Post by: jboy on March 21, 2011, 08:15:23 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 21, 2011, 08:17:35 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 21, 2011, 08:26:27 AM
Post by: bass2elk on March 21, 2011, 08:56:30 AM
Post by: jboy on March 21, 2011, 11:22:02 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 21, 2011, 11:26:13 AM
Post by: JLS on March 21, 2011, 11:27:29 AM
I heard a rumor that they didn't even sell enough to have a draw..........
I heard a rumor that due to lack of public interest, they were cancelling the 2011 hunting season.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on March 21, 2011, 11:51:47 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 21, 2011, 02:17:44 PM
I have a hard time believing that rumor.
Quota 17,000 this year. Still waiting for all the "postmarked by March 15" letters to make it final. By the way, that rumor came out of the mouth of a MT Fish and Wildlife employee. :)
Post by: GoldTip on March 21, 2011, 02:22:21 PM
I have a hard time believing that rumor.
I agree. Price for Montana is very insignificantly higher than Idaho NR tags, with lots more public land to spread out on. I will be shocked if there are truly leftover tags.
Post by: MtnMuley on March 21, 2011, 02:28:53 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 21, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
Were there not left over tags last year? After the alternate list guys had the chance to buy, weren't the left over tags available to anybody wanting them? I realize a lot of these tags were turned in by outfitters and people deciding not to hunt, quite a while after the draw. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Not buck tags. All the left overs go to the guys on the "alternate" list. I think there were some outfitter tags and some landowner sponsored tags leftover for purchase, but not General NR buck tags.
Post by: Cascade on March 21, 2011, 05:27:36 PM
Post by: rb2506 on March 21, 2011, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 21, 2011, 05:36:50 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 22, 2011, 08:17:05 AM
Were there not left over tags last year? After the alternate list guys had the chance to buy, weren't the left over tags available to anybody wanting them? I realize a lot of these tags were turned in by outfitters and people deciding not to hunt, quite a while after the draw. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Not buck tags. All the left overs go to the guys on the "alternate" list. I think there were some outfitter tags and some landowner sponsored tags leftover for purchase, but not General NR buck tags.
Are you sure? Usually the alternate guys buy the rest of the quota, but last year with all the tags available even after the alternate guys, it opened to the general public. At least that is what I was told buy a guy went over and bought a combo tag November OTC. :dunno:
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 22, 2011, 09:07:08 AM
Post by: KimberRich on March 22, 2011, 09:11:07 AM
APril 15th or so.
x2
I usually start getting serious checking the website for results around the first day of Turkey season. Nothing like shooting a nice bird in the morning and finding out you got your Montana tag in the afternoon! Makes for a good day.
Post by: KimberRich on March 22, 2011, 09:13:57 AM
I was wondering if that was going to be the case.I figured all of the guides would still get there clients tags but i know that i have hunted there for the past five years until they increased 300 hundred dollars for the Big Game Combo. I am guessing they will be selling over the counter tags now.
All the guides wont be getting them this year.. If their client doesn't draw in the general or the get one on the "alternate" list.. No more guaranteed tags.
Post by: KimberRich on March 22, 2011, 09:19:56 AM
Were there not left over tags last year? After the alternate list guys had the chance to buy, weren't the left over tags available to anybody wanting them? I realize a lot of these tags were turned in by outfitters and people deciding not to hunt, quite a while after the draw. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Not buck tags. All the left overs go to the guys on the "alternate" list. I think there were some outfitter tags and some landowner sponsored tags leftover for purchase, but not General NR buck tags.
The leftover outfitter tags went back into the pot. Thus the tags given to the guys on the alternate's list. There were no leftover landowner tags either after the alternate's list. I only apply for Landowner Deer so am only up to speed on the numbers for that drawing for sure. In years past, usually only 15-20 guys on the landowner tag alternate's list got tags. I think that number was usually higher in the General Deer Drawing. I'm not sure on the big game combo #'s.
