Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 08:49:35 AM
Post by: Huntbear on April 17, 2011, 09:01:07 AM
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
Post by: KillBilly on April 17, 2011, 09:01:57 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
+2
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 09:02:31 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:03:42 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid::yeah:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
AMEN! Funny thing is, Ford has the overall most reliable and best selling trucks since they started making trucks. If I had to chose another rig other than Ford it would be a Dodge, never a Chebby.
Post by: runamuk on April 17, 2011, 09:07:45 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
BITE ME Ford boy :chuckle: :chuckle:
sorry
I should be more lady like
but I happen to like chevy trucks and those tests were kinda fun to watch....
Post by: Huntbear on April 17, 2011, 09:09:29 AM
right, skewed, by an accredited non-affiliated agency, looks pretty straight forward and clear to me, sore loser :)
Says it was paid for by Chevy... they are not going to get results they did not want!
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:10:25 AM
Post by: Huntbear on April 17, 2011, 09:11:00 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
BITE ME Ford boy :chuckle: :chuckle:
sorry
I should be more lady like
but I happen to like chevy trucks and those tests were kinda fun to watch....
I like older Chevys,,,,, and where would you like to be bit at????? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 09:12:07 AM
Post by: jharstad on April 17, 2011, 09:15:14 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:15:48 AM
Post by: AMBUSH OUTFITTERS BC on April 17, 2011, 09:17:12 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 17, 2011, 09:18:57 AM
Try to find as many 68-72 ford trucks on the road as Chevies then! You will not! (I know , before obamama motors)
That would be the claim since the F-100 became the F-150 in 1977, or '78 to escape the emission laws that passenger vehicles had to adhere to.
Anyone here remember who claimed to have a better idea? There are instances that they did not!
Post by: runamuk on April 17, 2011, 09:21:41 AM
"Fact" is only your opinion.
this is a true statement there aren't many real "facts" the concept of fact is illusory at best. We will all die, that is a fact the rest is conjecture and opinion based on what we currently know or believe we know ;)
I know I like Chevy's and the boys that drive them :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: KillBilly on April 17, 2011, 09:22:36 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:24:56 AM
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 09:25:44 AM
"Fact" is only your opinion.
this is a true statement there aren't many real "facts" the concept of fact is illusory at best. We will all die, that is a fact the rest is conjecture and opinion based on what we currently know or believe we know ;)
I know I like Chevy's and the boys that drive them :chuckle: :chuckle:
well said, same here, except for the "boys that drive them" part lol, but I am a guy who drives one...lol
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:26:39 AM
Ford Quality costs more so people bought the cheaper Chevies right off the shelf.... :chuckle:Example the chevy 350 motor, you can practically buy a total rebuild kit at Kmart.
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 09:26:51 AM
Ford Quality costs more so people bought the cheaper Chevies right off the shelf.... :chuckle:
did you watch any of the videos? lol
Post by: 270Shooter on April 17, 2011, 09:27:03 AM
THis whole Ford vs Chebby vs Dodge vs Toyota vs whoever is purely asinine! All of the major manufacturers make good quality trucks, period! The biases between brands are purely personal and usually have very little to do with actual facts. Some years Ford has a better rig and some years someone else. Get over yourselves, drive what you like, if you don't like what I drive, shut the hell up!amen
but fords are still better :rolleyes:
Post by: KillBilly on April 17, 2011, 09:29:05 AM
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 09:29:40 AM
Ford Quality costs more so people bought the cheaper Chevies right off the shelf.... :chuckle:Example the chevy 350 motor, you can practically buy a total rebuild kit at Kmart.
so your last comment was they're all good, stop bickering, and your next comment, that the chevy 350 sucks, lol, that's pretty contradicting don't you think lol. the 350 is an amazing enging, I happen to have one in my truck, gets 20mpg, goes to v-4 mode when you don't need the v-8 and, hauls 9500lbs with ease, and runs smoother than a babies bottom, love ite man.
Post by: KillBilly on April 17, 2011, 09:32:22 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
BITE ME Ford boy :chuckle: :chuckle:
sorry
I should be more lady like
but I happen to like chevy trucks and those tests were kinda fun to watch....
Mark the spot girlfriend
Post by: xd2005 on April 17, 2011, 09:34:39 AM
I kid...I really don't have a horse in this race, I just like stirring the pot. :chuckle:
Post by: KillBilly on April 17, 2011, 09:41:24 AM
Truth be told I have owned a bunch of Chevy trucks. My current Chevy truck has 12.5" sicks on the back and a 383 Stroker in it.
When I traded my Suburban (that got stuck in the snow) in for a F250 Superduty with the V10 in it, I thought I had been set free. It ranked way over my last divorce and I won't buy another Chevy truck. As far as a functional work truck it is awesome plus it has interior room and comfort that I never experienced in a Chevy. I won't go back unless one of you die-hard chevy guys wants to give me a new one to prove me wrong.
Post by: jharstad on April 17, 2011, 09:42:32 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 09:47:01 AM
Post by: jharstad on April 17, 2011, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: Hunterman on April 17, 2011, 09:57:57 AM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: jyerxa on April 17, 2011, 10:09:51 AM
Post by: fair-chase on April 17, 2011, 10:30:53 AM
This will probably be 12 pages long by the end of the day. :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on April 17, 2011, 11:07:54 AM
FORD all the way, "GETSUM"
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 11:09:15 AM
383, lighten up, I never said they were crap I said you could get parts for them practically anywhere, nothing contracticory there. Must have hit too close to home. i think it all boils down to what you grew up with as far as preferene and bias. My Family only owned Fords and had great luck with them so that is what I like. Growing up my Dad had a 69 Shelby GT 500, a 65 Shelby GT 350 and a 72 Boss 302 Mustang and F-25 pick ups. I wound up with the Mustang and got a 69 Torino Fastback with a 390 Cobra Jet. There was never even a thought of buying a chebby in our household. I had a 87 Bronco that was a gutless pile of crap but would go anywhere. I get a kick out of these guys that say that they would rather push one rig than drive another. I guess that when you break down or get in a wreck you will turn down a ride or a tow from me in my big bad Ford? Stupid. You sound like a bunch of idiot kids.
lol, sorry if i sounded hurt, but ya, of course i'm biased, as are most chevy and ford enthusiasts. I had a similar but opposite run of vehicles. my first truck was a '57 chevy stepside with a straight six, then a 87 silverado witha 400, then my '89 trans am GTA with a 383 stroker(hence the screen name) then a toyota, which i liked a lot actually, kinda miss it. then three silverados in a row, 2001, 2007, now the 2009, loved them all, and wouldn't be caught dead in a ford, mostly due to family ties, but also due to the fact that they're smoother riding, and have the best powertrains out there (bracing for the bashing by you ford boys) i.e. duramax/allison, and are the longest lasting trucks on the road, but if I do break down I will ask for a tow from a ford owner, I'll just request that he keeps it between us...lol
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 11:11:15 AM
I haven't seen a CHEVY or a DODGE yet that I haven't had to pull out of the snow during Elk Season.
FORD all the way, "GETSUM"
I could say the same for fords and dodges, not that anybodies contesting dodges around here lol, it's all perspective, I pull at least 5 people out a winter, if not more, and a good share of those are fords
Post by: Stickerbush on April 17, 2011, 11:13:20 AM
THis whole Ford vs Chebby vs Dodge vs Toyota vs whoever is purely asinine! All of the major manufacturers make good quality trucks, period! The biases between brands are purely personal and usually have very little to do with actual facts. Some years Ford has a better rig and some years someone else. Get over yourselves, drive what you like, if you don't like what I drive, shut the hell up!
wow, well said. to each his own and so forth. And the whole Government motors criticism is a little ridiculous in my opinion. Those are still American citizens producing American made cars, it wouldn't deter me from buying a GM car at all.
Post by: runamuk on April 17, 2011, 11:17:00 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
BITE ME Ford boy :chuckle: :chuckle:
sorry
I should be more lady like
but I happen to like chevy trucks and those tests were kinda fun to watch....
Mark the spot girlfriend
oh there be some cherries marking the......where was I going.......sigh.....its always such a short walk into the gutter :P :chuckle:
And since I call all men ....boys....... not much of a difference right there..... :chuckle:
the final straw in my marriage involved a ford lets just say I am not and never will be a fan...unless its an old mustang now those aren't really fords......just sayin ;)
Post by: Stickerbush on April 17, 2011, 11:17:10 AM
Ford, Ford,Ford, all the way. I WILL Never own anything but a Ford...There will be nothing parked in my drive way but FORDS...Well, ok until my wife made me buy her a Jeep, my daughters bought a Suburu, and a Blazer :yike: but I still drive a FORD :IBCOOL:
Hunterman(Tony)
haha ;)
Post by: hoytem on April 17, 2011, 11:26:36 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid:In the end, even $19.4 billion in federal help wasn't enough to keep the nation's largest automaker out of bankruptcy. The government will pour another $30 billion into GM to fund operations during its reorganization.
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
Post by: rtspring on April 17, 2011, 11:33:30 AM
Id walk my ass to town first
Post by: NWBREW on April 17, 2011, 11:35:30 AM
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 11:44:03 AM
you ain't never gonna have to pull me out with no piece of *censored* CHEVY :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
Id walk my ass to town first
that's a cute truck, let me know when your stuck and need pulled out :hello:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmtruckclub.com%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D15911%26amp%3Bd%3D1268369443&hash=91ad9c28cd316be88ef4711e6ae6d778e84bde34)
Post by: FC on April 17, 2011, 11:47:51 AM
Post by: rtspring on April 17, 2011, 11:49:58 AM
you get those tires at walmart? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 11:55:24 AM
383
you get those tires at walmart? :chuckle: :chuckle:
hell if they sold nitto terra grapplers there i would, i love walmart! lol
Post by: rtspring on April 17, 2011, 11:59:28 AM
at 500.00 bucks a piece i wish Wal Mart had them :chuckle:
Post by: demontang on April 17, 2011, 12:02:18 PM
Anyone here ever notice that most mechanics drive a Chevy or Toyota with a few Dodge full-size trucks? Ever wonder why?
Lol well I was a body tech and mostmechanics I've know drive chevy or toy because they are cheap to fix. I know out of all the shop rigs we have had the chevys have had the most time in shop. Our dodge was one of the best but it was a 98. The fords seem to be the stable for us for money on resale and not being in the shop so far.
Post by: jyerxa on April 17, 2011, 12:04:48 PM
Anyone here ever notice that most mechanics drive a Chevy or Toyota with a few Dodge full-size trucks? Ever wonder why?
Well yeah..................! Sheesh, you need to be a mechanic to drive one more than ten miles. Ya got ta get back home ya know? :chuckle:
Post by: xd2005 on April 17, 2011, 12:10:35 PM
Anyone here ever notice that most mechanics drive a Chevy or Toyota with a few Dodge full-size trucks? Ever wonder why?
My guess is the ones that drive the Toyotas were mechanics first, those that drive the Chevy and Dodge owned the trucks first and are now mechanics :chuckle:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 17, 2011, 12:19:24 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 12:26:31 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on April 17, 2011, 01:02:42 PM
Post by: huntnnw on April 17, 2011, 03:36:52 PM
Post by: chongo469 on April 17, 2011, 03:54:28 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 17, 2011, 03:55:28 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 04:14:30 PM
Post by: Gutpile on April 17, 2011, 04:19:26 PM
Now I know you anti Powerstroke guys don't know what the hell you are talking about. Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against whatever you have. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator. 21 mpg running around and never less than 18 mpg towing 7 tons of hay. Hell, I hate Bayliner boats, Suzuki anything, Ibanez guitars, and Ruger firearms but that does not mean that they are totally crap products and that anyone who owns one is an idiot. It is very apparent that some of you need to grow up and join the adult world.
WHAT!?!?!?! BLASPHAMY!!!!!
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 17, 2011, 04:30:53 PM
I don't care who makes it but, I want an electric 1ton pickup
Well...I think as long as Subaru doesn't make it I'd want one too. At least fot the warm months. Batteries suck in cold weather. They do make really large hybrid trucks for hauling stuff. But seem to not want to make battery or hybrid in the 1 ton truck range. My guess it that anything that goes off road wouldn't mix well with hybrid.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on April 17, 2011, 04:44:03 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 17, 2011, 05:04:07 PM
Now I know you anti Powerstroke guys don't know what the hell you are talking about. Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against whatever you have. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator. 21 mpg running around and never less than 18 mpg towing 7 tons of hay. Hell, I hate Bayliner boats, Suzuki anything, Ibanez guitars, and Ruger firearms but that does not mean that they are totally crap products and that anyone who owns one is an idiot. It is very apparent that some of you need to grow up and join the adult world.
WHAT!?!?!?! BLASPHAMY!!!!!
get rope...we are stringing him up :chuckle: :chuckle: I was fine with the whole truck debate but bashing ruger......my word whats next :dunno: blondes :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Laughing hysterically at this entire thread...good entertainment
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 17, 2011, 05:08:44 PM
Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against just about anything. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator.OK
We'll start at the on ramp at Vantage. You can take the lead down the on ramp.
I'll have had time to hit the john at Ryegrass before you even get parked.
I know. I used to own a '97 with a PSD.
:chuckle:
Post by: 383man on April 17, 2011, 05:27:02 PM
Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against just about anything. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator.OK
We'll start at the on ramp at Vantage. You can take the lead down the on ramp.
I'll have had time to hit the john at Ryegrass before you even get parked.
I know. I used to own a '97 with a PSD.
:chuckle:
what do you drive now?
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 06:17:06 PM
Run, I put it up to make a point. This whole bashing people for what they own is as stupid as second grade playground banter. If these companies really put out inferior/crap products they would be out of business. Once again it is ALL about personal preference. By the way, I am a blonde so I won't be bashing them. And I do own a LOT of Ford stock and it has done very well for me over the past couple of years so I guess they are not as bad as some would lead you to believe. :IBCOOL:Now I know you anti Powerstroke guys don't know what the hell you are talking about. Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against whatever you have. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator. 21 mpg running around and never less than 18 mpg towing 7 tons of hay. Hell, I hate Bayliner boats, Suzuki anything, Ibanez guitars, and Ruger firearms but that does not mean that they are totally crap products and that anyone who owns one is an idiot. It is very apparent that some of you need to grow up and join the adult world.
