Post by: Dirty Mike on May 17, 2011, 01:17:58 PM
Post by: hunter-4-life on May 17, 2011, 02:07:18 PM
Post by: fair-chase on May 17, 2011, 02:20:05 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on May 17, 2011, 05:09:49 PM
just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
Post by: 400out on May 17, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on May 17, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Post by: Blsum on May 17, 2011, 08:21:41 PM
just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
Then why did you already tell me?
Post by: Bigtine96 on May 17, 2011, 08:40:49 PM
just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
x2 dont worry about it
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 18, 2011, 12:22:43 AM
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 18, 2011, 12:28:00 AM
Post by: Craig on May 18, 2011, 11:11:31 AM
Post by: iRem on May 18, 2011, 12:49:07 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on May 18, 2011, 01:04:51 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 18, 2011, 06:58:19 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on May 18, 2011, 07:46:59 PM
where's your since of humor. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :sry:just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
Then why did you already tell me?
Post by: MHWASH on May 18, 2011, 07:58:04 PM
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 18, 2011, 10:41:03 PM
Post by: Blsum on May 19, 2011, 08:39:15 AM
where's your since of humor. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :sry:just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
Then why did you already tell me?
Dude I was just messing with ya. Now that it's past the deadline you gonna tell everyone? :chuckle:
Post by: wapiti hunter2 on May 19, 2011, 04:18:35 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on May 19, 2011, 05:24:01 PM
NOPE!! If everybody really wants to know they can ask you. :chuckle:where's your since of humor. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. :sry:just seeing what muzzy permits everybody has put in for this yrnone of your business! :chuckle:
Then why did you already tell me?
Dude I was just messing with ya. Now that it's past the deadline you gonna tell everyone? :chuckle:
Post by: Lowedog on May 19, 2011, 05:28:08 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on May 19, 2011, 05:41:32 PM
I put in for 2 quality bull units and one quality buck unit. :)You going muzzy?
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 19, 2011, 06:02:12 PM
Post by: rotty33 on May 19, 2011, 09:01:37 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on May 19, 2011, 10:56:01 PM
Post by: Lowedog on May 20, 2011, 05:57:22 AM
I put in for 2 quality bull units and one quality buck unit. :)You going muzzy?
Yes. I also applied for a muzzy bull hunt but only have one point now in that category. I have 11 for quality bull though. I drew the multi for deer so I applied for a late archery quality buck tag as my other choice.
Post by: CP on May 20, 2011, 12:07:45 PM
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 20, 2011, 01:53:50 PM
Post by: piled-up on May 22, 2011, 07:51:35 PM
Post by: huntnnw on May 22, 2011, 11:11:49 PM
Post by: funkster on May 22, 2011, 11:40:43 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2011, 05:14:47 PM
Post by: huntnnw on May 23, 2011, 08:32:31 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2011, 08:37:56 PM
southeast corner.......16 points for quality elk. We'll see but not too confident, the same 3 tags last year went to guys with 6, 4, and 2, points. Nice draw system WDFW.
The reason people with relatively low numbers of points draw good hunts is because there are a lot more people in the draw with low points. The system is working just fine.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2011, 08:38:26 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 23, 2011, 08:42:46 PM
- Um No its not working just fine!southeast corner.......16 points for quality elk. We'll see but not too confident, the same 3 tags last year went to guys with 6, 4, and 2, points. Nice draw system WDFW.
The reason people with relatively low numbers of points draw good hunts is because there are a lot more people in the draw with low points. The system is working just fine.
Post by: grundy53 on May 23, 2011, 08:45:29 PM
southeast corner.......16 points for quality elk. We'll see but not too confident, the same 3 tags last year went to guys with 6, 4, and 2, points. Nice draw system WDFW.
The reason people with relatively low numbers of points draw good hunts is because there are a lot more people in the draw with low points. The system is working just fine.
:yeah:
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2011, 08:53:18 PM
Do you really think the system is working just fine when the only 3 tags offered in a quality elk unit all go to guys who have only that few of points when the rest of us have been waiting some 8 to 16 years? I know I don't have to apply for the tough tags but I think the guys who have put in for over a decade should atleast pull one or two of those tags. There has to be a better way to draw!southeast corner.......16 points for quality elk. We'll see but not too confident, the same 3 tags last year went to guys with 6, 4, and 2, points. Nice draw system WDFW.
