Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: bushmaster on November 10, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
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I have talked about this subject for many years around the campfire up hunting. Some of those hunters were police, a couple of CPA's, 1 IRS agent and 4hvac techs like myself!
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
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You hit the nail on the head. But if the guy is proud of his "hunt", then good for him....... not, hopefully deep down he knows he didn't deserve the animal he took :bash:
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its like drunk driving.....every one's brother does it ;)
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I think it should be counted as poaching and be charged as such. I think if you know that you are tresspassing and shot an animal on private land you should loss your rights for life on top of your truck and gear
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Guess I have a bit of a different take - To me trespassing is trespassing, and poaching is poaching. Different punishments for different crimes. To take the animal from the trespasser to me is a big mistake. For one the animal is still considered "wild", thus the property owner has no more "legal" right to possess the animal than anybody else, you cant just haul off and shoot animals at will on your property or attempt to contain them to your property by harrassing them ( which I have seen many property owners do ). Also, being ticketed is simply being "charged" for a crime with a penalty attached. Not being proven guilty. How many of you have had a traffic violation citation that was later tossed out because of insufficient evidence? or you were innocent and contended it on those grounds? Remember innocent until PROVEN guilty not innocent until the cop gets a ticket book out. If the animal is seized and the defendant is later cleared of the charge what then? Who is gonna take care of processing the animal? Some cases are more cut and dried than others but are we gonna seize the animal every time?
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Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
There was a proposal 2/3 years ago to make trespassing while hunting an additional wildlife offense but it didn't get enough votes.
The "i didn't see the no trespass sign" doesn't get you off of the trespass charge. Trespassing cases aren't really important in the eyes of a court or prosecutor so thats why a lot of them are dropped, deferred (basically probation), or a very small fine. Which most people don't agree with.
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Landowners don't have to post 'no trespassing' signs in this state. It is the hunter's responsibility to know where he is and whether he can legally be there.
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Exactly!
I believe it was back in the early 1980's that land owners no longer had to post property to keep out trespassers!
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Last year My neighbor who owns 80 arces in Washougal walked up on three guys that were field dressing a deer on his property. First he called the County sheriff who showed up and issued three trespassing tickets to the three men for 500 bucks each. The Sheriff held the men called the warden who showed up, confinscated all three rifles, and issued them all must appear violations for illegally shoting a deer on private property with a max fine of 2500 dollars. My neighbor explained that he talked with the warden later and was told that the man that shot the deer lost his hunting privledges for 5 years and his fine reduced to 2000, the other two guys fine was reduced to 500 dollars and did not lose there licensing rights. They lost 3 rifles, and a total of 5000 dollars in fines, and 1s hunting privledges, know that was last year, and this guy is pretty solid no BS. It may not be poaching but it is definitly a fine to shot a animal on someone elses property.
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This must have been about seven or eight years ago now, but a neighbor of mine with about 40 acres of pasture and forested swamp bordering the highway had guys pull off to the side of the highway, right by their driveway on opening morning because there were elk in the fenced and cross fenced pasture. She walked out of the house and was walking towards them telling them to get lost when they SHOT the elk, right past her as she was walking towards them. She was furious, called the sheriff, deputy showed up and of course, knew the offenders and talked her out of pressing charges. The offenders kept the elk and a few days later a dead salmon was thrown into the property owners' yard for their dog to get into.
Absolutely outrageous, and apparently not that unusual. I've had trespassers, people tearing down my signs, illegal campfires just behind my land on the timber road there, people trespassing my neighbor's adjacent property and shooting at elk at night, within about 300 yards of my house, children and livestock. Last year I just missed catching a guy who drove off of the logging road, past multiple no trespassing signs onto my place, just to do a bunch of donuts in his 4x4 and tear up a piece of flat ground that I had hand manicured with a rake after some machinery had been in there, to keep it draining properly. When I first moved here and bought this land, I had not yet started hunting, and let me tell you, I did NOT have a very high opinion of hunters in general. In general, I still don't. The first two years I was here elk opening day was absolute mayhem near my place, with multiple people shooting from the highway right below my house at first light. Thankfully, the elk don't show themselves in that field anymore. Last winter some *censored* pulled off to the side of the highway, within about 150 yards of the house below mine and started blasting away at the ducks in the wetlands there, at dawn. That would be PRIVATE wetlands, owned by a private individual, fenced on all three sides. Nice. Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.