WHAT!?!?!?! BLASPHAMY!!!!!
get rope...we are stringing him up :chuckle: :chuckle: I was fine with the whole truck debate but bashing ruger......my word whats next :dunno: blondes :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Laughing hysterically at this entire thread...good entertainment
Post by: runamuk on April 17, 2011, 06:37:58 PM
Run, I put it up to make a point. This whole bashing people for what they own is as stupid as second grade playground banter. If these companies really put out inferior/crap products they would be out of business. Once again it is ALL about personal preference. By the way, I am a blonde so I won't be bashing them. And I do own a LOT of Ford stock and it has done very well for me over the past couple of years so I guess they are not as bad as some would lead you to believe. :IBCOOL:Now I know you anti Powerstroke guys don't know what the hell you are talking about. Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against whatever you have. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator. 21 mpg running around and never less than 18 mpg towing 7 tons of hay. Hell, I hate Bayliner boats, Suzuki anything, Ibanez guitars, and Ruger firearms but that does not mean that they are totally crap products and that anyone who owns one is an idiot. It is very apparent that some of you need to grow up and join the adult world.
WHAT!?!?!?! BLASPHAMY!!!!!
get rope...we are stringing him up :chuckle: :chuckle: I was fine with the whole truck debate but bashing ruger......my word whats next :dunno: blondes :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Laughing hysterically at this entire thread...good entertainment
....I was teasing I wasnt trying to bash anyone .... I find these preference debates kinda humorous how some people get all riled up..... just picture a world where everyone drove the exact same vehicle :yike: yuck
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 17, 2011, 06:41:23 PM
A Dodge.Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against just about anything. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator.OK
We'll start at the on ramp at Vantage. You can take the lead down the on ramp.
I'll have had time to hit the john at Ryegrass before you even get parked.
I know. I used to own a '97 with a PSD.
:chuckle:
what do you drive now?
Post by: NW-GSP on April 17, 2011, 09:42:43 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 17, 2011, 11:20:38 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 17, 2011, 11:33:42 PM
Only if I am towing 7 ton of hay, otherwise, you might be surprised, just sayin'. You gotta hit the john at Ryegrass because you have a girlish bladder or to let that Dodge cool off before it blows up?Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against just about anything. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator.OK
We'll start at the on ramp at Vantage. You can take the lead down the on ramp.
I'll have had time to hit the john at Ryegrass before you even get parked.
I know. I used to own a '97 with a PSD.
:chuckle:
Post by: FC on April 18, 2011, 01:20:40 AM
And I do own a LOT of Ford stock and it has done very well for me over the past couple of years so I guess they are not as bad as some would lead you to believe. :IBCOOL:
I wonder how when they have the biggest truck recall in history still going....I base my opinions on what I've had to fix as a mechanic and what just got serviced. Ford trucks in general were the most frequently repaired, I see accounts of people getting 200k and more out of a Ranger without problems and I have no clue how they manage that as all the ones I have dealt with were just a constant string of stuff being replaced as it broke or fell off the truck starting at about 100k if they were lucky.
Speaking of recalls...http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/04/consumer-confidential-ford-truck-recall-zipcar-ipo-shares-offering-stocks-post-office-mail-rates-stamps.html (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/04/consumer-confidential-ford-truck-recall-zipcar-ipo-shares-offering-stocks-post-office-mail-rates-stamps.html)
-- Ford has expanded its recall of the popular F-150 pickup truck to about 1.2 million vehicles because front-seat airbags could inflate without the vehicle being involved in a crash
Neat! I got to get me some of that action! You Ford lovers can keep 'em, you keep the parts guys and mechanics in business so I salute you for doing your part to help our economy :P
FWIW, I think Rugers suck too!
Post by: jyerxa on April 18, 2011, 03:37:04 AM
I’d root for a gawddamn Jay Hawker before I would ever root for a Husky. Go Cougars! :chuckle:
Post by: jyerxa on April 18, 2011, 04:01:42 AM
....I was teasing I wasnt trying to bash anyone .... I find these preference debates kinda humorous how some people get all riled up..... just picture a world where everyone drove the exact same vehicle :yike: yuck
Touché! ;)
Post by: rasbo on April 18, 2011, 06:01:10 AM
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 18, 2011, 08:54:34 AM
No, it has 2 turbos to keep it plenty cool. :chuckle:Only if I am towing 7 ton of hay, otherwise, you might be surprised, just sayin'. You gotta hit the john at Ryegrass because you have a girlish bladder or to let that Dodge cool off before it blows up?Some of the 6.0 or 6.1 had problems but I will put my 97 7.3 against just about anything. 200,000 miles and have only replaced a cam sensor and an alternator.OK
We'll start at the on ramp at Vantage. You can take the lead down the on ramp.
I'll have had time to hit the john at Ryegrass before you even get parked.
I know. I used to own a '97 with a PSD.
:chuckle:
Post by: combs338 on April 18, 2011, 09:26:19 AM
I like things short simple and to the point. Ford didn't bow down and take a gov bail out. Ford made a car its own employees could afford. There is a lot of history behind Henry Ford. Some mistakes along the way, but who can say they can walk on water? Ford started the autos and Ford is still American. More so than Chevy who coped out and bowed to the Feds.
:yeah:
Post by: rtspring on April 18, 2011, 09:38:29 AM
You act like CHEVY and DODGE hve never had any RECALLS? Ya right......
Oh yeah and its an airbag , Big deal, turn them off if you ask me..
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 18, 2011, 09:40:24 AM
http://youtu.be/LPkUvfL8T1I (http://youtu.be/LPkUvfL8T1I):chuckle:
Post by: wsucowboy on April 18, 2011, 09:53:15 AM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid::yeah: I've had both Chevy or Ford and I would take a Ford over a Chevy any day of the week :twocents:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
Post by: MDGrand on April 18, 2011, 09:59:29 AM
That was a very good series of videos. If anyone forgot, Ford put out a series of videos comparing all three as well: http://www.ford.com/2011superduty/?p=headtohead&video=headtohead-fuel-efficiency-rematch&INTCMP=fv-fv-a2b02c03d000411e17f11g01h17j11k09m3n0p20110301 (http://www.ford.com/2011superduty/?p=headtohead&video=headtohead-fuel-efficiency-rematch&INTCMP=fv-fv-a2b02c03d000411e17f11g01h17j11k09m3n0p20110301)
I think Chevy did a real good job showing their answer in some areas. As a Ford guy, I have to admit, I did not like seeing some of those things in regards to performance and frame tests.. I have to hand it to Chevy on that one. Surprising, given the difference in power and torque, all I can figure is the gross weight of the Ford must be significantly more.
I have decided that even given my allegiance to Ford, next time I am in the market for a HD truck I will compare the big three and see if I can be swayed. I actually love my 6.0 2006 F250.. with a few mods and some new head studs and tuner.. I have a tough SOB of a truck and it has done everything I have asked it to do. You really can not go wrong with either of the HD trucks from the big 3, I think it it is the best vehicles that each one does vs. their passenger vehicle.
I will say this though...
All that talk about Chevy being longer lasting is BS... They were just easier to fix/build and cheaper because the base of all their engines has not changed in decades.
Where they lost and continue to loose the sales war is in two areas:
1. Looks.. lets face it, they have made the least appealing truck of all 3 for many years now. Dont get me wrong bow tie fans... I have seem some pretty bad ass looking rigs.. but usually they are modified a bit and tricked out.. off the floor to the main public they are not as attractive.
2. new innovation... Chevy has stuck with the same technology and has just started to branch out due to being a branch of GM and being subsidized to what the GMC line needs as well. They should just cancel Chevy trucks all together and build GMC or the other way around.. there is no need for two as they are the exact same vehicle.
3. they are not any more reliable than the rest....
Bottom line.. Its fun to see this arguement sometimes because usually it comes down to how you were raised. I was raised a Ford guy.. so thats what I do.. but the honest guy in me does see some significant differences sometimes and it is REALLY good for the consumer like us because it forces our favorite brand to step up.
On a end note.. it is interesting here how Chevy just completely ignored Dodge.. Dodge just upped their torque and HP too in the cummins to 800 and I can tell you from some die hard Dodge fans, that from an aftermarket perspective, the Cummins once tuned is a hard core long lasting and crazy powerful motor... NOW.. if they could only build a good transmission to go along with those good looks and bad ass motor ;)
Post by: FC on April 18, 2011, 11:15:23 AM
FC,
You act like CHEVY and DODGE hve never had any RECALLS? Ya right......
Oh yeah and its an airbag , Big deal, turn them off if you ask me..
No I never said that but they are in the midst of the largest recall of trucks (for several reasons) of any of them. I have a pretty unbiased view as I really don't care for any of the newer trucks but I have worked on and driven ALL of them. That gives pretty good experience for what they really are, how often they break and what it usually is.
FWIW I don't like Americanized airbags myself but the entire restraint system and seat is built around them, without them a lot more people would be getting hurt in crashes with newer vehicles.
MDGrand, Chevy trucks and engines have changed rapidly over the last 20 years so I'm not sure what you are referring to there, in previous years they ran the same old engines for a long time because they worked and were good motors! Ford, Dodge and Toyota did the same thing and for the same reason. None of them changed these designs out of the kindness of their hearts, they did it to meet emission standards!
Post by: MDGrand on April 18, 2011, 11:28:33 AM
For Chevy's I am referring to the base gas power plant of the 350 and suspension components in their basic 1500 trucks..
Sure.. things have changed over the course of the last 20 years, fuel injection and variable cam timing, suspension and the like. However, much has stayed the same. All I am saying is in comparison from Ford to Chevy however, Ford has been more proactive and leader precisely because they are not as big as GM and have divested into many brands.
Regardless of the recalls (which all have had) Ford continues to out sell Chevy for a reason.. 30+ years is not a coincidence.. if they made a very comparable truck at an identical price point, they history would be much more split.. but they dont. Chevy has either been a bit behind in technology or they are not priced as competitively. Today.. that is a much different story.. All three come to the table ready to play.. and that is GREAT for us because competition is great for the marketplace and more importantly the consumer/wallet.
Like I said before though.. when I go visit the showrooms again in a few years, I will give all 3 a fair shot.. I really dont see how you can go wrong with any of the three.
:twocents:
Post by: grandpawrichard on April 18, 2011, 03:32:12 PM
" I would rather have a sister in a whore house than a brother that drives a Chevy!"
:o :rolleyes: ;) :) :chuckle:
Dick
Post by: alanger on April 18, 2011, 03:46:39 PM
Post by: 383man on April 18, 2011, 05:42:53 PM
As a life long Ford guy, I have to be humble here and go ahead and give GM/Chevy some props here...
That was a very good series of videos. If anyone forgot, Ford put out a series of videos comparing all three as well: http://www.ford.com/2011superduty/?p=headtohead&video=headtohead-fuel-efficiency-rematch&INTCMP=fv-fv-a2b02c03d000411e17f11g01h17j11k09m3n0p20110301 (http://www.ford.com/2011superduty/?p=headtohead&video=headtohead-fuel-efficiency-rematch&INTCMP=fv-fv-a2b02c03d000411e17f11g01h17j11k09m3n0p20110301)
I think Chevy did a real good job showing their answer in some areas. As a Ford guy, I have to admit, I did not like seeing some of those things in regards to performance and frame tests.. I have to hand it to Chevy on that one. Surprising, given the difference in power and torque, all I can figure is the gross weight of the Ford must be significantly more.
I have decided that even given my allegiance to Ford, next time I am in the market for a HD truck I will compare the big three and see if I can be swayed. I actually love my 6.0 2006 F250.. with a few mods and some new head studs and tuner.. I have a tough SOB of a truck and it has done everything I have asked it to do. You really can not go wrong with either of the HD trucks from the big 3, I think it it is the best vehicles that each one does vs. their passenger vehicle.
I will say this though...
All that talk about Chevy being longer lasting is BS... They were just easier to fix/build and cheaper because the base of all their engines has not changed in decades.
Where they lost and continue to loose the sales war is in two areas:
1. Looks.. lets face it, they have made the least appealing truck of all 3 for many years now. Dont get me wrong bow tie fans... I have seem some pretty bad ass looking rigs.. but usually they are modified a bit and tricked out.. off the floor to the main public they are not as attractive.
2. new innovation... Chevy has stuck with the same technology and has just started to branch out due to being a branch of GM and being subsidized to what the GMC line needs as well. They should just cancel Chevy trucks all together and build GMC or the other way around.. there is no need for two as they are the exact same vehicle.
3. they are not any more reliable than the rest....
Bottom line.. Its fun to see this arguement sometimes because usually it comes down to how you were raised. I was raised a Ford guy.. so thats what I do.. but the honest guy in me does see some significant differences sometimes and it is REALLY good for the consumer like us because it forces our favorite brand to step up.
On a end note.. it is interesting here how Chevy just completely ignored Dodge.. Dodge just upped their torque and HP too in the cummins to 800 and I can tell you from some die hard Dodge fans, that from an aftermarket perspective, the Cummins once tuned is a hard core long lasting and crazy powerful motor... NOW.. if they could only build a good transmission to go along with those good looks and bad ass motor ;)
very well said, I was so excited to go to your link and check out what they had tested, but it was just fuel economy, i was hoping they had tested the same kind of stuff that the chevy guys did, no such luck, oh well.
Post by: 383man on April 18, 2011, 05:55:11 PM
well the 2011 f-150 will out-sell any chevy any day. and they have already proven that. the new eco boost is a top pick and the dealers are having a hard time keeping them on the lot. so this is for all the new chevy fans :ass:
mcdonalds will outsell every other burger joint in the world, does that mean they make the best burger? or the cheapest? just sayin...lol There's a reason why silverado is motor trend truck of the year, and it's not because it's cheap :)
Post by: jyerxa on April 18, 2011, 06:01:35 PM
Like I always tell my Son-in-laws:
" I would rather have a sister in a whore house than a brother that drives a Chevy!"
:o :rolleyes: ;) :) :chuckle:
Dick
I was really going to let this go and never comment here again. But this just cracks me up. And boy isn't it the truth. :chuckle:
Post by: 383man on April 18, 2011, 06:04:18 PM
Post by: 383man on April 18, 2011, 06:23:15 PM
Post by: dscubame on April 18, 2011, 06:24:36 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 18, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
well the 2011 f-150 will out-sell any chevy any day. and they have already proven that. the new eco boost is a top pick and the dealers are having a hard time keeping them on the lot. so this is for all the new chevy fans :ass:
ummm for the record dont you drive a red chevy :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: chongo469 on April 18, 2011, 06:43:45 PM
well the 2011 f-150 will out-sell any chevy any day. and they have already proven that. the new eco boost is a top pick and the dealers are having a hard time keeping them on the lot. so this is for all the new chevy fans :ass:
ummm for the record dont you drive a red chevy :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Thats just because he wants something that he can drive....I know a lot of Harley guys who will buy nothing but Harley, and those Harleys sit in the shop most of the time.....nice to look at through the window of the service shop.......... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: chongo469 on April 18, 2011, 06:45:43 PM
Post by: FC on April 19, 2011, 01:28:46 AM
FC...
For Chevy's I am referring to the base gas power plant of the 350 and suspension components in their basic 1500 trucks..
Oh, that motor got it's first big upgrade in about...87? The old "350" has been out of service for a long time now, the vortec 350 was a completely redesigned engine from the crank up based around the same bore and stroke of the old motor.
The more recent 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0l motors have nothing in common with the older design you are referring to. Very little of the era of trucks you refer to remains in recent offerings. Ford's 4.6l by contrast is celebrating it's 20 year anniversary currently, they still put that boat anchor in the half tons too!
The 5.3l is a great motor for a half ton truck with pretty good compromise between economy and power. The 6.0l is a great one to drive with very linear power delivery but you better need the extra power to justify the drop in mileage. The only non-Ford gas engine I would say to steer clear of currently is the Toyota 5.7l, they look likely to have a lot of future reliability problems.
To be perfectly honest I am not sure where you came up with the theory that GM trucks are still basically antiques, other than the emblem on the grill they really don't have much in common with 10 year previous trucks. Ford by contrast DOES! They still have all the ridiculous problems that they have had since their inception too! One thing you did have right is that the GM's are much easier to work on and as such they cost less to have fixed!
You sound relatively open minded, you should really do some honest research and take a hard look around when shopping for your next truck. Look at ten year resale values across the board, you might get a surprise or two!
FWIW I wouldn't buy ANY current diesel powered truck, the poor things are so choked by current emission requirements that you lose most of the benefits that were previously gained by going with a diesel.
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 07:12:49 AM
I have done my research and don't need a lesson. This is one of those topics where one must agree to disagree.
GM has hung on to the 350 (5.7), 327(5.3), etc for decades and decades.. "redesigning from the crank up in not an accurate term".. its just the addition of fuel injection, cam timiing, etc that all maufacturers have done along with probably some better materials.
I do have an open mind when it comes to when I will look for my next truck, however I probably will go back to Ford like most as the sales figures prove.. most prefer Ford over Chevy and despite the rederick of Chevy owners claims, they continue to outsell. and you don't outsell for that long if your product really worse than your competition.
GM is getting there though and could overtake Ford if they dropped a few more lines and stopped making ugly cars and trucks.
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 19, 2011, 07:30:39 AM
Post by: FWilliams on April 19, 2011, 07:31:02 AM
Post by: runamuk on April 19, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on April 19, 2011, 08:22:44 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 19, 2011, 08:25:24 AM
Post by: longknife on April 19, 2011, 08:46:50 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 19, 2011, 08:57:33 AM
Post by: xd2005 on April 19, 2011, 09:01:09 AM
like a rockBy "like a rock" do you mean a large, stationary object that cannot move without the use of a large piece of machinery? :chuckle:
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 09:01:28 AM
"Heartbreak, of todays chebby trucks" I will keep my FORD!
Me too! ... Best selling trucks FOR A REASON.
Post by: longknife on April 19, 2011, 09:04:20 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on April 19, 2011, 09:21:51 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 19, 2011, 09:26:39 AM
Boy you ford boys are touchy :chuckle:Pot calling the kettle black. :chuckle:
Post by: Woodchuck on April 19, 2011, 09:27:51 AM
Post by: chongo469 on April 19, 2011, 09:39:28 AM
"Heartbreak, of todays chebby trucks" I will keep my FORD!
Me too! ... Best selling trucks FOR A REASON.
Hey, I know that office depot....Isnt that a auto parts store your parked in front of?.... :chuckle: :chuckle: Typical Ford
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 09:52:13 AM
typical error by a Chevy fan.
Post by: chongo469 on April 19, 2011, 10:14:26 AM
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 19, 2011, 10:17:04 AM
LOL, actually more of a dodge fan....To be really honest, I drive 2 fords...a 1995 F-150 4x4 and a 1995 Ford explorer....I bought them because they were real cheap and big P.O S's... I figure why not....I enjoy working on cars and what are the odds both will be broke down at the same time.....LOLI'd have to say the odds are astronomical. :chuckle:
Post by: wsucowboy on April 19, 2011, 10:20:29 AM
Post by: longknife on April 19, 2011, 10:23:51 AM
LOL, actually more of a dodge fan....To be really honest, I drive 2 fords...a 1995 F-150 4x4 and a 1995 Ford explorer....I bought them because they were real cheap and big P.O S's... I figure why not....I enjoy working on cars and what are the odds both will be broke down at the same time.....LOL
Sure post up the worst Ford has ever made...lol Buy a REAL SUV! jk
I was a chevy fan when i was a kid, because my dad had one. 79 3/4ton 400sb. BIGGEST HUNK O *censored* EVER. About every 5 months a blown set of heads.
I learned off my dads mistakes, and stayed away from chebbys.
Post by: skynyr on April 19, 2011, 10:31:49 AM
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 10:44:53 AM
LOL, actually more of a dodge fan....To be really honest, I drive 2 fords...a 1995 F-150 4x4 and a 1995 Ford explorer....I bought them because they were real cheap and big P.O S's... I figure why not....I enjoy working on cars and what are the odds both will be broke down at the same time.....LOL
Really?
You must like working on Trany's... A LOT!
Post by: wsucowboy on April 19, 2011, 10:46:36 AM
:yeah:LOL, actually more of a dodge fan....To be really honest, I drive 2 fords...a 1995 F-150 4x4 and a 1995 Ford explorer....I bought them because they were real cheap and big P.O S's... I figure why not....I enjoy working on cars and what are the odds both will be broke down at the same time.....LOL
Really?
You must like working on Trany's... A LOT!
Post by: 383man on April 19, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Post by: ribka on April 19, 2011, 11:46:10 AM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 11:48:03 AM
Go look at my first response.. I actually gave the Chevy folks some props for the video.. it was a good response to Ford's set of videos they put out.
Comparing Ford to McDonalds is cool with me if you want to do it.. McDonalds is giant powerhouse in the fast food business.. no one really comes close to them. They have done a great job over the years beating BK.. which I will compare to Chevy.. No matter what BK/ Chevy puts out they can't overcome the loyalty folks have becuase McDonalds and Ford has done a great job of maintaining it.
The Motortrend comment though is a laugh.. who cares about that! Geese.. if you really look into that, its basically whomever pays the most that gets the trophy. That changes hands like baseball cards.
SALES.. determines all.
Post by: mebco09 on April 19, 2011, 11:49:03 AM
Sorry, FC...
I have done my research and don't need a lesson. This is one of those topics where one must agree to disagree.
GM has hung on to the 350 (5.7), 327(5.3), etc for decades and decades.. "redesigning from the crank up in not an accurate term".. its just the addition of fuel injection, cam timiing, etc that all maufacturers have done along with probably some better materials.
The 5.3 is not a "327". the only thing is shares with the classic 327 is the displacement (sort-of).
Personally, I had been a chevy fan for my whole life. I recall telling my Dad that I would never drive a Ford. My first truck was a K5 blazer, I have a 99 silverado, a 05 silverado 3500, my wife has driven 2 Yukons. I also own a few old chevrolet cars for cruising. HOWEVER...
I now drive an F350 and my wife drives an Expedition. Why? They did not take any bail-out money. I will NEVER buy another socialist-mobile Chevrolet, or Dodge. Especially when the companies were siezed and given to the Unions. I would have more respect for them if they would have declared bankruptcy and reorganized. Ford did the right thing and mortgaged the blue oval. Although I do like the new Dodge commercials.....
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 11:52:52 AM
Are you really debating 0.025?
I will have to agree with you about your bail out comment though. :)
Post by: FC on April 19, 2011, 12:06:04 PM
Sorry, FC...
I have done my research and don't need a lesson. This is one of those topics where one must agree to disagree.
GM has hung on to the 350 (5.7), 327(5.3), etc for decades and decades.. "redesigning from the crank up in not an accurate term".. its just the addition of fuel injection, cam timiing, etc that all maufacturers have done along with probably some better materials.
Not trying to be nasty here but if you had the faintest clue what you were talking about this would sound credible but to anyone who DOES know what they are talking about it doesn't!
Not one single part aside from (maybe) some odd accessory bolts will fit a "350" from a 4.8, 5.3 or 6.0l engine. They are a completely different design and share nothing in common.
The only reason Ford has kept using the same junk parts is because people keep buying them..."Best selling" because they are the cheapest! Let's see a show of hands: who thinks the Dodge Caravan is a good vehicle? Who here has owned more than two of them? I have had an amazing number of people tell me that they were good rigs, they were on their third one and apparently someone had brainwashed them to think that you were SUPPOSED to perform major repairs at least once a year...
Post by: mebco09 on April 19, 2011, 12:11:32 PM
Are you familiar with your metric to inch conversions?
Are you really debating 0.025?
I will have to agree with you about your bail out comment though. :)
No, not debating .025", and metric to inch conversions have nothing to do with your statement. What you are mixing and matching is different designs of motors. The 5.3 is a LS series motor that happens to displace about 327". When you refer to a motor as a "327", the image is that of a cast-block, Gen 1 or 2 Chevy small block, carbureated (or mechanical fuel-injection), single overhead cam, points distributor, 4 inch bore, 3.25 inch stroke etc. etc. (if memory serves me, the 5.3 bore is smaller and the stroke is longer than a gen 2. 327). Same goes for a "350". In other words, try putting any part from a 5.3 or 5.7 into a "327" or "350". Totally different motors. Just sayin'
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 12:19:34 PM
All of this is semantics..
Yes, the 350 is different than the 5.7... it has grown and evolved over time.. but the same overall displacement albeit with new cams, injectors, etc.. have evolved..
Get mad all you want.. call the rest brainwashed.. it really doesnt matter.
Its a Ford vs. Chevy convo.. it goes nowhere.. Chevy owners think they are smarter, Ford still outsells Chevy.. nothing changes.
I still plan on giving all 3 a shot when I go Truck Hunting in a few years.
Post by: longknife on April 19, 2011, 12:26:57 PM
but thats all they have going for them!
:beatdeadhorse: reminds me of my father working on a chebby.
Post by: beau6hunter on April 19, 2011, 12:27:44 PM
Post by: mebco09 on April 19, 2011, 12:48:10 PM
The problem that I have with the newer Chevys (other than the bailout thing) is that the extensive use of plastics makes them feel cheesy. The huge chrome on the sides of the bumpers that is butt ugly is a pretty flimsy piece of metal. The door lock inserts that have been the same forever have a tendency to fall out (both my 99 and 05 fall out every so often. It just seems like by 60k miles, all the parts that you use often (radio buttons, door panels, door handles, trim pieces around the windows etc.) are broken on the Chevrolets. Ford just seems to be sturdier and have better fit and finish. (and about $7500 more...)
Post by: MDGrand on April 19, 2011, 12:52:42 PM
Ok, all semantic arguments aside, heres an objective comment:
The problem that I have with the newer Chevys (other than the bailout thing) is that the extensive use of plastics makes them feel cheesy. The huge chrome on the sides of the bumpers that is butt ugly is a pretty flimsy piece of metal. The door lock inserts that have been the same forever have a tendency to fall out (both my 99 and 05 fall out every so often. It just seems like by 60k miles, all the parts that you use often (radio buttons, door panels, door handles, trim pieces around the windows etc.) are broken on the Chevrolets. Ford just seems to be sturdier and have better fit and finish. (and about $7500 more...)
AGREED :)
$7500 more though.. they are slightly higher.. but that is what makes car negotiating so fun :)
Post by: mebco09 on April 19, 2011, 01:01:53 PM
Post by: grandpawrichard on April 19, 2011, 05:54:42 PM
Like I always tell my Son-in-laws:
" I would rather have a sister in a whore house than a brother that drives a Chevy!"
:o :rolleyes: ;) :) :chuckle:
Dick
I was really going to let this go and never comment here again. But this just cracks me up. And boy isn't it the truth. :chuckle:
Glad you liked it! :) :D
I say Drive what you like and don't worry what others think!
I used to be a dedicated Ford Owner, then I bought a Dodge Dakota and put over 200,000 miles on it without a single problem with it. So I bought another Dakota and I plan to have it until I can't drive any more!
Dick
Post by: 383man on April 19, 2011, 09:18:16 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
Post by: FC on April 19, 2011, 09:46:30 PM
Yes, the 350 is different than the 5.7... it has grown and evolved over time.. but the same overall displacement albeit with new cams, injectors, etc.. have evolved..
Ummmm no, semantics has nothing to do with it. The biggest similarities between the current gen GM V8's and the old is that they are both made from metal and they are both internal combustion engines but after they diverge in their design so drastically that nothing from one motor fits the other.
The same overall displacement? Would you prefer a 20 liter? 5-6 liter displacement engines generally hit the hp to mpg sweet spot to work well in half ton trucks and full sized sedans. Next you are going to tell us that the Ford 4.6l is almost the same thing as the GM 4.8l :stirthepot:
Post by: tritt007 on April 19, 2011, 10:10:58 PM
year in the snow when the ultra crappy push button 4wd crapped out, by a ... well a PORSCHE!!!!!! a
freakin porsche a porsche cayenne turbo, tottaly lost my respect for chevys that day, i drive a jeep and
when my jeep breaks i drive a 89 f250, pretty much dont trust chevys, i will however say the 69 4x4 3/4 ton gmc
in my driveway with a sb 350 will rape most any truck when it is running, the damn thing clears 37's with no
lift its an animal geared low as heck , but because its a chevy it oubviously doesent run.
Post by: Gringo31 on April 19, 2011, 10:54:35 PM
Anyone who knows me knows I am not the easiest on trucks. About the only time my truck see asphalt is when I go and get fuel. I hope to get 20k on a set of tires. I've had a few trucks in my life from Chevy, Ford, Dodge and even a Nissan Titan. Bang for buck.....IMHO I've been best served by a Dodge. Ford would come second, then chevy and the Titan was toast after about 35K miles. I couldn't tell you about 250K miles on a vehicle, yet I've seen a few of each all make it there.
