Post by: fishunt247 on December 14, 2010, 03:46:34 PM
On December 12, I watched the “hunt” and kill of a 6pt bull elk by two Yakama Tribe members in West Valley. It was killed within a quarter mile of a feeding station in a game unit that any non-tribal member must draw a special permit in to hunt anything larger than a spike, and in an area of that unit that is closed during late archery season to protect wintering elk. This unit is managed to give special tag recipients a good chance at a big bull. I watched the “hunters” drive around the elk, on and off of roads, chasing the herd, all to get into a position where they could shoot from the vehicle. The Game Wardens accepted the idea that these two hunters “looked tribal,” and did not pursue them. It seems horribly wrong that tribal members can hunt in closed areas, and at times of the year that hunting is closed to the public, for a trophy animal that the Game Dept. manages the unit for and that the public cannot pursue unless drawn. Something must be done to stop the harassment and poaching of elk and deer on the winter range: tribal and non-tribal.
Hopefully some of you can write a similar letter of support once they publish it.
Post by: Ellensburg on December 14, 2010, 03:47:39 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on December 14, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on December 14, 2010, 03:57:44 PM
Post by: carver52 on December 14, 2010, 03:58:30 PM
It wouldn't be good for me to open up on this topic so I'll shut up right now.
Post by: gaddy on December 14, 2010, 03:59:48 PM
Post by: ser300wsm on December 14, 2010, 04:00:40 PM
Post by: Gutpile on December 14, 2010, 04:01:27 PM
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on December 14, 2010, 04:09:59 PM
Keep in mind, you piss the members off too much and they could increase the harvest and number of hunters just to spite you (us)!!!
A thought out, respectful, factual discussion/letter goes a long ways.
Post by: link on December 14, 2010, 04:28:06 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 14, 2010, 04:30:46 PM
Well hell, that sounds like racial profiling to me. If the gamie didn't investigate because the "hunters" looked tribal, well who is going to file the lawsuit? Anybody know what Al Sharptons' or Jessie Jacksons' phone numbers are? Let me talk to Obama, he needs to know about this horrible thing that is happening to our nations minorities. Not being pursued because they looked tribal is an infringement on their civil liberties! I also insist on getting the game wardens name and badge number. I need to straighten him out on how things need to be done. Oh wait, I don't have a say in these matters, nevermind. :bash: :chuckle: :chuckle:
You haven't seen the "other" thread have you? :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on December 14, 2010, 04:34:28 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 14, 2010, 04:41:02 PM
Post by: link on December 14, 2010, 04:43:49 PM
Well hell, that sounds like racial profiling to me. If the gamie didn't investigate because the "hunters" looked tribal, well who is going to file the lawsuit? Anybody know what Al Sharptons' or Jessie Jacksons' phone numbers are? Let me talk to Obama, he needs to know about this horrible thing that is happening to our nations minorities. Not being pursued because they looked tribal is an infringement on their civil liberties! I also insist on getting the game wardens name and badge number. I need to straighten him out on how things need to be done. Oh wait, I don't have a say in these matters, nevermind. :bash: :chuckle: :chuckle:
You haven't seen the "other" thread have you? :chuckle:
No, I haven't. Did I just make an ass out of myself? I'll check it out now. :P
Post by: rasbo on December 14, 2010, 04:45:29 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 14, 2010, 04:48:30 PM
No, I haven't. Did I just make an ass out of myself? I'll check it out now. :P
Not even close, by comparison! :chuckle:
Post by: Raul Duke on December 14, 2010, 04:49:12 PM
Post by: UBA on December 14, 2010, 04:50:44 PM
Post by: undertoad on December 14, 2010, 05:05:56 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 14, 2010, 05:11:38 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 14, 2010, 06:12:16 PM
And I am now on a mission to send it to other papers in the state. I have to grade some essays first, but I'll continue later.
Post by: Goldeneye on December 14, 2010, 06:17:08 PM
If you really want to stir the pot... send it to the Seattle times.
x 2
Post by: gasman on December 14, 2010, 06:27:35 PM
If you really want to stir the pot... send it to the Seattle times.
x 2
This would be your best corse of action.
All East Siders know that Seattle makes the desicion for the whole state. Get the "Greenies" pissed off about it and it will move forward :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sent it to the TV news stations also. Each station has an investgative reporter, maybe they will look in to it :dunno:
Seng it to Ken Shram ;)
Post by: fishunt247 on December 14, 2010, 07:12:12 PM
Post by: elkbuster on December 14, 2010, 07:20:40 PM
If you really want to stir the pot... send it to the Seattle times.
Hell, don't do that, the liberal tree huggers will have hunting shut down in the whole state of WA for everyone!
Post by: BENCHLEG on December 14, 2010, 07:58:37 PM
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 14, 2010, 08:16:17 PM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on December 14, 2010, 09:02:24 PM
Post by: JCClement on December 15, 2010, 06:27:17 AM
Post by: biggdogg on December 15, 2010, 06:51:25 AM
Post by: bullrider97 on December 15, 2010, 07:02:26 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 15, 2010, 07:20:17 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 15, 2010, 07:30:29 AM
Quote
2) Most of the survivors are killed by commercial fishermen, often with gillnets in the very river to which the fish have returned in a futile attempt to spawn...Commercial fishermen, tribal or otherwise, try to blame everything except overharvest on the problem...
Wrong once again, bigdogg. This is copied directly from his letter. So he blames all commercial fisherman. You should try getting your facts right.
And the Yakima Herald has printed tribal issues before, so there is hope. I don't expect anything to happen, but it can't help to get the word out a little more.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 15, 2010, 08:10:56 AM
Post by: fisheral87 on December 15, 2010, 09:36:21 AM
Quote
Seng it to Ken Shram
Send it to him too. :chuckle:
Post by: runamuk on December 15, 2010, 09:59:52 AM
..We really need this crap on video.Hope they post it and a big hell yeah for going forth with it
I have a decent video camera and this little blonde girl likes taking pictures of stupid crap people do....might make it my new offseason hobby when I am finally over there... videoing poachers if you aren't poaching you wont mind at all the way I figure it....shoot at me I will sick all those crazed feminists on you for violating my rights being a minority myself ;) hell maybe I can even use it as a project in my classes turn all that time into research ;)
Post by: Houndhunter on December 15, 2010, 10:04:35 AM
QuoteSeng it to Ken Shram
Send it to him too. :chuckle:
thats a good idea, him or john carlson. i would call in and comment and that
Post by: matt345 on December 15, 2010, 10:24:31 AM
Post by: b23 on December 15, 2010, 10:29:58 AM
I would like to see our Government step up and offer ALL native americans this deal. You can hunt freely any public land you want but if you select this free pass to hunt anything, anytime, you will no longer get ANY money from the US Government. Neither Local or federal money. Nothing! Or you can continue to get you "check" and hunt non rez land but you have to hunt by the EXACT same laws as every other non native person and if you are caught selling ANY part of ANY animal you lose everything.
Post by: huntandjeep on December 15, 2010, 07:53:28 PM
Post by: Band on December 16, 2010, 09:13:12 AM
I would have loved to include the Game Warden's name, the truck description and license number...I don't see any reason why a paper would not print this type of a letter to the editor. Had you included specific information as noted above they would edit that out. Letters to the editor are intended to be fairly general in nature and get people to think about issues, not to investigate specific persons.
I hope your letter gets printed in as many papers as possible. This issue should be brought up for public scrutiny and debate.
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2010, 09:27:10 AM
Post by: wonder on December 16, 2010, 09:43:23 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 16, 2010, 10:18:55 AM
Probably the more likely outcome.If you really want to stir the pot... send it to the Seattle times.
Hell, don't do that, the liberal tree huggers will have hunting shut down in the whole state of WA for everyone!
Post by: huntnnw on December 16, 2010, 11:24:26 AM
more damage to fish runs by non tribal??? enlighten us... indians are some of the most wastefull people I have ever seen!!! My best friend works on the peninsula with the state..piles of salmon they waste!! but yet they get to net rivers that we as citizens of WA foot the bill for hatchery released salmon and steelhead?? not right
Post by: whiteeyes on December 16, 2010, 11:59:11 AM
+1fishhunt, I also agree with getting these so called hunts on video would help light a fireYou might want to do some research on who is footing the bill for the hatchery's before making statements like that. You might be surprised.
more damage to fish runs by non tribal??? enlighten us... indians are some of the most wastefull people I have ever seen!!! My best friend works on the peninsula with the state..piles of salmon they waste!! but yet they get to net rivers that we as citizens of WA foot the bill for hatchery released salmon and steelhead?? not right
Post by: gasman on December 16, 2010, 01:54:58 PM
+1fishhunt, I also agree with getting these so called hunts on video would help light a fireYou might want to do some research on who is footing the bill for the hatchery's before making statements like that. You might be surprised.
more damage to fish runs by non tribal??? enlighten us... indians are some of the most wastefull people I have ever seen!!! My best friend works on the peninsula with the state..piles of salmon they waste!! but yet they get to net rivers that we as citizens of WA foot the bill for hatchery released salmon and steelhead?? not right
If you have the information all ready, enlighten us........
Educate us, under educated.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 16, 2010, 03:24:29 PM
But I guess hatcheries aren't what this thread is about anyway.
