is very little or no snow. I know for a fact that snowmobilers often disrupt deer and cause them to move off, often into the deep snow to escape the harassment. As 50cal said, some guys chase the deer to get the antlers to drop. Deer cannot handle the constant harassment of snowmobiles in the areas where they are wintering over. Guys run their rigs down low on the hill looking for sheds, sometimes running them into very thin snow, exactly where the deer are trying to survive.
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on August 06, 2010, 10:59:38 PM
:yeah:Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Really? When there is 4 feet of snow on any hill, there area also pockets and exposures where there is very little or no snow. I know for a fact that snowmobilers often disrupt deer and cause them to move off, often into the deep snow to escape the harassment. As 50cal said, some guys chase the deer to get the antlers to drop. Deer cannot handle the constant harassment of snowmobiles in the areas where they are wintering over. Guys run their rigs down low on the hill looking for sheds, sometimes running them into very thin snow, exactly where the deer are trying to survive.
Post by: Lowedog on August 07, 2010, 08:18:30 AM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Since when does it take 4 feet of snow to ride a snowmobile? Go take a walk up some of those roads this winter and see where these guys take their sleds. You will see tracks across bare ground where they run up and down the ridges.
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 07, 2010, 09:08:35 AM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Since when does it take 4 feet of snow to ride a snowmobile? Go take a walk up some of those roads this winter and see where these guys take their sleds. You will see tracks across bare ground where they run up and down the ridges.
:yeah:
It is amazing where some of these morons will take their sleds and they do harass the deer. Some of them don't really mean to they are just too stupid too realize what they are doing when they are trying to get closer to see the deer better. Personally I think shooting stupid people with rubber bullets should be completely legal.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 07, 2010, 09:20:58 AM
Lets not forget about the Snowmobile/Shed Hunters chasing Deer around at the most critical time either. :mor:
FYI, there are no deer in 4' ft or more of snow anywhere. Nice try!!!
Since when does it take 4 feet of snow to ride a snowmobile? Go take a walk up some of those roads this winter and see where these guys take their sleds. You will see tracks across bare ground where they run up and down the ridges.
Yes an IDIOT can ride a snowmobile ANYWHERE. We'll give you that!
You will find that more sledders hunt, than hunters sled.
The serious sledder would not do this chit, just as the serious hunter would not steal anothers animal. Is there not a thread on that here somewhere?
Right ON Turbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As the DOW,wilderness sociey, PETA ,sierra club, and others smile at how well we all can be used Against each other to further their agenda. to remove as many of OUR rights to use public land as possible!
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on August 07, 2010, 09:21:35 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 07, 2010, 09:44:02 AM
35 degree slope, about 18 inches of snow, lower end of the Entiat!!!!! Turds!!!
Now would that be a resident, of the area riding that machine, or is there a snopark nearby??
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on August 07, 2010, 09:53:59 AM
No snow park anywhere close. Locals.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 07, 2010, 01:57:39 PM
Like the picture HardCorpsHuntr posted above, what hunters with ORVs say they do, and the evidence they leave, are very different. Not saying all hunting/harvesting ORVers are lying sleazebags, just that the honest 2% get a bad reputation from the other 98%. I think ORVs are like crack cocaine and meth rolled into one for hunters of sheds, game animals, or whatever. Nobody starts out with recreational abuse expecting to turn into a crackhead - it just happens nearly every time.
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on August 08, 2010, 09:28:16 AM
Post by: Lowedog on August 08, 2010, 10:31:21 AM
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 08, 2010, 11:04:42 AM
If they do shut it down will these guys obey the rules? They don't now. They use their sleds until there isn't enough snow to get up the roads and then get on their motor bikes and do the same thing. You see the tire tracks in places that would be more easily walked.
