nicking away prey instinct?

[huntnfmly]

Hey everybody looking for your thoughts.I have a 13mth old male springer i have been working with he has basic commands down.I have been working on closing up his heel and it is going great exept when a bird lands in yard or tree and grabs his attention am i taking away his hunt drive if i am nicking him with e collar while he is concentrating on the bird.Or should i end the traing session for awhile.
Thanks
Jim

[KFhunter]

I wouldn't zap a bird dog for looking at a bird and getting distracted
nor would I end the training session


my advice is get rid of the ecollar all together, get some training material and follow a program or something. 
ecollars require conditioning and perfect timing, not only that but conditioing for each new training thing your working on. 
you can't just put it on the dog and start punching the god button

[huntnfmly]

kfhunter thanks for your opinion.However i did condition my dog to the ecollar and i am just using it to re-enfirce the commands that he already knows and i did not just start pushing buttons.I have done alot of basic training with him/alot of research and talked to a few profesinal dog trainers and made sure he knew the commands before i even bought a ecollar as i am sure you know you can not just start stim on a dog that has no clue it just confuses them a ecollar does not teach the command but helps re-enforce it thanks for your input i appreciate it

[Wayne1]

If your just working on his healing...Move the training in the garage, or basement, or somewhere he's not going to be interuped by distractions.

[KFhunter]

I'm working on heal too for my brittany,  she knows to crowd my leg,  but I hadn't ever really worked it solid so she always come to the right side, relocates when I turn 90 degrees and such. 

I got a heal stick I'm going try out, be nice for moving her around with without bending over or physically moving her rear over. I can stimulate her collar and she'll crown my legs, but she might not know that I'm zapping her because she's not at the right side, or her rear is facing wrong...a stick might help that. (not to swat her it, just position)


I've seen Wayne1 heal his dog, he's got it down pat.   Garage might be a great place to work some heal I'm going to use that advice too.


asking advice on the interweb is tough, because folks have no idea what you've done only what you type, and read it literally.  So when I read your zapping your dog when he sees a bird I'm like whoa

[huntnfmly]

I'm working on heal too for my brittany,  she knows to crowd my leg,  but I hadn't ever really worked it solid so she always come to the right side, relocates when I turn 90 degrees and such. 

I got a heal stick I'm going try out, be nice for moving her around with without bending over or physically moving her rear over. I can stimulate her collar and she'll crown my legs, but she might not know that I'm zapping her because she's not at the right side, or her rear is facing wrong...a stick might help that. (not to swat her it, just position)


I've seen Wayne1 heal his dog, he's got it down pat.   Garage might be a great place to work some heal I'm going to use that advice too.


asking advice on the interweb is tough, because folks have no idea what you've done only what you type, and read it literally.  So when I read your zapping your dog when he sees a bird I'm like whoa

point taken it is hard to type what you mean.Thats why i was asking about nicking him with that distraction i had just been tugging on his choke collar to get him back and didnt really think it would be good to nick him with that distraction.I have heard some about that heel stick how is that working for you?

[Wayne1]

In training my dogs to sit or whoo on sit to flush and shot, it's never taken away the desire for birds when I've had to nick them for movement,....   also when shore breaking while on coming back with a water retrieve, with a duck in thier mouth, have never stopped them from picking up a duck. I think If I was doing yard work with my dog and he became distracted by birds in the yard...  I'd just tell them  "No Bird....Leave it"...  and continue with my taining. They have to learn that your the boss...  they don't control the action.

[huntnfmly]

Thanks wayne1 for the advise.KFhunter are you working off leash?

[KFhunter]

Haven't had a chance to use the stick yet, I'm sure it'll work great though.  I have her off leash healing, but right now her heal is more of a hug my knee follow than a true heal.  I'll put her back on leash to firm up the positioning.   

