Post by: InsideWDFW on October 19, 2010, 10:20:56 PM
Some of you may remember me from a few years ago. I answered a few questions on the inner workings of WDFW, especially regarding the drawing system. After some pressure from higher-ups I stopped posting for fear of losing my job. Now that I'm no longer working for WDFW, I don't have to worry anymore. I forgot about this place until I found a post through Google. I figure while I'm unemployed, I'd kill time by hanging around here answering any questions I can. While I'm not a big fan of the people I worked with, I did love my job. Though I will only answer questions that could be answered if you asked WDFW directly or filled a public disclosure request. I'm sure I'm not going to make any friends in the Agency, and don't want to hang-out in court.
I started with the Agency in July 2007 working in the WDFW Licensing unit stuffing internet sold licenses and mailing them. I worked my up to tech support for dealers and working with the technical group that handles the WILD system and the actual draw system. I then moved to the Wildlife Program and worked as one of two Customer Service Specialists.
While a CSS doesn't sound like an important job, I had to know the answers to questions I got while answering (360) 902-2515, if you e-mailed the Wildlife Program (wildthing@dfw.wa.gov) you received a response from me. What you guys will probably be most interested in was that I was the coordinator for the permits/processing of Game Farms, Migratory Bird permits, Wildlife publications, and Special Hunt drawings.
For Special hunt drawings I was in charge of pulling the raw drawing data from the WILD system, parsing the data (it came in a text file with each entry looking like "604605406546540smith bob a 8464 1 0 0 0"), working with IT to query the WILD system for addresses and what not, then getting the data to the web team for posting (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/) and https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/wa/specialhuntlookup (https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/wa/specialhuntlookup)) and the Licensing unit for permit printing. (And the mis-printed permits from 2009 was not my fault, Dept. Of Printing dropped the ball on that one). I also created the spreadsheets that were uploaded to the WILD system to populate hunt choices when you go to enter your application.
So yea, I'll be hanging around answering any questions I can. I was put on admin leave in Decemember 2009 and finally fired in May 2010, so some things may have changed.
Mike
Post by: bobcat on October 19, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
Post by: bow4elk on October 19, 2010, 10:38:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 19, 2010, 10:42:58 PM
Post by: sisu on October 19, 2010, 10:45:56 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 19, 2010, 10:46:57 PM
Fired! Hell, the governor, her staff and all the top admin. at WDFW should be canned not the troops running the show.
:yeah:
Post by: InsideWDFW on October 19, 2010, 10:47:43 PM
Mike, are you the guy mentioned on the news last night? Just curious.
I'm assuming you are talking about this http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html)? Nope.
Basically I made the mistake a messing around with my boss. She eventually got mad and had friends up on high. So I got the crap audited out of me, and they found that I was using Firefox, had used the WILD system to look up an address of the a coworker for Christmas cards, and had looked a sub-shop's webpage to see what I was going to have for dinner. Life lesson # 3454: Do not date co-workers, especially if she signs your evaluation.
Post by: Curly on October 20, 2010, 07:20:23 AM
So yea, I'll be hanging around answering any questions I can.
So, is Dave Ware really as big of a *censored* as he appears to be?
Did WDFW really think the new permit draw system was a good idea? Or did they only come up with all the new category system for the sole purpose of generating more revenue?
When did WDFW start working on the new category system, and did they try to keep it a secret from the public until it was basically too late to stop the system from being implemented?
There. Those are a few of the questions that have been on my mind for almost a year now. You may not be able to answer any of those questions, but if you can.......I'm all ears.
Post by: robodad on October 20, 2010, 07:28:14 AM
Post by: runamuk on October 20, 2010, 07:28:32 AM
Mike, are you the guy mentioned on the news last night? Just curious.
I'm assuming you are talking about this http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html)? Nope.
Basically I made the mistake a messing around with my boss. She eventually got mad and had friends up on high. So I got the crap audited out of me, and they found that I was using Firefox, had used the WILD system to look up an address of the a coworker for Christmas cards, and had looked a sub-shop's webpage to see what I was going to have for dinner. Life lesson # 3454: Do not date co-workers, especially if she signs your evaluation.
this makes me laugh but very good advice :chuckle:
I am glad you are back I rather liked having someone who actually was in wdfw answering questions. I am sorry you lost your job....but nice to have you back here.
