Post by: blacktailcrzy on June 26, 2011, 07:13:10 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 07:18:56 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on June 26, 2011, 07:20:11 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 07:22:05 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on June 26, 2011, 07:25:02 PM
Post by: oldleclercrd on June 26, 2011, 07:26:01 PM
Post by: jstone on June 26, 2011, 07:26:51 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 07:27:05 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 07:28:04 PM
That 90 yard guy is smoking something...
Don't start! that's what happens everytime and this will get nuked :chuckle:
Post by: brew on June 26, 2011, 07:46:33 PM
Post by: Alan K on June 26, 2011, 07:53:39 PM
Post by: jstone on June 26, 2011, 08:16:47 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 26, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on June 26, 2011, 08:35:24 PM
Post by: kglacken on June 26, 2011, 09:01:57 PM
I am assuming this is with a bow. I voted 60 yards. That is in perfect weather conditions. Otherwise it would be a stretch.:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: bobcat on June 26, 2011, 09:06:15 PM
I am assuming this is with a bow.
We're in the Bow Hunting forum, so that is a pretty good assumption.
I voted for 40 yards. And actually if I had to pick a max range I'm comfortable shooting a deer right now, it would be 30 yards. But I am just taking up archery again after not shooting a bow for 10 years. However I am sure that by the end of summer I'll be confident out to 40 yards.
Post by: shedcrazy on June 26, 2011, 09:07:06 PM
Post by: Instinct on June 26, 2011, 09:20:08 PM
Post by: Kain on June 26, 2011, 09:48:34 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 26, 2011, 09:57:20 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 10:00:09 PM
I said 90, but the weapon was not specified. With a bow, for me, would be 20 yards. I tried last year, my first year and missed... :(
:chuckle: Its in the bow hunting area people :chuckle: So it must be for a bow :chuckle:
Post by: hogsniper on June 26, 2011, 10:02:00 PM
Post by: True Sportsman on June 26, 2011, 10:04:18 PM
Post by: True Sportsman on June 26, 2011, 10:06:18 PM
Ah hell if you can see em you can shoot em! let em fly! Ive been watching bowhunter tv lots lately, I got all the tricks!
That's another great point. If and when I get a bow, if I see an animal, the arrows are flying!
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 26, 2011, 10:08:41 PM
I said 90, but the weapon was not specified. With a bow, for me, would be 20 yards. I tried last year, my first year and missed... :(
:chuckle: Its in the bow hunting area people :chuckle: So it must be for a bow :chuckle:
So, if you shoot a fish with your bow, is it in the fishing section then ? Smart arse ain't I....
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 26, 2011, 10:12:46 PM
Post by: Wazukie on June 26, 2011, 10:21:46 PM
Post by: Dan-o on June 26, 2011, 10:24:49 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2011, 06:16:07 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 27, 2011, 06:46:34 AM
I can knock a tick of a squirrel's butt at 60 yards - if that squirrel doesn't move at all from the time I release the arrow until it reaches my target. Shooting proficiency is only one factor in this decision. The other is what happens after you release.Real good Pianoman :o best I can come up with is my pop and me pinning nightcrawlers up on the target and cutting them in half at 50 & 60 ....plus back then we shot fingers which took me 25 yrs to go to a release but back in the day I was a deadly finger shooter but at longer distances I like a release
Post by: rebal69972 on June 27, 2011, 07:09:57 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 27, 2011, 07:16:55 AM
No it's in the bowfishing area :sas:
I ain't bright are I.
Post by: Tony on June 27, 2011, 07:25:10 AM
Post by: mattfromtenino on June 27, 2011, 12:35:22 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 27, 2011, 01:13:58 PM
Post by: Machias on June 27, 2011, 02:27:21 PM
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Post by: quadrafire on June 27, 2011, 02:31:07 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.:yeah:
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Post by: Caseyd on June 27, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
130 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Never even shot a dam bow
:chuckle: Yeah at first before i noticed this was in the bow forum I was like WTF
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2011, 02:36:39 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Great post! :yeah:
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on June 27, 2011, 02:41:01 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on June 27, 2011, 02:45:09 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.:yeah:
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
X2!!!
I must be in a minority as my longest ethical shot at a deer is 40 yards. Way back in my younger days, I killed both deer and elk at much longer ranges, but conditions were perfect. Looking back...no I don't think they were ethical shots! I was very very lucky I never wounded and lost an animal.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 27, 2011, 02:46:01 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.Tell me about it ... like I said I have pulled a couple longer shots but I do not highly recommend it to anyone .... I like getting as close as I possibly can ... like 20 ft ... :chuckle:
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Post by: jdmecomber on June 27, 2011, 02:52:20 PM
Post by: jgrimes on June 27, 2011, 02:54:15 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
:yeah:
I marked 40 yds. Certain short yardage shots require just as much concentration and attention as those max ethical range shots; especially from a tree stand.
