Post by: whiteeyes on December 15, 2010, 08:48:22 AM
Post by: Practical Approach on December 15, 2010, 09:00:17 AM
Post by: Cougeyes on December 15, 2010, 09:09:19 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM
The Advanced Hunters are at it again in the Burg. They cornered and dropped 9 elk in there wintering range all the elk around here are in survival mood and these guys are taking advantage of them. Its very sad to see these elk being constantly chased. Rumor has it they are making jerky and selling it on the west side. They always say its for crop damage control and this last kill was in sage brush. :dunno: I know in some parts of the state this is necessary but around E`burg there taking advantage of there permits.
Yep. The only difference between them and the yakamas is that the advanced hunters probably killed nine elk between nine people... not one or two.they informed the state of their harvest so the state can accurately evaluate seasons and set quotas for these damage permits. They probably shot 9 cows not nine trophy bulls they probably weren't drunk and road hunting and if they break the rules they WOULD be fined.
Post by: jstone on December 15, 2010, 09:25:52 AM
Post by: whiteeyes on December 15, 2010, 09:34:56 AM
The Advanced Hunters are at it again in the Burg. They cornered and dropped 9 elk in there wintering range all the elk around here are in survival mood and these guys are taking advantage of them. Its very sad to see these elk being constantly chased. Rumor has it they are making jerky and selling it on the west side. They always say its for crop damage control and this last kill was in sage brush. :dunno: I know in some parts of the state this is necessary but around E`burg there taking advantage of there permits.
Yep. The only difference between them and the yakamas is that the advanced hunters probably killed nine elk between nine people... not one or two.they informed the state of their harvest so the state can accurately evaluate seasons and set quotas for these damage permits. They probably shot 9 cows not nine trophy bulls they probably weren't drunk and road hunting and if they break the rules they WOULD be fined.
Thats all they do is road hunt the whole north end of the valley, and whether there Drunk or not cant answer that. Its alot easier to corner them and chase them with 9 people I`m sure, for it gives them no escapement.
Post by: Goldeneye on December 15, 2010, 09:42:33 AM
Post by: CP on December 15, 2010, 09:44:47 AM
I am looking in the regs now and am having a hard time finding this hunt. Can someone look in there and point out which master hunter hunt this is? You may be barking up the wrong tree on this one. I'm not an eastside hunter, so perhaps I don't know the exact elk area number where these elk were. From what I see at the moment. I do not see an approved hunt close to E-burg in the area I think your referring to.
page 42 - elk area 3911
Post by: Goldeneye on December 15, 2010, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 09:56:02 AM
Yep. The only difference between them and the yakamas is that the advanced hunters probably killed nine elk between nine people... not one or two.they informed the state of their harvest so the state can accurately evaluate seasons and set quotas for these damage permits. They probably shot 9 cows not nine trophy bulls they probably weren't drunk and road hunting and if they break the rules they WOULD be fined.Fined and permanently removed from the program (which is now called the Master Hunter program.)
The boundaries of 3911 were reduced two years ago to remove a significant portion of the wintering range. The boundary north of Ellensburg is the BPA power lines.
The season now ends on December 31, not January 20.
Post by: kirkl on December 15, 2010, 12:41:24 PM
Post by: Cougeyes on December 15, 2010, 01:07:05 PM
Post by: whiteeyes on December 15, 2010, 01:11:53 PM
Hey whiteeyes, where did they get them at. im still looking to fill my master hunter elk tag. and i dont buy the master hunters hunting them in there winter range. archery guys have till Dec. 8th to hunt elk. there already moving into there winter range then also. how come no ones up in arms over that length of season. And yes the season is till Dec. 31st.
If your still looking to fill your tag you must not be a master hunter. lol just joking with ya..
Its winter time and there in there survival mood so there in there winter range. I dont believe there is a boarder so to speak is there?
Post by: kirkl on December 15, 2010, 01:14:55 PM
Post by: kirkl on December 15, 2010, 01:17:20 PM
Post by: luvtohnt on December 15, 2010, 01:25:47 PM
Brandon
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 01:26:05 PM
Post by: kirkl on December 15, 2010, 01:34:24 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 01:38:38 PM
I have the data at home. PM me and I'll forward to you.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 15, 2010, 01:59:46 PM
I am a Master Hunter and I live in Eburg. The MH program is a good program but the idea is still fairly new. It is working because it keeps the elk off of private property and on state land. The state land portion defiantly needs to be removed from the 3911 area, and the boundary need to be set along the private property discluding the Elkhorn Ranch. The Hunt Master in Ellensburg from my experience does not really care about the condition of the herd it is all about harvesting some cows. Yes it is the colockum herd and as far as I can tell the killing of a few cows in the winter helps balance the bull to cow ratio and reduce some competition on winter range for the bulls that do make it to the winter. They have now changed your master hunter certification to a Master hunter Permit so when you violate a rule they can immediately revoke your permit. Good move!! One issue I really have in the Ellensburg area is they don't just take one MH out to try to pressure the elk off of the property, they take lots of people at once. One person can be very effective in moving the elk off of private property without lethal force. I have a couple of friends that own property on Colockum Rd. and they are OK with me harvesting an elk off of their property. I have been out there a couple of times and pressured the elk off the property, and they never returned. I will only harvest a cow on my permit if the herd returns to the property multiple times. That is how it should be done. One last thing is that everyone complains about the rate for tags, and then they complain about things like this. If you have a problem with the way the WDFW resolves a problem with little to no cost then maybe you should fork out some money to help build that fence!!I think the boundary as it is now is pretty fair (at least in the e'burg area) The elk are moving from the canyons south into the ag areas. The elkhorn ranch portion of the unit is really just a sliver along the power lines, and any elk you get their are coming over the ridge from ag fields. The elk that hang out below the power lines but still in Cooke or Schnebley canyons are probably moving into ag areas below.
Brandon
Post by: CP on December 15, 2010, 02:42:17 PM
I am a Master Hunter and I live in Eburg. The MH program is a good program but the idea is still fairly new. It is working because it keeps the elk off of private property and on state land. The state land portion defiantly needs to be removed from the 3911 area, and the boundary need to be set along the private property discluding the Elkhorn Ranch. The Hunt Master in Ellensburg from my experience does not really care about the condition of the herd it is all about harvesting some cows. Yes it is the colockum herd and as far as I can tell the killing of a few cows in the winter helps balance the bull to cow ratio and reduce some competition on winter range for the bulls that do make it to the winter. They have now changed your master hunter certification to a Master hunter Permit so when you violate a rule they can immediately revoke your permit. Good move!! One issue I really have in the Ellensburg area is they don't just take one MH out to try to pressure the elk off of the property, they take lots of people at once. One person can be very effective in moving the elk off of private property without lethal force. I have a couple of friends that own property on Colockum Rd. and they are OK with me harvesting an elk off of their property. I have been out there a couple of times and pressured the elk off the property, and they never returned. I will only harvest a cow on my permit if the herd returns to the property multiple times. That is how it should be done. One last thing is that everyone complains about the rate for tags, and then they complain about things like this. If you have a problem with the way the WDFW resolves a problem with little to no cost then maybe you should fork out some money to help build that fence!!
Brandon
Not sure that follow that. 3911 is not Hunt Master controlled. Any MH with an East side tag can show up anytime during the season and hunt. You don’t need to be called by the HM.
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 02:49:10 PM
FYI there is also a permit hunt in 3911 ("Fairview") that occurs after the general season, and that is a hunt coordinator type situation.
Post by: flyguide on December 15, 2010, 03:15:34 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 03:33:22 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 15, 2010, 07:56:55 PM
Post by: SpotandStalk on December 15, 2010, 07:58:47 PM
south on Colockum Pass Road to BPA power lines
in T18N, R20E, Section 6; east and south along power
lines to Parke Creek; north on Parke Creek to Whiskey
Jim Creek; east on Whiskey Jim Creek to the Wild
Horse Wind Farm Boundary; south and East on Wild
Horse Wind Farm boundary to the Vantage Highway;
Post by: luvtohnt on December 15, 2010, 08:05:45 PM
In that portion of the 3911 there is 4+ sections of state land and a couple small sections (2 1/4 I think) BLM sections if I remember correctly. I think the elk are fine if they stay on state land. As far as the HM if you read the rules as a MH you have to call the HM for the 3911 area and inform him you will be out so he is aware of it, and he is also supposed to pass any information along he may know about where the elk are hanging out at. However just like any other new program it takes some time to get all the kinks worked out.
Brandon
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on December 15, 2010, 09:44:44 PM
I am a Master Hunter and I live in Burg. The MH program is a good program but the idea is still fairly new. It is working because it keeps the elk off of private property and on state land. The state land portion defiantly needs to be removed from the 3911 area, and the boundary need to be set along the private property disclosing the Elkhorn Ranch. The Hunt Master in El lensburg from my experience does not really care about the condition of the herd it is all about harvesting some cows.for the bulls that do make it to the winter Yes it is the colicky herd and as far as I can tell the killing of a few cows in the winter helps balance the bull to cow ratio and reduce some competition on winter range r. They have now changed your master hunter certification to a Master hunter Permit so when you violate a rule they can immediately revoke your permit. Good move!! One issue I really have in the El lensburg area is they don't just take one MH out to try to pressure the elk off of the property, they take lots of people at once. One person can be very effective in moving the elk off of private property without lethal force. I have a couple of friends that own property on Colicky Rd. and they are OK with me harvesting an elk off of their property. I have been out there a couple of times and pressured the elk off the property, and they never returned. I will only harvest a cow on my permit if the herd returns to the property multiple times. That is how it should be done. One last thing is that everyone complains about the rate for tags, and then they complain about things like this. If you have a problem with the way the WDFW resolves a problem with little to no cost then maybe you should fork out some money to help build that fence!!It's just amazing, lets kill a bunch of cows after they have been bred, and this is supposed to help the bull to cow ratio.Huh. :dunno:How the heck do you or anybody else know if that cow was pregnant or not with one or possibly two calves and possibly could have two bull calves ready to increase the bull to cow ratio in the spring. If your going to harvest cows lets do it before the breeding season , not after which can possibly hurt that bull to cow ratio. And these Lengthy elk season's one after another into the areas of the wintering grounds are not great for the overall health of the herd either, wether they are trying to reduce the herd or damage control for agriculture, any disturbance affects all the elk and their health, that's why in the spring they have imposed restrictions upon shed hunting upon the wintering ranges , due to the fact of the overall health condition of the herds with the disturbance of people in their winter range. Hey guys and gals we the sportsmen/ hunters are the ones in this era that are going to have to make the move and be sensible about our decisions for future generations , lets make common sense decisions and suggestions not only for hunting but to help build healthy populations of animals for decades to come. :twocents:
Brandon
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 09:49:06 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
I would certainly agree with the MH program as a useful tool and am an advocate of its use in many areas of the valley, but the poaching that occurs east of Parke Creek is ridiculous.Are you intentionally linking the two? I hope that's not the case. Any poaching done by an MH would be cause for his immediate removal from the program for life.
Post by: luvtohnt on December 15, 2010, 09:54:37 PM
It's just amazing, lets kill a bunch of cows after they have been bred, and this is supposed to help the bull to cow ratio.Huh. :dunno:How the heck do you or anybody else know if that cow was pregnant or not with one or possibly two calves and possibly could have two bull calves ready to increase the bull to cow ratio in the spring. If your going to harvest cows lets do it before the breeding season , not after which can possibly hurt that bull to cow ratio. And these Lent elk season's one after another into the areas of the wintering grounds are not great for the overall health of the herd either, wether they are trying to reduce the herd or damage control for agriculture, any disturbance affects all the elk and their health, that's why in the spring they have imposed restrictions upon shed hunting upon the wintering ranges , due to the fact of the overall health condition of the herds with the disturbance of people in their winter range. Hey guys and gals we the sportsmen/ hunters are the ones in this era that are going to have to make the move and be sensible about our decisions for future generations , lets make common sense decisions and suggestions not only for hunting but to help build healthy :twocents: populations of animals for decades to come.
So we better get rid of all the cow tags for ML and Modern guys if you want to go by that idea!!
If you have low breeding rate and you take out some cows regardless of wether they are pregnant you increase the chances of survival for the few calves that are born (reduced competition, and more food). It allows game managers to run closer to carrying capacity rather than exeding the carrying capacity and having calves die or predated on because they are weak.
The whole idea was developed to reduce the possibility of WDFW having to pay out to farmers for damaged fences and lost production from crops that were destroyed by the elk. It has worked, as the elk have changed their migration routes for the most part. This year the snow came fast and dumped a lot. They probably had to come down lower to make it to the winter range and they ended up crossing ag land and paid the ultimate price. :twocents:
Brandon
Post by: tmike on December 15, 2010, 10:24:51 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on December 15, 2010, 10:29:47 PM
Post by: tmike on December 15, 2010, 10:39:35 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on December 15, 2010, 10:52:58 PM
Post by: colockumelk on December 16, 2010, 04:26:14 AM
Exactly how does this compare to a group of 9 Yakamas shooting 2-3 bulls each that don't have tags that they bought and paid for? Especially in a unit with such a poor bull to cow ratio one would think you would be pissed about your fellow Yakamas being such poor stewards of conservation?
So please help me make the connection? Did the master hunters kill these elk on or near a feeding station? If so are they going to close the feeding station to public viewing to protect the elk from the master hunters? Is the impact of master hunters so great that they'll have to clocked roads in the wintering grounds to protect the elk and deer from the master hunters? If so then I can see the connection because your tribe did that as well.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 16, 2010, 06:07:45 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2010, 06:20:35 AM
Post by: tmike on December 16, 2010, 08:20:47 AM
Post by: high country on December 16, 2010, 08:46:37 AM
Post by: whiteeyes on December 16, 2010, 08:48:16 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 16, 2010, 10:07:01 AM
It would take alot to look as bad as tribals
It's basically just laws and enforcement of them keeping the non-tribals from doing what gets posted about tribals. I would speculate that non-tribals have the same percentage of d-bags as tribals. My guess is that if we removed regulation of the non-tribal, we would not have this large group of self policing sportsmen that care about the future of the herds. I'm guessing there would be large convoys of trucks with gun mounts on top chasing critters through the woods, shooting all year round, using fires to drive animals, spotlighting, hundreds of nets across rivers, etc. Personally the worst things I've seen done to game weren't done by any tribe, and all were technically legal.
Post by: SpotandStalk on December 16, 2010, 10:28:35 AM
MH, here, and I can tell you that from my expierience in 3911 (been hunting it for 7 years) it is working. I have progressivly seen less elk in the lowlands, which is the goal. the reduced boundary provides a great unmolested area for the elk.....but I could see future problems if more homes are built across the hwy. the reduced season kept quite a few from filling tags in 3911, thus reducing the pressure......good for elk, not so good for fences and crops. the problem with lookout is it is surrounded by private holdings. one section is not going to keep all those elk in it. there is going to be fences wrecked and damaged lands. the big plan is to train the elk into choosing winter range that will support them and not cause damage to private property. that is going to take a few generations of elk, but it appears to be happening to me......just slowly
Well said and I agree. I would still argue that the state owned rangeland east of Parke Creek and north of Vantage Hwy should be eliminated. Reduce it to the Engineers land boundary, keeping a buffer of privately owned land that would be MH huntable between the winter range and the irrigated ag lands.
Post by: Bob33 on December 16, 2010, 10:37:18 AM
I can assure you that the 3911 area is closely and carefully monitored and reviewed constantly. In the last two years the boundaries have changed, the seasons have changed, and the harvest limits have changed. It is an evolving situation and you can expect more change.
Thank you to all the Master Hunters that have made this successful. Thank you to the critics that suggest positive improvements.
Post by: luvtohnt on December 16, 2010, 11:09:57 AM
Most cows are bred from the last week of September thru the third week of October. We all understand that the cows taken thru Muzzy and Modern are probably pregnant, and we understand that WDFW put these tag 's available to balance the herd, and reduce the chance elk populations fighting for winter and spring forage, and reduce the weak from the herd, point expressed Brandon, I still institute that having hunts late in the year when all elk are trying to survive is not the time to be chasing them down, harassing, then shooting any of them, that was my main point! Having a cow hunt before breeding season was just an option thrown up in the air for food for thought, I surely don't see any other ideas flying across this forum. :rolleyes: Besides only 1/3 of all calves that are born survive, from all biologist reports. And possibly if we could obtain more calves for spring maybe, just maybe more bull calves would be apart of the survivors inwhich would eventually increase our bull to cow ratio. I would rather see 1/3 of the calves out of thousand be the numbers rather than a third out of one hundred. :twocents:
Just pointing out that shooting pregnant cows is irrelevant in this discussion. Yes the WDFW does not issue checks for damage done, but it has shut a lot of farmers up when the WDFW tells them your problem will be solved if you allow hunters on your property. There are still a couple of guys out there that just suck it up and deal with the damage because they do not want people on their property. As far as the 1/3 of calves surviving, this is most likely due to the fact that in modern game management they always try to populate over carrying capacity so there will be game for hunters. If they want higher survival rates all they have to do is manage for the winter carrying capacity and the survival rate would go up. However it would reduce allowable take, which is counter productive for an organization trying to generate revenue! As far as increasing bull to cow ratios that will never happen until there is more area allowed for the bulls to escape to, and in the colockum that simply equated to closing roads. But when you have local sportsmans clubs that hammer that issue to keep roads open for their own intrest rather than the intrest of the herd we will continue to have problems. Now I agree with your point about stressing the animals that is where hunter ETHICS come into play. If you can't harvest an elk without chasing them all over the unit (especially because it is winter time), then once they leave private property you have accomplished your goal, and your hunting should cease. :twocents:
Brandon
Post by: Practical Approach on December 16, 2010, 12:12:26 PM
Since we are all adding two cents, I would like to throw mine in here. I will first and formost point out that I know very little about the Clockum herd, so if I mispeak, my apologies. I just wanted to point out that WDFW does pay money to landowners for elk damage. They have a budget set up for that. They will cut you a check if you qualify, however WDFW does its very best to avoid cutting those checks by issuing damage hunts on those properties. They have various types of damage hunts that they can use depending on the situation.Most cows are bred from the last week of September thru the third week of October. We all understand that the cows taken thru Muzzy and Modern are probably pregnant, and we understand that WDFW put these tag 's available to balance the herd, and reduce the chance elk populations fighting for winter and spring forage, and reduce the weak from the herd, point expressed Brandon, I still institute that having hunts late in the year when all elk are trying to survive is not the time to be chasing them down, harassing, then shooting any of them, that was my main point! Having a cow hunt before breeding season was just an option thrown up in the air for food for thought, I surely don't see any other ideas flying across this forum. :rolleyes: Besides only 1/3 of all calves that are born survive, from all biologist reports. And possibly if we could obtain more calves for spring maybe, just maybe more bull calves would be apart of the survivors inwhich would eventually increase our bull to cow ratio. I would rather see 1/3 of the calves out of thousand be the numbers rather than a third out of one hundred. :twocents:
Just pointing out that shooting pregnant cows is irrelevant in this discussion. Yes the WDFW does not issue checks for damage done, but it has shut a lot of farmers up when the WDFW tells them your problem will be solved if you allow hunters on your property. There are still a couple of guys out there that just suck it up and deal with the damage because they do not want people on their property. As far as the 1/3 of calves surviving, this is most likely due to the fact that in modern game management they always try to populate over carrying capacity so there will be game for hunters. If they want higher survival rates all they have to do is manage for the winter carrying capacity and the survival rate would go up. However it would reduce allowable take, which is counter productive for an organization trying to generate revenue! As far as increasing bull to cow ratios that will never happen until there is more area allowed for the bulls to escape to, and in the colockum that simply equated to closing roads. But when you have local sportsmans clubs that hammer that issue to keep roads open for their own intrest rather than the intrest of the herd we will continue to have problems. Now I agree with your point about stressing the animals that is where hunter ETHICS come into play. If you can't harvest an elk without chasing them all over the unit (especially because it is winter time), then once they leave private property you have accomplished your goal, and your hunting should cease. :twocents:
Brandon
I agree that in today's game management, managers manage for maximum opportunity for hunters. For one, that is what the majority of hunters want and two, it is a revenue builder. However, the idea that populations are managed over carrying capacity isn't true. Carrying capacity is defined by the maximum population a habitat can can support. If the habitat couldn't support the elk, then you would see die offs similar to St. Helen's. I guess my question is what is the winter carrying capacity for this area. Do you factor the areas you want elk to reside where they can be hunted and deemed good elk, or does this include elk habitat that has been encroached on by houses, farms, etc. Those areas where folks don't want elk on their winter range (bad elk). Having a calf to cow ration of 33 calves per 100 cows in the spring is fairly average for many herds in Washington. Some are higher some are lower, remember though the 1/3 of calves that are reported to have survived are calves that survived through early predation and into the fall when WDFW does their surveys. Calf production is higher, but what you are left with after a few months can be considerably lower. I agree completely on the bull to cow ratios. With a non permit system in place, you need roads closed to give the elk a chance. I am speaking in general here, between all of the state seasons from early archery to late modern firearm and then you add tribal seasons on top, they don't get much rest if roads are open everywhere.
Post by: hirshey on December 16, 2010, 03:51:48 PM
- If a Master Hunter pays the required fine or is found to have committed an infraction under Chapter 77.15 RCW or WDFW rules, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for two years.
- If a Master Hunter pays the required fine or is convicted of a misdemeanor, gross misdemeanor, or felony under Chapter 77.15 RCW, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for life.
- If a Master Hunter pays the required fine or is convicted of trespass, reckless endangerment, criminal conspiracy, or making a false statement to law enforcement, while hunting, fishing, or engaging in any activity regulated by WDFW, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for life
- If a Master Hunter pays the required fine or is convicted of a felony prohibiting the possession of firearms, unless firearm possession is reinstated, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for life.
- If a Master Hunter has a hunting or fishing license revoked or has hunting or fishing license privileges suspended in another state, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for life.
- If a Master Hunter submits fraudulent information to WDFW, WDFW shall suspend his/her Master Hunter permit for life.
- If a Master Hunter is cited, or charged by complaint, for an offense under Chapter 77.15 RCW; or for trespass, reckless endangerment, criminal conspiracy, or making a false statement to law enforcement while hunting, fishing, or engaging in any activity regulated by WDFW, WDFW may immediately suspend his/her Master Hunter permit until the offense has been adjudicated.
- If a Master Hunter has his/her permit suspended for less than life, and the person wants to become a Master Hunter again, they must repeat the entire Master Hunter permit application process once the suspension period is over.
Also, at least it is a regulated hunt! Is it simply coincidence this post appears following fishhunt247's letter to the editor? Not trying to be rude simply curious.
Post by: colockumelk on December 16, 2010, 04:07:47 PM
Iceman ---- just making a statement on here as everybody else does about the colockum elk herd. But of course you attack my statement as usual. And C-elk why is it that you attack the Yakamas every time you comment on this forum? Your last attack has nothing to do with my statement but of course you seem to turn things around as you seem to do very well and point the finger. If you want to attack the Yakamas as you always seem to do, you are becoming more of the problem then the solution. This forum was getting some really good POSITIVE input and info until iceman and colockum had to do what they do best. No pun intended, just sayin guys have a nice X-mas and Happy New Year.
No you were trying to make a point and mocking fishunt247s post. I was saying you can't compare what the Master Hunter's did to what the Yakama's do in the Colockum. You know it and I know it. And I don't attack the Yakama's. I only state things that have happened. Thats not an attack that is called talking about the past. Maybe if the Yakamas would clean up their act a littel more I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 16, 2010, 05:47:17 PM
Exactly what I think all of us have been trying to say. It only took us how many threads to do that? haha.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 16, 2010, 06:03:09 PM
Iceman ---- just making a statement on here as everybody else does about the colockum elk herd. But of course you attack my statement as usual. And C-elk why is it that you attack the Yakamas every time you comment on this forum? Your last attack has nothing to do with my statement but of course you seem to turn things around as you seem to do very well and point the finger. If you want to attack the Yakamas as you always seem to do, you are becoming more of the problem then the solution. This forum was getting some really good POSITIVE input and info until iceman and colockum had to do what they do best. No pun intended, just sayin guys have a nice X-mas and Happy New Year.
Yep, I wrecked it all. :bash: Me and Colockum just waiting until you post on here so we can attack...
Did my observation strike a chord? It appears to have resonated with you to get the honorable mention in your post. Actually I don't believe that I posted a whole lot in the earlier discussions about the Colockum herd at all... My observation is just that. To me, in my opinion, you appear on the surface to be searching for an incident which may cause an eyebrow to raise. I have not started a thread which points out any misdeeds of the tribe. Go back and read your own posts and then tell me who is pushing an agenda. My comments on this site are spread across a broad spectrum of topics.