As you can probably tell, this topic gets my blood pressure up, and makes me want to go to the suburbs where some of these fine "hunters" live, park an RV in their lawn, build a campfire in their flowerbeds, toss a bunch of beer cans and garbage around the place and start shooting the songbirds out of their trees. Most of them still probably wouldn't "get it".
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to me hunting on private property is just as bad are poaching. its the exact same thing as hunting in a closed unit to me.
its different is you are hunting close to private property and your wounded animal made its way onto said private property. then you just have to hope the land owner is a nice person and will let you get your animal.
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It may not be poaching but it is definitly a fine to shot a animal on someone elses property.
Evidently he either shot it on land that was posted "No hunting" or "No hunting without permission", or he was nailied with a license or tag violation. Otherwise I think he would only have been nailed for trespassing like the the other two.
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Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.
:yeah:
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This must have been about seven or eight years ago now, but a neighbor of mine with about 40 acres of pasture and forested swamp bordering the highway had guys pull off to the side of the highway, right by their driveway on opening morning because there were elk in the fenced and cross fenced pasture. She walked out of the house and was walking towards them telling them to get lost when they SHOT the elk, right past her as she was walking towards them. She was furious, called the sheriff, deputy showed up and of course, knew the offenders and talked her out of pressing charges. The offenders kept the elk and a few days later a dead salmon was thrown into the property owners' yard for their dog to get into.
Absolutely outrageous, and apparently not that unusual. I've had trespassers, people tearing down my signs, illegal campfires just behind my land on the timber road there, people trespassing my neighbor's adjacent property and shooting at elk at night, within about 300 yards of my house, children and livestock. Last year I just missed catching a guy who drove off of the logging road, past multiple no trespassing signs onto my place, just to do a bunch of donuts in his 4x4 and tear up a piece of flat ground that I had hand manicured with a rake after some machinery had been in there, to keep it draining properly. When I first moved here and bought this land, I had not yet started hunting, and let me tell you, I did NOT have a very high opinion of hunters in general. In general, I still don't. The first two years I was here elk opening day was absolute mayhem near my place, with multiple people shooting from the highway right below my house at first light. Thankfully, the elk don't show themselves in that field anymore. Last winter some *censored* pulled off to the side of the highway, within about 150 yards of the house below mine and started blasting away at the ducks in the wetlands there, at dawn. That would be PRIVATE wetlands, owned by a private individual, fenced on all three sides. Nice. Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.
As you can probably tell, this topic gets my blood pressure up, and makes me want to go to the suburbs where some of these fine "hunters" live, park an RV in their lawn, build a campfire in their flowerbeds, toss a bunch of beer cans and garbage around the place and start shooting the songbirds out of their trees. Most of them still probably wouldn't "get it".
Those arent hunters those are *censored*es
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I feel no trespassing and poaching is different and should remain that way. I'm glad that some and believe it's a case by case bases that those that shot in private land got to keep the deer elk etc. With so many no hunting signs up etc.. no wonder this happens a lot. Maybe instead put up a feel free to hunt sign, or something might make new friends. :o
I've hunted feel free lands many times and still have a lot of bad feed back from the neighbore who has no trespassing. I realise a few bad apples spoil it for all, but hate that and should be different. For those that rip signs down they probably do it out of anger because yet again theres a no hunting sign so while I dont condone it I understand it. So agian to you private land owner maybe do feel free signs or have some kind of regulated hunt and maybe some of these issues may dissapear. :rolleyes:
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There is no way on god's green earth that I am going to open my property to any and all who want to hunt on it, especially not after seeing the kinds of problems that I've listed. If someone wishes to hunt my land, they can come and ask me, just like I ask any other land owner whose land I'm interested in hunting on. And even then, it would be really, really probationary.
