Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2010, 06:43:43 PM
This picture was released on Wolfwatch 2:
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This is a picture taken in the Kings Lake, Wa. area. and sent to me. A guy I know was driving up the road to see me, and he saw this "wolf plant" occur. Who is he, and who does he work for?
more info
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I just transfered this picture to my computer after having it on my phone for a year and a half. This was an amazing fluke, I received this. The guy who sent it to me said he just walked up on this guy. The man said he was releasing a wolf, and after he heard that, he sent this to me.
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Kings Lake, Eastern Washington. It's about an hour North of Spokane. Near the border of Idaho. Directly West of Priest Lake.
There is a reason this guy is there with a wolf, and someone is funding the effort.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO THE MAN IS?
DOES ANYONE KNOW THE STORY?
THIS STORY COULD BE SIGNIFICANT!
(some comments recieved)
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These wolves are being chipped instead of collared. That way the Fish and Game can deny the release. I will post this pic on the taxidermy site I am on and see if someone knows him. Sounds to me lik...e another illegal wolf release and this guy should be held accountable for it. To the best of my knowledge Washington has not agreed to any wolf introduction but hey, tahts what they did with us on wolves and grizzlys....they were introduce 3 to 4 years in moderate numbers before any agreement was made.
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I'm looking at that picture and that is a forest service issued shirt he has on. Montana forest service has not been able to give department issued clothes away here for over 10 years. They have to shread unused surplus and damaged clothing so he has to work for the US forest service.
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If you know what region that is in you may find your culprit here. I kind of specialize in tracking down people on the net but this will be a tough one without at least 1 piece of information. If you have anything that may or may not look like a lead, post it and I will see what I can do.
http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/employee_search.shtml (http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/employee_search.shtml)
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I am searching logo images right now trying to match up that logo on his hat. I would like to say, I just can't understand why he is not in full uniform but I think we all know why he is not. Just noticed this logo as someone we would like.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwolf-control.com%2Fimages%2FIWWA_Logo-web.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwolf-control.com%2F&usg=__Jgy67obaWKQfwcQuADAhP2vRQWA%3D&h=420&w=336&sz=24&hl=en&start=340&zoom=1&tbnid=7fmLyEIvyoXvmM%3A&tbnh=125&tbnw=100&prev=%2Fimages%3Fq%3DUSFWS%2Blogos%26start%3D320%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch%3A1&um=1&itbs=1 (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwolf-control.com%2Fimages%2FIWWA_Logo-web.JPG&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwolf-control.com%2F&usg=__Jgy67obaWKQfwcQuADAhP2vRQWA%3D&h=420&w=336&sz=24&hl=en&start=340&zoom=1&tbnid=7fmLyEIvyoXvmM%3A&tbnh=125&tbnw=100&prev=%2Fimages%3Fq%3DUSFWS%2Blogos%26start%3D320%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch%3A1&um=1&itbs=1)
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The boots are interesting as well. They have the look of a well worn pair of boots that are well broke in and have seen some miles, but they in no way match the clean denim jeans. To me that repesents some one who had some driving to do in a cleaner vehicle. It might be a strech but it's what I see. The hat still is puzzling, wish it was just a bit clearer.
Post by: wsucowboy on September 21, 2010, 06:46:08 PM
Post by: quadrafire on September 21, 2010, 06:46:53 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2010, 06:55:48 PM
There is some speculation, could this be someone from wolf santuary or whatever it's called?
Another comment has been that the person is a Forest Service employee, don't know if that is true, but there is a reason this guy is there with a wolf, and someone is funding the effort.
Post by: quadrafire on September 21, 2010, 06:59:20 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on September 21, 2010, 07:01:02 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2010, 07:01:15 PM
Post by: denali on September 21, 2010, 07:05:21 PM
Post by: sisu on September 21, 2010, 07:29:20 PM
Post by: wolfbait on September 21, 2010, 07:39:12 PM
Wolfbait, has this guy been seen in the Methow?
I will check around Dale, I have some friends who work for WDFW I will see what they have to say also.
Post by: Gringo31 on September 21, 2010, 08:49:34 PM
But, I'm not putting the story together very well. Some guy was driving down a road, saw a wolf plant and this guy posed for the picture??? IF that is the case, no vehicle info, logos etc?
Post by: Mookie on September 21, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
Post by: mulehunter on September 21, 2010, 09:12:21 PM
???
Mulehunter
Post by: haugenna on September 21, 2010, 09:21:09 PM
Maybe I can't see it but it should have a collar on.
Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2010, 09:31:42 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on September 21, 2010, 09:38:12 PM
Looks (if the story holds true) that this is a big piece of milfoil in our "lake".
Post by: Special T on September 21, 2010, 09:42:34 PM
Post by: wolfbait on September 21, 2010, 09:52:19 PM
No Collar :dunno:
Maybe I can't see it but it should have a collar on.
I have seen 11 wolves in the Methow now and non of them wore collars. I know a guy that saw a pack up the Twisp River about 7 years ago and on of the wolves had a yellow collar on it. It is much easier for WDFW to claim the wolves migrated to WA if they don't have any collars. ;) :bfg:
Post by: denali on September 21, 2010, 10:05:42 PM
If WDFW can't identify.....shouldn't this guy be in serious trouble? If they were to say they don't know who he is.....you would think THEY would be looking for him as well :dunno:
Looks (if the story holds true) that this is a big piece of milfoil in our "lake".
well said gringo Russian knap weed ,zebra mussel the list goes on we should take invasive species serious, sadly we don't.
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 21, 2010, 10:28:01 PM
Post by: grundy53 on September 21, 2010, 10:43:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 04:34:06 AM
Someone has said that they are micro chipping these wolves now, which might explain no collar. :dunno:
Post by: high country on September 22, 2010, 05:07:17 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 05:32:54 AM
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I'm looking at that picture and that is a forest service issued shirt he has on. Montana forest service has not been able to give department issued clothes away here for over 10 years. They have to shread unused surplus and damaged clothing so he has to work for the US forest service.or it could be a green wool shirt. I think they sell them at Filson.
micro chipping only helps ID it once the carcuss id found......not as advanced as the y2k'ers thought.Right...my dogs are microchipped. Only useful to ID the dog once it's found.
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 05:36:17 AM
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The boots are interesting as well. They have the look of a well worn pair of boots that are well broke in and have seen some miles, but they in no way match the clean denim jeans. To me that repesents some one who had some driving to do in a cleaner vehicle. It might be a strech but it's what I see. The hat still is puzzling, wish it was just a bit clearer.Does nobody with dirty boots own clean jeans? I mean really...does anybody besides me see any of this guys theories here a litte far fetched?
