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Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: alanger on September 12, 2010, 05:56:24 PM


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Title: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 12, 2010, 05:56:24 PM
What kind of regs go up for tribal hunters and elk hunting say.. in the colockum or i guess anywhere. I was out with my cousin archery hunting today and a tribal hunter got a big 6x6 bull that we watched since day-light, he pulled up and let the hammer down. so it kind of just brought up some questions, like regulations and what they are limited to. The whole deal kind of bothered me since many of us hunters put in our  :twocents: towards the WDFW and the hope of getting drawn and then a tribal hunter can just go shoot whatever??? without years of putting in for a trophy hunt?? and then just drop the elk like its a daily routine and not get pumped up. thanks- Langer
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: iRem on September 12, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
Yeah it makes you kind a of sick too know that they can pretty much do what ever they want and not be discipline in any matter or even lose their rights like we would if were to do something like that, isn't that called poaching? Too get our selves all jacked for a big hunt and than to see this unfold in front of your eyes makes me pretty sick. Let me know when I have an opportunity to go out and poach an elk to put food on my table for my family. Or even go out and harvest any animal for my pleasure with out lossing my rights!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: superdown on September 12, 2010, 06:46:15 PM
do they have any whatsoever  :dunno: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: billythekidrock on September 12, 2010, 06:51:26 PM
9 month season with year round huntin'. Shootin' rifles from the rig during archery season. That is about all the regs.....I think.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: buckhorn2 on September 12, 2010, 06:53:43 PM
On T.V. it said they only take what they can eat. and eat and eat and eat and eat and eat. They make there own rules they are co-managers of the resource.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Team Baze on September 12, 2010, 06:53:56 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 12, 2010, 06:56:58 PM
Here's a link to the Yakama Nation regulations for tribal hunting: http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php. (http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php.)  The ceded area includes all publicly owned portions of the Yakima and Colockum elk herd ranges.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: ICEMAN on September 12, 2010, 06:59:45 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

Give me a break.  :bash:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: boneaddict on September 12, 2010, 07:00:12 PM
I just made this comment awhile ago to some of the admins that it was kinda ironic while I was up in the NE corner.  A bunch of whiteguys running around with bows and a bunch of indians were hunting with their rifles. LOL.    
To an extent Blaze, but interesting enough, we elect, pay for, or to to some extent lobby for what kind of regulation (length of seasons etc.  to manage the game herds.)  We could probably just let everyone hunt as much as possible and then soon not be hunting at all.  I do believe there should be more tribal regulation.    
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: boneaddict on September 12, 2010, 07:01:07 PM
after all we are supposedly equals now right.....
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bigtex on September 12, 2010, 07:01:56 PM
Well first, how do you know they were tribal members?

Now to your question. Each tribe sets their own seasons and regulations. Some regulations are similar to WDFW regulations but most aren't. For example some tribes don't have a law against wastage (basically shooting and leaving an animal) whereas if a general citizen shot and left an elk they would be charged with wastage 1st degree and automatically lose their hunting and fishing rights for several years. As far as I know the Muckleshoots are the only tribe in the state that can use a crossbow, and I think this is their first year of allowing their members to do so. All it takes is for the tribes wildlife comittee or whatever they call it to approve it and it becomes law. They don't have to consult with WDFW.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Nilehunter on September 12, 2010, 07:02:08 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

    It's just frustration is all (has nothing to do with skin as you sugest).
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bigtex on September 12, 2010, 07:04:29 PM
Here's a link to the Yakama Nation regulations for tribal hunting: http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php. (http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php.)  The ceded area includes all publicly owned portions of the Yakima and Colockum elk herd ranges.

Those are the regulations for non-tribal members who buy a permit to hunt the Yakima Rez. Most tribes do not post their regs online, some do but not the Yakimas or the Muckleshoots.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: buckhorn2 on September 12, 2010, 07:05:10 PM
Your reading to many novels or else not a john wayne fan Baze.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 12, 2010, 07:11:00 PM
Ok here goes my big mouth...sure some here might if they could and if i knew my actual heritage I might be indian enough somehwere to have extra rights...I am female enough to join the feminist wagon of deserving special treatment but dont want it I want to be equal not segregated.

The natives choose segregation by continuing to abuse and use special rights and continuing to want to be treated different and not equal the ones who want to be equal leave the rez in my experience and often do not go back.

so fire away I really do not care anymore I work for a tribe and see first hand how being allowed to discriminate works in modern society...on the rez I am not equal not even close....
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bigtex on September 12, 2010, 07:12:47 PM
On the following map the Yakama Tibe can hunt the dark blue areas:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/wa_tribal_ceeded_lands.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/tribal/wa_tribal_ceeded_lands.pdf)

Tribes can only hunt on "open and unclaimed land". Tribes cannot hunt in state and national parks. However the courts have ruled that public land such as those owned by USFS, BLM, WDFW, and DNR is considered "open and unclaimed". Now for a scenario, you own 100 acres that is surrounded by a barb-wire fence and has no trespassing signs, that cannot be hunted because it is closed and claimed. However lets say you own 100 acres but do not have any fencing and no trespassing signs, tribal members can legally hunt the area because it appears to be "open and unclaimed"
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Hunterman on September 12, 2010, 07:16:17 PM
Here we go again,, beatting this dead horse  :beatdeadhorse: Lets all sit here and bitch, and not try to do anything..

Hunterman(Tony)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: washelkhntr on September 12, 2010, 07:17:57 PM
 :iamwithstupid:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 12, 2010, 07:21:44 PM
Here we go again,, beatting this dead horse  :beatdeadhorse: Lets all sit here and bitch, and not try to do anything..

Hunterman(Tony)

difference is I am trying to change it not just bitching....it wont change until there is a huge uproar or those receiving the entitlements decide a life of equality is better  :dunno: if you could operate otherwise illegal businesses and receive 10k per year just for being alive and have special privileges to fish and hunt and also live by separate laws.....would you
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: ICEMAN on September 12, 2010, 07:22:24 PM
Venting about it is highly theraputic...... What do you recommend doing.?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: logger on September 12, 2010, 07:28:05 PM
dead horse or not , being in the wood's everday I have seen things that would make a billy goat puke. they are going to have to get into this century on there own, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.I have also in a few rare occasions seen some tribal members do the right thing,as I have also seen non tribal guy's not do the right thing, only difference the latter was held accountable.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Antlerking on September 12, 2010, 07:31:37 PM
I am probably the most prejudice member on this site and it seems like the native things come up once a month on this site and I have learned to keep my mouth shut, but damn things need to change if I had money I think I could make a dif. but I am just a poor guy sitting on the sidelines watching this whole ordeal and it makes me sick everytime I think of the word indian and hunting or fishing.

I vented a little and I will bite my lip now a get ready for my high hunt adventure into the pasayton were there are no roads and no natives.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 12, 2010, 08:10:39 PM
I am probably the most prejudice member on this site and it seems like the native things come up once a month on this site and I have learned to keep my mouth shut, but damn things need to change if I had money I think I could make a dif. but I am just a poor guy sitting on the sidelines watching this whole ordeal and it makes me sick everytime I think of the word indian and hunting or fishing.

I vented a little and I will bite my lip now a get ready for my high hunt adventure into the pasayton were there are no roads and no natives.

HA!!!!! funny thing is that it wasnt 50 yards from the road!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on September 12, 2010, 08:49:48 PM
did i just read on their own website and their own regs that there will be NO hunting at night with the use of artifical lights?? weird. they probably have used all their resources for finding a way to capture the suns rays trap them in a device that looks like a spotlight, then take the cover off at night and use these natural light rays to spotlight their pray from the road.   Im sure the old school "traditional" guys still use the primitive battery powered spotlights. And when they get caught and in trouble take the punishment of sitting in the corner for 15 mins, or no TV for the night.  ;)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Yak-NDN on September 12, 2010, 09:00:48 PM
I just do the sun dance. No problem we do it all the time. lol
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: high country on September 12, 2010, 09:02:22 PM
I have said it before, entitlement breeds jealousy and hatred. It is living proof, look at all entitled groups, not just the indians.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on September 12, 2010, 09:05:42 PM
actually really funny response.  thanks. I just went and read the Colville Non Tribal members hunting regs, things are looking up, i can hunt turkey rabbits and geese
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: high country on September 12, 2010, 09:07:35 PM
actually really funny response.  thanks. I just went and read the Colville Non Tribal members hunting regs, things are looking up, i can hunt turkey rabbits and geese

and the best part is..........you can do it out of a caddy with an ar 15 while drinking a 40
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on September 12, 2010, 09:09:14 PM
LOL
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Team Baze on September 12, 2010, 09:14:41 PM
I have said it before, entitlement breeds jealousy and hatred. It is living proof, look at all entitled groups, not just the indians.

Agree!!!!

And about earlier how do you know these people are natives and just not poachers. It is probably like anywere else 95% follow native rules while it is the 5% that give them a bad name and do what they want, just like sportsmen.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 12, 2010, 09:33:11 PM
I think that before most rant and rave about what they THINK the Indians do wrong, they should learn the tribal laws when it comes to hunting.  I have a few friends that are from the Yakima Nation, one just shot a big 6x6.  Instead of bichin about it, why dont you ask them what their regulations are.  Just my  :twocents:  I've been hunting and fishing in this state for almost 40 years and I've seen white folk do some pretty bad things in the woods when it comes to hunting and fishing.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 12, 2010, 10:20:33 PM
in the packwood area i saw some indians hunting out of a ford ranger pick up, marroon, and they had two ak47's that they were hunting elk with. you never see the media talk of this sh*t that they do, "mother earth", give me a friggin break!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: the1rod on September 12, 2010, 11:08:02 PM
  Instead of bichin about it, why dont you ask them what their regulations are. 

from what i read i think that was the original intent of this post... but with every post about natives it went into a debate about what they do and dont do.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 13, 2010, 07:09:17 AM
  Instead of bichin about it, why dont you ask them what their regulations are. 

from what i read i think that was the original intent of this post... but with every post about natives it went into a debate about what they do and dont do.

thanks for clearing that up rod. thats kinda my exact first post. Im not here to b**** about the indians, sometimes i do not like their concepts, But i was looking for some regulations on Big game hunting like the colockum. the main reason for asking is, and its a no brainer, that herd is hurting, we all know numbers are very low, and the hunter to elk ratio is ridiculous. If there isnt regulation the elk wont last long.... what elk are there anywhoos.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 13, 2010, 07:16:42 AM
  Instead of bichin about it, why dont you ask them what their regulations are. 

from what i read i think that was the original intent of this post... but with every post about natives it went into a debate about what they do and dont do.

if we are managing the wildlife for the benefit of the wildlife we cannot have separate regulations everyone must follow the same rules seeing as they dont then there is no management so why even bother with regulations  :dunno:  oh that is right its for profit to the state not benefit to the people of the land ;)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 13, 2010, 07:25:05 AM
I know that the op wasnt bashing the Indians.  I only know about the Yakima Nation as these are the people I work with.  I think what most dont understand is that the State really has no say in what the Indians do or dont do.  The Indian hunting reg's, or lack there of, go's back to original treaties.  I know that just like the white folk, when it comes to hunting and fishing, not all Indians follow the rules that have been set forth.  Yes the Indian reg's are very liberal, and yes it is very hard for the WDFW to manage the herds. The members of the Yakima Nation that I know DO really care about the animals and sustaining the population of both dear and elk.  I just think that those member's here that continually bash the Indians, well maybe you should talk with some of said Indians and learn a little bit.  Just my rant!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 13, 2010, 07:33:34 AM
They should be able to do whatever they want on tribal land but its completely BS (even though its legal) that they have separate rules on public land and animals.  No one is any more or less deserving that anyone else in that regard.  To grant special privileges based solely on your birth is racial discrimination.  In this case it might be labeled "reverse" because the minority is granted the right but it doesn't change the fact its something that shouldn't be tolerated in modern society.

Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: wastickslinger on September 13, 2010, 07:48:00 AM
actually really funny response.  thanks. I just went and read the Colville Non Tribal members hunting regs, things are looking up, i can hunt turkey rabbits and geese

Where does it say turkey??? I dont see that.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 13, 2010, 08:07:58 AM
They should be able to do whatever they want on tribal land but its completely BS (even though its legal) that they have separate rules on public land and animals. 
and those rules were set forth in the treaty signed in the 1800's.  The Tribe reserved there right to hunt and fish within the bounderies of all ceded land. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 13, 2010, 11:53:39 AM
They should be able to do whatever they want on tribal land but its completely BS (even though its legal) that they have separate rules on public land and animals. 
and those rules were set forth in the treaty signed in the 1800's.  The Tribe reserved there right to hunt and fish within the bounderies of all ceded land. 

I understand that they have a legal right to do so.  I'm saying in my personal opinion I think its utter BS that some group in the united states, based on being born, has more right to animals & resources on public land than others.  They have the right to hunt public land following the same rules as everyone else, but that is it.  Treaties were written at a time there weren't limits/regulations etc. and its ridiculous that things were interpreted from them to circumvent modern regulations.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 13, 2010, 12:04:53 PM
They should be able to do whatever they want on tribal land but its completely BS (even though its legal) that they have separate rules on public land and animals. 
and those rules were set forth in the treaty signed in the 1800's.  The Tribe reserved there right to hunt and fish within the bounderies of all ceded land. 

I understand that they have a legal right to do so.  I'm saying in my personal opinion I think its utter BS that some group in the united states, based on being born, has more right to animals & resources on public land than others.  They have the right to hunt public land following the same rules as everyone else, but that is it.  Treaties were written at a time there weren't limits/regulations etc. and its ridiculous that things were interpreted from them to circumvent modern regulations.

I totally agree.  If those treaties are fair then they need to do away with all rules period.....no need for anyone to be impeded in their right to harvest to provide for themselves  :dunno: and the fact that the government does infringes on my right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....seriously either we all live by the same rules or we get over this whole discrimination BS and realize that it is those very people who feel entitled who continue to perpetuate discrimination and racism..... I do not tell them to name their fireworks stand derogatory things yet go read the names all derogatory, the minute an agent confronts them they flash the race card so even if they are poaching by their own tribes regulations they cannot be convicted in our courts......please please tell me how any of this is either fair or beneficial to the unity of a nation and a sense of equality among its citizens  :dunno:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on September 13, 2010, 12:14:27 PM
 "I think what most dont understand is that the State really has no say in what the Indians do or dont do.  The Indian hunting reg's, or lack there of, go's back to original treaties."

 Not entirely true and some here have spent eons studying this, FYI. The State does have the authority to limit harvest when necessary, they have no balls to buck the hand that feeds them (I mean her). You are also forgetting many court decisions that were based on other court decisions, not treaties that redefined these rights in different circumstances, in a lot of ways the original treaties are outdated based on those recent cases. If one looked at the original tribal cessions map, they would never know the Nooksack's could hunt elk in Oak Creek today :twocents:.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Atroxus on September 13, 2010, 12:15:05 PM
Here's a link to the Yakama Nation regulations for tribal hunting: http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php. (http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php.)  The ceded area includes all publicly owned portions of the Yakima and Colockum elk herd ranges.

Those are the regulations for non-tribal members who buy a permit to hunt the Yakima Rez. Most tribes do not post their regs online, some do but not the Yakimas or the Muckleshoots.

Actually there is a link to the tribal regs as well on that site. Here. http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php (http://www.ynwildlife.org/tribalhunting.php)

PS The period at the end of the doublelung's URL is what makes it go to a different page.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Alchase on September 13, 2010, 01:33:21 PM
Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

If it was the early 1900s they would be using bows and traditional hunting ways for sustenance only, as stated when the current rights were granted


 :rolleyes: ya right
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 13, 2010, 03:41:36 PM
They should be able to do whatever they want on tribal land but its completely BS (even though its legal) that they have separate rules on public land and animals. 
and those rules were set forth in the treaty signed in the 1800's.  The Tribe reserved there right to hunt and fish within the bounderies of all ceded land. 

I understand that they have a legal right to do so. 


Thats just great!!!!! they have the right to shoot our big bulls. I dont follow. yes its legal, you have to earn rights though, and shooting a big bull in a suppressed area on a regular basis and knowing the herd is hurting is not an earned right.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 13, 2010, 03:45:28 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

Give me a break.  :bash:

:yeah:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: crabbyguy24 on September 13, 2010, 04:01:12 PM
Regulations HA!!! They do whatever they want and if they can't do it they will throw a fit until they can!!! Like the Makah's killing whales!!!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 13, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
Regulations HA!!! They do whatever they want and if they can't do it they will throw a fit until they can!!! Like the Makah's killing whales!!!

i see why someone registered an account. lol
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: spikehunter on September 13, 2010, 07:51:34 PM
Iceman & bone hit the nail on the head, w/out white man there would be NOTHING :bash:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: 1buckdown on September 13, 2010, 09:40:22 PM
 :iamwithstupid:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: shanevg on September 13, 2010, 09:57:04 PM
I have said it before, entitlement breeds jealousy and hatred. It is living proof, look at all entitled groups, not just the indians.

Agree!!!!

And about earlier how do you know these people are natives and just not poachers. It is probably like anywere else 95% follow native rules while it is the 5% that give them a bad name and do what they want, just like sportsmen.

It probably is the 5% that give them the bad names, just like 5% of hunters give the rest of us a bad name.  The problem is when a Tribal hunter does something illegal (e.g. wastage, etc.) nothing happens.  No one charges them, they get no tickets.  If anyone else did something illegal, they wouldn't be allowed to hunt for years. 


The real problem comes from the lack of communication between tribal regulation makers and WDFW.  For example, I have been told by a Nooksack tribal member that Nooksacks and Lummis are allowed one goat tag per family.  WDFW says that Mt. Baker goat herd can handle up to 8 goats taken out per year.  Well it's no wonder the goat herds fluctuate so much, there is no biological regulation on what the tribal members do.  In addition to that, they are hunting areas that aren't even open for hunting because of lack of goat populations (e.g. Church Mountain off of Mt. Baker Highway) without any regards to what the bioligists are saying.  What we need is for the tribal rule makers and WDFW to get on the same page and for some sort of way to actually charge an illegal tribal hunter.  Then things would work much better!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: buckreaper on September 14, 2010, 01:17:15 AM
The natives choose segregation by continuing to abuse and use special rights and continuing to want to be treated different and not equal the ones who want to be equal leave the rez in my experience and often do not go back.

Well said!!!!  Like with any race, organization, or whatever.  The blatant reflects on the whole group.  So... until the tribes fall more into line with the rest of the country this will continue to be discussed, cussed, and debated.

As far as the comment that if it was legal most everyone would do it...maybe, but I doubt it.  Any responsible hunter would know that it would be short-lived.  The deer and elk populations could not sustain themselves with that kind of abuse.  I would be the first to agree our game department sucks but if there was no rules and regulations just imagine what it would be like.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 14, 2010, 07:36:45 AM
If its public land then ALL users should have to follow the same rules, this is 2010, its no longer about sustenance hunting for Indians any more than it is for the white man.  They are free to take as many or as little as they want from their reservations as far as I'm concerned but public land should be an equal playing field as it is paid for and manage by and for all of us.  Its time for a change, this is not an era that blatantly racist rules should continue.  Slavery was a practice in the era these treaties were written, we've seen the error of racially minded behavior there.  I don't see why progress shouldn't be embraced on this front as well.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: WALLEYERICK on September 14, 2010, 09:34:38 AM
Something to chew on: I have read this thread, and until it happens to you, I can see some here still believe all is good. Here is a short story of what happened this weekend while scouting the blues. Most of this story is second hand but the shots we heard first hand (the bow hunter may read and correct me some). My buddy drew for a big bull tag in a unit next to Lick creek so we where scouting the area this past weekend. Sunday evening we split up and sat to listen for bulls. My buddy was sitting on a ridge point when 3 bow hunters approched. My buddy talked briefly with them then let them pass and continue ahead of him. Not wanting to mess with there hunt, he sat still for most of the evening where he was. Bugling was heard and so where shots. I picked up one guy while my buddy walked back to camp. We passed a truck headed out of where we where camped and stopped them to see how they did. They said they had a spike and 2 cows, and a monster whitetail buck less than 80 yards and coming. They also mentioned that they could see a big bull across on another ridge. BANG! BANG! BANG! from right over there head towards the big bull. We all heard the shots and swear the third shot hit. (it sounds different). Anyway, the archer said he was livid and headed up the hill to where the shots had been fired. He met two tribal men standing with guns. He said to them that he hoped they where shooting at bear, and they stated that they where shooting at elk but missed. He then ranted that he thought they where suppose to stay in the Lick creek area and no where else!! When he was telling us this he was pretty hot! Im not sure about units, but it sounded like this guy was. Thats my story, like it or not, it happened. Until we change things in the blues, the state and the RMEF had made a great 9 month trophy area for the tribe....... and the 20 some big bull tag holders.
 frustrated...........
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Rick on September 14, 2010, 03:43:18 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

Hypocrite: : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

All of a sudden you have a couple "native" friends and now you feel like you're living in the early 1900s. :rolleyes: Have you told your "native" friends about all the times you bitched about tribal nets and "native" poachers?

You used to bad mouth indians with the best of them.

You're getting a bit self-righteous don't ya' think?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 14, 2010, 04:01:43 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

I agree.  That's why WE have regulations.  What most are upset about it the LACK of regulations.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to properly regulate a population of animals when one group of people can kill whatever whenever.  Can't be done.  That's why responsible and ethical game departments ie WDFW IDFW etc have game regulations and seasons.  Whereas unethical and unresponsible game departments such as our local Indian tribes do not have such regs thus the end result is you have a bunch of people who take advantage of the regs and kill whatever whenever.  Every year a certain family in the Yakama tribe kills more branch bulls each year in the Colockum than all of us Americans do combined.  