I know people who have given permission to people that they thought they knew and trusted, only to have them violate game laws on their land. Apparently, something about hunting just makes some people lose all perspective and common decency.
As far as the no hunting/no trespassing signs, I didn't put them up until AFTER I had a bunch of problems, including garbage dumping, shooting at night near my house, etc etc. And at that time, I had livestock, too, and kids living and playing here. You don't like seeing no trespassing signs? Tough luck. I bought this property, I pay taxes on it, I live here and my kids will inherit it. I have every right in the world to keep the general public off of it, and the general public has no right to expect or assume otherwise, let alone tear down my signs.
The vast, vast majority of the acreage in this county is either DNR or corporate land, and is available to hunt on. There is no shortage of land open to hunting. You don't need mine, too.
The next step for me to solve this problem is to simply gate off the forestry road that crosses my land. I have the right, stated in my deed, to do that. I've not done that yet, in deference to letting people pass through on their way to corporate land, but if the abuses continue much longer, that is exactly what I'll do. Then people can b!tch and moan about yet another gated road.
:rolleyes:
Those arent hunters those are *censored*es
Well, they're *censored*es with rifles, hunting licenses (presumably) and orange vests, and they're shooting at elk, so to the general public and local landowners, they all look like hunters just the same.
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I think that the person should be given a ticket for tresspassing and it should be up to the land owner what happens to the animal in ? Let the hunter keep it, Landowner can take it and butcher it for himself or donate it to a food bank.
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In the spirit of this thread, I went over and talked to a neighbor today to get permission to hunt his land which borders part of mine. He needed to talk to me for a long time, but he finally decided I was someone he could say yes to. I get to hunt only elk back there; he doesn't want any deer or bear killed on his land. I'm stoked now, because I'll have a backup spot for when the rest of the public and corporate land fills up with truck hunters for the last weekend.
While I was there, I got to hear multiple stories about people trespassing on his land, most recently just last weekend, someone drove a quad right up one of his driveways and around his locked gate. He went out in his truck and waited for them to come back out, even though he's on oxygen and in poor health, but they apparently went out a different way, because he waited until dark and never saw them. He was P!SSED.
Obviously the trespassing thing is a huge problem for landowners living around here. I would bet that nearly every landowner in these three valleys has had to deal with it at some point. One neighbor apparently sits at the end of his road by the highway with a shotgun on opening weekend to turn people away. Doesn't sound like he is interested in opening his land to everyone and making "new friends"... :chuckle:
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I feel no trespassing and poaching is different and should remain that way. I'm glad that some and believe it's a case by case bases that those that shot in private land got to keep the deer elk etc. With so many no hunting signs up etc.. no wonder this happens a lot. Maybe instead put up a feel free to hunt sign, or something might make new friends. :o
I've hunted feel free lands many times and still have a lot of bad feed back from the neighbore who has no trespassing. I realise a few bad apples spoil it for all, but hate that and should be different. For those that rip signs down they probably do it out of anger because yet again theres a no hunting sign so while I dont condone it I understand it. So agian to you private land owner maybe do feel free signs or have some kind of regulated hunt and maybe some of these issues may dissapear. :rolleyes:
obviously you are not or never have been a land owner :dunno: have you ever been shot at on your own property all in the name of hunting? Have you had your animals shot at cuz they thought it was an elk? Have you had people jump out of their truck shoot a couple of ducks flying over your house then realize they just shot over completely fenced land with dogs....yeah I kept the ducks the dumb *censored*s broke several laws that day.....