Post by: hirshey on December 16, 2010, 03:58:26 PM
Nice letter; I hope it gets published to at least create more awareness of these sad types of situations: tribal or not.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 16, 2010, 05:44:30 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 16, 2010, 06:27:44 PM
Although I understand fishunt's use of the "....." when he refers to "hunting" in a sarcastic sense, I would recommend making it clear that harassing animals with vehicles is not a form of hunting by any hunter's standards. I don't particularly think that sarcasm works in persuasive writing when you are dealing with an otherwise objective public forum. Also, what they were doing is illegal by anyones regulations and the emphasis should be put on the fact that no one is putting forth effort at enforcing (state/tribal).
The other recommendation I would make (which most will likely disagree with) is the emphasis that was put on the "unfair" differences of tribal hunting vs. non tribal hunting. It's a topic that I think has been beat to death publicly...and reluctantly accepted by most. Maybe if it was worded in a way that explicitly illustrates how lack of co management and/or similar management goals/strategies can have a negative affect on big game populations.
So...In summary....I think It would be beneficial to use this particular situation that fishunt witnessed to illustrate that there is lack of enforcement effort in an area that has a serious lack of co management/cooperation and this could all potentially cause some serious problems for wildlife. I think with this strategy you could avoid enviro's that get emotional and start attacking all hunters.
Good Job with the diplomacy though, fishunt...I didn't really feel that it was at all an attack on Natives...that gives you a lot more credibility.
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2010, 07:00:55 PM
Quote
This unit is managed to give special tag recipients a good chance at a big bull.
In the future, I think you might not want to state that the unit is managed so that we hunters can kill trophy size bulls. I just don't think most non-hunters will sympathize much with the idea that tribal hunters are taking the trophy bulls from the non-tribal hunters.
And, honestly I don't believe the primary reason for spike only management is to provide an opportunity for us to kill trophy bull elk. It is done more as a way to provide optimum bull to cow ratios, and a healthy, well balanced elk herd.
Also, don't forget that there is no longer a "Game Department" and hasn't been for many years. We all know what you're talking about but using that term might confuse others.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 16, 2010, 07:07:53 PM
Bobcat's critique was way harsher than mine...I think you should be mad at bobcat and not me :chuckle:
Oops...did I break my rule about sarcasm in a public forum...
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2010, 07:12:49 PM
Post by: Roost Run on December 16, 2010, 07:54:39 PM
tri-city herald- i would love to see this in the paper
What he said. I would love to see this in the Saturday "Outdoors" section of the Tri-City Herald
Post by: fishunt247 on December 16, 2010, 08:23:55 PM
But in my defense Coastal, it is VERY hard to explain yourself in a letter than can be no more than 200 words, especially trying to explain what you suggest. I felt like it was more important to explain the attocities of the situation. I used "hunting" to cut down on the word count; I thought it would get the point across. My point wasn't that harrassing elk with a vehicle is wrong. I think everybody knows that, and that it is done by non tribal members too. I chose to focus on my belief that hunting, targeting, and killing copius amounts of big bulls on the winter range in unit that is draw only for big bulls is very, very wrong.
And Bobcat, while it is true that one goal of spike only is a better bull to cow ratio, I think pretending that another goal isn't to give hunters opportunity to kill bigger bulls is, well, pretending. Big bulls and big bucks bring in the cash; our WDFW is a cash hungry business. One goal is scientific, and the other is reality. Maybe that's just how I see it though. And if people don't know what the Game Dept. is, they surely aren't going to know what the WDFW is. The letter is right at 200 words, so writing it out would put me over the word count.
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2010, 08:28:16 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 16, 2010, 08:33:55 PM
Points taken. You guys can tell me it sucks. I'm not offended easily. And I'm not a letter writer; I'm a poet (which I'll probably get flogged for now).
But in my defense Coastal, it is VERY hard to explain yourself in a letter than can be no more than 200 words, especially trying to explain what you suggest. I felt like it was more important to explain the attocities of the situation. I used "hunting" to cut down on the word count; I thought it would get the point across. My point wasn't that harrassing elk with a vehicle is wrong. I think everybody knows that, and that it is done by non tribal members too. I chose to focus on my belief that hunting, targeting, and killing copius amounts of big bulls on the winter range in unit that is draw only for big bulls is very, very wrong.
And Bobcat, while it is true that one goal of spike only is a better bull to cow ratio, I think pretending that another goal isn't to give hunters opportunity to kill bigger bulls is, well, pretending. Big bulls and big bucks bring in the cash; our WDFW is a cash hungry business. One goal is scientific, and the other is reality. Maybe that's just how I see it though. And if people don't know what the Game Dept. is, they surely aren't going to know what the WDFW is. The letter is right at 200 words, so writing it out would put me over the word count.
Oops...now I feel like a jerk. Yes, the 200 word thing makes it difficult...and you said that in the beginning, but I forgot to consider it. Your critique of my critique is a good critique. :chuckle:
Post by: fishunt247 on December 16, 2010, 08:51:36 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2010, 04:43:19 AM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 17, 2010, 10:43:06 AM
On average, it takes 8-10 years to draw a permit to hunt bull elk. When a permit is finally drawn, there is a nine day season to try to harvest a bull. I cannot understand why I only get the opportunity to hunt these magnificent bulls once a decade while a group of people who live twenty miles south of me are allowed to harvest an unlimited amount of bull elk every year in these same areas? I know bad apples exist in every culture, but there is a small group from the Yakama tribe that harvest as many bull elk as possible on any given day all year long, typically targeting these animals when they are most vulnerable: on their winter range and trying to survive the toughest time of year. I know they signed a treaty 155 years ago to be able to freely hunt “open and unclaimed” lands. But I still believe they should limit themselves on total harvest, especially a limited number of bulls, and they should penalize the ones who hunt unethically. It should also be required for them to share their harvest statistics with the WDFW so herd health can be evaluated.
Dan Gabbard
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2010, 10:53:55 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 22, 2010, 07:59:31 PM
Post by: goosegetter79 on December 22, 2010, 09:52:49 PM
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/search/?q=tribal+hunting&sortby=date (http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/search/?q=tribal+hunting&sortby=date)
Post by: boneaddict on December 23, 2010, 05:10:42 AM
Post by: Dslayer on December 23, 2010, 05:45:34 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 23, 2010, 05:29:26 PM
The editor from the Yakima Herald emailed me yesterday wanting to know how I knew that they "looked tribal." Really??? I mean, I'm not for racial profiling on descriptions or anything, but I have family that lives in Toppenish and I've hunted on and fished on the reservation since I was about ten, and I think I know a Yakama man from a European man from an African man from a Mexican man from an Asian man. Different groups of people look different: that is just the way it is. I tried to be as PC as I could in hopes that it would get published. If a man was robbing a store, and the clerk said it was a Native American man, would the Police and the commuty all question, "Well, how do you know that this man who robbed you actually looked Native American?" Jesus.
Post by: washelkhntr on December 23, 2010, 05:38:34 PM
Post by: ribka on December 23, 2010, 05:42:44 PM
WOW, reading some of the comments on it. I can see why this nation is in DEEP *censored*.
I read comments too. Surprised at the amount of *censored* loonies on the E side.
Post by: hirshey on December 23, 2010, 11:29:18 PM
Post by: JCClement on December 23, 2010, 11:31:40 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 24, 2010, 12:35:05 AM
Dixie (anonymous) 2 days, 4 hours ago
Safety Valve: Letters from readers
Mr. McKimmey said they “looked tribal” so WDFW did not stop them. Did they have big-feathered headdresses and moccasins? Is this how they looked tribal? Sorry I have to chuckle. However, getting to the point is it absolutely necessary to bash Native Americans and bring up mostly incorrect assumptions about them because two “tribal looking” dudes poached (?) an elk? Seems to me I read a week or so ago about how several white guys slaughtered a whole herd of elk for sport. I did not hear anyone bemoaning how worthless and lazy white people were when that happened. I agree that tribal hunting agreements need to be revamped but just because some people no matter what the nationality are prone to be jerks does not mean the entire group should be slandered. I would also like say the claims that Native Americans have no long-term connections with specific areas are false. Although many tribes had different areas for winter and summer villages, (many of you can relate to this you call them winter and summer homes. I doubt you would take anyone seriously that said you had no right to either because you move between them.) Many tribes can prove continuity of culture and province well beyond ten thousand years including the local ones. I would suggest that all of you that see Native Americans as nothing more than leaches on white society do a bit of reading up. Two good starter books are “Columbus in the Americas” by William Heat-Moon and 1491 by Charles C. Mann.
Vote 0
Post reply
Sign in to replySuggest removal.. firefly87 (fire fly) 54 minutes ago
Safety Valve: Letters from readers
I suppose you've never been able to discern if someone "looked" a specific ethnicity before? If you live in communities with varying racial makeups you eventually can discern such things. It does not take a "headdress or moccasins" to provide a best guess; especially in a situation as brazen as herding elk with a truck in the middle of the day until the persons could get the best shot at the biggest antlers in the group. That would cost a non-native their truck, firearm, and lifetime hunting privelages whereas there are no such regulations in place for natives. And the arguement that they have connections with the area is fine... except that the particular elk herd they are abusing was introduced to the area BY WHITE MEN in the early 1910's. It is not an issue of slandering the entire nationality, it is simply to put to light the fact that reform needs to take place to protect the nation's property. The resources belong to all of us, and should be respected thus.