Its not the 1800's its 2010.  Its time they acted like it and begin a modern game managment plan like the rest of us have to follow.  Also whatever happened to everyone being treated equally.  The fact that they can kill whatever whenever and we can't is called DISCRIMINATION  here's what Webster has to say about discrimination.

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

I have yet to have a single Indian come up with a valid comback to this definition.  I would LOVE for someone to tell me how this type of discrimination is okay.  The \Jim Crow laws were unnacceptable.  So are these laws.  Discrimination is wrong no matter what.  
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 14, 2010, 04:11:42 PM
I forgot to mention the reason I brought up Jim Crow laws.  Members say it is their treaty rights and laws etc and thus they shouldn't change.  If something is wrong it should and CAN change.  The Jim Crow laws were wrong and were eventually deemed unconstitutional based on their discriminatory nature.  These "laws" can and will eventually change mark my words.  Gregoire will eventually be gone and replaced with another.  That's when things will finally start to change for the good.   ;)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Team Baze on September 14, 2010, 05:01:00 PM
I'm not Native but have friends that are and I bet that about 90% of the people that sit on here and bitch about the Natives hunting rights would do the same thing that they do if you were born with brown skin. Just reading some of the posts on here about natives makes me think that we are back in the early 1900's and we live in the south.

Hypocrite: : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings




All of a sudden you have a couple "native" friends and now you feel like you're living in the early 1900s. :rolleyes: Have you told your "native" friends about all the times you bitched about tribal nets and "native" poachers?

You used to bad mouth indians with the best of them.

You're getting a bit self-righteous don't ya' think?

Thanks Rick for the definition of hypocrite.  :chuckle:

Here is another one: Loyalty: the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations. When I'm friends with someone I'm loyal, I'm not going to sit back and let people talk sh*t about my friends and do nothing about it.

You are absoululey right I use to bad mouth them until I got to know more then a few of them and if you would have read my other post I said it was the 10% that give the other 90% a bad name just like sportsmen.

By me stating that "if you were born with brown skin you would do the same" doesn't make me a "self-righteous". I was just stating the facts!

By the way just because I make two statements about the Indians you and Brian think I'm some spokesperson for them? It is called actually getting to know them and sticking up for your friends.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Rick on September 14, 2010, 05:50:15 PM






By me stating that "if you were born with brown skin you would do the same" doesn't make me a spokesperson for the Indians I was just stating the facts.
By the way just because I make two statements about the Indians you and Brian think I'm some spokesperson for them? It is called actually getting to know them and sticking up for your friends.

Actually,"having brown skin and doing the same" isn't a fact,thats your opinion.

And yea,you do come across as a spokesperson for them. You need the definition of that also?

You're doing what you do best...stirring up *censored*. :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Team Baze on September 14, 2010, 05:59:48 PM
Since we are getting into definitoins here is one for you;

Loyalty: the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations. When I'm friends with someone I'm loyal, I'm not going to sit back and let people talk sh*t about my friends and do nothing about it.

As for there rights whether you agree with them or not It isn't going to change so people need to get over it and get on with their lives.

I'm not the only one on here with this feeling so why aren't you talking sh*t to them?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 14, 2010, 06:56:05 PM
loyalty to my children and grandchildren means I want them to see wildlife in the wild and not only in zoos so brown purple or yellow skin doesn't matter I am not gonna hunt any population into oblivion just because I CAN....or am entitled to by a treaty.
I also have friends who are native and possibly native blood in my veins.....this does not mean I shouldnt fight for proper management and equal access.... currently management is impossible and access is not equal.  Discrimination by a minority is no better than discrimination by a majority its all still discrimination.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 14, 2010, 07:15:33 PM
Since we are getting into definitoins here is one for you;

Loyalty: the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations. When I'm friends with someone I'm loyal, I'm not going to sit back and let people talk sh*t about my friends and do nothing about it.

As for there rights whether you agree with them or not It isn't going to change so people need to get over it and get on with their lives.

I'm not the only one on here with this feeling so why aren't you talking sh*t to them?

Actually they can and will change. As soon as we get a new set of leadership in and WE as hunters and sportsman are willing to SUE for equal rights based on discrimination based upon race they will be deemed unconstitutional and will be struck down just like slavery and the Jim crow laws. We just need to first come together using photographic evidence and raise awareness etc to help the ball along. IT WILL HAPPEN!!! Oh and you didn't sound like a spokesman to me.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Team Baze on September 14, 2010, 08:15:09 PM
l means I want them to see wildlife in the wild and not only in zoos so brown purple or yellow skin doesn't matter I am not gonna hunt any population into oblivion just because I CAN....or am entitled to by a treaty.

This is exactlly what I'm talking about, just because a Indian is out hunting you are assuming they are killing anything that walks? They do have limits on how much they can harvest. I bet you there are NON-Indian poachers out there that do more damage then what tribal hunters do to the elk population. I have a friend who is part of the Elwha tribe and his hunting season is 6 months long but he can only take 1 elk.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: buckmaster_wa on September 14, 2010, 08:20:16 PM
I tell you what. The Yakama indians must not have any bag limit on animals because they usually try to fill the bed of there trucks up with bulls and bucks when they go hunting.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: ICEMAN on September 14, 2010, 08:22:32 PM
Baze, the problem I have seen is that a single hunter for a tribe very often is allowed to hunt and fill many many tags for many many folks annual allotment, then for additional tribal ceremonies, then to refill freezers if and when the power goes out and the meat "spoils".
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on September 18, 2010, 03:03:13 AM
The question i ask any non - enrolled member is What if you where enrolled Would you go hunting?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: alanger on September 18, 2010, 03:11:03 AM
l means I want them to see wildlife in the wild and not only in zoos so brown purple or yellow skin doesn't matter I am not gonna hunt any population into oblivion just because I CAN....or am entitled to by a treaty.

This is exactlly what I'm talking about, just because a Indian is out hunting you are assuming they are killing anything that walks? They do have limits on how much they can harvest. I bet you there are NON-Indian poachers out there that do more damage then what tribal hunters do to the elk population. I have a friend who is part of the Elwha tribe and his hunting season is 6 months long but he can only take 1 elk.

NOW your suggesting its not indians at all when they dont even care and tell us they are??? ok. well with 8 posts it doesnt look like your that active of a poster maybe you should check out some past indian threads there BUB, Im just saying they are digging a hole for them selves and your just helping them fill it back up.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 18, 2010, 08:35:12 AM
The question i ask any non - enrolled member is What if you where enrolled Would you go hunting?

NO not any more than I do now.  There should me no special rules on public lands for one group of people based solely on race period.  They can kill as much as they want on their land.

You mention the Elwha tribe so do they think its fair that they have rules and follow them and others can hunt the same grounds however they please  :dunno: because I know there are a few tribes that have good regulations and work with local agencies and actually turn in numbers but this is mostly in other states where the boldt decision did not grant them super special rights above and beyond what the treaty actually reads  :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bobcat on September 18, 2010, 09:01:56 AM
The question i ask any non - enrolled member is What if you where enrolled Would you go hunting?

Sure I would go hunting but I wouldn't say I was hunting for meat for my family and then go out and kill 10 mature bulls out of the same area, and sell the heads to taxidermist or to whoever will buy them and/or enter them in the record books.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 19, 2010, 09:04:12 AM
This is exactlly what I'm talking about, just because a Indian is out hunting you are assuming they are killing anything that walks? They do have limits on how much they can harvest. I bet you there are NON-Indian poachers out there that do more damage then what tribal hunters do to the elk population. I have a friend who is part of the Elwha tribe and his hunting season is 6 months long but he can only take 1 elk.

How well do you think the elk populations would do if ALL Washington residents had 6 months to take any elk they wanted with any weapon?  So remind me again how its not racist that this person just by virtue of birth gets that right to elk on public land (which is funded and managed by all of us) where as the rest of us need to stick to a couple week season with limitations on which elk we can take (assuming we don't have a special permit that everyone can apply for)?  Then factor in other tribes have even looser "regulations" for themselves...  Its a ridiculous situation in the year 2010.  "We" don't treat indians in the negative ways aside from hunting that went on when these treaties were signed still, why is hunting unable to keep up with modern progress?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 19, 2010, 02:55:51 PM
This thread is funny, lol.  It's full of people who want to change the Indians.  An interesting thought for sure.  How about we look at the problems within ourselves first.  I have a job that lets me spend a lot of time in the woods.  For the last 2 weeks I've spent time with my son bear hunting where there has been a lot of archery hunters.  How many deer and elk do you think have been hit with an arrow this week and never recovered?  I know of at least 10 in one unit. In just a few days, muzzy season starts, how many then?  It might be fun for many of you to sit on the internet and complain about what you see the Natives do that you would never do, and to talk about 100 year old treaties and how out dated they are.  I think that we white folk have enough problems of our own.  I dont know how many of you folks actually live in the woods, but there is a whole lot more poaching going on then just what the Indians do.  How many of you have ever snagged a salmon or stealhead and kept it?  Well guess what, if you did, you poached that fish.  There are way to many animals dying in the woods because people dont know how to shoot their weapon.  Don't know if this makes any sense or not but just some thoughts from a guy who lives on the Mountain.

Cheers
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 19, 2010, 04:11:26 PM
This thread is funny, lol.  It's full of people who want to change the Indians.  An interesting thought for sure.  How about we look at the problems within ourselves first.  I have a job that lets me spend a lot of time in the woods.  For the last 2 weeks I've spent time with my son bear hunting where there has been a lot of archery hunters.  How many deer and elk do you think have been hit with an arrow this week and never recovered?  I know of at least 10 in one unit. In just a few days, muzzy season starts, how many then?  It might be fun for many of you to sit on the internet and complain about what you see the Natives do that you would never do, and to talk about 100 year old treaties and how out dated they are.  I think that we white folk have enough problems of our own.  I dont know how many of you folks actually live in the woods, but there is a whole lot more poaching going on then just what the Indians do.  How many of you have ever snagged a salmon or stealhead and kept it?  Well guess what, if you did, you poached that fish.  There are way to many animals dying in the woods because people dont know how to shoot their weapon.  Don't know if this makes any sense or not but just some thoughts from a guy who lives on the Mountain.

Cheers

Those are definitely problems for sure but doesn't change the fact its racist that Indians are allowed grossly more privileges (we aren't talking poaching here) on PUBLIC land that all of us are funding.  Distraction isn't a solution to the problem.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 19, 2010, 04:14:51 PM
  Distraction isn't a solution to the problem.

Like I said, LOL
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: steen on September 19, 2010, 04:18:34 PM
I shot my elk on tribal land in the Blues last year.  I didn't see any tribal hunters at all just the manager of the tribal land.  He gave us a map of the area so we knew where the bounderies were.  It was a pleasant hunt, my first elk (6X6)and he asked for a signed picture of me and the elk.  You just can't shot a cow on the tribal land.  It has just been opened up to regular hunters in the last few years.  I got the idea the tribal members didn't hunt it.  He was from Oregon.  
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: FC on September 19, 2010, 04:34:18 PM
This argument is stupid. I'm sure not all indians are wasteful pukes that take as much of everything as they can possibly get away with, sell what they can before they get too drunk and waste the rest. All but one of them that i have had any experience with do though, I've been soured on more than one friendship over this kind of behavior.