Post by: Curly on October 20, 2010, 07:45:25 AM
What percentage of WDFW employees would you estimate are anti-hunters?
I can't make any sense out of WDFW protecting cougars like they seem to be doing. Is there some sort of cougar lover working there that lobbies for the crazy rules that have been set lately regarding cougars?
Post by: InsideWDFW on October 20, 2010, 11:33:56 AM
So, is Dave Ware really as big of a *censored* as he appears to be?
Did WDFW really think the new permit draw system was a good idea? Or did they only come up with all the new category system for the sole purpose of generating more revenue?
When did WDFW start working on the new category system, and did they try to keep it a secret from the public until it was basically too late to stop the system from being implemented?
On a personal level, Dave's a pretty good guy. At his level professionally he has to be a politician, so he get wishy-washy sometimes.
The new permit system was just getting put together when I was put on admin leave so I don't know too much about it. I do know the rumblings of something like it began in the last season setting process. I know they were aware that the first couple of years were going to be weird due the points that had been built up, but were confident that it would calm down eventually. While increased revenue was discussed (the agency is scrambling for more money), the majority of the talk that I heard focused around hunter's comments/concerns with the way the system was.
Quote
What percentage of WDFW employees would you estimate are anti-hunters?
I can't make any sense out of WDFW protecting cougars like they seem to be doing. Is there some sort of cougar lover working there that lobbies for the crazy rules that have been set lately regarding cougars?
Believe it or not I was the odd duck out and was one of the few who didn't hunt (not anti-hunting, just never had the chance). The guys who are directly involved with land use and game management (people like Dave Ware, Jerry Nelson, ect.) are just about as hardcore about hunting as you are. WDFW is one of those places where it's fairly easy to take a vacation during the summer, but almost impossible to get time off in the fall because everyone is out in the field.
I'm not sure what you are talking about as far as cougars (I've been out of the loop for nearly a year). I will say (in my personal opinion) that the cougar manager is an ok biologist, but a lousy manager - a sentiment that is shared by a lot of people in the agency. On the flip side, the unofficial mission statement of the agency was basically "Managing Washington's Wildlife so your great, great, great, grandson has something to tag/hook."
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 20, 2010, 12:18:36 PM
Post by: Humptulips on October 20, 2010, 12:24:34 PM
Post by: InsideWDFW on October 20, 2010, 01:55:49 PM
How long is the contract for with the company that does the drawings? I heard they get a certain percentage of each License, tag, punch card, etc sold. Is there any truth to this?
I'm not 100% sure when the contract is up, but I believe in the next year or two. The thing is there really are no other companies that could do it, so I wouldn't be surprised if they stick with Outdoors Central/Active Outdoors. Especially now that the system has stabilized. There is a fee on every license that goes into an account that then is paid to OC/AO. The fun part about it is that if they don't do what they are supposed to do, then the agency doesn't pay them the fees. This happened a lot in the beginning.
Quote
There are certain people in the department that never return calls or answer e-mails. I won't name names. Is there any system within the department for tracking who is actually doing their job regarding customer relations and is there any repercussions if they are not?
I'll name names, Dave Ware and Donny Martorello. I'll start with the answer you'll like.
Like I said earlier, Donny is a biologist, not a manager. He's in the office maybe 2 days out five. You're not alone if you are frustrated with not being able to get a hold of Donny, so is the staff. The 2009 spring bear drawing/packets almost didn't happen on time because he went awhol. I had my brother on standby to be the citizen witness for the drawing because Donny didn't get one. I finally sent out the permit packets without his approval because he didn't answer a bunch of e-mails, phone calls, or headups from his boss (Dave Ware) and mine. Don't even get me started on Trapper reports.
Dave Ware like I said is basically a politician. Three quarters of his day is spent in meetings. Right about now I bet he's getting 20 to 30 calls a day and 30-40 e-mails from hunters. He just doesn't have time to answer them all. And 99% of the calls/e-mails he gets were answered farther down the food chain. There were quite a few times I'd give an answer to a caller, they wouldn't like it and ask to speak to Dave. Dave would get the message come back to me, and have me respond to the caller and give the exact same answer I gave the caller in the first place.
