Post by: huntnfmly on June 25, 2011, 02:35:56 PM
Thanks
Jim
Post by: KFhunter on June 26, 2011, 01:21:18 AM
nor would I end the training session
my advice is get rid of the ecollar all together, get some training material and follow a program or something.
ecollars require conditioning and perfect timing, not only that but conditioing for each new training thing your working on.
you can't just put it on the dog and start punching the god button
Post by: huntnfmly on June 26, 2011, 10:49:36 AM
Post by: Wayne1 on June 26, 2011, 11:00:37 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2011, 12:02:15 AM
I got a heal stick I'm going try out, be nice for moving her around with without bending over or physically moving her rear over. I can stimulate her collar and she'll crown my legs, but she might not know that I'm zapping her because she's not at the right side, or her rear is facing wrong...a stick might help that. (not to swat her it, just position)
I've seen Wayne1 heal his dog, he's got it down pat. Garage might be a great place to work some heal I'm going to use that advice too.
asking advice on the interweb is tough, because folks have no idea what you've done only what you type, and read it literally. So when I read your zapping your dog when he sees a bird I'm like whoa
Post by: huntnfmly on June 27, 2011, 11:17:44 AM
I'm working on heal too for my brittany, she knows to crowd my leg, but I hadn't ever really worked it solid so she always come to the right side, relocates when I turn 90 degrees and such.point taken it is hard to type what you mean.Thats why i was asking about nicking him with that distraction i had just been tugging on his choke collar to get him back and didnt really think it would be good to nick him with that distraction.I have heard some about that heel stick how is that working for you?
I got a heal stick I'm going try out, be nice for moving her around with without bending over or physically moving her rear over. I can stimulate her collar and she'll crown my legs, but she might not know that I'm zapping her because she's not at the right side, or her rear is facing wrong...a stick might help that. (not to swat her it, just position)
I've seen Wayne1 heal his dog, he's got it down pat. Garage might be a great place to work some heal I'm going to use that advice too.
asking advice on the interweb is tough, because folks have no idea what you've done only what you type, and read it literally. So when I read your zapping your dog when he sees a bird I'm like whoa
Post by: Wayne1 on June 27, 2011, 12:14:56 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on June 27, 2011, 01:27:34 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2011, 11:56:26 PM
For focus, you gotta watch that dog and read its body language close. once at a heal you'll see the head go down or turn to the side then its time for correction as you've already lost their attention. At 13 months I wouldn't use a ton of pressure but certinatly a mild correction. If you see the head wander then try an abrupt course change then when they respond too slow correct, you'll see the frustration in the dog as they'll hop on their front feet, sit or do something to appease you.
I'm no expert, just having fun training this Brittany. I grew up with labs and love them too but the wife wanted a smaller dog that sheds less. I haven't hunted ducks for a long time cause I haven't figured out how to eat the things :chuckle:
grouse I love!
but I tell ya, this brittany is night and day different to train than my old labs. I could really pressure a lab and they'd just keep on going and going and beg for more.
This Britt will flop on her back, tuck her tail and do everything she can to shrink away. She don't fool me, she's a big faker lol
different approachs, its been a steep learning curve - but rewarding
Post by: huntnfmly on June 28, 2011, 01:58:42 PM
Post by: AWS on June 29, 2011, 01:41:09 PM
She did go on to win the upland hunting competition at the AWS National Specialty and was still retrieving ducks and putting up pheasants at 14yrs.
I teach my dogs a "Leave It" comand when I want them to ignor something, works well for porcupines, skunks and chickens.
The only time I used an E-collar was to reinforce the recall comand. You shouldn't have to use a e-collar to reinforce basic obediance.