They won't obey the rules, they never do. I have busted guys riding their bikes off of the main roads through the sage brush and they are always just like "What? I didn't do anything wrong?" I get so damn sick and tired of seeing the ruts and erosion caused by the idiots that can't take the three extra seconds to go around the corner instead of cutting across tearing up the bank and everything else, "taking a shortcut" Bull$hit
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 08, 2010, 01:21:57 PM
Best part is the people that did both of these things, in the picture and what doublelung is talking about look at this site and are reading this and just smiling cause they never ever get in trouble!! Thanks for posting the picture nothing better than direct evidence. And thanks for the inside story as well DOUBLELUNG. Im sure one day soon they will just shut down the entiat and swakane units winter range to ALL people from Jan 1st to april or May.Most states with migratory big game wintering on low elevation foothills have cooperative management arrangements with the other public land management agencies to close big game winter ranges to either motorized entry, or all entry, during the critical wintering period. It amazed me when I arrived here, and continues to blow my mind, that WDFW and USFS are so lax in protecting wintering deer and elk here. This is where the general-funded political side of WDFW really screws the deer and elk resources. Fawn and calf survival rates suck, generally, along the eastern Cascades, and human-caused stress is a huge part of that. Methow Valley, Chelan-Kittias-Yakima counties, motorized ORVs should not be allowed at all below 3,500' elevation on public land November 1 to April 1.
Post by: boneaddict on August 08, 2010, 01:57:50 PM
Quote
If they do shut it down will these guys obey the rules? They don't now. They use their sleds until there isn't enough snow to get up the roads and then get on their motor bikes and do the same thing. You see the tire tracks in places that would be more easily walked
RESOUNDING NO and its too FRICKIN bad. They have shut a bunch of land down off down here that I used to snowmobile to protect the elk from shedding, and it still goes on. Its mostly 4 wheelers jsut because thats what this particular group uses.
Now I am a rifle hunter, bowhunter, snowmobiler, hiker, conservationist, she dhunter, photographer, etc all rolled into one. I won't attack ANY particular USER group, just hte delinquents that ruin it for everyone.
Great posts Doublelung, and awesome picture Hardcorps.
Post by: boneaddict on August 08, 2010, 02:02:45 PM
Everyone wants their home on the top of the hill in prime winterrange. Treehuggers and hunters alike. Most get a big dog, again tree huggers and hunters alike. The only thing that really seperates the two is that treehuggers get pissed when the deer and elk eat their shrubs, most hunters set up a trail cam on their shrubs.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 08, 2010, 02:20:50 PM
THEY NEED to cut off all the roads in that range in the wintertime. ONE, tribal hunting will crawl to a halt except for the serious hunters and I'll give it to em if they hike in. TWO, harassment has become ridiculous.Lots of truth there.
Everyone wants their home on the top of the hill in prime winterrange. Treehuggers and hunters alike. Most get a big dog, again tree huggers and hunters alike. The only thing that really seperates the two is that treehuggers get pissed when the deer and elk eat their shrubs, most hunters set up a trail cam on their shrubs.
Post by: Ironhead on August 08, 2010, 07:00:53 PM
Post by: Lowedog on August 08, 2010, 07:46:29 PM
I would like to see the Entiat as the Henries of Washington. It has what big Muleys need. How would you guys really like to see it managed?
Permit only! Shut the roads down in the winter.
Now I am a rifle hunter, bowhunter, snowmobiler, hiker, conservationist, she dhunter, photographer, etc all rolled into one. I won't attack ANY particular USER group, just hte delinquents that ruin it for everyone.
I think a lot of us fall into the same category.
I don't think any one was trying to lump all of a certain user group into the cause of the problems it is the individuals who are the problem.
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on August 08, 2010, 07:54:01 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 08, 2010, 11:18:28 PM
We have basically had this thread every year for quite sometime about the down fall of the Entiat. What else can be done besides shutting down the winter range? I still think there is away to make it the best quality unit in the state. It needs to be managed for an older age class of deer. I am just throwing some ideas around, I am not a biologist nor do I pretend to be, but I do rememer the 70's and early 80's in the Entiat and Swakane. I would like to see the Entiat as the Henries of Washington. It has what big Muleys need. How would you guys really like to see it managed?
I agree. However, the best way to manage the Chelan mule deer herd for older age class bucks would be to eliminate all of the late hunts - permit and general. Close all hunting after the rut starts, last day of general MF season would be the last day of ALL licensed deer hunting. Close the public land winter ranges to motorized entry; still plenty easy for the tribal hunters to gather deer meat, but the trophy cropping would drop about 99%.
I would support this in a heartbeat. I have no faith, though, that we the Washington Hunting Public will willingly give up our permit opportunities to roadside a buck when he is rut-dumb and vulnerable; nor will the archers willingly give up the late Swakane general hunt. The sad part is, we would all benefit from better hunting during the early general seasons Sept through Oct, both in terms of higher numbers of fully mature bucks in the population, and higher fawn survival leading to a more productive herd. Manage herd size when needed with antlerless permits that run during the general season.