Dave is really good about sitting down with the front-line staff (360-902-2515 and Wildthing@dfw.wa.gov) and going over questions we got. A majority of the calls/e-mails I received I had already had an answer from Dave on. A good example is point refunds. There's a pretty cut and dry policy on when I could refund points. If I said I'm sorry, going over my head wouldn't change it. If it was something questionable, I'd tell the caller I call them back, walk over to Dave's office and ask him face to face. I'm sure that his communication with the front desk staff has improved since then seeing how the person who basically replaced me on the phones/e-mails is his wife.
When you get go above the front-line staff, there really is no tracking and what not. Nine times out of ten the answer you got by calling 360-902-2515 is the answer you'd get if you went up the food chain.
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 20, 2010, 02:16:59 PM
Good stuff, thanks.
And FWIW, sounds more like Ware's old lady needed a job and you got ran up the meat pole for a little internet surfing on State time. Lame!!!
And there's nothing wrong with dipping the pen in company ink. It's worked for me in the past. :chuckle:
Post by: Kain on October 20, 2010, 06:00:53 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,58219.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,58219.0.html)
These rules are so bad that nearly everyone has a different idea on what is legal and when.
Post by: Fireant11 on October 22, 2010, 09:59:33 PM
I have an issue where I was going to hunt Western rifle for elk. The person I was going with got hurt in an accident and can't hunt. The WDFW said I could swap tags provided the season I had a tag for hadn't already started (which Western rifle elk hasn't).
Now, when I go to Dick's Sporting Goods today and the clerk calls WDFW to exchange my tag, they say I can't because I put in for a special permit under my Western tag. I was not selected for a special permit, but somehow this locks me in to my current tag.
Why should this prevent me from exchanging tags?!!! I'm not hunting two seasons or owning two tags, and I'm not taking away a special permit from someone since I wasn't drawn? This makes not sense!!
While I'm at it, I'd like to see the state do away with purchasing a tag prior to putting in for special permits! Let people try for what they want, and if they don't get drawn, then let them buy a tag they will use. There's no harm with this, as no matter what a person puts in for, the state has limited numbers for each draw. Even if everyone put in for the same special permit, so what?!! Only a certain number of tags will be issued. All that will happen is it would increase the odds of getting drawn.
Post by: stumprat on October 23, 2010, 06:53:21 AM
I'll name names, Dave Ware and Donny Martorello. I'll start with the answer you'll like.
Like I said earlier, Donny is a biologist, not a manager. He's in the office maybe 2 days out five. You're not alone if you are frustrated with not being able to get a hold of Donny, so is the staff. The 2009 spring bear drawing/packets almost didn't happen on time because he went awhol. I had my brother on standby to be the citizen witness for the drawing because Donny didn't get one. I finally sent out the permit packets without his approval because he didn't answer a bunch of e-mails, phone calls, or headups from his boss (Dave Ware) and mine. Don't even get me started on Trapper reports.
Dave Ware like I said is basically a politician. Three quarters of his day is spent in meetings. Right about now I bet he's getting 20 to 30 calls a day and 30-40 e-mails from hunters. He just doesn't have time to answer them all. And 99% of the calls/e-mails he gets were answered farther down the food chain. There were quite a few times I'd give an answer to a caller, they wouldn't like it and ask to speak to Dave. Dave would get the message come back to me, and have me respond to the caller and give the exact same answer I gave the caller in the first place.
Dave is really good about sitting down with the front-line staff (360-902-2515 and Wildthing@dfw.wa.gov) and going over questions we got. A majority of the calls/e-mails I received I had already had an answer from Dave on. A good example is point refunds. There's a pretty cut and dry policy on when I could refund points. If I said I'm sorry, going over my head wouldn't change it. If it was something questionable, I'd tell the caller I call them back, walk over to Dave's office and ask him face to face. I'm sure that his communication with the front desk staff has improved since then seeing how the person who basically replaced me on the phones/e-mails is his wife.
