Post by: Tinner on April 19, 2011, 03:32:59 PM
Post by: longknife on April 19, 2011, 04:08:53 PM
Post by: Tinner on April 19, 2011, 04:26:54 PM
Post by: adamR on April 19, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on April 19, 2011, 07:41:18 PM
Post by: Tinner on April 21, 2011, 09:32:01 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on April 21, 2011, 09:43:48 PM
Yeah I here ya, It just seems fishy to me that everywhere around Bethel has 200 cow tags. Thanks for all your opinions.
The surrounding GMUs 352 and 356 are only giving out 5 tags each also. The game department doesn't think there are enough elk in these units to sustain a big harvest :dunno:
Post by: Fish4Fun on April 22, 2011, 06:39:49 AM
Post by: Glockster on April 22, 2011, 09:11:41 AM
If the Yakima herd is over their goal why don't they manage it on a PMU basis?....Figure the amount of cows they want gone, issue the proper amount of permits, let the hunters decide where to hunt....Bethel, Rimrock, Nile, Bumping...those animals can cover 12 to 20 miles in 24hrs. These units don't mean anything to them, why should we be handcuffed?
Post by: iRem on April 23, 2011, 10:02:52 PM
WDFW is not managing the herd, they are attempting to manage people. I don't know why they are doing this.:yeah:
If the Yakima herd is over their goal why don't they manage it on a PMU basis?....Figure the amount of cows they want gone, issue the proper amount of permits, let the hunters decide where to hunt....Bethel, Rimrock, Nile, Bumping...those animals can cover 12 to 20 miles in 24hrs. These units don't mean anything to them, why should we be handcuffed?
Post by: dreamingbig on April 25, 2011, 10:23:59 AM
Post by: HoofsandWings on April 25, 2011, 12:03:36 PM
starting to be to many hunters during muzzleloader in bethel and not enough elk... a couple years ago it was really good and then everyone opened there mouths and brought everyone they knew and now it is going down hillYou just have to look at the harvest reports to see what is happening in Bethel.
Most of those cow tags are for the last few days of the season. Is it possible that once the shooting starts, the cows head to Rimrock and Cowiche?
Also, in 2009, as an example Bethel had a 45% success rate for cows (49 permits/45 hunters/22 cows), while Rimrock had a 15% success rate (149 permits/104 hunters/23 cows) for those that hunted cows. If you have a target of 30 cows, and you have a success rate of 15%how many permits need to be issued? Answer is 200.
Also, if you look at the number of hunters that hunted cow in Bethel it is 92% of the permit holders, while in Rimrock, it was 70%.
There probably is an expected percent of permit holders who actually hunt and an expected success rate. Looks like Bethel out performed this rate, therefore fewer permits, while Rimrock underperformed therefore more permits.
If you want more permits next season, you have to convince all of the permit holders for Bethel this year to not hunt or miss on purpose. :chuckle:
Post by: hughjorgan on April 25, 2011, 12:06:50 PM
There reason is that PMU 35 is suffering compared to the rest of the Yakima herd. You should be lucky you have 5 cow tags. For the archery season it is now spike only, that is right we can't shoot cows anymore. They changed it last year. That said there are still just as many animals in the area according to my unofficial count last year by putting 10 days in the field where the elk are. They need to stop relying on only aerial surveys and where out some boot leather.
From what I read in the status and trend report was that they didn't even do a aerial survey due to lack of snow, so they went ahead and used counts from the feed stations and hunter harvest reports. But if there isn't much snow to push the majority of the herd down to lower winter range how are they going to get an accurate count of the health of the herd for this PMU? There is lots of elk in these units and will be more in the future I bet because of them not allowing the harvest of cows.
Post by: HoofsandWings on April 25, 2011, 12:14:34 PM
Among that group of successful cow permit holders, what percentage harvested a bull prior to hunting a cow? If you look at the number of points it took to get a cow tag in 2009 versus 2010, you are looking at a whole different population of hunters. These are hunters that seldom if ever put in for cow tags.
Once the 2010 permit holder harvest stats come out, we will get a better idea of the big picture.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 25, 2011, 12:32:54 PM
Hughjorgan- I agree; I read the same. There survey methods were pitiful. They said they consulted the local bowhunters and swapped little naches with bumping for anterless harvest. It was under the radar and they did it prior to last season. These kind of switches during the 3 year season shouldn't be allowed without a vote but they did it and weren't going to change it back for this season. Who knows if we ever get it back but I am going to keep bugging them about it!
Post by: Glockster on April 26, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
Yes, that's just across the river.
If they want a dependable, predictable harvest success rate, why do they not allow the cow tag holders to shoot until Wednesday? If you want the cow kill to be on target for herd management goals, you would have those cows die on opening day IMHO.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 26, 2011, 02:06:46 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on April 26, 2011, 02:56:30 PM
'Most of those cow tags are for the last few days of the season. Is it possible that once the shooting starts, the cows head to Rimrock and Cowiche?'
Yes, that's just across the river.
If they want a dependable, predictable harvest success rate, why do they not allow the cow tag holders to shoot until Wednesday? If you want the cow kill to be on target for herd management goals, you would have those cows die on opening day IMHO.
The game department doesn't want you to be successful they just want your money though.