Post by: boneaddict on August 09, 2010, 05:38:55 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on August 09, 2010, 05:47:51 AM
Post by: Ironhead on August 09, 2010, 08:53:22 PM
Post by: spin05 on August 10, 2010, 05:06:16 AM
We have basically had this thread every year for quite sometime about the down fall of the Entiat. What else can be done besides shutting down the winter range? I still think there is away to make it the best quality unit in the state. It needs to be managed for an older age class of deer. I am just throwing some ideas around, I am not a biologist nor do I pretend to be, but I do rememer the 70's and early 80's in the Entiat and Swakane. I would like to see the Entiat as the Henries of Washington. It has what big Muleys need. How would you guys really like to see it managed?
I agree. However, the best way to manage the Chelan mule deer herd for older age class bucks would be to eliminate all of the late hunts - permit and general. Close all hunting after the rut starts, last day of general MF season would be the last day of ALL licensed deer hunting. Close the public land winter ranges to motorized entry; still plenty easy for the tribal hunters to gather deer meat, but the trophy cropping would drop about 99%.
I would support this in a heartbeat. I have no faith, though, that we the Washington Hunting Public will willingly give up our permit opportunities to roadside a buck when he is rut-dumb and vulnerable; nor will the archers willingly give up the late Swakane general hunt. The sad part is, we would all benefit from better hunting during the early general seasons Sept through Oct, both in terms of higher numbers of fully mature bucks in the population, and higher fawn survival leading to a more productive herd. Manage herd size when needed with antlerless permits that run during the general season.
The only problem i have with the season ending with the last day of rifle is then the rifle guys will be the only guys killing any deer there. I say gate it starting oct 1st for everybody. Give out a very limited amount of permits for walk in only,say 10 or so. Leave the season times of year as they are. No snowmobiles no nothing. I have hunted the entiat in sept and its a dry tough hunt. Not many animals. Definatly not were you would find me again...
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 10, 2010, 05:52:04 AM
Hunting the winter range in September is not very productive; nor is it much better in October. This is a migratory herd where the animals average at least 30 air miles between summer and winter ranges. In September and October, the places to hunt are primarily above 4,000'; there is some of that in Entiat, Swakane and Mission, but more of the summer ranges are in Clark and Alpine (wilderness), and Chiwawa and Slide Ridge.We have basically had this thread every year for quite sometime about the down fall of the Entiat. What else can be done besides shutting down the winter range? I still think there is away to make it the best quality unit in the state. It needs to be managed for an older age class of deer. I am just throwing some ideas around, I am not a biologist nor do I pretend to be, but I do rememer the 70's and early 80's in the Entiat and Swakane. I would like to see the Entiat as the Henries of Washington. It has what big Muleys need. How would you guys really like to see it managed?
I agree. However, the best way to manage the Chelan mule deer herd for older age class bucks would be to eliminate all of the late hunts - permit and general. Close all hunting after the rut starts, last day of general MF season would be the last day of ALL licensed deer hunting. Close the public land winter ranges to motorized entry; still plenty easy for the tribal hunters to gather deer meat, but the trophy cropping would drop about 99%.
I would support this in a heartbeat. I have no faith, though, that we the Washington Hunting Public will willingly give up our permit opportunities to roadside a buck when he is rut-dumb and vulnerable; nor will the archers willingly give up the late Swakane general hunt. The sad part is, we would all benefit from better hunting during the early general seasons Sept through Oct, both in terms of higher numbers of fully mature bucks in the population, and higher fawn survival leading to a more productive herd. Manage herd size when needed with antlerless permits that run during the general season.
The only problem i have with the season ending with the last day of rifle is then the rifle guys will be the only guys killing any deer there. I say gate it starting oct 1st for everybody. Give out a very limited amount of permits for walk in only,say 10 or so. Leave the season times of year as they are. No snowmobiles no nothing. I have hunted the entiat in sept and its a dry tough hunt. Not many animals. Definatly not were you would find me again...