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 07:06:58 AM
QuoteThe boots are interesting as well. They have the look of a well worn pair of boots that are well broke in and have seen some miles, but they in no way match the clean denim jeans. To me that repesents some one who had some driving to do in a cleaner vehicle. It might be a strech but it's what I see. The hat still is puzzling, wish it was just a bit clearer.Does nobody with dirty boots own clean jeans? I mean really...does anybody besides me see any of this guys theories here a litte far fetched?
Jackelope, I think there is a reason this man has a drugged wolf in the woods. I also think people are simply trying to find answers, I see nothing wrong with that.
A lot of guys on this board have given wolfbait a hard time by saying he never shows proof of wolves being released. Wolfbait has said the info will come out. This did not come from wolfbait, but it's possible it may substantiate his claims.
I don't know who the man is or why he has a drugged wolf in the woods, but I think it would be good for people in Washington to find out why, DON'T YOU?
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 07:11:06 AM
If it's not WDFW, who else is releasing or capturing wolves in Wshington?
For this man to have a drugged wolf at that location, he either is releasing it or has captured it.
Is either of these possibilities legal, I think not. ;)
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 07:51:54 AM
QuoteThe boots are interesting as well. They have the look of a well worn pair of boots that are well broke in and have seen some miles, but they in no way match the clean denim jeans. To me that repesents some one who had some driving to do in a cleaner vehicle. It might be a strech but it's what I see. The hat still is puzzling, wish it was just a bit clearer.Does nobody with dirty boots own clean jeans? I mean really...does anybody besides me see any of this guys theories here a litte far fetched?
Jackelope, I think there is a reason this man has a drugged wolf in the woods. I also think people are simply trying to find answers, I see nothing wrong with that.
A lot of guys on this board have given wolfbait a hard time by saying he never shows proof of wolves being released. Wolfbait has said the info will come out. This did not come from wolfbait, but it's possible it may substantiate his claims.
I don't know who the man is or why he has a drugged wolf in the woods, but I think it would be good for people in Washington to find out why, DON'T YOU?
I do...if it's in Washington.
Post by: luvtohnt on September 22, 2010, 07:52:54 AM
Brandon
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 07:57:25 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:09:20 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 08:10:29 AM
1-we don't know if this pic is from Washington. We can take the guys word for it I guess.
2-The one fellow made a point of saying that shirt is a Forest Service shirt...why? It's a green shirt....There's tons of green wool shirts in the world...and there's no such thing as the Montana Forest Service...is there?
3-He makes a point of pointing out the guy has dirty worn boots and clean jeans. Bearpaw...I bet you have more than a couple pairs of boots with lots and lots of miles on them and I would also bet that you have some clean jeans.
I see no point or substance to virtually any of the points the guy makes. It might help to be able to see his hat but I doubt that would substantiate anything. This picture could have been taken anywhere on God's green earth where a wolf got darted to have a collar put on him. That is a fact.
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 08:18:52 AM
:bs: bearpaw- you know better. you know who that man is. expect a call from him shortly.
??
:dunno:
What gives?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:19:29 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:21:39 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:23:24 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:25:12 AM
That man is a good friend of mine and he was involved in the trapping effort in PO county last summer. That animal is the alpha male to the diamond pack. He was trapped, tranqed, and collared that day. The picture was taken that day. This whole thread is BS.
Hardly surprising your involved... now we have our proof!
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:27:13 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 08:28:19 AM
Jack- I don't know why its so hard for you to acknowledge the secret wolf plan that the feds are forcing on us...come on get with the program.
I will work on it. Sorry.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:29:20 AM
Oh and another thing Wacoyote... that aint no 40lbs dog either!It's an (exactly) 108 lb alpha male gray wolf. Genetic origin is Glacier NP.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:30:21 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:30:44 AM
Proof of what? :DOH:That man is a good friend of mine and he was involved in the trapping effort in PO county last summer. That animal is the alpha male to the diamond pack. He was trapped, tranqed, and collared that day. The picture was taken that day. This whole thread is BS.
Hardly surprising your involved... now we have our proof!
Post by: Gobble on September 22, 2010, 08:30:56 AM
That man is a good friend of mine and he was involved in the trapping effort in PO county last summer. That animal is the alpha male to the diamond pack. He was trapped, tranqed, and collared that day. The picture was taken that day. This whole thread is BS.
Hardly surprising your involved... now we have our proof!
:yeah: :tree1:
Post by: GrainfedMuley on September 22, 2010, 08:31:13 AM
micro chipping only helps ID it once the carcuss id found......not as advanced as the y2k'ers thought.
There is a GPS micro chip in EVERY cell phone. They can track your movements without the phone being on. So why can't they have the technology to GPS micro chip Wolves or any animal for that matter? Technology is way more advanced than any Y2k'er can imagine.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:31:34 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:32:31 AM
micro chipping only helps ID it once the carcuss id found......not as advanced as the y2k'ers thought.
There is a GPS micro chip in EVERY cell phone. They can track your movements without the phone being on. So why can't they have the technology to GPS micro chip Wolves or any animal for that matter? Technology is way more advanced than any Y2k'er can imagine.
there in your fillings too. i pulled three teeth last year to get the tracking out of my mouth.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:32:56 AM
Wacoyote you promised us that wolves we had were only 50lbs you lie!!!No, I did not promise that. I have told everyone here the size of both the Diamond pack and Lookout pack captured animals. Whether or not you believe me is not important. Feel free to go back and review earlier posts.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:34:37 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on September 22, 2010, 08:35:02 AM
micro chipping only helps ID it once the carcuss id found......not as advanced as the y2k'ers thought.
There is a GPS micro chip in EVERY cell phone. They can track your movements without the phone being on. So why can't they have the technology to GPS micro chip Wolves or any animal for that matter? Technology is way more advanced than any Y2k'er can imagine.
there in your fillings too. i pulled three teeth last year to get the tracking out of my mouth.
What radio station were you picking up?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:37:05 AM
your a wolf apologist.I've been telling the same story for quite a while. I'm not apologizing for anything, I'm waiting for bearpaw to clear this up.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:38:01 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 08:38:16 AM
Just fox news! :chuckle: :chuckle: had to pull the third because NPR was coming in!! ;)micro chipping only helps ID it once the carcuss id found......not as advanced as the y2k'ers thought.
There is a GPS micro chip in EVERY cell phone. They can track your movements without the phone being on. So why can't they have the technology to GPS micro chip Wolves or any animal for that matter? Technology is way more advanced than any Y2k'er can imagine.
there in your fillings too. i pulled three teeth last year to get the tracking out of my mouth.