I love feel free to hunt land and commend any landowner who offers this however I also totally respect the ones who have given up and post their property no hunting.....too many yahoo's with guns and hunting licenses..
however I dont think this needs to be considered poaching unless the animal is actually poached that is a separate offense...trespassing needs to be taken more seriously in general...hunting or otherwise blantant disregard for anothers property is just plain rude for starters.....and really i dont know if a trespasser is harmless or not nowdays with so many freaks and tweaks ....
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Hmmmm. What about people who post public property? Should they loose their hunting privledges and pay a huge fine? I of two places like this.
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Hmmmm. What about people who post public property? Should they loose their hunting privledges and pay a huge fine? I of two places like this.
I think if you falsely post public land you should be fined etc.....
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Hmmmm. What about people who post public property? Should they loose their hunting privledges and pay a huge fine? I of two places like this.
I think if you falsely post public land you should be fined etc.....
It's a $271 fine to post land preventing hunting or fishing unless you have the permission of the landowner.
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saw on opening weekend this year where some yahoos thought they would block a logging road by falling a tree across it, and create their own multi thousand acre private hunting reserve... :o
Must have been a non-local, or they would have know that nearly every pickup truck in this county has a chainsaw in the back at all times. Looks like someone just bucked the offending section into cordwood and drove right through. And yeah, I think if they had been caught at that, they should have been fined at the very least. Preferably run out of the county for the rest of the year, but I don't think there are provisions in the law for that.... :dunno:
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saw on opening weekend this year where some yahoos thought they would block a logging road by falling a tree across it, and create their own multi thousand acre private hunting reserve... :o
Must have been a non-local, or they would have know that nearly every pickup truck in this county has a chainsaw in the back at all times. Looks like someone just bucked the offending section into cordwood and drove right through. And yeah, I think if they had been caught at that, they should have been fined at the very least. Preferably run out of the county for the rest of the year, but I don't think there are provisions in the law for that.... :dunno:
Well in that situation both people who cut the tree could be in trouble. In most areas you can't cut both live and fallen trees. It's different if your stuck behind a tree, such as your in a wind storm and a tree fell on the road. But if somebody cut a tree down to block the road then you try and remove it you could be in the same amount of trouble as them.
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Well ya to the one who posted not letting people hunt less they ask at least you would let someone ask some don't even do that and yell at you for even asking. I hope tho you at least put a phone number down so someone could ask some property owners don't even live on the land so hard to know if the farm house u see driving by is the one to ask or not. I have had some good luck in asking in the past so I know it's not hard to ask but some people are jsut asses and don't even let you ask or jsut flat out say No! but I agree shoudl not trespass less u have permision and obey his rules. I jsut merely state I understand the frustration on boths sides.
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I think you're missing the point. It's not like you automatically should get rewarded with a "yes" just to show what a good guy you are for asking. I'm under no obligation to even make myself available to be asked, let alone to give anyone who asks a "yes" just to make them feel like it was worth the trouble. And no, I'm definitely not posting my phone number on my property line, either. If someone is so serious about it that they scout in advance, figure out where they want to be and why, and look up the landowner and contact them ahead of time, then I'm way more likely to think that person might be responsible enough to let on my place. If someone shows up on opening weekend, wandering around and decide that they want to cross my fence line but don't know how to get a hold of me, well, tough luck. Besides, by then, I'm probably already out hunting, and you won't reach me by phone anyway.
It depends entirely on who's doing the asking, but I think unless I knew someone, the answer would probably be no unless I was really impressed. There's just no way to know until it's too late what kind of a jerk someone is capable of being. There's a lot of strange people out there, and I don't really want them wandering around on my land with high powered rifles. Besides, I like my privacy. That's part of why I live out in the middle of nowhere, and put up with flooded roads, frequent power outages, lack of services and no amenities like nice libraries, good restaurants, movie theaters, etc. When I went to my neighbor's place, who I've lived a quarter mile away from for 10 years, and who crosses my land to get to his water line and spring, he still didn't say yes right away, and the yes that I eventually got was conditional. No deer or bear hunting, only elk.
