Post by: bushmaster on November 10, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
Post by: stormin85 on November 10, 2010, 11:11:51 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on November 10, 2010, 11:13:31 AM
Post by: huntlakewood on November 10, 2010, 11:38:28 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on November 10, 2010, 12:32:05 PM
Post by: bigtex on November 10, 2010, 12:52:47 PM
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
There was a proposal 2/3 years ago to make trespassing while hunting an additional wildlife offense but it didn't get enough votes.
The "i didn't see the no trespass sign" doesn't get you off of the trespass charge. Trespassing cases aren't really important in the eyes of a court or prosecutor so thats why a lot of them are dropped, deferred (basically probation), or a very small fine. Which most people don't agree with.
Post by: Snapshot on November 10, 2010, 01:49:50 PM
Post by: Ice Cap on November 10, 2010, 02:43:20 PM
I believe it was back in the early 1980's that land owners no longer had to post property to keep out trespassers!
Post by: Hunter Dug on November 10, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
Post by: woodrat on November 10, 2010, 07:03:19 PM
Absolutely outrageous, and apparently not that unusual. I've had trespassers, people tearing down my signs, illegal campfires just behind my land on the timber road there, people trespassing my neighbor's adjacent property and shooting at elk at night, within about 300 yards of my house, children and livestock. Last year I just missed catching a guy who drove off of the logging road, past multiple no trespassing signs onto my place, just to do a bunch of donuts in his 4x4 and tear up a piece of flat ground that I had hand manicured with a rake after some machinery had been in there, to keep it draining properly. When I first moved here and bought this land, I had not yet started hunting, and let me tell you, I did NOT have a very high opinion of hunters in general. In general, I still don't. The first two years I was here elk opening day was absolute mayhem near my place, with multiple people shooting from the highway right below my house at first light. Thankfully, the elk don't show themselves in that field anymore. Last winter some *censored* pulled off to the side of the highway, within about 150 yards of the house below mine and started blasting away at the ducks in the wetlands there, at dawn. That would be PRIVATE wetlands, owned by a private individual, fenced on all three sides. Nice. Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.
As you can probably tell, this topic gets my blood pressure up, and makes me want to go to the suburbs where some of these fine "hunters" live, park an RV in their lawn, build a campfire in their flowerbeds, toss a bunch of beer cans and garbage around the place and start shooting the songbirds out of their trees. Most of them still probably wouldn't "get it".
Post by: bankwalker on November 10, 2010, 07:19:02 PM
its different is you are hunting close to private property and your wounded animal made its way onto said private property. then you just have to hope the land owner is a nice person and will let you get your animal.
Post by: Snapshot on November 11, 2010, 08:50:28 AM
It may not be poaching but it is definitly a fine to shot a animal on someone elses property.
Evidently he either shot it on land that was posted "No hunting" or "No hunting without permission", or he was nailied with a license or tag violation. Otherwise I think he would only have been nailed for trespassing like the the other two.
Post by: Snapshot on November 11, 2010, 08:51:56 AM
Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.:yeah:
Post by: tritt007 on November 11, 2010, 11:33:32 AM
This must have been about seven or eight years ago now, but a neighbor of mine with about 40 acres of pasture and forested swamp bordering the highway had guys pull off to the side of the highway, right by their driveway on opening morning because there were elk in the fenced and cross fenced pasture. She walked out of the house and was walking towards them telling them to get lost when they SHOT the elk, right past her as she was walking towards them. She was furious, called the sheriff, deputy showed up and of course, knew the offenders and talked her out of pressing charges. The offenders kept the elk and a few days later a dead salmon was thrown into the property owners' yard for their dog to get into.
