Post by: gravestaxidermy on November 19, 2010, 09:27:23 PM
Post by: bigpaw 77 on November 19, 2010, 09:34:12 PM
Post by: Tman on November 19, 2010, 09:37:32 PM
Post by: high country on November 19, 2010, 09:46:19 PM
Post by: bornforhorns on November 19, 2010, 09:55:11 PM
Post by: spookgus on November 19, 2010, 10:10:22 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 19, 2010, 10:35:48 PM
I think it is a good thing. The deer have really taken a hit in the last 3 years. I know at my house we had over 3 feet of snow on the ground two winters ago, the deer had no where to go and nothing to eat. Most of the smaller 3 points killed are younger deer. If it goes to 4 point min, we will be seeing a lot more mature deer in the next couple of years. But it does suck for the guys that rely on getting a deer every year for the winters meat, because the harvest rate will be lower for a few years.
Sounds like a habitat issue more than a harvest issue. I am not familiar with the area but if they are going hungry they need more food or fewer deer....
Post by: AKBowman on November 19, 2010, 10:39:11 PM
I like the change myself but that of course IMO
Post by: G.R.K on November 19, 2010, 10:54:30 PM
Post by: gravestaxidermy on November 19, 2010, 11:04:32 PM
Post by: AKBowman on November 19, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
3 point or better state wide.
West side and east side are like two completely different worlds. You could take the most heavily hunted unit in western wa, take the most heavily hunted square mile in that unit and take a handful of huge mature bucks that no hunter will ever lay eyes on b/c of cover and...not to sound too biased...but because how smart/typical habits of the BT bucks are no hunter will ever see. There is not a lack of mature bucks on the wet side. The east side where optics and modern firearm capabilities can be taken advantage of there is a problem.
I will say this...I know at this time it is only NW WA (documented, but it will soon spread) the problem is with wolves. You think it is bad now wait until wlves spread into your hunting area...good luck on finding a buck at all and the health of the deer/elk that are still alive will diminish significantly form the constant stress of avoiding the wolves.
Post by: huntnnw on November 19, 2010, 11:38:58 PM
Post by: PolarBear on November 19, 2010, 11:58:43 PM
Post by: huntnnw on November 20, 2010, 12:28:02 AM
Post by: PolarBear on November 20, 2010, 12:34:39 AM
Post by: CountryslickR on November 20, 2010, 01:59:19 AM
I am in......as long as the clock does the same on bulls.
Im guessing you've never gotten drawn???? :chuckle:
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on November 20, 2010, 07:54:25 AM
Post by: Hunterman on November 20, 2010, 08:02:18 AM
This state sucks..
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: tshoote30 on November 20, 2010, 08:03:42 AM
I think this state should go to 4 points or better on EVERYTHING, Turkeys need to have a 6" beard, and 2" spurs,, ,and you must make 250,000.00 or better to hunt, and have 3 years of law school..
This state sucks..
Hunterman(Tony)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I am screwed if that happens :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: dscubame on November 20, 2010, 08:07:33 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on November 20, 2010, 08:11:00 AM
Post by: bigpaw 77 on November 20, 2010, 08:33:48 AM
There is no issue with their habitat, they have plenty of habitat. What I was saying is in the NE part of the state we have had 2 out of the last 3 winters that were BAD. Over 3 feet of snow on the ground, whitetails are not browsers like mule deer, They will browse for survival, but if you have 3 or more feet of snow in the lowlands the deer cant even get around to try to survive.I think it is a good thing. The deer have really taken a hit in the last 3 years. I know at my house we had over 3 feet of snow on the ground two winters ago, the deer had no where to go and nothing to eat. Most of the smaller 3 points killed are younger deer. If it goes to 4 point min, we will be seeing a lot more mature deer in the next couple of years. But it does suck for the guys that rely on getting a deer every year for the winters meat, because the harvest rate will be lower for a few years.
Sounds like a habitat issue more than a harvest issue. I am not familiar with the area but if they are going hungry they need more food or fewer deer....
