Post by: bearpaw on March 28, 2011, 06:00:05 PM
However, for this to happen this bill does need to pass the legislature. If it will pass, I think the governor will sign it, she has signed it in the past.
Thanks In advance for helping, Dale
If the law passes and you draw, just PM me and we'll try to go hunting.
______________________________
To help out with passage copy and paste the following email adresses and send the following message or a message of your own:
frank.chopp@leg.wa.gov; richard.debolt@leg.wa.gov; jan.angel@leg.wa.gov; mike.armstrong@leg.wa.gov; cathy.dahlquist@leg.wa.gov; deborah.eddy@leg.wa.gov; david.frockt@leg.wa.gov; roger.goodman@leg.wa.gov; tami.green@leg.wa.gov; norm.johnson@leg.wa.gov; troy.kelley@leg.wa.gov; joel.kretz@leg.wa.gov; marcie.maxwell@leg.wa.gov; jim.moeller@leg.wa.gov; tina.orwall@leg.wa.gov; eric.pettigrew@leg.wa.gov; tim.probst@leg.wa.gov; ann.rivers@leg.wa.gov; cindy.ryu@leg.wa.gov; joe.schmick@leg.wa.gov; shelly.short@leg.wa.gov; larry.springer@leg.wa.gov; pat.sullivan@leg.wa.gov; kevin.vandewege@leg.wa.gov; judy.warnick@leg.wa.gov
Dear Representative,
Please pass SB5356 Cougar Hound Hunting. Since the Pilot Cougar program was started, cougar attacks on humans, pets, and livestock have decreased significantly. Please pass SB5356 so that residents can continue to live and recreate safely and ranchers can continue to enjoy a safer environment for raising their livestock in rural Washington.
THANK YOU,
______________________________
APRIL UPDATE:
Well my friends I'm sorry to report, it looks like all hound hunting of cougars has been cancelled by Democratic leadership in the House, by failing to bring the measure up for a vote.
Post by: bowhunterforever on March 28, 2011, 09:35:52 PM
Post by: 7mag. on March 28, 2011, 09:40:23 PM
When will we know if the bill passes and what units do you hound hunt? I would love to hound hunt cougs :drool:
:yeah:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 28, 2011, 09:48:52 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2011, 09:56:10 PM
Mulehunter. :)
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on March 28, 2011, 10:05:53 PM
Post by: fair-chase on March 28, 2011, 11:32:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 29, 2011, 08:57:39 AM
Remember, it hasn't passed yet, but in the substitute bill language, they added that you can't pay for hounds. Essentially if it doesn't pass I can't hunt my dogs in Washington unless the WDFW calls with a problem cat, if it passes I can't charge anything to use my dogs, but, if I want to hunt my dogs in Washington I need the bill to pass and I need someone who draws a tag to hunt with.
I obviously can't afford to go too far from home, so if you want to come hunt with me, apply for the the Northeast corner. Ferry or Stevens. Be aware that this is pretty hard core hunting if you want to be successful, long hours and determination are needed and I'm not interested in hunting any way but the most effective way. If you have a snowmobile to bring, that will help too in case the snow is deep. When it gets closer, we'll know by the weather if snowmobiles are needed.
I've had some questions about this. Yes, I wished they didn't add on that language, but they did add the language to get it out of committee and if it passes that's probably the way it will be. So it's pure and simple to me, if I want to hunt my dogs in Washington, I should throw out this offer. I will have to work around my business commitments, but I am always home for at least part of the winter. :hello:
Post by: rtspring on March 29, 2011, 09:03:09 AM
Awesome offer. I have never done any hound hunting like this, I bet it is a kick in the pants. I will for sure put in for it.........
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 29, 2011, 09:06:16 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on March 29, 2011, 09:37:50 AM
I will do my part. :twocents:
Post by: machine on March 29, 2011, 09:38:25 AM
Post by: Machias on March 30, 2011, 11:26:48 AM
Post by: bearpaw on March 30, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
What else can we do Dale, BUT take folks who have drawn a tag? I can't remember, does the hound handler also have to have a hunting license? I think they do, don't they? I'll have to check. I'm not participating anymore in the drawings, so I won't be getting another cougar tag in WA. The only way I'll be going is tagging along with someone else as well. I'll be hunting my dogs hard in Dec for a lion in Idaho.
