Post by: E-Town Hunter on April 09, 2008, 05:03:34 PM
Has anyone heard what day this week they are holding the new drawing? The other thing that is a bunch of crap is the small handful of people that already paid for their permits after seeing that they were drawn in the first drawing are still being allowed to purchase the tags. I don't feel that is right. >:(
Post by: billythekidrock on April 09, 2008, 05:24:03 PM
WDFW will conduct a new drawing
for multiple-season hunting permits
OLYMPIA - The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) will hold a new drawing for 2008 multiple-season hunting permits after invalidating a drawing conducted last week due to a technical error.
The new drawing for 1,500 multiple-season deer permits and 500 multiple-season elk permits will be completed by Friday, April 11. Approximately 8,500 people purchased applications for the drawing.
Winners of the new drawing will be eligible to purchase special permits allowing them to participate in multiple general hunting seasons - including archery, muzzleloader and modern-firearm hunts - rather than just a single type of season.
WDFW Director Jeff Koenings said the department will initiate a new validation process - involving additional agency managers and a citizen representative - to provide broader oversight over future drawings and ensure the results are valid.
"We all agree that the problems we have experienced with permit drawings are unacceptable," Koenings said. "Our customers deserve better, and we are dedicated to putting a new system in place that will ensure accurate and transparent results the first time."
Dave Ware, WDFW game manager, said the initial drawing was invalidated because groups of hunters were allowed to apply for the permits. Group applications are allowed for most special-permit hunts, but participation in multiple-season permit drawings is limited to individuals under state regulations.
"Including those group applications changed the results of the initial drawing, so we need to redraw to ensure a fair outcome," Ware said. "We apologize to any hunters who were inconvenienced or disappointed by the invalidation of the first drawing."
Although WDFW did not formally announce the results of the initial drawing, results of that draw were reflected in hunters' online accounts with the department, Ware said. Some department personnel also advised hunters about the results of the initial drawing before realizing it was invalidated, Ware said.
About a half-dozen hunters who purchased permits based on that information will be allowed to use them this season, Ware said.
Post by: Wea300mag on April 09, 2008, 05:26:30 PM
That's good info for the future.
Post by: billythekidrock on April 09, 2008, 05:31:05 PM
Quote
About a half-dozen hunters who purchased permits based on that information will be allowed to use them this season, Ware said.
What a crock!
Why do they get to keep the permit if it wasn't valid? Is it because it would be too hard to get the money back? It only costs the state about $50 bucks to cut a warrant.
Post by: SuperDave on April 09, 2008, 05:35:32 PM
Those who were drawn should have hurried and bought your permits once the news hit the web.Can't wait for the next draw! I'm all over it!! :chuckle:
That's good info for the future.
Post by: rackattack on April 09, 2008, 05:38:32 PM
Post by: rackattack on April 09, 2008, 06:04:17 PM
Quote
Some department personnel also advised hunters about the results of the initial drawing before realizing it was invalidated, Ware said.Would be nice to have a department personnel as a friend in this case, I'm guessing that's the half dozen that bought their tags. :bs:
Post by: PolarBear on April 09, 2008, 06:18:53 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 09, 2008, 06:38:19 PM
And to think those incompetent bastages still get a paycheck for f-ing things up time and time again! :bash:now thats funny......
incompatent......thats a nice way of putting it........... :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on April 09, 2008, 06:58:04 PM
Post by: Jackjr on April 09, 2008, 08:41:51 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 09, 2008, 08:55:43 PM
Can you even put in for a multi-season tag as a group. I put in for mine online and did not see that option.
Apparently some BRILLIANT people found a way! :rolleyes:
Post by: Jackjr on April 09, 2008, 08:57:40 PM
Post by: Moosehunt on April 09, 2008, 10:00:05 PM
I have grown weary of this. To think that I have donated my time and efforts on a very large scale to fundraising for wildlife in this state. I sat in front of Koenigs last summer after the drawing fiasco and watched him lie right to 20 faces. Here he goes again taking a model paintbrush to tackle 20,000 sf of wall.
Post by: jackelope on April 09, 2008, 10:39:11 PM
Post by: Outfitter on April 09, 2008, 10:50:38 PM
Post by: Ray on April 09, 2008, 10:55:56 PM
Post by: Moosehunt on April 09, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
Why can't I buy it now? I have proof I was drawn...thanks to a screen print of my profile. Guys, it's all or none. No exceptions. If we allow exceptions to exists, we allow the WDFW the opportunity to make these mistakes without consequence. And for the record, it wasn't Outdoor Centrals problem. It was an idiot inside of the WDFW that made the decision. A decision that he was not authorized to make and one that has everyone here pissed about
Post by: SuperDave on April 10, 2008, 05:46:12 AM
It's a good plan on there part, Now they get all there money right away cause everyone is going to buy it the second they find out.
Way to go WDFW!!! not only have you figured out ways to make more money from hunters, now you've found a way to get it way in advance.
It has to be the money! I have had 6 of our non resident hunters tell me they drew and there $1700. Is there now a new draw or just BS.I totally agree with both these statements! I wonder what will be next?
Post by: Ray on April 10, 2008, 07:30:08 AM
I guess that's not the point I'm trying to make. Sour grapes....yes, I'll give you that but the WDFW can not allow the Hunters that purchased the Tags to keep them.
Not sure if that would stand up in a legal situation.
Post by: YellowDog on April 10, 2008, 09:31:35 AM
I'm not really blaming anyone for the actual screwed up drawings but there is no reason that the WDFW puts up with this. Whether it is their employees, Outdoor Central, Hillary Clinton, the bottom line is that WDFW takes our money and we deserve to have competent people conducting the draws that we pay for. The WDFW is responsible for making sure the draws are done correctly and if Outdoor Central can't do it (obviously they can not) then its time to hire someone else.