Post by: Mongo Hunter on June 27, 2011, 03:03:29 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 27, 2011, 03:11:18 PM
I said 40, I have shot my 2x2 foot target at 50 yards and was hitting 6" groups, HOWEVER that was perfect conditions with no wind at the time and it was during a shooting session and I had practice shots. This is my first year bow hunting and I know conditions are never perfect and 40 is about my max limit and I may not even do it then.:tup:
Post by: woodswalker on June 27, 2011, 03:15:16 PM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
:yeah:
Seen too many stuck ones that got away and died later....or NOT...
Post by: jdmecomber on June 27, 2011, 10:36:50 PM
Post by: MLBowhunting on June 28, 2011, 02:18:19 AM
Post by: RadSav on June 28, 2011, 03:52:30 AM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
I didn't know there were so many animals found dead after archery season. Was there a memo I missed? If there is might someone conclude that since Muzzy and rifle seasons follow archery perhaps there are more people in the woods after archery season? When I find dead elk after muzzy or rifle season is there a hot line for me to report these things so we can get the ratio right? I just want to be properly informed!
Hoggwash!!!!! Every user group has those who take a risk at beyond their abilities on that given day. It IS NOT unique to archery. It's unique to human beings. Period! :bash:
Every study done over the past 30 years that utilized "Known Facts" rather than conjecture and supposition have come to the same conclusion in regards to lethal wound rates of different big game weapons. Vehicles always came in first - Damn those people who drive beyond their control!
Further more it is clearly shown that the rate of slow death is reduced when tissue around the wound channel is clean and free of massive cell damage. As would be the case with the wound channel of an arrow.
Take things a little further and research medical studies regarding stabbings and gun shots. Unless a victim has been shot in the head or directly in the heart gun shot victims have a higher chance of short term survival than do stabbing victims. Yet, long term survival of those who actually make it to the emergency room is greater amongst stabbing victims.
Ask any long term guide how many hunters can shoot beyond 300 yards with a rifle when an animal is the target. I think the vast majority of them will be like me and say, "Damn Few!" Same thing with Muzzy hunters beyond 100 yards without the use of a scope. Yet, listen to all the success stories here on HW about long distance shots with these weapons. Believe me there are a lot more "One that got away" stories out there than these success stories.
We're all human! We all get excited! And we all have times when we think we are better than we are. Especially under the stress and excitement of having an animal in our sights. That's not a bowhunting exclusive. That's an adrenaline charged hunting exclusive. Fortunately for the majority of us that is our drug of choice.
Post by: stw on June 28, 2011, 04:26:36 AM
Post by: RadSav on June 28, 2011, 04:48:42 AM
I shoot out to 80 yrds all year. I hold about 2 to 4 inch group out to 80 some time smaller u put an elk broad side ill put right through the lungs right on the crease.
If he doesn't move!
Post by: rasbo on June 28, 2011, 05:00:20 AM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.roger that Fred!!!!heck thats the way I have always felt about it.I love to get as close to the critters as possible.60 yrds is a long way,shat can happen,wisp of air,any movement at all can create a huge bad stick margin..those of you that say you can put all your arrows in a playing card at that distance,come to the bbq this year,I have the room....
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Post by: RadSav on June 28, 2011, 05:36:10 AM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
I do agree with your second point. Well said!
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 28, 2011, 06:40:29 AM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.roger that Fred!!!!heck thats the way I have always felt about it.I love to get as close to the critters as possible.60 yrds is a long way,shat can happen,wisp of air,any movement at all can create a huge bad stick margin..those of you that say you can put all your arrows in a playing card at that distance,come to the bbq this year,I have the room....
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Besides, playing cards aren't going to move. They can't take two steps forward between the time you release and when the arrow hits. They don't get your adrenaline going.
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 28, 2011, 07:01:37 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 28, 2011, 07:12:46 AM
I've been elk hunting one time during modern gun season at it was a zoo. I believe just as many elk are hit with bullets and not even looked for. I witnessed guys shooting free hand at elk that where 300 + yards and moving.
Yes, there are idiots shooting all types of weapons and seasons. But, archery has inherent problems that the other weapons don't. Proper form, ambient conditions, the physical shape of the shooter and ability to hold the draw, a small branch visible at 30 yards but not at 60, and the time it takes a projectile to arrive at it's destination. Machias made the most excellent point of archery never being about how far you can shoot, rather how close you can get to the critter.
Post by: stw on June 28, 2011, 07:18:49 AM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on June 28, 2011, 08:05:44 AM
I shoot out to 80 yrds all year. I hold about 2 to 4 inch group out to 80 some time smaller u put an elk broad side ill put right through the lungs right on the crease.
Yep, another superstar... would you meet me at the range and teach me to shoot like you?
Post by: quadrafire on June 28, 2011, 08:11:43 AM
I'll bet it would make a pretty good bell curve :chuckle:
Post by: Mongo Hunter on June 28, 2011, 08:21:25 AM
This may be Stirring to Pot a little, but I would be curious to see the age breakdown of the folks that are super confident with their abilities-- oh say past 50 yrds.
I'll bet it would make a pretty good bell curve :chuckle:
Just turned 25 and I said 40 yards, but thats the most I would be willing to push it.