What radio station were you picking up?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 08:40:56 AM
Post by: Curly on September 22, 2010, 08:41:18 AM
:bs: bearpaw- you know better. you know who that man is. expect a call from him shortly.
Bearpaw, when you talk to the guy, ask him how he keeps his jeans so clean........ :rolleyes: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Gringo31 on September 22, 2010, 08:59:14 AM
I wasn't aware that wolves were leg trapped for catch and release. Interesting spin on the humane issue of trapping.
Post by: sisu on September 22, 2010, 09:18:30 AM
your a wolf apologist.I've been telling the same story for quite a while. I'm not apologizing for anything, I'm waiting for bearpaw to clear this up.
Bearpaw has nothing to "clear up". All he did was post a picture of a working man with a drugged wolf. He is asking for information as to who, where, when, how many in pack. Another point: you stated that "Bearpaw better expect a phone call from this guy". Is Bearpaw going to be threatened? Is that man or his organization going to put the squeeze on Bearpaw to shut up? Personally I did not like the tone of you post, and if you have a problem with that TS.
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 09:22:54 AM
One thing about it, you put out a request for information with a picture and you are sure to find out the answer.
The man in the picture just called me. Turns out I actually have met the guy before, he's a good guy, but I didn't recognize him in the picture. He confirmed that he is the person in the photo. He explained this is one of the wolves that's part of the "Diamond Pack". He volunteered his time to help show WDFW where these wolves were located so they could be confirmed. He was at the scene when WDFW captured and collared this wolf in Northeast Washington. The photo was taken before the collar was placed on the wolf. He also said this was not at Kings Lake.
I had suspected this might be the same wolf and had posted a message to that effect earlier this morning on Wolfwatch 2. I spend quite a bit of time trying to get the facts out to the general public about wolves. One thing I do not appreciate is whomever said this photo was taken at King Lake when they knew it was not.
This was a legitimate WDFW operation and I will let WolfWatch 2 know that whom ever said it was near King Lake provided false information. The person in the photo had thought that only WDFW personnel even had a copy of this photo, so it's unknown how the photo surfaced. But the fact is, this was a legitimate activity and someone who cropped the photo and concocted the story at King lake, was only trying to stir the proverbial pot.
In the end, false information does not help to accomplish "Responsible Wolf Management", it only hinders the process. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 09:28:13 AM
:bs: bearpaw- you know better. you know who that man is. expect a call from him shortly.
Sisu...he didn't say:
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"Bearpaw better expect a phone call from this guy".
There's no mention made of any threats...alls it says is the guy's gonna call Bearpaw.
Post by: whacker1 on September 22, 2010, 09:29:29 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 09:40:06 AM
So I have as little regard for those who misinformed him, as for the person who concocted the story.
After I explained the situation he calmed down, (as I sad he is a good guy). He did say someone must have cropped the photo to hide the trap.
This man volunteers a lot of his time to help foster more opportunities for sportsfolks, I hope there is no fallout from this on him.
It concerns me that some folks may try to discredit those of us in favor of "Proper Management". At the same time, I am concerned that someone created a false story that they knew wasn't true.
Welcome to the wolf wars....
Post by: Lowedog on September 22, 2010, 09:43:08 AM
Thanks Bearpaw - was the information about the leg hold trap accurate? Thought it was interesting method of trapping a wolf you intend to tranq and collar, but I am by no means even remotely knowledgable about trapping.
I believe they use the same method for bears from what I have read. Can you imagine walking up to check on a bear trap and having a grizzly in it?
Post by: Ray on September 22, 2010, 09:48:36 AM
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 09:53:08 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 10:03:06 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31032758&id=1340530827&op=1&subj=129344620416761&view=all&aid=-1&oid=129344620416761&comments (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31032758&id=1340530827&op=1&subj=129344620416761&view=all&aid=-1&oid=129344620416761&comments)
I would like to know who sent the photo and story!!!
Post by: Ray on September 22, 2010, 10:12:34 AM
:bs: bearpaw- you know better. you know who that man is. expect a call from him shortly.
Bearpaw, when you talk to the guy, ask him how he keeps his jeans so clean........ :rolleyes: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:chuckle:
I got a kick out of that one too.
On the other hand I didn't see any reason to be so openly condescending and after this specific statement it is no suprise to me why some people object to the statements made by WACoyotehunter. It's basically implicitly stating that bearpaw has told us lies and that he perhaps even personally doctored the photo and crafted the story. Now that may not be the intended purpose behind the short statement but it isn't hard for people to come to that conclusion.
Post by: dirty24d on September 22, 2010, 10:15:04 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 10:45:59 AM
I apologize if it seemed like I directed blame towards you for photoshopping the photo or making up the story; my frustration came from the whole series of BS associated with the picture. Since you were not the one telling the story I should not have 'shot the messenger'. I guess I expected you to recognize him from the recent meetings we've attended.
In any case- this is a perfect example of propaganda and BS from all sides. Thanks for sharing.
Post by: Curly on September 22, 2010, 10:48:52 AM
For anyone who does not beleive how this got started.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31032758&id=1340530827&op=1&subj=129344620416761&view=all&aid=-1&oid=129344620416761&comments (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31032758&id=1340530827&op=1&subj=129344620416761&view=all&aid=-1&oid=129344620416761&comments)
I would like to know who sent the photo and story!!!
Maybe some pro wolf folks leaked the photo and false story to discredit people who are looking to get proper wolf management.
It really looks bad when false stories get told like that and like bearpaw already stated, it hurts the cause when false info like this is put out there.
Post by: sisu on September 22, 2010, 11:36:51 AM
Splitting hairs if you ask me...but if it needs to be exact quote then you are right and I still feel the same way.:bs: bearpaw- you know better. you know who that man is. expect a call from him shortly.
Sisu...he didn't say:Quote"Bearpaw better expect a phone call from this guy".
There's no mention made of any threats...alls it says is the guy's gonna call Bearpaw.
In fact if I was raising stock in any state that had a wolf population I'd have a stump rifle. The situation needs to be addressed which we can see it is not. The entire wolf situation is as secret as the state and feds can make it.
I have a deceased friend that was a big fisheries honcho with the Feds. He said this to me once and I was appalled.
If you make a mistake NEVER admit it. Just keep the project going and ignore the mistake.
If that same mentality is still propitiated in the rank and file of biologists then the wolf situation will never get proper management.
I'm done with this thread guys. The entire idea of wildlife management in Washington State is a joke anyway .