I'm not going to get too worked up about the 6 permits that were allowed to be purchased. I don't agree with letting them keep them but that's not the big picture issue for me. Getting the draws done right and restoring any semblance of confidence in the system is.
Post by: Dman on April 10, 2008, 01:18:56 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on April 10, 2008, 01:24:57 PM
Post by: CJ-5 on April 10, 2008, 03:13:13 PM
Post by: doveman10 on April 10, 2008, 03:50:40 PM
My hunting pals and I always put in for the special permits as a group. We all go or nobody goes. It would be nice for all of us to have the multiple weapon permit so that we could put in for the premium hunts with different weapons. As it has been, where you can only put in single applications for the multiple weapon permit, unless we all get drawn for it (which has not happened yet) we can't all put in for the special permits together for different weapons.
It doesn't even have to be for special permit purposes. I typically hunt with the same guys. Last year I got drawn and bought the multiple season permit. I bought it hoping they would get drawn on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, etc. redraw. They actually did get the notice they drew, but not until after we had already learned we got drawn for a premium late archery hunt. WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY IT THEN??? I don't like to hunt alone, so I wasted by money! I took my chances that they would get drawn and I paid for it.
The game department needs to allow party permits for the multiple weapon permits and they need to be paid for in advance to eliminate the redraw crap they've encountered the previous two years! IMHO
Post by: billythekidrock on April 10, 2008, 04:00:42 PM
Quote
I am not quite sure but was not the company who did the draw last year called great northwest now it is outdoor central? are they the same company just changed names?
Outdoor Central has been doing it the last few years. Before it was Great Lodge. Yes, same group.
Post by: billythekidrock on April 10, 2008, 04:03:14 PM
Quote
Does anybody on here know the reason why they don't want these tags to be available for draw by a group? Why does it have to be just a single application?
Probably because someone in the group would not purchase the permit for one reason or another. (not that it doesn't happen already.)
Post by: Gobble on April 14, 2008, 08:13:18 AM
Post by: FISHBOY on April 14, 2008, 09:07:01 AM
Post by: Shadow Cat on April 14, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
Dear Dr. Jeffrey P. Koenings,
I think I can speak for many in Washington who are few up with the mistakes AKA “technical error” that have been made when it comes to draws. On one hand, we see that we had been drawn for a species and the next we have not been. Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife is a state government agency, meaning you are the people’s employees and work for us, the citizens of Washington. If you were an employer, would you put up with your employees constantly making mistakes like this? I some how doubt it, so why should we? WDFW has gotten to the point that it has forgotten who it works for and needs to be reminded.
We that had been drawn and then lost tags in the second drawing feel we are entitled to a refund of our money. We paid for a draw and had received what we purchased: 1 DRAWING PER SPECIES. We did NOT pay for the opportunity to loose a tag that we had drawn. I understand that over the years it has become common for a political candidate to demand a recount after an election because they did not like the results. Well, this is NOT politics so leave that can of worms to the politicians and stop following their bad example.
I myself work in the IT field so if you need QUALITY IT personnel to do the job right, then start here with someone who understands the outdoors peoples issues. There needs to be a quality assurance system in place to ensure that mistakes are not repeated.
Please feel free to contact me to discuss this matter in more detail.
Sincerely,
Bob
Post by: Gobble on April 14, 2008, 03:05:03 PM
I got shafted twice in a year :( Can't understand how some people on the board were drawn last year and drawn again this year. That stinks for the rest of us who don't get drawn (nothing persaonal) but what they hey, I'm a sore loser I guess :chuckle:
Post by: steeleywhopper on April 14, 2008, 03:19:31 PM
Post by: rackattack on April 14, 2008, 04:02:44 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 14, 2008, 05:13:00 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on April 14, 2008, 05:47:16 PM
Post by: Webfoot on April 14, 2008, 05:54:33 PM
John
Post by: Wea300mag on April 14, 2008, 06:10:36 PM
I agree that's how it should be for this permit and for the once in a lifetime permits for moose, goat, and sheep too. It could have easily worked the other way for me. If I didn't get drawn for MT, I would have immediately bought the multi-season elk permit, then if I were drawn for a special elk permit over the summer, I would have likely never used the multi-season permit. When it's all said and done, I look at all my odds, costs, etc and make the best decision for me.
Dan
Post by: PolarBear on April 14, 2008, 06:37:06 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on April 14, 2008, 06:50:23 PM
Yep, go back to having to pay up front for applications and it will weed out a ton of folks who are going at it half adzed.
I would love to have it go back to that, but how do we offset the cost of them cutting checks and the lower amount (permit ap fee) of people applying?
Do we allow them to keep our money in a special fund? I would let them keep mine for a few years. Maybe they could release it only once a year if you never applied again?
Or do we pay $10 per OIL as a permit ap fee?
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on April 14, 2008, 07:13:37 PM
Post by: E-Town Hunter on April 14, 2008, 07:15:54 PM
Post by: Moosehunt on April 14, 2008, 08:21:39 PM
Too many questions, suspicions etc to make me say 'better luck next time.'
Post by: nwhunter on April 14, 2008, 08:26:17 PM
Post by: steeleywhopper on April 15, 2008, 02:56:47 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 15, 2008, 03:02:46 PM
Post by: Webfoot on April 17, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
Keep diggin. Let us know what you come up with.
I would also like to know who those handfull of people were that were allowed their own personal draw for these tags.
Especially curious if they are in any way connected with the WDFW.
John
Post by: billythekidrock on April 17, 2008, 04:20:17 PM
Quote
Especially curious if they are in any way connected with the WDFW.
That would be my question as well.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on April 17, 2008, 09:26:10 PM
Post by: saylean on April 17, 2008, 09:59:04 PM