Post by: bobcat on June 28, 2011, 08:28:41 AM
By the way, the topic here is how far would you shoot at a deer, not elk. (if that makes a difference- it doesn't for me)
Post by: stw on June 28, 2011, 08:35:42 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 28, 2011, 08:47:17 AM
Is it bad to be confident in your shooting.o ya im no superstar unless shooting a bull every year sense 05 a superstar then i gess i I'm. My age is 36 and i shoot all year
If you shoot 2-4in groups every time at 80 yards you should be cleaning house at field archery competitions... do you compete?
Post by: PolarBear on June 28, 2011, 08:50:16 AM
Post by: Alan K on June 28, 2011, 08:54:17 AM
Don't get me wrong, getting close is amazing, but you can do that with any weapon. Just get in the timber. It's not my purpose for using the equipment though.
Like someone said it might be because I'm younger, at 22 years old. My goal is to be effective at taking animals as cleanly as possible, be it with a rifle or a bow. If I can drain an orange at 30 yards 95% of the time, and a cantaloupe at 50 yards 95% of the time, I'm going to be taking those shots on game given the opportunity. I'm not going to risk spooking the animal off by trying to get 5 yards closer if I can still get meat in the freezer and a nice rack to boot from a little farther out.
:dunno:
Post by: h2ofowlr on June 28, 2011, 08:59:07 AM
Then again I have all brand new gear. Gear does make a big difference along with the ability to shoot calmly and well. Would I take a longer shot with an older bow, probably not. I have about 8" inches of drop from 30 to 60 yards. I defiantly try to go for the close shots under 20 yards as it's another way to challenge myself.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on June 28, 2011, 09:01:40 AM
Is it bad to be confident in your shooting.o ya im no superstar unless shooting a bull every year sense 05 a superstar then i gess i I'm. My age is 36 and i shoot all year
If you shoot 2-4in groups every time at 80 yards you should be cleaning house at field archery competitions... do you compete?
My thoughts exactly... now not to get this thread nuked.... an animal at 80 yards has almost a complete second to move from arrow release to impact, and that is with a fast bow shooting a hunting weight arrow. That is quite a bit... Its all about what your ethical shot would be. Like I stated before, I shoot competition year around, I am at the range daily shooting from 4 yards to 100... but my ethical shot is 30 yards. Just my opinion.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 28, 2011, 09:05:34 AM
Post by: stormin85 on June 28, 2011, 09:06:27 AM
like was stated, bowhunting is about getting as close as possible to the game your hunting, can and do other people shoot deer at long distances with a bow? yup, is it right? thats up to them, but target shooting and hunting are two different things. Sure you are still shooting a bow and target shoting makes you more consistent and more accurate but hunting still involves a live animal that can literally do anything at anytime, make any movement and change position, if you feel comfortable shooting at something that can and will do this, thats fine but i don't think i can live with knowing there is an animal that i have wounded and is suffering because i took a shot that is questionable, again not saying anyones choice is, thats still your choice, but for me i won't. :twocents:
Post by: bucklucky on June 28, 2011, 09:16:45 AM
50 is my limit but did take a 54 yard shot on a spike bull in 09 (I thougth the wife said 51 :o ) . Didnt know what hit him, center punched the heart. Good thing I was aiming to center punch the lungs and the bow is flat shooting.
Post by: jackelope on June 28, 2011, 09:25:12 AM
Post by: stormin85 on June 28, 2011, 09:26:00 AM
however he shoots year round at competitions and from the few episodes i have seen he is a pretty solid shooter. So later in the season he is in a stand weather is ideal and a nice buck comes in somewhat to his side and walks a little further than he anticipated, the shot ends up being 63 yards, through about a foot and half gap of trees, while the deer is on the move, guy makes a perfect heart shot and the deer barely makes it twenty yards.
sure this shows that longer distance shots can and will be made, i am not saying i would never shoot this far as i might, but even he said that is the longest shot he has and probably ever will take however it also shows with shorter shots things can still go wrong, just as much with longer distances, it all comes down to you and your personal ability and if everything for you is right, no matter how close or far the question of ethics will always come into play.
BTW i'm not sure which side of the argument this is for. more or less just food for thought, or possibly fueling this fire lol :dunno:
Post by: sneakyjake on June 28, 2011, 09:33:47 AM
Your effective shooting range doesn't include perfect conditions. You won't know the yardage exactly. You won't know what the animal is going to do. When I went through the bowhunters ed I would have bet a thousand bucks that I could hit the 4 inch circle at 40 yards everytime. 35 yards can look like 40 yards in the woods, add a little incline, maybe you don't always hit within a 1/2 in of the bulls eye. My arrow exploded and I learned a good lesson. I would love to take that bet with a few of the hunters and their believed effective range. Just think about it. We are held to a higher standard.
Maybe I am wrong, But I feel like we are going to have to fight for our right to use archery equipment in this state forever.
Post by: Machias on June 28, 2011, 09:34:03 AM
To be completely honest, archery hunting was never about getting as close as possible. It was about longer and in my opinion better hunting dates.
Don't get me wrong, getting close is amazing, but you can do that with any weapon. Just get in the timber. It's not my purpose for using the equipment though.