Post by: Whitelightning on November 20, 2010, 08:37:32 AM
love it!! has nothing to do with seeing anything now, just a couple years and u will see the benefit and lots of branch antlered bucks. I just dont get the guys who bitch about it and are blasting spikes and forks, go get a damn doe tag if thats what your shooting, its quite obvious your not hunting for the challenge of the hunt.
Really! Some of use hunt for the challenge and for the meat you a$$hat >:( If all you hunt for is the trophy maybe you should go find a fence to hunt behind :bash:
Post by: Whitelightning on November 20, 2010, 08:59:14 AM
As far as the deer and elk count in the NE I agree it is from two sources. One the last two late heavy snow falls and the ever increasing Wolf population. If we go Four point or better in the corner I agree this state will never revert back. Is this necessary now? probably but will it need to stay for ever? only if the Wolf stays :twocents:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 20, 2010, 09:01:07 AM
Post by: PolarBear on November 20, 2010, 09:05:39 AM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on November 20, 2010, 09:10:52 AM
Post by: runamuk on November 20, 2010, 09:28:03 AM
I think this state should go to 4 points or better on EVERYTHING, Turkeys need to have a 6" beard, and 2" spurs,, ,and you must make 250,000.00 or better to hunt, and have 3 years of law school..
This state sucks..
Hunterman(Tony)
I agree Tony this is the way its going and still this isn't management it has to do with money....
Hey I know require a percentage of your annual income in the form of a surcharge to use public lands yeah there you go...except continue to allow illegals to rape and pillage and plunder the resource.... then they could build even more tunnels and feed more aliens and house more illegals in our prisons....yeah thats what they should do :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: bullcanyon on November 20, 2010, 09:49:14 AM
Post by: Tman on November 20, 2010, 09:54:27 AM
love it!! has nothing to do with seeing anything now, just a couple years and u will see the benefit and lots of branch antlered bucks. I just dont get the guys who bitch about it and are blasting spikes and forks, go get a damn doe tag if thats what your shooting, its quite obvious your not hunting for the challenge of the hunt.
The size of the buck has little to do with the challenge of the hunt.. and by the way, who the hell do you think you are to judge someone who wants some meat in the freezer? :mor:
Post by: coachcw on November 20, 2010, 10:13:46 AM
Post by: deerslyr on November 20, 2010, 10:22:10 AM
Post by: Tman on November 20, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
I also know several hunters that spend quite a bit for the hunt regardless of what kind of buck they tag. They do it for the fun, to get out and enjoy our outdoors.. You don't have to shoot a trophy buck to say "I worked hard for my animal", a forkie in your eyes may be meat, but a forkie in the eyes of another hunter may be a trophy.. :twocents:
Post by: Curly on November 20, 2010, 11:54:18 AM
Okay, let's make 101 and 204 4 point or better and spike whitetail only, eliminate doe permits and put gates on all forrest service roads within those units. Leave some of the other units to the "meat hunters". I added spike whities into the mix to appease some of the "meat" hunters and because research has shown that on average, a first year spike usually will not have the genetics to grow to true "trophy" potential.
Good ideas there.
I especially don't like the WDFW allowing general season archery for does. If the deer population is hurting, why allow any does to be shot ??? One of the commissioners actually questioned the biologist at a meeting I went to last year about allowing does and the bio said something about wanting to provide "opportunity". He used the word opportunity a lot and I figured it was really just a code word for "more money" to the WDFW..........
Post by: bobcat on November 20, 2010, 12:07:13 PM
I think the reallity of a guy hunting to feed his familly in this day and agr is bs. the amount of time and money that we averege hunts spend on deer hunting annually would buy a hell of alot of beef. I would like to see a draw only system in our state . I think this would inhance the hunting and would be a possitive experiance for familly hunts when drawn , maybe more hunters would take it more serioussly and weed out some of the weekend drinkers and road hunters. :twocents:
:yeah:
And as for the idea of the WDFW gating the roads in several units and managing them for trophy hunters... the WDFW does not have the authority to gate roads that they do not own. They can't force the Forest Service to gate National Forest roads, or the DNR to gate state roads, or private timber companies to gate their roads. The best solution to this state's terrible deer hunting is to do away with the general seasons. Many people would still be able to hunt every year, if you applied for the less popular units.