Have I seen non-indians poach or pull similar bs? Sure! The difference being that it seems to be about 1-10% of non-indians doing this and 1-10% of indians NOT doing this.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 19, 2010, 04:48:00 PM
Wazukie I think that you are completely missing the point.  The fact that their game regs are different than ours is no different than the Jim Crowe laws.  According to you and your opinion you fully support the Jim Crowe laws.  I urge you to look up the definition of Racism and Discrimination.  I believe that you will find that both of those definitions define the difference in Indians game laws and the game laws that we American's must follow.  This is THE ONLY set of laws that I know of that discriminates based upon race in America.  So your fine with that.  Please explain your reasons!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wazukie on September 19, 2010, 05:10:36 PM
all Im saying is quit complaining about the  laws that were set forth over 100 years ago and set forth to change them.  I also get tired of all the Indian bashing that goes on in here.  It gets old!!! I've never said that I agree with the whole Sovereign Nation Idea. My opinion is if the want to be a total Sovereign Nation, then lets put up fences and give them a visa if they want to enter our Nation.

The issue is not a State issue, It is a Federal Issue.  It is the Federal Government that agreed to the right of the treaties, which included their right to hunt and fish on all ceded lands. I know that the Yakima Nation has Hunting regulations, as liberal as they may be.  I also know that not all Yakima's follow these regulations.  I also know that they dump a whole lot of money to preserve fish and wildlife in this state.  It may not seam that way, but from what I've seen, well thats where my comments come from.  I can tell you this much, if it wasnt for the Yakima Nation, you wouldnt have the fishery on the Kilckitat that you have today, because the state nor the feds have the money to put into it.  Just my observations with working with one tribe in this nation we ALL live in.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 19, 2010, 06:53:40 PM
Okay I see what your saying now. We agree on alot. For the record the Yakamas have put money into the salmon but that's it. They have not helped out in the slightest in regards to deer and elk. . The state could do alot more but chooses not to because of who runs our state. All of which is redundant to the main issue which is...

If we as hunters want things to change we have to forget about hunting rights as the main point. Most people don't care and if they did would side against us. If we want change we have to attack this issue for what it is A 100% Civil Rights Issue! That's how we win.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: letsgosleddin on September 19, 2010, 07:25:17 PM
Each tribe works with the state to set the regs for each season. Im Lummi. Our regs change from year to year. Last year we could hunt the st helens area. this year we cannot. and can now hunt other areas. In many places we can hunt for either sex but in others its bull only. Yes our seasons are longer and can use rifle or bow. Many people who are bad talking the indians on here i bet would love to be able to hunt under indian regs.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on September 26, 2010, 09:34:33 PM
all Im saying is quit complaining about the  laws that were set forth over 100 years ago and set forth to change them.  I also get tired of all the Indian bashing that goes on in here.  It gets old!!! I've never said that I agree with the whole Sovereign Nation Idea. My opinion is if the want to be a total Sovereign Nation, then lets put up fences and give them a visa if they want to enter our Nation.

The issue is not a State issue, It is a Federal Issue.  It is the Federal Government that agreed to the right of the treaties, which included their right to hunt and fish on all ceded lands. I know that the Yakima Nation has Hunting regulations, as liberal as they may be.  I also know that not all Yakima's follow these regulations.  I also know that they dump a whole lot of money to preserve fish and wildlife in this state.  It may not seam that way, but from what I've seen, well thats where my comments come from.  I can tell you this much, if it wasnt for the Yakima Nation, you wouldnt have the fishery on the Kilckitat that you have today, because the state nor the feds have the money to put into it.  Just my observations with working with one tribe in this nation we ALL live in.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________


FIrst of all if we put a fence through "Yakama's Land" the fence would stretch across 24.3 million acres.. did you know that? That the yakama's territory went that far before we took there land from them? The Yakama tribe is one of the
biggest contributors to the salmon run maybe you should think a little bit harder before you open you mouth. and your Nation? We landed on there nation in the first place. so Boo Hoo that you dont get to shoot bulls and bucks. get over \
it. you want to change a treaty? do you evern know what that means? you think that the hunting is bad. wait tell you see the check the goverment would have to write for changing the treaty. good luck. so suck it up and quit crying about elk and deer. i dont know one person in this world that if had the chance and  handed a rifle and a 6 x 6 standing in front of them and some one told them to shoot with out getting in trouble. would turn that down. And i dont beleave anyone that says " i would but i wouldnt say it was for the meat". get real. i now if some one told me that i would. And anther thing inidains cant put animals in the record book. Who said that?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 27, 2010, 11:38:38 AM
i dont know one person in this world that if had the chance and  handed a rifle and a 6 x 6 standing in front of them and some one told them to shoot with out getting in trouble. would turn that down.

Its not even the argument.  The issue is one ground of US citizens should not have more right to that possibility than others just by the race they were born into.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bullcanyon on September 27, 2010, 03:38:22 PM
If nothing else. They should have to hunt with the same equipment that they used when the treaty was signed. If they want to use a rifle. They should have to buy a wa state license and follow the same rules we do. Times have changed. Laws should too.

We weed out dirtbags in our woods the best we can. Sense of pride wont let us put up with it. One would think there has to be some pride left in some of the tribes.

We need organization before a difference will be made.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 27, 2010, 03:49:26 PM
I have 10 points for elk, honestly. I haven't applied for a tag because I work out of town.
What should I do ?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: FC on September 27, 2010, 03:52:42 PM
It is the Federal Government that agreed to the right of the treaties, which included their right to hunt and fish on all ceded lands.

I don't think anyone here cares about what hunting/fishing is done on tribal land, its the hunting/fishing on non-tribal land that pisses everyone off. Your argument is full of hate and lacking in grammar, I am guessing you have tribal rights yourself?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on September 27, 2010, 04:38:10 PM
my argument is not full of hate. Maybe you should read some other post about native Americans. that is hate. because
some one is different then you and gets to hunt when ever he wants. You hate him because you cant do the same. I have
seen bulls and buck lay dead with there horns cut off. but every ones is first to point a finger a the natives. but never
points the finger at the non - natives.  At least when you look in the back on there truck you see and elk and the meat and
not just the horns. I have been in the hills during modern rifle season. i have heard the gun shots late at night. but let me
guess you going to blame those shots on the natives right? At least they don't let it lay. i understand you frustration. but blaming every thing on the natives doesn't work. i think history tells us that one.  And face it you cant change the treaty. You cant change there hunting rights. So why don't we quit bashing them and take a look in the minor and see what we have become because of this. I know.. i see what native Americans do.. i see what they kill. but i also see what non- natives do and what they have done.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: ICEMAN on September 27, 2010, 06:17:43 PM
Nice try.

You cannot really try to insinuate that folks here are bigots, intolerant or are hateful. ( I know you didn't use the word bigot but hear me out...) Would you think it was intolerant or hateful if an individual basically only posted about the importance to speak up for and defend tribal hunters?  As far as I have seen around here..., most guys on this site have no problem crucifying tribal or white poachers. If you would take a bit of time to read how many threads we have on this site that address poaching, address any hunter not following the rules, you would see that we do "bash" white poachers. We would probably hang them if we lived in another time. Have we seen many tribal members on here suggesting that they need to enforce tribal game laws?  :dunno:  I feel that if a person only comes to the defense of one "race" than they are intolerant/bigotted. I see hunters here griping about any race, any lawbreaker.

The fact of the matter is that many here feel that the tribes do not police themselves, that tribal "regualtions" are a bunch of baloney, and that tribal members get a free ride even if caught breaking their own rules.

How many tribal prosecutions of tribal members are you aware of? Huh? Non tribal guys get tried every time if they get caught breaking a rule. 39 District courts and 39 Superior courts in this state and they all see non-tribal knuckleheads getting prosecuted for even the most insignificant of game laws. Now, how many tribal prosecutions do you think occur each year in this state...the tribes prosecuting tribal law breakers?...  :dunno:

There is no equity in this state regarding hunting and fishing laws, or the prosecution of violations of those laws. This is a major complaint about the tribes around here. Hide behind the treaties all you want, the fact is that it appears to most hunters that the tribes could care less about enforcing their own game laws. This is one thing that could be changed, and I really doubt that they will.....
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 27, 2010, 07:17:03 PM
Monstwr bull you are completely missing the point. I challenge you to argue against my point. Which is: the tribal hunting rights are extremely discriminatory. Look up the definition and tell me that its not. Just because a treaty says you can do something doesn't mean that its right. When that treaty was signed it was legal to own slaves. Well guess what that was wrong and we ammensed that right. 60 years ago Jim Crow laws allowed discrimination in public places. Because that was discriminatory those laws were ammended. Well guess what the fact that different people have different laws is DISCRIMINATION.

And guess what buddy the days of that discrimination is gonna end sooner than you think. Because once we prove that those laws that give you rights that I don't have because of race is discrimination and thus unconstitutional by by special rights.  Because guess what it was not a treaty that gave you those rights it was a supreme court decision that gave them to you. And guess what supreme court decisions are overturned all the time. So it will not be all that difficult to overturn.  I give it 4 years Max before that happens.

So please explain how this is an okay situation where different laws based upon race is okay. I would love to hear a good argument because so far no one has even responses to my argument.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: FC on September 27, 2010, 07:30:23 PM
Monster bull...I don't just run around blaming people for things but when I personally witness this crap?!?!?! I call it like I see it. I get pissed when I witness poaching and I generally make it stop too.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 27, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
OK!  Think about this.  And PLEASE don't be offended !!    ALL MEN CREATED EQUAL UNDER THE CONSITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!
No more treatys no more resevations no more federal govt. oversight

Wow did I say that??
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 27, 2010, 09:14:54 PM
because some one is different then you and gets to hunt when ever he wants.

That is just it, someone born to a tribe in my mind is no different than any other US citizen, they deserve no better or worse treatment than anyone else.  Its ridiculous to behave otherwise.  Granting special privileges on race is wrong and illegal in all other instances.

Its boggling to me as well folks will take all the "positive to them" racism they can pull their way but I'm pretty sure if we threw out some laws that Indians weren't allowed to do various things any other US citizen is allowed to do they'd be screaming up a storm about how wrong it is.  Enough of the hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Trailstrider on September 28, 2010, 08:09:40 AM
 :'( I am Native American, I do not receive special rights for hunting or fishing. I am Osage and cannot be carded if I want to.
Here is the point for all to ponder. Look up the definition of Native American, you will find that most of the users on this site fit the definition. When are we going to ask for equal treatment to our native lands? The definition says Born to the land and have known no other. If you have lived your whole life here you qualify under the definition! I try not to take it out on the natives but they need to understand that perception is everything, stay with the traditional hunting gear and make the Father proud!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 28, 2010, 08:42:48 AM
Can you really use the word Tribal and Regulations in the same sentence :tung:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 28, 2010, 11:17:52 AM
If state hunters think they are getting the short end of the stick right now.  Tough days are ahead if the Tribes ever decide pursue 50% of the deer and elk harvest.  It has happened with shellfish harvest and salmon? 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: chevysquid on September 28, 2010, 11:19:24 AM
:'( I am Native American, I do not receive special rights for hunting or fishing. I am Osage and cannot be carded if I want to.
Here is the point for all to ponder. Look up the definition of Native American, you will find that most of the users on this site fit the definition. When are we going to ask for equal treatment to our native lands? The definition says Born to the land and have known no other. If you have lived your whole life here you qualify under the definition! I try not to take it out on the natives but they need to understand that perception is everything, stay with the traditional hunting gear and make the Father proud!