Like someone said it might be because I'm younger, at 22 years old. My goal is to be effective at taking animals as cleanly as possible, be it with a rifle or a bow. If I can drain an orange at 30 yards 95% of the time, and a cantaloupe at 50 yards 95% of the time, I'm going to be taking those shots on game given the opportunity. I'm not going to risk spooking the animal off by trying to get 5 yards closer if I can still get meat in the freezer and a nice rack to boot from a little farther out.
:dunno:
22 years old, :chuckle: Ah the wisdom.
Here's the difference, yes longer season have always been a desired goal, but archery IS a close range activity. Your mind set is what is wrong with today's archers, IMHO. The, I'm not going to risk spooking the animal to try and get 5 yards closer is the wrong mindset. It should be, I'm not going to worry about spooking this animal as I try to get closer because the season is longer and I will have other chances. I'm glad you can hit cantaloupe 95% of the time, but talk to me when those cantaloupe can suddenly and without warning take a step or two right after you release. No big deal if you gut shoot a cataloupe, not the same with a deer.
I used to get ticked off at rifle hunters and muzzle loaders who were always talking about finding wounded or dead animals after archery seasons. I believed, and to a much lesseer extent now, they were exaggerating their claims. I spend alot of time scouting and in the woods after archery season and have only found a couple of animals in 35 years that had died as a result of bad shots from archers. When I see the long range shooting some of you are doing and advocating, I know I've been wrong. You guys are wounding alot of animals and your hurting the image of bowhunting. If you thump your chest and say you routinely take 50, 60, 70, 80+ yard shots and have never wounded an animal, if your being honest, it's not because your good, it's because you've been lucky.
Post by: jgrimes on June 28, 2011, 09:34:30 AM
This may be Stirring to Pot a little, but I would be curious to see the age breakdown of the folks that are super confident with their abilities-- oh say past 50 yrds.
I'll bet it would make a pretty good bell curve :chuckle:
25 yrs old and marked 40 yds.
Post by: jdmecomber on June 28, 2011, 09:37:46 AM
Post by: bucklucky on June 28, 2011, 09:45:38 AM
Post by: Alan K on June 28, 2011, 10:11:46 AM
To be completely honest, archery hunting was never about getting as close as possible. It was about longer and in my opinion better hunting dates.
Don't get me wrong, getting close is amazing, but you can do that with any weapon. Just get in the timber. It's not my purpose for using the equipment though.
Like someone said it might be because I'm younger, at 22 years old. My goal is to be effective at taking animals as cleanly as possible, be it with a rifle or a bow. If I can drain an orange at 30 yards 95% of the time, and a cantaloupe at 50 yards 95% of the time, I'm going to be taking those shots on game given the opportunity. I'm not going to risk spooking the animal off by trying to get 5 yards closer if I can still get meat in the freezer and a nice rack to boot from a little farther out.
:dunno:
22 years old, :chuckle: Ah the wisdom.
Here's the difference, yes longer season have always been a desired goal, but archery IS a close range activity. Your mind set is what is wrong with today's archers, IMHO. The, I'm not going to risk spooking the animal to try and get 5 yards closer is the wrong mindset. It should be, I'm not going to worry about spooking this animal as I try to get closer because the season is longer and I will have other chances. I'm glad you can hit cantaloupe 95% of the time, but talk to me when those cantaloupe can suddenly and without warning take a step or two right after you release. No big deal if you gut shoot a cataloupe, not the same with a deer.
The way I see it, at 50 yards, a deer has .58 seconds to react from the time I release my arrow to the time it makes contact (150 feet / 260 fps arrow speed). I'm not talking about taking those shots when an animal has me completely pinned and is showing signs of bolting, I'm talking about say a buck standing there feeding. We've all spent hours watching deer feed, and they don't move more than a half step in half a second. Even if the buck were at a perfectly broadside angle, it would move my POI maybe 6 inches, which from the crease still catches the lungs.
There are a multitude of things that can happen. Heck in the early season you could have a horse fly whack you in the face as you release, or you could get shaky getting swarmed by mosquitos holding your bead on a bull waiting for him to take one more step into an opening. There is no rule of thumb in nature, every situation is different. Someone could very easily botch a 10 yard shot in a situation like I mentioned above just as easily as a 50 yard shot.
To each their own on this topic I suppose.
Post by: stw on June 28, 2011, 10:13:51 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 28, 2011, 10:22:04 AM
:twocents:
I'm not going to lock it now because maybe I'm wrong, but I bet it won't turn around.
Post by: jackelope on June 28, 2011, 10:22:51 AM
I think at least half of the peaple that are bow hunters have lost one or more animals its not good. Hay im not a dick i lost one i shot it about ten feet from me. Me and my budy look 3 days 12hrs a day. all i have said 50 to 80 can be dun. And no i don't shoot at them at 80 everytime. But i will at 50Those are not good odds.
I betcha more than half of your half that lose the animals are shooting too far.
Post by: OlympicElkJunkie on June 28, 2011, 10:26:14 AM
My range is simply based on how much time I have put in to tune my bow for broadheads, to tune my body for shooting in hunting situations, and to tune my eyes for framing the shot and I usually haven't determined how far out that is until just before the bell rings in September. If the season started tomorrow I would say 40 yards, but that could go up or down by then.
