Post by: MHWASH on July 27, 2010, 07:18:32 PM
Post by: FC on July 27, 2010, 07:27:10 PM
Post by: Shannon on July 27, 2010, 07:37:48 PM
Post by: SnakeEyes on July 27, 2010, 07:39:19 PM
Post by: MIKEXRAY on July 27, 2010, 07:41:35 PM
Post by: denali on July 27, 2010, 07:41:51 PM
if a smooth ride is important go with chevy.
don't know enough about fords to comment
Post by: Antlerking on July 27, 2010, 07:51:07 PM
Post by: Birdguy on July 27, 2010, 08:00:09 PM
To answer your question I think most guys who bought a diesel truck because they NEED a diesel truck are happy with them. The guys that generally are not are the guys who bought more truck then they can use and start to try to justify why they need a different one :twocents:.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on July 27, 2010, 08:02:45 PM
Dodge uses soft brake pads, it is far cheaper to change out pads than it is to change out rotors.
I change the brakes myself.
Honestly i don't care wich one you buy i can only tell you my expierence. I had an 05 that i loved, i got better fuel mileage with the 05 than i do with the 08. But i love the room in my 08. I have had no tranny problems with either. I heard they have been fixed since 04 when they went to the 48RE and now the 68RE. I tow a 10,000 pound 5th wheel with no probs. Plus i think the dodges look the best. But that is my opinion.
Post by: GoldTip on July 27, 2010, 08:16:36 PM
But to answer your question, am I happy with my diesel, yes I love it, as long as I need to tow something heavier than 5k, I will always own a diesel.
Post by: cohoho on July 27, 2010, 08:20:37 PM
Ford Super Duty body and Crew Cab, Chevy ride, Allison Tranny and the Cummins, but that is going to happen ...
Had an 01 Dodge Cummins - couldn't hear myself think while driving down the road... But that is way improved on the new models... And road like a tank going down the road..
Had an 04 Ford 350.. crappy, crappy, crappy motor, problems and sucky fuel mileage... But loved the vehicle, the looks and crew cab aren't going to be beat, supposedly the mileage is great now??? Don't know for sure...
Now - 06 Chevy Duramax - that year can't be beat in any power contest with anything stock.... at that time frame (last year before all the new restrictions) Also like the Chevy ride of course, good mileage and hoops of power... Will have 130,000 before 8 Aug as it will turn 4 years old... Thinking about a new one also??? But want to know about ford's mileage in the next two years....
Post by: Rick on July 27, 2010, 08:48:14 PM
The LLY Duramax ('04.5-'05) has a history of overheating and blowing head gaskets. GM upped the power but didn't address the cooling.
The Dodges have a history of crappy front suspensions. Ball joints and u-joints are COMMON issues.
My '07 Dodge 3500 has been pretty reliable other than needing a couple front axle u-joints and a carrier bearing in the two piece rear driveshaft at less than 35,000 miles.
I don't know that I'd buy another Dodge. With the solid front axle it rides like a hay wagon from 1880. I probably wouldn't mind the ride as much if the front suspension was more durable.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 27, 2010, 08:53:55 PM
Post by: 509er on July 27, 2010, 08:57:58 PM
yep.
Post by: jackelope on July 27, 2010, 09:11:01 PM
The front ends suck...Rick would know.
The fuel economy sucks as soon as they put the DPF system into any of them(Dodge=mid-2007/6.7L engine).
The engines are great.
The transmissions are OK.
I hate the interiors till the 2010 trucks came out. They are awesome.
You could get a mega-cab starting in 2007 but it only has a short bed.
We got word the other day that Cummins will quit warranty repairs on engines if the owners don't change fuel filters every 15k miles. They say 1 out of every 10 warranty claims for engine replacements are not warranteable because of fuel contamination. That said, I've stared at Dodge trucks pretty muchg every day for the last 3 years and have not replaced a Cummins yet warranty or customer pay.