How about this: if it is an issue of tradition, use traditional gear? If its an issue of ceremony, document it! But if its an issue of bragging rights and selling antlers and jerky and creating waste of animals that deserve more respect than that, let's realize no treaty was created to abuse animals stocked for all to enjoy.. whether we hunt or not!
Also, I would be curious to see how your accusation of "how several white guys slaughtered a whole herd for sport" fits into your mantra of not bashing or bringing up incorrect assumptions "no matter the nationality". Each non-tribal member only gets the opportunity at a single elk per year.. IF they are lucky. I'd like to read up on where you are getting your information.
Post by: hirshey on December 25, 2010, 12:35:07 AM
Post by: Special T on December 25, 2010, 09:16:25 AM
I think this is just another example of the lack of management and enforcement that wrecking the WDFW... :twocents:
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 28, 2010, 11:54:06 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 28, 2010, 12:08:07 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 28, 2010, 12:11:23 PM
Post by: kirkl on December 28, 2010, 12:30:30 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on December 28, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
Post by: Whitefoot on December 29, 2010, 04:37:47 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 29, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
The next letter is going to explain that the Rocky Mountain Elk were transplanted here by the American tax payers in 1911. So the Yakamas shouldn't even be allowed to hunt for these animals.
Post by: HHPro on December 29, 2010, 04:52:07 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 29, 2010, 05:15:40 PM
I'm confused why she hasn't printed mine yet. There was some talk back and forth between the editor and me, and it sounded very promising that she would print it. Maybe it is still coming.
And Whitefoot, if the letter is dumb, maybe you should write a rebuttal to it. Make it a public discussion. We'd be interested to hear.
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 29, 2010, 08:07:17 PM
History of the Rocky Mountain Elk in Yakima County
In 1913 a group of landowners, sportsmen and Yakima County officials introduced Rocky Mountain elk from Yellowstone National Park to the Yakima area of eastern Washington.
Post by: hughjorgan on December 29, 2010, 08:33:53 PM
What a dumb letter.... 8)
Yeah i know what you mean probably would have gotten some indians attention better if it had a picture of a four loko or a 40 or something huh? 8)
Post by: b23 on December 29, 2010, 09:31:35 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 29, 2010, 09:41:39 PM
Post by: Special T on December 29, 2010, 09:42:26 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 29, 2010, 09:43:56 PM
Post by: Special T on December 29, 2010, 09:55:40 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 29, 2010, 10:43:29 PM
Yeah i know what you mean probably would have gotten some indians attention better if it had a picture of a four loko or a 40 or something huh? 8)
What a great way to exercise your freedom of speech. I'm sure this is exactly what our forfathers had in mind.
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 30, 2010, 12:02:11 AM
"They" I thought you were one Buckmaster?
Negative. I am as white as they come.
Post by: Weatherbyfan on December 30, 2010, 07:34:22 AM
Post by: runamuk on December 30, 2010, 07:48:15 AM
Yeah i know what you mean probably would have gotten some indians attention better if it had a picture of a four loko or a 40 or something huh? 8)
What a great way to exercise your freedom of speech. I'm sure this is exactly what our forfathers had in mind.
Naw I had a similar response for whitefoot but didnt type it out....was gonna ask if he came to that conclusion after downing the firewater....but there is some history here with him he would come into chat all liquored up and talk smack...lol...he likes to brag about his big bulls and carry on so he gets a little flack from some people here....
Post by: Special T on December 30, 2010, 09:31:02 AM
Yeah what a (dumb) letter. Just because there are no pictures to guide you through the letter that doesn't mean it is a (dumb) letter. If you would like you can call me and I can read it to you.
The next letter is going to explain that the Rocky Mountain Elk were transplanted here by the American tax payers in 1911. So the Yakamas shouldn't even be allowed to hunt for these animals.
Apparently i didn't see through the sarcasm...
Post by: fishunt247 on December 30, 2010, 07:02:36 PM
Coastal, since you seem to be very level headed, intelligent, and have good info: Why is it that tribes like the Yakama's can hunt elk when elk are not native? Is it because of the clause "traditional and accustomed land" or however that language reads? Does the idea that tribes can hunt traditional lands override the species being hunted, traditional or not?
And buckmaster, the comment of you being Native made me laugh so hard. You will never live that down. :chuckle:
Post by: Elkslayer on December 30, 2010, 07:11:11 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 30, 2010, 09:27:07 PM
Coastal, since you seem to be very level headed, intelligent, and have good info: Why is it that tribes like the Yakama's can hunt elk when elk are not native? Is it because of the clause "traditional and accustomed land" or however that language reads? Does the idea that tribes can hunt traditional lands override the species being hunted, traditional or not?
Unfortunately, being level headed, intelligent, and having good info doesn't make me an expert on historical elk distribution :chuckle: I would guess that if elk historically inhabited some parts of the Yaks U&A they can easily justify hunting them throughout. I only say that because elk populations tend to redistribute themselves when their habitat is constantly being diminished and/or altered.
I think if the Yaks historically hunted elk within their U&A, then they should still be able to in what ever areas elk currently inhabit. Most sources conclude that elk originally inhabited parts of south central WA. All sources seem to acknowledge that at least some portions of Central WA did not historically have elk. I'm not trying to prove a point...I know very little about this topic and tend not to pay much attention to it when reading. Big game population and distribution has been modified so much in the last two centuries that I don't know if anyone can say for sure what the truth is. All I can say is kudos to Roosevelt. In the name of conservation (hunting) our nation was able to bring back a lot of wildlife after decades of abuse.
Post by: jager on December 31, 2010, 02:50:33 PM
Sorry to be a little off topic, but.....no pics or video of the green Toyota offenders...why?...
I'm sorry but I keep hearing complaints but there is no photographic evidence...not that I don't belive it...
Pictures or video will make all the difference in the world. :twocents:
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 31, 2010, 06:11:09 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 31, 2010, 06:19:52 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2010, 06:21:23 PM
Post by: logger on December 31, 2010, 06:30:12 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 31, 2010, 06:32:48 PM
Post by: ser300wsm on December 31, 2010, 06:36:51 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on December 31, 2010, 06:36:51 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
Post by: logger on December 31, 2010, 06:39:17 PM
Post by: norsepeak on December 31, 2010, 06:39:36 PM
Post by: Tman on December 31, 2010, 06:59:50 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 31, 2010, 09:29:40 PM
These animals were shot 200 yards above the hay piles in the Nile feeding station. The guys who did this were quite proud of there accomplishment. I told them how worthless they were and how any retard can go and shoot elk in a feeding station. The one laughed and said " Isn't it great." My buddy and I stuck around for a few minutes and voiced our opinions and the three of them just laughed it off.
Buckmaster,
This one has the potential to get even more heated down the road...so I thought I'd express my distaste for your actions now in order to get a head start :chuckle:. I don't agree with harassing the two men or posting their pics online in attempt to discredit them. If they were outside of the feeding area (I think you said they were?) and were not violating any game laws under their jurisdiction, I don't understand your actions. I don't agree with killing animals when they are that vulnerable or doing it in the manor it was probably done, but i also don't agree with killing deer out of a treehouse over a food plot either...I try to keep my mouth shut though because I understand my idea of hunting is different than others. It's also typical of hunters to kill animals outside the edges of areas that are closed to hunting, so I don't necessarily understand the problem with the Yaks taking advantage of the feeding stations. They could probably use a little harassment this time of year anyway to prevent them from congregating in large numbers and spreading disease.
I personally don't like the idea of hand feeding "wild animals", but I understand why it is done. IMO, if the habitat base and population size is such that you have to supplemental feed why not just take the surplus animals that would likely die in the woods of starvation and put them in your annual harvest quota for peoples freezers. Big game mgmt must be difficult over there regardless of the treaty hunting.
Lastly, and probably the most disturbing to me...Most people are going to look at those pictures and use the following observations to base their anger: The two guys are Indian, they aren't wearing camo, they have multiple animals in the back, they have a tribal sticker in the window, they are overweight. All these things, although irrelevant to the treaty hunting discussion on this forum, will invoke emotion out of people involved in the discussion. This is no different than the tactic enviros use to push their agenda.
Sorry if I sound like an ass. Feel free to rip my post appart. Happy New Years.
Post by: logger on December 31, 2010, 10:13:05 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 31, 2010, 10:33:27 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 31, 2010, 11:08:17 PM
I think the posting of the pictures is exactly what is needed. These are the faces of the people who we have talked about alot here. It is what it is, tribal members shooting elk at a feeding station.
That may be the opinion of most on this forum, but I still don't see why it's "needed". To take a very serious and controversial topic and project all the hate onto a few individuals...I don't think this solves anything, especially if these guys weren't doing anything illegal. There are some pretty extreme people that view and post on this site and it would be unfortunate for anyone to recieve any undeserved backlash.
If you disagree with treaties and tribal regulations don't attack the individuals who are working within the system.
Post by: logger on December 31, 2010, 11:28:54 PM
I think the posting of the pictures is exactly what is needed. These are the faces of the people who we have talked about alot here. It is what it is, tribal members shooting elk at a feeding station.
That may be the opinion of most on this forum, but I still don't see why it's "needed". To take a very serious and controversial topic and project all the hate onto a few individuals...I don't think this solves anything, especially if these guys weren't doing anything illegal. There are some pretty extreme people that view and post on this site and it would be unfortunate for anyone to recieve any undeserved backlash.