Post by: KimberRich on March 22, 2011, 09:25:32 AM
The prices went up across the board but the draw odds also went up slightly for general Deer and the combo. I apply for the Landowner Sponsor Deer and my prices went up of course, but none of the tags put back in the drawing, were added to the landowner #'s. So I have the same odds as last year with an additional $200 tacked on. :bash:
Post by: JLS on March 22, 2011, 09:29:59 AM
The rest of us are happy to share our pain!
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 22, 2011, 09:52:07 AM
One thing that chapped my a** this year with the new tag #'s and division of the old landowner tags was, the old outfitter tags were only disbursed between the General Deer and Big Game Combo (elk/deer).
The prices went up across the board but the draw odds also went up slightly for general Deer and the combo. I apply for the Landowner Sponsor Deer and my prices went up of course, but none of the tags put back in the drawing, were added to the landowner #'s. So I have the same odds as last year with an additional $200 tacked on. :bash:
I can see how that would be frustrating. However, your chances of drawing a landowner tag have traditionally been around 70%, aren't they? I looked into a lease a couple of years ago that would have come with a landowner sponsorship, and that is about what I found...
I could be wrong here, but with the prices going up so much this year, I would think your draw rate would be close to 90% even without more tags going into the pool... :dunno:
The NR Deer A Combo rate for the rest of us schmucks was hovering between 20% and 25%, even with the economy.
Post by: MtnMuley on March 22, 2011, 10:48:24 AM
I guess I am not positive, but I am sure that there were several guys on this site that were on the Alternate list that never got called. .270Shooter comes immediately to mind... Bigmike too...
I was on the alternate list and was not chosen or called either. I got on their website shortly after and read that all alternates were able to purchase their combos. I chose not to at that time, but a friend who was 15?? on the list, bought his. You had to check on your own, they didn't get a hold of you.
Post by: alpine on March 22, 2011, 11:44:42 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 22, 2011, 05:00:39 PM
I guess I am not positive, but I am sure that there were several guys on this site that were on the Alternate list that never got called. .270Shooter comes immediately to mind... Bigmike too...
I was on the alternate list and was not chosen or called either. I got on their website shortly after and read that all alternates were able to purchase their combos. I chose not to at that time, but a friend who was 15?? on the list, bought his. You had to check on your own, they didn't get a hold of you.
Oh, well then you knew something that I didn't. I drew last year, so I wasn't following the Alternate list. Interesting. If things hold up then with the price increase, then just about everyone that ponies up the money, wants to hunt, and knows enough to check back from time to time should be able to hunt MT. Last year was a great year to go. A lot of guys on this site killed big bucks. That crazy freak snowstorm the week before Thanksgiving didn't hurt either...
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 23, 2011, 04:26:08 PM
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2011, 04:57:31 PM
Post by: Huntnphish on March 23, 2011, 05:16:55 PM
However, your chances of drawing a landowner tag have traditionally been around 70%, aren't they? I looked into a lease a couple of years ago that would have come with a landowner sponsorship, and that is about what I found...
The landowner tag % are not that high and the entire landowner draw system is different than the general draw. The odds are not good if you have more than 2 people applying for the same deeded land. :twocents:
Post by: rb2506 on March 23, 2011, 06:01:49 PM
It's because they had leftover Outfitter Sponsored Licenses, which then go as surplus to anyone who applied but did not draw.
actually you didn't even have to put in for the drawing, there were so many tags left after they opened it up to alternates they let anyone buy over the counter
Post by: DeerHarvester on March 23, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 24, 2011, 08:26:54 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 24, 2011, 08:48:32 AM
Post by: HenrySeattle2002 on March 24, 2011, 10:47:01 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 24, 2011, 10:51:13 AM
Post by: HenrySeattle2002 on March 24, 2011, 10:52:27 AM
If you are unsuccessful in the draw for a deer, elk, or combo tag, you can put your name in for free on the ALT list so be in a "ranking" order is anymore tags become available.
Is the ranking based on your points or first come first serve? Any idea when they will be drawing for Montana?
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 24, 2011, 11:05:01 AM
Post by: KimberRich on March 24, 2011, 12:51:25 PM
If you are unsuccessful in the draw for a deer, elk, or combo tag, you can put your name in for free on the ALT list so be in a "ranking" order is anymore tags become available.
Is the ranking based on your points or first come first serve? Any idea when they will be drawing for Montana?
They will have set dates like May 1st-May20th to put your name in the ALT list pool. After the pool closes they will hold a random drawing with all the names to determine people's place on the ALT list. You will not automatically be put into this drawing for ALT list placement if you were unsuccessful in the original draw. So be sure to watch the website carefully as to when the ALT list pool is being collected. Hopefully you get drawn in the first one and wont have to worry about any of it!! Good Luck!
Post by: KimberRich on March 24, 2011, 01:03:01 PM
However, your chances of drawing a landowner tag have traditionally been around 70%, aren't they? I looked into a lease a couple of years ago that would have come with a landowner sponsorship, and that is about what I found...
The landowner tag % are not that high and the entire landowner draw system is different than the general draw. The odds are not good if you have more than 2 people applying for the same deeded land. :twocents:
I agree that the % are not that high. I crunched all the numbers for the last couple years and I think the General was somewhere around 22% (2300 tags for ~ 10500 applicants I think) and the Landowner was somewhere around 35% (2000 tags with 5800 applicants I think). They are better but no where near 70%. These are the Deer only #'s. I don't know about the Combo #'s for sure. Also remember that in the Landowner drawing we do not accumulate bonus points. That is a General Drawing thing only.
I'm not sure how 2 different people applying for the same land would change the odds? My family has 30 landowner Sponsorships (the state allows up to 15 per resident with 640 contiguos acres I believe???) and the #'s of successful hunter's generally coorolates with the overall average in the drawing.
Post by: KimberRich on March 24, 2011, 01:12:35 PM
It's because they had leftover Outfitter Sponsored Licenses, which then go as surplus to anyone who applied but did not draw.
actually you didn't even have to put in for the drawing, there were so many tags left after they opened it up to alternates they let anyone buy over the counter
But you had to be on the Alternate's List to buy the Over the Counter tags.. At least for Deer. Which I didn't understand??
I got drawn last year but my Dad, Uncle, and Cousin did not. They all went on the Alt list. My Dad got lucky and drew position #6, my uncle had #31 and my cousin had #34. Sept. 1st came and went and they hadn't notified my Dad about a tag and shortly after they opened up the First Come-First Served Over the counter tags. My Dad was showing as in position #1 on the website so he opted to hold out and try and get the ALT list tag. My Uncle and Cousin mailed in their applications for the OTC tags and both received buck tags. MFWP contacted my Dad 3 days prior to the rifle season opener with his tag. So we ended up getting 4 buck tags but it was quite the process of applications and drawings and lists...
Post by: bearpaw on March 24, 2011, 01:18:24 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 24, 2011, 02:39:16 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 24, 2011, 03:24:21 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 24, 2011, 03:25:53 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 24, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
Post by: benhuntin on March 24, 2011, 07:17:20 PM
Forgot to mention, it sounds like the deer should be high draw odds, from what I was told it's not a huge oversell.What do you mean by oversell, isnt it a draw :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: Huntnphish on March 24, 2011, 07:26:40 PM
I'm not sure how 2 different people applying for the same land would change the odds? My family has 30 landowner Sponsorships (the state allows up to 15 per resident with 640 contiguos acres I believe???) and the #'s of successful hunter's generally coorolates with the overall average in the drawing.
Its mainly based on the number of landowners that are participating. If there are less than 1000 owners participating then each landowner will recieve 2 tags. If there are any of the 2000 tags remaining then those remaining tags are randomly drawn to remaining applicants.
If there are more than 1000 landowners participating then each landowner is not even guaranteed 2 tags.
Post by: KimberRich on March 25, 2011, 07:59:14 AM
I'm not sure how 2 different people applying for the same land would change the odds? My family has 30 landowner Sponsorships (the state allows up to 15 per resident with 640 contiguos acres I believe???) and the #'s of successful hunter's generally coorolates with the overall average in the drawing.
Its mainly based on the number of landowners that are participating. If there are less than 1000 owners participating then each landowner will recieve 2 tags. If there are any of the 2000 tags remaining then those remaining tags are randomly drawn to remaining applicants.
If there are more than 1000 landowners participating then each landowner is not even guaranteed 2 tags.
What do you mean each landowner will receive 2 tags? I'm confused on what you are saying?? Are you talking if there are less applications than there are total tags??
Each landowner is not guaranteed any tags. They are given Landowner consent forms to attach to your application to allow you to get into the Landowner Drawing. Nothing is guaranteed. Before my family expanded the # number of tags they were getting from 15 to 30 a few years back, there was a year when only 1 person of the 15 were drawn. The very next year 13 of the 15 were drawn.
Post by: bearpaw on March 25, 2011, 08:07:13 AM
Post by: KimberRich on March 25, 2011, 08:46:34 AM
Not a quarantee that every applicant will draw, but that at least all landowners recieve an equal certain number who will draw, and the excess applicants are a random draw. This way when there are too many applicants every landowner could count on getting 1 or 2 applicants drawn.
I hadn't heard of that. I had no idea that every landowner could count on getting one or two tags. But looking back over the years, at least 1 or 2 people were always drawn on my family's sponsorship so it makes sense. So what happens if they only had 2 applicants? They would both get tags guaranteed?
Post by: Huntnphish on March 25, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
I hadn't heard of that. I had no idea that every landowner could count on getting one or two tags. But looking back over the years, at least 1 or 2 people were always drawn on my family's sponsorship so it makes sense. So what happens if they only had 2 applicants? They would both get tags guaranteed?
Just a suggestion, but before you explain how a system works on a website with 7000 members, complete with draw odds, you should understand how the system works yourself. :twocents:
Quote
Landowner Sponsor: Two thousand nonresident Deer Combination Licenses are set aside for deer hunters sponsored by Montana landowners to hunt deer on the sponsors deeded land. Landowners who own 640 or more contiguous acres are eligible to sponsor hunters. Licenses are distributed equally, up to two sponsored hunters per landowner, before the remaining licenses are issued in a random drawing.
Bearpaw is correct!!!
Post by: KimberRich on March 25, 2011, 10:02:34 AM
I hadn't heard of that. I had no idea that every landowner could count on getting one or two tags. But looking back over the years, at least 1 or 2 people were always drawn on my family's sponsorship so it makes sense. So what happens if they only had 2 applicants? They would both get tags guaranteed?
Just a suggestion, but before you explain how a system works on a website with 7000 members, complete with draw odds, you should understand how the system works yourself. :twocents:QuoteLandowner Sponsor: Two thousand nonresident Deer Combination Licenses are set aside for deer hunters sponsored by Montana landowners to hunt deer on the sponsors deeded land. Landowners who own 640 or more contiguous acres are eligible to sponsor hunters. Licenses are distributed equally, up to two sponsored hunters per landowner, before the remaining licenses are issued in a random drawing.
Bearpaw is correct!!!
Good advice. I honestly thought I knew more about the draw process over there than I apparently do??? The draw odds info is directly from MFWP so I'm hoping that is correct.
I've helped my family over there with the process and helped them deal with the state and helped with all the paperwork for years now and in my 20+ emails with MFWP in the last 2 years about draw #'s and odds and rule changes and everything else I have never heard that they evenly distribute the tags among the landowners and then divide up the remaining tags. I just got off the phone with my Uncle in Lewistown and he said it's news to him after doing the landowner sponsorship for many years.
I learn something new every day!
Anyone have any ideas on how many landowners on average participate?
Post by: Huntnphish on March 25, 2011, 10:07:23 AM
Anyone have any ideas on how many landowners on average participate?Quote
That, my friend, is key to whole thing. ;) PM sent