Hi Fred, I am pretty sure you must have at least the combo bear/cougar over-the-counter tags. Then you can accompany a limited-entry cougar tag holder as a hound handler.
By guiding it has helped me cover the costs of owning hounds. But as I said, it seems to me that if the bill passes (and the bill is better than nothing), I can either offer to help others for free or not plan on hunting my dogs in Washington unless the WDFW calls, (they may never call me again as much as I have rocked the boat lately). But, I would much rather hunt my dogs as much as I can afford, so that is why I made the offer to take anyone for free. :twocents:
BTW - If I get lucky and draw or if I have another tag holder, and you don't draw again in Idaho, you are welcome to come up and hunt with me. :hello:
That's good for you too mulehunter.... :)
Post by: Machias on March 30, 2011, 01:51:49 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on March 30, 2011, 02:09:23 PM
You guys have been around this stuff for a while, what do you think the chances of getting some attention would be if we got the guys on the call out list to tell the WDFW to push the hound hunting legislation or go run a cat on their own?
Thoughts?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 30, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 30, 2011, 02:28:18 PM
JB
Post by: Machias on March 30, 2011, 04:20:31 PM
Fred and Dale... I've been thinking about this for a while and wonder what the WDFW would do if hound hunters could all put our heads together and make an agreement not to run the cats when they call. Everyone recognizes the need for us when there is a problem animal, but to hell with us when we want to maintain a trained dog by running a cat/bear.
You guys have been around this stuff for a while, what do you think the chances of getting some attention would be if we got the guys on the call out list to tell the WDFW to push the hound hunting legislation or go run a cat on their own?
Thoughts?
It's tough, someone would end up being the go to guy and the rest of us would just sit at home all ticked off and no closer to working our dogs. I just want a pursuit tag, could care less about shooting one. But running them a few days of the year is not the answer. Heck try and take one out right now just to get them and keep them in shape for bear over in Idaho and I'm sure they will be trying to give me a ticket. I don't have the answers, but I have a feeling the boycott would not work. And pulling dogs off the shelf and dusting them off a couple of times a year is not going to work either. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on March 31, 2011, 09:56:50 AM
Fred and Dale... I've been thinking about this for a while and wonder what the WDFW would do if hound hunters could all put our heads together and make an agreement not to run the cats when they call. Everyone recognizes the need for us when there is a problem animal, but to hell with us when we want to maintain a trained dog by running a cat/bear.
You guys have been around this stuff for a while, what do you think the chances of getting some attention would be if we got the guys on the call out list to tell the WDFW to push the hound hunting legislation or go run a cat on their own?
Thoughts?
This was talked about after I-655 passed in the 90's but as you know you can never get a room full of any hunters to agree on anything. Actually the WDFW is testifying and asking for hound hunting. The hold up is with legislators who are sympathetic to the huggers who are opposed to hound hunting.
Post by: quadrafire on March 31, 2011, 10:07:59 AM
Post by: THunt on March 31, 2011, 10:51:19 AM
Tyler
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 01:30:34 PM
Hey guys what are the rules on ID/MT for running dogs in the off season to keep them in shape? I know neither Dale or Fred are far from the ID border. I know this is off the subject somewhat, but was just wondering.
Well for ID, in order to have your dogs there you must draw one of the 70 non-resident hound permits. Otherwise you are SOL. I have one for this year so I'm ok until 31 Dec. My guys will get plenty of work this year. Plus their coon season is 365 days a year. :IBCOOL: My problem here in WA is I won't unsnap a leash unless my guys are wearing tracking collars, even just roading them through wheat fields to get in shape. Once I do that well basically I'm breaking the law. There is no easy way to keep your dogs in shape in this state. I have thought about building a treadmill for them or daily swimming might work. Not as convenient or as easy as roading them though.
Post by: quadrafire on March 31, 2011, 02:22:52 PM
Hey guys what are the rules on ID/MT for running dogs in the off season to keep them in shape? I know neither Dale or Fred are far from the ID border. I know this is off the subject somewhat, but was just wondering.
Well for ID, in order to have your dogs there you must draw one of the 70 non-resident hound permits. Otherwise you are SOL. I have one for this year so I'm ok until 31 Dec. My guys will get plenty of work this year. Plus their coon season is 365 days a year. :IBCOOL: My problem here in WA is I won't unsnap a leash unless my guys are wearing tracking collars, even just roading them through wheat fields to get in shape. Once I do that well basically I'm breaking the law. There is no easy way to keep your dogs in shape in this state. I have thought about building a treadmill for them or daily swimming might work. Not as convenient or as easy as roading them though.
Become an ultra-marathoner and run the hell out of them :chuckle: Do they make PX90 for dogs, or Ty-bo
I can see where keeping a dog in working shape is so dang difficult. The problem with just swimming is that their feet would never toughen up.
Post by: grundy53 on March 31, 2011, 02:32:33 PM
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 02:38:08 PM
Hey guys what are the rules on ID/MT for running dogs in the off season to keep them in shape? I know neither Dale or Fred are far from the ID border. I know this is off the subject somewhat, but was just wondering.
Well for ID, in order to have your dogs there you must draw one of the 70 non-resident hound permits. Otherwise you are SOL. I have one for this year so I'm ok until 31 Dec. My guys will get plenty of work this year. Plus their coon season is 365 days a year. :IBCOOL: My problem here in WA is I won't unsnap a leash unless my guys are wearing tracking collars, even just roading them through wheat fields to get in shape. Once I do that well basically I'm breaking the law. There is no easy way to keep your dogs in shape in this state. I have thought about building a treadmill for them or daily swimming might work. Not as convenient or as easy as roading them though.
Become an ultra-marathoner and run the hell out of them :chuckle: Do they make PX90 for dogs, or Ty-bo
I can see where keeping a dog in working shape is so dang difficult. The problem with just swimming is that their feet would never toughen up.
VERY true!
Post by: bearpaw on April 01, 2011, 03:21:16 AM
Great offer Dale. I understand you couldn't be paid out right because this bill but could they really say anything if you offered your clients the hunt for free then charge them (whatever the going rate for a cougar hunt is) for lodging? Might not be staying true to the intent of the law but the law is B.S.
Grundy, I appreciate you trying to help with ideas and completely agree that this language is BS. Essentually the huggers are trying to keep the average guy from being able to go cougar hunting. The legislator who sponsored the bill is a great guy and had to add the language only so he could get the bill passed. But it is still better than no cougar bill. :twocents:
There will be ways to circumvent the law but I don't like gray area, it has a way of biting you in the posterior and getting you in trouble. I do currently offer lodging, but if I charged someone more for lodging than our current lodging fee, it would be a pretty obvious what I was doing.
If the law passes as currently written, I will probably continue to offer lodging to any cougar permit holder (including other dog hunters) just like I do now. If it's against the law to charge for hounds, I will not charge anything for helping someone hunt a cougar with my dogs or it would be asking for trouble and destroy my reputation. I also will not require that anyone purchases lodging for me to help them on a cougar hunt. If a hunter would rather stay at a friend or stay in town at the motel that is fine. If my fellow hound hunters machias, mulehunter, Wacoyote, or some other local hound friends want to get their hounds in on some dog hunting and don't have tags of their own, they are invited to come along. This year we had numerous other friends who came along to hunt their dogs since I had some hunters who drew tags.
I'll make necessary changes after the law passes and ask WDFW to scrutinize my cougar page so I know I'm following the law: http://bearpawoutfitters.com/washington_cougar_hunting.html (http://bearpawoutfitters.com/washington_cougar_hunting.html)
Here's a video for those who haven't been involved in hound hunting before.
Cougar Hunting In Washington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foe9-jnK6d4#)
Post by: mulehunter on April 01, 2011, 05:10:10 AM
Mulehunter. :)
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 01, 2011, 08:42:30 AM
Bearpaw, thanks soo much. I will keep eye on tags. If nothin. I definely will like come up help find.cut and enjoy time.with ya.+1 Of course, I'm pretty likely to get a tag this year. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mulehunter. :)
Thanks!
Post by: rasbo on April 01, 2011, 08:47:56 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 08, 2011, 03:37:24 PM
Bearpaw, thanks soo much. I will keep eye on tags. If nothin. I definely will like come up help find.cut and enjoy time.with ya.+1 Of course, I'm pretty likely to get a tag this year. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Mulehunter. :)
Thanks!
The House still hasn't passed the Bill, I am holding my breath, I have not heard what the hold up is.