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 12:07:13 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 12:15:59 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 12:16:50 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 12:23:48 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 22, 2010, 12:30:41 PM
It was in refence by Wa coyote regaurding the lookout pack... the wolves they capturend and weighed were around 50lbs...Do not put words in my mouth. I gave you the weights of the captured animals accurately. If you take one minute to look those posts up you could have your facts correct. Until then, do not try to discredit my statements with your own lies.
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 12:32:04 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 12:34:33 PM
That man is a good friend of mine and he was involved in the trapping effort in PO county last summer. That animal is the alpha male to the diamond pack. He was trapped, tranqed, and collared that day. The picture was taken that day. This whole thread is BS.
It was in refence by Wa coyote regaurding the lookout pack... the wolves they capturend and weighed were around 50lbs...
pups
I went back in Wacoyotehunter's posts and found this thread.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,7553.msg626392.html#msg626392 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,7553.msg626392.html#msg626392)
In that thread is this post.
Quote
That's not a bad theory Special T. I think that determining the 'local stock' of wolves is important in this situation. The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals. They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side.:dunno:
The animals in PO county are larger (108lb male) the female has not been weighed but looks much smaller. He is from Glacier np and was native to that area (not introduced lines).
Both of the documented packs in WA are small, 5 animals in Diamond and 7 in the lookout pack. They should be raising young now, so we'll see how many of the subadults hang around and how many disperse or die.
I think the wolves we have now are native animals, they are not the McKenzie river valley animals everyone likes to scream about.
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 12:35:26 PM
"Oh and another thing Wacoyote... that aint no 40lbs dog either!"
Wc
"It's an (exactly) 108 lb alpha male gray wolf. Genetic origin is Glacier NP."
I wasn't putting words in you mouth.. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on September 22, 2010, 12:39:04 PM
So no wonder some of us do not trust the system or the wolf plan that's being promoted. :twocents:
Anyway, no worries on my end about the comments, my goal was to get the story, we got the story, and I reported it to everyone. The remaining question in my mind is who doctored the photo and why?
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 12:43:10 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on September 22, 2010, 01:00:04 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 22, 2010, 01:08:32 PM
:dunno:Oh and another thing Wacoyote... that aint no 40lbs dog either!It's an (exactly) 108 lb alpha male gray wolf. Genetic origin is Glacier NP.
Post by: Rudy on September 22, 2010, 01:15:31 PM
The article said it was 105 lbs. :dunno:
:chuckle: :chuckle:
I just want to know if the scale was certified. If this thing is 3 pounds heavier then they were saying.... :bdid: :chuckle:
:yeah: Without a certified scale....were all F'd :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on September 22, 2010, 01:56:09 PM
Post by: wolfbait on September 22, 2010, 05:37:11 PM
That man is a good friend of mine and he was involved in the trapping effort in PO county last summer. That animal is the alpha male to the diamond pack. He was trapped, tranqed, and collared that day. The picture was taken that day. This whole thread is BS.It was in refence by Wa coyote regaurding the lookout pack... the wolves they capturend and weighed were around 50lbs...pups
I went back in Wacoyotehunter's posts and found this thread.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,7553.msg626392.html#msg626392 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,7553.msg626392.html#msg626392)
In that thread is this post.QuoteThat's not a bad theory Special T. I think that determining the 'local stock' of wolves is important in this situation. The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals. They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side.:dunno:
The animals in PO county are larger (108lb male) the female has not been weighed but looks much smaller. He is from Glacier np and was native to that area (not introduced lines).
Both of the documented packs in WA are small, 5 animals in Diamond and 7 in the lookout pack. They should be raising young now, so we'll see how many of the subadults hang around and how many disperse or die.
I think the wolves we have now are native animals, they are not the McKenzie river valley animals everyone likes to scream about.
(The wolves in the methow (the lookout pack anyway) are smaller animals (weighed in at 75 and 65 lbs in the summer) and are coastal BC animals. They are likely the native animal for the north cascades and the west side.)
The WDFW is leading the investigative fieldwork on the now confirmed wild gray wolf pack in the Methow. The agency decided to trap and take DNA samples of the canines heard howling in the Methow Valley and sent the DNA samples to the University of California-Los Angeles Conservation Genetics Resource Center.
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
("Same wolves as Idaho" and guess what? """They are wild wolves, which means they haven't been hauled around in trucks to many times""")
"This is a natural colonization," said Fitkin.""""The wolves are naturally immigrating.""""
Fitkin and his team will continue to monitor the movements of the collared wolves and wolf pups as they move around the summer rendezvous area.
"I've been waiting for this for 18 years," said Fitkin, who said he was very excited by the findings of the investigation. Fitkin has been involved in wolf research in the North Cascades since 1991.
http://myyellowstonewolves.typepad.com/myw/2008/07/gray-wolves-are.html (http://myyellowstonewolves.typepad.com/myw/2008/07/gray-wolves-are.html)
Post by: whacker1 on September 22, 2010, 05:41:10 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 22, 2010, 05:42:28 PM
Post by: steen on September 22, 2010, 05:56:41 PM
Post by: wolfbait on September 22, 2010, 06:17:17 PM
I would assume that if someone is illegally releasing wolves that the game dept. would say go ahead and shoot them. Just waiting for the go ahead.
You betch Steen, NOT. I will say this if anyone here gets in trouble with shooting anything that looks like a wolf, make sure that you get said animal DNA tested, because if it is not 100% wolf you are free to go. These wolves cross breed with coyotes. In other states some guys were shooting coyotes that weighed 60+ pounds. Soon their game department wanted them to bring their coyotes in for DNA testing, as you can guess no one was telling anyone about big coyotes anymore.
Post by: Ray on September 23, 2010, 08:46:06 AM
This is a controversial issue in which noone trusts anyone. Idaho F&G has had to send some people walking that were maniplating the system. It seems we have people within the WDFW Endangered Species program that are working for "Defenders of Wildlife". To top it off, the former director of the USFWS now works for Defenders Of Wildlife. http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/former_USFWS_director_now_defenders_of_wildlife.pdf (http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/former_USFWS_director_now_defenders_of_wildlife.pdf)
So no wonder some of us do not trust the system or the wolf plan that's being promoted. :twocents:
Anyway, no worries on my end about the comments, my goal was to get the story, we got the story, and I reported it to everyone. The remaining question in my mind is who doctored the photo and why?