The reason people with relatively low numbers of points draw good hunts is because there are a lot more people in the draw with low points. The system is working just fine.
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2011, 09:01:19 PM
Do you really think the system is working just fine when the only 3 tags offered in a quality elk unit all go to guys who have only that few of points when the rest of us have been waiting some 8 to 16 years? I know I don't have to apply for the tough tags but I think the guys who have put in for over a decade should atleast pull one or two of those tags. There has to be a better way to draw!
Yes I do. The only thing better would be no points at all.
Post by: Lowedog on May 23, 2011, 09:03:26 PM
Can't we at least wait till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2011, 09:04:33 PM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
Can't we at least till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
:yeah:
Post by: sled on May 24, 2011, 12:05:28 AM
Sorry but its not working at all! Ive got 9 points and not drawn, when my brotherinlaw has drawn 3 out of 5 years. Go figure.southeast corner.......16 points for quality elk. We'll see but not too confident, the same 3 tags last year went to guys with 6, 4, and 2, points. Nice draw system WDFW.
The reason people with relatively low numbers of points draw good hunts is because there are a lot more people in the draw with low points. The system is working just fine.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 05:19:43 AM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:I've waited 16 years, I would think that is long enough to have the right to start complaining don't you think?
Can't we at least wait till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 05:50:27 AM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:I've waited 16 years, I would think that is long enough to have the right to start complaining don't you think?
Can't we at least wait till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
No! Obviously you are applying for the toughest to draw hunts. It's like complaining that you can't win the lotto.
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 05:51:12 AM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:I've waited 16 years, I would think that is long enough to have the right to start complaining don't you think?
Can't we at least wait till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
No! Obviously you are applying for the toughest to draw hunts. It's like complaining that you can't win the lotto.
:yeah:
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 05:53:22 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 06:16:32 AM
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:I've waited 16 years, I would think that is long enough to have the right to start complaining don't you think?
Can't we at least wait till the draw is over to complain about how unfair it is?
Try dividing the number of applicants for a permit, by the number of permits. Apply for the one with the best odds. You will probably draw, with 16 points. If you're going for a hunt that has 1 permit and 4000 applicants, you very likely will never draw in your lifetime.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 06:35:27 AM
I just hope he gets drawn this year so he will shut up. Every thread that even hints at special permits he starts complaining.... :bash:Whatever, I doudt you have waited as long as some of us. Your missing my point anyway. I've done the math and seen the odds on the wdfw website, I'm just saying there has to be a better way.
Post by: jackmaster on May 24, 2011, 06:46:39 AM
there is a better way, go back to no points, this new draw ststem makes it tough on any tag you want to get, but there is no way the wdfw is gonna go back there is to much money to be had, i wouldnt mind seeing a couple of good quality units go to guys with 10 or more points though, i know of a guy that drew a blue tag and couldnt hack the terrain and gave up on the hunt, i wish they would list a little more info on some of those units so guys like that dont put in for themI just hope he gets drawn this year so he will shut up. Every thread that even hints at special permits he starts complaining.... :bash:Whatever, I doudt you have waited as long as some of us. Your missing my point anyway. I've done the math and seen the odds on the wdfw website, I'm just saying there has to be a better way.
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 07:48:57 AM
Whatever, I doudt you have waited as long as some of us. Your missing my point anyway. I've done the math and seen the odds on the wdfw website, I'm just saying there has to be a better way.Here is what my math shows. If Washington adopted a system whereby those with the most points draw, Dayton elk hunt #2006 would look like the following. This assumes that no one new enters the draw starting this year, and no one drops out. The first column shows bonus points, and the second column shows the numbers of years for all the applicants with that number of points to draw. For example, it will take 62 years for everyone who currently has 8 points to draw. There would be zero chance of drawing before 62 years if you have less than 8 points.
Points Years to draw
18 1
17 1
15 1
14 4
13 8
12 13
11 21
10 32
9 45
8 62
7 86
6 119
5 160
4 213
3 281
2 369
1 479
Post by: O_mykiss on May 24, 2011, 08:25:48 AM
I understand that its frustrating to not get drawn for 16 years or whatever, but I personally enjoy the possibility of getting a permit each year, as opposed to having to wait 20+ years to get enough points like in some states.