Absolutely outrageous, and apparently not that unusual. I've had trespassers, people tearing down my signs, illegal campfires just behind my land on the timber road there, people trespassing my neighbor's adjacent property and shooting at elk at night, within about 300 yards of my house, children and livestock. Last year I just missed catching a guy who drove off of the logging road, past multiple no trespassing signs onto my place, just to do a bunch of donuts in his 4x4 and tear up a piece of flat ground that I had hand manicured with a rake after some machinery had been in there, to keep it draining properly. When I first moved here and bought this land, I had not yet started hunting, and let me tell you, I did NOT have a very high opinion of hunters in general. In general, I still don't. The first two years I was here elk opening day was absolute mayhem near my place, with multiple people shooting from the highway right below my house at first light. Thankfully, the elk don't show themselves in that field anymore. Last winter some *censored* pulled off to the side of the highway, within about 150 yards of the house below mine and started blasting away at the ducks in the wetlands there, at dawn. That would be PRIVATE wetlands, owned by a private individual, fenced on all three sides. Nice. Jerks like this ruin it for everyone, and to the extent that people defend this kind of behavior or make excuses for it, you're just doing more damage to the tradition of safe, sane, respectful hunting.
As you can probably tell, this topic gets my blood pressure up, and makes me want to go to the suburbs where some of these fine "hunters" live, park an RV in their lawn, build a campfire in their flowerbeds, toss a bunch of beer cans and garbage around the place and start shooting the songbirds out of their trees. Most of them still probably wouldn't "get it".
Those arent hunters those are *censored*es
Post by: csaaphill on November 11, 2010, 12:01:26 PM
I've hunted feel free lands many times and still have a lot of bad feed back from the neighbore who has no trespassing. I realise a few bad apples spoil it for all, but hate that and should be different. For those that rip signs down they probably do it out of anger because yet again theres a no hunting sign so while I dont condone it I understand it. So agian to you private land owner maybe do feel free signs or have some kind of regulated hunt and maybe some of these issues may dissapear. :rolleyes:
Post by: woodrat on November 11, 2010, 02:59:23 PM
I know people who have given permission to people that they thought they knew and trusted, only to have them violate game laws on their land. Apparently, something about hunting just makes some people lose all perspective and common decency.
As far as the no hunting/no trespassing signs, I didn't put them up until AFTER I had a bunch of problems, including garbage dumping, shooting at night near my house, etc etc. And at that time, I had livestock, too, and kids living and playing here. You don't like seeing no trespassing signs? Tough luck. I bought this property, I pay taxes on it, I live here and my kids will inherit it. I have every right in the world to keep the general public off of it, and the general public has no right to expect or assume otherwise, let alone tear down my signs.
The vast, vast majority of the acreage in this county is either DNR or corporate land, and is available to hunt on. There is no shortage of land open to hunting. You don't need mine, too.
The next step for me to solve this problem is to simply gate off the forestry road that crosses my land. I have the right, stated in my deed, to do that. I've not done that yet, in deference to letting people pass through on their way to corporate land, but if the abuses continue much longer, that is exactly what I'll do. Then people can b!tch and moan about yet another gated road.
:rolleyes:
Those arent hunters those are *censored*es
Well, they're *censored*es with rifles, hunting licenses (presumably) and orange vests, and they're shooting at elk, so to the general public and local landowners, they all look like hunters just the same.
Post by: mkcj on November 11, 2010, 03:11:07 PM
Post by: woodrat on November 11, 2010, 06:07:07 PM
While I was there, I got to hear multiple stories about people trespassing on his land, most recently just last weekend, someone drove a quad right up one of his driveways and around his locked gate. He went out in his truck and waited for them to come back out, even though he's on oxygen and in poor health, but they apparently went out a different way, because he waited until dark and never saw them. He was P!SSED.
