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Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 05:41:08 PM

Title: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 05:41:08 PM: Need some advice. I have a Bowtech Sniper bow that shoots sweet and strait consistently. I can put 5 arrows inside a 4" ring at 40 yards. Target points. When I switch to broadheads all shots move 6" dead right in a nice tight group. I have had the bow tuned twice with little or no adjustements made. Arrows are flying true with no kick. Any ideas how to fix or should I just adjust the sights over when using broadheads?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 05:50:41 PM: Are the broadheads the same grains/weight as the field points? WHat type broadheads are they? If the bow is tuned correctly and the arrows are the right spine for the bow then you should be able to tune the broadheads to shoot to the same spot as the field points. Are the BH's in line with the vanes?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Big10gauge on December 01, 2010, 05:51:05 PM: May want to try moving your centershot out a smidge.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 05:53:39 PM: I have used Thunderbirds and Montec G5's with the same result. All tips same weight. Have not set the blades to the vanes as of yet. Tried moving drop down arrow rest (recommended by a fitter) that didnt work, tried other minimal adjustments seem to have the same result.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: high country on December 01, 2010, 05:56:22 PM: where do they hit at 20 and 40yds?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 05:57:14 PM: Not sure about Thunderheads but I have used the G5's in the past and they flew great. Might want to try the suggeestion above... that will probably work for you. Short term you can always adjust the sight for your BH's, but that is just masking a problem.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 05:59:37 PM: Incrementally different at each step distance. 20 yards about 4-5" 50 yards about 8".

I am using Beaman Cammo Hunter 340's 29 1/2" with 125 gr BHs. Bow is set at 70lbs draw.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: high country on December 01, 2010, 06:14:03 PM: rest?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: fishermanjoe on December 01, 2010, 06:20:36 PM: I had the same problem with one of my bows. I took it to the shop and they said my arrows were over spined. Take it in and make sure you have the right arrows, then get it paper tuned. That solved my problem.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 06:38:32 PM: Using a drop down rest and the bow was paper tuned. Hmm... I would figure if it where the arrows, then the field points should shoot the same as the broadheads, you would think.

BTW, took it in for this same reason, he told me to adjust the arrow rest slightly but all this does is move both points of impact incrementally the same.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Ihuntelk2 on December 01, 2010, 06:40:33 PM: Im perplexed....thinking but everything i can think of has been covered..i need some more time :chuckle:
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 06:46:56 PM: Ballistics... where are you located?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: high country on December 01, 2010, 06:47:30 PM: do they miss your spot at increasing intervals as you gt out farther? do they seem to hit at the correct elevation?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 06:49:34 PM: give us some more specs... what is the draw weight of the Sniper you have... what arrows are you using and at what length and your draw length.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: high country on December 01, 2010, 06:50:33 PM: you could add a washer behind the head to test effect on spine......one about 20grains should dhow you a difference
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 01, 2010, 06:52:47 PM: Is the set-up as a whole (except arrows) the same? I had one of those snap on side quivers that I used to take off for practicing.....I just stuck the field tips in the dirt, then snapped it on when I had broadheads. My shots were a bit off, until I started doing everything the same.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Jason on December 01, 2010, 06:53:22 PM: Your having the same problems that every archer has, before you go messing with your bow, and if its paper tuned then maybe that broadhead doesn't shoot well out of your bow, I would try a different broadhead, I like the Wac'em Tritons, they fly like field points. I started out with muzzys 3 blades and they did not fly worth crap out of my bow, always right and low, a local archery shop urged me to try a different broadhead, glad I did because they fly exactly like my field points.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 06:54:57 PM: lots of people swith to the Shuttle T's because they fly well...
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on December 01, 2010, 06:55:40 PM: Line up fletchings with broadhead blades!!!!!!
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Alan K on December 01, 2010, 07:04:56 PM: Quote from: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 06:54:57 PM
lots of people swith to the Shuttle T's because they fly well...

Thats what I did!
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 07:06:47 PM: Quote
Incrementally different at each step distance. 20 yards about 4-5" 50 yards about 8".

I am using Beaman Cammo Hunter 340's 29 1/2" with 125 gr BHs. Bow is set at 70lbs draw.

Ok, Ill try this again, hope this helps.

The bow is a bowtech Sniper set at at 68lbs last tested. It shoots these arrows 257 FPS total weight of the arrows is 498g.

Field points and broadheads are exactly the same weight. Both G5s and Thunderheads shoot pretty much the same point.

Elevation is pretty much exact between field points and BHs.

