furthest ethical shot

[Wea300mag]

This topic, along with wolves and natives, really stirs up conversation.

[ribka]

This will be the last thing I post on this topic.  Guys for just a second stand back and think about what your saying.  You guys that are advocating these long range shots are making the case for the rifle hunters and the muzzle loaders when they ask "Why do archers need longer seasons?"  "Why do they need to hunt in Sept?"  "Why do they need a longer late season?"  "Heck if they can routinely shoot 70, 80, 90, 105 yards, then there is NO reason they should be allowed in the woods any longer then us, and they should not get to hunt during the rut."  Your making the case against longer seasons.  Your going against the very reasons most states extend bow seasons.

Have been saying the same Fred

I have had quite a few deer "duck" my arrow under 20 yds from a tree stand. ( In reality the deer crouch down before bounding off) 50 yds is about max otherwise or deer or elk taking a step, turning will result in less than ideal hit. Every year i find quite a few deer and elk that are gut shot or shot in the ass by the self proclaimed world class archery shooters.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Hell I have never shot one outside of 10 yards, guess Iam just quite that way.  Just plain stealthy!

[Battle Ready]

I just love these posts. There are some post that have been camp fire rages for years and years...hell I bet cave men brawled over this same topic.

The others topics include:
Which broadhead is the best
Which Bow is best
Which arrow is best....blah blah blah blah blah.

I think that people should hunt like there is a referee, but there is not, its just you and your own ethics. What do you do? do you follow your ethical belief, or does that belief sway from situation to situation. Has no one blew up a pheasant at 4ft from the barrel, or cracked one out just a bit to far? Some impulsed we all know we need to control, and it sometimes breaks the ethical boundries we face as hunters.

The ultimate truth is, people have been pushing the envelope of effective ranges sense weapons were first used. Im glad Im not throwing spears( the original close range weapon ). Bows are capable of making some amazing shots at wild distances, but just like in many of lifes pleasures, sometimes full throttle is NOT always the goal.

I try not to catogorize peiple as being right or wrong in this case. I do know what my boundaries are, and they are somewhat private. This is not because im ashamed of telling the distance, but for me, my ethical range is just that...mine. There are so many variables in all shots, all weapons, that are in and out of our control...if you hunt..you have to assume the risk of loosing an animal.


Here is a question I dont think anyone has asked. Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers? I bet this will stir the hive. Before I go further..I dont ever want to loose anything, and I try my very best to not see such things come to me.

[Curly]

Here is a question I dont think anyone has asked. Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers? I bet this will stir the hive. Before I go further..I dont ever want to loose anything, and I try my very best to not see such things come to me.

No harm if the hunter's tag gets notched and the animal gets reported on the harvest report.

(No harm that is, other than some people finding the animal wounded or dead later on with an arrow sticking out of it)............

[Battle Ready]

Oh geez..I cant let this one go..lol

Here is some more:
What is the most popular bow sight sold? Answer..the 5 pin sight. Most would assume that puts there sight range out to 60 yards. I dont think people buy a 5 pin sight and ignore 3 of them. Oh, I know you only practice out that far..right?

What is the most popular rifle scope magnification? I would venture to believe its the 3-9 variable...is the 9 power for close ethical ranges or is it to make far reaching shots more attainable?

If all things are equal, how is it we all agree that shots should be close, so why do we not all hunt with a bow? or why dont all hunters hunt with a rifle at bowhunting ranges?  Isnt that unpredictable step forward the same distance at 100 yards no matter what your shooting with?

I know, I know...ive stepped into the silly question side of town, but are these questions out of line? Do they not paint a picture?

[BLUEBULLS]

I judge my ethical range based on the odds of something going wrong, unfortunately, there are more and more people basing theirs on the odds of something going right.

It varies for everybody but I don't think too highly of anybody that would shoot at a deer from over 70 yards. Anybody ever watch the full moon production videos? Those guys shoot well at long distances and then they shoot deer at long distances. They usually hit them in the neck or spine or back too far etc. Imagine how many they have to edit out that run off wounded. It seems like their average long range shot misses the mark by at least 10 inches. Pathetic.

[Battle Ready]

No harm if the hunter's tag gets notched and the animal gets reported on the harvest report.

(No harm that is, other than some people finding the animal wounded or dead later on with an arrow sticking out of it)............
[/quote]


Im on board with that.. Tag it.  As far as an arrow sticking from it I wonder again, a set of questions.

Lets think of our Native american bowhunters, we could consider them true stewarts of the land..as a majority..yes. Do you think they lost deer to shots with an arrow, or later to rifle? What if one Native found another natives lost deer with an arrow sticking out of the ponch?? Would he call out for all bowhunting to be stopped? Why do we? When did wounding game become such a taboo?