I don't know about the photo very much more than any other here. However I was on Wolf Watch 2 last evening and I asked some general questions and then offered some humble but accurate feedback about the photo and lack of details surrounding it's source. I casually mentioned that it was genuine human nature to question how it came into his hands and who provided it. I also mentioned that he should expect some criticism when engaging in controversial subjects (none of which I offered on a personal level until now). Then Scott Rockholm decided to unravel. He became extremely defensive and followed up with a series of childish responses. The further the conversation flowed he decided to level personal attacks towards me for apparently no good reason and multiple times he solicited negative responses from me using condescending tone. From what I have gathered by first hand interactions with him I would say that he believes that you basically cannot question anything he produces because he and anything which originates from him is above scrutiny and that if you do so (even in good faith as I did) that you are stepping out of line with his so called ranks. A term which he used repeatedly. His approach and credibility on the wolf issues will always be an issue of skepticism regarding truth and motives from my perspective. After my experiences I reflected on them long enough to conclude that it isn't hard for someone to ponder if he cropped the photo himself. I also have given some thought about why it took so long to get this photo out to others. If I had supposed evidence, then what's the wait for?
When considering the nature of his responses to casual and good natured questions or even comments on the photo, I can only conclude that his methods, motives and any information which originates from him which is controversial or questionable has merit to be suspect. Instead of focusing on facts surrounding the photo and potential leads for information regarding it, which were openly provided here he basically used a bigoted response towards me. That response can be summarized as "the guys on this forum are mostly Pro Wolf and that if you didn't live in Idaho you might as well not have a valid opinion on the matter or even be capable of asking questions". At one point he amplified this bigotry by suggesting if you live in Kirkland you are incapable of understanding or comprehending any matters regarding wolves. His apparent justification for taking these angles from what I can tell was done in order to discredit me or perhaps to even change the conversation away from the source of the photo because perhaps he did not want to answer questions regarding it.
As far as I am concerned his methods are mostly a detriment to his openly stated goals in general.
1) He lost credibility by attacking someone because he could not stand that they would ask questions and insisted such questions were personal attacks against him.
2) He consistently displayed a vengeful and childish style of responses to almost anything. The irrational behavior Mr. Rockholm displayed is a testament to his own character and I did not provoke it in any way shape or form.
3) Once given leads regarding the photograph and the indentity of the person inside of it as well as location he did not seem genuinely interested in following up on them. I can only conclude at this point that such behavior is because he has no interest in the truth but might have been attempting to concoct a false story to arouse support for his agenda.
There is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Rockholm has a vested interest and reasoning for taking strong stances against the wolves. From the responses I have read from him; his goal on the matter is complete eradication. As far as I am concerned that is a Utopian dream world goal which is unachievable. The brazen statements he has made in support of this unrealistic goal have given me further insight into him as a man and has allowed me to draw some of my conclusions on his methods and character. Whether they be right or wrong.. I stand by them. Anyone can view the short conversation on Wolf Watch 2 (http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31032758&fbid=1417187673289&id=1340530827) and make their own judgement calls.
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2010, 09:26:26 AM
Post by: bearmanric on September 23, 2010, 09:35:29 AM
Post by: Ray on September 23, 2010, 09:41:56 AM
Posturing about warrior status and aquiring so called rank among your circle of friends to shield yourself from criticism or even questioning is not a recipe for getting DNA samples or exposing facts. LOL
Post by: whacker1 on September 23, 2010, 10:40:01 AM
Quote
there are probably 9 or so critters in Leclerc creek alone.
I believe that is the Diamond Pack from what I have been told - named after the Diamond Peak, which is in that neighborhood, but WDFW doesn't like to confirm where the name originated as it would give away location. The location is an assumption that was shared with me by some folks that are local to USK, Ione, Cusick area.
Post by: jackelope on September 23, 2010, 11:09:25 AM
Post by: whacker1 on September 23, 2010, 01:21:32 PM
Post by: Special T on September 23, 2010, 01:59:27 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2010, 02:07:06 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 23, 2010, 02:13:20 PM
The diamond pack has been rumored to travel into the Priest Lake area quite often, so maybe they all got shot last year under the Idaho Panhandle's quota...... One can only hope.
I heard that 2 of them got shot by hunters in Idaho last year. I can't remember where I heard that though.
Post by: grundy53 on September 23, 2010, 02:15:12 PM
The diamond pack has been rumored to travel into the Priest Lake area quite often, so maybe they all got shot last year under the Idaho Panhandle's quota...... One can only hope.
I heard that 2 of them got shot by hunters in Idaho last year. I can't remember where I heard that though.
that's great :IBCOOL:
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2010, 02:17:26 PM
Post by: Lowedog on September 23, 2010, 04:40:53 PM
I would be happy to provide DNA samples for the WDFW biologist for the said Lookout wolfpack. That would of course include the 7 that occupy this drainage, the 7 that occupy the drainage to the west of that, the 7 that occupy the drainage to the north, the 7 that occupy the valley to the north of that, and then maybe the ones that decide to hike up to Tonasket for lunch I guess, and then the others to the south of that. Would they like the DNA submitted to include dead weights and how would they like the animals to be submitted. Tails good enough or do I have to pack out the whole animal. You might also be educated enough to know that apparantly wolves have the ability to grow their tails back as I bet I could come up with more than 7 tails. I jus t need the go ahead and I can start proving how many wolves we HAD in washington and how many animals are in the said Lookout pack. Not sure which pack the diamond pack is, but I suspicion there are more than they are counting. There are probably 9 or so critters in Leclerc creek alone. If I could have special permission I'd like to collect a DNA sample there as well. Its no wonder no one believes what they are saying. Since I am going to be busy, can I subcontract out for DNA extraction in the Teanaway and the clockum and the blues as well. Please WDFW, I would love to assist you in this........
Boneaddict, have you reported your information to this guy? Sounds like someone who can help make sure we are getting full disclosure from WDFW.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,56958.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,56958.0.html)
Post by: Gringo31 on September 24, 2010, 07:20:06 AM
I am disappointed to see a somewhat unstable or irrational side of Scott. Your post is spot on!
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2010, 07:37:35 AM
From what I have gathered by first hand interactions with him I would say that he believes that you basically cannot question anything he produces because he and anything which originates from him is above scrutiny and that if you do so (even in good faith as I did) that you are stepping out of line with his so called ranks. A term which he used repeatedly. His approach and credibility on the wolf issues will always be an issue of skepticism regarding truth and motives from my perspective. After my experiences I reflected on them long enough to conclude that it isn't hard for someone to ponder if he cropped the photo himself. I also have given some thought about why it took so long to get this photo out to others. If I had supposed evidence, then what's the wait for?Holy cow...after reading the posts on the FB page, this guy is about as far out there on the wolf issue as I have seen. His "warrior" status adds a whole new level of tin foil hat. I'm not clear where anything like this can actually help the anti wolf crowd. Instead, it's just going to further alienate the agency's from the rest of us asking genuine questions.