The distance between impact points is incrementally further the greater the distance is from the target and vice versa with closer.

Sounds like new BHs are in order. Any other thoughts?
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 01, 2010, 07:30:02 PM: what is your draw length? if it is longer than about 28" you are underspined. try decreasing draw weight, go to 100 gr tips, or buyt 300's
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 07:50:07 PM: Quote from: Button Nubbs on December 01, 2010, 07:30:02 PM
what is your draw length? if it is longer than about 28" you are underspined. try decreasing draw weight, go to 100 gr tips, or buyt 300's

Draw length is actually 29". I went with the heavier arrows and heavier tips to get better energy at impact with obvios better penetration.

Not real keen on going to a lighter arrow and lesseing the draw weight. I would prefer to buy a better arrow if necessary.

Quote
Ballistics... where are you located?
NWWABOWHNTR: I am located in Carnation just outside fall city or east of Redmond by about 11 miles.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Decker on December 01, 2010, 08:14:16 PM: I have to think it is most likely the arrow/spine. I was shooting premium Beman's last fall that converted good (between points and BH's) but this year I decided to try some cheaper arrows from Cabelas, had the T-Locks properly tuned to each arrow and they did the exact same thing as yours. I simply adjusted my sights (although masking the problem as stated earlier) as I am primarily hunting and not shooting FP's through the rest of the season. I will buy high quality arrows again next year, re-paper tune and should be fine.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 08:24:42 PM: try aligning the broadheads to the vanes as mentined here first... Just curious if you have done any bareshaft tuning with that setup. (NOT WITH BH!) U
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 01, 2010, 08:29:07 PM: I am saying keep the same arrow and lessen the draw weight, OR go to a 100 grain point, OR buy 300 spine arrows which are actually stiffer than 340's and also heavier. You have several options.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: throttlejocky20 on December 01, 2010, 09:09:44 PM: I had the same problem when i bought my new bow. almost did not hunt with it. I was shooting a strait fletched blazer vain. what fixed my issue without touching my bow was, I started shooting 100 grain shuttle T's and went to a 4 inch 4 vain fletch with a heilacoil. now my bow shoots exactly the same broadheads and field points.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Old Dog on December 01, 2010, 11:30:48 PM: Move the arrow rest 1/32" to the left. It's not uncommon to have to fine tune broadheads, even after a perfect tear through the paper, because of the greater front of center. I haven't checked recently, but Easton used to have a free pdf download that explained the whole thing.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: sakoshooter on December 01, 2010, 11:39:56 PM: Quote from: BallisticsNut on December 01, 2010, 05:59:37 PM
Incrementally different at each step distance. 20 yards about 4-5" 50 yards about 8".

I am using Beaman Cammo Hunter 340's 29 1/2" with 125 gr BHs. Bow is set at 70lbs draw.

Just for the hell of it, try a 100gr head just to see if there is any less flex because of pushing a bit less weight.
I lean toward what Big10guage said above. Adjusting your rest just a touch untill both field and hunting heads shoot alike, then adjust your sight to match. Start at 20 yds. Just a touch.
I'm kind of finicky and fiddled with mine untill I got exact results because they didn't shoot exactly the same even with good paper tuning. I'm shooting Beman 340 ICS Hunters w/100gr Thunderheads at 70lbs and they're in there out to 60yds..
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 02, 2010, 04:01:02 AM: Quote from: sakoshooter on December 01, 2010, 11:39:56 PM

Just for the hell of it, try a 100gr head just to see if there is any less flex because of pushing a bit less weight.
I lean toward what Big10guage said above. Adjusting your rest just a touch untill both field and hunting heads shoot alike, then adjust your sight to match. Start at 20 yds. Just a touch.
I'm kind of finicky and fiddled with mine untill I got exact results because they didn't shoot exactly the same even with good paper tuning. I'm shooting Beman 340 ICS Hunters w/100gr Thunderheads at 70lbs and they're in there out to 60yds..