Obviously the trespassing thing is a huge problem for landowners living around here. I would bet that nearly every landowner in these three valleys has had to deal with it at some point. One neighbor apparently sits at the end of his road by the highway with a shotgun on opening weekend to turn people away. Doesn't sound like he is interested in opening his land to everyone and making "new friends"... :chuckle:
Post by: runamuk on November 11, 2010, 06:19:16 PM
I feel no trespassing and poaching is different and should remain that way. I'm glad that some and believe it's a case by case bases that those that shot in private land got to keep the deer elk etc. With so many no hunting signs up etc.. no wonder this happens a lot. Maybe instead put up a feel free to hunt sign, or something might make new friends. :o
I've hunted feel free lands many times and still have a lot of bad feed back from the neighbore who has no trespassing. I realise a few bad apples spoil it for all, but hate that and should be different. For those that rip signs down they probably do it out of anger because yet again theres a no hunting sign so while I dont condone it I understand it. So agian to you private land owner maybe do feel free signs or have some kind of regulated hunt and maybe some of these issues may dissapear. :rolleyes:
obviously you are not or never have been a land owner :dunno: have you ever been shot at on your own property all in the name of hunting? Have you had your animals shot at cuz they thought it was an elk? Have you had people jump out of their truck shoot a couple of ducks flying over your house then realize they just shot over completely fenced land with dogs....yeah I kept the ducks the dumb *censored*s broke several laws that day.....
I love feel free to hunt land and commend any landowner who offers this however I also totally respect the ones who have given up and post their property no hunting.....too many yahoo's with guns and hunting licenses..
however I dont think this needs to be considered poaching unless the animal is actually poached that is a separate offense...trespassing needs to be taken more seriously in general...hunting or otherwise blantant disregard for anothers property is just plain rude for starters.....and really i dont know if a trespasser is harmless or not nowdays with so many freaks and tweaks ....
Post by: TheHunt on November 11, 2010, 06:38:26 PM
Post by: runamuk on November 11, 2010, 06:50:22 PM
Hmmmm. What about people who post public property? Should they loose their hunting privledges and pay a huge fine? I of two places like this.
I think if you falsely post public land you should be fined etc.....
Post by: bigtex on November 11, 2010, 06:58:54 PM
Hmmmm. What about people who post public property? Should they loose their hunting privledges and pay a huge fine? I of two places like this.
I think if you falsely post public land you should be fined etc.....
It's a $271 fine to post land preventing hunting or fishing unless you have the permission of the landowner.
Post by: woodrat on November 11, 2010, 07:06:25 PM
Must have been a non-local, or they would have know that nearly every pickup truck in this county has a chainsaw in the back at all times. Looks like someone just bucked the offending section into cordwood and drove right through. And yeah, I think if they had been caught at that, they should have been fined at the very least. Preferably run out of the county for the rest of the year, but I don't think there are provisions in the law for that.... :dunno:
Post by: bigtex on November 11, 2010, 07:22:00 PM
saw on opening weekend this year where some yahoos thought they would block a logging road by falling a tree across it, and create their own multi thousand acre private hunting reserve... :o
Must have been a non-local, or they would have know that nearly every pickup truck in this county has a chainsaw in the back at all times. Looks like someone just bucked the offending section into cordwood and drove right through. And yeah, I think if they had been caught at that, they should have been fined at the very least. Preferably run out of the county for the rest of the year, but I don't think there are provisions in the law for that.... :dunno:
Well in that situation both people who cut the tree could be in trouble. In most areas you can't cut both live and fallen trees. It's different if your stuck behind a tree, such as your in a wind storm and a tree fell on the road. But if somebody cut a tree down to block the road then you try and remove it you could be in the same amount of trouble as them.
Post by: csaaphill on November 12, 2010, 02:44:35 PM
Post by: woodrat on November 12, 2010, 04:04:57 PM
It depends entirely on who's doing the asking, but I think unless I knew someone, the answer would probably be no unless I was really impressed. There's just no way to know until it's too late what kind of a jerk someone is capable of being. There's a lot of strange people out there, and I don't really want them wandering around on my land with high powered rifles. Besides, I like my privacy. That's part of why I live out in the middle of nowhere, and put up with flooded roads, frequent power outages, lack of services and no amenities like nice libraries, good restaurants, movie theaters, etc. When I went to my neighbor's place, who I've lived a quarter mile away from for 10 years, and who crosses my land to get to his water line and spring, he still didn't say yes right away, and the yes that I eventually got was conditional. No deer or bear hunting, only elk.
