Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => Archery Gear => Topic started by: huntnfmly on July 31, 2010, 07:19:20 PM
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29in/ 63lbs/ hostage pro rest goldtip 7595 29 inch arrows 100grn tip.To get my bow to shoot thru paper good the arrow is pointing way down.When it is level it has a really bad tear.We tried a weaker spined arrow same effect new d loop is square if i have clearance for broadhead do i worry about it any help would be great.Thanks
jim
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Hard to say without laying my hands on it, but it sounds like fletch contact or cam timing. Try tuning a bare shaft, maybe. Or spray foot powder on the arrow to see where it's hitting the rest. Next, I'd look close at cam timing (yes, it matters on a single cam bow!). Here's the Mathews' link to see how to check it: http://forums.mathewsinc.com/archery-4/technical-faq-28/cam-timing-2009-mathews-bows-103809/?sid=04d873da09c959d8976952e62a8dbe1e (http://forums.mathewsinc.com/archery-4/technical-faq-28/cam-timing-2009-mathews-bows-103809/?sid=04d873da09c959d8976952e62a8dbe1e) . Remember to check cam timing only at max poundage of the bow: a 70# bow set at 65# will not look to be timed correctly until you crank it up to 70#.
Otherwise, I'd start back from the beginning: rest height set so arrow goes through center of Berger Button Hole, nock height set exactly perpindicular, rest elevation set at Mathews' standard 11/16" from sight window to center of arrow.
It sounds like you may have been trying to tune the bow and went past the perfect spot of the rest height or windage to where you induced fletch contact and just need to restart from the beginning, but that is only a drive-by guess.
Good Luck!
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The goldtip chart says you should be shooting the 5575 shaft. I know you said you tried a weaker spined arrow, was it that one?
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yeah that is really stiff for your 63lbs :dunno: as long as your broadheads shoot strait i don't worry about it to much. :twocents:
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yes it was a 5575 that we tried and we got the same bad tear.when we have the arrow level and square to the string we get a tear that is like \ that and is about 3-4 inches long and the timing is dead on and even when we cranked it all the way up that woukd take care of the spine it is the exact same tear.The arrows have feather vanes so i dont think the contact if any would do that but i dont know thanks for all the suggestions its kind of driving me crazy right now
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ok explain,
The arrows have feather vanes
so are they feather or vanes. if they are feather, some rest will kick the arrow all over the place if you try to shoot feathers threw them. if that is the case i bet that is your prob right there.
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sorry about that yes the fletching are feathers and it is a hostage pro It is very discouraging.
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we will get you lined in. if you want to stick with that rest i would change the feathers. if you want to stick with feathers i would switch the rest all the hair/fiber rests that i have been around from the whisker bis to the hostage are very hard to shoot arrows threw. a guy showed up at the shoot with a new rest on his bow a whisker and he was shooting feathers :chuckle: funny as hell 6 shots in about a 20 foot area :chuckle: i bet the feather are getting messed with my the rest :twocents:
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(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cabelas.com%2Fis%2Fimage%2Fcabelas%2Fs7_418648_imageset_03%3F%24main-Large%24&hash=af91897102dabd62379bad37c5cb3fb34b9570df)
Sorry i do not get it how the heck does it matter if his fletching is vanes or feathers? There should not be any fletching contact with a hostage the arrow sits on the brushes
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That rest is basically a no contact rest as far as the vanes are concerned, so feathers vs. vanes is a moot point once you have it adjusted right. Try the foot powder spray on them to see if it's hitting somewhere. I'd bet you accidentally adjusted it too far and induced contact somewhere.
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yes but one thing he did not say was how many feather he is shooting? you guys are assuming that he is shooting 3 in that case no they would not touch "if tuned right" but as a trad archer part of the time i shoot 6 fletch arrows and a lot of trad shooters shoot 4 feathers so that is what i am thinking of because it was not said how many vanes or feather. so there is my point boys :P there are things still to find out and facts that we do not know trying to narrow it down, and help him out. i am about as big as archery freak as anyone out there and have been around these rests and kinda know what i am talking about. :hello:
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Same bow, same rest- same problem. The Hostage Pro sets very far back on the bow and that seems to be the problem according to the shop tech (whom I respect) who retuned my bow. Though my bow is now tuned and my broadheads shoot true I am going to try another rest. Sure liked the Hostage Pro.