Basically, you're asking to come into my home, or at least into my yard. Don't be surprised when people don't want to let strangers with rifles into their homes and yards. And if you're jealous of how big my yard is, or how many deer and elk you think might be on it, well, go buy yourself a big yard, too.
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Again not to stretch it out to other issues I think poaching and tresspasing is different and should be so.
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If you knowingly trespass, to shoot an animal, it is exactly the same as poaching. It's just like shooting an animal in a closed unit. Too many "hunters" ignore private property, and they should be punished harshly.
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Heres one of my pet peeves and still kind of on the subject. Hunters that shoot someones cow and mistook ot for a Deer, Elk, etc.. This one always gets me because it is one of the main reasons land owners post land.
I think they are stupid or somethings wrong with em if they can't tell a Deer, Elk and a cow!
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At that point the animal would proceeds from a criminal offense. And a cop would be more then justified in seizing it. And ignorance about an area not being posted isn't a defense to arrest or prosecution.
Just my two cents
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If you knowingly trespass, to shoot an animal, it is exactly the same as poaching. It's just like shooting an animal in a closed unit. Too many "hunters" ignore private property, and they should be punished harshly.
:yeah:
It just comes down to respect and there are alot of hunters that do not have respect. THat is why most land onwers will not let you hunt there land. Land owners work hard for what they have and don't want there land mistreated by any one. I got permission to hunt some private land this year and got a 2 point drove right down to the guys house and asked him what he drank. I had a bottle at his house the following weekend and I am going to bring him some summer sausage when it is done. I think just for me holding my word even something as small as a bottle made him happy.
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I have 2 different scenarios for you... Fist if you hare hunting corporate or DNR land, cross county and stumble on some ones 40-80-100 acre patch should you be treated the same as a road shooter? or someone who wheels across the property?
The second is i have tried to get written permission to hunt on certain peoples property....ALL I CAN GET IS VERBAL! Many land owners are worried about liability and don't want a piece of paper tagging them to you... So when i get jumped by the neighbor demanding to see my written permission where am i left?
I think the system isn't perfect but i'm satisfied with the way it is. :twocents:
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I have 2 different scenarios for you... Fist if you hare hunting corporate or DNR land, cross county and stumble on some ones 40-80-100 acre patch should you be treated the same as a road shooter? or someone who wheels across the property?
The second is i have tried to get written permission to hunt on certain peoples property....ALL I CAN GET IS VERBAL! Many land owners are worried about liability and don't want a piece of paper tagging them to you... So when i get jumped by the neighbor demanding to see my written permission where am i left?
I think the system isn't perfect but i'm satisfied with the way it is. :twocents:
well my hope is for the WDFW to start their land access program and hope It opens up some land where I hunt.
I guess tell the guy you have premision but not written and to go ask the farmer if this is true or not, better yet offer to go with the guy to the owner that way he can't say your lying. Luckly for me in my permissions I got the written permission or at least used to and still would if I went there more than likely. The one land I used to get permission from which is a cousin to the other landowner is dead and so I don't think I could now but may stop in agian.
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i live in buckley k the guy i heard he had permission to shoot an elk and he kept the animal
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there are lots of people willing to give permission just ask and the guys in buckley most of them did/do have permission
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This topic gets my blood pressure up too. It is ridiculous that people think that it is no big deal to trespass on private, posted, property to shoot a deer/elk. IMO I think that if someone is caught trespassing on private, posted property that they should be fully held responsible and that it should be considered poaching or be treated the same way with regards of fines and punishment. Should everyone be able to go onto Hanford property and shoot giant elk and deer? I mean, that is the same thing, just looking at who owns the property is what keeps people from doing it doesn't it? That's bull in my mind. Still a wild animal yes, but it is the same thing in my mind as shooting a deer in a GMU that isn't open. I'd probably try to rationalize it and say it is not the same and is okay to do if it was something I have ever done and wanted to somehow make myself believe was okay, but that's not the kind of person I am. :twocents:
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anyone here about the guy in enumclaw who poached a 6x6 or something like that?... i got word of it when i came into work today and one of my co workers had asked me about it (being i was born n raised in enumclaw etc.) i havent heard any details, i checked some of the herds driving by them today to see if any of them were missing.... and i seen every bull in them that i saw during WSMF season even... is it spoof or for real? it wouls be a sad shame to see or hear someone had poached one of the big bulls out here, yea being a hunter and all...everyone gets that oh man i want that on my wall yadda yadda...but if your gonna poach or take something on someones private property with no permission.....just take a pic with your camera is what i say or do haha!