When you get go above the front-line staff, there really is no tracking and what not. Nine times out of ten the answer you got by calling 360-902-2515 is the answer you'd get if you went up the food chain.
When I have contacted the dept. Dave has always seemed to be as forthright as possible. Donny on the other hand makes no sense and gives alot of double talk. IF YOU CAN EVER REACH HIM AS YOU STATED. Does he ever go through a personal audit??
Post by: Curly on October 23, 2010, 07:56:45 AM
Mike, I left you a PM, but maybe someone else on this forum can roll in with an answer.
I have an issue where I was going to hunt Western rifle for elk. The person I was going with got hurt in an accident and can't hunt. The WDFW said I could swap tags provided the season I had a tag for hadn't already started (which Western rifle elk hasn't).
Now, when I go to Dick's Sporting Goods today and the clerk calls WDFW to exchange my tag, they say I can't because I put in for a special permit under my Western tag. I was not selected for a special permit, but somehow this locks me in to my current tag.
Why should this prevent me from exchanging tags?!!! I'm not hunting two seasons or owning two tags, and I'm not taking away a special permit from someone since I wasn't drawn? This makes not sense!!
While I'm at it, I'd like to see the state do away with purchasing a tag prior to putting in for special permits! Let people try for what they want, and if they don't get drawn, then let them buy a tag they will use. There's no harm with this, as no matter what a person puts in for, the state has limited numbers for each draw. Even if everyone put in for the same special permit, so what?!! Only a certain number of tags will be issued. All that will happen is it would increase the odds of getting drawn.
The reason they won't let you switch is because everyone would do that if they allowed it. A lot of people would love to apply for Little Naches or a Blue Mountains Big Bull Permit and if unsuccessful, they would then get a western WA elk tag so that they could hunt 3-point or bigger. It states in the regs that you can't switch if you've applied for a permit, although I did read on this forum about a guy getting his tagged switched, so they don't always stick to their own rules. Keep after it and you may get them to switch it.
The reason they won't do away with the requirement of purchasing a tag prior to applying for a special permit is due to money. The elk tag sales would probably be 1/3 of what they currently are because of the fact that a lot of guys won't hunt spikes and only buy the tag in hopes of drawing a special permit that allows them to hunt big bulls.
I'm curious to see if InsideWDFW has any more insight, but that is my :twocents:
Post by: tlbradford on October 23, 2010, 08:28:53 AM
Post by: BlackRidge on October 23, 2010, 09:46:42 AM
Post by: Special T on October 24, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
Post by: InsideWDFW on October 26, 2010, 06:29:06 PM
InsideWDFW I'm really surprised that they would not want you talking on a hunting/fishing board answering questions about non political issues. Basically you could have been limited to providing boiler plate answers that would clear things up and educate hunters in general. Was there any discussion by you or anyone else about the pros and cons of someone interacting with their customers? Had it ever been discussed in the past? If you cannot answer please say so... Thank you for elevating the discussion on this board.
I tried getting something this rolling, specifically a WDFW sponsored forum for answering the standard questions. Unfortunately the agency is very old fashion in some odd ways. Those who would have to sign off on it aren't exactly the most tech oriented and don't understand the power of forums like this one. I had to beg, borrow, and steal to get Dave Ware to go along with consolidating the drawing results (https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/wa/specialhuntlookup (https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/wa/specialhuntlookup)). Also there was some concerns on who would moderate/answer the questions. Public affairs is paranoid that wrong information from an official source would get out. It's one thing for a customer service to give wrong information out over the phone, it's a whole 'nother thing to give it out in writing. The agency is extremely paranoid about lawsuits.
What is your personal opinion of private ranches that receive public funds? Specifically Buckrun. Thanks
In all honesty I don't know much about the private ranches. Though I don't think they get private funds. From the little I did (creating the permits/log sheets), my understanding was that they were private lands that got x amount of permits, a certain percentage had to be given (sold/raffled) to the public.
Post by: Machias on October 26, 2010, 08:36:37 PM
Who was the complete moron who decided coyote hunting with dogs was socially unacceptable?