Post by: stumprat on November 20, 2010, 01:28:49 PM
love it!! has nothing to do with seeing anything now, just a couple years and u will see the benefit and lots of branch antlered bucks. I just dont get the guys who bitch about it and are blasting spikes and forks, go get a damn doe tag if thats what your shooting, its quite obvious your not hunting for the challenge of the hunt.
So now a challenging hunt is measured in inches :DOH:
If that is your preferance then best of luck to you. But why belittle others. For some a spike or forked horn can be a challenge. And rewarding.
Post by: Whitelightning on November 20, 2010, 02:29:31 PM
Anyone who thinks in this day and age that we don't have families that a Deer in the freezer wont make a HUGE difference to a family is so far out of touch with reality that well, maybe you should get off the high horse and take a look around!!!!!
Post by: bobcat on November 20, 2010, 03:28:49 PM
Post by: deerslyr on November 20, 2010, 03:35:53 PM
Post by: high country on November 20, 2010, 04:03:29 PM
Okay, let's make 101 and 204 4 point or better and spike whitetail only, eliminate doe permits and put gates on all forrest service roads within those units. Leave some of the other units to the "meat hunters". I added spike whities into the mix to appease some of the "meat" hunters and because research has shown that on average, a first year spike usually will not have the genetics to grow to true "trophy" potential.
ferry county is the poorest and arguably toughest to live in counties in this state.....doubt it will happen. there are lots of folks there that NEED to whack a few deer to get by. logging is done and there is not a mc donalds in the county to earn minimum wage at.
Post by: colockumelk on November 20, 2010, 04:36:40 PM
Why dont they make a 5 or 6 units OTC trophy units that are 4 point min. for whitetails and mulies and limit access by gating a good percentage of the roads and eliminating doe tags. Then making the majority of the other units any buck like they already are (but I still beleive they need to limit doe tags) for the average joe to hunt. All of the hard core trophy hunters will go to the 4 point or better units enjoying hunting mature animals and seeing less people while everyone else who just wants to shoot a buck can go to the majority of the other units that would be any buck. I think this would be the best way to do things for the greater good of the majority of hunters. Some of the average joes might be pissed about there normal stomping grounds being turned to 4 point min. but there will be alot more units that would be open to any buck.
:yeah:
My thoughts exactly.
Post by: PolarBear on November 20, 2010, 05:03:16 PM
They reopened the mine. Most of the residents don't hunt during regular seasons to begin with.Okay, let's make 101 and 204 4 point or better and spike whitetail only, eliminate doe permits and put gates on all forrest service roads within those units. Leave some of the other units to the "meat hunters". I added spike whities into the mix to appease some of the "meat" hunters and because research has shown that on average, a first year spike usually will not have the genetics to grow to true "trophy" potential.
ferry county is the poorest and arguably toughest to live in counties in this state.....doubt it will happen. there are lots of folks there that NEED to whack a few deer to get by. logging is done and there is not a mc donalds in the county to earn minimum wage at.
Post by: coachcw on November 20, 2010, 06:15:50 PM
Post by: runamuk on November 20, 2010, 06:24:39 PM
If your out hunting to feed your familly maybe you should be working harder to provide for them , but I guess work is for beer and smokes . The idea of hunting to feed your familly is crap if you really need one deer to survive the winter your a dead beat .
wow I had no idea people on here were so cruel...and so elitist ....
making me sadder and sadder ..... just like my last favorite forum it just became a nasty place and lost all the fun....oh well guess hunting is meant only for the rich elitists who have perfect lives and the rest of us should just stay home.....