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 09:35:40 AM
This is a controversial issue in which noone trusts anyone. Idaho F&G has had to send some people walking that were maniplating the system. It seems we have people within the WDFW Endangered Species program that are working for "Defenders of Wildlife". To top it off, the former director of the USFWS now works for Defenders Of Wildlife. http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/former_USFWS_director_now_defenders_of_wildlife.pdf (http://graywolfnews.com/pdf/former_USFWS_director_now_defenders_of_wildlife.pdf)
So no wonder some of us do not trust the system or the wolf plan that's being promoted. :twocents:
Anyway, no worries on my end about the comments, my goal was to get the story, we got the story, and I reported it to everyone. The remaining question in my mind is who doctored the photo and why?
I don't know about the photo very much more than any other here. However I was on Wolf Watch 2 last evening and I asked some general questions and then offered some humble but accurate feedback about the photo and lack of details surrounding it's source. I casually mentioned that it was genuine human nature to question how it came into his hands and who provided it. I also mentioned that he should expect some criticism when engaging in controversial subjects (none of which I offered on a personal level until now). Then Scott Rockholm decided to unravel. He became extremely defensive and followed up with a series of childish responses. The further the conversation flowed he decided to level personal attacks towards me for apparently no good reason and multiple times he solicited negative responses from me using condescending tone. From what I have gathered by first hand interactions with him I would say that he believes that you basically cannot question anything he produces because he and anything which originates from him is above scrutiny and that if you do so (even in good faith as I did) that you are stepping out of line with his so called ranks. A term which he used repeatedly. His approach and credibility on the wolf issues will always be an issue of skepticism regarding truth and motives from my perspective. After my experiences I reflected on them long enough to conclude that it isn't hard for someone to ponder if he cropped the photo himself. I also have given some thought about why it took so long to get this photo out to others. If I had supposed evidence, then what's the wait for?
When considering the nature of his responses to casual and good natured questions or even comments on the photo, I can only conclude that his methods, motives and any information which originates from him which is controversial or questionable has merit to be suspect. Instead of focusing on facts surrounding the photo and potential leads for information regarding it, which were openly provided here he basically used a bigoted response towards me. That response can be summarized as "the guys on this forum are mostly Pro Wolf and that if you didn't live in Idaho you might as well not have a valid opinion on the matter or even be capable of asking questions". At one point he amplified this bigotry by suggesting if you live in Kirkland you are incapable of understanding or comprehending any matters regarding wolves. His apparent justification for taking these angles from what I can tell was done in order to discredit me or perhaps to even change the conversation away from the source of the photo because perhaps he did not want to answer questions regarding it.
As far as I am concerned his methods are mostly a detriment to his openly stated goals in general.
1) He lost credibility by attacking someone because he could not stand that they would ask questions and insisted such questions were personal attacks against him.
2) He consistently displayed a vengeful and childish style of responses to almost anything. The irrational behavior Mr. Rockholm displayed is a testament to his own character and I did not provoke it in any way shape or form.
3) Once given leads regarding the photograph and the indentity of the person inside of it as well as location he did not seem genuinely interested in following up on them. I can only conclude at this point that such behavior is because he has no interest in the truth but might have been attempting to concoct a false story to arouse support for his agenda.
There is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Rockholm has a vested interest and reasoning for taking strong stances against the wolves. From the responses I have read from him; his goal on the matter is complete eradication. As far as I am concerned that is a Utopian dream world goal which is unachievable. The brazen statements he has made in support of this unrealistic goal have given me further insight into him as a man and has allowed me to draw some of my conclusions on his methods and character. Whether they be right or wrong.. I stand by them. Anyone can view the short conversation on Wolf Watch 2 (http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=31032758&fbid=1417187673289&id=1340530827) and make their own judgement calls.
In my opinion carrying your little spat over to W-H was about the most chicken *censored* thing I have seen so far. You could have dropped out at any time, but you stayed right in there and pushed the argument. This wolf issue is bigger than your little spat and yet you carry it around justifying your side. What the hell are you doing? You don't even know the truth of the picture yet, and we don't either. Do you know how much time all of us invest in research? In checking wolf sightings, talking to people all over WA. Checking reports on wolf releases? We have to have all true facts Ray we can't lie like WDFW and DoW? Up until your little spat Scott was a great guy, now you are throwing him to the wolves, Whats that say about you Ray? People who have spent many years fighting to get wolf control don't need people like you helping us Ray, we have enough lying *censored*heels to deal with at WDFW and IDFG.. I hope to hell you feel all warm and fuzzy right now with the crap you just spewed Are you Proud of Yourself? Do you feel that you have won that little spat? Do you feel all better now?
How many times do those of us who are fighting against the wolves get attacked? Have you ever seen that Ray? Do you think after awhile we get defensive? Did you know the full story on the picture Ray? Yet now you have become the judge and jury. GROW UP RAY you aren't in the second grade anymore!
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 09:44:25 AM
If you want to follow some jerk around who cares not about his methods and who he insults around that is your place. Carrying on over here. There's good reasoning for that. I'm pretty sure that Scott declared me as unwanted. Why carry on any conversation with someone else who has declared you unwanted outcast? As far as I am concerned his methods are completely unsound. I was very willing to act like an adult and have the entire time. I think your hero Scott has simply diminished his credibilty and if those are going to be his methods for getting his job done, he's going to alienate a lot more people and ruin his cause.
When you think you have to have ranks and that you are untouchable on the level he does then the situation is ripe for problems. He entered into his argument upon his terms and on his turf and leveled insults against someone he didn't even know. Instead of acting like an out of control hothead he should have used reasoning. He should not be alienating someone based upon his own irrational behavior and drawing conclusions based upon his own emotions.
If that is the best he has then I don't think he is someone worth following.
Furthermore I think that you are acting in a childish manner right here. You have not used any logical reason to rebutt any of my points on any matter other than you like Scott and his content regarding wolves. None of which really has much to do with my interactions with him. Go blindly follow your heros around. Let this be a lesson to your circle of friends though. I don't think my experience and summary is characterized as anything but rational.
Post by: whacker1 on September 24, 2010, 09:50:49 AM
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 09:56:17 AM
Post by: Special T on September 24, 2010, 10:12:36 AM
I think Scott could and should do better... But I'm not gona dedicate the time and $$ he has on the subject so i'll take him as he is.....
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 10:18:48 AM
I believe I have been the brunt of enough of his personal jabs. Many people I know would have never been able to keep their cool under his barrage of crap. I think it's a testament to the honest summary I have provided.