When less than 15% of the herd is nonmigratory, hunting 15% of the deer when it is hot and dry is not the best plan, agreed. The problem with a very limited amount of permits, is they fuel that desire to hunt rut dumb or winter vulnerable big bucks. The pictures go up on websites like this one. The social and political pressure for more rises: if 10 is ok, how about 12? Why not 15? How about 75? Can we give out 200? etc. We as hunters need to wean ourselves off harassing and skimming the best off when our herds are most vulnerable - if we actualy want what is best for the herds. If not, then what we have now is about as good as there is potential for it to be.
Post by: gasman on August 10, 2010, 10:35:17 AM
The WDFW will get more $$ for selling tags that allow hunters to hunt the rut or migration. If they take away the desired tags for one area, hunters go after another area with the same quality hunt.
Us as hunters want the best oppertunity to harvest an animal and if means to go after a tag that allow hunting durring teh rut or migration, then we will do it (in general).
If you think it is wrong to hunt these times of year, then don't do it. Others will be happy that there is less compatition for the desired tags.
The WDFW has screwed up our animals so bad, that this is what we have become :bash:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 10, 2010, 12:11:59 PM
But it's not about what best for the herd. It's about what will bring in the most $$ for the WDFW :bash:Having worked what i consider the near-extreme ends of the spectrum as a game bio (WA & WY), I certainly have some criticisms of WDFW but they aren't demons. They are in a serious financial bind to meet the desires of their various publics, and I am very grateful to be out of that meat grinder.
The WDFW will get more $$ for selling tags that allow hunters to hunt the rut or migration. If they take away the desired tags for one area, hunters go after another area with the same quality hunt.
Us as hunters want the best oppertunity to harvest an animal and if means to go after a tag that allow hunting durring teh rut or migration, then we will do it (in general).
If you think it is wrong to hunt these times of year, then don't do it. Others will be happy that there is less compatition for the desired tags.
The WDFW has screwed up our animals so bad, that this is what we have become :bash:
It was a lot more fun in Wyoming, with highly abundant game and a tiny resident population, to try to figure out how to get enough hunters to kill enough animals; we weren't always successful, but there is no lack of opportunity for everyone to legally put as much meat into the freezer there as desired. In Washington, EVEN WITH DECLINING TOTAL NUMBERS OF HUNTERS, human population growth and intolerance lead to catering to the lowest common denoiminator to try and cut up every "pie" (harvestable surplus of game, fish, shellfish, seaweed(!!!), berries, mushrooms, whatever) into 78 different pieces so everyone can have a sliver. This is MOSTLY driven by WA licensed hunters' desire to have general seasons and over the counter opportunities to the greatest extent possible.
It is not very surprising that WDFW is less highly regarded than some other western game agencies, but it is more about supply and demand than greed or competence. Washington hunters, still hungry after consuming their 1/78th of a pie, are not as happy as Wyoming hunters who are full to the gills with pie and don't want to take any more.
I will concur, though, that it does NOT help that WDFW exists within the bloated, greedy and wasteful construct of Washington State Government, but that is a whole other discussion.
As for sitting out, you aren't understanding the discussion. We will all apply for the best of every opportunity for ourselves. That is why we have the current state of affairs. As long as a permit I want to hunt is offered, whether or not I think it the best way to manage that public resource, I will apply for it.
Those of us wishing for better management aren't inclined to voluntarily abstain and let others take what is available - we'll leave that to the morally self-righteous who stand on their convictions and principles. Like the people we vote into office in this state :bash:
Post by: DoubleJ on August 10, 2010, 01:29:40 PM
Post by: wazzu99 on August 10, 2010, 01:55:40 PM
Maybe not as good as it once was, but its still pretty dang good!
Wazzu
Post by: Lowedog on August 10, 2010, 03:37:06 PM
Post by: gasman on August 10, 2010, 03:42:07 PM
You guys are depressing me! Me and my hunting buddies drew the Entiat this year and we're pretty happy about it. :IBCOOL: We might even be looking forward to it!
Maybe not as good as it once was, but its still pretty dang good!
Wazzu
I'd be excited to :4w: :4w: :4w: :4w: :4w: :4w: :4w:
Post by: Ironhead on August 10, 2010, 06:00:35 PM
Still pretty good but nowhere near it's potential. :twocents:Exactly
Maybe it's time for me to start looking exclusively for out of state hunts in more hunter friendly states. Let them have my money.There are plenty of good units to kill Deer in, why not make the Entiat a great unit once again ?
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on August 10, 2010, 08:57:14 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on August 10, 2010, 09:45:17 PM