Are we only worried about what ethical ranges are because we know the threat of loosing our hunting privliges when the anti's find cruel things that happen to critters? I mean...before the anti croud got growing..did you hear hunters have this conversation?  wouldnt one think its to be expected to happen? I think it would of really made Natives mad, cause that ment dinner was gone...but then again, I bet they kept hunting because they had to eat.

Still, its my ethics to have a range that is also very ethical.

[pianoman9701]

"Ethics" which are based on the effect that your actions will have on public opinion are called "situational ethics", or values that change based on who's looking. These are not true ethics. True ethics are practiced even when someone's not looking. The decision to not take a 70 yard shot because of the high possibility that something can way more easily go wrong is a decision based on respect for an animal and respect for your own core values. An archer's (or muzzle or rifle hunter's) motivation should always be to severely limit the possibility of wounding and not finding an animal because of an unreasonable shot. This is done through diligent practice, proper conditioning, and good judgement at the moment of truth.

[Matt]

pianoman is right, I am taking a values and ethics class right now so I agree with his definitions.  You guys have some good arguements but if you take this same conversation back east those guys would react to a 60 yard shot the way you react to a 90 yard shot.  Deer jump the string at 20 yards and get gut shot all the time are you going to say all shots should be under 20.  An animal un alert at 70 is unlikely to jump the string.  If you want to be truely "ethical" then you would support a proficiency test for every weapon, and if you can't pass then you can't hunt.

Has anyone watched the show long range pursuit?  Those guys typically take shots well over 1000 yards(rifle of course).  They have a pocket computer that calculates slant range, barometric pressure, temperature, humidity and wind.  Now that's hunting. 

[Snapshot]

 
 
Bowhunting, it never was about how far can you shoot, it was always about how close can you get.
 
 

   ...and everything else Machias has posted on the thread. (It's like your in my head, Fred!  )

[Sunbkpk]

Similar to others here it depends on many factors for me. I can shoot accuratly to 80 yards and beyond with practice and known range. I would have to have the perfect setup for over 40. I had a buck looking at me when I first started hunting jump the string at 35 yards and cause a clean miss. Saw my dad get bull fever on a 6x6 at 30 yards and fling an arrow God knows where because he forgot to aim during the adrenaline rush. Experience has caused me to be more cautious. I am embarrassed by the arrows I fired my first year bowhunting as the deer were in little danger as I hit every limb in the way. I would swear the deer were laughing at me knowing I was a novice as they never offered me that many chances since. It did force me to change dramatically as a bowhunter and undertand the limitiations present in hunting situations with a bow.

A great memory with no pang in my gut is a treasure as powerful as a trophy mount on the wall to me. If I am hunting to feed myself and family then the ciscumstances would change.

Do not proudly tell me how many arrows you shot at animals that year. Instead proudly tell me of the shot you made or passed on.

I loved the "bionic" buck at a 3d shoot I once did. Steel plate of a deer silouete with the kill zone cutout. Choice of it at about 20 yards and another target at 40 yards. With the fear of missing and loosing an arrow that was common. You could hear the echo of arrow striking that steel plate all day long. Guys who could make that shot every day would blow it when thinking of loosing an arrow and having to buy another. Not sure how much they do that. Should have that at every 3D shoot and range.

[Gringo31]

Whats really the harm of not finding your wounded/lost game? is it not fully utilized by other forest dwellers?

My vote for the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time.

[jstone]

You gotta realize that you are killing something. Respect the animal. Its not good to shoot something and then not put forth the effort to retrieve it. I hate hearing people. " O don't worry the other animals will eat it" Sure they will. But have consideration for the animal. I have heared of people shoot a deer and walk up o too small and walk off..   I would like to punch them in the suck hole.. Come on really

[pianoman9701]

"What if one Native found another natives lost deer with an arrow sticking out of the ponch?? Would he call out for all bowhunting to be stopped? Why do we? When did wounding game become such a taboo?"

You're quite missing the point. Just because we can shoot an arrow accurately up to 80 or 100 yards at a stationary target does not mean we should ever take that shot at a living, breathing animal. And as far as wounding an animal being taboo is concerned, wounding and losing an animal has always been the worst possible outcome to a hunting shot. Yes, it happens, and sometimes for reasons beyond our control. But it should be the goal of every ethical hunter to make sure that it doesn't happen because of an irresponsible shot taken. As has been said before, with regards to an animal that we intend to kill, whether for food and/or trophy, our respect for that living animal should be our top priority and our ethical actions would fall in line behind that.