Basically, you're asking to come into my home, or at least into my yard. Don't be surprised when people don't want to let strangers with rifles into their homes and yards. And if you're jealous of how big my yard is, or how many deer and elk you think might be on it, well, go buy yourself a big yard, too.
Post by: csaaphill on November 14, 2010, 07:21:15 PM
Post by: 7mag. on November 14, 2010, 09:33:21 PM
Post by: csaaphill on November 15, 2010, 08:03:54 PM
I think they are stupid or somethings wrong with em if they can't tell a Deer, Elk and a cow!
Post by: ellensburgpo on November 16, 2010, 06:24:32 AM
Just my two cents
Post by: huntlakewood on November 16, 2010, 07:05:10 AM
If you knowingly trespass, to shoot an animal, it is exactly the same as poaching. It's just like shooting an animal in a closed unit. Too many "hunters" ignore private property, and they should be punished harshly.:yeah:
It just comes down to respect and there are alot of hunters that do not have respect. THat is why most land onwers will not let you hunt there land. Land owners work hard for what they have and don't want there land mistreated by any one. I got permission to hunt some private land this year and got a 2 point drove right down to the guys house and asked him what he drank. I had a bottle at his house the following weekend and I am going to bring him some summer sausage when it is done. I think just for me holding my word even something as small as a bottle made him happy.
Post by: Special T on November 16, 2010, 07:24:39 AM
The second is i have tried to get written permission to hunt on certain peoples property....ALL I CAN GET IS VERBAL! Many land owners are worried about liability and don't want a piece of paper tagging them to you... So when i get jumped by the neighbor demanding to see my written permission where am i left?
I think the system isn't perfect but i'm satisfied with the way it is. :twocents:
Post by: csaaphill on November 16, 2010, 08:28:07 PM
I have 2 different scenarios for you... Fist if you hare hunting corporate or DNR land, cross county and stumble on some ones 40-80-100 acre patch should you be treated the same as a road shooter? or someone who wheels across the property?well my hope is for the WDFW to start their land access program and hope It opens up some land where I hunt.
The second is i have tried to get written permission to hunt on certain peoples property....ALL I CAN GET IS VERBAL! Many land owners are worried about liability and don't want a piece of paper tagging them to you... So when i get jumped by the neighbor demanding to see my written permission where am i left?
I think the system isn't perfect but i'm satisfied with the way it is. :twocents:
I guess tell the guy you have premision but not written and to go ask the farmer if this is true or not, better yet offer to go with the guy to the owner that way he can't say your lying. Luckly for me in my permissions I got the written permission or at least used to and still would if I went there more than likely. The one land I used to get permission from which is a cousin to the other landowner is dead and so I don't think I could now but may stop in agian.
Post by: money794 on November 27, 2010, 10:55:47 PM
Post by: 7ultra on November 28, 2010, 08:18:26 PM
Post by: engelwood on November 28, 2010, 10:54:02 PM
Post by: liljozie495 on November 29, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
someone inform me on this post if they did hear about a enumclaw bull taken recently...(like over the past weekend recently)
thanks
Post by: BigZum on November 29, 2010, 10:50:51 PM
Misdemeanors are punishable by 90 days in jail and $1,000 dollar fine, a gross misdemeanor is punishable by 1 year in jail and a $5,000 dollar fine. PUBLIC RECORDS show that the individual who shot the Bull Elk in the City limits of Buckley on private property was charged with all three crimes. Fact 5) No game violation was committed, many laws where broken, but game laws where not one of them. Those are the laws that Officers and Game Agents have to deal with on a regular basis. Remember they do not make the laws they enforce them. Folks like your selves lobbying in Olympia is the only way laws get passed so something can be done further in situations like this post. Until then this topic will keep coming up year after year it will just be in a different town. Simply put the laws need to be stiffer with a bigger bite.That's my :twocents: for whats its worth.