Post by: coachcw on November 20, 2010, 06:46:42 PM
Post by: C-Money on November 20, 2010, 06:52:36 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 20, 2010, 07:01:54 PM
Post by: high country on November 20, 2010, 08:17:11 PM
Post by: bullcanyon on November 20, 2010, 08:27:13 PM
Post by: PolarBear on November 20, 2010, 08:31:54 PM
Very few of us hunt to "feed" the family. We enjoy it. Love it. Very seldom does it cost less than beef in the long run. Ya ya, there are a few that harvest an animal off the porch and spend pennies on the dollar to fill the tag. That is not the norm. Just like fishing. You could save money going to winco or whatever. So those that claim they hunt to survive. They are full of crap. Take the money you put into one tank of fuel and go shopping for the family. And we all know that it won't be just one tank of fuel. Heck, I can probably feed the family just on my scouting money. Don't tell the wife I said that.:yeah:
Post by: high country on November 20, 2010, 08:36:13 PM
Post by: Tman on November 20, 2010, 09:22:51 PM
:yeah:If your out hunting to feed your familly maybe you should be working harder to provide for them , but I guess work is for beer and smokes . The idea of hunting to feed your familly is crap if you really need one deer to survive the winter your a dead beat .
wow I had no idea people on here were so cruel...and so elitist ....
making me sadder and sadder ..... just like my last favorite forum it just became a nasty place and lost all the fun....oh well guess hunting is meant only for the rich elitists who have perfect lives and the rest of us should just stay home.....
Post by: bigpaw 77 on November 20, 2010, 09:33:42 PM
If your out hunting to feed your familly maybe you should be working harder to provide for them , but I guess work is for beer and smokes . The idea of hunting to feed your familly is crap if you really need one deer to survive the winter your a dead beat .Wow. who the hell are you to judge and generalize everyone that needs a deer to help there family get through the winter. Not everyone can afford to buy meat and how exactally does that make them a dead beat. There are tons of unemployed hard workers out there right now that cant get a job.
Post by: Birdguy on November 20, 2010, 09:42:51 PM
The deer survival rate is dropping, partly to habitat loss, partly to winter conditions, and partly to predators. Perhaps I am wrong but I do not think that hunting by legal sportsman really effect game numbers. Yes, deer numbers are affected by hunting but not enough to turn the tide. If that is the case then lets close all deer hunting on the east side for a year and the problem will be fixed providing we have a good winter. We need to look at the coyote, cougar, bear, and wolf issue. If the WDFW said they were going to make the area a 4 point or better area and then REMOVE the predators I would be all for it. Last I checked Pennsylvania did not have many cougars or wolves eating their deer. We have owned property in 204 for 30 years, it amazes me the amount of development over there. I spent the whole season over there this fall and came home empty handed. I logged the hours in the field and in the stand, it just was not my year. I passed on some smaller bucks this year as I was thinking I would get a better shot, I was really hoping my Nephew (first year hunter) or my Dad (disabled guy who can not leave the cabin) would get the chance at those bucks. I will be bummed if when my kids are ready to hunt I can not get them a deer because it lacks the number of points to be able to shoot. Each year there are more houses and more predators. We have hunted in Colville and Chewelah for 6 years and I see the same things over there.
The WDFW will continue to put band aids on our game management issues until we all have so many issues that we all lose. I hope my kids get the chance to take a spike, and they decide if it is their trophy or not.
Post by: Hangfire on November 20, 2010, 10:51:39 PM
After the stake holder meetings a series of public meetings were held in Colville, Spokane and other locations. I attended the Spokane meeting. Most attending at the Spokane meeting were opposed. I heard most attending at the Colville meeting were in favor. Neither place had total people feeling one way or the other.
I ask the stakeholder members at the Spokane meeting where the information came from that said there would be increased reproduction. They couldn't directly answer and finally said they think they had seen some thing from New York. I talked to a biologist about deer harvest. He told me the total deer harvest would ultimately be composed of larger bucks but the total buck harvest would be lower, much lower even after things had stabilized.He also said there is not normally a problem with does being bred.