I'm far from a motorhead but I know what goes wrong with the Dodge trucks.
Post by: high country on July 27, 2010, 09:17:58 PM
the dodge would get 20mpg every unloaded mile of its 225k life. my ford was a 14mpg truck. my chevy is 18 avg.....20 if I drive like a old lady.
chevys ride, interior, and brakes...oh and the tranny far outclass the others. the ford and dodge take weight better at the cost of ride quality. dodges will run forever......and ever. fords will need glow plugs, glow plug modules, relays.....and batts.
chevy post 05 has the trickest tranny in the game, they all have stupid emissions stuff that kills mileage and reliability after 07. they sll do something better then the others and something worse
Post by: cohoho on July 27, 2010, 09:19:05 PM
Brother owns a 07 Duramax. Rides and drives like a dream, need a Walmart parking lot to turn it around as the Chevy turn radius flat sucks, no ands, if's or butts about it.
Ain't that the truth! :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on July 27, 2010, 09:37:13 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 27, 2010, 09:51:15 PM
I will not give in to the Ford, GM, Dodge battle, but will say that they all have issues. They all have plusses, as diesel power plants, but along with that brings transmission issues because of the torque the diesel can deliver. The faulty designs that are inherant in our fledgling high torque decade, and the lack of traditional vacuume that most automatics rely upon for shift points leads to inconsistent shifts and hardware failure. Yes, there are a lot of electronics implemented for automatic transmissions for both gas and diesel powerplants, but none of the big three have it mastered yet. For the consumer diesel powered trucks, there isn't a big enough clutch available in a stock rig but the ZF6 is a great transmission in both the Ford and GM. The Dodge 6spd is really smooth. As posted earlier, the front-ends suck.. But, that's only for the trucks with IFS. And although they ride better, I'll be turning the thermostat down to make hell freeze over the day I get rid of my solid front axle. I don't know where the fuel economy complaint comes from. I average 17.5mpg year round. Best as 22mpg freeway with no load with canopy on. There are a lot of Dodges and Fords that do better than I do. Many more that do worse, but I really think that can be attributed to LEAD FOOT.
All that said, there are calculators on the net that will help you determine if a Diesel powered truck is cost effective for you. In my truck, (now five years old), the diesel engine was a $5,200 option. Maintenance for a diesel is no different than for a gas engine. Its just that if you don't maintain a diesel, you'll lose quick. You can get away with not changing a fuel filter on a gas engine for 100,000 miles. I wouldn't recommend that with a diesel. But, since most people use '$better$' oil in a diesel, that'll cost more in the long run. There is no $8.99 Fram oil filter available for a diesel.. :chuckle:
Love my diesel. But I will advise you that you should educate yourself about the one you're going to buy.
-Steve
Post by: actionshooter on July 27, 2010, 09:52:23 PM
The 6.4 in the Ford has a history of terrible fuel mileage.
The LLY Duramax ('04.5-'05) has a history of overheating and blowing head gaskets. GM upped the power but didn't address the cooling.
The Dodges have a history of crappy front suspensions. Ball joints and u-joints are COMMON issues.
My '07 Dodge 3500 has been pretty reliable other than needing a couple front axle u-joints and a carrier bearing in the two piece rear driveshaft at less than 35,000 miles.
I don't know that I'd buy another Dodge. With the solid front axle it rides like a hay wagon from 1880. I probably wouldn't mind the ride as much if the front suspension was more durable.
I sold my dodge at 99000 miles, the warranty was getting ready to go and I didn't figure I had enough money in the bank to keep fixing it.
I think the cummins is the best engine of the 3 but they stuffed it in the worst truck.
3 sets of ball joints in 6 years!!
I'm planning on trying the Chev next.