If you disagree with treaties and tribal regulations don't attack the individuals who are working within the system
It's how we play the game, I think it's great, It's all part of what's called repurcussion, this area is not like the quinalt area, the elk are pretty much on the winter range, basically the same as shooting fish in a barrel, the yaks have probally the best rez. in the state for wildlife yet they whack the piss out of it then move onto the winter range on public ground. To me it's the same thing as property rights, my opinion stops at the line, therefore on the rez, do what ever makes them happy, step off it and they are subject to backlash for the raping of OUR resources, it's not working within the system, it's abusing within the sytstem, as I have always said just cause they say it's so dosen't make it so.
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2011, 07:17:48 AM
Coastal the Treaty Rights never gave them the right to shoot elk at a feeding station that is funded by the WDFW. The treaty says nothing about American Sportsmen paying and funding a feed station so the Yakamas could drive up to the feeding station in vehicles invented and made by Americans/Japanese, on roads made by Americans, and then shoot the elk using modern rifles, scopes and range finders made by Americans/Europeans/Japanese. The treaty mentions nothing about State Hunters paying for hay to feed the elk in the winter so the Yakamas could shoot them from the road. When the treaty was made there was not an elk herd in Yakima County. There were a few elk near the Pacific Crest Trail but as far as the herds go like they are today like it was mentioned before those elk were introduced by us. Those elk were planted by American Sportsman and funded by American Sportsmen. So the treaty has nothing to do with this. Its about what is right and what is wrong. Its about how there are some rules and regulations that are being taken advantage of. It is about discrimination. Your right not every Yakama goes up there and does this but...... they also don't punish those that do. Their silence in this matter says everything. So we are going to do what we have to do to bring this BS to an end. I don't care what you say it is discrimination. Websters says discrimination is
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
This is the only way to put a stop to this. This isn't hunting this is killing. If I were to do this I'd lose everything. But these guys can do it day after day and its okay. Pictures speak louder than words. If these pictures make these individuals look like a Piece of trash well..... I guess then the Yakamas need to police their own and clean up the trash. Until then if it looks like a piece of trash, acts like a piece of trash then it probably is a piece of trash. If this pictures pisses the general population off oh well then the picture did its job because that's what it was meant to do. To bring to light amongst non hunters what exactly goes on up there.
I know this strikes a deep chord with you but I remember when I used to be able to go up in the Mud Lake area and look at the deer, elk and sheep with my family. Now its closed down to keep the natives from killing them on their winter range. This was a right that was taken from me. Every year we lose more and more hunting rights while the Yakamas conntribute nothing and gain more and more. Its time things were fair and hopefully this is the frist step of many to equalize things.
Buckmaster keep up the good work. Its people like you and me that will change things. Hopeffully more people like you will follow suite and go up there and take pictures of this kind of stuff. So we can get photographic evidence so we can start letting the public know what goes on and how our state refuses to do anything about it.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 08:31:46 AM
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2011, 08:32:34 AM
Here is the differences. Food plots for many people is the only way they can harvest a deer. Everyone with property has food plots so if you want deer on your property and a chance to shoot them then you have to have a food plot. Whereas shooting an elk over a hay pile from the road during the winter at the feed station is not the only way you can shoot an elk. Lets face it the people that do this are not hunters. They are extremely lazy and they do it because they can and its the easiest way to get an elk.
Food plots are almost always on private property. Anybody can hunt from a food plot. If they have property they can make their own food plot. If a food plot is on state land then anyone can hunt off of it. It isn't restricted to a certain race of people. There are hunt clubs that have food plots that pretty much anyone can join you just have to pay club fees. Whereas the bulls being shot over a hay pile are being killed on public and state land that is paid for and owned by the state, its taxpayers and the people who buy hunting licenses. The Yakamas don't contribute to this land, they don't own it. They just take from it. It would be like if I went to a hunt clubs property and hunted off of their food plot and killed one of their bucks. I didn't pay to hunt that property or to be in that club, I didn't help cultivate the food plots. No I just went over and reaped the benefits of their hard work. The Yakamas can join our hunt club, they just have to buy a hunting license.
People who have food plots also spent alot of time and money making those food plots so that they could have a quality deer hunting experience. It was also on their property. What did the Yakamas do to help out so that there are elk that they can shoot off of hay piles? The Yakamas didn't do anything.
Finally you don't see a guy with a food plot harvesting multiple animals off of it every day. He doesn't have half his village come over and hunt off of his food plot harvesting as many deer as they can off of his property. No most people only harvest what they need, and practise Quality Deer Management. Meaning they harvest a specific buck to doe ratio for the best results for their property. Whereas the Yakamas don't do anything related to Quality Game Managemnt. They just go up and shoot what they can shoot. Heck they don't even have harvest results. Thats basic to any managment. :twocents:
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2011, 08:33:12 AM
I want to quote that second paragraph and have it published in the herald along with buckmasters pics. Well Said.
I'd be honored bone if you'd do that.
Post by: BlackRidge on January 01, 2011, 08:50:18 AM
I agree things need to change with native American hunting off the reservations to equality for all.
Keep in mind, you piss the members off too much and they could increase the harvest and number of hunters just to spite you (us)!!!
A thought out, respectful, factual discussion/letter goes a long ways.
....because its been so successful so-far
Post by: Weatherbyfan on January 01, 2011, 09:02:24 AM
i didnt hear what the charges were but they did get writen up for something.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 09:07:30 AM
Post by: bobcat on January 01, 2011, 09:12:39 AM
Post by: whiteeyes on January 01, 2011, 09:23:30 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 01, 2011, 09:50:43 AM
And I see nothing wrong with posting these pictures online. If I would have had the foresight to grab my camera, I would have done the same thing. In fact, I think buck should contact the newspaper and maybe some news stations (we all know there isn't much news in Yakima anyway) to see if they are interested in the story and pictures.
It is truly sad that they would be so proud of their actions; they are neither admirable or remotely okay.
I'm game to go to the WDFW meetings, whenever they are.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 09:57:44 AM
Post by: Alan K on January 01, 2011, 11:52:46 AM
Lastly, and probably the most disturbing to me...Most people are going to look at those pictures and use the following observations to base their anger: The two guys are Indian, they aren't wearing camo, they have multiple animals in the back, they have a tribal sticker in the window, they are overweight. All these things, although irrelevant to the treaty hunting discussion on this forum, will invoke emotion out of people involved in the discussion. This is no different than the tactic enviros use to push their agenda.
Sure looks like subsistence hunting to me. . . :rolleyes: Pictures like this show these guys are NOT starving (their weight), and are NOT too poor to purchase food from a store (nice pickup and sweet bling bling rims). The pictures just scream thrill kill, kill for fun, or kill to stick it to the white man and his feeding stations. Not kill for subsistence, as the treaties were intended.
In order to get people to take action you need some sort of emotional drive, and pictures like this do a lot more for provoking action than someone coming on here and just saying "I saw an indian with two big bulls in the back of this truck leaving the feed station".
Take for example humane society commercials. . . You can tell people 10,000,000 animals are killed every year in shelters by euthanization until the cows come home, but I'd bet their commercials showing maybe 10 of the animals in their cages have more impact on the viewer than hearing the statistic alone.
In my opinion we need to be out there videotaping and taking more pictures like this so we can expose these scumbags and their *censored* and hopefully someday get the general public to understand what's going on. Only then will anything have a chance in hell at being changed.
Post by: Coastal_native on January 01, 2011, 12:07:08 PM
It's good to hear from you again, I knew someone would rip appart my post.
Actually the only thing that "strikes a deep chord" with me is that you've taken my opinions from my post and turned them into a me vs. you argument. If you feel as strongly as you do about all that you've said, you are more than welcome to just go out and say it...I shouldn't be your motivation. I should have stuck to the point that I didn't agree with posting the pictures and left all the other crap out. The pictures read like a Native American treaty hunting political attack ad. It's not entirely representative of treaty hunting, but it will be used to say "this is treaty hunting".
You took my comment about the foodplot out of context. I think at that point you were probably so mad that you just wanted to argue :chuckle:. Buckmaster made a comment that any retard or idiot can shoot elk from a road at a feeding station(or something like that). Well, anyone can climb up in a tree house and shoot a deer from a food plot too, the only prerequisite is that you can shoot a gun. I was only comparing the two as being two hunting (or killing) styles that don't really appeal to me. Actually I specifically said that I don't like the idea of killing animals from a feeding station when they are vulnerable. In any case, I fully understand the differences of the two. I was surprised you thought otherwise.
If those pictures are what everyone on here wants, then all I can do is wine. It just seems like dirty politics to me, although I don't think that was Buckmaster's intent. He feels strongly about the issue and was being proactive, which I guess I can't argue with...I can only stomp my feet and wine. I wasn't trying to stand up for the Yak/feeding station situation. I was only trying to protect the integrity of the treaty hunting discussion by not putting it on individuals. These weren't pictures of Indians killing elk at a feeding station, they were pictures of Indians standing next to there truck with game in the back. It was a very good picture, if you're trying to capture what the general public's stereo typical Indian Hunter looks like. Again, I'm not sure how that helps.
It sounds like these guys were in the wrong anyway, which wasn't clear to me at first, so I apologize to buckmaster for jumping the gun and opening my mouth. If they were doing something illegal, then they are poachers and they get what they deserve.