Where you have your wires crossed Ray is this fight isn't about one or two people, this is every state that has wolves fighting, looking for answers. If you actually knew Scott you would understand that. But you don't know him do you? Yet you wrote what you did for what reason? Scott has seen what has happened, he knows what is going to happen to WA, he is helping every state. What have you done RAY? What has anyone DONE caompared to Rockholm? He took the fight on because WHY? Did you know that the trapper that brought the first wolves into the YNP and Idaho was at the picture taking also? There are many things we don't know yet, this is not over. Out of this little spat you concocked what RAy?
(I believe I have been the brunt of enough of his personal jabs. Many people I know would have never been able to keep their cool under his barrage of crap)
You got to be kidding me, *censored* if you can't keep your cool under that little bit you better go find some shade, and for sure you need to stay out of any any wolf arguments with the pro-wolf side. because they will eat you alive in a pair of seconds. I think you owe Scott an apology RAY. Shake hands and quit playing this game that the pro-wolf side just loves to see. or you can bull-up and continue on with this. It don't hurt us near as much as it does you.
Post by: jackelope on September 24, 2010, 10:22:30 AM
It doesn't take too much to see that.
:dunno:
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 10:30:17 AM
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 10:30:21 AM
Post by: tlbradford on September 24, 2010, 10:30:29 AM
Wacoyotehunter, is this the same trapper? How many are being employed at this time by the various government agencies? Where are they taking these wolves?
Thanks in advance.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2010, 10:37:57 AM
BTW- the reason Carter Neimeyer was at the "photo location" was because he was the trapper on contract to help locate the diamond pack after howling verification of the den site or rendezvous site was obtained. He was there because he's one of the best in the field and the state needed someone RI(GHT THEN...he was available to help.
Post by: Gringo31 on September 24, 2010, 10:41:56 AM
Quote
Where you have your wires crossed Ray is this fight isn't about one or two people, this is every state that has wolves fighting, looking for answers.
Wolfbait,
I agree with your above statement in except for the part that Ray has his wires crossed. The fight ISN'T about one or two people, we need to stick together on these things. Scott is the one that owes an apology. He is too quick to disregard someone as an enemy when he needs all the good people he can get. Scott made the statement that most of the hunt-wa guys are wolf lovers. I believe he has spent a long enough fighting that he has lost focus on who he needs to be aiming at.
We see this all the time in the hunting networks. Archers against rifle guys, high fence vs free range, governors tag vs special draw permits and the list goes on and on. Like Bearpaw has said several times, we need to stick together and only address issues that are illegal. Self division will only hurt the side that is divided....meaning us.
That photo seems to have some "issues' with it and there were some valid questions that came from it. I ask that we all keep our cools (as Ray has done), we try not to get so emotional and clear our heads on who and what is truly worth fighting for.
Regards,
Gringo
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on September 24, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
People like Scott Rockholm are making things worse with their pissing matches with the anti’s it just adds fuel to the fire. The anti hunting groups have millions and millions of dollars behind them and we don’t. Scott just fuels their fire and makes them work that much harder to fight to save the wolves. Scott Rockholm should know who this guy is and has definitely lost face with me.
Sure we all know there are 10 times the wolves then what are documented, the problem with that is judges only can base their judgments on facts and that means what can be proven on paper through solid science not what people estimate. The best thing for people to do is go out and document your sighting. Take pictures of wolves, and their tracks if you think you have fur from one take it give to fish and game help them prove there are more wolves. On a legal standpoint the judge has to go with the facts. Until us as hunters make every effort to prove exactly how many wolves there are and quit pointing finger at fish and wildlife and thinking up these stupid conspiracy theories. Instead work with them to show them the packs you have located and give them every bit of info you can.
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 10:57:03 AM
wolfbait I'll rest and let the public be the judge of your remarks and Scott's actions. It would not suprise me that some people will continue to stand behind him. I respect much of his work but if he believes that he is above the clouds then that will make his fall much farther when he makes mistakes. I provided insight into this whole wolf issue as a standard issue, common man so that others who decide to follow can get an understanding about the methods and personalities behind the so called mission.
You just do that RAY. I know Scott personally and your ideas of him are wrong, your judgements of him are wrong. You still don't get it do you, no one stands behind or follows anyone we all work together. This isn't about a power trip for anyone. The wolves are killing our wildlife, livestock, ruining hunting and small communtiy economies. Tell me Ray what are my personalities I would really like to compare them to what my wife says. What about my methods RAY, you think I can improve some way? Maybe wishy washy and ride both sides of the fence? Or when things turn to *censored* should I bail out and try to lay the blame on someone else? Well that isn't for me RAY. I see only one side to these wolves and that would be they don't belong in the lower 48. Those who brought them down knew this, thats why they did it, they knew what these wolves would do. Why do you think it has been so crooked from the very beginning? Take a drive over into Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana where they have had to deal with this wolf, and then come back and tell me how much you know about personalities.
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 11:07:45 AM
I will not name him but I have been a personnel friend of the man in the photo for over 15 years and he is a sportsman and not an Anti hunting tree lover. In fact he killed a wolf in Idaho last year. He is doing everything he can to help the WDF&G to locate and track the movement of wolves in Pend Oreille County, and has been for many years. He is an upstanding sportsman who has done more for wildlife in Washington than most people will ever know. This whole conspiracy theory crap is just that CRAP. IDF&G has documented wolves traveling over a 6 state area. The Wolves in Washington are just like the Moose. This state had almost no Moose before the 1970’s. Slowly the Moose population grew to what is now. The same thing is happening with the wolves. No one planted them! The wolves came here naturally. IDF&Gs biologist have documented wolves traveling over 200+ miles. Don’t get me wrong here wolves need to be controlled or the elk and deer populations will continue to be severely affected.
People like Scott Rockholm are making things worse with their pissing matches with the anti’s it just adds fuel to the fire. The anti hunting groups have millions and millions of dollars behind them and we don’t. Scott just fuels their fire and makes them work that much harder to fight to save the wolves. Scott Rockholm should know who this guy is and has definitely lost face with me.
Sure we all know there are 10 times the wolves then what are documented, the problem with that is judges only can base their judgments on facts and that means what can be proven on paper through solid science not what people estimate. The best thing for people to do is go out and document your sighting. Take pictures of wolves, and their tracks if you think you have fur from one take it give to fish and game help them prove there are more wolves. On a legal standpoint the judge has to go with the facts. Until us as hunters make every effort to prove exactly how many wolves there are and quit pointing finger at fish and wildlife and thinking up these stupid conspiracy theories. Instead work with them to show them the packs you have located and give them every bit of info you can.
I won't spend to much time on you. #1 I know for a fact that WDFW have released several wolves in WA. #2 People like Scott Raockholm bring out the truth about wolves and the crooks in state management. #3 WDFW could care less about the wolf sightings that are turned in unless it is some place they haven't already planted wolves #4 WDFW have been caught in so many lies already any crediblity they might have had is shot stait to hell. I think thats about enough for right now. Cheers
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2010, 11:22:45 AM
Are you serious about taking this to court with WDFW?