Post by: quadrafire on June 28, 2011, 10:30:03 AM
This thread is going to get locked at some point. I see nothing good coming out of it. In my opinion, any time a thread like this is started on here, there's no way anything positive will come of it. It's been proven time and time again.Kinda like Politics--huh--- You are never gonna change someones mind, and yours won't be either. So you are right, nothing good comes out of this but a good entertaining argument. I would leave it open for now---cause work is kinda slow today ;)
:twocents:
I'm not going to lock it now because maybe I'm wrong, but I bet it won't turn around.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 28, 2011, 10:33:32 AM
Post by: Alan K on June 28, 2011, 10:35:10 AM
I really don't think it'd be ethical to shoot any range beyond maybe 30 tops without having a rangefinder for verification. :twocents:
Oh, and I range everything before I shoot no matter the situation unless they're 20ish and in.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 28, 2011, 10:41:45 AM
This thread is going to get locked at some point. I see nothing good coming out of it. In my opinion, any time a thread like this is started on here, there's no way anything positive will come of it. It's been proven time and time again.
:twocents:
I'm not going to lock it now because maybe I'm wrong, but I bet it won't turn around.
I think it's good to have debate. There's no name-calling and the perspectives of different people might give others something to think about.
Post by: bobcat on June 28, 2011, 10:44:14 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on June 28, 2011, 10:45:22 AM
Post by: sebek556 on June 28, 2011, 10:48:52 AM
Post by: quadrafire on June 28, 2011, 10:51:02 AM
I said 30 yds, but that is based off of my equipment. I use recurve, and 30 is long. My preferred is 10-15. With all the advances in bows, someone else may have equipment that can get out there a bit---and still be ethical. There are many reasons why people use a bow....mine: I have a multiseason tag and will use use that friggin bow because it adds a month and a half to my season. Some people like shooting long distances. I say if they have the right equipment to still kill cleanly and consistently, why not? One problem I see, is people trying to lump all equipment together, and assume that some 10 yr old compound can do the things the space age new releases are doing. To me, that is kind of similar to thinking that just because a .30-378 can kill deer at 500 yds...then a .30-30 must be able to too.That is a good post.
Post by: sneakyjake on June 28, 2011, 11:00:07 AM
Post by: Machias on June 28, 2011, 11:02:03 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 28, 2011, 11:04:35 AM
Yeah, maybe nothing positive will come out of this thread, but I don't see anything negative either. I think it's a fun discussion to have every once in a while.
It is an interesting experiment.
Post by: OlympicElkJunkie on June 28, 2011, 11:16:55 AM
Post by: bucklucky on June 28, 2011, 11:21:33 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 28, 2011, 11:23:03 AM
Great post Machias :tup:
He must be older than dirt because he sure is a smart man with a lot of valuable experience for all. You're right, ElkJunkie, great post. :tup:
Post by: rebal69972 on June 28, 2011, 03:18:02 PM
Post by: Matt on June 28, 2011, 03:28:01 PM
I didn't vote because every situation is different. I have no max distance. I do try to get as close as possible. If the animal walks oh well.
Post by: RadSav on June 28, 2011, 04:23:00 PM
My buddy shot his bull last year at 105 yards at a 20 degree up hill. He is one of the top archers in the country and I told him that was a crazy shot to take. He agreed but he had the confidence in his ability and his equipment. So it can be done. The biggest thing is that we do owe it to the animal to keep it real.
I didn't vote because every situation is different. I have no max distance. I do try to get as close as possible. If the animal walks oh well.
Your buddy needs to learn the 40 yard rule of telling stories. Every animal I have ever shot with a bow is "around 40 yards". Some were closer, some were further and even some much further, but I try to always tell my story as around 40 yards. It makes others much more comfortable and is better for the sport.
Post by: rtspring on June 28, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
Not saying it can't be done but in my book "IT SHOULD NEVER BE DONE"
Post by: billythekidrock on June 28, 2011, 04:30:47 PM
My buddy shot his bull last year at 105 yards at a 20 degree up hill. He is one of the top archers in the country and I told him that was a crazy shot to take. He agreed but he had the confidence in his ability and his equipment. So it can be done. The biggest thing is that we do owe it to the animal to keep it real.
I could care less if he is "one of the top archers"... that it too far. One step and that bull is hit in the guts, two steps and it's hit in the ham.
Not ethical in my book.
Post by: quadrafire on June 28, 2011, 04:35:40 PM
This is just getting crazy
Post by: Whitenuckles on June 28, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
Post by: Machias on June 28, 2011, 05:55:59 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on June 28, 2011, 08:24:03 PM
Post by: ribka on June 28, 2011, 08:41:15 PM
This will be the last thing I post on this topic. Guys for just a second stand back and think about what your saying. You guys that are advocating these long range shots are making the case for the rifle hunters and the muzzle loaders when they ask "Why do archers need longer seasons?" "Why do they need to hunt in Sept?" "Why do they need a longer late season?" "Heck if they can routinely shoot 70, 80, 90, 105 yards, then there is NO reason they should be allowed in the woods any longer then us, and they should not get to hunt during the rut." Your making the case against longer seasons. Your going against the very reasons most states extend bow seasons.