That's a damn good point!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 28, 2010, 05:33:35 PM
Don't you think that treaty's have out grown the origanal intent.   Most treaty's say something like the Makah tribes
ARTICLE 4
The right of taking fish and of whaling or sealing at usual and accustomed grounds and stations is further secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the United States, and of erecting temporary houses for the purpose of curing, together with the privilege of hunting and gathering roots and berries on open and unclaimed lands: Provided, however, That they shall not take shellfish from any beds staked or cultivated by citizens.

Will someone explain "secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the United States"  what does in common mean?

What happened with the taking of shellfish staked or cultivated?   I think that property owners lost that in court!! :bash: :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 28, 2010, 07:14:32 PM
I knew he wouldn't respond, when you make it a civil rights issue they never have a response   :)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: eatonville45 on September 28, 2010, 07:30:12 PM
Whats really cool is elk aren't even native to this state, why do the Natives have any extra rights to hunt elk. maybe we should bring over some zebras maybe some monkeys i don't know. this shooting elk *censored* has to stop besides i was born here to I'm a native American to say other wise is racist.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 28, 2010, 07:56:10 PM
I would be embarrassed as a native to this state if I believed elk were not native to the state.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on September 28, 2010, 08:11:10 PM
Eatonville you are mistaken. Elk are marvel t Washington. There have always been Roosevelt. Elk in Western WA. Its in the Yakima and Kittitas County areas that elk were not native. A few elk wandered over the PCT but as far as a viable herd until 1919 the only elk herds that existed were in western Washington.

But yes it is ridicoulous that the Yakamas claim ancestoral rights t animals that didn't exist until e brought them here.

Doesn't matter though, more importantly MY CIVIL RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED because since I have white skin I don't have the same hunting rights that a Guy with red skin has. THINK BIG PEOPLE EQUAL RIGHTS IS HOW WE WILL WIN NOT THE OTHER STUFF. FOCUS ON EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: saylean on September 28, 2010, 08:18:55 PM
I have a few friends who are indian...I checked out their hunting regs the other day...it was 4 pages.

They had to pay 5 bucks non refundable, and then 10 bucks, which could be reimbursed.

2 deer, 1 elk any bull (for the most part), any bear....1 MOUNTAIN GOAT a year.... :dunno:

All I can do is give him crap about it, since it helps me cope...he didnt realize it was a OIL tag for us US citizens...I told him, "Hey man, there screwing ya, only one per year?!" He laughs.

I cant say that I wouldnt take advantage of it if I had the chance to hunt like him for goat (probably not get one every year, but man, could you imagine!?). In his defense, he has been working his butt off for an elk and bear without success as of yet.
I wish him luck and have given him tips on some hunting, as we are friends. BUT in my humble opinion, the regs/treaty should be updated to suit our modern times.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 28, 2010, 11:29:03 PM
A new idea! :rolleyes:   Could this be the start of a new.....

Oh wait can  we do that Mr moderator?

I mean can we the White/Caucasian ask for equal rights?

We might have to ask the smart people.  The leagel beagle type. :yike:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 29, 2010, 05:48:13 AM
Eatonville you are mistaken. Elk are marvel t Washington. There have always been Roosevelt. Elk in Western WA. Its in the Yakima and Kittitas County areas that elk were not native. A few elk wandered over the PCT but as far as a viable herd until 1919 the only elk herds that existed were in western Washington.

But yes it is ridicoulous that the Yakamas claim ancestoral rights t animals that didn't exist until e brought them here.

Doesn't matter though, more importantly MY CIVIL RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED because since I have white skin I don't have the same hunting rights that a Guy with red skin has. THINK BIG PEOPLE EQUAL RIGHTS IS HOW WE WILL WIN NOT THE OTHER STUFF. FOCUS ON EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!

I am in agreement tribal hunting is about racism and inequality and this time its the Caucasian Native Americans being treated in an unequal manner.  Special rights are not equal rights .......
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 29, 2010, 08:15:52 AM
So who is imposing the unequal rights on the state hunter?  Is it the tribes?  or is it ourselves?  The fact that state and tribal regulations look different, does that make it unequal rights?  No. It is just different regulations.  The tribes set their regulations based on their needs and their population while the state sets our regs based on what the populations can sustain due to a large hunting populace.  Based on the unequal rights arguments I am hearing, would it be safe to say that our neighboring state hunters have unequal rights since they might be able to get doe tags over the counter and we cant?  I have to pay out of state fees to hunt Montana this year.  Isn't than an unequal right as a U.S. citizen?   ;)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: halflife65 on September 29, 2010, 08:43:41 AM
I have a few friends who are indian...I checked out their hunting regs the other day...it was 4 pages.

They had to pay 5 bucks non refundable, and then 10 bucks, which could be reimbursed.

2 deer, 1 elk any bull (for the most part), any bear....1 MOUNTAIN GOAT a year.... :dunno:

All I can do is give him crap about it, since it helps me cope...he didnt realize it was a OIL tag for us US citizens...I told him, "Hey man, there screwing ya, only one per year?!" He laughs.

I cant say that I wouldnt take advantage of it if I had the chance to hunt like him for goat (probably not get one every year, but man, could you imagine!?). In his defense, he has been working his butt off for an elk and bear without success as of yet.
I wish him luck and have given him tips on some hunting, as we are friends. BUT in my humble opinion, the regs/treaty should be updated to suit our modern times.

Can they designate a hunter for themselves (are tags transferrable)?  For instance, if you were a 90 year old person, could you give your tag to someone to do all the shooting?  So, one guy with a bag full of tags from his parents and grandkids can go out and shoot a bunch of elk on behalf of other people?  I'm curious about how that works.  That might not be correct - I really don't know.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 29, 2010, 09:06:37 AM
Whats really cool is elk aren't even native to this state, why do the Natives have any extra rights to hunt elk. maybe we should bring over some zebras maybe some monkeys i don't know. this shooting elk *censored* has to stop besides i was born here to I'm a native American to say other wise is racist.
The original Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain elk populations in Washington were extirpated or driven to unsustainably low numbers by the late 1880s, and animals from Montana and Wyoming were released in a number of locations. Less well known, however, is the fact that farmers and ranchers raised concerns over elk damage to crops, range, haystacks and fences within a decade of their re-introduction to the Cascade Mountains in 1912. By the late 1940s, rural landowners in virtually every part of the elk's range issued complaints about elk.



Over the decades, wildlife managers have employed two different but parallel approaches to "problem" elk: attempt to keep the animals away from human activities, and control their numbers through hunting.



Lethal control became an official policy in 1931, when County Game Commissions were granted authority to declare elk "predatory" and have them killed to protect property. After its creation in 1933, the Washington State Game Department began establishing long seasons, combined with a focus on culling cow elk populations in areas where it wanted to prevent elk expansion. Between 1950 and 1952, about 212 antlerless elk were harvested in Washington for every 100 bulls. In the foothills west of the Yakima River, where much of the strongest anti-elk sentiment existed, the agency authorized large cow kills in 1938, 1943, 1949-51, 1966-70, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1982 and 1994.

Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: grundy53 on September 29, 2010, 09:10:54 AM
Eatonville you are mistaken. Elk are marvel t Washington. There have always been Roosevelt. Elk in Western WA. Its in the Yakima and Kittitas County areas that elk were not native. A few elk wandered over the PCT but as far as a viable herd until 1919 the only elk herds that existed were in western Washington.

But yes it is ridicoulous that the Yakamas claim ancestoral rights t animals that didn't exist until e brought them here.

Doesn't matter though, more importantly MY CIVIL RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED because since I have white skin I don't have the same hunting rights that a Guy with red skin has. THINK BIG PEOPLE EQUAL RIGHTS IS HOW WE WILL WIN NOT THE OTHER STUFF. FOCUS ON EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!!

Bullseye!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 29, 2010, 12:31:56 PM
So who is imposing the unequal rights on the state hunter?  Is it the tribes?  or is it ourselves?  The fact that state and tribal regulations look different, does that make it unequal rights?  No. It is just different regulations.  The tribes set their regulations based on their needs and their population while the state sets our regs based on what the populations can sustain due to a large hunting populace.  Based on the unequal rights arguments I am hearing, would it be safe to say that our neighboring state hunters have unequal rights since they might be able to get doe tags over the counter and we cant?  I have to pay out of state fees to hunt Montana this year.  Isn't than an unequal right as a U.S. citizen?   ;)

The fact there are different regulations for public land period means there are unequal rights.

Neighboring states having different rights is no different because we as US citizens can apply for those tags as well, what we can't do is get the same rights as tribal people.  No comparison.

Out of state fees... really?  Your struggling to make a reasonable argument here.  The game departments are state funded, if you don't pay taxes in that state I have no issue with that state wanting to try and recuperate some of their efforts for out of staters.  But since you opened up the "tag fees" can of worms, why the hell can tribal folks not only hunt more animals that their fellow US citizens in the same state but they have a different fee structure for those animals?

RACIST plain and simple. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: nontypical176 on September 29, 2010, 02:57:57 PM
Not wanting to get involved in this little argument too much, but there is a couple things I have learned.  Got 2 cousins that are 1/4 quinalt indian, about 1/2 German and then a cocktail of other races.  They are adopted into the tribe and their children as well, they go to a couple drummings a year and get benefits of being tribal members.  Most of their benefits come in the form of fishing rights (especially comercial), but their hunting season is quite liberal and basicly extends from I-5 to the West. 

They are very respectful of non tribal hunters and our seasons, but do take advantage of their opportunities.  The only thing that I have issue with is 25% blood and less in some cases and you can be conscidered a member of the tribe.  For crying out loud they are 50% German.  Im 1/64 Cheyenne, wonder if I can join.

Here in SW Washington hardly ever see tribal members hunting...........But theres a whole lotta poaching going on.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 29, 2010, 03:52:22 PM
It is easy to spot the tribal hunts.  They are the ones sitting on the side of the road waiting for the herd to get closer so they can shoot as much as possible and not have to drag. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: haugenna on September 29, 2010, 04:16:39 PM
The Yaks regs were 2 pages.  Ours is well over 80.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 29, 2010, 05:27:49 PM
80 pages is just the pamphlet not the regs.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: saylean on September 29, 2010, 05:29:48 PM
I have a few friends who are indian...I checked out their hunting regs the other day...it was 4 pages.

They had to pay 5 bucks non refundable, and then 10 bucks, which could be reimbursed.