A certain percent of deer would not be taken the first 1.5 years of there life. Most 3 points, 2 points and spikes are 1.5 years old. That does not mean they will be there to harvest as 2.5 year old's or older. A number of these deer will die from assorted reasons between 1.5 years and the next one or two years. There will be car kills, winter kills, poaching, predator loss and those shot and left in the woods by honest hunters who miss identified the deer.
The two regions proposed are two of the most productive units for whitetail, so this has a big impact. WDFW people that I talked to said they could maybe agree with two smaller units like 105, 111 or 108 as a trial. It is the commissioners that will make the decision.
I am against it but, do see the need for a number a changes to the white tail management. I also feel the stakeholders need to be applauded for getting involved and not just setting around complaining. I just do not agree with this proposal, unless some one has some proof of deer herd benefit.
Post by: huntnnw on November 21, 2010, 01:03:29 AM
wtf does this even mean?? learn to type and read dude and WTF does a fence and challenge even doing int he same fence, your ignorant
Post by: huntnnw on November 21, 2010, 01:08:14 AM
tman do you read?, "the guys who bitch about it" and where did I judge anyone?,u take this personal? I cannot stand to hear hunters bitch year in and year out about never getting big bucks, but they shoot the first buck they see. so I take it your one of them :chuckle: ah yeah it does, hunting 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 yr old deer is whole different game than hunting 4 1/2 yr and older deer, whole different ball game, get a doe tag if ya want meat in the freezer.
Post by: Tman on November 21, 2010, 06:56:55 AM
The bucks i've shot are well worth shooting, however, in the late season, I would be glad to shoot a smaller buck to fill my tag.. Your welcome to look through my posts. But I am not to prideful to shoot a smaller buck to fill my freezer, and even a doe if I had a tag. I don't necessarily need the meat, but there are many who do. Also, good deer management involves quite a bit more than just shooting what you would consider a "trophy".
Post by: coachcw on November 22, 2010, 06:32:58 AM
Post by: Eildydar on November 22, 2010, 10:23:29 AM
"Really! Some of use hunt for the challenge and for the meat you a$$hat If all you hunt for is the trophy maybe you should go find a fence to hunt behind"Please, for YOUR own sake, do not call people ignorant about their spelling/grammar when YOURS is horrible! YOU'RE ignorant if you think the only way to have an enjoyable and challenging hunt is to bag a 150" deer.
wtf does this even mean?? learn to type and read dude and WTF does a fence and challenge even doing int he same fence, your ignorant
Post by: dscubame on November 22, 2010, 01:48:28 PM
I hunt because I love to and because I have a motto to uphold...."beef free since 1993".
Absolutely love it.
Been saying similiar since 2003 when I started knocking down elk every year. Myself, wife, and two daughters have been fortunate. Thanks for the new motto.
Dscubame
Post by: Viszla on November 22, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 22, 2010, 01:58:14 PM
Think about not having the pumpkin patch syndrome.
Anything that makes hunting harder, more expensive, lower opportunity to harvest, and less enjoyable of an experience, the State will be all for. And, so many hunters in this State will cheer all the way to no longer having OTC tags. (At least OTC tags with any real chance to use them.)
The State has done such a beautiful job of pitting one group of hunters against the other, shave a few season days here, close a unit there, No one cares about traps, baits, hounds, cut, cut, cut, less opportunity, less opportunity. Sure, makes great sense. That is IF you are AGAINST hunting.
Post by: coachcw on November 22, 2010, 02:02:25 PM
Post by: arnoldmc1 on November 22, 2010, 04:10:45 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 22, 2010, 09:50:51 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 22, 2010, 10:15:33 PM
Good idea we are looking at another year of hard hard winter. Lived in Spokane for 40 years hunted the area all the time. But our winters are taking a toll on the dear heards got to do something!!
I think we need more wolves for a healthier ecosystem. The wolves only take out the old and the weak. The same people who say that limiting hunting to a 4 point rule say that wolves are good for the program so it must be true. :stirthepot:
Post by: high country on November 23, 2010, 07:25:28 AM
We just need to go to DRAW for all tags.well the big game combo went from 78 to 128 and it did nothing to deter the number of hunters. the fact is if they double it again there will still be more then halfthe hunters involved....netting a profit still, the cost has seemingly little to do with buying tags....untill it gets criminally expensive
Think about not having the pumpkin patch syndrome.