Post by: bearpaw on April 19, 2011, 07:01:39 AM
Post by: Alan K on April 19, 2011, 07:28:56 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 19, 2011, 11:01:47 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 19, 2011, 11:16:35 AM
I maintain that it's wiser to allow everyone an opprtunity at hunting cougar than try to restrict it to houndhunters like some hounders want to do. We need everyones support. By restricting guiding cougar it is no different than restricting guides and charter boats for salmon fishing. How much support would there be for salmon fishing if people had no way to do it. Everytime I have gone to westport or Lapush I have gone on charter boats, I don't own the equipment to do it myself. :twocents:
Post by: mulehunter on April 19, 2011, 11:20:27 AM
Mulehunter. :bash:
Post by: bucklucky on April 19, 2011, 11:23:41 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 19, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 19, 2011, 11:25:39 AM
O WELL We can not give up ...We try again next year !!!!!!!!!
Post by: Houndhunter on April 19, 2011, 11:26:22 AM
O WELL We can not give up ...We try again next year !!!!!!!!!
thats the truth
Post by: mulehunter on April 19, 2011, 11:40:27 AM
Mulehunter.
Post by: grundy53 on April 19, 2011, 11:44:51 AM
theres alot of argurable points to why it needed to be hound owners only, like when its open to the public the hound owners dont get to run their dogs. alot different situation than salmon fishing i think
I guess your right.... oh wait no hound hunting period means you don't get to run your dogs at all. Nice thinking. Cut off your nose to spite your face....
Post by: Houndhunter on April 19, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
i think it'd still be around if it wernt for all the attention it got after it went public, most people didnt even know that there was still a hound program. it was thought of as more a safety program rather than the sport hunt it is now. i really cant see them not allowing hound hunts for very long, i forget the actuall numbers but the complaints shot up considerably the first year it closed in 96. and continued to rise dramtically there after to the point where they had to do something. i just hope they go back to the orignal plan
Post by: grundy53 on April 19, 2011, 12:04:04 PM
i really dont get your point grundy, but in the last 4 years since ive had my hound i can count the number of lions we've treed together on one hand. the year they opened up to the public we stopped getting tags so its been like there was no houndhunting since. you cant run your dog one or two times a year, or skip years in between or all you got is a untrained pet.My point is, your divisive attitude is why we lose these hunts.
i think it'd still be around if it wernt for all the attention it got after it went public, most people didnt even know that there was still a hound program. it was thought of as more a safety program rather than the sport hunt it is now. i really cant see them not allowing hound hunts for very long, i forget the actuall numbers but the complaints shot up considerably the first year it closed in 96. and continued to rise dramtically there after to the point where they had to do something. i just hope they go back to the orignal plan
Post by: bearpaw on April 19, 2011, 12:09:32 PM
theres alot of argurable points to why it needed to be hound owners only, like when its open to the public the hound owners dont get to run their dogs. alot different situation than salmon fishing i think
I'm sorry Houndhunter, I don't see the wisdom in your statement. What I see is that some houndhunters want to do all the shooting themselves and keep the sport to themselves.
The general hunting public doesn't have hounds, if you were willing to help other hunters get a cat, then your dogs could get hunted. You could have friends put in for tags or even folks off this forum and help them with their cat or you could guide hunts, that helps with the cost of owning dogs, both of which I do, and my dogs get hunted. Now I am stuck going out of state to run my dogs at all, in part possibly because there is so much jealousy in hunting and one hunter will not help another. As you can see by my thread, even though I couldn't guide, I still wanted to help others if they drew. At the same time I asked for their support of the issue. That is a win/win for everyone.
Not only would this get my dogs hunted, but it also builds support for hound hunting if other folks think they will have a chance to participate. The worst thing a hounder can do is try to keep his sport to himself. We can not win this battle alone, we need all hunters helping to support the issue and you don't get their support by telling them they can't participate. :twocents: :bash:
I don't mean to sound like I am lecturing you, and I admit that I am probably doing that, but I hope you will take a moment and think about these points and try to see the importance of involving all hunters in cougar hunting. Without broad support, our hounds will never hunt cougar in Washington again, it is really that simple.
Quote
O WELL We can not give up ...We try again next year !!!!!!!!!