2 deer, 1 elk any bull (for the most part), any bear....1 MOUNTAIN GOAT a year.... :dunno:

All I can do is give him crap about it, since it helps me cope...he didnt realize it was a OIL tag for us US citizens...I told him, "Hey man, there screwing ya, only one per year?!" He laughs.

I cant say that I wouldnt take advantage of it if I had the chance to hunt like him for goat (probably not get one every year, but man, could you imagine!?). In his defense, he has been working his butt off for an elk and bear without success as of yet.
I wish him luck and have given him tips on some hunting, as we are friends. BUT in my humble opinion, the regs/treaty should be updated to suit our modern times.

Can they designate a hunter for themselves (are tags transferrable)?  For instance, if you were a 90 year old person, could you give your tag to someone to do all the shooting?  So, one guy with a bag full of tags from his parents and grandkids can go out and shoot a bunch of elk on behalf of other people?  I'm curious about how that works.  That might not be correct - I really don't know.
I was told yes, you could. But you have to be tribal.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: halflife65 on September 29, 2010, 05:41:00 PM
Ok, that makes sense. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 29, 2010, 07:24:24 PM
So who is imposing the unequal rights on the state hunter?  Is it the tribes?  or is it ourselves?  The fact that state and tribal regulations look different, does that make it unequal rights?  No. It is just different regulations.  The tribes set their regulations based on their needs and their population while the state sets our regs based on what the populations can sustain due to a large hunting populace.  Based on the unequal rights arguments I am hearing, would it be safe to say that our neighboring state hunters have unequal rights since they might be able to get doe tags over the counter and we cant?  I have to pay out of state fees to hunt Montana this year.  Isn't than an unequal right as a U.S. citizen?   ;)

The fact there are different regulations for public land period means there are unequal rights.

Neighboring states having different rights is no different because we as US citizens can apply for those tags as well, what we can't do is get the same rights as tribal people.  No comparison.

Out of state fees... really?  Your struggling to make a reasonable argument here.  The game departments are state funded, if you don't pay taxes in that state I have no issue with that state wanting to try and recuperate some of their efforts for out of staters.  But since you opened up the "tag fees" can of worms, why the hell can tribal folks not only hunt more animals that their fellow US citizens in the same state but they have a different fee structure for those animGraals?

RACIST plain and simple. 
Granted the opportunities are different than ours I still don't see it a racist.  Those tribes with treaty rights get t hunt on public lands.  I am gong to assume we are talking about private timberlands, cause most people aren't really searchingout forest service land due to lack of game and logging.  First of all, to address the different regs for public lands, tribes get to set their seasons and the state gets to set theirs.  If you have issues with inequality, then WDFW should possibly take part of the blame.  Do the tribal regs need to mirror state regs or vise versa???  Also why does it matter to any of us what tribes pay for tabs?   I am sure we would all like to pay less money for our tabs if we could.  Nothing like paying for huntingtags and having most of the money going to fisheries.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 30, 2010, 07:41:32 AM
Granted the opportunities are different than ours I still don't see it a racist.  Those tribes with treaty rights get t hunt on public lands.  I am gong to assume we are talking about private timberlands, cause most people aren't really searchingout forest service land due to lack of game and logging.  First of all, to address the different regs for public lands, tribes get to set their seasons and the state gets to set theirs.  If you have issues with inequality, then WDFW should possibly take part of the blame.  Do the tribal regs need to mirror state regs or vise versa???  Also why does it matter to any of us what tribes pay for tabs?   I am sure we would all like to pay less money for our tabs if we could.  Nothing like paying for huntingtags and having most of the money going to fisheries.

Racism: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race".  They are allowed to do things the rest of US citizens can't based on their race... fits the definition 100%.

We are talking about public, private, or any land not on their reservation.  WDFW shouldn't take any blame that the wording of their regs are different than the tribal regs, there shouldn't be any separate tribal regs for the lands off reservation.  They should be held to the exact same WDFW regulations as every other person in this country.  100% equal rights when they step of their reservation land, absolutely no loop holes should be allowed.

You brought up the fees, I only pointed out again its a racist practice that someone pays a different fee structure based on the race they were born.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on September 30, 2010, 07:51:03 AM
Granted the opportunities are different than ours I still don't see it a racist.  Those tribes with treaty rights get t hunt on public lands.  I am gong to assume we are talking about private timberlands, cause most people aren't really searchingout forest service land due to lack of game and logging.  First of all, to address the different regs for public lands, tribes get to set their seasons and the state gets to set theirs.  If you have issues with inequality, then WDFW should possibly take part of the blame.  Do the tribal regs need to mirror state regs or vise versa???  Also why does it matter to any of us what tribes pay for tabs?   I am sure we would all like to pay less money for our tabs if we could.  Nothing like paying for huntingtags and having most of the money going to fisheries.

Racism: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race".  They are allowed to do things the rest of US citizens can't based on their race... fits the definition 100%.

We are talking about public, private, or any land not on their reservation.  WDFW shouldn't take any blame that the wording of their regs are different than the tribal regs, there shouldn't be any separate tribal regs for the lands off reservation.  They should be held to the exact same WDFW regulations as every other person in this country.  100% equal rights when they step of their reservation land, absolutely no loop holes should be allowed.

You brought up the fees, I only pointed out again its a racist practice that someone pays a different fee structure based on the race they were born.

exactly  :yeah:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 30, 2010, 09:12:01 AM
Racism: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race".  They are allowed to do things the rest of US citizens can't based on their race... fits the definition 100%.



I know that it is hard to get past the color of the skin issue, however the discrimination that is mentioned is based on U.S. government given treaty rights. Therefore the tribes, even though they have a different color of skin, are their own sovereign governments that can make their own regulations for all hunting areas that the U.S. Government gave them rights to hunt.  I am sorry to disappoint most of you, but treaties aren't being revoked by the U.S. Government.  If anything, more work should be done to work with the tribes so that everyone is managing the wildlife populations properly. I have mentioned this before, if the tribes ever decide to pursue 50% of Washington's deer and elk then we all might be in a hurt of trouble.  They already won 50% of the shellfish and salmon harvest.  The precedence is there in the courts.  Just my  :twocents:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on September 30, 2010, 12:42:07 PM
Racism: "Discrimination or prejudice based on race".  They are allowed to do things the rest of US citizens can't based on their race... fits the definition 100%.



I know that it is hard to get past the color of the skin issue, however the discrimination that is mentioned is based on U.S. government given treaty rights. Therefore the tribes, even though they have a different color of skin, are their own sovereign governments that can make their own regulations for all hunting areas that the U.S. Government gave them rights to hunt.  I am sorry to disappoint most of you, but treaties aren't being revoked by the U.S. Government.  If anything, more work should be done to work with the tribes so that everyone is managing the wildlife populations properly. I have mentioned this before, if the tribes ever decide to pursue 50% of Washington's deer and elk then we all might be in a hurt of trouble.  They already won 50% of the shellfish and salmon harvest.  The precedence is there in the courts.  Just my  :twocents:

Just because the US gov granted the rights doesn't change that its racist that one group of US citizens is granted privileges others aren't if they can trace back having a fraction of Indian ancestry. 

If they were truly their own sovereign governments then they should had to import/export everything that crosses their borders, shouldn't qualify as US citizens, shouldn't be granted any of the social services our citizens get, etc...  However they do not operate that way.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  I'm fine with them operating their reservation as they see fit but they are us citizens in all other factions and shouldn't have any rights outside of their reservation that anyone else doesn't have.

If they took 50% of the harvest we wouldn't be arguing because they herds would be gone in a couple years... on the flip side perhaps folks would realize how screwed up this is and demand the US gov. fix the problem.  And yes the US gov. has the power to do that just as simply as when slavery was outlawed.  In reality that stripped "property" away from people with no compensation, but it was obviously the just thing to do so it was tough *censored* for them.  This century is no longer about hunting for a way of live & means of survival so we're not causing a great  injustice to Indians by requiring them to behave like all other US citizens.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: J Snow73 on September 30, 2010, 12:54:48 PM
Quote
Just because the US gov granted the rights doesn't change that its racist that one group of US citizens is granted privileges others aren't if they can trace back having a fraction of Indian ancestry.  

If they were truly their own sovereign governments then they should had to import/export everything that crosses their borders, shouldn't qualify as US citizens, shouldn't be granted any of the social services our citizens get, etc...  However they do not operate that way.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  I'm fine with them operating their reservation as they see fit but they are us citizens in all other factions and shouldn't have any rights outside of their reservation that anyone else doesn't have.

If they took 50% of the harvest we wouldn't be arguing because they herds would be gone in a couple years... on the flip side perhaps folks would realize how screwed up this is and demand the US gov. fix the problem.  And yes the US gov. has the power to do that just as simply as when slavery was outlawed.  In reality that stripped "property" away from people with no compensation, but it was obviously the just thing to do so it was tough *censored* for them.  This century is no longer about hunting for a way of live & means of survival so we're not causing a great  injustice to Indians by requiring them to behave like all other US citizens.
I agree with this 100% it makes to much sense not to :twocents:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BobD on September 30, 2010, 01:09:48 PM
I wouldn't mind all the special treaty rights if they were 100%   Don't just pick and choose what you want to use or develop.  Hold them true to the date they were written.   When the treaty's were written do the think they meant diesel powered gill net boats.  I thought canoe and cedar nets.   Whaling with 50 cal.  No !


Don't get mad at the tribes for casinos.  It was Gov. Greg that said the state did not want any money from gaming! 
 >:( :bash: >:( :bash: >:( :bash: >:(
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Practical Approach on September 30, 2010, 02:39:01 PM
I wouldn't mind all the special treaty rights if they were 100%   Don't just pick and choose what you want to use or develop.  Hold them true to the date they were written.   When the treaty's were written do the think they meant diesel powered gill net boats.  I thought canoe and cedar nets.   Whaling with 50 cal.  No !


Don't get mad at the tribes for casinos.  It was Gov. Greg that said the state did not want any money from gaming! 
 >:( :bash: >:( :bash: >:( :bash: >:(

Be carefull what you wish for.  Tribes used to run herds off cliffs.  They also used no not have seasons.  There was a larger native population as well.  The treaty's also don't address methods for taking game.  I don't think that anyone at the time of treaty signing expected so many people jammed in Washington. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: whiteeyes on September 30, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
What it all boils down to is if I cant hunt like the Indians than its not right and fair to me so lets try and change everything to my liking because its all about me and screw everything past and present. As it stands now we have so many laws and rules coming down from big brother that he is here to save us from ourselves because of all the "its not fair " and "they hurt my feelings"  society.
I think we need to worry about keeping our Land of the Free and The Right to Bare Arms more than a few Indians hunting there given Treaty rights.