Post by: mkcj on July 27, 2010, 09:53:07 PM
Post by: Special T on July 27, 2010, 09:58:52 PM
Post by: norsepeak on July 27, 2010, 09:59:32 PM
Post by: Special T on July 27, 2010, 10:02:16 PM
Post by: BLR 243 on July 27, 2010, 10:19:45 PM
Post by: chukarchaser on July 27, 2010, 10:27:22 PM
Post by: denali on July 27, 2010, 10:29:09 PM
I have customers in Canada who have Toyota hyluxs inline 4 diesel imported from japan, and they get like 35-40 mpg... Why the hell can i get that here in the us? Diesel is suck a superior fuel in so many ways I :bash: my head every time i think of it! You get 20% more fuel from the refining process, you get way better fuel economy, and if you panties get in a bunch about pollution blend 5-10% bio in and your emissions rock! WTF why don't we pull our head out like Europe or any where else? Its the GD corn lobby for BS ethanol! :bash:
86 ford escort diesel 45 mpg lets reinvent the wheel >:(
I was in Brazil 10 years ago and they had flex fuel autos, we in the states act like it's something new ??
Post by: alanger on July 28, 2010, 02:02:14 AM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on July 28, 2010, 05:38:10 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 28, 2010, 06:26:38 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 28, 2010, 07:05:44 AM
I know a lot of guys with 600,000 plus miles on them and they don't skip a beat.
Post by: Hyde on July 28, 2010, 07:35:59 AM
As for brands, I personally think the Dodge is a tinny piece of crap. I love their engine though. This new Powerstroke engine that Ford designed for their 2011 SD is supposed to be the cat's arse, but that remains to be seen. And for the record, I am not a devoted Ford man. I have no loyalty to any brand. When I want to buy something, I always look at all options. There will always be a lot of chest thumping when it comes to pickup truck brands. Compare for yourself and don't buy based on who said what.
Post by: MADMAX on July 28, 2010, 07:50:10 AM
I love a $155 fill up
Post by: dad98684 on July 28, 2010, 07:55:03 AM
Post by: Rick on July 28, 2010, 08:13:00 AM
why isn't anybody talking about the old 12V cummins :dunno:
Probably because they were LOUD and only made 160hp. They couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass.
Best diesel ever made? Not by a long shot.
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 28, 2010, 08:30:11 AM
why isn't anybody talking about the old 12V cummins :dunno:
Probably because they were LOUD and only made 160hp. They couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass.
Best diesel ever made? Not by a long shot.
we put $400 bucks into one and it spanked all over a 05 24V with 120hp injectors, chip and exhaust. Also truly got 23 with it pulling a 20ft bass boat. that one has 500,000 miles on it now.
The 12 valves are unstoppable and you can double their power in your garage.
by the way, I don't own one either.
as for the newer deisels, they're going too far too soon. It's a power race by the mfg's. How much is enough?
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 28, 2010, 09:15:27 AM
I have a '99 F350 Dually with a 7.3L in it. Damn good truck. Just a few minor things replaced over the years. The only big things I have replaced is the front unit bearings. I had the under valve cover harness give me trouble one day, but that's about it. Love the truck. Its my daily driver and I get 17-18 around the city and 24+ on the highway. I have a Tymar intake, 4" exhaust, some home grown tuning on it, as well as a manual torque converter lock up switch. It tows our travel trailer like its not even there.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3248%2F2985446204_21ce144e10.jpg&hash=2c2243078bf8324de198c81c7389b72db054aa7a)
I would say that the Cummins motor is the only thing Dodges have going for them. Chevy's have a car front end under them. And who's idea was it to put aluminum heads on a iron block diesel? :twocents:
Post by: Special T on July 28, 2010, 09:19:43 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 10:05:19 AM
Quote
I would say that the Cummins motor is the only thing Dodges have going for them. Chevy's have a car front end under them. And who's idea was it to put aluminum heads on a iron block diesel?
What would you rather have...a front end that needs to have major components replaced in it all the time(Dodge HD front ends) or a IFS front end in a chevy truck? I know they're not solid axles like fords and dodges but calling them a car front end is a little far fetched, no?