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another thing i thought about lats night was most modern archeres are shooting 2" style vanses. yes some still shoot the 4" etc but what i am thinking because i have fletched tons of arrows. is that is you are shooting a longer feather like a 5" shield cut and the jig that fletched them id cranked all the way over with a lot of offset that feather will really wrap around the shaft. most people are use to noraml platic vanes that are fairly strait on the shaft but if your feathers have a lot of offset to them then when you shoot this could account for the feathers turning enough to touch your rest when you shoot. the other way to test to see if its your arrows and not your rest is to shoot someone elses arrow that is spined right for your bow. if it shoots them right and is punching bullets then you know it is your arrows and not the rest. but if it shoots them like crap 2 then your rest needs to be played with and maybe your knocking point :twocents:
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Otherwise, I'd start back from the beginning: rest height set so arrow goes through center of Berger Button Hole, nock height set exactly perpindicular, rest elevation set at Mathews' standard 11/16" from sight window to center of arrow.
This is great info. I had a problem getting my QAD to paper tune properly,I was just out to far. Start out at the 11/16" you will be very close and I bet it solves the problem.
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I also bought the Z7 and after fighting my whisker biscuit for 2 years on my Drenalin, I decided to put the Trophy taker full containment drop away on this bow. It is awesome. I put it on & centered and paper tuned in 4 shots. It is shooting great with both field points & broadheads out to 60 yards & have the same point of impact. I would highly recommend this rest & I will not go back to any shoot through rest ever again. My point is don't fight it for 2 years like I did, if it is fighting you try something else. I'm loving this bow, and trophy taker drop away. Mike
Before I get attacked about the whisker I will be the first to admit that it was probably my form causing my troubles. The bow was to finicky for me. I could simply touch my fingers to the grip and change my point of impact by 4". Mike
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thanks guys.I have 3 feathers they are 4in long and 1/2in high.there is not much offset.I knocked an arrow then pushed it up to the berger hole and its about a 1/2in above the botton brush.defitnetly not right
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thanks guys.I have 3 feathers they are 4in long and 1/2in high.there is not much offset.I knocked an arrow then pushed it up to the berger hole and its about a 1/2in above the botton brush.defitnetly not right
Sounds like your rest is way low and my guess you are getting contact on the shelf of the bow. Like said before. Move your rest up so that when the arrow is 90 deg from the string it is through the center of the berger hole and reset your nock point.
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this will probably sound stupid but to change knock point i move the d loop?it looks pretty tight should i be able to slide it?It has 2 knots inside loop.larry did a good job also right now it paper tunes good. when it is level we get that bad tear thats what does not make sense :dunno:
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strange it will paper tune nock high. Is it shooting a perfect bullet hole that way? Are you using a brass nock in addition to your loop or just the loop? You can spin the loop on the serving to get it to move, just go the direction that will make it travel up the string.
If you could post a pic or 2 of your set up that would help. A close up of the loop/nock set and then one with an arrow nocked.
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yes it does shoot good holes and when we set it level we got the bad tear.I will post some pics when i get new batteries for camera i just tried and they are dead.I have 2 knots inside the d loops knots
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Something just hit me. How does it shoot broadheads? Are you worried because it "looks" like your arrow is sitting at a funny angle or are your arrows flying all over the place? On my set-up it looks like my tip is sitting high yet I'm slingin bare shafts out to 4O yards with my fletched ones and have the same poi with broadheads and field points out to long ranges. I wouldn't worry how it "looks" as much as how it performs. Shoot some broadheads, do a broadhead tune and if that dosent do it I don't know what to tell you.