Post by: nontypical176 on October 26, 2010, 09:05:38 PM
And for the fish. Lots of these smaller rivers in the west are getting either no more hatchery fish released or a small fraction of what they used to. Basicly the rivers I grew up fishing steelhead on are now going to be almost all catch and release except for a few hatchery fish that come from other rivers. Whats the plan here? Will these rivers be off limits at some point? If numbers are good do they plan on letting us keep natives....eventually?
How many times would I have to call the WDFW, email and write letters to make them give the Toutle unit to the general hunters?...lol. Do you believe the reasons for a special permit unit as big as the toutle is strictly for the $$$$? Its just a personal pet peeve of mine because it is so close to home, a huge unit, heavily poached because its too big for them to manage, the permit aint really that "special", has lots of special permit land nearby, and would open up a ton more room for general elk tag holders on the west side.
Sorry, I have a lot on my mind.
Post by: gasman on October 27, 2010, 05:07:57 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 27, 2010, 05:42:32 AM
Seems to me like the WDFW is always looking for more ways to pinch pennys out of hunters and fisherman. We continuously fork over more and more cash, yet we are the ones used to keep the game populations at the levels they need. Where is all the money going? Why constantly more more more. I hear talk about these oportunities we are gaining in land access and such, but as far as I'm concerned things have been down hill since I started hunting and fishing. Why is it always hunters/fisherman forced to pay for WDFW programs? Is there anybody else in this state that pays for our wildlife, besides the fisheries money recieved from dams? How do you feel about the way our money is being spent by the WDFW?
Hunters are actually paying less and less every year when you look at the big picture. Other outdoor user groups are quickly catching up (and some say paying more) and many programs are paid for from the general fund.
As for the game levels.....wait until the wolves really take hold. :bash:
Post by: Special T on October 27, 2010, 07:00:32 AM
Post by: Fireant11 on October 27, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
I don't know if I agree that the state will lose such a large number of hunters by allowing special permits to be purchased without declaring a tag. I also don't buy into the fact that the western half would be over-ridden with hunters. The state doesn't limit the number of Eastside or Westside tags now, so what would they do if suddenly, everyone went and purchased an over-the-counter tag for one side of the state? I know this would never happen, but under the current rules, everyone in the state could buy a Westside elk permit. Using this as an argument against letting people put in for a permit prior to declaring a hunting method and side doesn't cut it.
I'm not upset with this, and will follow the rules. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Post by: nontypical176 on October 27, 2010, 08:44:16 PM
None of my buddys put in for tags because they don't know in the spring, what times they will have off in the fall. A guy will take vacation for a Special Permit, I did this year and it cost me plenty to take the time off, but can't afford to take the general season off every year. I hunt when I can afford to, where I can afford to (close to home). The WDFW says its because of crowding we have to designate, but its unfair for those of us that think WORK IS IMPORTANT. Something should have been changed a long long time ago. I will now cause "crowding" because I will be buying my tag the day before the season that I'm not working.
Keep thinking if enough of the people that feel the same as me start bit***** that something will change, thats why I keep posting it. The WDFW knows how I feel on a pretty regular basis also(emails, calls, in person). I get it... make us designate EAST/WEST and pay for a tag when we apply, not designate the weapon we will be using if not drawn. They are just screwing the Working Man.
Post by: meathunter on October 29, 2010, 09:21:52 PM
Post by: meathunter on October 29, 2010, 09:27:47 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 09, 2010, 12:17:58 PM
Glad you are back. Sorry to hear about your job, that sucks. I have a question, if we, "The People of Washington" have a question about how WDFW sees a situation or how it works internally, why would "they" fear or loath that? Why do they make you, "fear for your job?" If you are not doing any more than a FOIA request, what is the big deal?
I have posted a few times that WDFW is becoming adversarial to hunters and fishermen, heck, the General Public for that matter. I don't just mean Game Wardens in the field. I mean at Offices & Regulations as well. I have met awesome people, Officers, and people in the Offices. I have received good information which I am grateful for. But, I don't understand the general mistrust. Especially here on this site. Most people here would turn in a person illegally taking game in a heart beat. (IMHO) Most of the questions the law is how to abide by it not how to get around it. Even when I have said things that were not in favor of WDFW it is no different than I would have commented in regard to a traffic stop.