Post by: mebco09 on May 24, 2011, 09:04:47 AM
Here is what my math shows. If Washington adopted a system whereby those with the most points draw, Dayton elk hunt #2006 would look like the following. This assumes that no one new enters the draw starting this year, and no one drops out. The first column shows bonus points, and the second column shows the numbers of years for all the applicants with that number of points to draw. For example, it will take 62 years for everyone who currently has 8 points to draw. There would be zero chance of drawing before 62 years if you have less than 8 points.
I know it has been said before, but the better system is where a % of the tags go to the highest points applicants and the balance of the tags go to everyone else in a random drawing. That way those guys who have applied the longest at some point are "guaranteed", then everyone else has an equal chance of getting a tag relative to their points total. I think Arizona does it that way.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 12:36:41 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 12:45:25 PM
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 12:46:09 PM
:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 02:42:08 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 24, 2011, 02:50:00 PM
It keeps people playing the WDFW's game of "everybody has a chance."
Besides, it doesn't screw up my odds for drawing out of state with an influx off pissed of WA hunters who opt to take there money elsewhere.
Keep playing all. Thank You!!!
:chuckle:
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 03:40:03 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
Thats funny, I know guys with max points in oregon that cant draw an elk tag.... funny how that works. They wish the draws were like washington where they actually have a chance to draw.-If they have max points in Oregon They get a % of the tags so they will draw eventually and I really doubt they wish they had are system! Plus the Best tags in Oregon a first year applicant can draw it!! It would work for the guys with 1 point and the guys with 16 points! Sure you got the guys with 2 points that think they should have the same chance as us that have applied and not drawn for 20+ years! Those are the same guys that think they deserve top pay the first day on a job too im sure! :bash:
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 03:59:49 PM
-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:23:56 PM
I think we ahould have points for the lotto too, thats a good idea that way I can eventually win 8)
I would rather do away with points and be like new mexico where everyone has the same chance, makes sence to me.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
Post by: hogsniper on May 24, 2011, 04:31:43 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:33:58 PM
Id still feal the same even if I didnt draw my elk tag. My wife hasnt drawn yet and it is dissapointing every time but it is something to look forward to.At leat we know she will be hunting spikes in the blues positively :chuckle: For me it sucks because I know I will never draw again :chuckle: Come on Muley tag, I got a good feeling this year :drool:
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 04:34:45 PM
I hope those that are complaining don't get drawn again this year. You don't deserve to.
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:35:36 PM
Post by: JBar on May 24, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:42:12 PM
I wouldn't mind a system that increased the odds for those with over 10 or 12 points. Why couldn't they have a different multiplier for those over X amount of points instead of the standard squaring? It would increase the odds of those with the most points but still gives the rest a chance. :twocents:
How much better of a chacne do you want I mean 16 points squared is how much better than 12 squared? Its a better chance I think people should be happy with that.
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 04:45:28 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:48:20 PM
I'm looking to draw a bull tag with 1 this year. If I do I will be on here saying how great our draw is. :chuckle:
Your a brave individual :chuckle:
Post by: Woodchuck on May 24, 2011, 04:55:39 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 05:54:26 PM
Im in for the nook with 3 points , if I draw I will not say a thing because I will probably get a letter bomb in the mail from the guys with 16 :chuckle::chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 07:12:16 PM
:yeah: Thats the system I wish we had! Oregon's is like that!
The difference is that in Oregon, when you don't draw, you don't hunt. Here in Washington, you still have the general seasons to fall back on.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 07:44:04 PM
-Hell thats even better yet!:yeah: Thats the system I wish we had! Oregon's is like that!
The difference is that in Oregon, when you don't draw, you don't hunt. Here in Washington, you still have the general seasons to fall back on.
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 08:17:05 PM
-Hell thats even better yet!:yeah: Thats the system I wish we had! Oregon's is like that!
The difference is that in Oregon, when you don't draw, you don't hunt. Here in Washington, you still have the general seasons to fall back on.
I don't disagree- I'm just pointing out the facts. I like the way Oregon does things too. I've said many times on here I wish we could be like Oregon, with their permit only rifle hunting for mule deer, and with most elk hunting on the east side being permit only, except for archery. But for some reason people in this state think Oregon's system wouldn't work here. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 08:22:45 PM
I wouldn't mind a system that increased the odds for those with over 10 or 12 points. Why couldn't they have a different multiplier for those over X amount of points instead of the standard squaring? It would increase the odds of those with the most points but still gives the rest a chance. :twocents::dunno:
That's exactly what Washington has. Someone with 12 points has 44% more names in the hat than someone with 10. Someone with 10 points has 100 times more names in the hat than someone with one. Washington's system "increases the odds of those with the most points but still gives the rest a chance". In fact, it's one of very few states for which that statement is true.