I'll give you the last word in the me vs. you argument, I promise....
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:29:55 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 01, 2011, 12:35:06 PM
These weren't pictures of Indians killing elk at a feeding station, they were pictures of Indians standing next to there truck with game in the back. It was a very good picture, if you're trying to capture what the general public's stereo typical Indian Hunter looks like.
I don't think this is the image that the general public has for native hunters. The majority of the general public believes what they have seen in movies and read in history books. The general public that I've talked to think that Natives: use every piece of the animal, are at one with nature, treat wild animals like family, only kill for the amount of meat they need, etc. That same general public thinks the white hunters are the ones that killed Bambi, only kill for horns, shoot all the buffalo for their tongues, killed all the wolves, etc. If you tell somebody lies long enough, they will believe them.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:41:07 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2Ffinpoacher3.jpg&hash=a8413a15b2508477760b367aff27e91bf1f4040c)
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:42:09 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:42:51 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:44:07 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2Fweekhead2.jpg&hash=50367f6898ea8c77e8218041ac6404d63f46cce7)
Post by: 400out on January 01, 2011, 12:47:26 PM
I wish I was a highly educated soul I would spend my free time trying like hell to do something about this (if there is anything to be done)
Very sad! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 12:55:58 PM
Post by: 400out on January 01, 2011, 01:02:28 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 01, 2011, 01:03:36 PM
Bone, what is the blue on the gut pile? It seems to be out of the ordinary or am I seeing thing :dunno: almost looks like writting
looks like garbage to me like a grocery bag
Post by: 400out on January 01, 2011, 01:06:02 PM
Your probably right, Thanks run I knew something looked out of place :hello:Bone, what is the blue on the gut pile? It seems to be out of the ordinary or am I seeing thing :dunno: almost looks like writting
looks like garbage to me like a grocery bag
Post by: rhc2000 on January 01, 2011, 01:18:57 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 01, 2011, 01:20:23 PM
These animals were shot 200 yards above the hay piles in the Nile feeding station. The guys who did this were quite proud of there accomplishment. I told them how worthless they were and how any retard can go and shoot elk in a feeding station. The one laughed and said " Isn't it great." My buddy and I stuck around for a few minutes and voiced our opinions and the three of them just laughed it off.
Buckmaster,
This one has the potential to get even more heated down the road...so I thought I'd express my distaste for your actions now in order to get a head start :chuckle:. I don't agree with harassing the two men or posting their pics online in attempt to discredit them. If they were outside of the feeding area (I think you said they were?) and were not violating any game laws under their jurisdiction, I don't understand your actions. I don't agree with killing animals when they are that vulnerable or doing it in the manor it was probably done, but i also don't agree with killing deer out of a treehouse over a food plot either...I try to keep my mouth shut though because I understand my idea of hunting is different than others. It's also typical of hunters to kill animals outside the edges of areas that are closed to hunting, so I don't necessarily understand the problem with the Yaks taking advantage of the feeding stations. They could probably use a little harassment this time of year anyway to prevent them from congregating in large numbers and spreading disease.
I personally don't like the idea of hand feeding "wild animals", but I understand why it is done. IMO, if the habitat base and population size is such that you have to supplemental feed why not just take the surplus animals that would likely die in the woods of starvation and put them in your annual harvest quota for peoples freezers. Big game mgmt must be difficult over there regardless of the treaty hunting.
Lastly, and probably the most disturbing to me...Most people are going to look at those pictures and use the following observations to base their anger: The two guys are Indian, they aren't wearing camo, they have multiple animals in the back, they have a tribal sticker in the window, they are overweight. All these things, although irrelevant to the treaty hunting discussion on this forum, will invoke emotion out of people involved in the discussion. This is no different than the tactic enviros use to push their agenda.
Sorry if I sound like an ass. Feel free to rip my post appart. Happy New Years.
And there in lies the problem. This kind of horse *censored* is legal for them. what kind of screwed up "Nation" thinks this is exceptable?
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 01:22:08 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 01:24:13 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on January 01, 2011, 01:45:56 PM
Post by: Special T on January 01, 2011, 01:55:13 PM
I've heard people complain about other tribes, but i am curious about one thing? What examples do we have of tribes punishing of their own members for violating TRIBAL rules???
I've commented before that many other tribes at least have some kind of guidelines for harvesting animals on/off the rez.... The Yakimas seem to have none... Is this because the tribe is thumbing their nose at the WDFW and the rest of us? Or do they think there really is no need for some common senses rules regarding harvest? Mind you their regs would not make very many non tribal hunters but some kind management just the same.... I must say there is a big difference between the acts of some individuals and the whole tribe, however if the tribe is not concerned about how member reflect on the tribe then it may not be a stretch to say that the tribe condones this... They may not publicly, but by omission....
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2011, 02:14:00 PM
Colockum,
It's good to hear from you again, I knew someone would rip appart my post.
That's what I do. :chuckle:
I did not mean for it to come out as a us vs you thing. So I went back and edited the us part and replaced it with what I meant. I was just lazy and put us. Which I shouldn't include the word "us" since I didn't build, design or invent any of those things. :chuckle: I did invent the Flux Capacitor though, so your welcome for that. Now time travel is a reality. :chuckle:
As far as being mad I wasn't angry at all. I know you hate tree stands and food plots, its not my favorite type of hunting either but since I've been forced to hunt from a stand I can understand why people do it. I was just trying to explain why I don't think the two were a fair comparison.
None of this was aimed at you. I was merely trying to state my opinion. I didn't mean to piss you off or be controversial at all. I know these pictures do not put the American Indian in a positive light. But what else would you have us do. We complain about what goes on over here and no one listens. The WDFW doesn't do anything about it. The Tribes don't either. Even when they break the law nothing is done. Our complaints fall on deaf ears. What needs to happen is the Yakamas need to police their own. Hold their members accountable. But they don't and they refuse to. So this is our last recourse.
Like others said when the non-hunting populace goes up to the feed stations and they see gut piles and blood they instantly think of a White-Poacher and the blame falls on us. I know because as a hunter I used to think it was white poachers, until I witnessed the things stated above for myself. Well I am sick of state hunters being blamed for this. We are not attacking anybody. This is self-defense. Its self-defense in that because we are taking the blame for what is happening off of us and putting the blame where it belongs on the Yakamas. If somebody blamed you for something that you didn't do wouldn't you want to defend your honor and prove your innocense and make sure that the blame fell on whoever did it.? That's all we are trying to do.
It is not an isolated incident. It gets worse and worse every year. More people have figured out that nothing will happen to them so they go out and get a free meal. And starting today they can't shoot cows and does. So instead of cows and does its going to be a couple of bulls and bucks in the back of the truck. If you were a resident living on the east side and not a tribal member what would you do?
Again I wasn't tryingto offend you or piss you off. But this is what we see day in and day out up there. And it gets worse and worse every year. Wasnt trying to provoke you at all. And I know if I got you all riled up then I must have said something pretty bad. So sorry about that.
Post by: colockumelk on January 01, 2011, 02:16:26 PM
I must say there is a big difference between the acts of some individuals and the whole tribe, however if the tribe is not concerned about how member reflect on the tribe then it may not be a stretch to say that the tribe condones this... They may not publicly, but by omission....
:yeah:
Wish I could be more consise instead of rambling like I do.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 01, 2011, 02:44:29 PM
And there in lies the problem. This kind of horse *censored* is legal for them. what kind of screwed up "Nation" thinks this is exceptable?
I'm of the thought that laws sometimes establish what are acceptable ethics. If the state game laws were applicable (and the punishment enforced), then I would think that the natives would adapt and adhere to different ethics. There are differences in acceptable ethics between non-tribal groups. Just think how many people think baiting bear and using hounds is ethical, but the majority of the voters in this state didn't seem to think so. So now there isn't much choice but to comply with those laws. I would suppose the natives that operate within the law wouldn't do the things mentioned anymore if there were laws against it. It doesn't seem acceptable to non-natives for the natives to kill large numbers of elk and let them lay eventhough it is legal for them. Kind of like it is legal and acceptable for non-tribals to kill large numbers of coyotes and let them lay.
Post by: Coastal_native on January 01, 2011, 02:48:47 PM
I said I'd give you the last word...but..um...ergghh...ok, good post. That's all I wanted to say.
Bone,
Those pictures tell the real story. That activity puts both hunters and tribal members in a negative public light. Seeing entrails in the woods during general seasons is different than seeing it on the side of a road next to a refuge area in the winter. The garbage is even more disturbing. If you're under the impression I think any of that is acceptable then I've not done a good job outlining my beliefs. I would have no problem with those pictures being included with an article that outlines the current situation over there...the situation being that the current tribal rules have the potential to cause controversy...for hunters, tribal members, and the general public.
My idea of the Yaks hunting on the outskirts of the feeding stations has changed somewhat over the course of this thread. We have a situation on the westside in a GMU where the state has cultivated mitigation fields for elk habitat. These elk tend to over winter on the fields. Both the state and tribe sometimes issue depredation hunts for cows clear into January. It has the potential to be a turkey shoot, but it is a completely different situation and not as visible to the public eye. This may have blurred my vision.
I'm constantly arguing (with people that aren't quite as enthusiastic about hunting) that wildlife can be enjoyed by both hunters and people who simply like to view wildlife. The situation over there kind of contradicts my argument and gives enviro wack jobs ammunition.