Post by: deleted BGS on November 30, 2010, 05:01:21 PM
I have talked about this subject for many years around the campfire up hunting. Some of those hunters were police, a couple of CPA's, 1 IRS agent and 4hvac techs like myself!
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
Ya somethin like that happened this year in Buckley. I had been archery elk hunting in enumclaw on private property then around Buckley a little. I drove out around the state school and spotted a heavy 6 dark horn,nice bull. Knowing its the city limits, i had to just watch it. Then about a month later some guy shoots it with a muzzy? Even though the area is not well posted, you shouldnt shoot into an area you are not sure of. THe cops and game warden came escorted him to his bull, helped him load it, then fined him. He kept the bull and made the paper?? My buddy shot a bull in enumclaw with an arrow and it ran onto private land. He talked to the owner and he told him to f- off. SO he called the warden, and he was allowed to look for his bull. People are idiots and would rather no one find the injured/dead bull than hunters go on their property.
Post by: deleted BGS on November 30, 2010, 06:30:57 PM
i live in buckley k the guy i heard he had permission to shoot an elk and he kept the animal
The guy did not have permission to hunt. Plus its in the city limits! You cannot shoot a gun in the city limits. he got a tresspassing fine
Post by: Wenatcheejay on December 01, 2010, 08:48:49 AM
My personal opinion is life is easier when we follow the rules. Many landowners need our help to protect their land. Tresspassers often do a lot of damage. They cut fences, leave trash, I know a guy who has a bullet hole in his house. Sure, I know the landowners who think that Game belongs to them because it is on his/her property. But, I know more landowners who have been burned by people who have no respect for private property.
My :twocents: to people is, "Please don't tresspass. It does so much damage to the reputation of us lawful, respectful hunters."
Post by: BigZum on December 01, 2010, 10:53:26 AM
Post by: liljozie495 on December 01, 2010, 09:19:42 PM
Post by: rosie673 on December 02, 2010, 08:44:03 AM
Post by: bigtex on December 02, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
The ruling seems to be different down here where I am from. When people trespass and get caught it depends on if the land owner has a valid tag or wishes to give it to a person in their family whether or not the trespasser keeps the elk or deer. If the land owner does not want the animal, then the violater gets to keep the animal and is charged only with a fine. I can recall 3 different scenarios where this has happened in the last 3 years around here and have heard the same comment come from the local wardens mouth.
Ya that is a lot different then Washington state law. Where are you from Rosie?
Post by: rose673 on December 02, 2010, 09:51:51 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2010, 10:04:25 PM
Post by: rose673 on December 02, 2010, 10:15:07 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 02, 2010, 10:20:11 PM
Why would the landowner be allowed to tag an animal that a trespasser shot? That makes no sense. The landowner did not shoot it, so that's a violation of the law in itself. (tagging an animal that you didn't kill)
I was kind of thinking the same thing, but if someone shoots an elk on private property and gets caught tresspassing before they have had a chance to retrieve the animal, doesn't the landowner have the right to refuse access for retrieving the game? In that case I wouldn't be surprised if a game cop allowed the landowner to keep and tag the animal as opposed to letting it go to waste since the hunter isn't able to retrieve it...I've never personally witnessed it before, but I've heard of gamies doing that with poached animals before.
Anyone else?
Post by: bobcat on December 02, 2010, 10:24:30 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 02, 2010, 10:36:07 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on December 03, 2010, 08:28:40 AM
Seems really odd...animals don't have a clue about jurisdictional boundaries, but we dwell on them. I give those gamies some serious credit if they have the courage to ignore the written law when it doesn't make any sense (refering to letting someone tag an animal instead of letting it go to waste).
That is one reason for wolves IMO. They don't respect "No Hunting" signs.