:yeah: that's all we can do at this point, try, try again, thanks much for your support.... :)
Quote
i think it'd still be around if it wernt for all the attention it got after it went public, most people didnt even know that there was still a hound program. it was thought of as more a safety program rather than the sport hunt it is now. i really cant see them not allowing hound hunts for very long, i forget the actuall numbers but the complaints shot up considerably the first year it closed in 96. and continued to rise dramtically there after to the point where they had to do something. i just hope they go back to the orignal plan
This is somewhat a valid point, the antis made it an issue that guides were offering hunts (emphasis on myself). Your comment actually gets to the core of the issue, it's an anti-hunting issue. For this reason we need to beat the opposition and allow public cougar hunting if we ever want to have cougar hunting around the entire state. I guarantee a lot of legislators were educated and support was built for the issue. The bill would have passed if the Democratic leadership would let it come up for a vote, that's why they prevented it from coming to a vote. No doubt, problems will increase in a few years and something will have to be done. Hopefully the eventual solution will allow everyone to hunt.
Post by: grundy53 on April 19, 2011, 12:16:13 PM
Post by: jackmaster on April 19, 2011, 12:35:39 PM
Post by: Alan K on April 19, 2011, 12:48:06 PM
Post by: mulehunter on April 19, 2011, 01:01:49 PM
I think people are forgetting the point. About here today. This is a big picture here today.
I bet u people when u went to winter reserve at Ellensburg watching 1,000 or more elk down there and u watch 7 to 12 wolves running down ridge and start chase elk and drag down a bull. Everyday they torn cow elk everyday. Down there and no body can't shoot it. And u see a point. House floor are all deaf and wont support all ur comments.
I know few people like here are awsome education and want all more people to help. But that's best we can do.
Maybe 10 years later, I will remember all names who needs our helps and I wont forget what happen. Some people did best they can. I even post facebook and seem no one cares. We will see what happen after huge increase population kittens out there. I remember seattle time pic of 8 cougars on trailcamera. And police kill two cougars already down south by tri-cities, i guess That explains a lot that house floor doesn't care. :yike
Mulehunter.
Post by: bearpaw on April 19, 2011, 03:40:02 PM
Alan K I plan to apply for ghost points because I know the nature of the cats and I know in a few short years the legislature will have to deal with this again. So yes, I would apply for ghost points if I were you.
Post by: grundy53 on April 19, 2011, 03:41:58 PM
Post by: Alan K on April 19, 2011, 04:56:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 04:59:57 PM
i don't know if you can apply for ghost points. I was going to but they didn't have it as one of the options when I was buying my applications online. They only had cougar without hounds. :dunno:
A cougar point is a cougar point. Apply for a point in the "cougar without hounds" permits. Then use your points later if they ever have hound hunting permits.
Post by: grundy53 on April 19, 2011, 05:16:22 PM
i don't know if you can apply for ghost points. I was going to but they didn't have it as one of the options when I was buying my applications online. They only had cougar without hounds. :dunno:
A cougar point is a cougar point. Apply for a point in the "cougar without hounds" permits. Then use your points later if they ever have hound hunting permits.
K. Thanks. Will do.
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 05:21:39 PM
i don't know if you can apply for ghost points. I was going to but they didn't have it as one of the options when I was buying my applications online. They only had cougar without hounds. :dunno:
A cougar point is a cougar point. Apply for a point in the "cougar without hounds" permits. Then use your points later if they ever have hound hunting permits.
K. Thanks. Will do.
Actually now that I think about it I'm not sure. If they have two separate categories, then I guess a point in one category wouldn't do you any good in the other category. Maybe Bearpaw or someone else can verify this. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on April 19, 2011, 05:29:51 PM
i don't know if you can apply for ghost points. I was going to but they didn't have it as one of the options when I was buying my applications online. They only had cougar without hounds. :dunno:
A cougar point is a cougar point. Apply for a point in the "cougar without hounds" permits. Then use your points later if they ever have hound hunting permits.
K. Thanks. Will do.
Actually now that I think about it I'm not sure. If they have two separate categories, then I guess a point in one category wouldn't do you any good in the other category. Maybe Bearpaw or someone else can verify this. :dunno:
Good Question, about all you can do is apply for the ghost point so you don't draw the cougar without hounds, then hope they allow you to transfer points. Someone probably needs to call the WDFW on this one.