Post by: bchance38 on January 01, 2011, 03:24:13 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2011, 04:19:21 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 01, 2011, 08:05:27 PM
As for the location of where they killed the elk.
At the Nile feeding station they feed the elk in a large meadow that sits below the road maybe 20 yards. The meadow is about 300 yards long and 75 yards deep. These guys were waiting on the road for the elk to come down the hill to the feed lot. They then shot them on the uphill side of the road and drug them down to there trucks. So they were litterally 200 yards up the hill from the hay piles. They have probably done this before and knew that it would be easier to shoot them up hill then to shoot them down in the feed lot. This way it would be much easier to retrieve the game.
Something else that put a bad taste in my mouth was when I was leaving and had just passed the feed lot there were three rigs coming up the road. All with woman and children in the vehicles. I stopped the first rig and explained the situation to the lady and she thanked me and turned around so the children wouldn't see the kill site.
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 08:50:30 AM
Post by: logger on January 02, 2011, 09:06:12 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 09:08:47 AM
Post by: grundy53 on January 02, 2011, 09:20:04 AM
I guess I'm naive to this, BUT why do we have to call tribal police to enforce activity's on public land? To me that would be the same as calling mexican police to arrest a illegal in yakama. If a crime is committed on tribal ground call tribal police, if it's committed in the united states then you would call the proper dept. that would handle such a case. You can bet your ass I couldn't go to foriegn country and tromp all over their rules and laws and get away with it and then they call the u.s. to deal with me, once I stepped over the border I'm playing by their rules. :twocents:
:tup: :tup: EXACTLY
Post by: grundy53 on January 02, 2011, 09:21:49 AM
FINALLY someone who gets why I think this Soveriegn nation *censored* is for the birds. You are either American or not.
i've always thought that too. either you american or your not. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 02, 2011, 09:33:51 AM
worked out of Toppenish for 12 years and had 3 drivers that were full blood Yakamas, and they did not agree with the wasting of salmon by their own relatives at Dallesport, One of them said the U.S. should of never started the reservation deal=his quote "should have killed us all, or put us in the general population,not set aside as a special entity" Kind of shocked me at the time,but I saw the rez as a land of little opportunity, and very few people that new how to pull themselves out and move on. But for a lot of them, the government owes it to them ,to take care of them.
Just do not know how to fix it with the game laws, wish I did.
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 02, 2011, 10:07:25 AM
So how do we fix it??
But for a lot of them, the government owes it to them ,to take care of them.
Just do not know how to fix it with the game laws, wish I did.
I hope that you dont think that the government owes it to them. I believe it is the Governments fault that they are such a uneducated and underachieved race. They have been spoon fed for 155 years. It has crippled them. I feel the same for people who are on welfare for there whole life and never go out and find a job. They have no work ethic and have no desire to get a job. The statistics show that 85% of people who lose there welfare or run out on there unemployment find jobs within the first two weeks of running out of funds. Kinda crazy uh.
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 02, 2011, 10:10:45 AM
Post by: ribka on January 02, 2011, 10:20:12 AM
Can natives shoot from the road?
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 02, 2011, 10:26:32 AM
Excellent letter Josh.
Post by: kirkl on January 02, 2011, 10:29:14 AM
Post by: ribka on January 02, 2011, 10:33:25 AM
where is hanson road pond? is it farther out past wenas lake?
About another 8-10 miles past lake towards Ellensburg
Post by: whiteeyes on January 02, 2011, 11:44:16 AM
Another elk shot 01/01/2011 by Hansen Pond Road in unit 342. I did not witness only saw the recent signs ( see photo) Someone shot it from the road, backed up their truck and loaded it up.
Can natives shoot from the road?
Head north of Ellensburg you will see spots like that all across from Reecer Creek to Vantage. Right of the road, Master Hunters are having a good year. Seen one last weekend using a snowmobile to drag it to there truck up in the Coleman.
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 12:13:20 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 12:31:25 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 02, 2011, 12:40:35 PM
Might as well open it up to all hunters. Shoot em all. Why practice any sort of conservation.Sad that so many play by all the rules, and end up with tag soup , but still go out next year vowing to work harder and do it the right way. I guess the good guys just don"t always win!
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 12:41:49 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 12:46:48 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 12:51:49 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 12:56:25 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,65250.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,65250.0.html)
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 12:57:15 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 01:13:51 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 02, 2011, 01:16:08 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2011, 01:36:05 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 02, 2011, 02:03:43 PM
Post by: BlackRidge on January 02, 2011, 03:43:50 PM
Think of the stations as the states attempt to cope with outside factors
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 02, 2011, 05:20:55 PM
Post by: wackmaster on January 02, 2011, 09:12:05 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on January 02, 2011, 09:45:11 PM
When are you gonna whip those guys into shape...you gotta teach them how to get their freezers filled up earlier before those elk head for the homeless shelter. :chuckle: I don't mind a few people doing a little population control and providing meat for family members...but sometimes you gotta practice a little common sense and PR awareness. I'm sure it's just a handful of guys that probably don't care what people think...but man, I don't think they understand the effect they're having on the potential ticking time bomb you guys have going on over there with hunting issues...(at least from my perspective).
I'm glad there are guys like you trying to help ease the tension.
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 03, 2011, 11:44:55 AM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 03, 2011, 01:16:38 PM
Make sure to watch the news tonight.
Post by: fishunt247 on January 03, 2011, 03:46:27 PM
Looking forward to the news tonight. It sure seems like this topic has been brought to public light more so this year than in any year I remember (though that isn't too many years).
Post by: Cougeyes on January 03, 2011, 03:53:16 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 05:42:45 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on January 03, 2011, 05:52:02 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 06:23:52 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 03, 2011, 06:29:29 PM
Post by: kirkl on January 03, 2011, 06:36:31 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 03, 2011, 06:42:36 PM
Post by: huntergreg on January 03, 2011, 06:48:35 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 03, 2011, 06:55:44 PM
Post by: norsepeak on January 03, 2011, 07:14:43 PM
Post by: Tman on January 03, 2011, 07:16:56 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 03, 2011, 07:22:43 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 03, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 03, 2011, 07:29:58 PM
A lot of people on here do not know how much time I 've put into these issues at first I thought I wasting time but seems like the tribe is finally going to step to the plate and punish the guys that r giving the yakamas a bad name. I have even talked to the tribal game warden supervisor about a lot of issues that happen off reservation. He told me their is a lot of dissrespect towards them when their off reservation patrolling, I just hope everyone knows u a little bit of respect goes along ways. P. S. I hope the tribe keeps prosecuting these guys. Now maybe some of the dumb people will think twice before doing illegal stuff.
Thank you!
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 08:08:15 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on January 03, 2011, 08:12:49 PM
I believe this is an appropriate time for me to insert my foot in my mouth for disagreeing with buckmaster's actions. I really was clueless to what was really going on. This is great stuff. It's kind of cool to see it all develop on this website.
Thank you buckmaster, and sorry for doubting. And thank you in advance for not holding this over my head in the future.
Post by: boneaddict on January 03, 2011, 08:24:33 PM
Quote
I have a question are the master hunters shooting elk on their wintering range too, if so how come no one is out there taking pics and video and calling them a bunch of poachers. Same thing as what the guys at clover springs got in trouble for
They're damage control hunts or permits drawn and sanctioned by the WDFW as needed(they call you). Its not a general Master hunter extravaganza where they can all go out and shoot as many as they want, where they want. You have to be called even if you have drawn, you may not get the call.
(Personally I think all big game hunting should be wrapped up by now)
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 08:30:07 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 03, 2011, 08:32:32 PM
Post by: runamuk on January 03, 2011, 08:41:18 PM
I assume orchards and haystacks. :dunno:christmas tree farms over here get damaged by them
its not just the crops elk are hard on fences unlike domestic animals they dont respect fencing much and will plow right through it....fencing is expensive and having stock get out is also expensive....so damage is not always about immediate damage to a crop...
Post by: biggdogg on January 03, 2011, 08:43:03 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 03, 2011, 08:50:50 PM
Post by: huntergreg on January 03, 2011, 09:04:50 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 03, 2011, 09:13:43 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 03, 2011, 09:19:51 PM
Post by: colockumelk on January 03, 2011, 09:51:55 PM
A lot of people on here do not know how much time I 've put into these issues at first I thought I wasting time but seems like the tribe is finally going to step to the plate and punish the guys that r giving the yakamas a bad name. I have even talked to the tribal game warden supervisor about a lot of issues that happen off reservation. He told me their is a lot of dissrespect towards them when their off reservation patrolling, I just hope everyone knows u a little bit of respect goes along ways. P. S. I hope the tribe keeps prosecuting these guys. Now maybe some of the dumb people will think twice before doing illegal stuff.
Thank you!
:yeah:
Thankyou. Its people like you who make a differene. Policing your own is the first step. I've always said that before you point fingers at others you should look in the mirror first. As for disrespect to a law enforcement oficer some people are stupid. What's that saying. "You'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar." :dunno: Just saying people.