Post by: Gringo31 on September 24, 2010, 11:28:28 AM
I don't think this is as much about the wolf issues as the personal one. Scott wasn't courteous by any means. He didn't address any questions that Ray had asked. He attacked him as well as called most from this site a bunch of wolf lovers.
I don't believe this site is a bunch of wolf lovers. I think it as more "pro-wolf management" than just about any other site in the state. Scott is the one that judged US. I'm having a hard time understanding how any rational person can't see that Scott "should" have handled himself a bit differently. Now, I realize everyone has a bad day, but you won't get a lot of support when you attack those that are willing or able to even help.
Just my thoughts. I think we need to work to make this LESS personal. We need to be focused on the issue not the person. You believe Ray made it about Scott when Scott made it about Ray.....and, I'd have to say I believe Scott threw the first stone.
Can we get back to focusing on the true wolf issue? There are enough of us in the field where we can work together without personal attacks.
Post by: grundy53 on September 24, 2010, 11:35:50 AM
Wolfbait,
I don't think this is as much about the wolf issues as the personal one. Scott wasn't courteous by any means. He didn't address any questions that Ray had asked. He attacked him as well as called most from this site a bunch of wolf lovers.
I don't believe this site is a bunch of wolf lovers. I think it as more "pro-wolf management" than just about any other site in the state. Scott is the one that judged US. I'm having a hard time understanding how any rational person can't see that Scott "should" have handled himself a bit differently. Now, I realize everyone has a bad day, but you won't get a lot of support when you attack those that are willing or able to even help.
Just my thoughts. I think we need to work to make this LESS personal. We need to be focused on the issue not the person. You believe Ray made it about Scott when Scott made it about Ray.....and, I'd have to say I believe Scott threw the first stone.
Can we get back to focusing on the true wolf issue? There are enough of us in the field where we can work together without personal attacks.
i agree with your statement ..... but there are a few wolf lovers on here :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2010, 11:43:11 AM
No Lowe I haven't. I don't need the entire world knowing where I am hunting. If I thought it was worth it, I would, but I am so sick of the snowjobs. There is no frickin way in hell there are the number of wolves they are claiming in the Valley. Everytime someone reports them (trustworthy reports) they chaulk it up as the lookout pack travelling. Its crap. I can watch the lookout pack, drive 30 miles north to shed hunt and find wolves. DAMN they are quick. If the departments want us to be honest with them, then they should be honest with us. PERIOD
Post by: Special T on September 24, 2010, 12:07:18 PM
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 12:11:12 PM
Post by: wolfbait on September 24, 2010, 12:29:45 PM
wolfbait, you have continued nearly along the same lines which your friend Scott did. Your approach is to attack someone's credibility and standing for asking casual questions or offering honest feedback. As far as I am concerned you are digging your cause a larger hole as you have continued to speak on this topic here today.
I'm done talking about this RAY. In my opinion you should have wrote Scott a letter and handled it that way not bring it to a site where you could thrash it. I have a problem, I take to the person or I ask someone I trust what they think. You can spin this anyway you want to. I think it has been well thrashed now don't you????
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
Post by: rasbo on September 24, 2010, 01:51:26 PM
If you have no problem with it, means you are not living the Hell we are. You have made an asinine statement.
wolfbait...Is this really how he could expect to gain my support or respect for him??
Post by: Rockholm66 on September 24, 2010, 01:59:08 PM
I am one of the twenty members of Washington for Wildlife. I thought it had leadership that was interested in protecting our hunting heritage. The people who know me, and have worked with me will absolutely justify my work. I guarantee Ray, you will never drive your membership up after your motives are exposed. I will continue working in Idaho, and Montana, and you and Dale can continue to pander to the WDFG. I will not renew my membership, I can tell you that for sure.
To address your continued sniping, all I can say is good luck with that ray. I guarantee when I make my new video, the truth will expose all of this.
Thanks for the heads up wolf bait. I will continue lending a hand to your efforts to stop this horrific wolf introduction.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2010, 02:34:22 PM
Wolves are here to stay. As far as I'm concerned, the only question is ' how can/should we manage them along with the rest of our wildlife?' Having no wolves will not be an option.
Ray is only working to bolster his image as a instrument in this battle. I guarantee Ray, you will never drive your membership up after your motives are exposed. I will continue working in Idaho, and Montana, and you and Dale can continue to pander to the WDFG. I will not renew my membership, I can tell you that for sure.
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2010, 02:45:03 PM
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Wolves are here to stay. As far as I'm concerned, the only question is ' how can/should we manage them along with the rest of our wildlife?' Having no wolves will not be an option.
Thats about as true a statement as you can get.
Rock, I know you don't know me from Adam, but you need to mellow. Whether you care or not what I think, you are alienating the folks that are here to help you. If thats not the right words then I'd have to say you are pissing in your own bowl of cheerios. In a position that you possess, you need to be able to articulate your responses to ANY question without coming back...or just losing your cool.
Post by: Ray on September 24, 2010, 03:08:17 PM
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Ray is only working to bolster his image as a instrument in this battle. Insignificant as it may be, the man had no place to call question to me. In fact, I put the question out there. This man is driven by his own personal motives, and nothing more.
I am not an instrument in the supposed battles. I certainly have question to call to anyone I please. If you present a photo without details it is a god given right for me to be concerned, inquisitive or even amused by it's origin or any other matter which I feel is personally significant.
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I am one of the twenty members of Washington for Wildlife. I thought it had leadership that was interested in protecting our hunting heritage. The people who know me, and have worked with me will absolutely justify my work. I guarantee Ray, you will never drive your membership up after your motives are exposed. I will continue working in Idaho, and Montana, and you and Dale can continue to pander to the WDFG. I will not renew my membership, I can tell you that for sure.
Drive my membership of what? What membership do I own which I am attempting at bolserting numbers for? The fact that I have crafted and spent thousands of hours of my personal life dedicated to create and host a forum where hunters can share experiences is a testament to my devotion for hunting heritage. It is tangible and credible whether or not you agree with it. Obviously you do not recognize it as factual because you are only trying to cover up or divert attention away from yourself because of the irrational behavior and hateful remarks you have made towards me.
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To address your continued sniping, all I can say is good luck with that ray. I guarantee when I make my new video, the truth will expose all of this.
Scott, I don't care what videos you make. You can call me out by name inside your videos but in the end it will amount to nothingness to me. I need not a video to represent my thoughts. They are right here in words just as well.