Peace
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on October 02, 2010, 10:06:45 AM
So who is imposing the unequal rights on the state hunter?  Is it the tribes?  or is it ourselves?  The fact that state and tribal regulations look different, does that make it unequal rights?  No. It is just different regulations.  The tribes set their regulations based on their needs and their population while the state sets our regs based on what the populations can sustain due to a large hunting populace.  Based on the unequal rights arguments I am hearing, would it be safe to say that our neighboring state hunters have unequal rights since they might be able to get doe tags over the counter and we cant?  I have to pay out of state fees to hunt Montana this year.  Isn't than an unequal right as a U.S. citizen?   ;)

No and I'll tell you why you're comparing apples to oranges.  ALL out of state hunters have to pay the same price in Montana, doesn't matter if your from Oregon, Utah or Washington.  We all pay the same.  All Montana Residents have to pay the same price as other Montana Residents. Also game laws differ from area to area based on the amount of game that can be responsibly harvested from each area.  So it is not unfair that in Montana each hunter can buy ten doe tags and in Washington we can only harvest one deer.  Different area, different game regulations.   So good try but not even close. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on October 02, 2010, 10:12:29 AM
What it all boils down to is if I cant hunt like the Indians than its not right and fair to me so lets try and change everything to my liking because its all about me and screw everything past and present. As it stands now we have so many laws and rules coming down from big brother that he is here to save us from ourselves because of all the "its not fair " and "they hurt my feelings"  society.
I think we need to worry about keeping our Land of the Free and The Right to Bare Arms more than a few Indians hunting there given Treaty rights.



Peace

 NO!!!!!  >:(  YOU COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT!!!!  Its not about me, me, me.  Its about equal rights.  Do you defend discrimination and think that its okay?  Descriibe to all of us how it is okay that one group has more rights than another group based solely on race?  Please we are all ears!!!!  Did you know that there used to be some laws that gave one group of people more rights based solely on their race?  It was called the Jim Crow laws.  And do you know why there are no longer the Jim Crow laws??  BECAUSE THEY WERE DEEMED UNCONSTITUTIONAL.  So enjoy your rights while they last because the time is coming that your extra rights will also be deemed unconstitutional because of discrimination.  So again please tell us why you think discrimination is okay!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Old Raven on October 03, 2010, 12:42:37 AM
Ladies and Gents.....We all must come to terms with what we are dealt. From both sides there are great arguments. So to try and sum up opportunity for all...we all want to hunt. We all want to put food on our tables. And most important of all is we all want these natural resources. The only fault is having to compromise due to our rough history. That goes for Natives and others alike. White man came to a world which was not owned, but utilized. The Natives were here already.....doing what they knew to be necessary. Whites came and plundered and pillaged. And it has not changed. People say equal this and equal that. WELL...tell me your family history and bloodlines and try to argue your point. We choose to live under these circumstances. Natives did not have a choice. They just wanted to cotinue living the way they know how. That has always been the way. Provide for all and survive. Continue to carry tradition folks, it is fully realized by natives and whites and yet some want change. And who wants change....both sides. It is best to come to terms with this. Or we have still proved that race does not change......times do. Lets put all our opinions aside for a sec to take that in................I feel better already. Everybody works for everybody when it comes to these things. Please be considerate of history, and how much we have changed already with regards to the topic. This is my NATIVE PEACE on the matter. Hope we can stop and enjoy what we all have. And by the way...I am native but I do not have the priveleges that come with. I choose to not live on reservation...mostly because I hail from S.E. Alaska where there are nreservations or privelages. It has always been this way. Anyways, I buy my licence here in WA and still fill my freezer.  So, more opportunity, maybe for Rez folks. However...it is the hunter that puts the work in who succeeds. Enjoy the times folks, the world will still change.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on October 03, 2010, 05:56:21 AM
Very nice post old raven. However you still never addressed how and why you think discrimination based on ones race is okay.  Yes I know all about the history and how my ancestors defeated yours. It happens someone has to lose in war. Let me tell you about my people. They also hailed from a tribe. They also relied on hunting to survive. Then another people from another world came and conquered them. And they were treated far worse than thewhites treated your people. My peoples way of life was completely destroyed. Either they assimilated into that culture or they were eradicated. Unlike how the Americans treated your people by allowing them to continue their culture and traditions given a reservation and welfare for life my people were told become one of us or die. My ancestors were members of what the Romans called the "Barbarian Horde".

My people were part of one of the various Germanic tribes who lived much like your people until the Romans took all they had in a far more brutal fashion than your ancestors experienced. So by your way of thinking I should be claiming some reparations and rights com Italy right now be wise of what they did to my ancestors. The point I'm making is WE ALL understand what happened we all know our history but how long is long enough in regards to setting things strait?

One of THE most horrible things America did to your people was creating reservations and giving out reparations. This has created people entirely dependent on the US Government. (Much like our current Presidential is trying to do to all of America)

You talk about change. How can you expect the various tribes to move forward and prosper if they are so focused on the past? All we want are EQUAL RIGHTS when it comes to hunting. Is that wrong. Do you think African-Americans were wrong for wanting to do away with the Jim Crow paws?  Also when we talk about making hunting equal we mean off reservation. On reservation ya'll can ego whatever you want.

We want to fix all unequality as well. Many on here talk about the treaty. That treaty is EXTREMELY dis discriminatory against Natives as well. Did you know the Yakamas and others are not allowed to touch alcohol. The Yakamas harp and harp about their prescious treaty and how it shouldnt be violated and if it is than America cheated the poor Indian again. Yet they drink all the time. They are constantly breaking the treaty, so if they break the treaty shouldnt WE also be allowed to do so? All we really want is equality and fairness for all. It is wrong that people have more rights than I do because of the color of their skin!! Just like its unfair that I can enjoy a beer but a Yakama can't be cause of the color of his skin.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: colockumelk on October 03, 2010, 06:38:26 AM
No to highjack but...  This is what I have to say about all of this.  Talk is cheap.  Its all about actions and getting the ball rolling.  Click here.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,58225.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,58225.0.html)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Roundhead on October 03, 2010, 08:08:37 AM
Ok here goes my big mouth...sure some here might if they could and if i knew my actual heritage I might be indian enough somehwere to have extra rights...I am female enough to join the feminist wagon of deserving special treatment but dont want it I want to be equal not segregated.

The natives choose segregation by continuing to abuse and use special rights and continuing to want to be treated different and not equal the ones who want to be equal leave the rez in my experience and often do not go back.

so fire away I really do not care anymore I work for a tribe and see first hand how being allowed to discriminate works in modern society...on the rez I am not equal not even close....
You are so true. They call it "Tribal Preference".
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on October 10, 2010, 08:31:52 PM
i am native. and i don't abuse *censored*. Yes i hunt. and yes i will shoot what i need to fill my freezer and yes i will shoot bulls and bucks and does and cows. it is my birth right. and yours is to buy a tag and wait in line. you can thank your ancestors for that.they came and killed everything they seen for hides and horns. not for food buy for money and glory.  :'( my land was almost 3/4 of Washington until the whites came and put my
ancestors on 1.3 million acres. I hunt were my birth right is. What belongs to me. you guys hunt on my ceded land. So what.. if a native shoots
a bull.. and.... Some pf you guys are just jealous that you cant... I do have an opened mind. but all you guys do is bash Natives. what you think
talking crap about Natives is going to stop us from hunting. You just make us mad. Just because were different and have something that you
want and you cant have it. You think you need to take it from us. Just like your ancestors.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: grundy53 on October 10, 2010, 08:36:44 PM
i am native. and i don't abuse *censored*. Yes i hunt. and yes i will shoot what i need to fill my freezer and yes i will shoot bulls and bucks and does and cows. it is my birth right. and yours is to buy a tag and wait in line. you can thank your ancestors for that.they came and killed everything they seen for hides and horns. not for food buy for money and glory.  :'( my land was almost 3/4 of Washington until the whites came and put my
ancestors on 1.3 million acres. I hunt were my birth right is. What belongs to me. you guys hunt on my ceded land. So what.. if a native shoots
a bull.. and.... Some pf you guys are just jealous that you cant... I do have an opened mind. but all you guys do is bash Natives. what you think
talking crap about Natives is going to stop us from hunting. You just make us mad. Just because were different and have something that you
want and you cant have it. You think you need to take it from us. Just like your ancestors.

You completely missed the point. We don't want what you guys have we want you guys to be responsible and not destroy our game herds. We practice responsible management and some natives just abuse the hell out of the herds...
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on October 10, 2010, 08:39:56 PM
but you acted like all natives do. it doesnt help bashing them.  trust me. you dont want every one on the rez going of the rez.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on October 10, 2010, 08:40:32 PM
i am native. and i don't abuse *censored*. Yes i hunt. and yes i will shoot what i need to fill my freezer and yes i will shoot bulls and bucks and does and cows. it is my birth right. and yours is to buy a tag and wait in line. you can thank your ancestors for that.they came and killed everything they seen for hides and horns. not for food buy for money and glory.  :'( my land was almost 3/4 of Washington until the whites came and put my
ancestors on 1.3 million acres. I hunt were my birth right is. What belongs to me. you guys hunt on my ceded land. So what.. if a native shoots
a bull.. and.... Some pf you guys are just jealous that you cant... I do have an opened mind. but all you guys do is bash Natives. what you think
talking crap about Natives is going to stop us from hunting. You just make us mad. Just because were different and have something that you
want and you cant have it. You think you need to take it from us. Just like your ancestors.
Guess what you lose we win that is the way of the world,for now you get our hand outs. but keep taking advantage of it and that some day that will change to.It's not your land anymore it is called the United States of America.So come out of your teepee and join the 21 century .Welcome make the most of it okay!!!!!
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on October 10, 2010, 08:45:33 PM
Guess what you lose we win that is the way of the world,for now you get our hand outs. but keep taking advantage of it and that some day that will change to.It's not your land anymore it is called the United States of America.So come out of your teepee and join the 21 century .Welcome make the most of it okay!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
ok. ok it is the USA but its still my ceded land. ;) and i dont take hand outs. i  will come out of my tee pee staight to my ceded land and go shoot some elk.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on October 10, 2010, 08:50:21 PM
 :tree1: :tree1: :tree1: :tree1: :tree1: :tree1: :tree1: :Whatever good luck
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on October 10, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
 :archery_smiley: thanks...
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: fair-chase on October 10, 2010, 08:58:57 PM
ok. ok it is the USA but its still my ceded land. ;) and i dont take hand outs. i  will come out of my tee pee staight to my ceded land and go shoot some elk.