someone inform me on this post if they did hear about a enumclaw bull taken recently...(like over the past weekend recently)
thanks
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Been watching this post for some time attempting to stay out of the conversation but when I read "money" statement I thought I would post a few facts. Fact 1) the individual who shot the bull in the field in Buckley DID NOT have permission to be on the private land. Fact 2) No the land is not posted but does not need to be to be charged with Criminal Trespass in the second degree "misdemeanor", can glady post the RCW (revised code of Washington) if needed. Fact 3) Yes the City of Buckley has an ordinance that makes it illegal to discharge any firearm in the City limits of Buckley, (misdemeanor) Fact 4) When applicable there is also a law called Reckless Endangerment this is a (gross misdemeanor)
Misdemeanors are punishable by 90 days in jail and $1,000 dollar fine, a gross misdemeanor is punishable by 1 year in jail and a $5,000 dollar fine. PUBLIC RECORDS show that the individual who shot the Bull Elk in the City limits of Buckley on private property was charged with all three crimes. Fact 5) No game violation was committed, many laws where broken, but game laws where not one of them. Those are the laws that Officers and Game Agents have to deal with on a regular basis. Remember they do not make the laws they enforce them. Folks like your selves lobbying in Olympia is the only way laws get passed so something can be done further in situations like this post. Until then this topic will keep coming up year after year it will just be in a different town. Simply put the laws need to be stiffer with a bigger bite.That's my :twocents: for whats its worth.
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I have talked about this subject for many years around the campfire up hunting. Some of those hunters were police, a couple of CPA's, 1 IRS agent and 4hvac techs like myself!
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
Ya somethin like that happened this year in Buckley. I had been archery elk hunting in enumclaw on private property then around Buckley a little. I drove out around the state school and spotted a heavy 6 dark horn,nice bull. Knowing its the city limits, i had to just watch it. Then about a month later some guy shoots it with a muzzy? Even though the area is not well posted, you shouldnt shoot into an area you are not sure of. THe cops and game warden came escorted him to his bull, helped him load it, then fined him. He kept the bull and made the paper?? My buddy shot a bull in enumclaw with an arrow and it ran onto private land. He talked to the owner and he told him to f- off. SO he called the warden, and he was allowed to look for his bull. People are idiots and would rather no one find the injured/dead bull than hunters go on their property.
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i live in buckley k the guy i heard he had permission to shoot an elk and he kept the animal
The guy did not have permission to hunt. Plus its in the city limits! You cannot shoot a gun in the city limits. he got a tresspassing fine
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For me it is not worth the charge or to violate my ethics to tresspass. It is not poaching to tresspass. The landowner does not own the "Wild Game." If we are going to charge people with crimes that are not what they did why not charge them with "Domestic Violence" for tresspassing. Then they loose firearms privileges. (Or, create an equal new gun ban program.) I have heard of people getting far more than just a $500.00 ticket for first offence. One case was for elk up North of Spokane.
My personal opinion is life is easier when we follow the rules. Many landowners need our help to protect their land. Tresspassers often do a lot of damage. They cut fences, leave trash, I know a guy who has a bullet hole in his house. Sure, I know the landowners who think that Game belongs to them because it is on his/her property. But, I know more landowners who have been burned by people who have no respect for private property.
My :twocents: to people is, "Please don't tresspass. It does so much damage to the reputation of us lawful, respectful hunters."