Have been saying the same Fred
I have had quite a few deer "duck" my arrow under 20 yds from a tree stand. ( In reality the deer crouch down before bounding off) 50 yds is about max otherwise or deer or elk taking a step, turning will result in less than ideal hit. Every year i find quite a few deer and elk that are gut shot or shot in the ass by the self proclaimed world class archery shooters.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on June 28, 2011, 09:01:23 PM
Post by: Battle Ready on June 28, 2011, 09:21:23 PM
The others topics include:
Which broadhead is the best
Which Bow is best
Which arrow is best....blah blah blah blah blah.
I think that people should hunt like there is a referee, but there is not, its just you and your own ethics. What do you do? do you follow your ethical belief, or does that belief sway from situation to situation. Has no one blew up a pheasant at 4ft from the barrel, or cracked one out just a bit to far? Some impulsed we all know we need to control, and it sometimes breaks the ethical boundries we face as hunters.
The ultimate truth is, people have been pushing the envelope of effective ranges sense weapons were first used. Im glad Im not throwing spears( the original close range weapon ). Bows are capable of making some amazing shots at wild distances, but just like in many of lifes pleasures, sometimes full throttle is NOT always the goal.
I try not to catogorize peiple as being right or wrong in this case. I do know what my boundaries are, and they are somewhat private. This is not because im ashamed of telling the distance, but for me, my ethical range is just that...mine. There are so many variables in all shots, all weapons, that are in and out of our control...if you hunt..you have to assume the risk of loosing an animal.
Here is a question I dont think anyone has asked. Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers? I bet this will stir the hive. Before I go further..I dont ever want to loose anything, and I try my very best to not see such things come to me.
Post by: Curly on June 28, 2011, 09:48:42 PM
Here is a question I dont think anyone has asked. Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers? I bet this will stir the hive. Before I go further..I dont ever want to loose anything, and I try my very best to not see such things come to me.
No harm if the hunter's tag gets notched and the animal gets reported on the harvest report.
(No harm that is, other than some people finding the animal wounded or dead later on with an arrow sticking out of it)............
Post by: Battle Ready on June 28, 2011, 09:51:09 PM
Here is some more:
What is the most popular bow sight sold? Answer..the 5 pin sight. Most would assume that puts there sight range out to 60 yards. I dont think people buy a 5 pin sight and ignore 3 of them. Oh, I know you only practice out that far..right?
What is the most popular rifle scope magnification? I would venture to believe its the 3-9 variable...is the 9 power for close ethical ranges or is it to make far reaching shots more attainable?
If all things are equal, how is it we all agree that shots should be close, so why do we not all hunt with a bow? or why dont all hunters hunt with a rifle at bowhunting ranges? Isnt that unpredictable step forward the same distance at 100 yards no matter what your shooting with?
I know, I know...ive stepped into the silly question side of town, but are these questions out of line? Do they not paint a picture?
Post by: BLUEBULLS on June 28, 2011, 10:05:39 PM
It varies for everybody but I don't think too highly of anybody that would shoot at a deer from over 70 yards. Anybody ever watch the full moon production videos? Those guys shoot well at long distances and then they shoot deer at long distances. They usually hit them in the neck or spine or back too far etc. Imagine how many they have to edit out that run off wounded. It seems like their average long range shot misses the mark by at least 10 inches. Pathetic.
Post by: Battle Ready on June 28, 2011, 10:11:13 PM
(No harm that is, other than some people finding the animal wounded or dead later on with an arrow sticking out of it)............
[/quote]
Im on board with that.. Tag it. As far as an arrow sticking from it I wonder again, a set of questions.
Lets think of our Native american bowhunters, we could consider them true stewarts of the land..as a majority..yes. Do you think they lost deer to shots with an arrow, or later to rifle? What if one Native found another natives lost deer with an arrow sticking out of the ponch?? Would he call out for all bowhunting to be stopped? Why do we? When did wounding game become such a taboo?
Are we only worried about what ethical ranges are because we know the threat of loosing our hunting privliges when the anti's find cruel things that happen to critters? I mean...before the anti croud got growing..did you hear hunters have this conversation? wouldnt one think its to be expected to happen? I think it would of really made Natives mad, cause that ment dinner was gone...but then again, I bet they kept hunting because they had to eat.
Still, its my ethics to have a range that is also very ethical.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 29, 2011, 06:59:29 AM
Post by: Matt on June 29, 2011, 07:51:06 AM
Has anyone watched the show long range pursuit? Those guys typically take shots well over 1000 yards(rifle of course). They have a pocket computer that calculates slant range, barometric pressure, temperature, humidity and wind. Now that's hunting. :rolleyes:
Post by: Snapshot on June 29, 2011, 07:10:35 PM
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
:yeah: ...and everything else Machias has posted on the thread. (It's like your in my head, Fred! ;) )
Post by: Sunbkpk on July 01, 2011, 10:48:33 AM
A great memory with no pang in my gut is a treasure as powerful as a trophy mount on the wall to me. If I am hunting to feed myself and family then the ciscumstances would change.