Anyway, I for one am glad you are here to post. :hello:
Post by: tritt007 on November 09, 2010, 12:45:14 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on November 09, 2010, 01:28:37 PM
Q:I am currently in a law enforcment program and plan on going to college after hischool getting my 4yr degree and then i am going to try and get on board (get hired onto) wdfw, I will still be hunting (when I have the opportunity, if i get hired on) . But this was my real question, If a wdfw officer is out on patrol during season and has his tag (say elk season in example) and he sees an elk can he shoot it and toss it in his truck.?
No....not anymore. Ethics rules have come into play. Wasn't frowned 30-40 years ago if they used common sense away from the crowds.
Post by: bobcat on November 09, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
Q:I am currently in a law enforcment program and plan on going to college after hischool getting my 4yr degree and then i am going to try and get on board (get hired onto) wdfw, I will still be hunting (when I have the opportunity, if i get hired on) . But this was my real question, If a wdfw officer is out on patrol during season and has his tag (say elk season in example) and he sees an elk can he shoot it and toss it in his truck.?:chuckle: That's a good question actually. But yeah, probably wouldn't look good if a WDFW officer was hunting on state time, with state equipment. I've heard if you really like to hunt you don't want to be a game warden because you won't ever have time off during hunting season. May not be true though.
Post by: whacker1 on November 09, 2010, 07:58:53 PM
Post by: bigtex on November 09, 2010, 08:09:00 PM
Q:I am currently in a law enforcment program and plan on going to college after hischool getting my 4yr degree and then i am going to try and get on board (get hired onto) wdfw, I will still be hunting (when I have the opportunity, if i get hired on) . But this was my real question, If a wdfw officer is out on patrol during season and has his tag (say elk season in example) and he sees an elk can he shoot it and toss it in his truck.?:chuckle: That's a good question actually. But yeah, probably wouldn't look good if a WDFW officer was hunting on state time, with state equipment. I've heard if you really like to hunt you don't want to be a game warden because you won't ever have time off during hunting season. May not be true though.
You'll have time off, just not a significant amount to scout and hunt, especially if you have a family and other obligations. Which is one reason why many WDFW Officers either hunt archery (longer seasons and also not as busy for work) or out of state (different timeframe for seasons).
Post by: h2ofowlr on November 09, 2010, 09:50:49 PM
Post by: thomasmx on November 09, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Post by: Buckrub on November 10, 2010, 11:02:25 AM
like others with zero points?
Just kidding.... ;)
Welcome back
Post by: WDFW-SUX on November 10, 2010, 11:23:06 AM
I have a question: Who decided that the inner workings of the department needed to be secret and that you would no longer be able to post on this forum?
I think they should be fired Yesterday.
Post by: Wacenturion on November 10, 2010, 11:36:38 AM
Q:I am currently in a law enforcment program and plan on going to college after hischool getting my 4yr degree and then i am going to try and get on board (get hired onto) wdfw, I will still be hunting (when I have the opportunity, if i get hired on) . But this was my real question, If a wdfw officer is out on patrol during season and has his tag (say elk season in example) and he sees an elk can he shoot it and toss it in his truck.?:chuckle: That's a good question actually. But yeah, probably wouldn't look good if a WDFW officer was hunting on state time, with state equipment. I've heard if you really like to hunt you don't want to be a game warden because you won't ever have time off during hunting season. May not be true though.
Absolutely false......they have time off like anyone else. Busy season...yes, but always have some time if they choose to hunt. Problem is....the hunt can turn into work as you're out there with the public, who always seem to present an opportunity to enforce the law.
Post by: LongTatLaw on November 10, 2010, 11:58:27 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on November 10, 2010, 01:03:50 PM
What specific public disclosure request would produce whatever documents the licensing dept and law enforcement uses to implement regulations? What's the name of the in-house processing. Guidelines? I've spoken to multiple agents in different departments that all but verbatim quote very specific language that is NOT found in the wdfg booklet nor wac's... ? If a member of the wdfg are failing their duties or conducting themselves unethically...what course of action is the most effective to get. The situation rectified? As in... an email to D Ware fails to yield. Results... what out of house office or agency has the weight to get it done? Is there anything below the gov's desk?