Actually, by accident i was shooting 100 gr G5's and was seeing the same thing. Had me wondering what was up because they where shooting high and left from my field points. I realized that I had been using my 100gr tips and moved to the 125s. This got me perfect level but still left. I tried adjusting the center shot and yes it worked but it also moved my field points-point of impact as well. Once the site was adjusted I still had the same problem. I will move the BHs in line with fletchings and see if this makes a difference. BTW, this arrows do have the 4" helicoil fletchings, this is actually one of the reasons i went with these arrows. Thanks for the advice guys. I leave for my hunt in about an hour, for now I have split the difference between the field tips and BHs on the front site.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Jason on December 02, 2010, 05:48:44 AM: I don't think the fleching is going to make a difference, I was shooting axis 340's with 4" vains and switched them all to 2" blazers and it made no difference at all, try shuttle T's or Wac'em Tritons and if you like g5's try the Striker all are good broadheads, the striker and triton are pretty much the same, except the striker has a 1/16" larger cutting diameter, the tritons were $8 cheaper per pack and replacement blades are 1/2 the price.I have heard good things about the Slick Tricks also.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: wayner on December 02, 2010, 07:42:42 AM: Quote from: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on December 01, 2010, 06:55:40 PM
Line up fletchings with broadhead blades!!!!!!
:yeah:

That makes a big difference when I switch from field points to broadheads.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: garyltbh on December 02, 2010, 06:56:27 PM: i had the same problem about pulled my hair out tring to get the field tips to hit the same as hunting tips.in the end i just moved my sight for hunting season. that worked just great.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: coachcw on December 03, 2010, 12:33:02 PM: I'd shoot a dloop and really make sure your not gripping the bow . I dont think your under spined. i shoot four fletch blazers with slick tricks they fly like darts . you may want to spray your fleacthing with desinx foot powder to make sure your not getting contact . with the slick trick I set them up opposite the vanes .
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Fullabull on December 03, 2010, 03:53:29 PM: Go here and download this guide....it's great and will get you fixed up

http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf (http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf)

Good luck,
Fulla
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: colockumelk on December 05, 2010, 04:05:55 PM: If you move your site both your BH group and your FT group will both move, BUT..... the BH group will move a farther distance than your FT group and after adjusting it enough your BH group will "catch up" to your FT group. This is your problem. Its not spine, its not BH you just need to simply fine tune your Broad Heads so they impact with your Field Tips. I have yet to try a Broad Head that you don't have to do this with. And I've shot, Muzzy's, Shuttle-T's, G5's and Slick Tricks. BTW I like the Slick Tricks the best. Just my opinion though. The G5 Montec is an AWSOME head, I wouldn't change it out.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: bullrider97 on December 05, 2010, 06:43:03 PM: Ok, I had this problem- went with different arrows, different weight points, different broadheads, and it got expensive. Even though the manufacturer directs a certain arrow for draw length and poundage, they play it safe for liability. I went with Gold Tips according to the manufacturer, and guess what, arrow spine was too stiff, even though the box said they were right. If you don't want to change the arrows- I would try putting an O ring between your broadheads and the inserts. This allows you to incrementally adjust where the broadhead sits and how tight it is- but maybe you already did that. Typically if the arrows are shooting left- arrow too stiff, and vice versa for right.

I finally gave slick tricks a try- and only one needed adjustment. I tried Muzzy's, Thunderheads, Innerlocs- Slick Tricks did it for me. :twocents:

Good luck
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 06, 2010, 07:07:15 AM: Quote
If you move your site both your BH group and your FT group will both move, BUT..... the BH group will move a farther distance than your FT group and after adjusting it enough your BH group will "catch up" to your FT group.

Ok, do I hear you correctly on this. Adjust the arrow rest slightly and move the sights to correct alignment, continue this until both BH and FT hit the same point. ??

Quote
Line up fletchings with broadhead blades!!!!!!

Ok, on this one the tip inserts are glued and wont move so aligning the BH's wont work unless I remove the inserts, align and reset.

Quote
Go here and download this guide....it's great and will get you fixed up

Ok, downloaded and reading. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: high country on December 06, 2010, 07:34:01 AM: the whole thing screams spine issue. change up your weight and it will come around, once you get that dialed, you can possibly trim to get caught up......if too weak now.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 06, 2010, 04:15:31 PM: I just assumed you new how to broadhead tune by moving your rest. I agree with clockumelk they will both move but the broadheads will move more. That being said when I ran your specs through Archers advantage it said you were weak spined. I might get flamed for this but I personally think lining blades with fletching makes no difference at all. How would you do it with a 2 blade 3 fletch or a 4 blade 3 fletch? Just my opinion...
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 06, 2010, 06:24:16 PM: Quote from: Button Nubbs on December 06, 2010, 04:15:31 PM
I just assumed you new how to broadhead tune by moving your rest. I agree with clockumelk they will both move but the broadheads will move more. That being said when I ran your specs through Archers advantage it said you were weak spined. I might get flamed for this but I personally think lining blades with fletching makes no difference at all. How would you do it with a 2 blade 3 fletch or a 4 blade 3 fletch? Just my opinion...