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Well put (wenatcheejay) !! I feel the same way. I don't care what it is in life it is not yours then ask before you act. No acceptions. On the other side the laws actually are very clear that's the point I was trying to point out. Only laws that are applicable to the event or situation (crime) can be applied at that incident. Of course every body has different passions in this world that touch their hearts and tug at their nerves so certain people want to see people in deep do do for different crimes. But when all the smoke clears and the Officers and/or Game Agents now have to deal with the situation they can only enforce the laws that are on the book. They do not have the pleasure of making up laws to enforce on some dip *censored* that trespasses and shoots an Elk on Private property. Because believe me I know plenty of them and if they could make being STUPID a Felony they would. :bash: :bash:
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wenatcheejay...you sure a very well put point there.
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The ruling seems to be different down here where I am from. When people trespass and get caught it depends on if the land owner has a valid tag or wishes to give it to a person in their family whether or not the trespasser keeps the elk or deer. If the land owner does not want the animal, then the violater gets to keep the animal and is charged only with a fine. I can recall 3 different scenarios where this has happened in the last 3 years around here and have heard the same comment come from the local wardens mouth.
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The ruling seems to be different down here where I am from. When people trespass and get caught it depends on if the land owner has a valid tag or wishes to give it to a person in their family whether or not the trespasser keeps the elk or deer. If the land owner does not want the animal, then the violater gets to keep the animal and is charged only with a fine. I can recall 3 different scenarios where this has happened in the last 3 years around here and have heard the same comment come from the local wardens mouth.
Ya that is a lot different then Washington state law. Where are you from Rosie?
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From southwest Washington myself... Thats just what I have encountered down here. Might be law officers interpret the law different ways, not sure. :dunno:
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Why would the landowner be allowed to tag an animal that a trespasser shot? That makes no sense. The landowner did not shoot it, so that's a violation of the law in itself. (tagging an animal that you didn't kill)
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Ya not sure... Tell me this one, have you ever heard of somebody being allowed to tag a spike elk that has been poached so it does not go to waste, that has happened as well. Maybe they let the land owner tag it to guarantee no waste. Would much rather somebody use an animal than it go to waste in my opinion.
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Why would the landowner be allowed to tag an animal that a trespasser shot? That makes no sense. The landowner did not shoot it, so that's a violation of the law in itself. (tagging an animal that you didn't kill)
I was kind of thinking the same thing, but if someone shoots an elk on private property and gets caught tresspassing before they have had a chance to retrieve the animal, doesn't the landowner have the right to refuse access for retrieving the game? In that case I wouldn't be surprised if a game cop allowed the landowner to keep and tag the animal as opposed to letting it go to waste since the hunter isn't able to retrieve it...I've never personally witnessed it before, but I've heard of gamies doing that with poached animals before.
Anyone else?
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OK, I guess in certain situations it might make sense. It's certainly better than letting it go to waste. Just seems odd to offer a poached animal to a landowner as if being the landowner gives him rights to it.
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Seems really odd...animals don't have a clue about jurisdictional boundaries, but we dwell on them. I give those gamies some serious credit if they have the courage to ignore the written law when it doesn't make any sense (refering to letting someone tag an animal instead of letting it go to waste).
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Seems really odd...animals don't have a clue about jurisdictional boundaries, but we dwell on them. I give those gamies some serious credit if they have the courage to ignore the written law when it doesn't make any sense (refering to letting someone tag an animal instead of letting it go to waste).
That is one reason for wolves IMO. They don't respect "No Hunting" signs.
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ya admitidley never thought on that Let the guy keep his elk which again goes with my opinion tresspass is different than poaching.
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You know to stop that... You can do what my uncle did years ago. Someone shot a nice bull on his property. The guy said call the police I don't care. So my uncle went up to the house called the police like he should have and grabed his 12 gauge and walked down to the elk and blew the snot out of the rack. He said it was in about 5 big chunks and 100's of little chunks.