Do not proudly tell me how many arrows you shot at animals that year. Instead proudly tell me of the shot you made or passed on.
I loved the "bionic" buck at a 3d shoot I once did. Steel plate of a deer silouete with the kill zone cutout. Choice of it at about 20 yards and another target at 40 yards. With the fear of missing and loosing an arrow that was common. You could hear the echo of arrow striking that steel plate all day long. Guys who could make that shot every day would blow it when thinking of loosing an arrow and having to buy another. Not sure how much they do that. Should have that at every 3D shoot and range.
Post by: Gringo31 on July 01, 2011, 11:39:30 AM
Quote
Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers?
My vote for the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time. :mor:
Post by: jstone on July 01, 2011, 11:47:16 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 01, 2011, 11:57:07 AM
You're quite missing the point. Just because we can shoot an arrow accurately up to 80 or 100 yards at a stationary target does not mean we should ever take that shot at a living, breathing animal. And as far as wounding an animal being taboo is concerned, wounding and losing an animal has always been the worst possible outcome to a hunting shot. Yes, it happens, and sometimes for reasons beyond our control. But it should be the goal of every ethical hunter to make sure that it doesn't happen because of an irresponsible shot taken. As has been said before, with regards to an animal that we intend to kill, whether for food and/or trophy, our respect for that living animal should be our top priority and our ethical actions would fall in line behind that.
Post by: yakimarcher on July 01, 2011, 12:30:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 01, 2011, 04:09:14 PM
Quote
the furthest shot you should take is 10 yards to you than you can group all your arrows inside a paper plate.
Huh? :dunno:
Would you mind typing that again, a little slower? I don't get what you're trying to say.
Post by: h20hunter on July 01, 2011, 04:11:57 PM
Post by: huntnnw on July 01, 2011, 04:34:09 PM
Post by: tlbradford on July 01, 2011, 04:56:23 PM
Quotethe furthest shot you should take is 10 yards to you than you can group all your arrows inside a paper plate.
Huh? :dunno:
Would you mind typing that again, a little slower? I don't get what you're trying to say.
He's saying subtract ten yards from the distance in which you keep all arrows on a paper plate during practice.
Post by: seth30 on July 01, 2011, 04:58:39 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 01, 2011, 05:03:59 PM
Quote
He's saying subtract ten yards from the distance in which you keep all arrows on a paper plate during practice.
OK, thanks, it makes sense now.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on July 01, 2011, 07:43:56 PM
My :twocents:... Bowhunting is about alot more than just shooting, but anyone that tells me its not about shooting is almost as illiterate. IMO, Many guys hunting with archery eqipment are NOT bowhunters, in other words if given the alternative for a different weapon choice in the same season they would take it?
As an avid bowhunter my love is getting animals close, trailing game, calling game, playing the wind, reading animals body language, being stealthy, spot and stalk and basically being a woodsman. I also love archery and shoot alot. Im not perfect in all these skills but like to think its constantly a learning experience thats partly why its so much fun. To me a profficeint and effective bowhunter must practice ALL of the above ( I may have left some out as well, so let me know), I know alot of great rifle hunters that are good woodsman, trackers, and stalkers. But would be the first to tell you they do not have the time to be effective bowhunters. To shoot and practice enough.
I also know guys that can punch bullseyes all day long at 80+ and are not effective bowhunters either. The haven't mastered the basic woodsmanship required to get close consistently.
What im saying is focusing on furthest ethical distance is just that. Trying to get a read on someones bowhunting prowess based on their shot distance is foolish. Im as skeptical as the next guy about 90 yard shots, but then again I have had my ethics called into question during a 3d shoot, by a traditional guy who didnt hit the 8 ring in 10 targets in a row! And he informed me that he was hunting with that rig!
Its owed to the animal to be as profficient as possible at woodsmanship and shooting alike, the fact I may be comfortable shooting out to a certain distance doesnt mean I have to take that shot. We never do. I can CHOOSE to get closer.
Archery will always be a close distance game regardless of the equipment. I call it the rule of tens. Multiply any given archery shot distance, with the average time spent to make that shot CONSITENTLY and then give me a scoped rifle and you could shoot that shot ten times as far. In other words, 20 yard shots are fairly ez with modern equipment even difficult shot angles, kneeling etc... not alot of practice needed to maintain profficiency. Now take a 200 yard shot with a rifle, same basic principle. 300 yards vs 30 yards, 40 yards vs 400,. Given that model it becomes fairly clear that after about 40 + yards u better be dedicating some serious practice time, to not only punching paper, but position shooting, and reading wind and animal body language as well as using a RF.