For focus, you gotta watch that dog and read its body language close.  once at a heal you'll see the head go down or turn to the side then its time for correction as you've already lost their attention.  At 13 months I wouldn't use a ton of pressure but certinatly a mild correction.  If you see the head wander then try an abrupt course change then when they respond too slow correct, you'll see the frustration in the dog as they'll hop on their front feet, sit or do something to appease you.

I'm no expert, just having fun training this Brittany.  I grew up with labs and love them too but the wife wanted a smaller dog that sheds less.  I haven't hunted ducks for a long time cause I haven't figured out how to eat the things 
grouse I love!

but I tell ya, this brittany is night and day different to train than my old labs.  I could really pressure a lab and they'd just keep on going and going and beg for more.
This Britt will flop on her back, tuck her tail and do everything she can to shrink away.  She don't fool me, she's a big faker lol

different approachs, its been a steep learning curve - but rewarding

[huntnfmly]

I am no expert either but i do enjoy the training and watching the dog learn and understand what you are teaching it.My springer is also a big faker.But he is coming along great

[AWS]

I had an AWS that was so focused on birds it was unreal.  I couldn't show her at any outdoor shows for fear crow might fly over the ring.  At an obediance trial when she was just a pup a radio controled glider flew over, she broke and led me all over the park trying to get her befor the glider came down and I would not only get bumped at the trial but have to pay for a destroyed glider.

She did go on to win the upland hunting competition at the AWS National Specialty and was still retrieving ducks and putting up pheasants at 14yrs.

I teach my dogs a "Leave It" comand when I want them to ignor something, works well for porcupines, skunks and chickens.

The only time I used an E-collar was to reinforce the recall comand.  You shouldn't have to use a e-collar to reinforce basic obediance.

AWS

[huntnfmly]

I had an AWS that was so focused on birds it was unreal.  I couldn't show her at any outdoor shows for fear crow might fly over the ring.  At an obediance trial when she was just a pup a radio controled glider flew over, she broke and led me all over the park trying to get her befor the glider came down and I would not only get bumped at the trial but have to pay for a destroyed glider.


AWS

[Happy Gilmore]

Live birds. Lots of them is the best solution. Your dog is interested in tweety's because it hasn't had enough game birds. I wouldn't nick a dog for that. Work on obedience and use indirect pressure for those types of corrections. "heal" would be fine. Direct pressure is stimulation for the action in this case. Indirect pressure would basically be using a different command to dis-associate the undesirable action you are noticing with the dog. Using indirect pressure will give you better results for problems than direct pressure. Nicking = Nagging. Don't nag your dog. Pressure must be well defined and the dog must understand why you are applying it. nicking a dog for looking at tweety birds will not do anything other than mess him up. Maturity and experience will alleviate concentration issues with other happenings in pups surroundings.

[huntnfmly]

Live birds. Lots of them is the best solution. Your dog is interested in tweety's because it hasn't had enough game birds. I wouldn't nick a dog for that. Work on obedience and use indirect pressure for those types of corrections. "heal" would be fine. Direct pressure is stimulation for the action in this case. Indirect pressure would basically be using a different command to dis-associate the undesirable action you are noticing with the dog. Using indirect pressure will give you better results for problems than direct pressure. Nicking = Nagging. Don't nag your dog. Pressure must be well defined and the dog must understand why you are applying it. nicking a dog for looking at tweety birds will not do anything other than mess him up. Maturity and experience will alleviate concentration issues with other happenings in pups surroundings.

Thanks guys thats what i was thinking.He is doing alot better i just have been useing the heel command for those situation he has the obediance commands down good in the yard and i am adding distractions now i dont feel he really knows them until hes got them down with distractions.Thanks again for your inputs
 

[Happy Gilmore]

This goes for any type of dog training. Do not correct a dog for something which YOU have not thoughrouly taught, explained and proven to you and the dog that they know what and why you are doing something.

If you correct a dog that doesn't understand what you want, you end up with a confused mess. Pup is only a year old. It should be expected and encouraged to watch birds, tweety's, crows etc. It will learn with time and EXPOSURE the intended purpose of eyes and a nose.

Put the collar away.