Here lies the whole problem. Its not your land or my land it OUR LAND and OUR RESOURCES. If you want to deplete all game from the reservation - Go for it. When it comes to ceded lands outside the res. Buy a license and follow the rules like everyone else. That way there is some measure of controll over the herds and we can ensure they will be there for future generations. Does anyone really believe that at the rate things are going there will be any game left on tribal lands. Oh wait, there isn't much game left on tribal lands that is why you must venture out to ceded lands to deplete those resources as well.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: monster_bull on October 11, 2010, 02:49:32 PM
there is plenty of game left on the reservation. i do want to help mange the herd. i understand that we do need to do that.
but when i get on here and all you white guys do is talk sh.t. makes me not even give a *censored*.Us and some of you white guys can shoot bulls. so there is plenty to go around. maybe if you guys took a reasonable approach instead of Native
bashing maybe you might get some natives on the wagon with ya. I am for natives not shooting little bulls. I think it is
a waste. I have seen a truck with 2 immature bulls in the back. makes me sick. I am with ya on that. they don't need to do that *censored*. I hunt but i hunt for the old bulls. I am a hunter. i want the biggest and the best just like the rest of you guys. when i need meat i will shoot a spike. Not a true spike. I will shoot a branched spike or a cow. Because i know in some areas white guys can only shoot true spikes. I respect your hunting season. I just might buy a tag next year. I will do that
all for good reason. That doesn't bother me. Like i said i want to help. but you white guys make it so hard to reason with.  But dont ask me to abandon my rights. I will never do that. It is my birth right. But i will work with you guys. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BlackRidge on October 11, 2010, 02:56:26 PM
i am native. and i don't abuse *censored*. Yes i hunt. and yes i will shoot what i need to fill my freezer and yes i will shoot bulls and bucks and does and cows. it is my birth right. and yours is to buy a tag and wait in line. you can thank your ancestors for that.they came and killed everything they seen for hides and horns. not for food buy for money and glory.  :'( my land was almost 3/4 of Washington until the whites came and put my
ancestors on 1.3 million acres. I hunt were my birth right is. What belongs to me. you guys hunt on my ceded land. So what.. if a native shoots
a bull.. and.... Some pf you guys are just jealous that you cant... I do have an opened mind. but all you guys do is bash Natives. what you think
talking crap about Natives is going to stop us from hunting. You just make us mad. Just because were different and have something that you
want and you cant have it. You think you need to take it from us. Just like your ancestors.

Very good points.

That being said

Times change, we all need to adapt.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: ICEMAN on October 11, 2010, 03:26:20 PM
there is plenty of game left on the reservation. i do want to help mange the herd. i understand that we do need to do that.
but when i get on here and all you white guys do is talk sh.t. makes me not even give a *censored*.Us and some of you white guys can shoot bulls. so there is plenty to go around. maybe if you guys took a reasonable approach instead of Native
bashing maybe you might get some natives on the wagon with ya. I am for natives not shooting little bulls. I think it is
a waste. I have seen a truck with 2 immature bulls in the back. makes me sick. I am with ya on that. they don't need to do that *censored*. I hunt but i hunt for the old bulls. I am a hunter. i want the biggest and the best just like the rest of you guys. when i need meat i will shoot a spike. Not a true spike. I will shoot a branched spike or a cow. Because i know in some areas white guys can only shoot true spikes. I respect your hunting season. I just might buy a tag next year. I will do that
all for good reason. That doesn't bother me. Like i said i want to help. but you white guys make it so hard to reason with.  But dont ask me to abandon my rights. I will never do that. It is my birth right. But i will work with you guys. 

Here is the problem; One or two reasonable tribal members who target mature animals, who do not waste wildlife are not going to be winning over the hearts and minds of non-tribal hunters. The blatant disregard for ethical hunting by so many members and lack of prosecution by the tribes has driven a wedge between the two groups in my opinion.

Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: General Disarray on October 11, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
I agree with Monster Bull on this.  The Treaty(no matter how old) says they can do this and good luck challenging the treaty.  Treaty law is the highest law of the land.  We didn't win, they didn't lose.

If you really want to be afraid of what might happen to the state herds, watch out when some of the coastal tribes claim birth right to land east of the cascades!!! I've heard that's not too far off. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: coachcw on October 11, 2010, 04:02:03 PM
the coastal tribes have plenty of elk to shoot over there .
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: General Disarray on October 11, 2010, 04:10:51 PM
the coastal tribes have plenty of elk to shoot over there .

I agree, but I heard they are preparing to make a run at it.  That came from someone employed by the Yakama Tribe.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: coachcw on October 11, 2010, 04:37:16 PM
I've heard that some tribes sell there permits to other tribes for revenue , but not to sure how they work it.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on October 11, 2010, 06:31:21 PM
It is my birth right.

As a US citizen this is what pisses me off, a tribal member is no better or worse than anyone else and does not deserve special treatment.  We all had ancestors with various trials and tribulations but in no way does that mean someone should be able to access more than their fare share of resources.

I'll love the day when these BS off reservation allowances are struck down for the racist practices they are and we all act as equals.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on October 11, 2010, 07:48:44 PM
It is my birth right.

As a US citizen this is what pisses me off, a tribal member is no better or worse than anyone else and does not deserve special treatment.  We all had ancestors with various trials and tribulations but in no way does that mean someone should be able to access more than their fare share of resources.

I'll love the day when these BS off reservation allowances are struck down for the racist practices they are and we all act as equals.

gonna agree here

and its awesome I am now officially a "white guy"  :rolleyes: or do we females not even count  :dunno: just making sure I have a full grasp on whether its racist or sexist treatment I am receiving ;)
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: wildbill100 on October 11, 2010, 08:49:46 PM
what a bunch of little cry babys get out and hunt be thankfull you can quit bitchen about the indians most of all poachin is done by white people in  this state you can see it in our court systems white poachers kill about 10 times the number of elk in this state than indians do
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Antlerking on October 11, 2010, 08:57:39 PM
Wow I beg to differ, not 2 sure I agree with you on that 1. I havnt posted anything on this topic until I read your statment. :o  Ya I guees there are some elk poached here and there, I am not to sure how much, I havnt ever found 1 or seen 1. But the big bulls and quantity of bulls the indians snag up , In my oponion will do more damage than the poachers. But both or not helping the problem...
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on October 11, 2010, 09:06:42 PM
what a bunch of little cry babys get out and hunt be thankfull you can quit bitchen about the indians most of all poachin is done by white people in  this state you can see it in our court systems white poachers kill about 10 times the number of elk in this state than indians do

Are you kidding me its because the tribes have a little card they flash that is the get out of poaching infraction free card..... they dont get tried or convicted because its ok for them to do it....and by them I mean a very small segment of the total population that commits the vast majority of the crimes and then flaunt it...most average people buy their tags hunt during season and use the entire animal this includes natives or whatever name is PC .....
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: grundy53 on October 11, 2010, 09:08:10 PM
what a bunch of little cry babys get out and hunt be thankfull you can quit bitchen about the indians most of all poachin is done by white people in  this state you can see it in our court systems white poachers kill about 10 times the number of elk in this state than indians do

Duh! That's cause the Indian poachers never get sent to court. Genius...
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bobcat on October 11, 2010, 09:08:53 PM
what a bunch of little cry babys get out and hunt be thankfull you can quit bitchen about the indians most of all poachin is done by white people in  this state you can see it in our court systems white poachers kill about 10 times the number of elk in this state than indians do

                           :bs:
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: 1elkhunter on October 11, 2010, 09:31:41 PM
Indian regulations are joke. I have hunted and practiced "fair chase" for twenty years. I have yet to shoot a bull elk, not from lack of effort but I guess lack of spotlight.

My father always said our heritage is "heinz 57", a little bit of everything. Some people say I should claim my Indian heritage (Cherokee) for the awesome hunting rights. I think not.

My rights are as they should be, the privelege to with hunt with ethics and honor.. If the season ends and I end up with nothing, I'm okay with that. I know that I followed the rules and I will take as much pride in that as the monster 6 point Bull I Dream of...
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Dan-o on October 11, 2010, 10:01:48 PM
Well, I have no tribal hunting rights, but wish I did.

On a related note, my inheritance consisted of a beaten up fishing boat worth about a thousand bucks.    I kind of wish my dad had Bill Gates money, but he didn't.   Is that unfair?  Should his kids get something that my dad's kids didn't?   

Is it unfair that some people "inherited" something I didn't?   

I don't know, but I do know that something about just seems wrong.

I've thought about this some over the years and have concluded (as already mentione dpreviously) that perhaps the best way to "break" the hunting inequity is to force the tribes to live with ALL of the treaty regulations.... not jsut the ones they like.   

As I recall, there are some pretty draconian restrictions in some of those treaties....

I'd lvoe to see it fixed, but I;m not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: pods8 on October 12, 2010, 12:23:41 PM
On a related note, my inheritance consisted of a beaten up fishing boat worth about a thousand bucks.    I kind of wish my dad had Bill Gates money, but he didn't.   Is that unfair?  Should his kids get something that my dad's kids didn't?   

Is it unfair that some people "inherited" something I didn't?   

There is a big difference between something technically any parent could pass onto their children by amassing it through life and something that no mater what two non-Indian parents could never ever pass on to their children.  One is equality of opportunity and the other is racism.
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: BlackRidge on October 12, 2010, 12:33:22 PM
what a bunch of little cry babys get out and hunt be thankfull you can quit bitchen about the indians most of all poachin is done by white people in  this state you can see it in our court systems white poachers kill about 10 times the number of elk in this state than indians do

....Natives just call poaching, 'entitled hunting'. What magical docs are you getting you're numbers from?
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: coachcw on October 12, 2010, 05:45:33 PM
If we new the number of elk and deer poached every year I think we would puke. It would stand to reason that the whites by shear numbers would poach more , but how and if we will ever know is beond me .
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: wildbill100 on October 12, 2010, 08:37:40 PM
just a bunch of bitches  :'(  is life as a white hunter just not good please all you little bitches go some where else to hunt you all are sick get out and hunt get a grip on life live it  :'(
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: runamuk on October 12, 2010, 08:51:08 PM
just a bunch of bitches  :'(  is life as a white hunter just not good please all you little bitches go some where else to hunt you all are sick get out and hunt get a grip on life live it  :'(

OMG ....  :yike: he called me a bitch...teacher teacher... :chuckle: :chuckle:

ok sorry I found this rather funny having been called that a few times in my life  :dunno: ..... still trying to figure out how calling names does anything to further his side of the issue  :dunno:

Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Legacy on October 12, 2010, 09:03:06 PM
Looks to me like all tribes don't view their wildlife heritage and resources in a like manner. Tribes in AZ (white mtn, san carlos, hualapai, havasupai, etc), in NM (acoma, zuni), in Utah, etc. are just smarter than some of our own and recognize their wildlife resources (mainly elk, deer, bear, antelope, etc) as something NOT to be killed and taken at will or made available to all tribal members on a kill 'em-at-anytime-anywhere basis. These tribes take a pro-active and long-term view toward wildlife management and limit hunting opportunities for both tribal members and non-tribal members selling that group a limited number of trophy hunts and then they use those funds to help the tribe increase tribal employment and enhance investments and practices that improve their wildlife resources. Sad to see that many tribes and tribal members in Wa and Or tend to see wildlife (game and fish) as an in-your-face opportunity to make whatever points they feel need to be made based on their beliefs that they were disenfranchised on reservations (rightly or wrongly) by anglo Americans in the long ago past. 
Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: Wea300mag on October 12, 2010, 09:07:19 PM
There has not been anything new added to this thread and what is getting posted is  :yike: so it's time to lock it up.

Title: Re: Tribal Regs????
Post by: bobcat on October 12, 2010, 10:02:30 PM
just a bunch of bitches  :'(  is life as a white hunter just not good please all you little bitches go some where else to hunt you all are sick get out and hunt get a grip on life live it  :'(

:bs:    8)
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