Post by: Machias on July 01, 2011, 08:05:07 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on July 04, 2011, 09:24:34 AM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 04, 2011, 10:09:27 AM
Post by: bentley30-06 on July 04, 2011, 02:17:57 PM
Post by: akirkland on July 05, 2011, 10:07:57 AM
Post by: bucklucky on July 05, 2011, 11:00:14 AM
Post by: PolarBear on July 05, 2011, 12:31:31 PM
Post by: jechicdr on July 05, 2011, 08:59:26 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 08, 2011, 08:52:25 PM
Take the number of points on your target, multiply by 5, divide by your heart rate multiply by 80, add the number of years you have been hunting, then multiply by the number of target arrows shot in a year beyond 50 yards divided by 1000, multiply by the number of arrows on a paper plate at 70 yards out of 100 shots divided by 100. If the result is over 100, then if you think you can make the shot, you will make the shot. If the result is under 50, take up rifle hunting. Between 50 and 100 then in all probability, you will make the shot.HUH... That works ... :chuckle:
Post by: jechicdr on July 08, 2011, 09:44:40 PM
Post by: GreatWhiteHunter on July 09, 2011, 09:18:25 AM
Take the number of points on your target, multiply by 5, divide by your heart rate multiply by 80, add the number of years you have been hunting, then multiply by the number of target arrows shot in a year beyond 50 yards divided by 1000, multiply by the number of arrows on a paper plate at 70 yards out of 100 shots divided by 100. If the result is over 100, then if you think you can make the shot, you will make the shot. If the result is under 50, take up rifle hunting. Between 50 and 100 then in all probability, you will make the shot.
lmao
A friend killed a cow at 90 last year, but he practices out to a 100, and is a damn good shot. Me 60-70 MAX.
Post by: Recurve-Elk on July 10, 2011, 11:18:08 AM
Am I ashamed of my rather week yardage? No, I am proud! :IBCOOL:
Post by: stickslinger on July 15, 2011, 08:35:27 AM
Post by: bowhunter851 on August 08, 2011, 11:05:25 AM
It's no wonder there are so many wounded animals found after archery season.:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: exectly its hunting not target practice
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
:dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 08, 2011, 11:23:31 AM
Take the number of points on your target, multiply by 5, divide by your heart rate multiply by 80, add the number of years you have been hunting, then multiply by the number of target arrows shot in a year beyond 50 yards divided by 1000, multiply by the number of arrows on a paper plate at 70 yards out of 100 shots divided by 100. If the result is over 100, then if you think you can make the shot, you will make the shot. If the result is under 50, take up rifle hunting. Between 50 and 100 then in all probability, you will make the shot.
lmao
A friend killed a cow at 90 last year, but he practices out to a 100, and is a damn good shot. Me 60-70 MAX.
But it's not about how good you are shooting at a stationary target. In the time it takes even the fastest arrow to go 60+ yards downrange, and animal can move almost it's whole body length. You can be the best bow shot in the world with the most perfectly executed shot and still miss or gut shoot an animal because it moves after you shoot. This is not even to mention that you can't see fine items like tiny branches at that distance.
Post by: Johnb317 on August 08, 2011, 03:22:02 PM
We aren't subsistance hunting.... don't even want to calculate the price/pound.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on August 08, 2011, 03:29:06 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: micahash1 on August 08, 2011, 05:09:25 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on August 08, 2011, 05:16:28 PM
I am just shy of 30 and have been bow hunting for almost a decade. I by no means am an expert or an ace but living where I do on the Eastern slopes of the Cascades in the Columbia Gorge you are not going to sneak up on a blacktail to 30yrds in the grass lands. If you can you are a much better man than I, and I am not a big guy, 5'7" and a buck fifty. With that being said I regularly practice to 110yrds, I practice outdoors in the wind just about every day in the summer with as real life scenarios as I can, between trees, sitting, kneeling, uphill, downhill, you get the jist. I feel comfortable in the field shooting a deer to 60yrds in ideal conditions because of this. I know a lot of you would critisize this but I don't hunt the same type of land that most of you hunt where you have plenty of cover. All of my deer have come from 30-60yrds and everyone has been double lung or heart shot and have gone no more that 100yrds. I know I may be just lucky but I try to take most everything into account and have passed up many shots because they just didn't feel right. This does not mean that some time in the future I won't have something go wrong because honostly the odds are always stacked against us, there are a million things that could affect a shot, and I hope to never have to experience that.I hunt mostly big timber in western wa and I agree about the statement you made untill last deer season all my shots have been between 40 and 60 yards. Last season I killed my buck at 20 yards and my elk at 64 yards. the question isn't how far you can shoot most people can shoot 80 and 100 yards but that does not mean its an ethical shot.
Post by: brianb231 on August 08, 2011, 06:29:07 PM
Just my 2 :twocents:
Post by: et1702 on August 10, 2011, 02:12:55 PM
Post by: C-Money on August 10, 2011, 02:50:51 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 10, 2011, 06:16:34 PM
My own experience in archery tells me most guys exagerate their ability. It is very obvious if you have ever competed. And who the hell shoots paper plates ???????
Right off the bat....I throw in with Fred and Dale.....they know as well as I know.....
Post by: firedog on August 10, 2011, 08:58:21 PM
Post by: Archeryoutfitters on August 10, 2011, 09:36:14 PM
A friendly reminder for guys to keep it civil. This exact topic has resulted in alot of insults and bad feelings in the past. Keep it nice.the way i see it is that you or me or any one is only 1/2 as good in a hunting situation as on flat ground shooting at a target with out all the variables. so you probably should base it on that, if you can hit a soft ball all the time at 80. in the woods 40 is prob. a safe bet.