AWS
Post by: huntnfmly on June 29, 2011, 05:57:00 PM
I had an AWS that was so focused on birds it was unreal. I couldn't show her at any outdoor shows for fear crow might fly over the ring. At an obediance trial when she was just a pup a radio controled glider flew over, she broke and led me all over the park trying to get her befor the glider came down and I would not only get bumped at the trial but have to pay for a destroyed glider.:chuckle:
AWS
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 08, 2011, 07:51:10 AM
Post by: huntnfmly on July 08, 2011, 09:20:33 AM
:yeah:Thanks guys thats what i was thinking.He is doing alot better i just have been useing the heel command for those situation he has the obediance commands down good in the yard and i am adding distractions now i dont feel he really knows them until hes got them down with distractions.Thanks again for your inputsLive birds. Lots of them is the best solution. Your dog is interested in tweety's because it hasn't had enough game birds. I wouldn't nick a dog for that. Work on obedience and use indirect pressure for those types of corrections. "heal" would be fine. Direct pressure is stimulation for the action in this case. Indirect pressure would basically be using a different command to dis-associate the undesirable action you are noticing with the dog. Using indirect pressure will give you better results for problems than direct pressure. Nicking = Nagging. Don't nag your dog. Pressure must be well defined and the dog must understand why you are applying it. nicking a dog for looking at tweety birds will not do anything other than mess him up. Maturity and experience will alleviate concentration issues with other happenings in pups surroundings.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 08, 2011, 12:28:24 PM
If you correct a dog that doesn't understand what you want, you end up with a confused mess. Pup is only a year old. It should be expected and encouraged to watch birds, tweety's, crows etc. It will learn with time and EXPOSURE the intended purpose of eyes and a nose.
Put the collar away.
Post by: huntnfmly on July 08, 2011, 12:55:17 PM
Why do you feel i should put the collar away?I am useing the collar now to renforce the commands he already knows is that not the correct way?That is how i was advised to use it.He was collar cond.and knows how to turn the collar off.I did not even buy one until he knew the commands.I know you have been doing it alot longer than myself so i do apreciate the advice and input
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 09, 2011, 09:20:44 AM
Happy,
Why do you feel i should put the collar away?I am useing the collar now to renforce the commands he already knows is that not the correct way?That is how i was advised to use it.He was collar cond.and knows how to turn the collar off.I did not even buy one until he knew the commands.I know you have been doing it alot longer than myself so i do apreciate the advice and input
You shouldn't need to reinforce basic commands such as heal with a collar in my mind. Back up and work obedience on lead versus using corrections via e-collar. Later in training when there is more going on around you and dog, you can use the e-collar corrections more effectively for indirect pressure corrections on things such as breaking the dog to shot. I personally, (many disagree) don't use e-collar for basic obedience except when collar conditioning the dog. At a year old, my opinion is the dog should just be learning about collar conditioning not getting corrections as part of training. That is my opinion only not any type of rule. that is why I said put the collar away.
What commands are you confident the dog knows 100%? Heal, whoa? At a year old I don't think using the collar alot on either is a good idea. Certainly not using it for a correction when the dogs attention span slips a bit. That is just a sign of immaturity and maybe a little boredom in training.
Post by: huntnfmly on July 09, 2011, 12:38:25 PM
hey happyHappy,
Why do you feel i should put the collar away?I am useing the collar now to renforce the commands he already knows is that not the correct way?That is how i was advised to use it.He was collar cond.and knows how to turn the collar off.I did not even buy one until he knew the commands.I know you have been doing it alot longer than myself so i do apreciate the advice and input
You shouldn't need to reinforce basic commands such as heal with a collar in my mind. Back up and work obedience on lead versus using corrections via e-collar. Later in training when there is more going on around you and dog, you can use the e-collar corrections more effectively for indirect pressure corrections on things such as breaking the dog to shot. I personally, (many disagree) don't use e-collar for basic obedience except when collar conditioning the dog. At a year old, my opinion is the dog should just be learning about collar conditioning not getting corrections as part of training. That is my opinion only not any type of rule. that is why I said put the collar away.
What commands are you confident the dog knows 100%? Heal, whoa? At a year old I don't think using the collar alot on either is a good idea. Certainly not using it for a correction when the dogs attention span slips a bit. That is just a sign of immaturity and maybe a little boredom in training.
Thanks for your reply again.I am confident he knows here/sit-stay/heal kennel 100% without alot of distraction so iam slowly adding that and he is doing better with distraction.I started off on a lead with pressure on/pressure off with these commands until he had them down without any pressure then i put on e-collar without turning it on and continued with pressure on pressure off for about two weeks for him to get use to e-collar being on then i used the ecollar with lead pressure on and off.He learned he could turn of the ecollar as well and now i only have to nick him every once in awhile.his attention slipping abit sometimes do to immaturity and boredom is a good point so i try to shorten up some training time but i always end on a good note.Thanks again i am sure this conversation helps others as well as me.I would also like to get him to sit at a distance do you have any drills that have worked
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 10, 2011, 08:07:21 AM