In the Colockum they do not feed the elk. Also unlike every other elk herd there is not a game fence so they come down and "damage" crops. Although the hay farmers allow cattle on the hay fields during the winter and somehow 1500lb cattle don't hurt the hay fields but a 500lb elk does. :dunno: Don't get me started on the Master Hunter program in the Kittitas valley I'll go off on a never ending rant on that one. >:(
Post by: muleyguy on January 03, 2011, 10:34:02 PM
Quote
In the Colockum they do not feed the elk. Also unlike every other elk herd there is not a game fence so they come down and "damage" crops. Although the hay farmers allow cattle on the hay fields during the winter and somehow 1500lb cattle don't hurt the hay fields but a 500lb elk does.
the Yakima herd has to be handled differently because of the nature of the agricultural crops grown here; modern apple and cherry orchards can cost upwards of $20,000 per acre to establish and can generate an additional $10,000 to $20,000 a year in gross revenues;
if the Yakima herd was not fenced, and fed, and was allowed to roam wherever they wanted, the WDFW would literally be on the hook for millions of dollars of crop damage every year; the difference with alfalfa, and other open land type of crops, is that the revenue and cost to establish per acre is in the hundreds of dollars and not the tens of thousands of dollars.
the fencing and feeding allow the Yakima herd to be much larger then would otherwise be the case; there is no doubt that the feeding station creates a "welfare" kind of mentality in the elk herd, but, that is exactly what is needed in this situation because it concentrates the animals in an area where they will do little if any crop damage. If they suddenly drastically reduced the feeding program to try and "train" the elk to forage on their own, they would quickly be in the middle of these orchards.
So, all in all, what they are doing with feeding the Yakima herd is what is needed to maintain the size of the herd so that we can all enjoy the opportunities that this herd provides.
Post by: whiteeyes on January 04, 2011, 08:45:32 AM
Good to see the Yakamas taking action against the few renegades that are making the rest of the Tribe look bad. Its a positive direction for all.
Post by: b23 on January 04, 2011, 08:49:58 AM
Post by: kirkl on January 04, 2011, 08:58:38 AM
Post by: Cougeyes on January 04, 2011, 09:56:22 AM
I will jump in since im a master hunter. Master hunters do not need to be called to shoot a cow up to December 31st. there is now a draw only hunt going on where you have to be called but there is only like 20 tags for the kittitas area. it amazes me that everyone will bitch about stuff but give kudos to all the guys that have been killing bulls and cows in the teanaway with there late tags. is that not the same thing? killing elk in december?
I dont agree with elk harvest past November permit or MHE unless absolutely warranted due to land owner damage. Although members on here have harvested several nice teanaway bulls I do not agree with that hunt. I wish that state would change the season of that hunt to coincide with the seasons of Peaches ridge. The teanaway season is the way it is due to the bulls wintering on private ground and getting into hay, knocking down fences etc... the hunt is a way to keep pressure on them and keep them off private ground. I dont feel that the amount of harvest is such that it would have an effect on population size but i dont like the fact that we are able to hunt elk on their wintering grounds.
Post by: Practical Approach on January 04, 2011, 09:58:54 AM
They claim the poachers are going to be tried within the "yakimas" system. What's that really mean? Let me guess. NOTHING!!!How about you follow up with the tribe and report back to all of us, so that all of us know what happens?
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 01:29:24 PM
Post by: norsepeak on January 04, 2011, 01:35:07 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 04, 2011, 01:36:39 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on January 04, 2011, 01:52:39 PM
Good job Buckmaster!
Good job Buckmaster!:yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on January 04, 2011, 01:59:20 PM
I agree Kirkl. I'm not a big fan of the gov/raffle tags hunting in December either. (Its a double standard as I admit it would be fun as hell, but I don't agree with it) I haven't been real popular speaking out against that. Same with that Teanaway hunt.
Post by: jager on January 04, 2011, 02:01:15 PM
Post by: gasman on January 04, 2011, 02:54:02 PM
KIMA News had me meet them at the Oak Creek feeding station today. They interviewed me regarding the tribal hunting issue. Watch the news tonight at 5pm.
Someone record it, or post a link for us west siders that don't get the local news over there.
Post by: hirshey on January 04, 2011, 04:17:27 PM
KIMA News had me meet them at the Oak Creek feeding station today. They interviewed me regarding the tribal hunting issue. Watch the news tonight at 5pm.
Two thumbs up! Thanks for doing this! Hope someone can post a link!
Post by: Cougeyes on January 04, 2011, 05:12:51 PM
NICE Buckmaster. Way to keep on this!
I agree Kirkl. I'm not a big fan of the gov/raffle tags hunting in December either. (Its a double standard as I admit it would be fun as hell, but I don't agree with it) I haven't been real popular speaking out against that. Same with that Teanaway hunt.
I suppose i'm on the same page, and consider myself a hypocrite to some extent when it comes to both raffle tags and the teanaway hunt. I dont like the idea of hunting animals in December but if there's a season and potential for me to hunt i'm not going to sit it out and not buy a raffle or put in for the permit. I dont make the season decisions.
Post by: 400out on January 04, 2011, 05:15:24 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 05:17:38 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 05:30:39 PM
Post by: 400out on January 04, 2011, 05:33:21 PM
They did the story at the very beginning of the segment. They cut a lot of stuff but at least the work is out. The tribal police said that they are short staffed. The Tribal police also said they have no intention on raising the $500 fine that is in store for natives caught poaching.Couldn't expect anything more :bash: to bad it wasn't on a news :twocents: station that isn't so close to the indian community! Your right atleast the word is out!
Post by: wablkandtan on January 04, 2011, 05:34:38 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 05:50:17 PM
Post by: klickman on January 04, 2011, 06:52:48 PM
KLICKMAN
Post by: Special T on January 04, 2011, 07:02:32 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 04, 2011, 07:07:40 PM
But, better than nothing.
Post by: huntandjeep on January 04, 2011, 07:14:33 PM
Post by: colockumelk on January 04, 2011, 07:44:53 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 08:13:08 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 08:17:27 PM
Post by: norsepeak on January 04, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
Post by: kirkl on January 04, 2011, 08:42:19 PM
Post by: kirkl on January 04, 2011, 08:45:24 PM
NICE Buckmaster. Way to keep on this!
I agree Kirkl. I'm not a big fan of the gov/raffle tags hunting in December either. (Its a double standard as I admit it would be fun as hell, but I don't agree with it) I haven't been real popular speaking out against that. Same with that Teanaway hunt.
I suppose i'm on the same page, and consider myself a hypocrite to some extent when it comes to both raffle tags and the teanaway hunt. I dont like the idea of hunting animals in December but if there's a season and potential for me to hunt i'm not going to sit it out and not buy a raffle or put in for the permit. I dont make the season decisions.
Post by: Cougeyes on January 04, 2011, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: hoyt2002 on January 04, 2011, 08:56:27 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 04, 2011, 09:28:49 PM
I dont think they will change much if they just get $500 citations. :dunno:
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on January 04, 2011, 09:44:59 PM
Post by: royalhntr on January 05, 2011, 05:42:43 AM
Post by: biggdogg on January 05, 2011, 05:43:22 AM
Post by: Special T on January 05, 2011, 07:24:32 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 05, 2011, 07:34:51 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 05, 2011, 07:35:48 AM
If the Tribal hunters shot animals off private property wouldn't they be subject to Wa state Law instead of tribal? Was the property posted? if so they could be charged with trespass???e
Yes they can be charged with trespass.
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 05, 2011, 10:06:42 AM
As for the seeing ten times more Native hunters shooting animals next winter I find that hard to believe. I think the locals up in the Nile are really getting fed up with this problem and they are starting to follow them into the feeding station area. I wouldn't be surprised if one of these incidents ends up in a shoot out. And that's no joke I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. I'm not saying its right I just think that it could happen. Some locals up in Packwood a few years back said that they got the message accross to the natives by shooting there trucks. Again I dint think this is a good idea but there are some crazy people out there and sometimes they get pushed over the edge. My buddy that was at the clover springs feeding station with me on Friday is an Iraq veteran with a strong case of PTSD he has a very short fuse. I am glad that the WDFW was there or else there might have been more then just words exchanged.
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 05, 2011, 10:39:36 AM
Post by: jstone on January 05, 2011, 02:14:50 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 05, 2011, 02:50:16 PM
Post by: 400out on January 05, 2011, 02:52:53 PM
They're about to get keys. Thread on here about it.>:( :bs:
Post by: hirshey on January 05, 2011, 02:56:54 PM
They're about to get keys. Thread on here about it.
All to buy some votes. What a crock.
Post by: jdb on January 05, 2011, 03:00:02 PM
Post by: Tony on January 05, 2011, 03:25:09 PM
Yes Matsons property is posted. So hopefully the guys that were caught shooting the bull on his land get a little more then a $500 fine.
Maybe i missed something but i thought the bull that was shot was down in the meadow were they feed during the winter? Matsons property ends right before the meadow but a couple of years ago once they started feeding that posted no trespassing signs by the WDFW.
Post by: viper55 on January 05, 2011, 03:30:03 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 05, 2011, 04:20:42 PM
Post by: Dan-o on January 05, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
My hat is also off to Coastal Native, who seems to take a fair amount of crap, but always comes back with some pretty provocative thoughts..... (and even admitted when he was wrong. I thought real men never did that on the internet) ;)
Sure is a mess, and I'd love to see it get cleaned up.