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 08:26:45 PM
But for some reason people in this state think Oregon's system wouldn't work here. :dunno:Oregon has fewer people and more than twice as many elk.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 08:29:49 PM
- And your point is? :dunno:But for some reason people in this state think Oregon's system wouldn't work here. :dunno:Oregon has fewer people and more than twice as many elk.
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 08:31:49 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 08:33:47 PM
But for some reason people in this state think Oregon's system wouldn't work here. :dunno:Oregon has fewer people and more than twice as many elk.
Wouldn't that be more of a reason to go with more limited permit hunting, like Oregon has, and less unlimited numbers of tags and general season hunts like we have here? At least that way the fish & wildlife department has some control over the number of animals taken out of each unit, each year. Rather than just leaving it up to random chance like they do here.
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 08:34:48 PM
My point is that applicants with the most elk points in Oregon usually top out at 8 to 10. In Washington there are far more applicants with more than 10 points, so offering permits to only those with the most points would not work here as well.
If there were no general seasons, people wouldn't be building up that many points.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 08:35:34 PM
My point is that applicants with the most elk points in Oregon usually top out at 8 to 10. In Washington there are far more applicants with more than 10 points, so offering permits to only those with the most points would not work here as well.*censored* if it wouldnt!
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 08:35:55 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 08:38:02 PM
My point is that applicants with the most elk points in Oregon usually top out at 8 to 10. In Washington there are far more applicants with more than 10 points, so offering permits to only those with the most points would not work here as well.Bull*censored* if it wouldnt!
So you like waiting this number of years to draw a quality tag, with no chance of drawing before? To each his own.
Points Years to draw
18 1
17 1
15 1
14 4
13 8
12 13
11 21
10 32
9 45
8 62
7 86
6 119
5 160
4 213
3 281
2 369
1 479
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 08:41:59 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 08:43:11 PM
I think we've got two topics going: (1) should Washington go to "permit only", and (2) is Oregon's system of awarding permits only to those with the most points better than Washington's? I was commenting on (2).
You're right, with the small number of permits we have here, and the high number of applicants, going to a preference point system would not work. (at least not to my satisfaction)
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 08:45:07 PM
With there system they dont have the premier tags being drawn with 2,3,5 point etc! The top of the points guys get drawn and it cycles through! Alot better system then ours!
so instead of waiting 15 years with a possibility of being drawn before that you would rather wait 15 years with NO possibility of drawing before that? That makes a lot of sense...... :bash:
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 08:46:03 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 08:46:50 PM
You can draw any tag there your first year applying guy!With there system they dont have the premier tags being drawn with 2,3,5 point etc! The top of the points guys get drawn and it cycles through! Alot better system then ours!
so instead of waiting 15 years with a possibility of being drawn before that you would rather wait 15 years with NO possibility of drawing before that? That makes a lot of sense...... :bash:
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 08:53:12 PM
I would rather do away with points and be like new mexico where everyone has the same chance, makes sence to me.So you agree with us then?
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 08:56:26 PM
:yeah: :yeah:You said what I was thinking Scookum.-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 09:01:32 PM
-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Nope, been putting in for years. So tell me exactly why your $6.50 is worth more then mine?
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 09:04:59 PM
- Right..like what 3?? maybe 5?? try 20+, thats why!-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Nope, been putting in for years. So tell me exactly why your $6.50 is worth more then mine?
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:14:56 PM
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 09:16:51 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:18:57 PM
Applying for the hardest to draw tags for years somehow makes you deserve one of those hunts more than a 20 year old who just started applying? So by your theory does a guy who buys 1000 raffle tickets for one of the raffle hunts deserve to win that hunt more than a guy who buys one?Duh, yeah.
Post by: grundy53 on May 24, 2011, 09:19:32 PM
- Right..like what 3?? maybe 5?? try 20+, thats why!-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Nope, been putting in for years. So tell me exactly why your $6.50 is worth more then mine?
nope just 9. But even if this was my first year my $6.50 is worth exactly the same as yours. You are compensated every year that you don't draw with a point. So all those people with 2 points only have 4 names in the hat whereas you with 16 points have 256 names in the hat. That your advantage. If you want better odds of drawing quit freakin applying for the premier hunts. I've heard less whining from a kindergarden class before nap time....
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 24, 2011, 09:20:11 PM
No biggie.
I bitch and complain every year, well no more. You are not going to change the system.
DEAL WITH IT!!!
I could care less if i draw. I want my son to draw something. And with our system he has a chance. If he draws a tag great if not we will still hunt. But i love the fact that he has a chance to draw a special permit.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 09:20:42 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
Your getting to be as good a whiner as me..... :chuckle:- Right..like what 3?? maybe 5?? try 20+, thats why!-Hellyeah I think my 6.50 is more valuable then yours! Im Just going to take a wild guess that your one of the 2 or 3 points guys..:yeah: now someone is making sense.
Not really. What makes your $6.50 more valuable then mine? If you want a better shot of drawing put in for a permit that has a higher odds of drawing or quit whining. Next you will be saying we need to change how they do power ball because its not fair that you haven't drawn it yet. Why are you surprised you haven't drawn yet when you put in for the most heavily sought after tags? It's freakin common sense if everyone wants the same tag and there is only three to go around your probably not going to get it. If you do its PURE LUCK!
Nope, been putting in for years. So tell me exactly why your $6.50 is worth more then mine?
nope just 9. But even if this was my first year my $6.50 is worth exactly the same as yours. You are compensated every year that you don't draw with a point. So all those people with 2 points only have 4 names in the hat whereas you with 16 points have 256 names in the hat. That your advantage. If you want better odds of drawing quit freakin applying for the premier hunts. I've heard less whining from a kindergarden class before nap time....
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 09:24:08 PM
You are not going to change the system.:yeah:
DEAL WITH IT!!!
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 09:24:52 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQ8siZeg8ZGP-ByIuwtPEPG9hrNFmm0zBg5ULIhDNHfmE-7C1x8Xg&hash=f1c81d7c4cdf8baff1a11cd29bcc83d2b862c4c2)
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:24:56 PM
-No poacher points, Ive applyed For a Bull tag since i was 9 and have never drawn. I have 16points but this will be actually my 21st year applying for a bull tag! Ohwell I have a feeling this is the year! :chuckle:Your twenty five ish? I was 25 the last time I drew a special permit and now I'm 41. I think it's you lucky year!!! I wish you good luck.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
Keep it up guys! We will pick a winner here soon.Pick me!!!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQ8siZeg8ZGP-ByIuwtPEPG9hrNFmm0zBg5ULIhDNHfmE-7C1x8Xg&hash=f1c81d7c4cdf8baff1a11cd29bcc83d2b862c4c2)
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 09:31:17 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:32:28 PM
Bob, if you are involved with something that is important to you and it's not something you agree with do you just keep your mouth shut? I talk to my daughter about changing things when she doesn't feel something is right, not just to sit on her ass and take it. I feel this system could be changed for the better and in a way that would benefit all of us. Do I have the answer? Probably not, but atleast I'm willing to listen to other options. JMOYou are not going to change the system.:yeah:
DEAL WITH IT!!!
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 09:34:50 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:38:02 PM
Trophyhunt: go for it. Good luck. The system could use some change.You agree that the system could use some change?? That's all I'm saying.... or crying about.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 09:40:44 PM
Post by: elkslayer069 on May 24, 2011, 09:43:09 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:47:24 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 24, 2011, 09:47:50 PM
I do think the system could use some changes. It's not perfect. I don't think any system is perfect, however. Washington simply has too many hunters and too few quality deer/elk. No system will easily solve that without some backlash. If we adopt a system of giving permits to those with the most points, it will work for a few years until the hundreds of applicants with 8 or 9 points become "those with the most" and vie for 10 or 15 permits. Then the system breaks down. New applicants would never draw in their lifetimes. Washington could go permit only. That would make hunting better for everyone with permits, but make hunting an "every other year" affair. That' s not very appealing to me: I want to hunt every year.Trophyhunt: go for it. Good luck. The system could use some change.You agree that the system could use some change?? That's all I'm saying.... or crying about.
What I think Washington should do is become more aggressive at predator control, which would increase huntable animal populations, which could lead to more permits, which could lead to shorter wait times to draw. The state has made bear and cougar hunting very difficult, and now wants to bring in wolves. Go figure.
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 24, 2011, 09:51:18 PM
16 years ago for the system with points but before that your guess is as good as mine. Good question.- Before 96 there was no point system at all. If you applied for a special hunt, you couldnt hunt for 3days after the opener, actually it might have been 5 days after the opener! I wish they would bring that back!
Post by: trophyhunt on May 24, 2011, 09:54:25 PM
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 10:00:11 PM
16 years ago for the system with points but before that your guess is as good as mine. Good question.- Before 96 there was no point system at all. If you applied for a special hunt, you couldnt hunt for 3days after the opener, actually it might have been 5 days after the opener! I wish they would bring that back!
Also for some hunts you couldn't apply again for 2 seasons if I remember right.
Post by: elkslayer069 on May 24, 2011, 10:02:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 10:32:48 PM
So tell me if im wrong its getting close to my bed time and im getting tired. By the state giving out incentive points for turning poachers they have esentaly thrown the system outta balance by allowing people to accumulate more than 16 points. :dunno:
I don't think there's enough people that get "poacher" points to make much of a difference overall.
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 10:38:39 PM
Post by: elkslayer069 on May 24, 2011, 10:44:18 PM
The "change" that is needed to make the system better, is to go back to how it was in 2009! :bash::yeah:
Im not making any suggestions how to change the system just asking a couple of questions, washington is the only state ive hunted in or put in for permits. I am how ever feeling every ones pain with the 11 points that i have in everything but deer. :bash:
Post by: Lowedog on May 24, 2011, 10:57:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 24, 2011, 11:16:05 PM
24,040 applicants for 563 bull tags in 2010. :dunno:
OK, well using those numbers, odds come out to about 1 in 42. So that means, on average, a person should expect to draw once every 42 years.
Post by: huntnnw on May 25, 2011, 12:06:47 AM
I do think the system could use some changes. It's not perfect. I don't think any system is perfect, however. Washington simply has too many hunters and too few quality deer/elk. No system will easily solve that without some backlash. If we adopt a system of giving permits to those with the most points, it will work for a few years until the hundreds of applicants with 8 or 9 points become "those with the most" and vie for 10 or 15 permits. Then the system breaks down. New applicants would never draw in their lifetimes. Washington could go permit only. That would make hunting better for everyone with permits, but make hunting an "every other year" affair. That' s not very appealing to me: I want to hunt every year.
What I think Washington should do is become more aggressive at predator control, which would increase huntable animal populations, which could lead to more permits, which could lead to shorter wait times to draw. The state has made bear and cougar hunting very difficult, and now wants to bring in wolves. Go figure.
Boom....we have a winner! exactly why we dont have a % to highest point holders..it breaks down after a few years..next thing you know everyone has 10 pts in it..there is simply to few opportunity's in this state with the population.
That's great trophy hunt stay on that side and better my odds over here
Post by: rtspring on May 25, 2011, 12:54:31 AM
I want to hunt deer and elk every year. No way would I ever be a part of permit only.
As for the numbers and your odds. You need to be lucky thats all their is to it....
good luck everyone on the draw....
Post by: Curly on May 25, 2011, 07:53:42 AM
Trophyhunt: go for it. Good luck. The system could use some change.You agree that the system could use some change?? That's all I'm saying.... or crying about.
The system definitely could use some change. But I'm afraid that the reason we have the crappy system they implemented last year is because of the whiners complaining about never getting drawn and WDFW tried to "fix" that problem by coming up with this crappy category bullsh#* and made a bigger mess out of things. While trying to appease a few whiners, they saw a way to make a bunch of money off of hunters and came up with categories for everything they could think of.
Instead of fixing the problem by eliminating the point system altogether or at least 1) reducing the number of hunt choices and 2) increasing the price of an application, they came up with this category system that didn't fix the problem of some guys almost never getting drawn.......it actually made the odds worse for those guys trying for the premier hunts and made the odds worse for the guys trying for cow or doe permits. :bash: (But it is making WDFW more money, so I guess it is a success according to Dave Ware.) >:(
Post by: bucklucky on May 25, 2011, 08:03:14 AM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 25, 2011, 08:09:07 AM
Post by: bucklucky on May 25, 2011, 08:48:11 AM
Post by: jackmaster on May 25, 2011, 12:17:10 PM
-what about adding the cant hunt for 3 days rule back! A ton of people wouldnt apply if that rule was re emplimented! Plus up the cost for quality hunts apps! those 2 things would help big time in draw odds i bet!what is the 3 day cant hunt thing, i have hunted here my whole life and have never heard of it
Post by: bucklucky on May 25, 2011, 12:22:45 PM
-what about adding the cant hunt for 3 days rule back! A ton of people wouldnt apply if that rule was re emplimented! Plus up the cost for quality hunts apps! those 2 things would help big time in draw odds i bet!what is the 3 day cant hunt thing, i have hunted here my whole life and have never heard of it
It was if you put in for special permits you lost 3 days of hunting. That was back in the 90's and earlier If I remember right, maybee early 90's and earlier.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 25, 2011, 12:42:07 PM
[/quote] :yeah: They lied about doing it to make the odds better of drawing, if not they would see the results have not worked and they would do something about it.
Post by: jackmaster on May 25, 2011, 12:56:04 PM
Post by: fair-chase on May 25, 2011, 01:28:02 PM
-what about adding the cant hunt for 3 days rule back! A ton of people wouldnt apply if that rule was re emplimented!
Your darn right I wouldn't apply if that was the case. So my reward for applying and sending WDFW more money would be to get a 4 day elk season for muzzy. I think the 7 day season we have now is too short. No thanks.
Post by: bucklucky on May 25, 2011, 01:55:34 PM
Post by: GoldTip on May 25, 2011, 02:48:38 PM
ok so do this, make it to where you can only put in for one unit per animal, you can still have points this way and it would thin everyone out, dont give anyone the option of picking a 2nd 3rd or 4th choice. they could still keep all the extra categorys that way the wdfw doesnt have to lose money, but you have to limit the amount of choices people can put in for, problem solved oh and raising permits to 180 dollars is crazy talk this isnt suppose to be just for the people that are well off financially :twocents:
Unless the "premium" tag is right out your back door. A $180 tag fee would be the cheapest expenditure of a premium hunt. I live in Spokane, in 2009 I drew a Moose tag for the Selkirk unit. I had spent well over $300 in gas alone by August of 2009 just on gas going to scout the unit, and I probably made another 2 or 3 trips before season. I live in the Hangman unit and I would probably still spend $180 on gas for scouting the unit prior to season if my wife were to draw.
That being said, I think $180 is excessive for the deer and elk tags, but I think they should be $75, and if the proposal for Moose, Sheep and Goat goes through to change them to $300, I'll be happy as hell.
Post by: Lowedog on May 25, 2011, 04:27:22 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 25, 2011, 04:51:00 PM
And yes, there also used to be a 2 year application wait on cow tags. Get drawn, wait 1 or 2 years to apply again. Again, in the early 80's and Eastern.
I believe all this went away sometime near the time it went to spike only, but I certainly could be wrong here.
Post by: Lowedog on May 25, 2011, 05:02:15 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 25, 2011, 08:14:51 PM
I have never heard of this 3 day rule either and I have been applying for special permits since the early 90's.-You must not have applied then becouse thats the way it was! From 91 till 96 if you applied for special Elk permits you couldnt hunt till wednesday.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 25, 2011, 08:17:36 PM
If you drew you got to hunt your permit season.
And ifyou drew you had to wait 2 years to apply again.
I wish we had that back. No points and so much easier to draw a tag.
Post by: Lowedog on May 25, 2011, 08:20:18 PM
I have never heard of this 3 day rule either and I have been applying for special permits since the early 90's.-You must not have applied then becouse thats the way it was! From 91 till 96 if you applied for special Elk permits you couldnt hunt till wednesday.
I must have been breaking the law then cuz I applied for tags and hunted general season from day one when not drawn. You sure you don't mean that if you drew a tag your hunt didn't start until a couple days after the general opener?
Maybe it was a west side thing? :dunno:
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 25, 2011, 08:27:38 PM
Post by: Lowedog on May 25, 2011, 08:37:47 PM
Post by: B.G.hunter on May 25, 2011, 08:43:30 PM
prior to 1996 if you applied for permits you had to wait to Wednesday after the hunt started to hunt.
If you drew you got to hunt your permit season.
And if you drew you had to wait 2 years to apply again.