Then he said good for you... Get the hell off my property.
Police came helped him load the elk and there were so many pieces of antler he had to pay a pretty penny to get it all back into place. Could not enter it into BC or PY as it was destroyed. Pretty much make it a real pain in the ass for the person who shot it on your property.
The dude flipped out as well. The police kind of laugh at it. And said word will get out not to shoot there as you will get the elk but the rack will come in a bag with no instructions on how to put it back together.
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Not sure if this question was asked above, but what does the law, (or what would you do) in the following situation.
You shoot a deer on public land, it runs onto private and dies.
Landowner says you cannot access his property.
What can you do?
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Call the game warden, explain and go from there. Just my first thought. ?
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I due believe if landowner will not let you on there property to access your legally harvested animmal your out of luck!
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Agreed you are out of luck.
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Isn't it automatically a felony if they bring a firearm along in this state?
I'd tell the guy "What elk? I don't see an elk?"
Then I'd tell the police "What elk? I don't see an elk?"
4th amendment.
Thanks,
Curtis
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5th admentment you mean 4th is for illegal search without a warrant.
and felony for whom didn't understand your statement for them to bring one into this state?
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Sorry...
So 4th amendment is what I was saying. They can call the cops all they want but they arent coming on my property without a warrant.
And if the poacher trespasses with a firearm, I thought it was considered a felony. maybe im wrong but I thought Washington had passed that law like 10 years ago.
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no dont think so tresspassing weather with a firearm or not is only a misdameanor gross misdameanor.
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I have talked about this subject for many years around the campfire up hunting. Some of those hunters were police, a couple of CPA's, 1 IRS agent and 4hvac techs like myself!
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
The above was all prior to the new "hunting while trespassing" law. Under the new law, hunting while trespassing renders nearly everything used in the commission of the crime to forfeiture, in addition to fines and suspension of hunting rights. This law was created to address the above issue.
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Just a no trespassing ticket?????? Heck I'm gonna sneak in to Northwest Trek and kill a ripper, especially if they'll help me load it up!!!!!! ;)
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i think it should be poaching to shoot an animal on private property that you dont have permission to hunt. here is why. consider i am property owner who has invested thousands of dollars in food plots to grow good harvest-able deer. then some one comes on my property and shoots one. now im out part of my property investment. now change the item. lets say its not a deer but a prize winning fair pumpkin that im growing and some one comes on my property and harvests my pumpkin. now they are both natural things to this earth blah blah. what that person did was steal from the property owner. as the law states possession is 9/10 of the law. if there is a deer on my land and some one kills and takes it from my land without my permission he has stolen it, and should be treated as they illegally harvested an animal.
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:bdid:
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i think it should be poaching to shoot an animal on private property that you dont have permission to hunt. here is why. consider i am property owner who has invested thousands of dollars in food plots to grow good harvest-able deer. then some one comes on my property and shoots one. now im out part of my property investment. now change the item. lets say its not a deer but a prize winning fair pumpkin that im growing and some one comes on my property and harvests my pumpkin. now they are both natural things to this earth blah blah. what that person did was steal from the property owner. as the law states possession is 9/10 of the law. if there is a deer on my land and some one kills and takes it from my land without my permission he has stolen it, and should be treated as they illegally harvested an animal.
Not quite.... the pumpkin you plant from seed and retain 100% ownership. No wildlife (deer) can be owned in this state by you. You have the right to post it out but it isn't "your" deer. It is "our" deer as a member of the public.
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:) thanks whitepirate exactly what I was thinking on. Didn't count all who thought his was a good idea but as my statement says 3,000 tyrants do live one mile away.
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Can you shoot a deer across a fence, then throw a lasoo across to retrieve it? :dunno:
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I've had that exact problem with waterfowl... When a dead goose locks up and goes into the neighbors property.
Is it trespassing if only my pup goes into their property?
Can we just start sending our pups in to get the elk out?
:tinfoil: