Post by: bigtex on May 12, 2011, 03:06:59 PM
http://discoverpass.wa.gov/ (http://discoverpass.wa.gov/)
Post by: MtnMuley on May 12, 2011, 03:17:04 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 12, 2011, 03:19:59 PM
These passes are far and beyond ridiculous these days. :twocents: Before long, I will need a punchcard, limiting the amount of times I can sh*t in the the woods.
Oh, they have that. It's called the "Oh Crap, It's Another Stinking Fee Card".
Post by: grundy53 on May 12, 2011, 03:22:56 PM
Post by: arees on May 12, 2011, 03:46:02 PM
Post by: BIGINNER on May 12, 2011, 03:48:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on May 12, 2011, 03:54:42 PM
so..... what type of huntin/fishing licence do you have to have to be exempt?
The exemption is only for WDFW lands. So if you hunt DNR lands and it is listed as an area that needs the pass then you need to buy the discovery pass. Those who purchase big-game or small-game hunting license, western Washington pheasant permit, trapping license, Watchable Wildlife decal, or saltwater or freshwater or combination recreational fishing license will receive a complimentary vehicle access pass (like you do now) but it can only be used for WDFW lands.
Post by: Special T on May 12, 2011, 03:59:59 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 12, 2011, 04:33:08 PM
When you buy a hunting and/or fishing license, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land."
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, or incorrectly for that matter, but the WDFW pass only covers us when hunting or fishing on said WDFW managed land.
Going camping, day shed hunt, other.... for example on WDFW managed land, isn't the Discover Pass still required?
I guess I could have a fishing pole leaning against my lawn chair while dry camping in the middle of the LT Murray and say I just got back from a five mile hike to Taneum Cr to do a little fishing. :chuckle:
Post by: bigtex on May 12, 2011, 04:37:28 PM
"Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands.
When you buy a hunting and/or fishing license, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land."
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, or incorrectly for that matter, but the WDFW pass only covers us when hunting or fishing on said WDFW managed land.
Going camping, day shed hunt, other.... for example on WDFW managed land, isn't the Discover Pass still required?
I guess I could have a fishing pole leaning against my lawn chair while dry camping in the middle of the LT Murray and say I just got back from a five mile hike to Taneum Cr to do a little fishing. :chuckle:
Your reading too much into it. If your on WDFW land either the WDFW pass or Discover Pass is required, no matter what you are doing.
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 12, 2011, 04:44:03 PM
I agree with that."Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands.
When you buy a hunting and/or fishing license, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land."
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, or incorrectly for that matter, but the WDFW pass only covers us when hunting or fishing on said WDFW managed land.
Going camping, day shed hunt, other.... for example on WDFW managed land, isn't the Discover Pass still required?
I guess I could have a fishing pole leaning against my lawn chair while dry camping in the middle of the LT Murray and say I just got back from a five mile hike to Taneum Cr to do a little fishing. :chuckle:
Your reading too much into it. If your on WDFW land either the WDFW pass or Discover Pass is required, no matter what you are doing.
But the heading on the topic on the Discovery Pass page http://discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/ (http://discoverpass.wa.gov/exemptions/) at bullet #2 does say "Hunting and Fishing on...."
Maybe it's another State money grab attempt for those who have the WDFW issued pass with the license purchase and are just camping and not partaking in a hunting and fishing excursion. :chuckle:
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 12, 2011, 04:47:29 PM
I guess we have to be doing both or get a $99 fine.
Maybe "or" would have been the better choice of words here.
LOL!!!!
Post by: Red Leg on May 12, 2011, 05:58:10 PM
I park on public road, bordering privite timber
land where you can walk in when allowed, no fees yet. I hike 5 miles in on private land and end up on a large tract of DNR land. I am walking on a log road and a DNR Officer pulls up and stops. Maybe he just wants to check the lisence. Do I need this Discover Pass?
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 12, 2011, 07:23:37 PM
I am sure this is mentioned some where.I'd say no.
I park on public road, bordering privite timber
land where you can walk in when allowed, no fees yet. I hike 5 miles in on private land and end up on a large tract of DNR land. I am walking on a log road and a DNR Officer pulls up and stops. Maybe he just wants to check the lisence. Do I need this Discover Pass?
The pass is displayed on the vehicle, not the person.
Remember, not all DNR land falls under this pass situation. Just the DNR land that is Recreation Sites, like Naneum Ridge State Forest and Ahtanum State Forest to name just 2.
Post by: bigtex on May 12, 2011, 08:06:15 PM
I am sure this is mentioned some where.I'd say no.
I park on public road, bordering privite timber
land where you can walk in when allowed, no fees yet. I hike 5 miles in on private land and end up on a large tract of DNR land. I am walking on a log road and a DNR Officer pulls up and stops. Maybe he just wants to check the lisence. Do I need this Discover Pass?
The pass is displayed on the vehicle, not the person.
Remember, not all DNR land falls under this pass situation. Just the DNR land that is Recreation Sites, like Naneum Ridge State Forest and Ahtanum State Forest to name just 2.
:yeah:
For DNR it is only recreation sites where the pass is required. Not the small parcels of DNR land that is allover the state. The Discover Pass website lists which locations you need the pass.
Post by: Forester on May 12, 2011, 08:50:29 PM
Post by: swanny on May 12, 2011, 08:57:02 PM
I have no problem with this pass, just wish it was good for two vehicles.
Post by: bobcat on May 12, 2011, 09:03:06 PM
I have no problem with this pass, just wish it was good for two vehicles.
:yeah: I have four vehicles I need to buy the pass for, if I want to continue to use DNR and WDFW lands. So, instead of buying four, I won't be buying any. Well, I take that back- my wife said she will want it for her car, so she can take the kids to a local state park. But I will no longer be hunting in Capitol Forest. That's about the only area I can think of where I will no longer be able to go. It's kind of a shame because I like taking the kids out there. But we've got plenty of other places to go where we can enjoy the same activities, without having to spend $90.
Post by: bigtex on May 12, 2011, 09:14:53 PM
So if I use a state parks boat launch and don't park there, just launch do I need one? Is the seven dollar boat launch fee good or will I need both?
If you pay the state park launch fee you don't need any other pass.
Post by: swanny on May 13, 2011, 07:05:39 AM
I have no problem with this pass, just wish it was good for two vehicles.
:yeah: I have four vehicles I need to buy the pass for, if I want to continue to use DNR and WDFW lands. So, instead of buying four, I won't be buying any. Well, I take that back- my wife said she will want it for her car, so she can take the kids to a local state park. But I will no longer be hunting in Capitol Forest. That's about the only area I can think of where I will no longer be able to go. It's kind of a shame because I like taking the kids out there. But we've got plenty of other places to go where we can enjoy the same activities, without having to spend $90.
Ouch! Totally BS that you can't at least get it for two vehicles like the WDFW parking passes. At least those are "free" with out licenses still
Post by: dscubame on May 13, 2011, 07:10:32 AM
Post by: Wazukie on May 13, 2011, 07:32:18 AM
With four vehicles your better off just risking a ticket. Risk to reward odds seem to be in your favor. With just one vehicle in my situation I am going to risk the ticket and I must consider with the budget cuts how how much manpower can posssibly be dedicated to enforcement.
Not much enforcement where I live, unless of course there is a big 3D archery shoot on state land in Larual. All you Klickitat 3d shooters better buy your pass this year I guess. Glad i dont hunt on state land.
Post by: bigtex on May 13, 2011, 09:26:57 AM
Post by: bigtex on May 13, 2011, 04:38:44 PM
With four vehicles your better off just risking a ticket. Risk to reward odds seem to be in your favor. With just one vehicle in my situation I am going to risk the ticket and I must consider with the budget cuts how how much manpower can posssibly be dedicated to enforcement.
Not much enforcement where I live, unless of course there is a big 3D archery shoot on state land in Larual. All you Klickitat 3d shooters better buy your pass this year I guess. Glad i dont hunt on state land.
The only DNR land in Klickitat County you will need the pass at is the Buck Creek Trailheads (1&2) and Trails.
Post by: Wazukie on May 13, 2011, 05:26:42 PM
Bird Creek Camp ground is a DNR Rec. site is it not?With four vehicles your better off just risking a ticket. Risk to reward odds seem to be in your favor. With just one vehicle in my situation I am going to risk the ticket and I must consider with the budget cuts how how much manpower can posssibly be dedicated to enforcement.
Not much enforcement where I live, unless of course there is a big 3D archery shoot on state land in Larual. All you Klickitat 3d shooters better buy your pass this year I guess. Glad i dont hunt on state land.
The only DNR land in Klickitat County you will need the pass at is the Buck Creek Trailheads (1&2) and Trails.
Post by: bigtex on May 13, 2011, 06:13:44 PM
Bird Creek Camp ground is a DNR Rec. site is it not?With four vehicles your better off just risking a ticket. Risk to reward odds seem to be in your favor. With just one vehicle in my situation I am going to risk the ticket and I must consider with the budget cuts how how much manpower can posssibly be dedicated to enforcement.
Not much enforcement where I live, unless of course there is a big 3D archery shoot on state land in Larual. All you Klickitat 3d shooters better buy your pass this year I guess. Glad i dont hunt on state land.
The only DNR land in Klickitat County you will need the pass at is the Buck Creek Trailheads (1&2) and Trails.
Bird Creek is DNR however it is in Yakima County which is why I said the only site in Klick is Buck Creek. You will need the pass at Bird Creek
Post by: Wazukie on May 13, 2011, 07:55:12 PM
Post by: Armadillo on May 14, 2011, 09:39:24 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 14, 2011, 09:45:48 PM
Post by: Armadillo on May 14, 2011, 09:50:13 PM
Post by: bigtex on May 14, 2011, 09:59:50 PM
Post by: Armadillo on May 14, 2011, 10:14:21 PM
Post by: 280ackley on May 14, 2011, 11:09:17 PM
Post by: Armadillo on May 15, 2011, 07:34:14 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on May 15, 2011, 08:23:42 AM
schweet! thats the best news ive heard all day 8)
The signs on Coleman Rd used to read DFW Colockum Wildlife area, now it's
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naneum Ridge State Forest (Chelan and Kittitas counties)
Recreation Area Status Additional Information
Naneum Ridge State Forest Open No open fires or barbecue briquettes allowed from April 15 to October 15.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like about $150 in our camp
Post by: cryfowl on May 15, 2011, 10:04:41 AM
Here's what the flyer says:
The Discover Pass – your ticket to Washington’s great outdoors
Beginning July 1, visitors will be required to display a Discover Pass on their vehicles to access Washington state parks and state recreation lands managed by the Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR). A bill creating the Discover Pass was passed by the 2011 Legislature and has been signed into law by the Governor.
Revenue from the Discover Pass is needed to make up the loss of general fund money that historically has been available for recreation on state lands. As a response to the state budget crisis, budget proposals for the next two years include almost no general fund dollars for recreation on state lands. To ensure the public may continue to enjoy these recreation lands, the state must shift from relying on tax revenue from the general fund to a user-pay approach to pay for recreation.
The three agencies are working together to provide one pass for access to nearly 7 million acres of state-managed recreation lands, including parks, campgrounds, wildlife areas, trails, natural and wilderness areas and water access points.
Following are some questions and answers about the Discover Pass. For more information, visit www.discoverpass.wa.gov (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov) or call toll-free (866) 320-9933.
Q. How much does the Discover Pass cost?
A. The Discover Pass costs $30 per vehicle per year or $10 per vehicle for a day-use pass. Dealer and transaction fees may apply. Dealer fee is $2 per annual pass or $.50 for the day pass; transaction fee is 10 percent of the cost of the pass/permit. The annual pass is good for one year from the purchase date.
Q. Where will I need a Discover Pass?
A. The pass provides access to state recreation lands and water access sites managed by State Parks State Parks, WDFW and DNR. These lands include state parks, water access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads.
Q. When will the Discover Pass go into effect?
A. The pass goes into effect on July 1, 2011. The three agencies are working together to make the Discover Pass available for purchase prior to July 1, 2011.
Q. Where can I purchase a daily or annual pass?
A. You have several options for purchasing a pass:
1. In person at any of nearly 600 sporting goods or other retail stores that sell hunting and fishing licenses.
2. Online through WDFW’s online recreational licensing system. Visit online at www.discoverpass.wa.gov (http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov)
3. When you renew your vehicle license. Beginning in fall 2011, you will be able to purchase a pass when renewing a vehicle license through the Washington State Department of Licensing.
Q. Can we just purchase one Discover Pass and share it among our vehicles?
A. No. You will need the pass for each street-legal vehicle you intend to use to access state land.
Q. If I am gathering mushrooms, berries or firewood for my personal use or doing other dispersed recreation activities such as geocaching, driving forest roads, bird watching, etc., do I still need to purchase an access pass?
A. Yes. All street-licensed vehicles will need a Discover Pass to access state recreation lands managed by the agencies, regardless of the type of activity or use.
Q. What is the penalty for not having a Discover Pass or daily pass on my vehicle?
A. The penalty is $99. This penalty is reduced to $59 if an individual provides proof of purchase of the Discover Pass to the court within 15 days after the notice of violation.
Exemptions to the Discover Pass requirement
Your purchase helps to maintain state recreation lands; however, the following are exempt from needing a Discover Pass.
(Please note that even though the following are exempt from the pass requirement, when you purchase your pass you are helping to maintain and operate state recreation lands. You also can help by continuing to donate to Washington State Parks when you register a vehicle through the state Department of Licensing.)
Q. Can volunteers obtain a complimentary Discover Pass?
A. Yes. Volunteers who work 24 hours on agency-approved projects can earn a complimentary annual pass. Each agency must provide vouchers to volunteers, recording the number of hours they worked on each project. Volunteers can redeem the voucher for the annual Discovery Pass. The three agencies are currently developing the details of the complimentary Discover Pass, such as where and how volunteers get vouchers, what constitutes an agency-approved project and where people can go to redeem their vouchers.
Q. Do I need a Discover Pass when I camp at a state park?
A. No. Your camping reservation stub where you have reserved a campsite or your camping fee receipt at a first-come, first-served park will serve as your permit for the duration of your camping stay in the park. If you were to visit other parks in the area, you would need an annual or daily pass. A Discover Pass is required to camp on lands managed by DNR and WDFW since the two agencies do not charge for camping.
Q. Will disabled veterans and other State Parks pass holders need to purchase the pass?
A. Qualified disabled veterans and other pass holders will not need to purchase a Discover Pass for access to Washington state parks, but they will need to purchase the pass for access to lands managed by WDFW and DNR.
Q. If I purchase a Natural Investment Permit for State Parks watercraft launch sites, do I need to purchase the Discover Pass?
A. No, you will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW.
Updated May 12, 2011
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 10:17:11 AM
So you need one just to be in the Capital Forest? What about people working in there, is there a exception?
Yes you need one for the Capital Forest. There are exceptions in the bill for workers and other people that are there for department needs.
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 10:18:55 AM
schweet! thats the best news ive heard all day 8)
The signs on Coleman Rd used to read DFW Colockum Wildlife area, now it's
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naneum Ridge State Forest (Chelan and Kittitas counties)
Recreation Area Status Additional Information
Naneum Ridge State Forest Open No open fires or barbecue briquettes allowed from April 15 to October 15.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like about $150 in our camp
In the past 4 years or so DNR and WDFW have been doing land swaps basically to remove the checkerboard layout of WDFW and DNR land, as a result the DNR created the Naneum St Forest.
Post by: sakoshooter on May 15, 2011, 10:22:52 AM
Persons who have purchased one of our major fishing or hunting licenses, e.g. big game, small game, fishing, western Washington pheasant, will have access to all WDFW lands and access sites for no additional charge. You can go to our website and find a complete set of Q&A's including a complete list of our licenses that qualify for free access to WDFW lands.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/wildlife_areas/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/wildlife_areas/)
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 10:30:23 AM
I just received this response this morning from Phil Anderson(WDFW Director):
Persons who have purchased one of our major fishing or hunting licenses, e.g. big game, small game, fishing, western Washington pheasant, will have access to all WDFW lands and access sites for no additional charge. You can go to our website and find a complete set of Q&A's including a complete list of our licenses that qualify for free access to WDFW lands.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/wildlife_areas/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/wildlife_areas/)
And thats exactly what we've been saying the entire time..... :bash: :bash:
Post by: bobcat on May 15, 2011, 10:44:31 AM
Quote
Exemptions to the Discover Pass
Your purchase of the Discover Pass supports recreation on state lands. However, you do not need to purchase the pass under the following circumstances:
Please note: Even though the pass is not required in these cases, your purchase helps to maintain, manage and operate state recreation lands. As funding for recreation shifts from tax support to user fees, the responsibility to cover the costs of these exemptions will shift from the general public to visitors. You also may continue to donate to Washington State Parks when you register a vehicle through the Department of Licensing.
- Camping in a Washington state park: Your camping reservation stub or camping fee receipt will serve as your permit for the duration of your stay in the park where you have paid for a campsite. If you visit other state parks in the area, you will need an annual or daily Discover Pass. You will need a pass if you are camping on lands managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).
- Hunting and fishing on WDFW-managed lands. When you buy certain types of hunting and fishing licenses, you will receive a vehicle access pass for WDFW-managed lands and won’t need the Discover Pass on those lands. You will still need the Discover Pass to hunt or fish on DNR or State Parks land.
- Sno-Park seasonal permit holders: You do not need a Discover Pass to use a designated Sno-Park between Nov. 1 and March 31 for winter recreation activities. The Sno-Park (http://www.parks.wa.gov/winter/trails/) permit exception does not apply to non-winter recreation activities.
- Off-Road Vehicle (ORVs): If your ORV is required to display an ORV tab, you do not need a Discover Pass for that vehicle. Generally, ORVs are non street-legal vehicles. You will need a Discover Pass for the street-legal vehicle that transports your ORV to a state recreation site. The trailer does not require a pass.
- Disabled veterans and other State Parks pass holders: Qualified disabled veterans and other qualified State Parks pass holders registered through State Parks do not need to purchase a Discover Pass for access to Washington state parks. They will need to purchase the Discover Pass for access to lands managed by WDFW and DNR.
- State Parks boat launch sites. You will not need a Discover Pass to launch your boat from a State Parks boat launch if you have the appropriate permit. You will need the Discover Pass for boat launches managed by DNR and WDFW.
- Volunteers. Volunteers who work 24 hours or more on agency-approved projects are eligible for a complimentary Discover Pass.
- Those with certain written agreements with agencies. Individuals or parties with written authorizations including, but not limited to, leases, contracts and easements do not need to purchase a Discover Pass to access state recreation lands.
Post by: Special T on May 15, 2011, 10:54:07 AM
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 11:03:25 AM
I think this pass is like rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. :bash: I highly doubt this will raise the kind of $$$ the state is hoping for. I will use the WDFW areas my included pass will allow. For those who use State park launches, the pass may actually SAVE them $$$. and for all the people that traditionally use the parks and pay nothing won't even bother showing up... So i see a net decrease in $$$ earned not an increase. :bash:
:yeah:
If you think about the top 2 users of State Parks are campers and those using the boat launch, and those people are exempt from buying the Discovery Pass because they are already paying camping/launch fees. So the only people that will really be buying the pass for Parks are day use people.
Post by: bobcat on May 15, 2011, 11:09:16 AM
Post by: Jack Diamond on May 15, 2011, 02:53:17 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 15, 2011, 02:58:12 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 15, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on May 15, 2011, 03:20:52 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 15, 2011, 03:25:44 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on May 15, 2011, 03:31:28 PM
Post by: Special T on May 15, 2011, 06:47:37 PM
In order to impose a penalty to people that have no $$$ it actually costs the state $$$ in imprisonment. We are always asked to pay for more enforcement, when a small percentage of people cause most of the problem. With misdemeanors like a pass infraction do you think they are going to put someone in jail for any period of time? I would suggest a fine OR corporal punishment like what happens in Singapore... Does anyone remember the Caining that happened to the juvenile that spray painted graffiti several years back? Misdemeanors in Singapore are not violated because of the physical threat of pain, nothing else...
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 07:39:01 PM
With misdemeanors like a pass infraction do you think they are going to put someone in jail for any period of time?
Not displaying the pass will be an infraction which is not a criminal offense= no jail time possible, only fines. Most traffic, ORV/ATV, snowmobile violations are infractions. Example of fish wildlife infractions are no hunter orange, barbed hooks, most WDFW land use violations, fail to record catch on catch record card. There was a time when every offense was criminal but that changed many years ago.
Federal violations (such as violating USFS, BLM, NPS, USFWS rules) are still all criminal and arrestable, even for parking violations.
Post by: Armadillo on May 15, 2011, 07:45:53 PM
schweet! thats the best news ive heard all day 8)
The signs on Coleman Rd used to read DFW Colockum Wildlife area, now it's
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naneum Ridge State Forest (Chelan and Kittitas counties)
Recreation Area Status Additional Information
Naneum Ridge State Forest Open No open fires or barbecue briquettes allowed from April 15 to October 15.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like about $150 in our camp
I knew there was a good reason not to hunt the Colockum
Post by: Special T on May 15, 2011, 09:57:31 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on May 15, 2011, 10:15:24 PM
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
Post by: bigtex on May 15, 2011, 10:40:48 PM
As far as no jail time if I read Big Tex right, what the hell is there a fine for, other than the obvious, if you can't pay the fine I would expect an FTA warrant. just don't get it!!!
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
I thought most people knew this about "infractions" in this state. There are two types of infractions in WA, natural resource infractions and civil infractions.
Natural resource infractions are offenses that are classified as infractions and fall under RCW 76 (Forest and Forest Products "DNR"), 77 (Fish and Wildlife Code "DFW"), 79 (Public Lands "State Parks), and 79A (Public Relational Lands, mainly boating regs). The Discover Pass violation will be a natural resource infraction and will actually have a different offense for each agency. So the RCW for not having the pass on WDFW lands will be different from the RCW in a park which will be different from the RCW on DNR lands, although the fines will be the same. Civil infractions are basically all other infractions, anything from drinking in public to driving with no insurance.
By statute if you "ignore" a infraction you can have charges of contempt of court filed on you, but I don't think that has ever happened, too many infractions are ignored and simply isn’t enough prosecutors. However, if you "ignore" a traffic citation (including ORV/ATV and snowmobile citations) your driver’s license will be suspended.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on May 16, 2011, 04:26:40 AM
In the past 4 years or so DNR and WDFW have been doing land swaps basically to remove the checkerboard layout of WDFW and DNR land, as a result the DNR created the Naneum St Forest.
And this made things better how? I've seen how DNR takes care of elk cover in the area, and the only thing worse for the elk is native seasons!
another thing....I wonder how much of our budget shortfall was created by administrative costs for these transactions of the last 4 years or so?
Post by: bigtex on May 16, 2011, 11:09:14 AM
In the past 4 years or so DNR and WDFW have been doing land swaps basically to remove the checkerboard layout of WDFW and DNR land, as a result the DNR created the Naneum St Forest.
And this made things better how? I've seen how DNR takes care of elk cover in the area, and the only thing worse for the elk is native seasons!
another thing....I wonder how much of our budget shortfall was created by administrative costs for these transactions of the last 4 years or so?
The land swaps are actually a way to save money and consolidate land, WDFW has actually been the winner in these land swaps because they have been increasing the amount of their acreage by quite a bit. The main reason for these land swaps is management, it is easier to manage land that is consolidated and in one chunk then manage land that is scattered.
Post by: lastmk8 on May 28, 2011, 10:37:58 AM
Post by: bigtex on May 28, 2011, 10:53:49 AM
Another loop-hole that won't hlep us out anyway, even if fined, what is the chance the ticket is ever paid?
Well thats kind of a common misconception with Fish and Wildlife tickets. A lot of people think fish and wildlife citation $ go to WDFW, thats essentially false. Each county can either keep the violation $ for RCW 77 (Fish and Wildlife code) offenses no matter what the agency is that wrote the ticket, OR they can receive PILT payments (a form of property tax payments that governments give counties). If the county keeps the RCW 77 violation money they don't get PILT payments, if they choose the PILT payments (and usually about 30 counties take the PILT option) the RCW 77 violation money goes into the state general fund.
Now the state general fund funds most state agencies (with the exception of a few, such as starting July 1 State Parks will no longer get general fund $). However State Park and DNR tickets go directly into the counties pockets, which doesn't help state agencies at all.
With the
Post by: sakoshooter on May 28, 2011, 11:39:27 AM
As far as no jail time if I read Big Tex right, what the hell is there a fine for, other than the obvious, if you can't pay the fine I would expect an FTA warrant. just don't get it!!!
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
I thought most people knew this about "infractions" in this state. There are two types of infractions in WA, natural resource infractions and civil infractions.
Natural resource infractions are offenses that are classified as infractions and fall under RCW 76 (Forest and Forest Products "DNR"), 77 (Fish and Wildlife Code "DFW"), 79 (Public Lands "State Parks), and 79A (Public Relational Lands, mainly boating regs). The Discover Pass violation will be a natural resource infraction and will actually have a different offense for each agency. So the RCW for not having the pass on WDFW lands will be different from the RCW in a park which will be different from the RCW on DNR lands, although the fines will be the same. Civil infractions are basically all other infractions, anything from drinking in public to driving with no insurance.
By statute if you "ignore" a infraction you can have charges of contempt of court filed on you, but I don't think that has ever happened, too many infractions are ignored and simply isn’t enough prosecutors. However, if you "ignore" a traffic citation (including ORV/ATV and snowmobile citations) your driver’s license will be suspended.
BigTex, I appreciate you explaining "infractions" but how in the hell would most people know about infractions? We don't work with them for a job as you do!
Front page headlines a couple months back quoted the Gov as saying 'there'd be no enforcement for the Discover Pass as they didn't have the resources to police it'.
Why did they bother to spend the $millions$ creating it, beaurocratically discussing it and implimenting it if they never had any intentions of enforcing it?
Post by: bigtex on May 28, 2011, 07:14:52 PM
As far as no jail time if I read Big Tex right, what the hell is there a fine for, other than the obvious, if you can't pay the fine I would expect an FTA warrant. just don't get it!!!
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
I thought most people knew this about "infractions" in this state. There are two types of infractions in WA, natural resource infractions and civil infractions.
Natural resource infractions are offenses that are classified as infractions and fall under RCW 76 (Forest and Forest Products "DNR"), 77 (Fish and Wildlife Code "DFW"), 79 (Public Lands "State Parks), and 79A (Public Relational Lands, mainly boating regs). The Discover Pass violation will be a natural resource infraction and will actually have a different offense for each agency. So the RCW for not having the pass on WDFW lands will be different from the RCW in a park which will be different from the RCW on DNR lands, although the fines will be the same. Civil infractions are basically all other infractions, anything from drinking in public to driving with no insurance.
By statute if you "ignore" a infraction you can have charges of contempt of court filed on you, but I don't think that has ever happened, too many infractions are ignored and simply isn’t enough prosecutors. However, if you "ignore" a traffic citation (including ORV/ATV and snowmobile citations) your driver’s license will be suspended.
BigTex, I appreciate you explaining "infractions" but how in the hell would most people know about infractions? We don't work with them for a job as you do!
Front page headlines a couple months back quoted the Gov as saying 'there'd be no enforcement for the Discover Pass as they didn't have the resources to police it'.
Why did they bother to spend the $millions$ creating it, beaurocratically discussing it and implimenting it if they never had any intentions of enforcing it?
It will be enforced by all three agencies. Like I have said many times the violation for not having the current WDFW vehicle use permit is the most commonly written ticket for WDFW Officers today. You add to the fact that this pass will be the only funding source for State Parks and their Rangers will be enforcing this regulation fiercely, because for them no pass=less funding.
Post by: billythekidrock on May 28, 2011, 08:05:09 PM
As far as no jail time if I read Big Tex right, what the hell is there a fine for, other than the obvious, if you can't pay the fine I would expect an FTA warrant. just don't get it!!!
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
I thought most people knew this about "infractions" in this state. There are two types of infractions in WA, natural resource infractions and civil infractions.
Natural resource infractions are offenses that are classified as infractions and fall under RCW 76 (Forest and Forest Products "DNR"), 77 (Fish and Wildlife Code "DFW"), 79 (Public Lands "State Parks), and 79A (Public Relational Lands, mainly boating regs). The Discover Pass violation will be a natural resource infraction and will actually have a different offense for each agency. So the RCW for not having the pass on WDFW lands will be different from the RCW in a park which will be different from the RCW on DNR lands, although the fines will be the same. Civil infractions are basically all other infractions, anything from drinking in public to driving with no insurance.
By statute if you "ignore" a infraction you can have charges of contempt of court filed on you, but I don't think that has ever happened, too many infractions are ignored and simply isn’t enough prosecutors. However, if you "ignore" a traffic citation (including ORV/ATV and snowmobile citations) your driver’s license will be suspended.
BigTex, I appreciate you explaining "infractions" but how in the hell would most people know about infractions? We don't work with them for a job as you do!
Front page headlines a couple months back quoted the Gov as saying 'there'd be no enforcement for the Discover Pass as they didn't have the resources to police it'.
Why did they bother to spend the $millions$ creating it, beaurocratically discussing it and implimenting it if they never had any intentions of enforcing it?
It will be enforced by all three agencies. Like I have said many times the violation for not having the current WDFW vehicle use permit is the most commonly written ticket for WDFW Officers today. You add to the fact that this pass will be the only funding source for State Parks and their Rangers will be enforcing this regulation fiercely, because for them no pass=less funding.
So that being said, I assume DNR will continue to lock the gates since the few dollars they will get is not worth enforcing.
I highly doubt DNR will spend much time enforcing this when it comes to State Forests and varied user groups. I forsee a very large "grace period" and a pontential for public outcry.
Post by: bigtex on May 28, 2011, 08:23:46 PM
As far as no jail time if I read Big Tex right, what the hell is there a fine for, other than the obvious, if you can't pay the fine I would expect an FTA warrant. just don't get it!!!
So according to Tex they can just ignore the infractions, no possible jail time. I'll let someone else try that out..
I thought most people knew this about "infractions" in this state. There are two types of infractions in WA, natural resource infractions and civil infractions.
Natural resource infractions are offenses that are classified as infractions and fall under RCW 76 (Forest and Forest Products "DNR"), 77 (Fish and Wildlife Code "DFW"), 79 (Public Lands "State Parks), and 79A (Public Relational Lands, mainly boating regs). The Discover Pass violation will be a natural resource infraction and will actually have a different offense for each agency. So the RCW for not having the pass on WDFW lands will be different from the RCW in a park which will be different from the RCW on DNR lands, although the fines will be the same. Civil infractions are basically all other infractions, anything from drinking in public to driving with no insurance.
By statute if you "ignore" a infraction you can have charges of contempt of court filed on you, but I don't think that has ever happened, too many infractions are ignored and simply isn’t enough prosecutors. However, if you "ignore" a traffic citation (including ORV/ATV and snowmobile citations) your driver’s license will be suspended.
BigTex, I appreciate you explaining "infractions" but how in the hell would most people know about infractions? We don't work with them for a job as you do!
Front page headlines a couple months back quoted the Gov as saying 'there'd be no enforcement for the Discover Pass as they didn't have the resources to police it'.
Why did they bother to spend the $millions$ creating it, beaurocratically discussing it and implimenting it if they never had any intentions of enforcing it?
It will be enforced by all three agencies. Like I have said many times the violation for not having the current WDFW vehicle use permit is the most commonly written ticket for WDFW Officers today. You add to the fact that this pass will be the only funding source for State Parks and their Rangers will be enforcing this regulation fiercely, because for them no pass=less funding.
So that being said, I assume DNR will continue to lock the gates since the few dollars they will get is not worth enforcing.
I highly doubt DNR will spend much time enforcing this when it comes to State Forests and varied user groups. I forsee a very large "grace period" and a pontential for public outcry.
I don’t think it will do anything for DNR to stop closing gates or opening up gates.
I’ve talked with officers/rangers from all three agencies and they have been told that they will enforce it, and pretty tough. It’s already been said that there will be a grace period, and there always is for these things. Quite honestly I think public outcry is what we need for this thing. And I think its mainly going to be those hikers/bikers/park day use people that cause the most problem and raise the most hell about it, because hunter/fishers have been doing it and nothings been done.
Also, the way the law is written allows all three agencies to enforce the violation on each others land. So a Park Ranger can go to a WDFW launch and write a ticket, DNR can go into a State Park, etc. I don’t foresee WDFW and DNR doing this a whole lot because those agencies already have so much of their own land to police. However I would be very surprised if you don’t see state Park Rangers making the rounds at their local WDFW/DNR areas for the pass, especially in the times when their park isn’t as busy since their agency is getting most of the $ from the pass.
Post by: billythekidrock on May 28, 2011, 08:33:13 PM
I don't agree with this pass, but I will follow the rules. I just want to make sure everyone is following them. Might be worth a shot to call the Parkies and have them patrol high traffic DNR lands. I know DNR Enforcement is thin and tree poachers are a more high profile bust than a pass fine.
The thing that really bothers me is that I spend very little time on WDFW lands and only a day or two every few years on State Park lands. I am on DNR land weekly but they only get a portion of this pass.
I wish the agencies split the access fee or that the purchaser could designate which agencie they want the largest portion to support.
Post by: Jack Diamond on May 28, 2011, 09:03:23 PM
not to mention most of us go to get away from the B.S. now more LEO's will be checking everyone out,for crying out loud.
Park rangers checking WDFW lands,and DNR.
Hell most park rangers couldn't track a gutshot Mammoth after a snowstorm.