I wish we had that back. No points and so much easier to draw a tag.
Also pre '96 you had to choose between 5 areas in the state. which I believe the eastside should be again it should be split into the Northeast, Yakima, and Blue mountains. This would improve the drawing odds if those who wanted to hunt general season bulls in the Northeast they could not apply for permits in the blues or yakima areas.
Post by: Kowsrule30 on May 27, 2011, 02:58:17 AM
prior to 1996 if you applied for permits you had to wait to Wednesday after the hunt started to hunt.
If you drew you got to hunt your permit season.
And if you drew you had to wait 2 years to apply again.
I wish we had that back. No points and so much easier to draw a tag.
X100 ;)
Also pre '96 you had to choose between 5 areas in the state. which I believe the eastside should be again it should be split into the Northeast, Yakima, and Blue mountains. This would improve the drawing odds if those who wanted to hunt general season bulls in the Northeast they could not apply for permits in the blues or yakima areas.
Post by: Curly on May 27, 2011, 08:16:07 AM
That is why I don't remember it then. I have never hunted the west side. My bad.
Pretty sure it was that way for east side too.
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 27, 2011, 08:51:07 AM
Pretty sure it was that way for east side too.
Yup!
Post by: Lowedog on May 27, 2011, 05:01:31 PM
That is why I don't remember it then. I have never hunted the west side. My bad.
Pretty sure it was that way for east side too.
I don't think so. There is a possibility that I am wrong though. It has happened once before.
Post by: bobcat on May 27, 2011, 05:11:52 PM
That is why I don't remember it then. I have never hunted the west side. My bad.
Pretty sure it was that way for east side too.
I don't think so. There is a possibility that I am wrong though. It has happened once before.
If I get a chance this weekend I'll dig out some of the old regulations and check it out. I do believe people who applied for a cow elk permit could not hunt until the Wednesday after the general bull elk season opened, on Saturday. And I'm thinking of the east side. I'm not even sure about the Westside, because back then I didn't pay much attention the westside elk hunting.
Post by: Lowedog on May 27, 2011, 05:21:12 PM
That is why I don't remember it then. I have never hunted the west side. My bad.
Pretty sure it was that way for east side too.
I guess I never applied for an elk tag until spike only and those were only for branched bull tags. I guess this makes the 2nd time I'm wrong. :chuckle:
I don't think so. There is a possibility that I am wrong though. It has happened once before.
If I get a chance this weekend I'll dig out some of the old regulations and check it out. I do believe people who applied for a cow elk permit could not hunt until the Wednesday after the general bull elk season opened, on Saturday. And I'm thinking of the east side. I'm not even sure about the Westside, because back then I didn't pay much attention the westside elk hunting.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 07, 2011, 05:20:39 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 07, 2011, 05:35:03 AM
Post by: grundy53 on June 07, 2011, 05:39:47 AM
What is this feeling based on?
Indigestion... :chuckle:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 07, 2011, 05:43:23 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 06:14:05 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 07, 2011, 06:32:54 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 07, 2011, 06:35:15 AM
Post by: teanawayslayer on June 07, 2011, 05:32:58 PM
I don't recall anyone guessing the 7th, but lots of people are guessing the 17th. I think this Friday, the 10th, is possible too. If they do it in the same time as last year, it will be the 10th.:yeah:
Post by: huntnnw on June 07, 2011, 07:35:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 07:49:35 PM
Post by: seth30 on June 07, 2011, 08:11:32 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 08:34:44 PM
Post by: seth30 on June 07, 2011, 08:37:00 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on June 07, 2011, 08:44:14 PM
That's what I'm thinking.
I hope you are right.
Post by: huntnnw on June 07, 2011, 11:15:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:16:49 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on June 07, 2011, 11:24:16 PM
Three more days and we will find out!
Please tell me you have inside information, and this isn't just a gut feeling . :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:46:44 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 07, 2011, 11:49:28 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:50:05 PM
So yeah, I'm only going by how long it took to get results last year. I DO NOT have any inside information. Heck, I don't even think anybody on the inside knows when it will happen.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 07, 2011, 11:51:48 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on June 07, 2011, 11:53:23 PM
I agree bobcat. I would think it would be easy for them this year. You just have to remember who we are talking about here :chuckle:
:yeah:
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:59:52 PM
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=349965 (http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=349965)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 08, 2011, 12:04:35 AM