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 28, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
My friend has his two wheel drive Dodge for sale. Immaculate truck. He runs the European Motors in North Seattle shop. As you would expect, everything is tight as they come on this rig. His father in law sold it to him. I think the most he ever used it for was to haul bark for the yard and an occasional tent trailer tow.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/1860480120.html (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/1860480120.html)
I have my 2002 7.3L Ford 350- 180K. Replaced ball joints and bearings at 100K in front. Tore up the rear end but, that was my fault- smoking off crappy Goodyear MTR's on slick rocks not a good idea....note to self.
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 28, 2010, 11:42:32 AM
Solid axles- belongs on trucks.
Nuff said.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 11:48:09 AM
IFS- belongs on carsNot nuff said if you ask me. Why do you think that's the case? I'm just curious.
Solid axles- belongs on trucks.
Nuff said.
I'm not arguing, but the solid axle trucks we work on waste ball joints and axle u-joints on a regular basis at 40k miles. Thats not cool if you ask me. The IFS trucks don't go through front end parts. Whats the worse of 2 evils? 99.9% of people are not wheeling their 3500's so what's so important about having a solid axle when they ruin parts all the time?
I drive a Chev and it's like driving a couch down the road.
:chuckle:
Post by: Alchase on July 28, 2010, 11:49:19 AM
Do you make up the upfront cost of the diesel option, the higher upkeep cost, and fuel cost? Or is the just the price you pay "if" you have to tow something with substantial weight?
Keep in mind these questions are from someone who has never owned a diesel and has gotten by with 1500's or 150's.
Post by: BigD on July 28, 2010, 12:00:39 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 28, 2010, 12:01:39 PM
I have never owned a diesel so this thread has some great information in it. Funny how once we get past the Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc...sucks, or the 1500s are not real trucks, we find a ton of information good and bad about each brand, year of truck. I am a little confused though, I was under the impression the diesels lasted longer the gas motors? My own thinking is that if a truck does not go over 200k there is something seriously wrong with it, gas or diesel.
Do you make up the upfront cost of the diesel option, the higher upkeep cost, and fuel cost? Or is the just the price you pay "if" you have to tow something with substantial weight?
Keep in mind these questions are from someone who has never owned a diesel and has gotten by with 1500's or 150's.
this is one of my favorite reasons I own a diesel. skidding logs and filling the bed without even squating on the overload springs
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi463.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq357%2Fgilmore_spirits%2FDSCN2257.jpg&hash=fd583a6e5781819cdc276738effb2e196a319b61)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi463.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq357%2Fgilmore_spirits%2FFirewoodoldgrowthfirf-350.jpg&hash=8f9492bccfd41a805a463cb24ff281dacf140203)
THIS IS THE BIGGEST REASON WHY NOT TO GET A DIESEL- not matter what anyone says the get stuck and stay stuck
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi463.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq357%2Fgilmore_spirits%2FBearCreekTruckStuck1.jpg&hash=d2a8f607aaf9ca4dfbbeaf85f7f956d1c98a9a60)
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 28, 2010, 12:02:19 PM
IFS trucks go through ball joints at the same rate as a solid axle. CV shafts are far weaker than a U-joint.
I replaced my ball joints at 128,000. Not a bad life expectancy, since they were the factory, sealed units you can not grease.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 28, 2010, 12:03:47 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 28, 2010, 12:05:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 12:21:16 PM
I now work at a Dodge dealership and do 3-4 sets of BJ's a week on the big trucks.
You tell me what wears out more.
Post by: PolarBear on July 28, 2010, 12:56:59 PM
Post by: elk311 on July 28, 2010, 01:14:44 PM
The exhaust brake is da bomb when towing!!! :drool: The Cummins engine is built to last. The interior has a lot to be desired.