Anything that makes hunting harder, more expensive, lower opportunity to harvest, and less enjoyable of an experience, the State will be all for. And, so many hunters in this State will cheer all the way to no longer having OTC tags. (At least OTC tags with any real chance to use them.)
The State has done such a beautiful job of pitting one group of hunters against the other, shave a few season days here, close a unit there, No one cares about traps, baits, hounds, cut, cut, cut, less opportunity, less opportunity. Sure, makes great sense. That is IF you are AGAINST hunting.
Post by: 400out on November 23, 2010, 07:32:18 AM
I'm game for it.ofcourse you are :chuckle: If the weather keeps going this way we wont have to worry about hunting at all! the deer/elk will all be victims of the winter :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on November 23, 2010, 07:48:51 AM
well the big game combo went from 78 to 128
What license are you talking about that is $128 ??? The deer-elk-bear-cougar combo is $81.20. (or was, not sure what it will be next year but I don't think it's going up by $50)
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on November 23, 2010, 08:14:57 AM
I'm game for it.Me too. Let's try it in the two proposed units and see the results. It's a three year pilot program and would show us success through more intensive surveys that are currently being planned by the WDFW. It's good for the herd and it's worth a shot. It's just two units, not all of NE washington.
Post by: high country on November 23, 2010, 08:18:14 AM
well the big game combo went from 78 to 128
What license are you talking about that is $128 ??? The deer-elk-bear-cougar combo is $81.20. (or was, not sure what it will be next year but I don't think it's going up by $50)
I buy it all at once....hunting and fishing plus the tags. that was the jump it made for me when the last big jump hit.
Post by: bobcat on November 23, 2010, 08:20:59 AM
Post by: dscubame on November 23, 2010, 11:08:48 AM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on November 23, 2010, 04:24:11 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 23, 2010, 05:14:08 PM
I thunk it's a great idea. I would also like to see the whole west side go to 2 point min. It would definitely make for some great hunting.
I'd like to see a two point min. as well. You get at least 10 pounds more meat off a fork than a spike.....
Post by: billythekidrock on November 23, 2010, 05:17:13 PM
I thunk it's a great idea. I would also like to see the whole west side go to 2 point min. It would definitely make for some great hunting.
I'd like to see a two point min. as well. You get at least 10 pounds more meat off a fork than a spike.....
I would be up for two point or better if they allowed youth and seniors to take spikes.
Post by: bucklucky on November 23, 2010, 05:31:13 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 23, 2010, 05:51:50 PM
I thunk it's a great idea. I would also like to see the whole west side go to 2 point min. It would definitely make for some great hunting.
I'd like to see a two point min. as well. You get at least 10 pounds more meat off a fork than a spike.....
I would be up for two point or better if they allowed youth and seniors to take spikes.
After the second year there would be just as many forks as there were spikes the year before, people could suck it up for a year.... If this is an issue of not enough bucks then at least do the fork minimum in either sex units like 410 since there is no more meat on a spike than on a doe, on average.
Post by: billythekidrock on November 25, 2010, 06:16:52 AM
I thunk it's a great idea. I would also like to see the whole west side go to 2 point min. It would definitely make for some great hunting.
I'd like to see a two point min. as well. You get at least 10 pounds more meat off a fork than a spike.....
I would be up for two point or better if they allowed youth and seniors to take spikes.
After the second year there would be just as many forks as there were spikes the year before, people could suck it up for a year.... If this is an issue of not enough bucks then at least do the fork minimum in either sex units like 410 since there is no more meat on a spike than on a doe, on average.
I would like to see the younger (and older) hunters have the opportunity to be successful and often times that means tagging a spike.
There may be more forks the second year, but not as many as spikes the year before. You can't stockpile game as many will die from various causes.