Post by: csaaphill on October 08, 2012, 09:30:45 AM
Post by: TheHunt on October 08, 2012, 10:43:37 AM
Then he said good for you... Get the hell off my property.
Police came helped him load the elk and there were so many pieces of antler he had to pay a pretty penny to get it all back into place. Could not enter it into BC or PY as it was destroyed. Pretty much make it a real pain in the ass for the person who shot it on your property.
The dude flipped out as well. The police kind of laugh at it. And said word will get out not to shoot there as you will get the elk but the rack will come in a bag with no instructions on how to put it back together.
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on October 08, 2012, 11:40:32 AM
You shoot a deer on public land, it runs onto private and dies.
Landowner says you cannot access his property.
What can you do?
Post by: dlaw on October 08, 2012, 11:41:34 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on October 08, 2012, 11:55:12 AM
Post by: TheHunt on October 08, 2012, 12:50:28 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 08, 2012, 03:38:55 PM
I'd tell the guy "What elk? I don't see an elk?"
Then I'd tell the police "What elk? I don't see an elk?"
4th amendment.
Thanks,
Curtis
Post by: csaaphill on October 08, 2012, 08:36:02 PM
and felony for whom didn't understand your statement for them to bring one into this state?
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 08, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
So 4th amendment is what I was saying. They can call the cops all they want but they arent coming on my property without a warrant.
And if the poacher trespasses with a firearm, I thought it was considered a felony. maybe im wrong but I thought Washington had passed that law like 10 years ago.
Post by: csaaphill on October 08, 2012, 09:12:08 PM
Post by: Sneaky on October 08, 2012, 09:16:04 PM
I have talked about this subject for many years around the campfire up hunting. Some of those hunters were police, a couple of CPA's, 1 IRS agent and 4hvac techs like myself!
If you shoot animal on private property and that animal is in season, and you have a tag and licence, the only law broken was the trespassing! And every person mentioned above has said it should also be "considered by LAW" a form of poaching when an animal is downed on "private" land. The actor,first offence for the tresspass will get little to no punishment, and still keeps the animal!
I know a guy who shot a deer in a farmers field off of 20 by twisp. The cops came wrote him a must appear tresspass charge, and then HELPED him load the deer into his truck.
Why is this not considered a form of poaching?
Why does "i didn't see the no trespass sign" get you off of the trespass charge?
Your thoughts!
The above was all prior to the new "hunting while trespassing" law. Under the new law, hunting while trespassing renders nearly everything used in the commission of the crime to forfeiture, in addition to fines and suspension of hunting rights. This law was created to address the above issue.
Post by: Swatson on October 08, 2012, 09:37:06 PM
Post by: bloodhound on October 08, 2012, 10:46:03 PM
Post by: csaaphill on October 08, 2012, 10:52:07 PM
Post by: Whitpirate on October 08, 2012, 11:14:54 PM
i think it should be poaching to shoot an animal on private property that you dont have permission to hunt. here is why. consider i am property owner who has invested thousands of dollars in food plots to grow good harvest-able deer. then some one comes on my property and shoots one. now im out part of my property investment. now change the item. lets say its not a deer but a prize winning fair pumpkin that im growing and some one comes on my property and harvests my pumpkin. now they are both natural things to this earth blah blah. what that person did was steal from the property owner. as the law states possession is 9/10 of the law. if there is a deer on my land and some one kills and takes it from my land without my permission he has stolen it, and should be treated as they illegally harvested an animal.
Not quite.... the pumpkin you plant from seed and retain 100% ownership. No wildlife (deer) can be owned in this state by you. You have the right to post it out but it isn't "your" deer. It is "our" deer as a member of the public.
Post by: csaaphill on October 08, 2012, 11:51:34 PM
Post by: deerhunterdes13 on October 09, 2012, 05:55:02 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 09, 2012, 07:04:59 AM
Is it trespassing if only my pup goes into their property?
Can we just start sending our pups in to get the elk out?
:tinfoil: