Post by: huntnnw on January 04, 2011, 11:17:01 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 04, 2011, 11:28:35 PM
I'm sure they have increased harvest. I'm not sure they have decreased crippling and wounded shots, because some will use them as an excuse to shoot beyond their capable limits.
Post by: shoot-em-dead on January 05, 2011, 12:03:26 AM
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 12:05:55 AM
Post by: PolarBear on January 05, 2011, 12:14:21 AM
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 12:29:18 AM
Post by: gjbruny on January 05, 2011, 12:51:32 AM
Since we have all this talk on here about bowhunting, traditional seasons, baiting,illumanock, ethics etc... How about the use of range finders in archery.. I personally have one, not till 2 years ago. I bowhunted 18 years without one and boy do I wish I had one all those years. I feel a HUGE part of being a archer is the ability to range your game without the use of "electronics" to tell you how far things are, this is a skill, some are very good at it, it takes alot of practice and to me is a crucial part of being a bowhunter. I use to just hike and guess ranges of things then pace it off to see how close I was, did this for years and become very good at this by the time I was 20. The use of range finders has extended my range dramatically!! I shoot my bow out to 100 yards during practice sessions, I am very confident in my range out to 60 yards on deer and 70 on elk ,now with the use of range finders I am able to take these shots, I now know the exact distance.These rangefinders have complimented todays high tech bows they are fast enough and accurate enough to kill game out past 100 yards, but there arent many hunters out there who would let a arrow go at 60 yards at a deer if they didnt know the exact distance. Back in the day there was not a chance I would shoot much past 40 yards unless I had marked off my distances in my treestand with markers so I would know. To me there is alot less game in the woods due to the use of these devices, yes there is the argument ethical clean kills, but to me this direclty aids hunters in harvesting of game animals. There are alot of big bucks that would be dead if I had one of these when I began my bowhunting career. It also makes me wonder why P&Y allows deer in the book with the use of these. This goes the same way with long range shooting of guns, people taking animals at 700-1000 yards, these animals are not dead if these hunters dont have accurate range finders. U can debate they could get closer and shoot,but alot of times u cant when they are shooting over canyons or mt sides. Whats your opinion on the matter?
great thread and post and i agree 100%.
ultimately, i think technology will kill us in the end as far as our hunting priviledges go.... and the biggest culpret, atleast in my opinion, is this frigg'n thing i am typing on. today, you can go online as a complete novice to hunting and within one year, have a darn good working knowledge of a specific species, where to start locating that animal, what tactics to use for that animal, what bow works best, how to shoot that bow, tune the bow ect ect.... then log onto google earth and virtually see the terrain before even stepping foot out there to locate lanmarks such as pinch points water ect. technology scares me in the world of hunting and what i fear that it will take away from us..... and "the nekid lady box" is numero uno on the list as far as technological advances for hunters.
btw, calling someone a dumb ass because their proficiency with a weapon is superior to your level of "acceptable" limits is kind of counter-intuitive dont ya think?..... and this is coming from a stickbow guy.
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 12:59:31 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 05, 2011, 01:08:06 AM
Sounds like your nuts to me- for starters- bragging that you can shoot and elk at 70 yds with an arrow tells me your a dumb ass. Do you know how far an elk an move by the time your arrow gets to it? Completely and totally DUMB. Then you go on to imply rangefinders are unethical because they improve yearly harvest quotas. I'm willing to bet that because of the use of rangefinders- most hunters wound less game because they tag out after the first shot- unlike the guy that wounds 3 elk a year by taking 70 yard shots with his bow only to eat tag soup at the end of the season.
Man I love to debate people when I disagree but to go as far as calling one of our fellow huntingwashignton members a *censored* on the board...man that's uncalled for.
The great Fred Bear had no qualms with shooting game out to 60 yards with his recurve. Pope and Young shot animals out to 70 with their longbow. I guess you are calling the fathers of modern archery a *censored* as well?
I think animal posture/attitude is a factor that is overlooked.... especially on species that aren't as liable to jump the string as whitetail deer. If a guys has practiced to that range and the animal is calm and all other conditions are right I see not reason he can't take a shot to that distance. I personally don't but I am just not that good of a shot.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 05, 2011, 01:11:15 AM
Since we have all this talk on here about bowhunting, traditional seasons, baiting,illumanock, ethics etc... How about the use of range finders in archery.. I personally have one, not till 2 years ago. I bowhunted 18 years without one and boy do I wish I had one all those years. I feel a HUGE part of being a archer is the ability to range your game without the use of "electronics" to tell you how far things are, this is a skill, some are very good at it, it takes alot of practice and to me is a crucial part of being a bowhunter. I use to just hike and guess ranges of things then pace it off to see how close I was, did this for years and become very good at this by the time I was 20. The use of range finders has extended my range dramatically!! I shoot my bow out to 100 yards during practice sessions, I am very confident in my range out to 60 yards on deer and 70 on elk ,now with the use of range finders I am able to take these shots, I now know the exact distance.These rangefinders have complimented todays high tech bows they are fast enough and accurate enough to kill game out past 100 yards, but there arent many hunters out there who would let a arrow go at 60 yards at a deer if they didnt know the exact distance. Back in the day there was not a chance I would shoot much past 40 yards unless I had marked off my distances in my treestand with markers so I would know. To me there is alot less game in the woods due to the use of these devices, yes there is the argument ethical clean kills, but to me this direclty aids hunters in harvesting of game animals. There are alot of big bucks that would be dead if I had one of these when I began my bowhunting career. It also makes me wonder why P&Y allows deer in the book with the use of these. This goes the same way with long range shooting of guns, people taking animals at 700-1000 yards, these animals are not dead if these hunters dont have accurate range finders. U can debate they could get closer and shoot,but alot of times u cant when they are shooting over canyons or mt sides. Whats your opinion on the matter?
great thread and post and i agree 100%.
ultimately, i think technology will kill us in the end as far as our hunting priviledges go.... and the biggest culpret, atleast in my opinion, is this frigg'n thing i am typing on. today, you can go online as a complete novice to hunting and within one year, have a darn good working knowledge of a specific species, where to start locating that animal, what tactics to use for that animal, what bow works best, how to shoot that bow, tune the bow ect ect.... then log onto google earth and virtually see the terrain before even stepping foot out there to locate lanmarks such as pinch points water ect. technology scares me in the world of hunting and what i fear that it will take away from us..... and "the nekid lady box" is numero uno on the list as far as technological advances for hunters.
btw, calling someone a dumb ass because their proficiency with a weapon is superior to your level of "acceptable" limits is kind of counter-intuitive dont ya think?..... and this is coming from a stickbow guy.
Man you bring up a great point with the experience... I think guys now days gain experience at a pace that is extremely accelerated compared to what I learned on as a kid....and I can't even imagine before that time when there wasn't so many magazine articles written on specifically how to kill specific big animals. I read those books/magazines cover to cover dozens of times when I was a kid....still have some of them.
Post by: gjbruny on January 05, 2011, 01:16:16 AM
The great Fred Bear had no qualms with shooting game out to 60 yards with his recurve. Pope and Young shot animals out to 70 with their longbow. I guess you are calling the fathers of modern archery a *censored* as well?
oh they shot much further than that.... much further..... and most of the time they just cared about getting an arrow into an animal so that they could slow it down to make a kill shot vs. making a clean one shot kill. running shots at 100+ yards were not uncommon and many of them are filmed. amazing how time has put a "rosey" haze over what "the greats" used to do.
the thing is, being "P.C." has somehow worked against us as to what "ethical" is...... or that there is a standard for all hunters/archers and anything outside that standard is taboo.
Post by: gjbruny on January 05, 2011, 01:22:30 AM
fast forward to today.... the site i sent you the link on is THE place for laminated bow building. when i created that forum on the site, very few guys were building other than pros but there was some interest. soon, there were a few hobby guys doing build alongs as well as some pros chiming in. now, guys can go from knowing nothing, to having the right tools and techniques from that site and create a bow that took me 50 or so to get to the same level through trial and error.
hunting is becoming the same way...... not that it is really a bad thing...... i'm just saying. ;)
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 05, 2011, 01:27:37 AM
DB- there is no question about that..... a good example is bow building. when i started 12 or so years ago, the net was, for all intents and purposes, in it's infancy. there was almost zero info on the topic and really, only a few books that were vague at best.
fast forward to today.... the site i sent you the link on is THE place for laminated bow building. when i created that forum on the site, very few guys were building other than pros but there was some interest. soon, there were a few hobby guys doing build alongs as well as some pros chiming in. now, guys can go from knowing nothing, to having the right tools and techniques from that site and create a bow that took me 50 or so to get to the same level through trial and error.
hunting is becoming the same way...... not that it is really a bad thing...... i'm just saying. ;)
Man I checked out those bow builds. Awesome! I am already scoping them out for my first build which I will be starting in late May. Fortunately I am also going to have the assistance of one of those trial and error guys here in the local area who has been building bows for a little over 20 years.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 05, 2011, 01:31:46 AM
I think they are great and don't want them to go away...but if guys want to get into the we are taking to many animals so we need to get rid of gear/hunting methods debate then I think a rangefinder would be one of the first things that need to come off of the list. I mean have you ever seen the people on TV??? They use them for every kill...or maybe they are just advertising. :chuckle:
Post by: gjbruny on January 05, 2011, 01:59:46 AM
Post by: Buckrub on January 05, 2011, 05:36:43 AM
As we sit on a computer (tool of technology) passing judgement on ones use of technology :dunno: for hunting let I remind some.
One would be a *censored* for entering the woods without a GPS... which is a great tool of technology for hunting.
Yes.. technology will have an effect on the future of bowhunting as it already has but passing judgement for the use of technology will never help to further the cause of bowhunting. We must accept each other and band together... the are bigger fish to fry than the use of a rangefinder.
Post by: krout81 on January 05, 2011, 06:33:32 AM
:twocents: If you need a range finder to use a bow then you aren't practicing enough :twocents:
:twocents: Maybe put down the crutch and walk on your own 2 feet :twocents:
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 06:36:23 AM
Post by: Lowedog on January 05, 2011, 07:24:08 AM
great thread and post and i agree 100%.
ultimately, i think technology will kill us in the end as far as our hunting priviledges go.... and the biggest culpret, atleast in my opinion, is this frigg'n thing i am typing on. today, you can go online as a complete novice to hunting and within one year, have a darn good working knowledge of a specific species, where to start locating that animal, what tactics to use for that animal, what bow works best, how to shoot that bow, tune the bow ect ect.... then log onto google earth and virtually see the terrain before even stepping foot out there to locate lanmarks such as pinch points water ect. technology scares me in the world of hunting and what i fear that it will take away from us..... and "the nekid lady box" is numero uno on the list as far as technological advances for hunters.
I have said many times that the #1 technological advancement to have the biggest impact on hunting has been the internet and hunting forums. How many times have you see someone join this forum and with their first post ask about a certain area to hunt? If just a small percentage of those people get someone to tell them something that would have taken a year or two to learn just hunting an area their opportunity for success just skyrocketed.
As far as rangefinders go I think they are a great tool. I think they have probably helped reduce the number of wounded animals more than they have increased harvest.
As was said earlier, taking extremely long shots at animals is nothing new. All a rangefinder does is increase the hunters ability to make a kill shot at those ranges instead of just wounding.
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 08:16:17 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 05, 2011, 08:20:32 AM
Thanks.
I wonder if Leupold will come out with a combo rangfinder/flashlight/stabilizer anytime in the near future.
Post by: huntnnw on January 05, 2011, 08:21:40 AM
Post by: Lowedog on January 05, 2011, 08:23:29 AM
I can argue that ooint that alot more shots taken at longer ranges due to these= more wounded game.
Like 70 yards at an elk? :yike:
Sorry, couldn't help myself and just razzin ya! :)
Post by: alwinearcher on January 05, 2011, 08:39:45 AM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on January 05, 2011, 08:57:53 AM
Post by: 520backyard on January 05, 2011, 08:36:35 PM
yup I am a dumb ass.. 70 yards is my effectice range.. I am fully confident in my ability to 70.
LOL like you can see that branch or branches at 70 yards thats gonna screw your shot since at 70 yards it'll be so flat. Range finders didn't extend your range they just took the guess work out.
Post by: throttlejocky20 on January 05, 2011, 09:48:51 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 05, 2011, 10:38:02 PM
Post by: krout81 on January 05, 2011, 10:50:27 PM
I will bow out of this one After thinking about it I shouldn't have even said anything. :P
Post by: Ray on January 05, 2011, 10:54:59 PM
Post by: bearpaw on January 05, 2011, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: gjbruny on January 06, 2011, 12:15:11 AM
Maybe my view is screwy. I dont use pins or release with my compound. It does me no good to know the range I just shoot at them. I guess all the pin shooters who need to know the exact range so you use the correct pin they would be a great tool.
i shoot longbows and recurves barebow..... but i still use a rangefinder to get the distances to natural markers when hunting from a stand or a blind. at 175-180fps, the drop from 20 to 35 yards is substancial.... granted, i can usually judge to within a yard or two out to 40 or so yards.... but knowing exactly sure is nice too.
i like rangefinders but i don't think i'd get overly worked up about it if they outlawed them either. i'm kind of neutral on this one..... though they sure are useful on yotes out past the 500 mark. ;)
the one thing i forgot to mention when somebody said that "a lot could happen in the time it takes an arrow to travel 70 yards to an elk."....... with the speed of today's compounds, the time it takes an arrow to reach out to 70 yards is roughly the time it takes an arrow from my recurve to reach out to 35 yards at 175-180fps...... and i won't hesitate to make a 35 yard shot. :chuckle:
Post by: rasbo on January 06, 2011, 04:32:35 AM
Post by: huntnnw on January 06, 2011, 06:33:26 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 06, 2011, 06:47:48 AM
Post by: Snapshot on January 06, 2011, 06:58:26 PM
One would be a *censored* for entering the woods without a GPS...
Well, then I invited a 'dummy' relative of mine out to hunt Washington elk one year. He was in country that was totally unfamiliar to him. Just before it got completely dark one evening we met up at the prearranged spot and he told of having called a good bull in to a distance of about ten yards; but in the dark timber at the end of shooting time he was unable to see a small branch, he said, and heard the arrow go 'ting' followed by the 'thud' of it sticking in a tree. I asked him if he was sure that what he hit was a tree, and where was the arrow? He said he knew what he heard, but I razzed him about it enough that he told me, "Damn it, now I've got to back there in the morning and find that arrow." I said I'd go with him.
Next morning I follow him the mile and a half or two up the trail and when he reached a 'spot' he says, "This is where I came out onto this trail," he pulls his compass from out of his pocket and proceeds to navigate through the timber for several hundred yards until he walks up to huge fir tree and says, "I was standing next to this tree and the bull was right over there." Five minutes later we found his clean arrow embedded in a small tree.
My point is that not all 'dummys' need a gps. Instead they rely on a compass and woodsmanship; the aspect of hunting that is lost on those who depend on gadgets instead of our own senses and smarts to be successful in the woods. FWIW, no, I can't hold a candle to him when it comes to outdoorsmanship, but it isn't for a total lack of trying...
I think trail cameras are a greater blight than rangefinders. ;)
Post by: Lowedog on January 06, 2011, 07:32:23 PM
I think trail cameras are a greater blight than rangefinders. ;)
C'mon now Snapshot you have to start a new thread for trail cameras! And another one for GPS! We can't be getting people all confused.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 06, 2011, 07:40:23 PM
One would be a *censored* for entering the woods without a GPS... which is a great tool of technology for hunting.
I prefer a map and compass.
Post by: ribka on January 06, 2011, 09:00:22 PM
I practice and estimate yardage and check with range finder and always within 2-3 yds.
Now Idid use the range finder on an antelope hunt with rifle this year.
Post by: sakoshooter on January 07, 2011, 02:46:43 PM
This seems to have turned into two different topics.
As far as accurate shooting with a sighted compound bow at longer distances goes, I'd have to say it would be no different relatively speaking than shooting longer distances with a rifle. It all boils down to one's ability. If you practice at those yardages and are confident and the hunting situation is such that you can watch the hit and the animal after the hit, go for it. There will be other factors of course.
My longest rifle shot(mule deer)464 yds ranged. My longest bow(bare bow recurve, whitetail)65 paces. I like them much closer but knowledge, practice and confidence allow me to make these shots. So does a rock solid rest for my rifle. I regularly shoot my sighted compound out to 80 yds and am stilll amazed at how accurate it shoots. A coffee saucer sized group at 80 yds gives me confidence.
Post by: Jellymon on January 07, 2011, 03:09:12 PM
Now, about groups with a bow. Yes, I have shot 2" groups at 50yds before, but is that my true grouping at 50yds? No. Here is something to try. Go and shoot at a fresh target at 50yds. Shoot 5 arrows a day for five days at the same bullseye and measure your group, you might be suprised at what you get. Remember, you dont get to warm up for that Buck or Bull that walks out!
Post by: MtnMuley on January 07, 2011, 03:19:40 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 07, 2011, 09:48:45 PM
Post by: deleted BGS on January 17, 2011, 11:48:57 AM
Sounds like your nuts to me- for starters- bragging that you can shoot and elk at 70 yds with an arrow tells me your a dumb ass. Do you know how far an elk an move by the time your arrow gets to it? Completely and totally DUMB. Then you go on to imply rangefinders are unethical because they improve yearly harvest quotas. I'm willing to bet that because of the use of rangefinders- most hunters wound less game because they tag out after the first shot- unlike the guy that wounds 3 elk a year by taking 70 yard shots with his bow only to eat tag soup at the end of the season.
Heard several stories like that this year and no elk found. They jump the arrow and hit them in the a## or shoulder and bye bye. I would have to agree with you.
Post by: BlackRidge on January 17, 2011, 12:09:54 PM
Missed a few shots on critters this weekend due to improperly judged ranges, not too pleased. For the price, its definitely a useful tool to have in your arsenal. The one time I used a buddies, it really helped to up that confidence level
Post by: deleted BGS on January 17, 2011, 07:47:03 PM
I said it before take away all the electronics and leave our seasons alone. Never used them in the 18 years I have hunted don't see a need to use them anytime soon. Practice and you dont need something to tell you where to aim.
:twocents: If you need a range finder to use a bow then you aren't practicing enough :twocents:
:twocents: Maybe put down the crutch and walk on your own 2 feet :twocents:
I dont care how many hundred arrows you shoot at a target, once you get into the field or any unfamiliar area good luck. 52 or 60 thats a huge difference. Miss low to over the back. You might guess lucky once, but not many more times, especially at 37 53 46 etc.. You can be close but not precise.
Post by: throttlejocky20 on January 18, 2011, 06:09:20 PM
:yeah:To say using a rangefinder is like having a crutch is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. There is so many varibles in bow hunting and this gives the chance to make one go away. You still have to make the shot, there is still wind, all the same branches are still there, animals dont always stay still, and you cant through out adrenilin. So if useing a tool that tells me the exact yardage is haveing a crutch then right on. I would like to see some of these people guess yardage within a couple yards every time. Chances are they are off more than there on.I said it before take away all the electronics and leave our seasons alone. Never used them in the 18 years I have hunted don't see a need to use them anytime soon. Practice and you dont need something to tell you where to aim.
:twocents: If you need a range finder to use a bow then you aren't practicing enough :twocents:
:twocents: Maybe put down the crutch and walk on your own 2 feet :twocents:
I dont care how many hundred arrows you shoot at a target, once you get into the field or any unfamiliar area good luck. 52 or 60 thats a huge difference. Miss low to over the back. You might guess lucky once, but not many more times, especially at 37 53 46 etc.. You can be close but not precise.
Post by: TeacherMan on January 18, 2011, 06:33:40 PM
Post by: bwhntr350 on January 19, 2011, 07:55:57 AM
I do, as many, practice out to 80 yards. My arrow groups go about 1" to 1 1/2" for every ten yards. So, 20 yards=2"-3" . . . 40 yards=4"-6" . . .70 yards = 7"-10" etc.
I had a bull jump my string in 1985 and I will never forget that feeling, as I wounded it and never found it. I will do anything, stopping short of quitting hunting, to never feel that again. I owe it to my quarry.
As self-righteous as this all sounds, in my opinion, there are just way too many variables that can happen over an extended distance. In my belief, if I try a shot at a longer distance than my set limit, then I am being selfish. I have the will power to not shoot and try to get closer, after all, to me, that is what bow hunting is all about.
I don't use the technology (faster,flatter shooting bows, range finders, etc.) to "improve" my chances at long distances, I use it to, practically, "insure" a kill at 40 yards.
To each his own, though. I do not judge others because they do differently than I. This is my game plan and it has worked out quite well, for me.
Post by: bowkid on January 29, 2011, 09:36:45 AM