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I see. I use a similar set up it sounds like. Check this thread http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,50872.15.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,50872.15.html) there is a great write up in there from xXxArchery on tying in a loop and nock set. With that set up you can spin the nock set/loop up or down the serving for tuning. There are pics with his write up.
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Thats exactly how its tied.I have not tried broadheads yet because if the arrows are to stiff i want to go to 125grn to help with that.Also if the set up is how it needs to be i will have to get lower profile heads so they wont hit the shelf
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I don't think they should be so close to the shelf that you should have to sacrifice cutting diameter. It sound to me like you should raise the nock point and raise the rest.
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sounds like you ar getting a step in the right direction.
mikexray i have the trophy taker full containment and out of the many many rest i have shot i love it! best rest i have ever shot in my life. i use it on my hunting bow. but i still love the biscuits as well and have my brother and wife shooting them as well. nothing wrong with them at all. but don't get the fiber wet without no snow on it or good luck shooting them with clumpy fibers :bdid:
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Thats exactly how its tied.I have not tried broadheads yet because if the arrows are to stiff i want to go to 125grn to help with that.Also if the set up is how it needs to be i will have to get lower profile heads so they wont hit the shelf
That isn't how it needs to be. The arrow should be at the same level as the berger hole. That is how the manufacturers design the bows. Some bows tune better a little nock high but usually only 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch and that still will have the arrow running through the center of the berger hole. An arrow spine too weak or stiff can show a left or right tear.
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Thats what i will do.I will raise the rest thet makes the arrow even with the berger hole wich is were the knock point is now and square to the string I didnt think thats how it needed to be i was thinking it was wrong but it just didnt make any sense that when everything was level and square we got that bad tearthat looked like this \
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Let us know how it works out for you.
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I will.Does anyone know anyplace i should take it?The place i got it says the arrow is to stiff and wants to sell me a new rest I think i will take it back up to larry and his guys
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I will.Does anyone know anyplace i should take it?The place i got it says the arrow is to stiff and wants to sell me a new rest I think i will take it back up to larry and his guys
:yeah:
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Hey Lowedog I did everything you suggested and more. It is shooting bullet holes at 6 feet and 9 yds, but it don't look right. When the arrow is set to 90 degrees, and at the berger hole it shoots a 3 inch nock high tear. Being a one cam I suspected arrow spine, but I tried several different arrows, and the results were the same. I am of the opinion that the octane pro rest is incompatable with the bow.
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yeah i would try a diffrent rest if it is still doing weird crap!
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Huntnfmly, I live in Federalway ( close to Wholesale ) if you want to try the whisker biscuit I have. It is the fully adjustable one. A way to see if it is the rest without buying one. Send me a PM if you do. Mike
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Nice offer, MIKEXRAY. I keep a couple biscuits around, so customers can try out the bows. I'll have a couple different rest options to try. We'll get 'er done!
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Thanks for the offer mikexray thats why i like this sightall the help people give on here.Old dog i will see you tommorow do you think a wiskerbiscuit will tear those feathers up bad.Also do you guys have any inexpensive dropaways because that might be what i end up getting?
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Hey Lowedog I did everything you suggested and more. It is shooting bullet holes at 6 feet and 9 yds, but it don't look right. When the arrow is set to 90 degrees, and at the berger hole it shoots a 3 inch nock high tear. Being a one cam I suspected arrow spine, but I tried several different arrows, and the results were the same. I am of the opinion that the octane pro rest is incompatable with the bow.
That is really strange that it is tearing high like that when set at 90 and at the same height as the berger holes. Has to be contact issue.
Thanks for the offer mikexray thats why i like this sightall the help people give on here.Old dog i will see you tommorow do you think a wiskerbiscuit will tear those feathers up bad.Also do you guys have any inexpensive dropaways because that might be what i end up getting?
I bought the NAP Apache full containment drop away a little while back to try out. I think for $50 it is a great rest. It was really easy to set up and it is very quite. I would say it is as good a rest as comparable rests that are double the cost.
http://www.newarchery.com/publish/posts/52/the-apache-dropaway-arrow-rest.html (http://www.newarchery.com/publish/posts/52/the-apache-dropaway-arrow-rest.html)
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Some pics of your set up would go a long way. I would like to see a pic of the idler wheel at full draw to see if it is tracking straight or if you need a few twists in the cable.