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on December 16, 2010, 08:02:02 PM
Most cows are bred from the last week of September thru the third week of October. We all understand that the cows taken thru Muzzy and Modern are probably pregnant, and we understand that WDFW put these tag 's available to balance the herd, and reduce the chance elk populations fighting for winter and spring forage, and reduce the weak from the herd, point expressed Brandon, I still institute that having hunts late in the year when all elk are trying to survive is not the time to be chasing them down, harassing, then shooting any of them, that was my main point! Having a cow hunt before breeding season was just an option thrown up in the air for food for thought, I surely don't see any other ideas flying across this forum. :rolleyes: Besides only 1/3 of all calves that are born survive, from all biologist reports. And possibly if we could obtain more calves for spring maybe, just maybe more bull calves would be apart of the survivors inwhich would eventually increase our bull to cow ratio. I would rather see 1/3 of the calves out of thousand be the numbers rather than a third out of one hundred. :twocents:
Just pointing out that shooting pregnant cows is irrelevant in this discussion. Yes the WDFW does not issue checks for damage done, but it has shut a lot of farmers up when the WDFW tells them your problem will be solved if you allow hunters on your property. There are still a couple of guys out there that just suck it up and deal with the damage because they do not want people on their property. As far as the 1/3 of calves surviving, this is most likely due to the fact that in modern game management they always try to populate over carrying capacity so there will be game for hunters. If they want higher survival rates all they have to do is manage for the winter carrying capacity and the survival rate would go up. However it would reduce allowable take, which is counter productive for an organization trying to generate revenue! As far as increasing bull to cow ratios that will never happen until there is more area allowed for the bulls to escape to, and in the colockum that simply equated to closing roads. But when you have local sportsmans clubs that hammer that issue to keep roads open for their own intrest rather than the intrest of the herd we will continue to have problems. Now I agree with your point about stressing the animals that is where hunter ETHICS come into play. If you can't harvest an elk without chasing them all over the unit (especially because it is winter time), then once they leave private property you have accomplished your goal, and your hunting should cease. :twocents:
Brandon
Luvtohnt, I think we are starting to see the same objectives here and agreeing upon points of this post, and Practical Approach you beat me to it, I went to bed, you posted some of the exact same points I was going to post. The other day upon another a forum post ,I stated we should lock more of these areas up during and right after all hunting season closures. Each area having the closures do to there own situation. Also we hate to see it or say it but institute a state wide three point minimum, and drawfor elk season s for all east side areas. I know the WDFW won't go for it becuase license sales will decrease, but when are they going to wake up, no elk or little elk means little tag and license sales any way, and with wolves coming into the equation , hunting could be all but over as we know it if they aren't derailed so all these discussions and points are worthless at that point.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 16, 2010, 08:21:11 PM
No you were trying to make a point and mocking fishunt247s post. I was saying you can't compare what the Master Hunter's did to what the Yakama's do in the Colockum. You know it and I know it. And I don't attack the Yakama's. I only state things that have happened. Thats not an attack that is called talking about the past. Maybe if the Yakamas would clean up their act a littel more I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Colockum, where have you been...I thought maybe you took my comments about you not being able to have an opinion serious. I hope the holiday season finds you well...
Anyways...I've been following this thread for awhile wondering what the heck the big deal was :chuckle: It just dawned on me that this was a play on the "Good day for the tribe thread" :chuckle: I'm clueless sometimes. I'm quite intrigued by the OP though. Given that the "they're at it again" thread got so many people in an uproar over one cow elk in the back of a tribal truck...I can't imagine what kind of comments would be posted on this thread had it been 9 tribal guys killing 9 cows, all with tribal tags...especially this late in the year. But a comment like that will just start an argument...so ignore it please :chuckle:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2010, 08:32:16 PM
Post by: rotty33 on December 16, 2010, 10:25:12 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2010, 11:00:32 PM
9 elk harvested huh? If you look at the Washington fish and game website under master hunter and click on recent reports it only shows 2 elk harvested in the last 13 days. And what are all the complaints about tribal hunters, their land was taken from them so they deserve some rights after getting screwed. Some people like to do nothing but complain.
:bs: They didn't get "screwed." They didn't "own" any land. How was it taken from them if it wasn't theirs to begin with? I think they should have rights too. The right to hunt anywhere in this state, following all the same seasons and regulations that we do. Unless they're on a reservation, then they can do anything they want. :twocents:
Post by: Coastal_native on December 16, 2010, 11:17:14 PM
9 elk harvested huh? If you look at the Washington fish and game website under master hunter and click on recent reports it only shows 2 elk harvested in the last 13 days. And what are all the complaints about tribal hunters, their land was taken from them so they deserve some rights after getting screwed. Some people like to do nothing but complain.
:bs: They didn't get "screwed." They didn't "own" any land. How was it taken from them if it wasn't theirs to begin with? I think they should have rights too. The right to hunt anywhere in this state, following all the same seasons and regulations that we do. Unless they're on a reservation, then they can do anything they want. :twocents:
LOL...I was waiting for someone to respond to rotty33...come on Bobcat, give 'em a break...they're really should be a list of things you shouldn't say when you're chiming in on a tribal hunting thread for the first time :chuckle: We need a new emoticon for situations like this.
Post by: Practical Approach on December 17, 2010, 08:15:49 AM
:yeah:9 elk harvested huh? If you look at the Washington fish and game website under master hunter and click on recent reports it only shows 2 elk harvested in the last 13 days. And what are all the complaints about tribal hunters, their land was taken from them so they deserve some rights after getting screwed. Some people like to do nothing but complain.
:bs: They didn't get "screwed." They didn't "own" any land. How was it taken from them if it wasn't theirs to begin with? I think they should have rights too. The right to hunt anywhere in this state, following all the same seasons and regulations that we do. Unless they're on a reservation, then they can do anything they want. :twocents:
LOL...I was waiting for someone to respond to rotty33...come on Bobcat, give 'em a break...they're really should be a list of things you shouldn't say when you're chiming in on a tribal hunting thread for the first time :chuckle: We need a new emoticon for situations like this.
Post by: Shed Stud on December 17, 2010, 08:40:39 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2010, 02:29:44 PM
Quote
Master Elk Hunters,The elk are in.... - $1 (Yakima)
Date: 2010-12-11, 11:26AM PST
Reply to: sale-astxs-2107613500@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
So far im 8 for 8 in 4 days of hunting on my 6,000 private acre ranch for master elk cow hunters.The property is all vechile accessible and you will get a shot at an elk.The property is located between 2 feeding stations and this is there migration route.the snow is falling and the elk are thick.If you want to put meat in the freezer call now to get a spot at an awsome hunt.Thanks Rob (509)580-0470 Also bird hunts avaible to make a fun weekend or 2 day adventure!!!!!!
Location: Yakima
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2107613500
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/2107613500.html (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/2107613500.html)
Post by: kirkl on December 17, 2010, 03:08:56 PM
Found an ad on craiglist for any of you advanced hunters with an unfilled tag. Don't know anything about it.QuoteMaster Elk Hunters,The elk are in.... - $1 (Yakima)
Date: 2010-12-11, 11:26AM PST
Reply to: sale-astxs-2107613500@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
So far im 8 for 8 in 4 days of hunting on my 6,000 private acre ranch for master elk cow hunters.The property is all vechile accessible and you will get a shot at an elk.The property is located between 2 feeding stations and this is there migration route.the snow is falling and the elk are thick.If you want to put meat in the freezer call now to get a spot at an awsome hunt.Thanks Rob (509)580-0470 Also bird hunts avaible to make a fun weekend or 2 day adventure!!!!!!
Location: Yakima
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 2107613500
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/2107613500.html (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/2107613500.html)
Post by: colockumelk on December 17, 2010, 03:25:59 PM
No you were trying to make a point and mocking fishunt247s post. I was saying you can't compare what the Master Hunter's did to what the Yakama's do in the Colockum. You know it and I know it. And I don't attack the Yakama's. I only state things that have happened. Thats not an attack that is called talking about the past. Maybe if the Yakamas would clean up their act a littel more I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Colockum, where have you been...I thought maybe you took my comments about you not being able to have an opinion serious. I hope the holiday season finds you well...
Anyways...I've been following this thread for awhile wondering what the heck the big deal was :chuckle: It just dawned on me that this was a play on the "Good day for the tribe thread" :chuckle: I'm clueless sometimes. I'm quite intrigued by the OP though. Given that the "they're at it again" thread got so many people in an uproar over one cow elk in the back of a tribal truck...I can't imagine what kind of comments would be posted on this thread had it been 9 tribal guys killing 9 cows, all with tribal tags...especially this late in the year. But a comment like that will just start an argument...so ignore it please :chuckle:
Nah I've been busy because I had the Flight School equivalant of 2 finals. I had an instrument checkride and I had to complete an Australian Map book for my next flight course. Basically the map book takes about 40 man hours of time to complete. And also study for my checkride. Which is the equivalant of taking a comprehensive final that covers a whole years subject. I have no idea why I posted on this thread. Sometimes I just like to argue. Especially if I see something stupid.
As for 9 tribal members shooting 9 cow elk I think most on here would just call that a good day in the woods. I certainly wouuldn't have a problem with it.
Post by: coachcw on December 18, 2010, 07:14:11 AM