I will say screw Gov't Motors. My advice would be the best product for the price is a Dodge.
Post by: MDGrand on April 20, 2011, 10:44:24 AM
Yes, the 350 is different than the 5.7... it has grown and evolved over time.. but the same overall displacement albeit with new cams, injectors, etc.. have evolved..
Ummmm no, semantics has nothing to do with it. The biggest similarities between the current gen GM V8's and the old is that they are both made from metal and they are both internal combustion engines but after they diverge in their design so drastically that nothing from one motor fits the other.
The same overall displacement? Would you prefer a 20 liter? 5-6 liter displacement engines generally hit the hp to mpg sweet spot to work well in half ton trucks and full sized sedans. Next you are going to tell us that the Ford 4.6l is almost the same thing as the GM 4.8l :stirthepot:
Yes it is semantics. By definition, this all comes down to interpretation and ones word selection to denote the problem. You use your words, I use mine.
Your understanding of the 350 from the 5.7, 327 to 5.3 is the same as mine.. However what I am refering to is an evolution. It is easy to see how they would take a base power plant and redesign it adding modern technologies resulting in a new overal displacement in the fractions of an inch result and convert it to the new hip metric conversion. Therefore, I am entiteld to call it the 350 as the evolution denotes it and it just so happens to come out at almost an identical displacement. I already did concede that new engine technology as been implemented in a "redesign" of the same base internal combustion powerplant.
All that being said, I will leave the expertise up to you as you seem to be a ASE mechanic and chief engineer of GM.. Or are you? ;)
Post by: chongo469 on April 20, 2011, 11:13:45 AM
Post by: MDGrand on April 20, 2011, 11:20:20 AM
Comming from the guy who has a Gyno quote on his tag.. your "ignorant" comment has no base. Glad I got set strait by a random expert on the internet who I don't even know. Can't tell you how much I will laying awake at night mulling over that one. :chuckle:
Post by: FC on April 20, 2011, 11:51:46 AM
All that being said, I will leave the expertise up to you as you seem to be a ASE mechanic .. Or are you? ;)
Why yes I am!
Your argument makes little sense. Current gen GM motors have as much in common with current gen Ford, Dodge etc as they do with the old 350. By your logic one could say that current Ford truck motors are still really just old 221's with a few extra gadgets attached to them.
The 221 BTW was introduced in 1932, Ford's first flathead V8. Oh yeah and the Wright brothers basically nailed the whole airplane thing too, Boeing likes to take credit for that 777 but it's really just a copy of the Wright brothers old plane with a few gadgets attached . :chuckle:
Post by: chongo469 on April 20, 2011, 12:05:41 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 20, 2011, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: yakimarcher on April 20, 2011, 12:47:42 PM
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 12:54:04 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
Post by: longknife on April 20, 2011, 01:29:53 PM
Post by: Ironhead on April 20, 2011, 06:27:16 PM
The USS Nimitz got hung up on a sandbar near the Everett boat launch. The Admiral, who shall remain nameless called me
knowing I had a Ford Powerstroke to come down and give them a hand. How could I refuse the US Navy, I pulled down to the launch and a smaller Navy boat dropped one of those itty bitty anchor chains over my hitch. It didn't take long and I had the boat off the bar. True story.............Really 8)
Post by: Curly on April 20, 2011, 06:36:21 PM
Post by: rtspring on April 20, 2011, 06:37:21 PM
If its headed up somehere to go hunting I am sure all of us would get in and shut the H*** up...
JUST SAYIN. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: jjhunter on April 20, 2011, 06:38:38 PM
Note: I am not disclaiming the ability of Ironhead's powerstroke to yank the NIMITZ off of a sand bar.... :chuckle:
Post by: 383man on April 20, 2011, 07:32:39 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o#ws)
you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 08:06:35 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o#ws)
you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...
A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?
Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!
How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.
Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.
Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.
GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory union dues and gives their dues in the form of political contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.
Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.
How sportsmen can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.
http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/ (http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/)
You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected
I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas
Post by: longknife on April 20, 2011, 08:12:30 PM
Post by: 383man on April 20, 2011, 08:24:55 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o#ws)
you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...
A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?
Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!
How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.
Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.
Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.
GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory union dues and gives their dues in the form of political contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.
Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.
How sportsmen can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.
http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/ (http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/)
You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected
I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas
I believe were done here, I am a conservative, I do not like obama, nor do I want him re-elected, but do I hate gm because they are unionized? no, by that logic you hate all teachers because they are unionized, i guess you hate nurses too, get a grip on reality man. and the volt gets 50mpg on straight gas, but the first 40miles is all electric, so really, on a average day, you consume no gas, no I do not own one, but I do think the technology is amazing. your arguments are typical I hate unions banter, I'm not a fan either, but GM isn't benifiting from being a union, if you knew how unions worked you'd know that it cost companies more money when their employees go union, just stop getting it confused, you can get all political if you want, but none of that means anything about the vehicles themselves.
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 08:30:34 PM
Really sad what happened to GM
Used to make the quintessential American muscle car.
Now they make golf carts. They lost their identity and soul :twocents:
The decline of America......
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 08:43:32 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o#ws)
you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...
A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?
Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!
How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.
Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.
Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.
GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory union dues and gives their dues in the form of political contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.
Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.
How sportsmen can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.
http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/ (http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/)
You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected
I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas
I believe were done here, I am a conservative, I do not like obama, nor do I want him re-elected, but do I hate gm because they are unionized? no, by that logic you hate all teachers because they are unionized, i guess you hate nurses too, get a grip on reality man. and the volt gets 50mpg on straight gas, but the first 40miles is all electric, so really, on a average day, you consume no gas, no I do not own one, but I do think the technology is amazing. your arguments are typical I hate unions banter, I'm not a fan either, but GM isn't benifiting from being a union, if you knew how unions worked you'd know that it cost companies more money when their employees go union, just stop getting it confused, you can get all political if you want, but none of that means anything about the vehicles themselves.
I never sad I hated unions. I hate the fact all unions have been co-opted by the Dem Party and are now corrupt. How can one FORCE a free working person to give to a corrupt political party in the US?
How is that possible?
As soon as you buy a Volt to go hunting get back to me. Where does the electricity from the Volt come from. Magical Obama unicorns?
You have to plug it in and electricity comes from mostly coal power now in the US.
No one is buying the VolT except he Govt ( Obama) and GE which receives a huge tax credit from us the tax payers to buy them. WHat a scam by GM and Obama!!!
In five years the batteries in the Volt are useless.
"One of the dilemmas facing electric vehicles today is what to do with all the batteries once they’ve been used up. The lithium-ion batteries used in EVs like the 2011 Chevy Volt can become highly toxic as they degrade and can produce more pollution just sitting in a landfill than the worst gas-guzzling car sold today"
Obama 2012!!!!!.
Post by: 383man on April 20, 2011, 09:07:43 PM
Just to be clear, I still haven't heard anybody contest the fact that the Chevy trucks in the test videos, have better braking, faster acceleration, firmer frames, less bumper sag, etc... than the fords? just personal preferance talk really...I love how people say "ford doesn't sell the most trucks every year for no reason", no, there's a reason, same reason mcdonalds sells there cheap food more than anybody else, cheap prices. There is however a reason why Silverado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year! :spank_butt:
Motor Trend ratings lost all credibility with that rating. They rated the Chevy Volt number one too.Of course it had nothing to do with the Obama administration spending billions of our tax dollars bailing them out. The GM auto unions in retrun donated millions of union dues to the Dem party and Obama. GM uses our money to bulid plants in Mexico and China. What a racket!
No thanks
Every GM product I have owned has been unreliable.
Just had a 2010 chevy work truck crap out with less than 15,000 miles. Transmission is shot. Replaced under warranty
All my Toyotas have ran over 200,000 miles with only oil changes and brakes replaced. ZERO problems. All bulit here in the US with non Dem labor
See your confused, you are saying that because our tax dollars went into restructuring GM, the Chevy Volt isn't an amazing vehicle, and shouldn't be motor trend car of the year? I could be wrong, but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I dought company financing goes into how they choose their winners. and your completely missing the point on the mcdonalds comment, or avoiding it anyways, it's not because they are quality, it's because they're cheap, if you think that mcdonalds makes a quality product, jokes on you. And the fact that you think GM used our money to build plants in mexico and china is cute at best, definately laughable. GM doesn't have factories in china first off, second off, all the parts they build in mexico and send up for assembly have been being built there since way before the bailout, just like ford does, please be informed instead of making up points.
So a tax payer funded bail out ( theft) of our money to give to corporations ( Gm) that in trun give them money ( forced union dues) to the corrupt Dem party is a good thing for me as a consumer.
Sound slike money laundering to me.
They needed a bail -out because they built a crappy product and could not compete on a fiar playing field.
The Price Of A Bailout? Every GM Car Sold Will Cost Taxpayers $12,000 Through 2011
www.ntu.org (http://www.ntu.org)
The American taxpayer has put up $12,200 for every General Motors vehicle sold through the beginning of 2011, and $7,600 for every Chrysler vehicle sold as well, according to a new report issued by the 362,000-member National Taxpayers Union (NTU).
The report, The Auto Bailout - A Taxpayer Quagmire, authored by NTU Adjunct Scholar Thomas D. Hopkins, Professor of Economics at the University of Rochester, does the math on what the government bailout of the auto industry - including General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - actually means to American taxpayers, including how much each taxpayer has contributed to the auto industry since December 2008 and how much each vehicle is costing us.
"Every time someone in your neighborhood drives home in a shiny new Chevy Silverado, remember that it cost American taxpayers more than $12,000," said Pete Sepp, NTU Vice President for Policy and Communications. "Between this and GM's plan to payback their bailout debt with other taxpayer funds, I wonder if all those Americans without work right now could think of any better ways to spend that money. This is a play out of the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme playbook, and would be the equivalent of paying your Master Card bill with your Visa."
The study found that the average American taxpaying family has invested roughly $800 in the auto bailouts so far. Moreover, the study found, the government support poured into General Motors, Chrysler, and GMAC - the financing subsidiary that supports sales at both - now stands at a towering $78.9 billion. Given that figure, and an estimate of how many vehicles GM and Chrysler will sell through the end of 2010, the study finds that each vehicle one of the bailed-out companies sells costs taxpayers $10,700.
Finally, breaking down the costs by company, the study reports that every Chrysler vehicle sold costs taxpayers $7,600, and every GM vehicle sold costs taxpayers $12,200.
The research is based upon a November study released by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), entitled "Continued Stewardship Needed as Treasury Develops Strategies for Monitoring and Divesting Financial Interests in Chrysler and GM," a follow-up report on the "Troubled Asset Relief Program," as well as statements and reports released from the U.S. Treasury.
Additional Findings Include:
GMAC receives government guarantees not available to most private firms. Coincidentally, these are the same private firms that are forced to compete with GMAC's taxpayer-assisted bank, Ally Bank. These guarantees save GMAC about $500 million annually in interest costs.
During the first ten months of 2009, GM and Chrysler sales fell further than other major auto producers, down 33.4 percent and 38.9 percent, respectively.
While the prospect of repayment of GM and Chrysler loans might be expected, after bankruptcy the vast majority of the bailout funds are no longer legal obligations of the newly-structured GM and Chrysler.
If Americans are to believe public officials' claims that the government will eventually reprivatize the auto industry, the necessity of a thoughtful exit plan is essential. However, at this time no such plan exists, making it likely that the Treasury will not recover its investment.
"[T]he bailout has created moral hazard problems, inadvertently handicapping the progress of stronger, non-subsidized producers," Professor Hopkins concluded. "The problems extend beyond just the auto industry, as favored status for one financial company and its bank necessarily complicates prospects for non-subsidized rivals. The time has come to stop such bailouts, and in an orderly way, to seek at least some recovery for taxpayers."
You sir, are a wonderful example of a straw man, see The "Straw Man" Fallacy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5vzCmURh7o#ws)
you did not refute any of my points, all you stated was what everyone already knows, that GM got into trouble, took some help from us, and are working hard at paying it back, the government only owns 26% of GM now down from 61% before, due to them selling back the shares that were bought for the bailout. the remaining 26% will be sold back in the next year when share prices rise enough as to not lose money on them. that being said, what does any of this have to do with our original conversation about the fact that silverado and volt trucks and cars are the motor trend trucks/cars of the year? please re-read my previous post, and respond to the actual conversation, or not at all, it's silly to argue with someone about apples and all their talking about is oranges...
A Chevy Volt, car of the year, gets less gas milage than my 1981 VW Rabbit and it costs over $40,000. What a scam. Did you buy one?
Why was GM bailed out? Because the UAW give sthe Dems million sin union dues each year. Plain and simple truth!!!
How a guy can go on a fishing and hunting web site and brag about their GM product is beyond my comprehension.
Still waiting for my check from GM. And they need to pay pay me interest for the tax payer loan too.
Interesting that all of the stockholders of GM stock were screwed in this deal and lost tens of millions of dollars.
GM vehicles are manufacture by the corrupt UAW union. The UAW forces their members to pay mandatory union dues and gives their dues in the form of political contributions to the Dem Party. Millions of dollars a year.
Now many in the Dem Party want to outlaw firearms and ban hunting. They are the same ones behind the introduction of wolves so they can shut down hunting. No deer elk moose- no hunting.
How sportsmen can convince themselves this a good thing is beyond my comprehension.
http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/ (http://visiontoamerica.org/21/obama-to-sell-gm-stock-at-huge-loss-to-taxpayers/)
You must just luv Obumbles and want him re-elected
I'll stick with non-union American made Toyotas
I believe were done here, I am a conservative, I do not like obama, nor do I want him re-elected, but do I hate gm because they are unionized? no, by that logic you hate all teachers because they are unionized, i guess you hate nurses too, get a grip on reality man. and the volt gets 50mpg on straight gas, but the first 40miles is all electric, so really, on a average day, you consume no gas, no I do not own one, but I do think the technology is amazing. your arguments are typical I hate unions banter, I'm not a fan either, but GM isn't benifiting from being a union, if you knew how unions worked you'd know that it cost companies more money when their employees go union, just stop getting it confused, you can get all political if you want, but none of that means anything about the vehicles themselves.
I never sad I hated unions. I hate the fact all unions have been co-opted by the Dem Party and are now corrupt. How can one FORCE a free working person to give to a corrupt political party in the US?
How is that possible?
As soon as you buy a Volt to go hunting get back to me. Where does the electricity from the Volt come from. Magical Obama unicorns?
You have to plug it in and electricity comes from mostly coal power now in the US.
No one is buying the VolT except he Govt ( Obama) and GE which receives a huge tax credit from us the tax payers to buy them. WHat a scam by GM and Obama!!!
In five years the batteries in the Volt are useless.
"One of the dilemmas facing electric vehicles today is what to do with all the batteries once they’ve been used up. The lithium-ion batteries used in EVs like the 2011 Chevy Volt can become highly toxic as they degrade and can produce more pollution just sitting in a landfill than the worst gas-guzzling car sold today"
Obama 2012!!!!!.
I drive my silverado when I hunt/fish/camp/otherwise, but as a commuter car, a volt would be great for gas mileage. I never said that it was "eco-friendly" or "green energy" a couple of terms i'm sure your used to muttering. I am not caught up in the debakle that is global warming, just that it is extremely inovative, and very fuel efficient. it is true that on the east coast most of our energy comes from coal, but out here in the PNW, most of our energy comes from hydro, wind, nuclear, and combined cycle natural gas plants like the one that Im an operator at, and I can tell you from experience, one gas plant like mine that produces enough energy to power seattle polutes less than your toyota does, where will the batteries go? I don't know, maybe recycle them? what a weird and wacky idea right, i'm sure your response to this write up will, as in the past 10, not have a single answer to what i wrote, but 10 different things to talk about that don't matter either, see straw man video i posted for you to better illistrate how I feel about these conversations.
Post by: FC on April 20, 2011, 09:07:58 PM
You have to plug it in and electricity comes from mostly coal power now in the US.
No one is buying the VolT except he Govt ( Obama) and GE which receives a huge tax credit from us the tax payers to buy them. WHat a scam by GM and Obama!!!
In five years the batteries in the Volt are useless.
"One of the dilemmas facing electric vehicles today is what to do with all the batteries once they’ve been used up. The lithium-ion batteries used in EVs like the 2011 Chevy Volt can become highly toxic as they degrade and can produce more pollution just sitting in a landfill than the worst gas-guzzling car sold today"
Obama 2012!!!!!.
This is actually true although completely different than the original argument :P , it's also my primary argument against hybrid/electric/hydrogen powered cars. Small diesel engine powered cars and light trucks would be far better in all ways than any of those.
EDIT: Do you guys know how to edit posts so you don't take up 13 pages with a single post? My scrolling finger is feelin' the burn!
Post by: TheSkyBuster on April 20, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Chebby and Ford will be the start of the second civil war .... :rolleyes: GO FORD!If that happens, I'm sure Dodge will be getting in on the action to. :chuckle:
Dodge Challenger Freedom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0IfV6TtCyw#ws)
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
You have to plug it in and electricity comes from mostly coal power now in the US.
No one is buying the VolT except he Govt ( Obama) and GE which receives a huge tax credit from us the tax payers to buy them. WHat a scam by GM and Obama!!!
In five years the batteries in the Volt are useless.
"One of the dilemmas facing electric vehicles today is what to do with all the batteries once they’ve been used up. The lithium-ion batteries used in EVs like the 2011 Chevy Volt can become highly toxic as they degrade and can produce more pollution just sitting in a landfill than the worst gas-guzzling car sold today"
Obama 2012!!!!!.
This is actually true although completely different than the original argument :P , it's also my primary argument against hybrid/electric/hydrogen powered cars. Small diesel engine powered cars and light trucks would be far better in all ways than any of those.
EDIT: Do you guys know how to edit posts so you don't take up 13 pages with a single post? My scrolling finger is feelin' the burn!
Excellent point FC.
The "green cars" are a big scam.
Post by: Cap.Silver on April 20, 2011, 09:31:54 PM
which some of you may find interesting and it has lot to do with our future ,not the future of Obama or the next president .The future generations are gonna pay dearly for our inability to do something soon .
Talking about cars let's take a look at Euro model of Lexus CT200H with its hybrid 1.8 gas engine and mileage of 57miles/galon - or the IS 200d with 2.2 turbo diesel engine (don't know the mileage) .http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-lexus-ct-200h-hybrid-hatch-goes-on.html (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-lexus-ct-200h-hybrid-hatch-goes-on.html)
I'm personally ready to test drive the new Nissan Van http://www.nissancommercialvehicles.com/?dcp=ppn.55539819.&dcc=0.231392702- (http://www.nissancommercialvehicles.com/?dcp=ppn.55539819.&dcc=0.231392702-) let's see if the high top version and pickup like front will outsell FORD Vans (depending on cost ,engine size etc. of course) Next few years will tell us if the American auto industry will survive or not ....till then we don't know
Post by: ribka on April 20, 2011, 09:45:38 PM
right, skewed, by an accredited non-affiliated agency, looks pretty straight forward and clear to me, sore loser :)
Based upon personal experience GM builds inferior products
The accredited non-affiliated agencies no longer exist. If they did they could explain why my work vehicle, a 2010 Chevy, tranny blew up at less than 20,000 miles. Another 2009 Chevy Impala at work just blew an engine with less than 40,000 miles. Wow Chevy's are great because Obama tells us so.
I worked in a GM plant one Summer in 1981 and I saw a lot of GM workers showing up drunk or high for work. Could not fire union employees. They purposely put parts on backwards so the vehicles rolling off the assembly lines would break down and have to be worked on again. Instant over time for union employees with no concern for public safety.
All of our wind power in Washington goes to Kalifornia. A friend lost 30% of her property value because they stuck noisy innefficient a wind turbine right next to her property. She protested them being built next to her house along with all others in Kittitas County But Dem Gov Gregoire over ruled her. If wind power is so wonderful why doesn't Kalifornia build them there?
I live on wind and solar power and I can tell you from first hand experience it is not the future.
Last Toyota over 200,000 miles and not one cent of tax dollars stolen from me. Toyota gives no money to Obama. GM gives millions of dollars to Obama. Sorry will not buy GM
Post by: 383man on April 20, 2011, 10:07:49 PM
right, skewed, by an accredited non-affiliated agency, looks pretty straight forward and clear to me, sore loser :)
Based upon personal experience GM builds inferior products
The accredited non-affiliated agencies no longer exist. If they did they could explain why my work vehicle, a 2010 Chevy, tranny blew up at less than 20,000 miles. Another 2009 Chevy Impala at work just blew an engine with less than 40,000 miles. Wow Chevy's are great because Obama tells us so.
I worked in a GM plant one Summer in 1981 and I saw a lot of GM workers showing up drunk or high for work. Could not fire union employees. They purposely put parts on backwards so the vehicles rolling off the assembly lines would break down and have to be worked on again. Instant over time for union employees with no concern for public safety.
All of our wind power in Washington goes to Kalifornia. A friend lost 30% of her property value because they stuck noisy innefficient a wind turbine right next to her property. She protested them being built next to her house along with all others in Kittitas County But Dem Gov Gregoire over ruled her. If wind power is so wonderful why doesn't Kalifornia build them there?
I live on wind and solar power and I can tell you from first hand experience it is not the future.
Last Toyota over 200,000 miles and not one cent of tax dollars stolen from me. Toyota gives no money to Obama. GM gives millions of dollars to Obama. Sorry will not buy GM
alrighty, on to the next topics i guess, so, you believe that chevy's are crap because you know of a couple that had faulty parts? my brother had a 2005 cummins,bought brand new, blew one injector after another until at 1,000 miles it blew the engine, and he traded it in on a duramax, smoother that silk. does that mean that all cummins are turds, no, but by your assumption it does, there will be lemons, it happens. if you can tell me about any auto manufacurer that hasn't had something i.e. engine, tranny, blow up early from time to time, you will be making it up, because they don't exist, it happens, that's what warranties are for.
Next, I agree, wind power is in no way the future, it is unreliable, takes up too much space, and is extremely anoying, but you are wrong, our wind power goes onto the 500kv line that spans from canada to mexico, as does our coal power, hydro, nuclear and combined cycle plants. it is used all up and down the west coast, so that we have a sustainable reliable grid, so by your logic, the wind turbines in california, with a "k" apparently, produce power for washington. I work in this industry, and know a thing or two about it, your wrong.
Post by: Armadillo on April 20, 2011, 10:29:52 PM
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk= (http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=)
Post by: 383man on April 20, 2011, 10:59:22 PM
Go on craigslist...type in diesel 4x4 in the owner section.....lo and behold..there tons of used fords for sale locally compared to chevs! Maybe those guys see the light and wanna unload the scrap? you be the judge
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk= (http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=)
hahaha, there were a ton, must be a coencidence though...lol
Post by: ribka on April 21, 2011, 07:29:10 AM
No they really make a wonderful vehicle. I saw a commercial on TV that told me so. And purchasing a Chevy is a vote for Obama. Can't beat that
Obama 2012. Maybe he can get gas up to $8 a gallon his second term and put more wolves into Washington
Amazing guys on here support him
Post by: mebco09 on April 21, 2011, 11:06:01 AM
Go on craigslist...type in diesel 4x4 in the owner section.....lo and behold..there tons of used fords for sale locally compared to chevs! Maybe those guys see the light and wanna unload the scrap? you be the judge
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk= (http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=)
That is because Ford made way more diesels than Chevy. Delete the diesel part and just put in 4X4 and a year and it will come up with a pretty equal number. Ford did not have a good gas motor until this model year. No I am not trying to start stuff with V10 owners.
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 21, 2011, 11:16:35 AM
Why delete the diesel part and skew the numbers. Afterall the thread began about a diesel truck test.Go on craigslist...type in diesel 4x4 in the owner section.....lo and behold..there tons of used fords for sale locally compared to chevs! Maybe those guys see the light and wanna unload the scrap? you be the judge
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk= (http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=)
That is because Ford made way more diesels than Chevy. Delete the diesel part and just put in 4X4 and a year and it will come up with a pretty equal number. Ford did not have a good gas motor until this model year. No I am not trying to start stuff with V10 owners.
And besides, the bulk of the Ford's in the CL search have the 6.0 leaker power plant, which speaks for itself as being the biggest POS Ford chose to use. Smart sellers, dump it before it eats itself from the inside out.
Just doing my part to keep the thread going. :chuckle:
Post by: Caseyd on April 21, 2011, 11:44:54 AM
Parallel turbo chargers on a gas engine..Isn't that for cars. Didn't most parallel twin turbo charged car manufactures change configurations because of problems. Expensive maintenance :dunno:
Just doing my part to keep the thread going. :chuckle:
Post by: tndrft on April 21, 2011, 04:29:01 PM
Post by: KillBilly on April 21, 2011, 04:37:02 PM
Post by: FC on April 21, 2011, 04:38:18 PM
All this crap has made me love my Ford more than ever. I am starting that all you gloating chevy owners are jealous. It is quite an honor for you to pick on Fords explicitly, it just shows how great they really are
It isn't picking on them when you actually have had to regularly fix the clunkers as a living :P
I drive a Toyota 8)
Post by: Caseyd on April 21, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
Post by: FC on April 21, 2011, 04:41:48 PM
Post by: longknife on April 21, 2011, 05:28:46 PM
Quote
I drive a ToyotaQuote
Thats real American! Loved watching a toyota car flip from a stuck gas peddle in front of me. :rolleyes:
Post by: Gutpile on April 21, 2011, 05:32:34 PM
Post by: FC on April 21, 2011, 08:38:01 PM
QuoteI drive a ToyotaQuote
Thats real American! Loved watching a toyota car flip from a stuck gas peddle in front of me. :rolleyes:
It was built here in the USA? Do you know where Toyota, Dodge, Chevy and Ford build their's or who owns each? I'll give you a hint, Dodge is the most American made of the bunch, I'm not sure if Toyota comes in 2nd or 3rd out of that list though...
Post by: mebco09 on April 21, 2011, 08:54:51 PM
"Just one month before Mulally declared, “We do not face a near-term liquidity issue, and we are not seeking short-term financial assistance from the government,” Ford Motor Credit had borrowed nearly $4 billion from the Fed’s Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF). And just two weeks after this remark, Ford Motor Credit borrowed an additional $3 billion from the CPFF. In all, Ford borrowed $7 billion between October 27, 2008 and June 17, 2009."
So what. Companies borrow money all the time. The only strings attached to the Ford loans was that they pay them back with interest. No different than any other loan, it was just from the Fed rather than B of A.
What was different about the GM bailout was that instead of a real bankruptcy, the Obama administration decided that they would fund/'lend' the continued operations of the company for the benefit of their chosen few, namely the Unions. They chose the winners and losers, rather than letting the bankruptcy court decide. The stockholders were most likely toast in either scenario, but the bondholders got roasted to save the union pensions. They went a step farther and then gave ownership through stock to the unions themselves. I won't buy their cars no matter how good or cheap they are.
Post by: frostman on April 21, 2011, 09:55:25 PM
GM was obviously going to cease to exist because they were poorly managed and putting out an inferior product due to the fact that they were controlled by the union mobsters. This is not good for GM and certainly not good for America. obama will fail. GM will fail. America must not.
It is very foolish for people to support this failed company and this incompetent man that fooled people into voting for him. It is very sad that Americans allowed this to happen. We can not continue to reward failure in this country.
I do not think that these foolish obama supporters (chevy owners) fully understand how strong the Ford Motor Company is right now. They are internationally successfull in a very *censored*ty global economy. GM and chevy are an international joke, like America is right now under our appeaser-in- chief.
On a cold night you can hear a chevy rusting!!!!!
Post by: ribka on April 21, 2011, 10:24:44 PM
A Chevy owner is a Obama supporter
Obama wants to ban all firearms ownership
Obama wants to ban all hunting
GM ( Chevy) has robbe dthe American tax payers of billions of dollars
How can somenoe buy a GM product?
Post by: Armadillo on April 21, 2011, 10:27:12 PM
The unions are in control of this country right now.
Yeah the Unions are made up of people like you and me who bust their butts to earn a decent wage and vote.. Since when was it bad to let the people stand up and say NO I will not subject me and my family to an unacceptable quality of life? Im not in a union by the way I just dont see why people have a problem with them. Unions keep people from being screwed over by big business. If corporate America had its way, we'd all be working minimum wage.. Lazy union workers are a myth. Why is it lazy to not be subjected to a harder work environment, isnt it preferable? Powerless workers are ignorant workers
Post by: 383man on April 21, 2011, 11:33:27 PM
The unions are in control of this country right now. They are pulling the strings of obama's communist regime and most of the state govt's as well.