Letters to the Governors office is you best bet. WDFW doesn't like those and creates a fairly quick turn around down the chain of command. Governors office sets the reply time line and response back to you....not WDFW. Expecting WDFW to reply to your complaint....you'll get the run around.
Public information requests is also irritating to them. They have to pony up.
Post by: meathunter on November 10, 2010, 09:03:25 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on November 11, 2010, 07:20:28 AM
"Believe it or not I was the odd duck out and was one of the few who didn't hunt (not anti-hunting, just never had the chance). The guys who are directly involved with land use and game management (people like Dave Ware, Jerry Nelson, ect.) are just about as hardcore about hunting as you are. WDFW is one of those places where it's fairly easy to take a vacation during the summer, but almost impossible to get time off in the fall because everyone is out in the field."
Post by: Wacenturion on November 11, 2010, 08:29:17 AM
Meathunter- your ??? was answered on page 1
"Believe it or not I was the odd duck out and was one of the few who didn't hunt (not anti-hunting, just never had the chance). The guys who are directly involved with land use and game management (people like Dave Ware, Jerry Nelson, ect.) are just about as hardcore about hunting as you are. WDFW is one of those places where it's fairly easy to take a vacation during the summer, but almost impossible to get time off in the fall because everyone is out in the field."
That isn't necessarily the case. Not everybody is in the field during the fall. Many years ago everyone for the most case worked opening weekend of hunting and fishing season. Most old Dept. of Game field staff were commissioned and wrote tickets, whether agents, biologists or office managers. With the change in enforcement duties and full police powers over the years, only Agents are out there for the most part. You may have some biologists and others taking bag checks, checking signage, or whatever field duties during the season, but certainly not in the field checking folks like years ago. So the inability to go hunting or fishing isn't there on opening weekend like it used to be, or any other time during the season. They now can go if they so choose, in most cases.
The office jockeys can take off whenever during the year. Field staff are certainly in the field, but also have the same ability to take off, not just their weekends or prescribed days off, but vacation time as well. The resource is also closer....like out the back door, so much easier to be hard core about it. Hardcore means something entirely different than spending a couple days deer hunting or taking an occasional bird hunting trip, which most the office jockeys rarely do. Many hunt, some more than others, but certainly not hardcore for most, at least not by my definition. Hardcore is like many here, who when having the time to do so.....go, week in, week out.
Years ago, like during the 60's -80's as an example, if a steel-head hatchery manager wasn't working he was fishing. The same was fairly evident on the hunting side....but again more so in the field than the main office. Today you have managers who don't exactly hunt or fish the specific resource they manage like those folks of yesteryear. Those managers of years ago looked at the resource as we do...users. They managed for recreational opportunities as they too were users. Today...not the same management approach, particularly if you don't pursue what you responsible for. Just the way it is.
Today personnel at WDFW are far more diverse than 30 or 40 years ago. They come from less specific educational degree background so to speak. At one time it was pretty much fish or wildlife management degrees, or experience for some jobs. Today...ecological studies, wild-lands ecology, biology degrees from like Evergreen as examples are more the norm. The evolution away from those desired degrees of yesterday and the personal makeup of those people who earned them, as in they all hunted or fished, to a more a politically correct makeup in my mind. Therefore the new mix of birdwatchers, hikers, etc., are thrown into the management of WDFW. I don't even think the Director has a fish and wildlife degree, at least that's my understanding. I believe he comes from a charter fishing background. Nothing personal...but should tell you something. That new less specific, broader mindset, in itself, has changed the management landscape over the years to what it is today. Sad in my opinion. :twocents:
Post by: Hangfire on November 12, 2010, 05:37:39 AM
A friend of mine is a retired Game Department, fish hatchery manager. In the past couple of years he has: Hunted Africa, Guided cougar hunt in Idaho and British Columbia, Drop camp horse Elk hunt in Colorado, So far this year, Archery buffalo in Cheney. Bear in Idaho, Bear in the Olympics, Elk hunt Montana, Muzzle loader deer and elk Washington, He is leaving today for a deer hunt in Montana with a friend, will hunt white tail in northern Idaho with relatives, and late season muzzleloader in Washington. He has a drift boat and jet boat. This summer he fished Alaska, shrimped in Hood Canal, fished in Grays harbor and steel head and salmon fished the west side. He is in his mid 60's and often hunts/fishes by him self. His Olympics bear, he was by him self several miles from the trail head and camped over night. He carries a alarm in case of a problem. In his house are mounted Turkey, cougar, bear, mule deer, goat, 8 African animals, halibut tail, bobcat and pronghorn, the last I knew. This is the kind of person that used to be a Game dept employee. He is lucky that his wife still works, with a well paying job.