My 1994 F150 has a far superior paint job as did my 1990 F150. Bring back the 7.3 and Ford would be on my list, but alas I doubt that I will need another truck or at least an engine the way that Cummins has built this thing.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 28, 2010, 03:15:37 PM
If you're off road a lot or on jobsites bouncing around with heavy loads you'll be doing front end alignments on a regular basis, about every other tire rotation.
The 6 speed allison is great but, our newest Chev's in the fleet are having filter clogging issues- had three full filter service under 100K already to get them shifting right again.
The Chevs seem to be having minor electrical issues too. dash lights popping on and off, headlights not working.....they've been to the dealer a whole bunch on ticky-tacky warranty stuff. Each has had chronic check engine lights come on just to find nothing and have it reset?
BUT, they are outlasting the Ford 6L- just had one go down today- getting towed to Bowen Scarff. Turned over the engine, puff of black smoke and then wouldn't start- just had new cam, sensor, heads, turbo, injectors done all in 2009. 133K on the truck.
Can't convince the owner to touch a dodge. Like almost every other construction company running a fleet- their past history of the truck falling apart around the motor still keeps the fleet buyers away from dodge.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 03:30:01 PM
Can't convince the owner to touch a dodge. Like almost every other construction company running a fleet- their past history of the truck falling apart around the motor still keeps the fleet buyers away from dodge.
That's wierd. We are covered up in Dodge construction company trucks.
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 03:32:12 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 28, 2010, 04:21:28 PM
Can't convince the owner to touch a dodge. Like almost every other construction company running a fleet- their past history of the truck falling apart around the motor still keeps the fleet buyers away from dodge.
That's wierd. We are covered up in Dodge construction company trucks.
Maybe should have said heavy highway / civil / excavation contractors.
are we talking about sprinter vans now? like to see one in 4x4 option....
Chevy's are really cheap though. We've been paying $36-38K cash for Silverado, crew cab, allison duramax, dually 4x4.
Post by: Rick on July 28, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
why isn't anybody talking about the old 12V cummins :dunno:
Probably because they were LOUD and only made 160hp. They couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass.
Best diesel ever made? Not by a long shot.
we put $400 bucks into one and it spanked all over a 05 24V with 120hp injectors, chip and exhaust. Also truly got 23 with it pulling a 20ft bass boat. that one has 500,000 miles on it now.
The 12 valves are unstoppable and you can double their power in your garage.
I'm calling BS on spanking an '05 that started with 325hp and had injectors,chip,and exhaust. It would cost you way more than $400 to beat a truck equipped like the '05. Then again,this is the interwebs,where we all know ANYTHING is possible. :chuckle:
Post by: brush hunter on July 28, 2010, 07:32:54 PM
My has 400 HP straight 4" exhaust, and it's not that load...It's a truck not a luxury carwhy isn't anybody talking about the old 12V cummins :dunno:
Probably because they were LOUD and only made 160hp. They couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass.
Best diesel ever made? Not by a long shot.
Post by: Special T on July 28, 2010, 07:56:04 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 08:15:41 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 28, 2010, 08:17:06 PM
BH i want to know why they didn't come that way in the first place... GD emission crap probably. Jackalope is there an aftermarket company you recommend for front end stuff that is better than the factory crap for dodges? on my 2wd I'm gona need 2 replave some stuff coming up on 130 miles of factory stuff and its starting to wear the tires funny...2wd? The problems the Dodge trucks I'm talking bout are all 4x4.
You could look at some Moog stuff...that's ok. I'm not too familiar with the aftermarket world.
JimKD8?