Post by: Coastal_native on January 05, 2011, 08:02:32 PM
My hat is also off to Coastal Native, who seems to take a fair amount of crap, but always comes back with some pretty provocative thoughts..... (and even admitted when he was wrong. I thought real men never did that on the internet) ;)
Well...wrong is a pretty harsh word :) That was easy to admit...those guys were pretty indefensible in their actions, as are all poachers. I think this actually worked out how it is suppose to, even though some are unhappy with the low monetary fine. This is not specific to the Yakama's, but if you shed light to a problem that puts a government (like a tribal government) in a negative public light, they will most likely take action to protect their public image. The more you put the government into a REACTIVE position...the more likely they will be to take a PROACTIVE approach. Like I said in a previous post, tribes in general take pride in being able to self regulate themselves. If anyone is unfamiliar with the self determination act, I would suggest looking into it. Tribes strongly believe that they can take care of themselves and control their own future...without the constant oversight of big brother. Help show them areas that need improvement without using hatred as your MO...and you will probably have some success. I would even suggest sending letters or calling in to tribal officials...I would recommend using some diplomacy, though. If anyone wants a lesson on diplomacy just read some of FC's posts...and do the opposite :chuckle: that was a joke, but he does have a way with words that will leave you like this >:( (I just broke my vow to never use a red angry face emoticon).
Post by: Practical Approach on January 05, 2011, 08:07:45 PM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 05, 2011, 11:06:32 PM
Still wanting to see pics of Tribal Members in a fenced feeding station killing elk with hay in their mouth? If it is a feeding station they should get a bigger fine from the state because it is a no shooting zone. But I do not know of any elk killed in oak Creek station behind the fence with everyone watching. Not saying their is not a problem just saying some people are full of SHI*.
YakNDN, I must admit that I have not heard of anyone shooting elk through the fence at the oak creek feeding station. I dont know why they said that on the news. I even told the guy when he interviewed me that the incident did not take place at this feeding station and he replied that he knew that it was at the Clover springs feeding station he just did not want to go that far to meet me. Regardless they still shot elk our of a feeding station and its wrong. The only difference between the two feeding stations is one has a fence and the other does not.
Post by: huntergreg on January 06, 2011, 12:51:40 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 06, 2011, 01:03:18 PM
Post by: b23 on January 06, 2011, 01:56:01 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on January 06, 2011, 02:00:11 PM
Post by: 400out on January 06, 2011, 02:21:11 PM
"Tribes strongly believe that they can take care of themselves and control their own future..." As long as they keep getting that U.S.A Government money. Lets see how well they can "take care of themselves and control their own future" if the tribes STOP getting money from the United States of America....as long as there are casinos you will never get to the point where natives don't get U.S money! How about you get the prudes that run this and other states to realize what allowing the opening of casinos would bring to their economies versus take away :twocents: There is my 2 cents I'm not working so can't afford to give you anymore ;)
Post by: buckmaster_wa on January 08, 2011, 08:27:01 PM
He also thanked me for bringing this issue to light and gave me his personal cell phone to contact him if I see any illegal activity.
Post by: fishunt247 on January 08, 2011, 08:36:21 PM
Post by: denali on January 08, 2011, 08:45:13 PM
Post by: wablkandtan on January 17, 2011, 08:08:44 PM
Post by: ribka on January 17, 2011, 08:24:55 PM
Hopefully we can curtail this activity
Good job!! :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: whiteeyes on January 18, 2011, 08:49:41 AM
4 gut piles on 1701 today. lookin for sheds and heard 3 shots made it back to the truck and saw a truck up ahead trying to get up the road. decided to investigate. found fresh blood and a drag mark from a deer. truck got away so i decided to wait them out. 20 minutes later down came the truck and about $hit when they saw me. 3 INDIANS NEWER RED/MAROON QUAD CAB DODGE. THE TRUCK HAD STICKERS ON IT THAT SAID MIKE OLSON DODGE 50TH ANIVERSERY. STICKER WAS ON FRONT WINDSHIELD AND TAILGATE. REMEMBER I DID NOT SEE FOR SURE THE GUYS KILL ANYTHING BUT ITS KIND OF WEIRD. GUT PILES WERE OLDER HAD SOME SNOW OVER THEM AND THE PREDATORS WERE WORKIN THEM. HOPEFULLY OL BUCKMASTER WILL CALL THE TRIBE AND REPORT THIS. >:( >:( >:( >:(
So did you go look at the gut piles ? Maybe you would have seen cougar tracks around the gut piles. Did you have a firearm with you? Is it illegal to shot a firearm in that area? Is it illegal for Indians to be in this area? All kinds of scenarios, just because there has been so much attention lately about Indians doesn't necessarily mean every Indian you see in the hills is doing something you disagree with. Just sayin..........................
Post by: biggdogg on January 18, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 18, 2011, 09:34:21 PM
Post by: wablkandtan on January 19, 2011, 09:33:41 PM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on January 20, 2011, 07:22:47 AM
Post by: Raul Duke on January 20, 2011, 08:06:33 AM
So I asked the driver, "How you do this fall? Fill your tag?"
driver- " you bet, lol, I got me 2 great bulls and my kids each got one. 1 cow 1 spike."
"Shot us a few deer also."
I asked what area he hunted, since he got 2 bulls.
"My wife is Yakama, and the kids and each enrolled as 1/2 yakamas." I hunt anywhere I want"
I kind of chuckled to myself, if you can't beat, them. Join them I guess.
so how do you guys look at this? If he was Indian, he would of got bashed on this site.
But if he comes on here with pics of a great 7x7 and says he got it on the Rez. would any one question it?
MYSELF, I was discusted that he was almost bragging he uses his kids and a free hunt pass.
Post by: jstone on January 20, 2011, 08:53:36 AM
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2011, 01:31:32 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 20, 2011, 05:43:08 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 20, 2011, 08:50:42 PM
So biggdogg, that man can hunt on the rez just because his wife is an enrolled member? Seems like he has no right to hunt, and it seems like this is something that would make truly enrolled members furious.
Seems like another case of "rights" taken too far.
Post by: Special T on January 20, 2011, 09:43:47 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 21, 2011, 05:57:00 AM
Post by: Whitefoot on January 21, 2011, 03:20:20 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on January 21, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
My animals shot are for food too. That white guy should have to do the same.
I'm not even sure how a white man shooting an elk has any connection to ceremony anyways.
Post by: Whitefoot on January 21, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on January 21, 2011, 03:40:16 PM
As long as the F&G office is making sure all requests are valid, it is a good system.
Post by: Practical Approach on January 21, 2011, 03:46:54 PM
I don't buy the ceremonial hunt claim. I'm not aware of any elk ceremony, or if there are elk ceremonies, there aren't as many ceremonies as elk shot. So I'm not convinced.Not sure I follow? Was ceremonial hunting referred to earlier?
My animals shot are for food too. That white guy should have to do the same.
I'm not even sure how a white man shooting an elk has any connection to ceremony anyways.
Post by: mack2255 on January 21, 2011, 04:39:58 PM
Post by: biggdogg on January 21, 2011, 07:12:56 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on January 21, 2011, 11:47:57 PM
they don't even take care of them for ceremony all they do is skin it out and drop it off, I get asked to hunt for a lot these ceremonies because i only deliver steaks and roasts but everybody knows that has ever taken care of an elk the proper way it's time consuming.
We run into the same problem from time to time, especially when a youngster gets signed up to be a designated hunter for an elder. If you're hunting for an elder you better expect that they're not going to be able to butcher and wrap an elk all by themselves. Anymore I just do it all, unless they specify otherwise. The elders get really excited when you deliver steaks, roasts, and burger all wrapped up...It's like they've become accustomed to not expect that kind of generosity from younger people anymore...it's sad, but rewarding. Like I've said before, I wish all people could have that opportunity...if you love hunting and appreciate the value of having wild game for subsistence, there is nothing more rewarding.
Post by: Special T on January 22, 2011, 08:53:09 AM
The second part that i have a hard time wrapping my head around is if about food, or being connected to the land, then why is the Wife in the scenario out of the loop? Should she be taking a more active role? The one out shooting??? Would she just have to come along to make it legal or ethical???
I have no dog in this fight so i'm not sure why it rubs me the wrong way...If you please shed some light on the subject that would be great.
BD "it is bulls*** i hate that they can hunt the rez just because their married into the tribe he can't hunt where ever he wants if he goes off reservation and hunts he is doing it illegal so if you happen to see him off rez turn his ass in hopefully he will get caught,"
"Those kind of people r the ones giving yakamas a bad name they take advantage of the law they r only have a permit for one elk, if he was hunting to eat then hw wouldn't be shooting nice bulls the spike tasted good."
WF "yup! agreed!! That's why the laws are getting changed because non-Indians are getting married into the Tribe to do what he does or did!!! Same ol Sh*t!"
Post by: whiteeyes on January 22, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
Cant answer for the people you addressed above but thats the way I see it. I would hate to see the wife get into trouble with the Tribe because of her husband over expressing his privileges on the street.
Post by: kirkl on January 22, 2011, 10:10:55 AM
Special T marrying into the tribe might give a person special privileges, but, sitting in a Safeway parking lot bragging about it doesn't go over to well. A person would hope that having special privileges as those would hold them close to their chest. Ethics comes to mind.
Cant answer for the people you addressed above but thats the way I see it. I would hate to see the wife get into trouble with the Tribe because of her husband over expressing his privileges on the street.
Post by: biggdogg on January 22, 2011, 12:22:18 PM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on February 01, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
Post by: colockumelk on February 02, 2011, 06:26:22 AM