Post by: Special T on November 13, 2010, 10:32:16 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on November 13, 2010, 11:39:33 AM
Insides last active was oct 29th...Wonder if someone gave his ass a beating about talking???
Hopefully he out hunting. :chuckle:
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 21, 2010, 07:11:00 PM
Is there any hope for hunting in Washington???? Is There Any Hope For Hunting In Washington????
[/size]
Post by: bobcat on November 21, 2010, 07:16:49 PM
My only real ?
Is there any hope for hunting in Washington????
Sure, great coyote, cougar, and wolf hunting.
Post by: Mr T on November 24, 2010, 11:36:13 AM
From this statement earlier..."If a member of the wdfg are failing their duties or conducting themselves unethically...what course of action is the most effective to get. The situation rectified?" Years and years ago I was having trouble obtaining my teaching certificate in a timely manner from Olympia after I graduated. I was a week away from working as long as my certificate came through in a time, however Olympia continually told me it could be another 2 months. I WAS FURIOUS that I was about to lose my first job out of college over this. I contacted some three of my local government represenatatives by phone and email. Believe it or not I had my certificate in three days and all three representatives contacted my personally or had an assistant call me to be sure that I received it and that all was ready for me to begin work. Your local officials may not have the same concern for hunting (especially here on the west side) but just a potential idea for you.
Post by: InsideWDFW on November 30, 2010, 12:04:19 PM
I loved my job, and enjoyed helping you guys out while working for them and afterwards. But I can't continue to help an agency that's actively trying to make my life hell.
At this point in time, the only advice I can give ya is to contact the agency with your questions.
Post by: 400out on November 30, 2010, 12:11:22 PM
Post by: Special T on November 30, 2010, 12:14:50 PM
Post by: Kc_Kracker on November 02, 2012, 09:11:33 AM
Mike, are you the guy mentioned on the news last night? Just curious.
I'm assuming you are talking about this http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html (http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/19/1408857/former-washington-department-of.html)? Nope.
Basically I made the mistake a messing around with my boss. She eventually got mad and had friends up on high. So I got the crap audited out of me, and they found that I was using Firefox, had used the WILD system to look up an address of the a coworker for Christmas cards, and had looked a sub-shop's webpage to see what I was going to have for dinner. Life lesson # 3454: Do not date co-workers, especially if she signs your evaluation.
Post by: gotfish? on November 29, 2012, 07:29:16 PM
Post by: CP on November 29, 2012, 07:32:10 PM
How about master hunter? why no class ? why so hard?
What's so hard about it?
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 29, 2012, 07:39:50 PM
Thanks for getting on here and answering questions!
Post by: bobcat on November 29, 2012, 07:44:23 PM
Nobody is going to answer your questions.
Post by: Tbar on November 29, 2012, 07:45:13 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on November 29, 2012, 08:07:19 PM
Post by: csaaphill on November 29, 2012, 08:39:46 PM
Post by: 3nails on November 29, 2012, 08:55:35 PM
Post by: JLS on November 29, 2012, 08:59:50 PM
OK great! I have a question. If I shoot a duck and am unsure of what kind it actually is, do you think it would be a good idea to post up a picture of it on this forum for all of the nice HW people to help me identify it?
:yike::yike:
While you're at it, tell 'em you drew a permit but have never been to the GMU and want to know where to start scouting.
Post by: Wacenturion on December 09, 2012, 01:31:36 PM