Post by: FC on July 28, 2010, 08:25:53 PM
Post by: danrabe on July 29, 2010, 12:41:00 AM
I run my truck very hard as well. They are not comfortable on the off road. I have split my exhaust pipe on a stump as well as high centered my truck twice (broke 3 tow straps in the process). My wife had to push me off of the bank with her old lifted ramcharger. I think the only way a diesel is truely worth the money is if you either:
1. Tow heavy loads on a regular basis
or 2. Drive the truck for its entire life
Post by: Gutpile on July 29, 2010, 05:14:21 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 29, 2010, 06:22:20 AM
Post by: Big10gauge on July 29, 2010, 06:23:32 AM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on July 29, 2010, 08:21:05 AM
Post by: high country on July 29, 2010, 04:36:19 PM
Post by: engelwood on July 29, 2010, 05:04:38 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 30, 2010, 06:18:12 AM
why isn't anybody talking about the old 12V cummins :dunno:
Probably because they were LOUD and only made 160hp. They couldn't pull a greased string out of a cats ass.
Best diesel ever made? Not by a long shot.
we put $400 bucks into one and it spanked all over a 05 24V with 120hp injectors, chip and exhaust. Also truly got 23 with it pulling a 20ft bass boat. that one has 500,000 miles on it now.
The 12 valves are unstoppable and you can double their power in your garage.
I'm calling BS on spanking an '05 that started with 325hp and had injectors,chip,and exhaust. It would cost you way more than $400 to beat a truck equipped like the '05. Then again,this is the interwebs,where we all know ANYTHING is possible. :chuckle:
you don't have to beleive me, the guy with the 05' didn't either..... at first.
ask the guys at Deisel Performance Unlimited in Pasco. super cheap to add a whole bunch of horsies to a 12V, the most expensive part is finding the right clutch to handle it.
also, the 05' has a new motor now, can't run 7500 RPM's for too long :chuckle:
Post by: Woodchuck on July 30, 2010, 07:13:22 AM
Post by: Skillet on July 30, 2010, 07:27:34 AM
My experience to date, over nearly 60,000 miles is-
Warranty work-
High Pressure Oil Rail fittings - replaced at 20,000 or so. Common problem I've heard; causes hard starting (won't start if they are left to get really bad).
Injector shuttle valve - had one stick intermittantly at about 45000 miles (two days before I left for a 4000 mile round trip in the dead of winter to the upper midwest - interesting conversation at the dealer on that one).
EGR Valve. Man, that is not a good design on these motors. Sticking open is common (mine went in twice for the issue - once at 28,000 and once againg when they were trying to figure out what the problem was with the shuttle valve), and they serve no purpose other than to gum up your turbo vanes, IMHO. At 60,001 miles, mine is being replaced with an EGR delete kit. I have the kit already...
Power rear window slider just sucks. On day one, worked great. On day 10, the electric motor sounded like it was working way too hard and the window would just barely move. Had them adjust it a couple of times; still sucks, but not as bad.
As far as performance is concerned, empty and on the freeway at 65MPH, I get 19-20 all day long. Push it to 75, and the 4.10 gears start taking their toll on mileage, though. Actually wish I had the 3.73's for freeway driving. Pulling my 3000# boat over the Stevens Pass regularly nets me 15-16 mpg for the trip. Usually a lot of idling involved in those trips, and I'm happy with those numbers. When doing heavy towing (10,000# - mini-ex in a dump trailer, or 2+cords of wet wood on my flatbed and in the bed), mileage will drop to 11-12 in town (that and a 7,000 truck is a lot of weight to get rolling) and 13-14 on the highway on average. I pulled a 24' Glasply from Aberdeen to Spokane a few months back, and only got 13 mpg on that trip. Lots of windage involved there at freeway speeds, though.
Still on the original set of BFG's (but looking for tires soon), no other issues with the truck. Overall, it isn't perfect, but I'm happy with it, even though I made a compromise in getting the auto over a manual, which is what I really wanted... I agree with what others have said - they say 325 HP and well over 525 ft/lb of torque - I don't believe it. I think they de-tuned these things pretty bad when the warranty issues came up in '03 and '04. But still PLENTY of power for 99% of what I need to do.
Post by: MHWASH on July 30, 2010, 02:23:28 PM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 30, 2010, 03:46:18 PM