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I still say take a look at the trophy taker. I like the full containment, larger whale tail that picks up the arrow no matter where it is in the containment, quiet. Like I said I live right here if you want to check it out. Can even take a few shots with mine. ( 29 " 66 # ) It is a sweet set up. Or I have the whisker, not sure how feathers do. I shot regular vanes with none getting ruined ever. They did wrinkle a little but I have had them do that without the biscuit. Mike
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Some pics of your set up would go a long way. I would like to see a pic of the idler wheel at full draw to see if it is tracking straight or if you need a few twists in the cable.
Been there done that, and bought the "t" shirt! And besides that an idler wheel that doesn't track straight will usually cause a tear to one side or the other.
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well i ended up getting a new rest a trophy taker dropaway and ryan up there at wholesale did a great job installing it and paper tuning my bow and explaining why the other one wasnt working.Once again those guys up there showed if you need any work done and have never gone in there because it is a chain store you should check it out.Great cs.And thanks to everybody who was helping on this site.
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well i ended up getting a new rest a trophy taker dropaway and ryan up there at wholesale did a great job installing it and paper tuning my bow and explaining why the other one wasnt working.Once again those guys up there showed if you need any work done and have never gone in there because it is a chain store you should check it out.Great cs.And thanks to everybody who was helping on this site.
Out of curiousity, why wasn't the other one working? I have a Z7 and the NAP Apache rest and it's fine (somebody else suggested that rest, as well) but I'd be curious as to the reason the other one wasn't working. Mainly just curiousity and to file the information away in case I see a problem like it in the future.
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The one i ended up with pretty much looks the same as the one you got the one i had was a octane hostage pro.And my understanding was the hostage pro sat too far back for my bow iguess i dont completley understand but all i know is the bow is shooting great now
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Good to hear!
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I would throw it on Archerytalk.com and pick up a Bowtech Destroyer. :P
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Yeah, I'd sell my Corvette and pick up a Pinto why I was at it. :chuckle:
(I actually like the Destroyer but, since I own a Z7, I better sling a little crap about it.)
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my tunner tells me that Mathews like to be nock hi . if it shoots good paper and flys broadheads and field points the same then don't worry about it.
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thanks everybody,and halflife instead of selling your corvette i have a pinto how bout a straight up trade :chuckle:.These are sweet bows good luck to everybody this year
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:chuckle:
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My hunting partner shoots a Parker with the same rest ( bought at Cabelas as a package ) and his arrow is pointed way down also ! It looks like a drop away before it is drawn. He said that is what it took to paper tune and he has been shooting it like that for two years. He says it shoot good & has no plans to change. It was weird to see the same rest with the same described problem. Mike
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that is weird.And he has been shooting it like that.Glad its been working for him.I just could not get past the idea of the broadhead being so close to the shelf
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I ve been out shooting and i cant believe how much more accurate my bow is with a dropaway rest
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Congrats. I also have been shooting my best groups ever. I actually put a 2" bullseye inside of my usual 6" bull and fine tuned my pins to the 2" bull out to 60 yards. One day I noticed I was always hitting the bottom half of my 6 inch and as I said I fine tuned my setup to way closer tolerances than ever achieved before. Good job choosing equipment & fixing your issues. I fought a whisker on my Mathews for 2 years and it bothers me that I could of been shooting this good & could of had the confidence I now posses. Mike
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You pay a little more, but a great drop away is the "new" Rip Cord. It has the red padding in the rest. On my Reezen, I was getting interference with the old style because the fork was "bouncing" up and making contact with the arrow as it passed. Rip Cord solved the problem with the new rest. You can actully feel a click when you set the rest which keeps it from bouncing when it hits the shelf on the bow. This is a great containment and drop away rest. About $90. I use it on my new Z7.