GM was obviously going to cease to exist because they were poorly managed and putting out an inferior product due to the fact that they were controlled by the union mobsters. This is not good for GM and certainly not good for America. obama will fail. GM will fail. America must not.
It is very foolish for people to support this failed company and this incompetent man that fooled people into voting for him. It is very sad that Americans allowed this to happen. We can not continue to reward failure in this country.
I do not think that these foolish obama supporters (chevy owners) fully understand how strong the Ford Motor Company is right now. They are internationally successfull in a very *censored*ty global economy. GM and chevy are an international joke, like America is right now under our appeaser-in- chief.
On a cold night you can hear a chevy rusting!!!!!
I didn't want to quote everyone in the last three comments and write three responses, so I'll just pick one and knows its towards all o fyou.
A)GM did not require a bailout because they had an inferior product, your making up history. if you remember correctly, GM, CHRYSLER, AND FORD, all were hit huge with the recession. the downturn in the economy caused people to stop buying new cars and save their money, I will give credit to ford as they saw this coming, stopped investing in new technology, stopped borrowing for new ventures, shrunk in size, closed factories early, and huddled down. GM and Chrysler failed to see it coming, kept investing, kept expanding, and when the recession came, they all, all three, Chrysler, GM, and Ford got hit hard, very hard, the only reason why ford held on by a thread is because they responded early. to say that chevy puts out a inferior product and thats why they needed bailout, is bogus.
B)Union Mobsters do not run GM-GM is ran by executives that are in no way affiliated with the unions, the lower level employees, just like with ford, are unionized, which helps them bargain with the execs for higher pay. do I like unions? no, do i think they are somhow in charge of companies and how they are run? no, they might run obama, but they do not govern companies.
C) The fact that you call me an obama supporter because I'm a chevy owner is about as insulting as it gets, get real. I voted mccain, I am a conservative, and I believe that allowing GM and chrystler to fail would have meant hundreds of thousands of hard working americans wouldn't have been able to provide for their families, just so guys like you can stand on their high horse and say you wouldn't take a loan from the government if your business was failing due to a recession.
Wake up and get real people, you guys that say GM is so evil for taking a hand out? they didn't take a handout! they are paying every red cent back, and I don't know if you noticed, but they help feed our economy, and have done so for some 100 years, look how fast you turn your back on them though, lame, just lame. :bash:
Post by: 383man on April 21, 2011, 11:40:14 PM
Post by: 383man on April 21, 2011, 11:56:07 PM
1999 4,163,369 1999 5,017,150
2000 4,202,820 2000 4,953,163
2001 3,971,364 2001 4,904,015
2002 3,623,709 2002 4,858,705
2003 3,483,719 2003 4,756,403
2004 3,331,676 2004 4,707,416
2005 3,153,875 2005 4,517,730
2006 2,901,090 2006 4,124,645
2007 2,507,366 2007 3,866,620
2008 1,988,376 2008 2,980,688
2009 1,620,888 2009 2,084,492
2010 1,935,462 2010 2,215,227
As you can see here, there is really no way to contest that in the last decade (the only years I could find on sales figures) there has never been a year when ford outsold GM, EVER!
Post by: PolarBear on April 22, 2011, 12:08:35 AM
Post by: rtspring on April 22, 2011, 12:10:21 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
FORD RULES ALWAYS HAS..
Post by: FC on April 22, 2011, 12:44:31 AM
383, what are you twelve? This has become beyond idiotic, seriously.
How so? There have been a lot of myths and magic talked about here and some real hard facts too, his latest contribution is very to the point and informative. He has also kept it low key even after all the political arguments entered the discussion and he was essentially called out. Sounds pretty mature to me :twocents:
Post by: 383man on April 22, 2011, 02:14:47 AM
383, what are you twelve? This has become beyond idiotic, seriously.
How so? There have been a lot of myths and magic talked about here and some real hard facts too, his latest contribution is very to the point and informative. He has also kept it low key even after all the political arguments entered the discussion and he was essentially called out. Sounds pretty mature to me :twocents:
Thanks FC, That's what I thought too :dunno:
Post by: 383man on April 22, 2011, 02:21:57 AM
383, what are you twelve? This has become beyond idiotic, seriously.
Just so you know polorbear, I love debate, it's my favorite thing to do is debate people, but I hate when people come to a debate with no more than speculation and the "who can yell louder" argument. I like to have the facts, and have fun with it, what I don't understand, is if your so upset about this topic, and if your sooooo mature and above it, why do you keep coming back to play in the sand box? you've made a few low comments on this topic already, but then come back every so often, after you hear something you don't like, to tell people how silly they are. This is a free country, and you are free to step away from this topic if your offended.
Post by: longknife on April 22, 2011, 03:27:36 AM
QuoteI drive a ToyotaQuote
Thats real American! Loved watching a toyota car flip from a stuck gas peddle in front of me. :rolleyes:
It was built here in the USA? Do you know where Toyota, Dodge, Chevy and Ford build their's or who owns each? I'll give you a hint, Dodge is the most American made of the bunch, I'm not sure if Toyota comes in 2nd or 3rd out of that list though...
Its still a jap name, like Honda. Ya, they have a full size hunk o crap now, rite along side of the Chebby!
In all honesty, NFTA screwed America, crap parts, on new rigs, that we have to get serviced/fixed, because they cant make them rite! Keep America in, America!
Post by: 383man on April 22, 2011, 05:37:01 AM
QuoteI drive a ToyotaQuote
Thats real American! Loved watching a toyota car flip from a stuck gas peddle in front of me. :rolleyes:
It was built here in the USA? Do you know where Toyota, Dodge, Chevy and Ford build their's or who owns each? I'll give you a hint, Dodge is the most American made of the bunch, I'm not sure if Toyota comes in 2nd or 3rd out of that list though...
Its still a jap name, like Honda. Ya, they have a full size hunk o crap now, rite along side of the Chebby!
In all honesty, NFTA screwed America, crap parts, on new rigs, that we have to get serviced/fixed, because they cant make them rite! Keep America in, America!
excellent point, NAFTA was supposed to help us, in theory, but screwed us by allowing the cheap labor of mexico and canada to build cars for less and sell them in our markets, forcing the big three, well chrysler had been in mexico for a lot longer, but forcing GM and Ford to move plants to mexico and canada to produce parts and vehicles for cheaper, undermining our labor forces, we still have a ton of plants in the U.S. for all three companies, but more than you might think are built in mexico and canada. the entire F-series line and the ford diesels are built in mexico, one of the three silverado plants are there (another in canada, and another in u.s.), and chrysler (dodge) has multiple plants, and more in oshawa and so on.
Post by: Armadillo on April 22, 2011, 07:27:22 AM
Post by: ribka on April 22, 2011, 07:53:08 AM
The unions are in control of this country right now. They are pulling the strings of obama's communist regime and most of the state govt's as well.
GM was obviously going to cease to exist because they were poorly managed and putting out an inferior product due to the fact that they were controlled by the union mobsters. This is not good for GM and certainly not good for America. obama will fail. GM will fail. America must not.
It is very foolish for people to support this failed company and this incompetent man that fooled people into voting for him. It is very sad that Americans allowed this to happen. We can not continue to reward failure in this country.
I do not think that these foolish obama supporters (chevy owners) fully understand how strong the Ford Motor Company is right now. They are internationally successfull in a very *censored*ty global economy. GM and chevy are an international joke, like America is right now under our appeaser-in- chief.
On a cold night you can hear a chevy rusting!!!!!
I didn't want to quote everyone in the last three comments and write three responses, so I'll just pick one and knows its towards all o fyou.
A)GM did not require a bailout because they had an inferior product, your making up history. if you remember correctly, GM, CHRYSLER, AND FORD, all were hit huge with the recession. the downturn in the economy caused people to stop buying new cars and save their money, I will give credit to ford as they saw this coming, stopped investing in new technology, stopped borrowing for new ventures, shrunk in size, closed factories early, and huddled down. GM and Chrysler failed to see it coming, kept investing, kept expanding, and when the recession came, they all, all three, Chrysler, GM, and Ford got hit hard, very hard, the only reason why ford held on by a thread is because they responded early. to say that chevy puts out a inferior product and thats why they needed bailout, is bogus.
B)Union Mobsters do not run GM-GM is ran by executives that are in no way affiliated with the unions, the lower level employees, just like with ford, are unionized, which helps them bargain with the execs for higher pay. do I like unions? no, do i think they are somhow in charge of companies and how they are run? no, they might run obama, but they do not govern companies.
C) The fact that you call me an obama supporter because I'm a chevy owner is about as insulting as it gets, get real. I voted mccain, I am a conservative, and I believe that allowing GM and chrystler to fail would have meant hundreds of thousands of hard working americans wouldn't have been able to provide for their families, just so guys like you can stand on their high horse and say you wouldn't take a loan from the government if your business was failing due to a recession.
Wake up and get real people, you guys that say GM is so evil for taking a hand out? they didn't take a handout! they are paying every red cent back, and I don't know if you noticed, but they help feed our economy, and have done so for some 100 years, look how fast you turn your back on them though, lame, just lame. :bash:
Buying a GM product you are donating money to Obama's re-election plain and simple.
I am a combat veteran and I will never forget when Obama and his DHS labeled me and fellow soldiers who returned from war as potential terrorists. I am one of those "Who clings to guns and religion"
GM started making junk starting in the late 1970's that is why they lost the market share to Honda and Toyota. Well-documented fact. What happened to GM's wonderfully built Pontiac and Oldsmobile products? If they wer ethe standar of quality why do they no longer exist?
I will not put my family in a vehicle built by drunk or high GM UAW union workers.
http://socyberty.com/issues/amazing-video-of-chrysler-uaw-workers-drinking-and-smoking-pot-1057-am/ (http://socyberty.com/issues/amazing-video-of-chrysler-uaw-workers-drinking-and-smoking-pot-1057-am/)
I'll stand by the UAW ( GM) helping Obama and other Dems re-election. I cannot as a hunter fisherman and gun owner support GM. Why should my hard earned money be taken from me to fund corrupt union pensions?
Why did my 2010 Chevy work vehicle crap out? I have driven GM products ( work vehicles) for over 20 years. Not one GM vehicle made it past 80,000 miles without major problems. Standard course of business to deadline a GM product at 80,000 at work.I have personally witnessed dozens of GM vehicles break down with major transmission and engine problems with low miles the past 20 years. I am driving a 2000 Ford now at work with 160,000 miles.
So keep buying precious Chebies and help Obama win in 2012. From 2008-2011 UAW gave an additional 20 mill to the Dems ( Obama)
2000-2008 UAW Giving: $23.7 million to Democrats. $193,540 to Republicans
The almost $24,000,000 the UAW has given to Democrats since 2000 compares with the $193,540 the union has given to Republicans.
In the 2008 presidential election, President Obama was by far the biggest recipient of UAW contributions, raking in $27,340 compared to the $10,600 given to Hillary Clinton, the No. 2 recipient of UAW money.
And so it was no surprise to the cynical Washington political class when the payback began with the Chrysler bankruptcy.
In a rigged proceeding in which the federal government disregarded bankruptcy law in favor of the political outcome it desired, the Chrysler bankruptcy laid the predicate for the much larger General Motors bankruptcy to come. Against law and precedent, the unions were moved to the front of the line when it came to who would benefit from the bankruptcy.
The Obama Treasury Department strong-armed Chrysler’s creditors into a deal in which the UAW was given 55 percent ownership of the company while Chrysler’s secured creditors – investors who would have received priority in a non-political bankruptcy proceeding – were left with just 29 cents on the dollar.
Post by: ribka on April 22, 2011, 08:09:52 AM
Drive down wages, ruin schools, bankrupt hospitals, rise in crime etc. How is GM good for our country?
From the union web site. Why do unions ( GM) want to help bring and support millions of illegal cheap labor? They brag about their work too on their own web site!!!
http://blog.aflcio.org/2010/09/28/uaw-to-withdraw-funds-from-chase-in-support-of-tobacco-workers/# (http://blog.aflcio.org/2010/09/28/uaw-to-withdraw-funds-from-chase-in-support-of-tobacco-workers/#)
Post by: Armadillo on April 22, 2011, 08:15:18 AM
As to the drunk or high union worker blurb... This is a problem that plagues all trades everywhere around this country not just the unions.
Post by: demontang on April 22, 2011, 09:01:10 AM
As for the GM/mopar buy out thing its why I wont even look at a newer one of either rig. I like my older rigs and really at a green stand point its way worse to build a (green) rig then it is to keep a older rig on the road even if it burns more gas per mile.
And the hydro electric power mostly goes to cal I have worked on almost all the dams on the columbia river and most on the snake too. Wind power is just a feel go b.s. thing cause the produce power at the wrong time of the day normal which makes the dams shut down production when the wind machines are going so the lines dont over load.
Post by: Armadillo on April 22, 2011, 09:06:08 AM
You're totally right about being cleaner by keeping an older rig on the road rather than leaving a huge carbon footprint in having a new truck that took massive amounts of energy to "build green"
Post by: FWilliams on April 22, 2011, 09:13:49 AM
Post by: 383man on April 22, 2011, 09:15:21 AM
As a chevy ( GM) purchaser you money goes to help bring in millions of more illegal aliens ( cheap Democratic voting labor) into our country.
Drive down wages, ruin schools, bankrupt hospitals, rise in crime etc. How is GM good for our country?
From the union web site. Why do unions ( GM) want to help bring and support millions of illegal cheap labor? They brag about their work too on their own web site!!!
http://blog.aflcio.org/2010/09/28/uaw-to-withdraw-funds-from-chase-in-support-of-tobacco-workers/# (http://blog.aflcio.org/2010/09/28/uaw-to-withdraw-funds-from-chase-in-support-of-tobacco-workers/#)
Well, I'll give you one thing, your posts always give me a good laugh. Your the guy at the tea party rallies that make the rest of us look bad. Making up stuff willy nilly, throwing together ramblings. The UAW (GM as you like to call it) is the same union that the workers of Ford are in. did you not know that Ford is unionized too, by the same union? I would be willing to bet you did not know that. now, for the third time, GM IS NOT UAW!!!!!!!!! GM IS IT'S OWN COMPANY, UAW REPRESENTS THE LABORERS IN THEIR PLANTS, GM HAS ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN WHETHER OR NOT THEY DO THIS OR NOT. Ok now back to normal talk, sorry for yelling. I just get tired of people spouting retoric that is completely unfounded, and just plain obnoxious. Now onto a even better topic, you believe that as a Chevy owner I am helping illegal aliens come here, you sir, are ridiculous. I looked at your link you provided, that the UAW will represent farmers in the tobacco industry, other than the fact that some illegals work at farms, I don't see your point. Unions only have the legal ability to represent legal citizens, with social security numbers, yes their are some (probably more than I'd like to think) illegals using fake ssn's, but they are slipping through, it sucks, it happens. GM and Ford have no influence on unions, sorry, it's not true. Another made up fairy tale fact you spewed, that unions own any part of GM, given to them by obama? wow, did you have a lucid dream last night and just wrote down what you saw? not true, by any stretch of the word. what I believe you were refering to is the "UAW retiree medical benifits trust", otherwise known as VEBA (Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association), it is no more than stock owned by "the laborers" themselves, held for their retirements and health care, it does not give the unions any sort of power over GM. the government still owns 26% of GM, down from 60+, no, unions don't own GM, if you can provide a link to were you heard that I'd love to read it, probably on jessie ventura's conspiracy website, right next to were the CIA blew up the twin towers. You are obviously "That guy" that will believe whatever mindless chatter someone tells you and recite it as gospel to anyone that will listen. Wake up. I hope I didn't come off as being a dick, but if I did, it happens... :bash: :bash: :bash:
P.S. Heres a few fun links for you
http://www.uawford.com/about_frameset.html (http://www.uawford.com/about_frameset.html)
http://www.uawtrust.org///Home/about/history/history/sb.cn (http://www.uawtrust.org///Home/about/history/history/sb.cn)
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 22, 2011, 09:22:58 AM
Not to mention various other forms of work covered under the UAW label. Next time you have to go the hospital are we going to ask that it specifically be one that does not employ UAW workers? How about a construction project one is involved in? No Cat or JD equipment involved? And don't be letting that Mack or Volvo truck deliver anything. How about your kids or the kids of your friends? I'll be damned if you should let them to go to a school of higher learning so they can get real smart to be successful in life while being educated by possible UAW workers. Don't forget, the next time you need a fan belt or heater hose in a pinch for that vehicle of choice we opt to drive, better make sure that we are buying that from a supply house that doesn't employ UAW workers either.
http://www.uaw.org/node/670 (http://www.uaw.org/node/670)
And that Toyota? Sure, probably assembled on US soil with US employment. But all that profit went back to the home land. I guess people would rather see their hard earned money converted to yen instead of staying on US soil even though where a large chunk of it goes to, as said, corrupt support and the Democratic party (which is kinda the same thing :chuckle:).
http://alt.mailarchive.ca/politics.economics/2010-08/1208.html (http://alt.mailarchive.ca/politics.economics/2010-08/1208.html)
Just shedding a bit of additional light on the comments made, which I do not disagree with for the most part.
Post by: runamuk on April 22, 2011, 09:30:48 AM
oh sorry overreacted my brain was about to explode so I just jumped on the made in Japan wagon :chuckle: and actually Bonneville power and agikowa industries (sp butchered) have or had an agreement and all steel used in their power came from a Japanese owned corporation ... and that giant stockholder from Japan...there presence here is a little import company in Redmond or was back in the early 90's when I temped there off and on ;)
Post by: longknife on April 22, 2011, 10:11:14 AM
Quick everyone shut off all your power right now cuz the lines it runs through are sitting on towers built with steel manufactured in Japan :yike: :yike: :yike:
oh sorry overreacted my brain was about to explode so I just jumped on the made in Japan wagon :chuckle: and actually Bonneville power and agikowa industries (sp butchered) have or had an agreement and all steel used in their power came from a Japanese owned corporation ... and that giant stockholder from Japan...there presence here is a little import company in Redmond or was back in the early 90's when I temped there off and on ;)
Thats the problem! If Americans keep the jobs, and used TOP grade materials (US stamp), we would be sufficent on our own. AGAIN!
Post by: Caseyd on April 22, 2011, 10:14:17 AM
Quick everyone shut off all your power right now cuz the lines it runs through are sitting on towers built with steel manufactured in Japan :yike: :yike: :yike:
oh sorry overreacted my brain was about to explode so I just jumped on the made in Japan wagon :chuckle: and actually Bonneville power and agikowa industries (sp butchered) have or had an agreement and all steel used in their power came from a Japanese owned corporation ... and that giant stockholder from Japan...there presence here is a little import company in Redmond or was back in the early 90's when I temped there off and on ;)
Run, what company was it? If we are thinking of the same guy, he's still around ;)
Post by: ribka on April 22, 2011, 10:18:44 AM
uh how do illegal aliens get to vote?
As to the drunk or high union worker blurb... This is a problem that plagues all trades everywhere around this country not just the unions.
Illegal aliens vote with driver's license used as an ID. Democrat Washington State just shut down a law last month that would have restricted drivers license to illegal aliens.
Millions of illegal aliens vote in elections that is why ballots are in Spanish as well as English. That is why the Dems pushed motor voter laws in every state.
That is why Dem controlled unions, including the corrupt UAW, support illegal immigration. That is why I find it funny when people say we should buy union built American cars to help the country when the opposite is the real truth.
Post by: runamuk on April 22, 2011, 10:22:38 AM
AG industries it is an offshoot of Ajikawa I think is the proper spelling...they sold model planes and other oddball items, some import some locally made, hell I punched thousands of dog tags for them (in my basement) for their little dog tag business they also had going, but mostly I think it was a base for them to conduct their more major operations of the steel industry. :dunno:Quick everyone shut off all your power right now cuz the lines it runs through are sitting on towers built with steel manufactured in Japan :yike: :yike: :yike:
oh sorry overreacted my brain was about to explode so I just jumped on the made in Japan wagon :chuckle: and actually Bonneville power and agikowa industries (sp butchered) have or had an agreement and all steel used in their power came from a Japanese owned corporation ... and that giant stockholder from Japan...there presence here is a little import company in Redmond or was back in the early 90's when I temped there off and on ;)
Run, what company was it? If we are thinking of the same guy, he's still around ;)
Post by: Alchase on April 22, 2011, 11:50:27 AM
Anyone who buys a Chevy (regardless if it is the better vehicle or not) is an Obama supporter.
Obama, by default being the head of the Democratic party
The Democrats (lead by Obama) control the UAW (man I am silly, I thought the Unions gave to the Dems for influence not the other way around)
The UAW control Chevrolet (again I though the union workers who are at every major car maker in America, worked for the management who intern works for the share holders)
The unions and by rote the Democrats are kept in power because all the illegal aliens vote Democrat (at least the ones with driver's licenses)
I new it! :yike:
No worries, they can't see me with my "new state of the art tinfoil hat" :tinfoil:
"OH, Curse you illeagle Alain UAW Democratic scum!!!" :peep:
Post by: jackmaster on April 22, 2011, 12:18:27 PM
Post by: Alchase on April 22, 2011, 12:35:43 PM
thats why i only drive toyota...... :dunno:
PSSST! Toyotas are built by the UAW as well :con:
Post by: Caseyd on April 22, 2011, 01:20:11 PM
Post by: 383man on April 22, 2011, 02:31:45 PM
Let me see if I got this straight according to this thread:
Anyone who buys a Chevy (regardless if it is the better vehicle or not) is an Obama supporter.
Obama, by default being the head of the Democratic party
The Democrats (lead by Obama) control the UAW (man I am silly, I thought the Unions gave to the Dems for influence not the other way around)
The UAW control Chevrolet (again I though the union workers who are at every major car maker in America, worked for the management who intern works for the share holders)
The unions and by rote the Democrats are kept in power because all the illegal aliens vote Democrat (at least the ones with driver's licenses)
I new it! :yike:
No worries, they can't see me with my "new state of the art tinfoil hat" :tinfoil:
"OH, Curse you illeagle Alain UAW Democratic scum!!!" :peep:
hahaha, exactly, ribka, could you supply the rest of us with either tinfoil or armadillo hats so the dems and obama can't control our minds anymore? but wait, aren't the dems and obama controlled by the aliens, who are in turn controlled by kittens? :yike:
Post by: FC on April 22, 2011, 02:51:08 PM
Post by: jackmaster on April 22, 2011, 02:55:47 PM
yes but that way i dont have to get caught up in the ford vs chevy war :'(thats why i only drive toyota...... :dunno:
PSSST! Toyotas are built by the UAW as well :con:
Post by: Caseyd on April 22, 2011, 06:10:47 PM
Almost every corporation has its hand in the cookie jar ;)
Post by: ribka on April 22, 2011, 06:19:43 PM
Let me see if I got this straight according to this thread:
Anyone who buys a Chevy (regardless if it is the better vehicle or not) is an Obama supporter.
Obama, by default being the head of the Democratic party
The Democrats (lead by Obama) control the UAW (man I am silly, I thought the Unions gave to the Dems for influence not the other way around)
The UAW control Chevrolet (again I though the union workers who are at every major car maker in America, worked for the management who intern works for the share holders)
The unions and by rote the Democrats are kept in power because all the illegal aliens vote Democrat (at least the ones with driver's licenses)
I new it! :yike:
No worries, they can't see me with my "new state of the art tinfoil hat" :tinfoil:
"OH, Curse you illeagle Alain UAW Democratic scum!!!" :peep:
I think am watching too much Glen Beck :chuckle:
Post by: mebco09 on April 22, 2011, 07:07:12 PM
I think am watching too much Glen Beck :chuckle:
Scary thing is that he is usually right. :o
Keep buying that gold.......
Post by: beau6hunter on April 22, 2011, 11:13:29 PM
Post by: ribka on April 23, 2011, 07:16:11 AM
Chevy- Like a rock :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yeh, drives like a rock
Handles like a rock
resale like a rock
Chevy stock is dropping like a rock costing American tax payers millions of their hard earned dollars
GM stock lower amid report of quick govt sale
(AFP) – 3 days ago
NEW YORK — A report that the US government plans to sell off much of its remaining stake in General Motors this year despite the firm's lackluster share price caused investors to flee the stock Tuesday.
After the Wall Street Journal reported a government sale could come within the next six months, GM's shares fell by nearly 1.3 percent to end at $29.59.
The government sale would "almost certainly" mean that US taxpayers would take a loss from a politically controversial $50 billion rescue of the auto giant in 2009, according to the paper.
The government would need to sell its roughly 500 million shares for $53 dollars each in order to break even, but GM's stock is currently hovering at a price of just under $30 per share.
At the current price, the government would lose more than $11 billion, but the Obama administration is willing to accept the loss in order to cut its last ties to the auto manufacturer, the newspaper said, citing unnamed sources.
The summer sale would make it more likely that the government could unload the remainder of its shares before the 2012 election season.
But officials said planning is still at an early stage and the Treasury Department was still considering options that would protect taxpayers while ending its stake in the company as soon as practicable.
The paper added that GM would back the sell-off because it would lift restrictions on executive pay that remain in place as long as the government is part owner.
Marking its successful emergence from bankruptcy in July 2009, GM raised $23.1 billion last November in the largest public offering in history.
It posted a 9.6 percent increase in US auto sales in March, but it has also been hit by rising gas prices and its stock has suffered since the exit last month of chief financial officer Chris Liddell, a key architect of the revival.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »
Post by: mebco09 on April 23, 2011, 12:03:39 PM
Chevy stock is dropping like a rock costing American tax payers millions of their hard earned dollars
What about the folks who bought the stock after the Government bailout and manipulated stock IPO. How does the saying go- Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.....
Post by: longknife on April 23, 2011, 12:31:53 PM
Chevy stock is dropping like a rock costing American tax payers millions of their hard earned dollars
What about the folks who bought the stock after the Government bailout and manipulated stock IPO. How does the saying go- Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.....
I kinda liked the way George bush said it,"How dose that sayin' go, fool me once, huh, shame on me, fool me twice, fool,,huh,,,shame,,,huh, ya" Man, he left this country in a great way, didnt he....
Post by: mebco09 on April 23, 2011, 12:47:26 PM
I kinda liked the way George bush said it,"How dose that sayin' go, fool me once, huh, shame on me, fool me twice, fool,,huh,,,shame,,,huh, ya" Man, he left this country in a great way, didnt he....
Right. And things are getting soooo much better now....
Post by: longknife on April 23, 2011, 12:51:33 PM
I kinda liked the way George bush said it,"How dose that sayin' go, fool me once, huh, shame on me, fool me twice, fool,,huh,,,shame,,,huh, ya" Man, he left this country in a great way, didnt he....
Right. And things are getting soooo much better now....
They are all professional thieves! Its just some are dumber than others! I was worried when i was working in Newport News as we were building the USS George Bush Sr. Always looking overhead, thought something bad was going to happen!
Post by: 383man on April 24, 2011, 12:31:27 AM
Remember
Chevy- Like a rock :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Yeh, drives like a rock
Handles like a rock
resale like a rock
Chevy stock is dropping like a rock costing American tax payers millions of their hard earned dollars
GM stock lower amid report of quick govt sale
(AFP) – 3 days ago
NEW YORK — A report that the US government plans to sell off much of its remaining stake in General Motors this year despite the firm's lackluster share price caused investors to flee the stock Tuesday.
After the Wall Street Journal reported a government sale could come within the next six months, GM's shares fell by nearly 1.3 percent to end at $29.59.
The government sale would "almost certainly" mean that US taxpayers would take a loss from a politically controversial $50 billion rescue of the auto giant in 2009, according to the paper.
The government would need to sell its roughly 500 million shares for $53 dollars each in order to break even, but GM's stock is currently hovering at a price of just under $30 per share.
At the current price, the government would lose more than $11 billion, but the Obama administration is willing to accept the loss in order to cut its last ties to the auto manufacturer, the newspaper said, citing unnamed sources.
The summer sale would make it more likely that the government could unload the remainder of its shares before the 2012 election season.
But officials said planning is still at an early stage and the Treasury Department was still considering options that would protect taxpayers while ending its stake in the company as soon as practicable.
The paper added that GM would back the sell-off because it would lift restrictions on executive pay that remain in place as long as the government is part owner.
Marking its successful emergence from bankruptcy in July 2009, GM raised $23.1 billion last November in the largest public offering in history.
It posted a 9.6 percent increase in US auto sales in March, but it has also been hit by rising gas prices and its stock has suffered since the exit last month of chief financial officer Chris Liddell, a key architect of the revival.
Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved. More »
Are you not tired of making up assumptions based on one write up by a column, one of these days if you want feel free to refute my points i made against yours earlier, It's cool if you don't though, because a failure to reply means you understand you were wrong lol. so...
A) drives like a rock/handles like a rock? really? it is a known fact that chevy has the smoother ride and handles better, ford has always been blockier and rougher. nope, propaganda...
B) Resale like a rock? you show me where chevy resale is horrible, especially compared to ford...i'll show you the graph I found, chevy and ford both have low'ish resale due to the large amounts of trucks produced every year. more propaganda, who would have thought...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm200%2F383man%2Ftruckdepreciation.jpg&hash=3b81042ebd9d562ab3a121d353077e3229ba2a14)
C) Chevy stock is doing well, 2010 was GM's biggest profit year since 2004, almost 5 billion in profits. And as you'll see by the charts below, GM is twice as large as Ford, even after all the downsizing and cutting of pontiac, hummer, etc... (just so you know fords ticker is F, don't know why, the ticker "ford" is some other random company lol.)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm200%2F383man%2Ffordandchevystocks.jpg&hash=80ac58cae563cbc386cc2b0f51a6dd1d5eb6b62e)
Post by: PA BEN on April 24, 2011, 09:02:42 AM
Post by: PolarBear on April 24, 2011, 12:40:24 PM
Post by: 383man on April 24, 2011, 01:56:15 PM
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html)
Hold on, so your not offended anymore? you sure, i don't want to upset you? lol. so 4 of the vehicles from gm are on this list, GM has over 40 vehicle models, with multiple versions of each model, Ford has less than 20, making the odds of having bad apples greater. The bottom 4 has two that I would agree with, 2 that I wouldn't, at least on a reliability standpoint. the aveo and colorado are cardboard boxes that are cheap with both price tags and parts, thats why the price tag is so cheap. the tahoe and the cadillac escillade I kinda agree with, to a point, the tahoe itself is a extremely relieble great rig, but the tahoe hybrid-the one on the worst cars list, isn't, I can't speak to its reliability, but the reason it's overpriced is the fact that it's 13k more than the standard tahoe, and only gets about 5mpg better mileage. pretty lame. the escillade is a awesome luxory vehicle, and is the only luxory SUV out there, and that is why it's overpriced. but as you could also see my silverado is no where on this list, boo yaa...lol
Post by: alanger on April 24, 2011, 02:58:26 PM
well the 2011 f-150 will out-sell any chevy any day. and they have already proven that. the new eco boost is a top pick and the dealers are having a hard time keeping them on the lot. so this is for all the new chevy fans :ass:
mcdonalds will outsell every other burger joint in the world, does that mean they make the best burger? or the cheapest? just sayin...lol There's a reason why silverado is motor trend truck of the year, and it's not because it's cheap :)
NO obama prolly elected it becuase chevrolet took money as a bail out to bail us deeper in the hole ya *censored*
Post by: alanger on April 24, 2011, 03:01:03 PM
well the 2011 f-150 will out-sell any chevy any day. and they have already proven that. the new eco boost is a top pick and the dealers are having a hard time keeping them on the lot. so this is for all the new chevy fans :ass:
ummm for the record dont you drive a red chevy :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I only drive it when i wanna beat the hell out of a truck. fords are too nice to damage.
Post by: alanger on April 24, 2011, 03:06:37 PM
Go on craigslist...type in diesel 4x4 in the owner section.....lo and behold..there tons of used fords for sale locally compared to chevs! Maybe those guys see the light and wanna unload the scrap? you be the judge
http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk= (http://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=diesel+4x4&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=)
Theyre for sale cause theyre still on the road, all the chevys have been scrapped :chuckle:
Post by: alanger on April 24, 2011, 03:07:56 PM
yer propaganda is a bunch of crap BTWhttp://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html)
Hold on, so your not offended anymore? you sure, i don't want to upset you? lol. so 4 of the vehicles from gm are on this list, GM has over 40 vehicle models, with multiple versions of each model, Ford has less than 20, making the odds of having bad apples greater. The bottom 4 has two that I would agree with, 2 that I wouldn't, at least on a reliability standpoint. the aveo and colorado are cardboard boxes that are cheap with both price tags and parts, thats why the price tag is so cheap. the tahoe and the cadillac escillade I kinda agree with, to a point, the tahoe itself is a extremely relieble great rig, but the tahoe hybrid-the one on the worst cars list, isn't, I can't speak to its reliability, but the reason it's overpriced is the fact that it's 13k more than the standard tahoe, and only gets about 5mpg better mileage. pretty lame. the escillade is a awesome luxory vehicle, and is the only luxory SUV out there, and that is why it's overpriced. but as you could also see my silverado is no where on this list, boo yaa...lol
Post by: ribka on April 24, 2011, 04:01:00 PM
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html (http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-worst-cars-on-the-road-20110418.html)
Sounds like unreliable propaganda from the American consumer :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
The magic muslim said GM is the bestest car in the world and he can be trusted!
Pay no attention that GM stole billions of dollars from the American tax payers
I found this unbiased web site too that states Chevys are great vehicles and do not breakdown
:
http://www.chevrolet.com/ (http://www.chevrolet.com/)
Post by: PolarBear on April 24, 2011, 07:38:42 PM
Post by: 383man on April 24, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
Post by: Armadillo on April 24, 2011, 10:43:43 PM
Post by: 383man on April 24, 2011, 10:49:54 PM
:bash: Im so mad right now I dont even remember what we were talking about :chuckle:
haha, now that's the spirit lol
Post by: FC on April 25, 2011, 12:14:02 AM
Ribka, stop listening to hate radio! Thanks again for the tip on the back pokerator though. :)
Alanger, really?
PA BEN, because Dodge builds the best truck hands down, no contest whatsoever and yes I am being serious, you chose wisely.
Post by: alanger on April 25, 2011, 06:56:55 AM
I have to admit to some morbid curiosity here. Polar Bear, which facts that 383 has posted were skewed or wrong? I'm assuming you have some contradicting information and I would be interested in reading it.
Ribka, stop listening to hate radio! Thanks again for the tip on the back pokerator though. :)
Alanger, really?
PA BEN, because Dodge builds the best truck hands down, no contest whatsoever and yes I am being serious, you chose wisely.
No dodge doesnt, i must say their trucks are very nice and way better than a chevy but heres the only problem i have with them their transmissions will blowout 150k miles before a fords will and the engine will shoot into space by then as well. how many dodges do you see on craigslist that have original transmission and engine not rebuilt and running in perfect condition??? not many, they are very nice rides though.
i hate to say it but i kinda like them dodge cummins from 99-02 with a manual tranny but i would have a hard time gettin one that doesnt have a new tranny iin it. cause the worst part ever is dumping money into a truck like that.
Post by: alanger on April 25, 2011, 07:06:40 AM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
thanks i appreciate that. if you wanna keep pissin people off on purpose with yer sarcasm and such u truely are one. But whatever i came into this thread sayin WTF y have people wasted 6 pages of stuff and then i threw a few in and then 8 pages later look where we are at. just a bunch of opinions have been presented. not proof that a damn chevy is better. or the bestest. whatever i dont have time in my life fer horse-*censored* like this anyway.
Post by: PolarBear on April 25, 2011, 09:58:18 AM
Post by: FC on April 25, 2011, 11:35:18 AM
No dodge doesnt, i must say their trucks are very nice and way better than a chevy but heres the only problem i have with them their transmissions will blowout 150k miles before a fords will and the engine will shoot into space by then as well. how many dodges do you see on craigslist that have original transmission and engine not rebuilt and running in perfect condition??? not many, they are very nice rides though.
i hate to say it but i kinda like them dodge cummins from 99-02 with a manual tranny but i would have a hard time gettin one that doesnt have a new tranny iin it. cause the worst part ever is dumping money into a truck like that.
Where is it that you people come up with this stuff? I've worked in a couple of transmission shops and generally speaking it was a constant string of Fords getting their transmissions rebuilt. The only Dodge trucks I saw coming in for transmission work were either heavily worked with a fair amount of miles or just flat out abused.
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 25, 2011, 01:44:46 PM
Yeah, the 47RE and the newer 48RE's are actually a pretty tough trans. But if you throw power adders at the engine all bets are kinda off. TC's, VB's, flex plates and input shafts can get a little angry.
No dodge doesnt, i must say their trucks are very nice and way better than a chevy but heres the only problem i have with them their transmissions will blowout 150k miles before a fords will and the engine will shoot into space by then as well. how many dodges do you see on craigslist that have original transmission and engine not rebuilt and running in perfect condition??? not many, they are very nice rides though.
i hate to say it but i kinda like them dodge cummins from 99-02 with a manual tranny but i would have a hard time gettin one that doesnt have a new tranny iin it. cause the worst part ever is dumping money into a truck like that.
Where is it that you people come up with this stuff? I've worked in a couple of transmission shops and generally speaking it was a constant string of Fords getting their transmissions rebuilt. The only Dodge trucks I saw coming in for transmission work were either heavily worked with a fair amount of miles or just flat out abused.
Post by: 383man on April 25, 2011, 04:02:44 PM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
thanks i appreciate that. if you wanna keep pissin people off on purpose with yer sarcasm and such u truely are one. But whatever i came into this thread sayin WTF y have people wasted 6 pages of stuff and then i threw a few in and then 8 pages later look where we are at. just a bunch of opinions have been presented. not proof that a damn chevy is better. or the bestest. whatever i dont have time in my life fer horse-*censored* like this anyway.
people can get pissed if they want to, or they can laugh at the sarcasm and poke back, there's a differance between sarcasm and outright immaturity, calling people names like your in high school...oh wait, you are, sorry, my bad, continue on sir...lol
Post by: alanger on April 25, 2011, 07:29:52 PM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
thanks i appreciate that. if you wanna keep pissin people off on purpose with yer sarcasm and such u truely are one. But whatever i came into this thread sayin WTF y have people wasted 6 pages of stuff and then i threw a few in and then 8 pages later look where we are at. just a bunch of opinions have been presented. not proof that a damn chevy is better. or the bestest. whatever i dont have time in my life fer horse-*censored* like this anyway.
people can get pissed if they want to, or they can laugh at the sarcasm and poke back, there's a differance between sarcasm and outright immaturity, calling people names like your in high school...oh wait, you are, sorry, my bad, continue on sir...lol
you wanna keep poking? keep going lets see where it goes. ill play back
Post by: 1bugman on April 25, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
It is a Chevy commercial, paid for by Chevy.... So of course it will skew things their way, they need to sell more of Obama's trucks since Government Motors is his pet project..... :bdid::yeah:
Will keep my Ford thank you,,, at least they did not take a welfar. hand out from the government, :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: :hello: l
Post by: ribka on April 25, 2011, 09:03:20 PM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
thanks i appreciate that. if you wanna keep pissin people off on purpose with yer sarcasm and such u truely are one. But whatever i came into this thread sayin WTF y have people wasted 6 pages of stuff and then i threw a few in and then 8 pages later look where we are at. just a bunch of opinions have been presented. not proof that a damn chevy is better. or the bestest. whatever i dont have time in my life fer horse-*censored* like this anyway.
people can get pissed if they want to, or they can laugh at the sarcasm and poke back, there's a differance between sarcasm and outright immaturity, calling people names like your in high school...oh wait, you are, sorry, my bad, continue on sir...lol
This thread bears an amazing similar resemblance in tone to a debate from my misspent youth from many years ago. I could not quite place it but now I remember::
The great who is the better rock band circa 1979, I was a sophomore in High School:
Styx or Van Halen???
Lot of guys were butthurt over that debate too. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :IBCOOL:
rock on
Eddie Van Halen Solo 1979 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uModVuTULlo#)
Post by: 383man on April 25, 2011, 09:20:38 PM
383, I have never been "offended" over this thread, I just think that it is idiotic and childish. The whole idea of this thread and my brand is and will always be better than yours is plain asinine. You started this thing out to get folks pissed off like some punk kid. I couldn't care less what a person drives but apparently you do and to me that is about as ridiculous as you can get. If you have all this time to look up this crap and post it here, you need to get a hobby, job or even better, a life. The fact that many or most of your "facts" are skewed or flat out wrong just proves my point. And yes, I am guilty of post in a couple of times but it is quite a bit different than going on and on about something this stupid. :twocents:
haha, I have a job, a very good one thanks, a girlfriend, a life, tons of hobbies, and yes, this happens to be one of them, offending people like you lol. With the world wide web, my posts take about 15 minutes of searching to find good links and information. man, what to do with the other 23 hours and 45 minutes... lol, but I do love debating people and stirring up S#^t. I didn't start this post to get people pissed, I assumed, how foolish of me, that people would have fun with it, and argue some, maybe get a little heated, but not get all crazy and out of line. After all we are all adults here, well except for me, i'm only twelve. I only have the ability to go on and on if there is someone to go on and on with, they seem to be having fun with it, as am I mostly. I'm sure you took seriously my "your offended" comment to you, just kidding man, I assumed you'd get the sarcasm. There is absolutely no reason for people to get offended except by people calling others names a.k.a. *censored*-that's real mature alanger. maybe we should just put this topic to bed, it may have run it's course...
:cryriver:
thanks i appreciate that. if you wanna keep pissin people off on purpose with yer sarcasm and such u truely are one. But whatever i came into this thread sayin WTF y have people wasted 6 pages of stuff and then i threw a few in and then 8 pages later look where we are at. just a bunch of opinions have been presented. not proof that a damn chevy is better. or the bestest. whatever i dont have time in my life fer horse-*censored* like this anyway.
people can get pissed if they want to, or they can laugh at the sarcasm and poke back, there's a differance between sarcasm and outright immaturity, calling people names like your in high school...oh wait, you are, sorry, my bad, continue on sir...lol
you wanna keep poking? keep going lets see where it goes. ill play back
haha, I'm sure you will alanger, just another testament to your age or lack there of. grow up kid. and ribka, awesome, I hope this is a sign of us not bickering at each other anymore lol. I guess we can chalk it up to agree to disagree :)
Post by: Caseyd on April 25, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
Post by: PolarBear on April 26, 2011, 12:38:46 AM
Post by: Buckmark on April 26, 2011, 10:34:28 AM