Well, I can honestly say I am somewhat a NOOB. Archery has always been a passion and this is my third compound bow in as much as the last 20 years. Third bow replaced a defective second bow last year. I have done a whole crap load of research and talked with as many pros as I can to buy the right equipment. I am better then average I would say at most distances and have put 3 of 4 in a 3' in ring a 60 yards using field points. That being said, I have researched tried and tested the moving of the arrow rest but didnt see much improvement. This is why I came here for help.

Im not opposed in buying new arrows, I have split two of my last 6 and damaged two others by hitting a fence because of using the wrong pin. (NOOB) Ill look into some Beaman 300s or equivelant but I dont want to change my weights, lengths or draw weight. As well I will look at replacing my arrow rest with better drop down rest. Ill return and let you know the result. Thanks again.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: colockumelk on December 06, 2010, 06:57:09 PM: I'd do what Button Nubbs said and get some arrows that have a stiffer spine. Then re-shoot your field tips and broadheads and see where they hit in relation to each other. Only move the rest. DO NOT move your sight until your broadheads and your field tips are hitting the same place. Then readjust your sight. Then repeat the process at 40yds. You will then be good.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 06, 2010, 07:50:45 PM: let me know when your gonna buy new arrows and i will run the numbers thru archers advantage and we can get ya set-up perfect! :brew:
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 07, 2010, 06:39:19 AM: Quote from: Button Nubbs on December 06, 2010, 07:50:45 PM
let me know when your gonna buy new arrows and i will run the numbers thru archers advantage and we can get ya set-up perfect! :brew:

Ill be picking up a set probably in the spring. Since hunting season is over for me and its a bit too cold here to be out shootin' every day.

Interesting fact here, I just looked up my arrows on Beman's website and it states that my current arrows are correct shaft and spine. Maybe I should be looking into the Archers Advantage software.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on December 07, 2010, 06:49:31 AM: Arrow charts can get you in the right general area, but each bow is different.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: bowhunter851 on December 07, 2010, 07:44:22 AM: i would just leave it how it is, and every time you hunt then just adjust to broadheads when hunting ur supposed to shoot broadheads only a couple weeks before hunting season anyways.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: Button Nubbs on December 07, 2010, 07:44:39 AM: I agree with nwwabowhuntr. Those charts don't take bow speed into the equation. A 300 ibo bows spine will be a lot different than a 350 ibos spine.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: fly4fish on December 07, 2010, 10:21:43 AM: Before you spend any money or waste anymore time, tune your bow for broadheads as stated earlier using the easton broadhead tuning guide. You just move the rest minutely. The broadheads will adjust more than the field points, and when they start hitting the same spot, adjust your sites. I had the exact same issue. You should not have to adjust your sites every time you want to hunt. Each different type of broadhead will shoot a little different and just because a head shoots just like a field point without any adjustment does not mean it is better than one that does not, it just means you got lucky and the bow is tuned for that particular broadhead. All the broadhead needs to do is be consistent with itself, then it is up to you to get it hitting the same spot as feild points. Broadhead manufactures should give out tuning instructions, they would keep a lot of customers that way.
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: BallisticsNut on September 13, 2011, 10:26:22 AM: Just wanted to give an update. Heading out this weekend for Archery Elk and have been spending some time tuning my bow based upon many things, some of the recommendations listed in this topic.
I havent had as much time shooting this year as I had hoped due to other commitments and was getting a bit frustrated trying a multitude of tuning recommendations. Yesterday, I think I finally hit the mark. I no longer shoot three consecutive arrows in the same target under 40 yards due to already splitting three arrows last year. Now that I am getting ready for Archery Elk and only have 9 arrows left for this season. 3 with target points, 3 with broadhead target points and three broadhead hunting arrows. Today, finally got the grouping I was needing to build my confident. As you can see from the pic, they are still a bit left but overall the broadheads and fieldpoints are hitting the same spot.

These are six consecutive shots at 50 yards.

(No worries, I wont be taking 50 yard shots in the field)
Title: Re: 6" spread between target tips and broadheads at 30 yards?
Post by: TheHunt on September 13, 2011, 11:16:03 AM: Quote from: Alan K on December 01, 2010, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: NWWABOWHNTR on December 01, 2010, 06:54:57 PM
lots of people swith to the Shuttle T's because they fly well...

Thats what I did!
Same here!!! but they also open up a wound channel on the animal as well.